WTF is Up with Gibson?

[Last Nerve]

I might be behind the times here, but when and WHY are Gibson Dealers not allowed to post pictures of their Gibson and Epiphone guitars in stock and why are they no longer allowed to sell them online?

[justonwo]

You are only about 2 or 3 years behind on that one. Do a search on the LPF and you will find enough Gibson bashing to keep you occupied for days.

[daddyo]

Yes, this storm blew through in 2004 or 2005.

[tac5]

Sweetwater has a great photo gallery of the Gibsons they have in stock. You can buy anyone you want on line. That's just one example.

[Flinto2002]

Sweetwater has a great photo gallery of the Gibsons they have in stock. You can buy anyone you want on line. That's just one example.

Sure, so does MF and the other larger online whores. It's only the mom & pop/smaller stores that got the ass end of the stick on this deal.

My advice.....find the guitar you want on sweetwater or musicians friend.....then call ANY other gibson dealer and buy it over the phone...they can email you pics, just can't post them. They'll also match and sometimes beat the MF price.

[esoteric pete]

im glad i bought all my gibsons used. i dont even think a long hot shower could make me feel clean after buying something NEW from that company.

its too bad cause all the ones i have kill!

[Johnnytone]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/Johnnytone/youarehere-timeline.jpg

[justonwo]

:rollHa ha ha.

[Pete Galati]

Gibson has left the building.

[Robert1950]

Yeah, Gibson, the company. But I still want an SG badly.

[thesedaze]

Sure, so does MF and the other larger online whores. It's only the mom & pop/smaller stores that got the ass end of the stick on this deal.

My advice.....find the guitar you want on sweetwater or musicians friend.....then call ANY other gibson dealer and buy it over the phone...they can email you pics, just can't post them. They'll also match and sometimes beat the MF price.

Sweetwater can ALWAYS beat the MF price, and you get a personal representative (forever and ever). The only time I ever get gear elsewhere is if I'm in GC and there's an impulse buy, or a small item I need ASAP like strings, etc. The KEY: CALL THEM. Don't just order it online.

[stevieboy]

Remember that Gibson has a minimum advertised price that many, whether they are authorized online sellers or not, will beat but can't publish.

[gregory49]

the company might be *****d but they still make some of the best man.

[webe123]

Yeah, most basically agree that Gibson as a company sucks when it comes to screwing over their former small time dealers and doing what they did to online ordering, but they still make some of the best guitars around.

So as a company, they suck. But as a builder of guitars, they still make some of the best.

[jads57]

I definetly agree they`re making the best guitars now, and hat`s off to the wonderful luthiers. But that being said, I don`t think I`ll ever buy a new guitar from them again, and I`ve owned quite a few( Johnny A, Pat Martino, ES-345, Firebird Non Reverse CS, etc.) As much as I like, no love their guitars, I`m just as happy playing my modded PRS SE Soapbar at at a 10th of the cost. Plus I`d rather support a company w/decent ethics.

[DanielT2]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/Johnnytone/youarehere-timeline.jpg

Sarcastic but funny :roll

[XKnight]

I was at a well repected local shop recently that no longer carries Gibsons. They said that the quality of the guitars had gone down so much that they were sending more guitars back than they were keeping. This shop still carries Fender as well as Anderson, McNaught, Martin and a few other brands.

Has anyone else heard this recently about Gibson quality? Or, do you think this smaller shop just got fed up with Gibson's policies?

[esoteric pete]

I definetly agree they`re making the best guitars now.


cant say im with ya on this one, while my gibsons, all newer, are awesome, i cant say that the guitars they are making now are better than what came out of the 50's era....

[FPFL]

I'm totally a band wagon whore on this one but I am also a non-fan.

Gibson makes a good guitar but its CERTAINLY not a good value unless money is no object for your gear fix. What kills me is they do nothing to hide this. They can afford to though...

Gibson to me is now absolutely no more than a boomer oriented brand milking the well enough to do because they can on the raw power of nostalgia alone.

They have no mojo, no special sauce, no special tone formula - just a deep and wide commitment to marketing that is working. They are doing their damn best to keep that going with the younger kids too. I see more LPs and SGs on TV and in movies in the last 5 years than ever before. I'm certain its no coincidence. Is it smart business? Absolutely. Do they still suck, IMO, absolutely.

-P

[OldSchool]

I had some pulled pork for lunch and I gotta go take a Gibson.............http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon11.gif

[mtlin]

My experience with recent Gibsons is that they are nothing special. There are some great ones for sure, but they are few and far between. I've seen some truly horrible Gibsons in my local music stores lately. QC doesn't exist at Gibson it would seem. YMMV.

[BBQLS1]

You are only about 2 or 3 years behind on that one. Do a search on the LPF and you will find enough Gibson bashing to keep you occupied for months.


I fixed it for you!

[thesedaze]

I still think their best guitars were in the Lloyd Loar days...Those early L series guitars....Hard to find anything sweeter.

[justonwo]

I fixed it for you!

Fixed what for me?

[toomanyamps]

I know it is very fashionable to bash Gibson's as poor values, but in their lower end models, the Faded Series while crudely finished offer a lot better tone than almost all of their competitors in that price range. You can get USA made guitars from Gibson from $349 to $799 that sound great.

[Chuckracer]

Really. So if I was a Strat guy, I would still agree with you?
That's some statment.

[dharmafool]

I was at a well repected local shop recently that no longer carries Gibsons. They said that the quality of the guitars had gone down so much that they were sending more guitars back than they were keeping. This shop still carries Fender as well as Anderson, McNaught, Martin and a few other brands.

Has anyone else heard this recently about Gibson quality? Or, do you think this smaller shop just got fed up with Gibson's policies?

Yes to both questions. I know of a "small" store that dropped Gibson about five years ago for these very reasons. One of Gibson's onerous demands was that the store order a substantial quantity of Epiphone goods, before it would accept Gibson orders for higher end or custom shop pieces. And because the store was sending back too many lousy Gibsons and selling the Epiphones, it simply dropped Gibson without regret. Perhaps only recently has that town gotten another store to start carrying Gibson.

[loudboy]

Do a search on the LPF and you will find enough Gibson bashing to keep you occupied for days.

But won't they boot you off if you even mention another brand?

Kind of a weird self-loathing thing going on there...

Loudboy

[tmd187]

Dont' even get my started on Gibson, yes I understand they are a great whatever and some of the sickest guitars are Gibsons, but I got a total piece of crap ES-137 and had to send it to them 3 times for Warranty Problems, I ended up trading it in for a lower value inst. but I won in the end. My thesis: Gibson makes some of the greatest guitars in history, and certain models are amazing, but the Company itself is piss poor at handling stuff, especially when they say they will replace parts that tarnish within 4 months of buying a new guitar. I don't know, maybe I just didn't have luck with that guitar, I would consider buying another if it was right, I'm sorry if I vented to much. But it can get bad when you have a horrible experience w/ a Company!

[DanielT2]

I had some pulled pork for lunch and I gotta go take a Gibson.............http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon11.gif

Man you guys make me laugh. I love LP's and miss being able to look at killer R9's on the web. I really don't get Gibson's anti-web policy. I mean, you can practically find anything on the internet except a new Les Paul - go figure :NUTS

[A-Bone]

I'm more familiar with smaller space stores declining to keep their Gibson licensing agreement because the guitar company places onerous demands on the variety and quantity of guitars that the store must buy. For many of these stores, replacing a huge volume of mass produced Gibsons with a smaller selection from boutique makers is a better way to go.

[walterw]

aside from everything else, all gibsons, no matter how pricey, need a professional set up as soon as they come out of the box. they build a fine product, but don't bother to intonate it or file the nut slots so it stays in tune.

[OldSchool]

I know it is very fashionable to bash Gibson's as poor values, but in their lower end models, the Faded Series while crudely finished offer a lot better tone than almost all of their competitors in that price range. You can get USA made guitars from Gibson from $349 to $799 that sound great.

Too bad its the $2000 LP standard Range you gotta worry about.

I heard visiting the Gibson plant is good luck. Its like stepping in shit. :munch

[Bluedawg]

IIRC the only official On-Line Gibson dealers are

www.guitarsale.com (http://www.guitarsale.com)

www.sweetwater.com (http://www.sweetwater.com)

and

Musician's Fiend

These are the only dealers that can show their Gibson stock on the web.

That said, if you go to the www.lespaulforum.com (http://www.lespaulforum.com) their linked dealers will gladly send you pictures if you request them. If you are going to consider buying a Gibson on-line, these dealers are highly recommended.

Gibson deserves some of the bashing, but if you browse through the Gibson sucks posts on this and other sites, you will find a very significant percentage of them start off with "I tried some Les Pauls at the local Guitar Center" or "I bought a Gibson from Musician's Fiend."

Good dealers should will take care of their guitars and their customers.

:munch

[smallbutmighty]

...all gibsons, no matter how pricey, need a professional set up as soon as they come out of the box...they build a fine product, but don't bother to intonate it or file the nut slots so it stays in tune.

Don't those statements all seem to be at odds with each other?

Honestly...I haven't picked up a new Gibson that I've like in years. As someone said earlier, they are building their brand as a status symbol/ luxury item for baby-boomers with disposable income...and doing a very good job of it.

A

[Crunchyriff]

...but they still make some of the best guitars around That my good man, is a matter of opinion. One I don't share, and that's why I ditched my Gibsons (including my #1- a '58 Historic)...and went elsewhere.

Certainly their QC has improved, but I can buy a better guitar than they can cough up and do it with less cash out of my wallet as well. Another issue: Any company that HAS to buy a Plek machine to turn out quality fretwork is a company I can do without. PRS and Tom Anderson (just for starters) OTOH, have been doing this for years.

I won't touch another Gibson until Henry J has absolutely NOTHING to do with Gibson guitars...period.

Nothing personal to you Gibson Guitar fans here- remember, I am one too.

YMMV.

[jda]

Don't those statements all seem to be at odds with each other?

Honestly...I haven't picked up a new Gibson that I've like in years. As someone said earlier, they are building their brand as a status symbol/ luxury item for baby-boomers with disposable income...and doing a very good job of it.

A

:horse :munch

[Gretschman]

I protest the Gibson marketing plan by buying fron Centre City music in San Diego . He is a great guy , Independent , has great prices and got screwed by Gibson as well .

The whole mass marketing stratagy , the back stabbing , and wholesale manufactureing of guitars that are mostly substandard has given people a reason to compete with Gibson and others like them .

Thats why there are so many new luthiers out there today makeing higher quality guitars and THERE ARE MORE EACH YEAR .

[Dylan61]

Did you guys notising the price drop of expensive models now and then?

Recently I saw ES335 going for $1499, Junior's $375, the ES175 $1250, I bought that last one.

Everybody rush to buy them for these prices as the think it was a mistake, but I realy wonder if it is..gess the market is looking for another price range.

[phretbored]

cant say im with ya on this one, while my gibsons, all newer, are awesome, i cant say that the guitars they are making now are better than what came out of the 50's era....

Gibson as well as other companies are making guitars as good as or better than the vintage stuff.
There is no magic.
The vintage guitars have been studied to death and yielded their secrets.
The vintage guitars built right were done by skilled craftsmen...the same as a skilled craftsman today building a quality instrument.
The vintage pieces do have the great old wood and that is the best part about them.

I have played some modern guitars by many of the todays name brand builders that sound, feel, and play absolutely amazing from the start.
They were built with great skill and knowledge.
After about 5-7 years of getting played they really open more and they have as much heart and soul and tone as any great vintage instrument.

FWIW the Gibson Custom Shop instruments I have or have owned were all amazing:
- Johnny A Signature stoptail....this is like a vintage instrument right out of the box and these just might be the best guitars they are building currently at the Custom Shop (its a keeper)
- Flying V Custom....outstanding tone and feel plus it looks stunning (its a keeper)
- '58 Les Paul Resissue Braz....incredible Les Paul tone, killer neck that plays like butter, tons of resonance, beautiful plaintop burst, and built as good as any high watermark from the past (traded for an equally incredible PRS as I am not really a fan of the Les Paul neck join...but damn LPs have the tone!)
- 1993 Reissue Les Paul....what a monster guitar, a Lester that I could shred on or play the blues or whatever, not the most desirable year for reissue but they still did it right as far as tone and feel! (sold because of the neck join)
- Pat Martino Signature....built very well and played great, maybe the maple top should/could be thinner?, also these are probably much better for clean jazz and I never used it for that and I would love to try out a few others for comparison (sold for another Gibson Custom Shop purchase)
- ES446....another fantastic design that they no longer make, outstanding tone and feel, the best trapeze tailpiece style guitar I have ever played, fully hollow with the bracing carved the top wood, as good as any vintage Gibson hollowbody (I had 3 of these and all were just amazing...will get another someday soon!)
- 336 and 356....have not owned one yet but every one that I have played was top notch, beautiful design, small hollowbody made from solid woods, the tone is superb! (356s have ebony boards so thats the one I really want)
- various '59 Les Paul resissues....the great ones that I have played are dynamite and they are just going to get better with age

[guitarist58]

Got a LP double cut from MF a while ago and sent it back--either it's Gibson's or MF's policy to sell what are obviously factory seconds as new, complete with "inspected by" tags inside :rolleyes: ... Saw a $3000+ LP "way up high" in a display at GC. Hopefully it was just "display only" as I could easily see the sanding scratches in (beneath) the finish--even from a distance. And I'm pretty sure it wasn't supposed to be some kind of "relic" version. I don't bother looking at Gibsons much anymore... although I kind of like my old '54 ES150.

[webe123]

That my good man, is a matter of opinion. One I don't share, and that's why I ditched my Gibsons (including my #1- a '58 Historic)...and went elsewhere.

Certainly their QC has improved, but I can buy a better guitar than they can cough up and do it with less cash out of my wallet as well. Another issue: Any company that HAS to buy a Plek machine to turn out quality fretwork is a company I can do without. PRS and Tom Anderson (just for starters) OTOH, have been doing this for years.

I won't touch another Gibson until Henry J has absolutely NOTHING to do with Gibson guitars...period.

Nothing personal to you Gibson Guitar fans here- remember, I am one too.

YMMV.

Well that is your opinion also! They do still make some decent guitars and they seemed to have fixed some of the QC issues they used to have in abundance....though I will not say that ALL the QC issues have been fixed at Gibson.

And this thread is not about what "X brand" guitar you can buy other than a Gibson, but it is about Gibson as a guitar company doing things that have ticked some customers off in the past.

But I agree about Henry J....the man would be better off stepping down and letting someone else take over the company. Though I seriously doubt that will ever happen!

[tmd187]

Well to conclude the venting and good stuff, I think most of us have realized that there are other companies out there putting out guitars that are equal to Gibsons, it's the truth, my Schecter plays better than any of my now gone Gibby's, and I bought 2 to equal one, so this says something about Gibson. I think they use poor wood for the body and fretboard, and their Customer Service is a f'n joke! Sad but True! I know alot of you are satisfied w/ your Gibby's and I'm happy, but I got a bunk ass ES-137 and I know others are too, so when it comes to buying a new guitar, Gibson doesn't even cross my mind. I have Schecter, Fender, Jackson, and many Luthiers that can build me what I want and need that will work for me. Sorry if any negativity was thrown out here, I just got back from the bar, hense I'm wasted!
Trav

[Dylan61]

Sound is what you buy from Gibson, beside there logo you get a $300 to $400 quaility guitar is my opinion.

I have a J45 and ES137, great sounding but compared to my Martin and Fender guitars they come not close in craftmenship.

But as my Guitar teacher say, its not there goal by Gibson to compare with others, they are on there own isle.

[jezzzz2003]

Fender slay Gibson when it comes to sales and marketing.

[Bloozman]

Gibson doesnt need to market like Fender does. Gibsons are the Cadillac of the 2, and Fender is a Chevy IMO. When you get into the Custom shop things can change cause you are dealing with specialty items. But for the non Custom shop product Gibson is hands above Fender in quality...again IMO.

[VoxFan]

I'm definitely no fan of Gibson these days. I am curious though. For those who are claiming that they are making great stuff in this day and age, what models are you playing. Maybe I've missed something.

I recently had the desire to add an SG to my stable. I went to a Guitar Center and tried several models including a new VOS model. They were all awful. No exaggeration. The wood did not resonate, the neck felt stiff, the materials felt cheap, the finish was too thick and the pickups just sounded ok. After I was done playing the new models and feeling depressed (I really wanted to like at least one of them) I turned around and saw a vintage 1962 Les Paul SG Jr. I picked it up and was blown away - the feel, the sound, the playability. It was incredible. There was NO comparison.

[fierce_carrot]

I've played Gibsons almost all my life and today they have nothing that interests me at all. The "historic" line is vastly overpriced joke. They are advertised as exact copies of the originals and yet everybody knows they aren't, one just has to visit the LPF to hear the discussions about changes from year to year.

I love my 81 LP Standard but there isn't much chance I'd ever buy a new Gibson.

[Heinz W]

I agree they're way overpriced, but my 2007 VOS R0 is a fantastic sounding, fantastic playing, and fantastic looking guitar. The Historics are killer in my book, worth every cent. I wouldn't even consider buying any non-CS Gibson, they just don't compare to the Historics IMO. Truly great guitars.
http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w39/_heinz_W/IMG_0138.jpg

[franksguitar]

I remember buying Gibsons in the 70's for prices less than you paid for Korean Epiphones today. Gibson has priced their new instruments so high, that vintage in some cases are cheaper. The only folks that mostly can afford them are Doctors and Lawyers that played in garage bands in their youth or kids today begging Daddy to buy it and then they lose interest. When prices for a decent axe are all above $1000 (cheapest) and up, Yes I have a few new ones, but it (figurtively) cost my first born or sell other axes to get it. I tend to buy used and broken in. When you see new Les Pauls going for up to 5 grand or more or 335's in the $2600+ range and the quality is no better. That's why I prefer PRS and I know what I'm paying for.

[daddyo]

Gibson doesnt need to market like Fender does. Gibsons are the Cadillac of the 2, and Fender is a Chevy IMO. When you get into the Custom shop things can change cause you are dealing with specialty items. But for the non Custom shop product Gibson is hands above Fender in quality...again IMO.

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129085

[kurtsstuff]

:horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse

[Crunchyriff]

Well that is your opinion also!

That's why I said "YMMV"

And this thread is not about what "X brand" guitar you can buy other than a Gibson, but it is about Gibson as a guitar company doing things that have ticked some customers off in the past.I understand that, and have stated just WHY I went elsewhere- because of things Gibson as a company HAS done, and HASN'T done in the last 6 years.

But I agree about Henry J....the man would be better off stepping down and letting someone else take over the company. Though I seriously doubt that will ever happen!Understatement of the year on both counts, IMHO... :munch

[justonwo]

:horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse :horse

+1 (or is that 12)

I think the guy that is beating the dead horse is now himself being beaten.

[fretnot]

In one of my grad school marketing classes, we had a discussion about Gibson. My professor explained that one of the best ways to make an item more prestigious and desirable is to do one simple thing...

Raise the price.

[Bluedawg]

I went to a Guitar Center




Like I said, how many "Gibsons sucks" posts include this phrase?


But when I hear about people buying or trying Gibsons at Center City, Wildwood, Willcutts, etc. The statistics are reversed. Most come away with a smile on their face.

:horse

[Bluedawg]

http://www.lespaulforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=129085


This is about the BFG model. It's purposely designed as an LP in the rough. :rolleyes:

[guitarist58]

This is about the BFG model. It's purposely designed as an LP in the rough. :rolleyes:

Including BROKEN nuts, and finish that rubs off on everything for $1,000??? I had no idea it was that bad...

[webe123]

I'm definitely no fan of Gibson these days. I am curious though. For those who are claiming that they are making great stuff in this day and age, what models are you playing. Maybe I've missed something.

I recently had the desire to add an SG to my stable. I went to a Guitar Center and tried several models including a new VOS model. They were all awful. No exaggeration. The wood did not resonate, the neck felt stiff, the materials felt cheap, the finish was too thick and the pickups just sounded ok. After I was done playing the new models and feeling depressed (I really wanted to like at least one of them) I turned around and saw a vintage 1962 Les Paul SG Jr. I picked it up and was blown away - the feel, the sound, the playability. It was incredible. There was NO comparison.

A 62 les paul SG Jr.against a brand new Gibson? No comparison between the two as far as I am concerned!

But to say you went to a Guitar Center to try out a Gibson, instead of going to Sweetwater or other dealers, makes your experience understandable.

It seems that Guitar Center is known for getting in factory seconds from Gibson. Because a lot of the horror stories you hear about the bad QC from Gibson products usually start with a person saying they "went to a Guitar Center".

You very rarely find a person saying he went to wildwood guitars or places like it and purchased a "bad" Gibson!

Though I too, would be VERY wary of buying a brand new Gibson myself. I will stick with used.

[Mr. Mandolin]

If it says gibson on the headstock then its a gibson! If they are stupid enough to sell any crap guitars with their name on the headstock then they deserve to get a bad rap for QC its that simple.

for the price they are asking for their stuff they have no right to then pass of crap to those not "in the know" about where to purchase.

[OldSchool]

No Toco Bell for me today...........it gives me the Gibsons...........:rolleyes:

[Robert1950]

WTF is up with Gibson? Easy,... this:

http://thumbs.photo.net/photo/5568689-sm.jpg

[frank62]

WTF is up with Gibson? Easy,... this:

http://thumbs.photo.net/photo/5568689-sm.jpg

This man saved a sinking ship. He is responsible for the fact Gibson is building the finest guitars in it's history. the TGP crowd is a tough one and i see page after page of members posting proud about their new Gibsons.

[loudboy]

It seems that Guitar Center is known for getting in factory seconds from Gibson. Because a lot of the horror stories you hear about the bad QC from Gibson products usually start with a person saying they "went to a Guitar Center".


Where did you hear this? I'm no fan of GC, but this sounds like a rumor to me.

GC probably sells 10x more Gibsons than all these other places combined... It wouldn't be smart business to give the junk to your best customer.

I would imagine it's a volume thing - when you sell that many, there's bound to be some clunkers here and there. It's that way with everything that's mass-produced, as well as most "boutique" products.

Also, figure in that GC doesn't have the staff available to make sure that each guitar is set up correctly, tned, god strings, etc. Little touches like that are the only reason that boutique dealers are still in business, IMHO.

Ask yourself this: When you call up a small dealer and ask him to "pick out a really good one for you," what do you think he does with all the other ones?

Correct answer: he sells them to someone else.

I'm sure that more people have had problems with a Sony TV they bought at Best Buy, compared to one they bought at a mom and pop store.

Loudboy

[phretbored]

I would imagine it's a volume thing - when you sell that many, there's bound to be some clunkers here and there. It's that way with everything that's mass-produced, as well as most "boutique" products.

There were some clunkers made by Gibson in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s.
They also produced many truly great instruments along the way.
Today they are putting out some fantastic product...at least from the Custom Shop.

[jda]

:horse :horse :horse :horse

[scottlr]

Many years ago, I was a supervisor at a factory that made foam armrests and computer trays. After inspecting a pile of very badly produced keyboard trays, and trashing most all of them, the owner of the factory came out and reamed me a new one! He then told me my job was to ship the worst quality product the customer would accept, and to get to know each customer and just how much crap they'd take before they made some noise.

I suspect that in the mass market guitar industry, this is pretty much the same. I love my Gibsons, and my LP in particular, came from Dave's back in 03, and he personally looked it over and gave it his approval before shipping it to me. It is a production Standard, and one of the nicest LPs I have ever owned. But if you look at the inspection tags on most new Gibsons I have seen, they have a line drawn through all of the inspection points. I am sure Gibson has to be ISO Certified, and THAT is a violation of ISO requirements. That inspection tag is supposed to be used, and the inspector is supposed to check off each item as they do the inspection. But what they are doing is giving it a quick once over, then drawing a line on that tag. Of course, they can keep doing it exactly like they do, and check off each individual item, giving no better inspection at all.

Will I buy a new Gibson again? Maybe. But I'll be cautious and do my own inspection.

[Crunchyriff]

This man saved a sinking ship. He is responsible for the fact Gibson is building the finest guitars in it's history. the TGP crowd is a tough one and i see page after page of members posting proud about their new Gibsons.Let's be more precise here. SLASH is who, primarily, made it cool & popular to play a Lester again near the end of the 80's- as much as I'm not a fan of G'nR; and more specifcally, did it with a Gibson COPY. I remember the time well. I had bought a 1986 LPC (black) with a Protector II Case, for $700 out the door at Spitzer's, brand-new. SEVEN HUNDERED BUCKS. This was at the same time a new company, PRS, was going public and garnering interest, and was charging $2k. You couldn't GIVE Lp's away. Two years later, LP's are now 'popular', top-hats are cool & people are wiggling like snakes; and the MSRP price literally overnight DOUBLED on Les Pauls.

Henry J may have had his head screwed on straight for a time when he first bought Gibson & seized the moment; but the fact is that the mkt is driven by the "star factor". If Slash hadn't made the LP hip & cool again, who knows where Gibson would be?

In the last few years, though Gibson's QC MAY have been improved, their business tactics have become absolutely pathetic.

Now I don't claim to be the sharpest pencil in the box, but I DO know this: You can only screw over so many folks before it comes around and bites you. ESPECIALLY when you are doing it to "your own". (ie clients and sellers)

[VoxFan]

Like I said, how many "Gibsons sucks" posts include this phrase?

But when I hear about people buying or trying Gibsons at Center City, Wildwood, Willcutts, etc. The statistics are reversed. Most come away with a smile on their face.

:horse

By your reasoning, should the vintage 1962 Junior also "suck" at Guitar Center? What is it at GC that makes their Gibsons suck so much? Seriously... can someone with factual information tell us why GC Gibsons would be inferior? I'm not trying to slam you. I personally think that the reason that there are so many posts stating that "Gibsons suck" is because Gibson is overall making an inferior product these days and a lot more people have access to GC than they do with the other shops you've mentioned. So it stands to reason that there are going to be a lot more people who have tried a Gibson at a GC - thus more opinions.

Another factor is that everyone has a different opinion on what is good or exceptional. Someone who has only played mass produced modern era Gibsons & Fenders may indeed think that Gibson is making an excellent product today. I don't think so, but others might.

[bluesmann]

aside from everything else, all gibsons, no matter how pricey, need a professional set up as soon as they come out of the box. they build a fine product, but don't bother to intonate it or file the nut slots so it stays in tune.

You forgot to add fret leveling and dressed etc.

[84Bravo]

You forgot to add fret leveling and dressed etc.

...and soldering. Half their stuff has cold joints. Really crappy wiring.

[Bluedawg]

By your reasoning, should the vintage 1962 Junior also "suck" at Guitar Center? What is it at GC that makes their Gibsons suck so much? Seriously... can someone with factual information tell us why GC Gibsons would be inferior? I'm not trying to slam you. I personally think that the reason that there are so many posts stating that "Gibsons suck" is because Gibson is overall making an inferior product these days and a lot more people have access to GC than they do with the other shops you've mentioned. So it stands to reason that there are going to be a lot more people who have tried a Gibson at a GC - thus more opinions.

Another factor is that everyone has a different opinion on what is good or exceptional. Someone who has only played mass produced modern era Gibsons & Fenders may indeed think that Gibson is making an excellent product today. I don't think so, but others might.


I guess you missed my earlier posts in this thread.

First of all Guitar Center and massive wharehouse retailers like MF are a common issue when I read about people who think NEW Gibsons suck. However, when I read about people who buy Gibsons from other shops such as those on listed at www.lespaulforum.com (http://www.lespaulforum.com/) there's the occasional gripe, but most of them are very happy with the Gibsons they bought or tried. It sure sounds to me like the smaller shops are doing something different than GC. In my experience the other shops actually do a QC check and a pro set up before they hang them in their shop and then do another set up to the customer's specs when they sell them. How many GCs do this?

I don't think it has to do with Gibson shipping their crap to GCs, but I do think it has to do with GC not doing crap to care for their stock. IMHO the retailer is an important part of the QC chain. If the retailer is not letting the manufacturer know when the products they receive are crap then how is the manufacturer supposed to even know when there's a problem?

Occasionally there are serious issues that are on the gripe list, the retailer should be the one who sends these back to Gibson if they can't fix them on site.

The vast majority of the Gibson gripes are about poor setups, dried out fingerboards, and other things that should have been caught and fixed easily by the retailer.

I've worked in a retail guitar store. I know what can happen to guitars if they hang in the store for long periods of time. Necks warp as they adjust to the local climate and then warp again with seasonal changes. Strings get old and the guitar sounds and plays like crap. When someone finally does get around to changing the strings they put 10s on a guitar that was set up for 9s, but no one adjusts the neck or checks to see if the nut is binding the heavier strings. etc. etc.

The guitar could have left the factory in perfect shape, but a cross country shipment and a few weeks or months in a wharehouse or retail store can reak havoc on some guitars. That's just the way it is.

Some of Gibsons issues also have to do with how they balance guitarists who like the newer way of doing things at places like PRS verses guitarists who want exact recreations of what Gibson built in the 50s. Gibson chose to lean towards the 50s way of doing things and that doesn't set well with some of the players who like things done in a more modern way.

I love the way Gibsons sound and the way they feel. That's just me. If you don't like the way they sound and play, that's cool. I also like PRS and own a few of those as well.

When I get a chance play other boutiques I take it and I've played some great ones, but I still like what I get from my Gibsons.

If a guitar plays and sounds great I'm not going to get my undies in a twist because there's a finish defect that shows up if I hold it up to a certain brand of flourescent light bulb at a precise 73 degree angle.

As for the 1962 Gibson, I was refering to new Gibsons, not vintage, but I'm sure that given enough time on a GC hanger and a few months of neglect some GCs could even make a vintage guitar suck.

This thread has gone through almost all of the phases of the standard Gibson sucks thread. The last and final phase is usually when someone suggests that Gibsons suck because some players prefer aftermarket pickups and pots to Gibsons stock electronics. So someone might as well pop up and say it so we can kill this thread. :rolleyes:

All IMHO of course.

:munch

[es125luv]

Did you guys notising the price drop of expensive models now and then?

Recently I saw ES335 going for $1499, Junior's $375, the ES175 $1250, I bought that last one.

...ES175 for $1250???

just wondering...