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View Full Version : Evidence vs. George L's for pedalboard


elambo
03-26-2007, 03:28 AM
Old topic, I know. "George L's are bright." Bright indeed, and it's not that I'm hearing high-end for the first time. I'm hearing too much and not enough bass. I've compensated with a BJF SeaBlue eq pedal (great, btw) but that's ridiculous - it shouldn't be necessary.

I just finished reading a lot of articles and posts here there and everywhere about Evidence Audio cables and they're very well liked.

So has anyone done direct comparisons between these two companies, especially where pedalboards are concerned? My guitar and amp cables are fine (Two Rock) so their not the culprit.

Chrissy
03-26-2007, 07:33 AM
I used George L's for quite a while because they are so convenient - quick to cut/wire and good in saving space. In thepast I have used George L's on the board with George L's for guitar > board and board > amp too, then I just had them on the board whilst using Evidence before and after, now I've gone the whole hog and have all Evidence.

My findings: it was absolutely worth the effort and of course the $ to replace the GLs from a tone point of view. I have even sat on the floor in Seegs' basement and swapped out the GL's in his rig while he played and not until the last one was gone were we both happy :)

If you do go for Evidence I would strongly suggest the Lyric as the best sounding cable. After that the Lyric HG. I'm not a fan of the Melody, even though it is a bit more flexible and thus easier to route. IMHO get the Lyric and layout the board so you have room for the Neutrik right angle or straight plugs.

The tone difference for me to sum it up:

GL's - harsh, upper mid-ish spike that grates on my ears, "dirty" sounding
Evidence - even across the eq spectrum. Bass has punch, mids the clearest and least dirty of any cable I've tried so far. Highs pleasant on the ear without being attenuated.

Hope that helps.
Chris

PS I hope you can get advice without this turning into a cable discussion per se. Anyone who has compared both should wade in, those who haven't will hopefully just not. :)

Now, anyone who likes what the George L's do in their rig is of course entitled to that opinion. I just wonder why sometimes GL's get disscusssed as if they were somehow a reference standard (which I'm not suggesting Evidence is - I just happen to like a cable to have as little as possible tone-forming properties as possible)...

dosmun
03-26-2007, 07:35 AM
You should be able to roll back the highs a bit on your amp to compensate. If that doesn't work then there might be more than just cables causing the problem.

Chrissy seems to have some good advice there about the differences as well.

The Everlove
03-26-2007, 07:42 AM
george L's are great pedal board cables, due to their convenience; however, I'd upgrade whenever you have the funds.

LavaMan
03-26-2007, 08:52 AM
The Evidence Melody is a great pedal board cable and I recommend it highly. As a solid conductor (single) cable it will be a good match for your Two Rock cables which are also solid conductor (dual) The Evidence Audio Lyric HG is an even better match, but it's larger outer diameter makes makes for a tighter fit on a lot of pedal boards.

Shredcow
03-26-2007, 09:09 AM
Actually.

What about reliability? I mean... tone we all can google/search/read/listen... but reliability of a cable rates high for me. G Ls seem to crackle and pop after some time of just minimal handling... and that is not good when playing at gig volumes...

whoismarykelly
03-26-2007, 09:16 AM
I would be concerned that a solid conductor cable could possibly break with a few board redesigns where the cable was beant back and forth several ways. The Evidence cable that I have is very stiff and I cant imagine that the dual conductor version would be able to handle much bending without weakening the core.

LavaMan
03-26-2007, 09:37 AM
I would be concerned that a solid conductor cable could possibly break with a few board redesigns where the cable was beant back and forth several ways. The Evidence cable that I have is very stiff and I cant imagine that the dual conductor version would be able to handle much bending without weakening the core.

Not an issue...trust me on this one...

jmp
03-26-2007, 09:46 AM
I used to use George L's exclusively for both my main cables and pedalboard connections. I used the skinny GL's for the board, and alternately used both the skinny and thicker diameter cables for my main guitar and amp connections. Last year I upgraded my pre- and post-board cables to Evidence Melody (15' and 10', respectively), but still use George L's for the board. There was a definite and noticeable tonal difference in switching the two main cables out to the Melodies-- smoother highs and bigger, yet still firm, lows. In addition, I find them to be easier to manage than either the larger diameter GL's (too stiff) or the skinny GL's (a tangled mess for anything over a few feet). I didn't try the Evidence Lyrics. I'm sure they are superior cables, but they were out of my allotted price range. I also tried the Fulltone Gold Standard cables as alternatives, but found the Melodies to have a firmer bottom end and a more extended dynamic range, overall. From a construction standpoint, I like the "vintage" look and feel of the Melody's braided jacket and the Neutrik plugs inspire confidence (this was my first exposeure to Neutriks). Now, I'm conflicted as to whether I to stick with GL's for the board or have LavaMan make me up some 6" and 8" Melodies using rt. angle plugs. I swap pedals on my board around so much that really I appreciate the versatility of GL's, yet I would prefer the reliability of having soldered Melody connectors.

SW33THAND5
03-26-2007, 09:49 AM
Actually.

What about reliability? ...but reliability of a cable rates high for me. G Ls seem to crackle and pop after some time of just minimal handling... and that is not good when playing at gig volumes...

i refuse to buy the george l's for that reason. everybody that i have jammed and gigged with has had this problem from time to time. then they have to recut and re-do the connection. i want a soldered connection. my cables have never failed. (i forget the name but they are made locally by some guy here in texas and they are sold locally at larry morgan music.)

:BEER:BEER:BEER:BEER:BEER:BEER:BEER:BEER

orogeny
03-26-2007, 10:02 AM
Possibly stepping off the main road of this highway. . . George L's are not my thang. I didn't go down the Evidence or Lava road, because I found:

DiMarzio.

Yup.

Pedal - pedal cables run about 9 or 10 dollars each. That should keep some cork sniffers happy. Excellent tone. Excellent reliability. I think I'll try Evidence and Lava someday for sh*ts and giggles, but I'm certainly NOT in NEED of anything in this department any longer.

FLYING V 83
03-26-2007, 10:19 AM
Two years now with George Ls (unplated brass ends) with 3-4 gigs a month, and about 13,475 board changes in that time. :)
No failures, no problems, no "high end" bite. LP thru a Marshall and I've never had better tone.
To each his own. My ears are all that matters in the final say.

BrentSP
03-26-2007, 10:33 AM
I've never had any problems with my GL's. I use GLs for everything, efx loop, board, to and from board.......zero problems and great tone.

LavaMan
03-26-2007, 10:36 AM
My ears are all that matters in the final say.

Absolutely 100% agree!

FLYING V 83
03-26-2007, 10:40 AM
Absolutely 100% agree!

Of course, if you had sent me a free cable back with the contest I might have changed my mind.....
;)

elambo
03-26-2007, 10:47 AM
There seems to be overwhelming support for Evidence and the sonic upgrades described so far are just what I was hoping for.

I already ordered a bunch (from Lavacable).

elambo
03-26-2007, 10:49 AM
Two years now with George Ls (unplated brass ends) with 3-4 gigs a month, and about 13,475 board changes in that time. :)
No failures, no problems, no "high end" bite. LP thru a Marshall and I've never had better tone.
To each his own. My ears are all that matters in the final say.

In your comparison, did you start with Evidence and switch to GL's?

AshlandBump
03-26-2007, 11:14 AM
To me, the advantage of George L's is that you can cut any length you want, rather than trying to make a pre-cut length work.

Do any other companies offer high-end cable that you can cut and attach your own jacks, even if they have to be soldered?

whoismarykelly
03-26-2007, 11:16 AM
Im sure you could buy raw cable from lavaman and then get plugs from someone as well.

BrentSP
03-26-2007, 11:21 AM
I've heard of numerous long time Evidence users switching over to Fulltone Gold Standards.....may want to check them out also.

FLYING V 83
03-26-2007, 11:28 AM
In your comparison, did you start with Evidence and switch to GL's?

No. I started with no-name molded cables and switched to GLs.
No need to switch again.

908SSP
03-26-2007, 12:37 PM
Sorry I don't by it. Low frequencies have no problem getting through any wires it is the highs that don't get through. You can always cut the highs back in the amp or on the guitar. You guys have talked yourself into spending oodles of money on fancy cables well that's fine. GLs sound great to me on the pedal board and run of the mill cables from the board to the guitar.

Seegs
03-26-2007, 01:00 PM
I redid my entire rig with the Lyrics & Lyric Hgs just because I liked how they sounded and felt and certainly not cause I am rich and have money to blow...

I am cutting and making my own pedal board cables and it is no picnic but the tonal improvements are that startling that I find it worth it...

I did not care for the Melodys in comparison to the Lyrics or the Lyrics Hgs...I find I like the Lyrics better than the Lyric Hgs as they have better bass response...

Chow,
Seegs

Zero Point
03-26-2007, 01:05 PM
I use the Melody cables for the most part. But the first patch from the tube buffer to the first pedal is a Van den Hul. Then the longer cable from front row to shelf is also a VdH. Using Lyric HG from pedalboard to amp. And a VdH jumper to bridge the normal and bright channels of my amp.

Also ordered a 2 foot Siren II speaker cable from Mark.

It's crazy what those VdH cables can do. They are PURE. Adding just a couple of cables in the right place made my entire board sound like it is wired in Lyric and not Melody. Wild :)

-Z

Chrissy
03-26-2007, 01:09 PM
Sorry I don't by it... You guys have talked yourself into spending oodles of money on fancy cables well that's fine.

So it's gonna be Alex this time that ignores the original question and makes blanket statements about other musicians. There's one in every crowd I guess...

If George L's sound great to you then I respect that - more power to anyone who is getting great tone (as they hear it). If you haven't tried both then you haven't compared and can't comment on the comparitive tones. If you think you don't need to in order to know that you still prefer GL's then it would appear that tone is a theoretical rather than practical exercise for you. If you've tried both and preferred the GL's then you must be after something very different from a cable than I am - also up to you.

Bottom line is: I don't "talk myself" into a cable. I try as many cables, effects, amps etc etc as I can get my hands on and play what sounds/feels best to me. If it's the cheaper product my wallet sighs with relief, if not I buy what gets me the tone I like regradless.

Chris

LavaMan
03-26-2007, 01:25 PM
Another plug here for Evidence Audio:

They are one of the few cables that are still made here in America! I say hat's off to Tony the owner for doing this. The majority of cables on the market to include Fulltone Gold and many others are made in China using sub-standard manufacturing processes and cheap copper and materials. You get what you pay for. Most of the larger cable companies and even some stores with their own branded cables are just concerned with mass sales rather than providing a quality product. Companies like Evidence Audio are all about customer service and providing a killer product.

jamison162
03-26-2007, 01:32 PM
My ears are all that matters in the final say.


Absolutely 100% agree!

Unless your a gigging musician!

BillyK
03-26-2007, 01:57 PM
"The majority of cables on the market to include Fulltone Gold and many others are made in China using sub-standard manufacturing processes and cheap copper and materials."

As always, I respect your perspective on this, but I have to say that the Fulltone cable is nothing short of awesome - I love it. I can't analyze the copper and I have no insight into Chinese manufacturing processes (I play guitar!), but I'd hate for any fellow players to pass up such a great cable offered at a realistic price.

FLYING V 83
03-26-2007, 02:18 PM
Unless your a gigging musician!
I am a gigging musician and have never had someone in the crowd come up and ask me why haven't I replaced those shitty George Ls because they can hear the difference.

FLYING V 83
03-26-2007, 02:19 PM
Another plug here for Evidence Audio:

They are one of the few cables that are still made here in America!

But I'm sure they're made with Chinese copper nonetheless.
Cheap materials + expensive American labor doesn't necessarily equate to a better product.

BrentSP
03-26-2007, 02:26 PM
Can someone turn on the A/C, its getting a bit hot in here.
:munch

elambo
03-26-2007, 02:38 PM
Unless your a gigging musician!

I think that's an incredibly pertinent comment! Great point.

elambo
03-26-2007, 02:40 PM
No. I started with no-name molded cables and switched to GLs.
No need to switch again.

I don't mean to sound argumentative, but I said the same thing to my eye doctor right before he showed me that I needed glasses. I didn't even realize there was better vision.

whoismarykelly
03-26-2007, 02:42 PM
FV83 likes the sound and versatility he is getting now. Stop trying to "prove that he is wrong" to him because he is apparently happy with what he uses. These cables aren't accessable to everyone you know. If I were to replace all my pedalboard cables with Lyric HG it would cost more than $750. For FV83 it would be even more.

BrentSP
03-26-2007, 02:46 PM
I don't mean to sound argumentative, but I said the same thing to my eye doctor right before he showed me that I needed glasses. I didn't even realize there was better vision.

He's just saying that he's happy with this tone so theres no need to change. I have a 05 Vette and I'm completely happy with it, but you know what, there are sports cars out there that are way faster and handle better than my vette if I want to pay double the price......but like I said I'm happy with my vette why do I need to change?

Get my point?

Ben C.
03-26-2007, 02:51 PM
Personally, I think the EA Melody cable has smeared and cloudy mids and a rolled off high end compared to the GL cable. Comparable bass. Yes, I've owned both at the same time, and for over a year each.

If you have an amp that you want to sound thicker at the cost of some definition, and that amp has a bright or perhaps even slightly harsh high end, I think the EA Melody is good in that application.

For me, Bill Lawrence (similar to GL's) on the board and Zaollas for everything else are what do it for me now. But given the choice of EA Melody vs. GL's... I'd take GL's.

-Ben

Last Nerve
03-26-2007, 02:54 PM
I tried for a couple weeks to get ahold of Lawrence, to no avail.
I wasn't quite ready to go to "permanent" soldered cables.
But now I am, and I just placed an order with LavaMan for some ELCs for my board. I've been using his Canare 15' cables from guitar>board and board>amp for years now.

elambo
03-26-2007, 03:02 PM
No reason for anyone to get hyper about this - I just think it's an issue of perspective, not personal preference. No one is insulting anyone else's judgment. I'm only asking if there has been an opportunity to compare, thus providing alternative perspectives. Yes, some cables are very expensive, but there are alternatives to GeorgeL that aren't so expensive. And even after an intensive listening session GL's might still come out on top. Until there has been a comparison it's just someone being content with what they have, and that's fine. I'm surprised at how many people are afraid to even consider other options and are insulted when you suggest it.

What's not valid is someone saying that there's no difference between LiveWire and top-shelf cables just because they're more expensive. No doubt the $5000 cables will show very little improvement over $500 cables, but those willing to part with $5000 probably don't spend much time on this forum. But an upgrade from LiveWire to GL or Mogami or Evidence is quite "evident."

The Everlove
03-26-2007, 03:10 PM
I'd say that the Zaolla is better than both. I was floored by the difference between a 20 ft George L and a 15 ft Zaolla Silverline... patch cables too.

LavaMan
03-26-2007, 03:14 PM
"The majority of cables on the market to include Fulltone Gold and many others are made in China using sub-standard manufacturing processes and cheap copper and materials."

As always, I respect your perspective on this, but I have to say that the Fulltone cable is nothing short of awesome - I love it. I can't analyze the copper and I have no insight into Chinese manufacturing processes (I play guitar!), but I'd hate for any fellow players to pass up such a great cable offered at a realistic price.

I am glad you like it. Based on my invlovement in cables for about 3 years now I could provide you with 2-3 slighty less-expensive cables of the same basic design that will sound as good or better better in an A/B test.

Ben C.
03-26-2007, 03:19 PM
I'd say that the Zaolla is better than both. I was floored by the difference between a 20 ft George L and a 15 ft Zaolla Silverline... patch cables too.
You HAD to say that, didn't you? :)

Now that my board is almost 'complete' (to a certain, and I'm sure temporary, degree) I was considering sending my board to Mark and having Zaolla patch cables made. Lets see... 11 patch cables... varying length... $23 each... carry the one... $253 dollars.

Yea, it'll be a while before I do that. I'm sure there would be a noticable difference, and I do like the Zaolla a lot better than any other cable I've used. But at least for me, that's some significant capital to spend when I'm already digging the sound I've got now. Someday though. Someday.

OH - and Last Nerve: I really liked the ELC... I've still got a 15' at home. Really nice cable, although I ultimately replaced it with another Zaolla. I'm sure you'll like it!

(Ultimately, it's not "What's the best sounding cable?", it's "What's the best sounding cable for me with my guitar, rig, amp, and application".)

-Ben

DSmith
03-26-2007, 04:01 PM
Being fairly experienced at audio cable soldering, I redid my pedalboard with bulk EA Melody, Switchcraft ends, shrink-tube, and silversolder and got into the boutique cable ellite at a similar price as it would have cost me to buy pre-made stuff from cheaper cable. To me, it was a noticable tone upgrade from cheap patch cables and some Monster stuff, and the $2.30/ft of Melody was reasonable. BTW, I did buy 2 EA Melody pre-made from Lavaman, mainly for warentee reasons.

For people considering EA Melody for pedalboards, it bends very nicely, but doesn't like to twist. Most of my patch cables had the plugs facing opposite directions from one another to eliminate the need to twist the cable.

http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w225/smit1121/JRwithMelody.jpg

Deaj
03-26-2007, 04:03 PM
I had an Evidence Lyric cable briefly not too long ago. A friend at a local music store was raving about the Evidence cable and loaned one out to me to do some A/B/C/D testing. I had three other cables on hand - a ProCo Excalibur, a home-made for which I'd used switchcraft ends and some high end cable (can't remember brand), and a George-L. All four cables were 18' to 20' in length. Testing was done straight into the amp and I tested through three different amps - a Dr.Z Carmen Ghia, a THD BiValve, and a Rivera Jake. There was a discernable difference between the cables though nothing earth shattering to my ears. I also percieved each differently each time I moved on to the next amp. I repeated this exercise over three afternoons during a long weekend and then returned the Evidence cable to my buddy. I wasn't able to pick a "sounds best" winner and I stopped looking at cables after this testing. I can certainly see why someone would prefer one over the next but I did not perceive enough of a difference to spend any more money on cable. This is just me of course. I can see how the differece would matter to someone else.

Between the guitar and amp (or pedalboard) I use a ProCo Excalibur, a Mogami Gold, or whatever else I have on hand. :) I use the George-L thin cable with right-angle ends on my pedalboard. The only issues I've experienced have been during repeated pedal swapping while resorting my board. Once sorted I cut each cable to fit and reterminate. Then I secure the audio and power cables. I've yet to experience a failure from regular use. I have several George-L cables (thin) with straight ends. I use these to route unbalanced audio signal in my little home project studo and for the final signal run from my pedalboard to the amp - these have never given me any trouble either.

BillyK
03-26-2007, 04:28 PM
I am glad you like it. Based on my invlovement in cables for about 3 years now I could provide you with 2-3 slighty less-expensive cables of the same basic design that will sound as good or better better in an A/B test.

Hey Mark - you've mentioned this before in previous posts, and I think you are referring to your thought that the Fulltone cable is esentially common microphone cable - I could be wrong though (please let me know if I am).

You've also mentioned that twin conductor cable is often superior to single conductor cable - all other variables being equal.

So, if: (sorry for the software logic format - I am just a geek)...
- Twin conductors can be better
- You sell plenty of great twin conductor cables, but they are (relatively) pricey
- Fulltone cable is basically microphone cable (if I have your thought correct on this!)
- LOTS of players love the Fulltone cable (I think TunnelVision recently said that this cable is their #1 seller) and will buy more. I would love to buy more. And I'd like to have this on my board as well!
- You can produce this cable cheaper than Fulltone using better matierials.

Then:
- Why haven't you sold this type of cable?

I am honestly clueless on this point!! I look forward to your thoughts.

The Everlove
03-26-2007, 05:39 PM
(Ultimately, it's not "What's the best sounding cable?", it's "What's the best sounding cable for me with my guitar, rig, amp, and application".)

-Ben

AMEN! Let us go in peace.

Zero Point
03-26-2007, 05:52 PM
Same reason why people went to the dump to scrounge for old vacuum cleaners to use their cords for speaker cables. :D Trends.

I've spent... dayum. Hey Mark! dude, I spent over 600 on cables... :o

Anyway. I've tried George L's, Mogami, Dimarzio, Monster Cables, cheapies, Fulltone, Pete Cornish... tons of brands over the years. My favorite right now is the Van den Hul. And really... Lava has the best prices on those. They aren't cheap. Which was why I did the partial VdH/Melody/Lyric HG thing. Look on e-bay for "Van den Hul". That company makes speaker cables that cost 2000.00 a PAIR. Awesome cables, but they cost.

Van den Hul cables... well. What can I say? Thick. Gold. Hi-Fi honey dripping from a musical comb. Cheaper than the Lyric HG, they are the best cable I've heard. Just that they really are thick :D getting those patch bends in them would take a little work. Hehe, but then again Lyric is kinda thick too. Would have done the whole board in VdH or Lyric but that would have been 400 more bucks I think.

The Evidence Audio cables are balanced. Smooth midrange, and nicely voiced highs. Perfect sound for me.

The George L's tended to be too dark in the mids and bright in the highs for me. Almost like they were voiced for heavier music.
But they are also good for that Eric Johnson kinda tone.

Fulltone cables were... well. They were not BAD cables. But they weren't a Summer, VdH, Evidence, or Zaolla.

I spent as much as I did on cables because I wanted an investment in my sound. These cables should last a long time sitting on my pedalboard.

Also, though he won't say so... my fellow NC dude Mark... probably assembles cables better than anyone I have ever dealt with. Quality product.

-Z

BillyK
03-27-2007, 05:12 PM
Same reason why people went to the dump to scrounge for old vacuum cleaners to use their cords for speaker cables. :D Trends.

Did this really happen?
Thankfully, I missed this trend!

ruger9
03-27-2007, 06:25 PM
just want to add...

somebody posted that they replaced the cable run from the pedalboard to the amp, which WAS a GL's, to something else, left GLs on the pedalboard. I just did the same thng, and found a MARKED improvement.

So, FOR ME (the qualifier), it seems that GL's are fine for the pedalboard itself, but long runs have a much more pronounced effect. Changing the 1 cable improved the sound plenty enough that I'm not off to the bank to get a 2nd mortgage to buy Evidence (or any other) way-overpriced (IMHO) cable. Nothing against against Evidence or any other expensive cable, but JEEZ... how am I supposed to save for an expensive amp or guitar if I'm paying $102 for a 20-foot instrument cable? Not to mention several of them...

Persoanlly, I've been ecstatic with Spectraflex for years, and if they made a "pedalboard kit", I'd buy one & be done with it.

pedalphile
03-27-2007, 07:34 PM
Who cares about the sound? I got the EAs on looks alone! :)

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3253/pb307jm9.jpg

JZG
03-27-2007, 07:58 PM
Another plug here for Evidence Audio:

They are one of the few cables that are still made here in America! I say hat's off to Tony the owner for doing this. The majority of cables on the market to include Fulltone Gold and many others are made in China using sub-standard manufacturing processes and cheap copper and materials. You get what you pay for. Most of the larger cable companies and even some stores with their own branded cables are just concerned with mass sales rather than providing a quality product. Companies like Evidence Audio are all about customer service and providing a killer product.

Tony's customer service and killer product has made me a customer for life. I had emailed him on a Friday afternoon to order some custom Siren cables for my combo amps. I had them the following Monday and I'm almost all the way across the country from him. :AOK

orogeny
03-27-2007, 10:14 PM
What the hey?! I thought I was the only one who used that?! And what the hey are you doing with that setting?! I'm going to have to try it out!

Who cares about the sound? I got the EAs on looks alone! :)

http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3253/pb307jm9.jpg

The Everlove
03-27-2007, 11:01 PM
i must agree, those melody cables are a very aesthetically pleasing patch.

asdf
03-28-2007, 01:52 AM
Being fairly experienced at audio cable soldering, I redid my pedalboard with bulk EA Melody, Switchcraft ends, shrink-tube, and silversolder and got into the boutique cable ellite at a similar price as it would have cost me to buy pre-made stuff from cheaper cable. To me, it was a noticable tone upgrade from cheap patch cables and some Monster stuff, and the $2.30/ft of Melody was reasonable. BTW, I did buy 2 EA Melody pre-made from Lavaman, mainly for warentee reasons.

For people considering EA Melody for pedalboards, it bends very nicely, but doesn't like to twist. Most of my patch cables had the plugs facing opposite directions from one another to eliminate the need to twist the cable.



Where did you buy the bulk cable from? I'm very comfortable with a soldering iron and have made speaker cables before...but I'm having trouble tracking down cable other than Canare GS-6 that I can buy myself and assemble.

johan
03-28-2007, 04:03 AM
Help me out here
My pedal board is soon finished. Need a lot of patch cables for my relatively tight pedal board. Bought a bunch of G&H R/A Black/Nickel plugs and now I need a good cable. What do you recommend?
A TGP:er recommended me the Klotz La Grange (stiff but good) or Sommer Spirits (more flexible but could be noisy with high gain). We can get them for ok money here in Europe.
Since it's only patch cables I don't need more than lets say 8-10 feet.
You think Klotz or Sommer is ok for this? I would love Evidence but I can't find them in bulk + I'm afraid they are harder to solder (never made cables before).

HILFE! :)

andrewnielson
03-28-2007, 04:19 AM
where did you get the EA Melody's?

LavaMan
03-28-2007, 10:32 AM
where did you get the EA Melody's?

From me.

johan
03-28-2007, 10:34 AM
pre-made cable and then cut it up?
can you buy it in bulk?

gls500
03-28-2007, 10:42 AM
are made in China using sub-standard manufacturing processes


Care to elaborate on this? What about their process is sub-standard?

BillyK
03-28-2007, 11:34 AM
Hey Mark - you've mentioned this before in previous posts, and I think you are referring to your thought that the Fulltone cable is esentially common microphone cable - I could be wrong though (please let me know if I am).

You've also mentioned that twin conductor cable is often superior to single conductor cable - all other variables being equal.

So, if: (sorry for the software logic format - I am just a geek)...
- Twin conductors can be better
- You sell plenty of great twin conductor cables, but they are (relatively) pricey
- Fulltone cable is basically microphone cable (if I have your thought correct on this!)
- LOTS of players love the Fulltone cable (I think TunnelVision recently said that this cable is their #1 seller) and will buy more. I would love to buy more. And I'd like to have this on my board as well!
- You can produce this cable cheaper than Fulltone using better matierials.

Then:
- Why haven't you sold this type of cable?

I am honestly clueless on this point!! I look forward to your thoughts.

Here's a related post by a curious forumite that also poses a qood quesiton IMO!

LavaMan
03-28-2007, 11:54 AM
Here's a related post by a curious forumite that also poses a qood quesiton IMO!

Here's the deal:

Gotham GAC-3 (2-conductor) and GAC-4 (4-conductor - which I carry) along with Canare L-4E6S (4-conductor) along with several Belden and Gepco microphone cables can all be found cheaper than the Fulltone cable and in an A/B test will sound as good or better. The Fulltone is double shielded with both a foil and braided shield - this tends to choke the tone. The copper is maybe 70% pure at best and the connectors are not even close to the quality of a Neutrik. The outer PVC is thin compared to many of the these other cables (The Gotham is almosty exactly the same type PVC)

Who wants to do a head-to-head A/B with the Gotham GAC-4 and the Fulltone? I will send you the cable - as long as you will be objective. The Gotham is closest in design to the the Fulltone. email me: mark@lavacable.com

You keep costs down by going with lower grade copper and going overseas for your production and IMO you loose quality and this is why I and Evidence Audio use American factories to make our respective cables. I try to support the U.S. Economy as much as I can, although there some great factories in Europe such as Sommer which make a superior product, as well as Nuetrik in Lichtenstein which are industry standards - but costs are higher in Europe as well.

BillyK
03-28-2007, 05:18 PM
Mark,
Nice response.
I'd love to do a comparison. I can be totally objective - no problem. I own a number of cables, but none of the high-end ones - so I will not suggest that I am a deep-pocketed tone-meister. But I do have 40+ years experience as a player and while not deep-pocketed, I am very particular about tone.

I'll shoot an email to you.
-bk

JKoeth
03-28-2007, 10:41 PM
Here's my board. I've tried Monster Rock, Monster Jazz, Monster Pro 1000, George L, Mogami, Pro Co, Evidence Lyric, Evidence Lyric HG.

The EA Lyric HG won for me. You don't have to spend tons and tons guys. I bought the cable in bulk from an EA dealer, bought the Neutrik and Switchcraft ends and cut and soldered them myself.

By the way, Tony at EA is one of the kindest souls in the buisness.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b78/jkoeth/IMG_6077.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b78/jkoeth/IMG_6396.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b78/jkoeth/IMG_6392.jpg

Mike ODS50
03-28-2007, 10:45 PM
Dude your killing me with that board. Every time I see your set up I want to cut out one of my own kidneys and sell it on the black market so I can build a rig like that. Oh well I guess I'll just have to thin out the PRS collection.:)

JKoeth
03-28-2007, 10:47 PM
Thanks, man! If it makes you feel any better, I've only got one electric at the moment. I am eyeing a Thorn though!

geetarman
03-28-2007, 10:52 PM
Nice board. The EA Lyric HG is a great cable although there's not alot of difference to my ears between that and the regular Lyric especially for wiring a board.

Mike ODS50
03-28-2007, 10:57 PM
Thanks, man! If it makes you feel any better, I've only got one electric at the moment. I am eyeing a Thorn though!

Mmmm....Thorn. Wait! Don't tempt me dammit I'm trying to focus!:D Too much gear and too little money! All in time I guess. I'm ordering bulk EA and getting the ends super cheap through my work...hell I can probably even get away with making them at work too....thats a nice though getting paid to make the new cables for my board. HEHE.:rolleyes:

Enjoyer
03-29-2007, 01:37 AM
Man!!! JKoeth, you are killing me with that set up.
Good on you. Tasteful, toneful.

BillyK
03-29-2007, 05:51 AM
J:
Nice.
Where did you buy the R/A connectors?
-bk

JKoeth
03-29-2007, 07:53 AM
J:
Nice.
Where did you buy the R/A connectors?
-bk

Ebay. Effectsconnection. They were a pain to fit onto the EA cable but I got it to work after some effort.

BillyK
03-29-2007, 08:25 AM
Thanks J.

bluey
03-29-2007, 09:06 AM
You should check this thread out : http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=200747

Enter at your own risk - it got people pretty worked up but I tried it with George L's and it helped a lot.

Sparky6string
03-29-2007, 09:23 AM
Since this thread has seemed to expand to include all brands of cables I'll add to it. I'm just about to buy some decent cables for the first time, and I'm looking at George Ls for my board and 3 25' Canares. I don't have the kind of money to spend that a lot of you have. My question is: are the Canares fairly highly regarded? They have a price that is within my range, and from what I've read thus far they seem to be my best choice.

BillyK
03-29-2007, 09:29 AM
IMO, the Canares are constructed really well, handle well, but sound a bid "dark" (subjective, I know) compared to GL. GL cable is pretty hard to beat at the price. I prefer it over Canare.

Sparky6string
03-29-2007, 09:32 AM
IMO, the Canares are constructed really well, handle well, but sound a bid "dark" (subjective, I know) compared to GL. GL cable is pretty hard to beat at the price. I prefer it over Canare.

I thought Canares were brighter than average. Do you prefer GL even for long (25') runs? Bright is kinda what I'm going for here.

BillyK
03-29-2007, 09:48 AM
I thought Canares were brighter than average. Do you prefer GL even for long (25') runs? Bright is kinda what I'm going for here.

I find Canare to be among the darkest cables I've owned. Although there are lots of characteristics that contribute to cable performance (Mark has a great explanation from today here: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=155082&page=5 )

Capacitance is one measure that can affect apparent top-end response. I think that in a general sense, lower capacitance can be brighter, higher capacitance can lean toward darker. Canare I think as about 50pf/ft and GL is about 25pf/ft. I defer to Mark (LavaMan) on this.

It's really hard to beat GL in that price range IMO for relatively bright cable! Longer runs may actually call for GL's in your case.

LavaMan
03-29-2007, 09:57 AM
Mark,
Nice response.
I'd love to do a comparison. I can be totally objective - no problem. I own a number of cables, but none of the high-end ones - so I will not suggest that I am a deep-pocketed tone-meister. But I do have 40+ years experience as a player and while not deep-pocketed, I am very particular about tone.

I'll shoot an email to you.
-bk

Got your order on my table...should go out this weekend.

Sparky6string
03-29-2007, 10:03 AM
Wow, dodged a bullet there. Thanks Billy. I guess I should get Mark on the line and have a talk.

BillyK
03-29-2007, 10:08 AM
Wow, dodged a bullet there. Thanks Billy. I guess I should get Mark on the line and have a talk.

Makes sense. Glad to help.

elambo
04-14-2007, 09:39 PM
Partly because of the hype generated in this thread, I did finally swap all of my GeorgeLs to Evidence, and I couldn't be happier. What had become a relatively thin and brittle tone at times is now smooth and even throughout the sonic spectrum. It's much more pleasurable to listen back to a recording. An engineer at my studio who has recently taken interest in guitar, and guitar tone, walked in during my first recording with the new cables and made an unprompted comment on how good the guitar sounded. Same guitar, pedals, amps, etc. that I'd been using for a while, and he didn't even know the cables had been swapped, yet he noticed the tone right away. How's THAT for a difference?!? A true blind test.

I'm now taking steps to replace Mogami cables in the chain that sit outside of my rig (amp to mic preamp, mic preamp to recorder, etc.) and although I'm not expecting as much of an improvement as I got when swapping out the GLs I do anticipate a slight improvement.


All cables came from Mark at Lava. Another happy customer.

JZG
04-14-2007, 09:50 PM
elambo - thanks for the report! I need to get motivated and get my pedalboard together so I can get those Melodies on there. I just got done auditioning a Melody cable with Neutrik silent plug. That might be the greatest invention since the string winder. The Melody doesn't seem to have quite the detail of a Lyric HG, but we're talking a cat hair's difference. It's still a damn good cable.

Dickie Fredericks
04-14-2007, 11:36 PM
Two years now with George Ls (unplated brass ends) with 3-4 gigs a month, and about 13,475 board changes in that time. :)
No failures, no problems, no "high end" bite. LP thru a Marshall and I've never had better tone.
To each his own. My ears are all that matters in the final say.

Good Call...

I use the George L's on my board and Ive not noticed any high end bite either. Ive never had one fail on the board though Ive only changed it a few times.

I like em simply for the fact that you can make one up on the spot with little to no effort.

I play a Strat and a Tele into the Marshall. I get compliments on my tone all the time...mostly compared to Santana's tone which though I disagree and do not think I sound like him, his tone would hardly be called high end bite...

phoenix 7
04-15-2007, 04:02 AM
elambo,

Glad the Evidence cables worked for you! I had a feeling they would.

:BEER

Traintrack
04-15-2007, 08:34 AM
Why do people insist on using small cable connectors on pedal boards with pedals that have input jacks that line up?

Why doesn't anyone use barrel connectors? Seems to me that they would be cheaper and sound better.

MitchC
04-15-2007, 09:42 AM
Been thinking of redoing my board from G L's to the Lava brand cable. Anyone here use Lava's cable on their boards ?

ModTourMan
04-15-2007, 09:49 AM
Possibly stepping off the main road of this highway. . . George L's are not my thang. I didn't go down the Evidence or Lava road, because I found:

DiMarzio.

Yup.

Pedal - pedal cables run about 9 or 10 dollars each. That should keep some cork sniffers happy. Excellent tone. Excellent reliability. I think I'll try Evidence and Lava someday for sh*ts and giggles, but I'm certainly NOT in NEED of anything in this department any longer.

+1 on Dimarzio cables...zero issues with my 10' guitar cable after 4 years of heavy use.

slingshotmb
04-15-2007, 09:49 AM
Just swithing from monster 1000's to these.. scary quite crystal clear.
http://www.lavacable.com/VanDenHul.htm
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f367/slingshotmb/vdH20Patch20web.jpg