Difference between ES-335's [Archive]

JimmyR

04-23-2007, 02:25 AM

Probably not a whole lot! Main differences between my old CS '59 335 and the then regular dot-neck 335 were the machine heads, neck and the way the block inside was shaped. On the Historic there was only a little round hole for the bridge pickup wire, whereas on the regular 335 there's a huge gap that the entire electronics can fit through. The historic was a touch lighter in my case, too. But they weren't hugely different.

lukeII

04-23-2007, 03:41 AM

Differences are:- Long neck tenon on historic- the body is not ply like on the regular 335- Neck shape is chunkier on the 59 historic- longer pickguard on the 59 historic

fjs1962

04-23-2007, 05:15 AM

I posted this on another thread too, but here goes:

From what I can see the differences between the Production Fat neck 335 and the Historic are:

Holly Headstock veneer on the Historic

Solid center block on the Historic with only a pickup wire hole for the bridge pickup and the electronics installed through the lower F hole (like on vintage 335s), while the Production has a chunk out of the block at the bridge pickup and the electronics are installed through the bridge pickup route

maple/poplar/maple laminate for the front, back and sides on the Production model while the Historic is maple/maple/maple like the vintage guitars

Taller modern Gibson frets on the Production while the Historic gets more "vintage correct" shorter med/jumbo frets

I may be wrong on some of this and there may be more I don't know about, so feel free to correct as needed ;)

jzgtrguy

04-23-2007, 12:24 PM

laflamme

04-23-2007, 12:40 PM

Try the epiphone elitist es-335 1963 dot. You will not be sorry that you saved a few thousand dollars. I have one and I have had the gibsons and it is a fantastic player and excellent tone (same pickups and electronics as the usa models). The main difference is the poly finish instead of nitro.

I have never looked back.

monstermike

04-23-2007, 12:52 PM

The Elitists I've played have the slim neck.

bbarnard

04-23-2007, 01:53 PM

Thanks Guys!

I am in the hunt for one and one of the things I am looking for is a fuller neck profile. I do not like the 60's slim taper neck profile. I have also been looking at Heritage H535's but they do not make one with a fuller neck. Maybe one could be custom ordered. I have also been looking at Tokai and Greco guitars. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Jeff

I have a Tokai ES120 and the neck profile is larger than the slim 60s, more akin to the 50s type. It is NOT however as big as the Fat Neck that I played a couple weeks ago at the Gibson trailer at the Jax Blues Festival. That thing was very beefy. I've never played a 59 Historic so I can't speak to that neck size.

It was a couple grand cheaper however and the neck and playability are pretty good.

jzgtrguy

04-24-2007, 09:27 PM

Thanks, I know of Tokai but I am not sure which ones to check out. Which years were the good years and so on. I am open though..

Thanks,

Jeff

bbarnard

04-25-2007, 01:01 PM

Thanks, I know of Tokai but I am not sure which ones to check out. Which years were the good years and so on. I am open though..

Thanks,

Jeff

Virtually all of the Japanese ones. The Korean ones are of lesser quality. I believe mine is about 2-3 years old.

jzgtrguy

04-26-2007, 12:47 PM

Do the Tokia's have different model numbers? Which ones do I look for? Just the ES120? Anyone know anything about Greco's?

Thanks,
Jeff

LSchefman

04-26-2007, 01:59 PM

All of this is interesting to me; I haven't owned a Gibby since a few years ago when I let my brother have his original '65 SG Special back after living with me for, oh, 40 years. ;)

But I have a '59 Historic 335 coming as part of a trade deal.

I've never owned a semi hollow guitar; I'm told this is a good one, so it's gonna be fun seeing what happens.

Thanks for the info on the model differences; Gibson nomenclature has always baffled me.

chappy

04-26-2007, 05:38 PM

bbarnard

04-27-2007, 11:33 AM

Do the Tokia's have different model numbers? Which ones do I look for? Just the ES120? Anyone know anything about Greco's?

Thanks,
Jeff

Yes, when I bought mine they had ES100 and ES120. The 120 was the upscale model. I believe that they have different numbers this year (130?). There is a Tokai forum out there like this one, you should ask there.

Guy from Idaho

04-27-2007, 11:52 AM

Differences are:........the body is not ply like on the regular 335................

??????????????:confused:

BettyFjord

04-27-2007, 12:11 PM

A couple of years ago I heard rumours that all 335s had long tenons so I opened up my 2001 Gibson USA to look. And, surprise, there´s what appears to be a long tenon.

So I did some digging on the Gibson forums and it seems that 335s all have long tenons - they never changed the tooling. The only difference between a Gibson USA 335 and a Custom Shop one is the Holly headstock veneer, the centre block and possibly the ply (I never confirmed this).

http://images.bettyfjord.com/ES335-Long-Tenon.jpg

GCDEF

04-27-2007, 12:46 PM

Thanks Guys!

I am in the hunt for one and one of the things I am looking for is a fuller neck profile. I do not like the 60's slim taper neck profile. I have also been looking at Heritage H535's but they do not make one with a fuller neck. Maybe one could be custom ordered. I have also been looking at Tokai and Greco guitars. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Jeff

The 535 neck is on the larger side though. I've owned a bunch of Gibsons, including two ES-335s. The Heritage just runs circles around them. Never thought I'd say that, but it's true.

LSchefman

04-27-2007, 08:02 PM

Getting a CS Reissue '59 335 is going to be fun for me, since it's coming in a trade, and I don't have to obsess over it.

I am hoping I like it, I've always thought about trying one out, just never got around to it.

custom kid

11-06-2007, 08:19 AM

Has anyone had a chance to compare the neck on the 'fat neck' with the '59 Historic?

Are they pretty similar profile or is there a noticeable difference between the two?

Drowned Rabbit

11-06-2007, 10:03 AM

I bought the cheapest 335 musician's friend had.
After I dropped Lindy Fralin's in, it sounds better
than the $3k boutique semi-hollow I own. These
are great guitars and, from what I can tell, there
is not alot of difference between the tone of the
historic and the regular production models.

With a Les Paul, I much prefer the historics. But
with the 335, I wouldn't spend the extra dough.

Dylan61

11-06-2007, 11:50 AM

Wice move..

How did the Lindy Fralins change the sound?

I bought the cheapest 335 musician's friend had.
After I dropped Lindy Fralin's in, it sounds better
than the $3k boutique semi-hollow I own. These
are great guitars and, from what I can tell, there
is not alot of difference between the tone of the
historic and the regular production models.

With a Les Paul, I much prefer the historics. But
with the 335, I wouldn't spend the extra dough.

Drowned Rabbit

11-07-2007, 05:22 AM

Wice move..

How did the Lindy Fralins change the sound?

I'm a big fan of Lindy's. The thing I like about his PUPs is that they seem to improve the tone without changing the overall character of the guitar in which they've been installed. For example, the ones I put in my 335 are slightly overwound. This obviously thickened and warmed up the guitar, especially in the bridge PUP. But the fact that they're a better made, higher-quality humbucker also helped to make sure the characteristic semi-hollow "airy-ness" was not lost, even at high gain. Also, they provide a better note/string definition than the stock PUPs, but still maintain that dark, slightly jazzy classic (to me) 335 tone.

Jim S

11-24-2007, 07:20 PM

These
are great guitars and, from what I can tell, there
is not alot of difference between the tone of the
historic and the regular production models.

Anybody compare/contrast tone of the Historic vs USA ES-355s?

,

Thomas27

11-24-2007, 08:06 PM

Yes, when I bought mine they had ES100 and ES120. The 120 was the upscale model. I believe that they have different numbers this year (130?). There is a Tokai forum out there like this one, you should ask there.

http://www1.odn.ne.jp/tokaigakki/ New numbers and specs. The top of the line is the ES175 (i know, i know) and is so vintage correct it hurts a little. I think a couple of members here have tokais. Edwards is also worth a look with the solid maple top and backs http://www.espguitars.co.jp/edwards/index.html

bluesjuke

11-24-2007, 08:17 PM

maple/poplar/maple laminate for the front, back and sides on the Production model while the Historic is maple/maple/maple like the vintage guitars

I may be wrong on some of this and there may be more I don't know about, so feel free to correct as needed ;)

maple/maple/maple laminate layers only happened sometimes in the 'good old days'.
maple/poplar/maple or maple/birch/maple were common even back in the day.

All 335's have long tenons but the Historics tenon is wider than the USA models.

Both sound similar but I get a slightly fuller tone out of my Historic with good note bloom.
The notes bloom really well on my '99 USA 335 too.

Proper neck relief adjustments bring out the best tone in all of these.
By proper I mean what is best for that particular individual guitar.

I'm not crazy about the thinner USA neck but it sounds so good I keep my USA.

I have not had the chance to play a Fat Neck yet but I think I would like it very much.
Can't wait to get a chance.

JimmyR

11-24-2007, 09:24 PM

I've had a load of 335s over the years. The last one before my latest was a Historic '59 which was a great guitar. But I think I like my current Fatneck even better. The neck shapes are very similar - as similar as Gibson can get 'em! This Fatneck is probably the best 335 I have owned. I had a '65 once and while it sounded good it was hard to play with it's skinny baseball bat neck (narrow/thick).

In fact I like this fatneck 335 so much I haven't even changed pickups in it yet! It has a bit more squawk to the bridge pickup and a bit more definition in the neck pickup over the Historic. Plus it turned up better set-up out of the box. The neck is a beauty and I much prefer the kluson tuners over the stock Grovers.

Oh and the only other differences between the Fatneck and the Historic I can think of would be the bumblebee caps (in the Historic only) and the aluminium tailpiec e - the Fatneck has the standard heavier tailpiece. Still sounds darn good though! I have been playing my Fatneck through a homebrew 5E3 a lot and it sounds incredible. I have been using vol and tones on the guitar a lot and they work really well stock.

And I like the deeper cherry colour of mine over the brighter colours we have seen recently.

HTH!

FiveG

11-25-2007, 06:13 AM

Trying to get frame of reference on necks: would an early 80s ES347 have what would be considered a thin neck?

bluesjuke

11-25-2007, 06:41 AM

The 535 neck is on the larger side though. I've owned a bunch of Gibsons, including two ES-335s. The Heritage just runs circles around them. Never thought I'd say that, but it's true.

I keep hearing this so I pick up and play every H535 I come across.
Not one has felt as good or better than a Gibson to me so far.

MaxBoogie

11-25-2007, 07:22 AM

That's NOT a long tenon...

A couple of years ago I heard rumours that all 335s had long tenons so I opened up my 2001 Gibson USA to look. And, surprise, there´s what appears to be a long tenon.

BettyFjord

11-25-2007, 07:58 AM

That's NOT a long tenon...

If you could show a picture of a 335 with a longer tenon - not wider, which was already discussed - I'd very much like to see it.

MaxBoogie

11-25-2007, 09:23 AM

Well the long neck tenons I've seen generally go under the untire neck pickup cavity... But I can't find a pic of one specifically on a 335... so I'll relax for the moment! :D

Dylan61

01-14-2008, 04:17 AM

Allright took me some time but here it is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89iGuz0NzQ

BettyFjord

01-14-2008, 06:54 AM

Strange. The 335 tenon looks like a cross between the short one (narrow with a rounded end) and the long one (extending past the fretboard into the neck cavity).

I was told that the tooling wasn't changed between the Custom and USA 335s so they have the same tenon. I would be very interested to see what a Custom Shop 335 cavity looks like. The LP tenons might have completely different tooling.

Anyone with a CS 335 willing to lift the pickup out a bit and let us see? Having done it, I can promise it's very easy to do.

franksguitar

01-15-2008, 01:28 PM

I have a sunburst 1990 ES 335 I bought used with the hang tags in mint condition but of course the hardware had tarnish it has a wider, flat early 60's neck profile and came with stock grovers. This guitar is a gem playing and sound wise.. I've had an early 70 ES335 and the neck was alot thinner. I also had a 64 ES345 that was fatter yet as I recall the nut width was a bit narrower than my 1990. I've played a friends 1967 and played another friends 2000 and both necks are narrower at the nut. I have not removed any PU's to determine tenon length. Everyone likes my 335.

daddyo

01-15-2008, 01:49 PM

Differences are:- Long neck tenon on historic- the body is not ply like on the regular 335- Neck shape is chunkier on the 59 historic- longer pickguard on the 59 historic
sure it is. Always has been. But as posted earlier, Historic is 3 ply maple and standard is maple/poplar/maple.

Joe Tone

05-02-2008, 12:09 PM

Biggest differences between the historic and regular 335's are the solid center block, long tennon neck joint, neck size and klusons instead of grovers. I would be shocked if the actual body plys were any different. I would be even more shocked if anyone could tell the sonic difference between one middle layer of plywood versus another, but I am sure someone here will make that claim sooner or later ;)

Actually the differences between the two different types of plys cannot be heard, but can be felt. If any of the over-cerebral types would like to experience this "feeling" you need but got to a "Who" reunion concert while Townsend is playing his and make a remark about his mom and he will accomodate you this feeling.