How long do I wait before giving up on a speaker???

[dk_ace]

I bought an AC15cc from nitrotone in January. I absolutely loved the sound out of the box. For the next few months it was great as my home amp. I took it to a jam where I could really open it up a few weeks ago, and things went south. The treble was harsh (in a painful to the ear way). Wasn't digging the amp at that volume at all. As this was the first time the amp had seen real volume, it may be the first step it took towards breaking in. I haven't really liked it since.

It is a little thin, but the real problem is this nasty fizzy edge that I get with the low E being played hard on the bridge pup of my tele. I can get it in other ways, but that is the most notable. Is this just part of the breaking in period? If so, how long before I say that this isn't the speaker for me? Most of the playing is clean with the master wide open.

Thanks,
D

[el34power]

I bought an AC15cc from nitrotone in January. I absolutely loved the sound out of the box. For the next few months it was great as my home amp. I took it to a jam where I could really open it up a few weeks ago, and things went south. The treble was harsh (in a painful to the ear way). Wasn't digging the amp at that volume at all. As this was the first time the amp had seen real volume, it may be the first step it took towards breaking in. I haven't really liked it since.

It is a little thin, but the real problem is this nasty fizzy edge that I get with the low E being played hard on the bridge pup of my tele. I can get it in other ways, but that is the most notable. Is this just part of the breaking in period? If so, how long before I say that this isn't the speaker for me? Most of the playing is clean with the master wide open.

Thanks,
D

You have got to put a good 40 hours of "jam volume" to be sure.

[dk_ace]

You have got to put a good 40 hours of "jam volume" to be sure.


That was the first thing on the list of things I didn't want to hear. I really haven't been playing the amp a lot. Mainly because I can't get past than thin, fizzy sound. Maybe I should try that running a loud stereo through it while I'm gone technique.

D

[JubileeMan 2555]

my motto is that if I don't like it right away, nothing will change it.

Things like better power tubes, better cables, and speaker break-in seem to be things that only make something you already like, sound even better. But I don't think they can make bad sound great on their own.

[Scumback Speakers]

It's going to depend on the speaker type as to how long it will take to break in, that's for sure. What's in the amp right now?

[Jarick]

After playing that amp for a while last night, I don't think it's the type of amp that thrives being cranked up. It sounds great at lower volumes, but turning it up, it really feels like it's choking.

Don't quote me, I'm not an amp tech, and I sure don't know about this particular amp, but I would imagine it could greatly benefit from a bigger output transformer and better tubes.

Also, the stock speaker does sound a little inefficient, a new one could probably help. Something efficient, 100 dB or so, that could help.

Overall, I think it's just an amp meant to either be played quiet or miked up. Perhaps look into the AC30CC1 if you can find one. I'd make you an offer on your amp but just found one.

[rockon1]

You have got to put a good 40 hours of "jam volume" to be sure.


+1. Thats about what I found with my G12H-30's. Harsh,icepicky,fizzy until then. I love them now. Bob

My Tonespotters sounded thin and flubby until I put about 20 or so hours on them Now they are almost to fat and midrangy! Break in time seems to vary.

[strumminsix]

I've heard people say that you can loop a CD into the amp. However, I wouldn't do it just like that. I'd likely run the CD player out into an EQ and shelf off all the non-guitar range frequencies and then try it.

But in all honesty, if the amp ain't doing it for you know....

My break-in experience is like this: wow nice speaker upgrade and two weeks later is WOW THIS IS GREAT!!!

It will get better but doesn't sound like it will to the point you want it to be at.

[stratzrus]

I'd try it with an external cabinet or swap out the speaker to see if you still hear the same problem if waiting through the break in period doesn't appeal.

stratzrus

[dave s]

Not sure which speaker is in your 15, but my 30CC2 came with VOX's 'Wharfdale' model that behaved EXACTLY as you decribe your AC15. Same top-end harshness that couldn't be EQ'd out with the amp's controls or with the controls on my guitars. Tele as well going through mine.

Fortunately for me, a deal on a pair of the Celestion Blue 15 watters came my way and they are in the amp now. Just incredible sounding speakers and I don't believe there to be a better speaker match than the blue frame 15 watt Celestion.

If swinging a few hundred on a Blue isn't in the cards for obivous reason, there are alternatives that have been discussed here at TGP on a regular basis.

Good luck. These new VOX amps do sound tremendous.

dave

[dk_ace]

The current speaker is the stock wharfdale. I have considered getting a blue (I still haven't ruled it out), but I don't want to toss this speaker until I've given it a fair chance. The wharfs are frequently compared to the g12h30, which rockon has had experience with and said that they sound like that until they break in.

As for those that thought the amp isn't for me, I didn't make myself clear. I love the amp's sound. The fizz that I'm talking about is clearly a speaker issue (you'd have to hear it). This amp isn't meant to run wide open, which is why I don't do it. I run the master open and feed it with the pre volume. It is usually totally clean or just barely clipping. This amp is mainly just for my home practice and some grab and go stuff with pedals.

I ran it through a V30 cab (the only other speaker I have handy), and there was no fizz whatsoever. The problem is that the vox sound totally disappeared as well (no chime or forward presence).

Thanks,
D

[ruger9]

my motto is that if I don't like it right away, nothing will change it.

Things like better power tubes, better cables, and speaker break-in seem to be things that only make something you already like, sound even better. But I don't think they can make bad sound great on their own.

I'm gonna' have to disagree with that, just personal experience. I put a Weber Silver 10 in my Classic 20, and HATED it out of the box. Too bright, too tight, too edgy. Now that is has some decent playing time on it, it actually sounds great. The high-end edginess is almost gone, it's looser & warmer. Definitely a different speaker than it was out of the box. IMHO, the break-in thing is REAL. No need to go thru all the debate ("you just got used to the speaker, it didn't actually change"), that's all been covered in a seperate speaker break-in thread.

[Boogs]

Break-in, in my experience, has ranged from very subtle change to complete change - it depends on the speaker.

[aeolian]

The first thing that comes to mind when someone complains about an EL84 combo being fizzy or harsh is microphonic output tubes. EL84's aren't that strong (dispite them being invented for car radios) inside. At least the modern ones I went though a few years back. Tap the tubes, if you hear a metalic rattle, there you go. Pluggin into an external cabinet would stop the amp from vibrating the tubes so much.

[dartanion]

Breaking in a speaker makes a big difference, but I'm not sure you are looking at this from the appropriate angle.

The Vox AC15 uses a classic Vox style Phase Inverter that is setup for this tone. That 1K2 cathode resistor in the PI is the culprit. Change that out to an 820 ohm and you'll be cooking with gas!!! The Vox style PI is notorious for it's fizzy clipping, so it's part of the circuit.

You can affect the resultant tone with a speaker that has a darker voicing, but it won't cure the issue.

[dartanion]

The first thing that comes to mind when someone complains about an EL84 combo being fizzy or harsh is microphonic output tubes. EL84's aren't that strong (dispite them being invented for car radios) inside. At least the modern ones I went though a few years back. Tap the tubes, if you hear a metalic rattle, there you go. Pluggin into an external cabinet would stop the amp from vibrating the tubes so much.

Microphonic tubes have little to do with fizziness. EL84s are known to be bright and chimey, but can be fizzy in certain circuits, like a Vox or Ghia. I have built lots of EL84 based amps and none of them are fizzy. Again, this is a matter of taste. Some folks like that tone, others don't.

[electroid]

If you like Celestion Blues, consider the Eminence Red Fang. Very close in tone and much less $$