I am frustrated with my guitar lessons...

[watchingme]

I have been taking lessons for about 4 months. Each week all we do is go over theory, theory, and more theory. I pretty much could leave my guitar at home and it would never be missed.:messedup

I have no study material, I am just expected to sit there count up a scale, back down a few notes and "Name that Note". I asked for study materials but get nothing. I ordered Fretboard Logic, and Learning the Fretboard. I guess my logic is why am I paying a teacher if I am gonna have to teach myself??

I realize that learning theory is a part of learning to play the guitar, but
when do I get to learn to play the guitar:confused:

Something tells me this isn't exactly what lessons are supposed to be, but I would like some guitar teachers, or players to chime in here and help me to know what my expectations of a good guitar teacher should be.

Thanks

[willhutch]

Obviously, you'll have to make up your own mind as to whether or not you are getting your money's worth. Here's a couple things:

1) By learning theory, you learn how to teach yourself. Understanding intervals, chord construction, scales/modes will allow you to "crack the code". This info will allow to to understand what's happening in the music you are playing/hearing AND will help you communicate with other musicians. After your lessons are done, this will help you continue to grow.

2) "I guess my logic is why am I paying a teacher if I am gonna have to teach myself??"
You DO need to teach yourself. All a teacher can do is point the way, the student teaches himself.

$.02.

[Bryan T]

I realize that learning theory is a part of learning to play the guitar, but
when do I get to learn to play the guitar:confused:

My advice - convey that thought to your teacher. I teach about 15 students and they are all different. Some eat up the theory, some eat up the technical aspects of guitar playing, and some just want to play songs. Ultimately, I think it is all important, but the first two areas are where a teacher is very helpful. I also help in the third area, but my emphasis is on teaching the student how to learn songs on their own - reading music/tab, figuring out fingerings, practicing intelligently, etc. For a student like you, that is where I would shift my focus. Your teacher isn't a mind reader, so convey your frustration. If you have and the teacher hasn't explained his/her methods, then it might be time to find a new teacher.

Bryan

[wondermoose]

From my experience with teaching, I think it is important for a student to have a "fun" lesson at least once a month. I was lucky enough when I was younger to have a teacher that taught me to "solo" using theory and what not, but it is always nice to learn songs and tricks when using the guitar. It helps to keep you interested and lets you show other non-guitar people what you have learned.

[dkaplowitz]

I have no study material, I am just expected to sit there count up a scale, back down a few notes and "Name that Note". I asked for study materials but get nothing. I ordered Fretboard Logic, and Learning the Fretboard. I guess my logic is why am I paying a teacher if I am gonna have to teach myself??
He's not giving you any written material but only exercises like counting scales, or is he giving you no exercises to work on for the week at all? Like what's your lesson plan? And what do you review when you show up each week?

[yZe]

With all respect justly due to the original poster:

Is the instructor devoting 100% of the lesson to what you have described & 0% to rhythm guitar concepts, soloing concepts, etc .. ?

Are you exaggerating, or is the teacher really stuck in the kind of rut you described to where the entire lesson is that?

[watchingme]

NO, I am not exaggerating. Except for counting notes on the fretboard, I would not need my guitar. One time I strummed 4 chords in a 4 beat interval for about 5 minutes. That has been it for playing and technique. The rest of the time, I spend blindly trying to count up the notes to figure out what note a certain string and fret are.

If there was a lesson plan and continuity I could understand and learn theory better. Right now, I just feel like I have shown up after the punch line of a joke has been told.

I have already conveyed my concerns to him and nothing has changed.

That is why I was asking you guys if this is typical of lessons or am I expecting too much?

I am learning the notes (slowly) but it's hard to sit there trying to count up the notes when I don't seem to have any continuity from week to week.

[billm408]

Learning theory by itself isn't a bad thing. It opens up the fretboard and gives you options you never knew you had. But it's also the kind of thing that you can study and learn on your own to a large extent (Fretboard Logic comes to mind).

It's the practical application though that made everything else gel for me in lessons. I selected a couple of solos that I wanted to learn and as we worked through them, had to identify the modes/scales etc... as well as develop changes & options based on theory to rewite the solos. This approach helped me understand theory in a way that I could use it. Although I do recommend learning where the notes are on your guitar. Even just knowing where all of the E's & A's are, you'll never get lost.

[dkaplowitz]

That is why I was asking you guys if this is typical of lessons or am I expecting too much?

I am learning the notes (slowly) but it's hard to sit there trying to count up the notes when I don't seem to have any continuity from week to week.
What made you pick this guy in the first place? Does he play stuff you like? Is he cool?

If there's really no lesson plan, well, that can be bad. Learning those notes is pretty important, but it can be extremely boring if you do it for more than, say, 15 minutes without a break. Also, that kinda' stuff should be balanced with other things, like reading, learning new chords, learning how chords work, learning tunes, etc. etc. If you're not getting any of that, you might want to call around to other teachers. Sad thing is you'll have a hard time finding a good teacher anywhere, this is the case even when you're an advanced or intermediate player. And all teachers will present themselves as great teachers. But you have to ask some important questions and gauge their responses. If you need help with the questions to ask, post back and I'm sure you'll get some good ideas.

Best of luck!

Dave

[tonefingers]

I have been taking lessons for about 4 months. Each week all we do is go over theory, theory, and more theory. I pretty much could leave my guitar at home and it would never be missed.:messedup

I have no study material, I am just expected to sit there count up a scale, back down a few notes and "Name that Note". I asked for study materials but get nothing. I ordered Fretboard Logic, and Learning the Fretboard. I guess my logic is why am I paying a teacher if I am gonna have to teach myself??

I realize that learning theory is a part of learning to play the guitar, but
when do I get to learn to play the guitar:confused:

Something tells me this isn't exactly what lessons are supposed to be, but I would like some guitar teachers, or players to chime in here and help me to know what my expectations of a good guitar teacher should be.

Thanks
A good teacher will work on your interests.

Theory can be introduced through the back door later.

After four months you should have explored all your interests
and feel empowered.

Shop around.

[HarryJ]

Personally, I feel a good lesson should ride the fine line between what you need and what you want.
I suggest that you learn the neck so well that you floor him at your lesson, and see where the hell he takes you next.

HJ

[brad347]

I suggest that you learn the neck so well that you floor him at your lesson, and see where the hell he takes you next.

HJ

That's not bad advice.

he probably thinks he's doing you a favor by showing you all the stuff you NEED to know 'up front' to speed your learning process later.

This may or may not be wise on his part. It probably varies on a case-by-case basis.

Does the guy turn you on with his own music and/or ability to play the guitar? If so, then it might not be a bad idea to humor him for awhile, see what you can bring to the lessons rather than what you can take from it.

But frustration, if it sets in, is almost always counter-productive to learning, so....

Nobody knows the situation better than you! Hopefully we have shed as much light as possible given our limited understanding of the situation.

[Skip62]

I feel for ya. My first instructor was just a phenomal player, any genre, but the lessons were all theory. After 8 months I stopped and I continued to do the exercises and go over the theory he hammered with for 3 more years. I still couldn't play guitar. If you don't actually play the guitar, theory means NOTHING. You can teach someone just theory till they know it backward and forward, then put a guitar in there hands, they won't know what to do with it. If you put a guitar in someones hands, and teach them to play this and that with no theory, they will be able to play guitar. Theory can open doors, but it doesn't teach you guitar. Look at all the old blues players, they can play but most don't know much about theory.

Sorry for the rant, but that first instructor really turned me off. Great guy and we were friends, but that style of teaching didn't work for me. Maybe it does for some, but I can't rationalize it.

[yZe]

I have already conveyed my concerns to him and nothing has changed.

That is why I was asking you guys if this is typical of lessons or am I expecting too much? .

Yup, dump 'em

If he isn't teaching you rhythm styles and melodic concepts AS IT DIRECTLY APPLIES TO THE FRETBOARD within PRACTICAL musical situations - then he is NOT doing his job

Especially after you have given him a warning shot already

seems like he is happy going off in his own little world

The Wolf Marshall 8 DVD set would get you alot farther

Sorry if I haven't caught this yet, but how long have you been studying/playing OVERALL ?

[Red Suede]

tonefingers hit it on the head. You must have a reason to learn theory and it is music. You learn the theory to understand the tune. There must be a balance. I learned to read because of a transcription of "Kid Charlemagne" in a music publication. I sort of knew the solo by ear, but I was able to see the rhythms because of the transcription. Chicken (music) before the egg (theory) in my opinion.

[CHSU587]

I think it's really easy to say after learning theory that theory is one of the most important parts of being an excellent guitar player..but being a teacher myself I have to say that no, and I mean no, student wants to learn about majors and minors and notes of scales for 4 months! I don't really care if they're 5 or 50, but 4 months is little extreme.

That being said, I suggest you shop around like some other people have said. It took me a while to find a guitar teacher I really liked and I'm still friends with him to this day, he's shown me where to go and opened doors for me. I don't think it's a theory vs. no theory question, it's a question of...are you in awe of your teacher? Because you should be :)

[jspax7]

I think those of us who teach want all of our students to become musicians, but every student is an individual. The same approach doesn't work for everyone. There is the academic minded student who wants to study, and there are those recreational types who just want to have fun playing the guitar.

Communication is the key to knowing which approach will be effective. The student should be willing to trust the instructors judgement, and the instructor should strive to make the experience of learning enjoyable. (Are we having fun yet?)

A good instructor should try to find a balance, while emphasizing theory with examples and application. I give students creative exercises so they can hear the results. Once they understand the reason something works, and can apply concepts themselves, they want to learn more.

I would never overload, or overwhelm a student with too much theory. They have to demonstrate (on the instrument) that they can utilize simple concepts before digging deeper.

Compatibility is another component of the student/teacher relationship, and like any relationship, there are people who just don't work well together. Find someone you feel comfortable with. Learning music is a rewarding experience. It should also be a pleasant one.

[BluezHound]

I think those of us who teach want all of our students to become musicians, but every student is an individual. The same approach doesn't work for everyone. There is the academic minded student who wants to study, and there are those recreational types who just want to have fun playing the guitar.

Communication is the key to knowing which approach will be effective. The student should be willing to trust the instructors judgement, and the instructor should strive to make the experience of learning enjoyable. (Are we having fun yet?)

A good instructor should try to find a balance, while emphasizing theory with examples and application. I give students creative exercises so they can hear the results. Once they understand the reason something works, and can apply concepts themselves, they want to learn more.

I would never overload, or overwhelm a student with too much theory. They have to demonstrate (on the instrument) that they can utilize simple concepts before digging deeper.

Compatibility is another component of the student/teacher relationship, and like any relationship, there are people who just don't work well together. Find someone you feel comfortable with. Learning music is a rewarding experience. It should also be a pleasant one.I hear you mate. And last wednesday my teacher took off the training wheels finally I'm talking about not finger numbering over the chords. and he has stated it's time I become a real musician even though I know music threoy. And hes so right.

[KRosser]

I have been taking lessons for about 4 months. Each week all we do is go over theory, theory, and more theory. I pretty much could leave my guitar at home and it would never be missed.:messedup

I have no study material, I am just expected to sit there count up a scale, back down a few notes and "Name that Note". I asked for study materials but get nothing. I ordered Fretboard Logic, and Learning the Fretboard. I guess my logic is why am I paying a teacher if I am gonna have to teach myself??

I realize that learning theory is a part of learning to play the guitar, but
when do I get to learn to play the guitar:confused:

Something tells me this isn't exactly what lessons are supposed to be, but I would like some guitar teachers, or players to chime in here and help me to know what my expectations of a good guitar teacher should be.

Thanks

You're leaving some important information out - 1) what did you approach him about, originally, and 2) Do you have any of that stuff he's asking for down, like it's second nature, by now?

Not taking sides - I don't know you or your teacher, but it would seem to me that after four months of working on it, you should have it down to the point where if I were your teacher I'd say we were ready to move on and it would be his fault if you're not. Unless you were still scuffling with it - then it's your fault you're not. And, I do believe a good teacher teaches you how to teach yourself.

When I used to teach privately, every so often I'd get a student that would ask for stuff, and I'd give him something to work on at home, and he'd come back and it wouldn't be down yet. I'd explain that in order to go to the next step this really needed to be down, and I'd get some excuse and some impatient grousing, so I'd show him the next step anyway, along with a home assignment, he'd come back and neither one would be down yet. Then, when I would devote the third lesson to putting him through what he should have been working on at home, he cancels the lessons because I'm just not giving him what he wants.

Oy....

Plus, there's a time when every student/teacher relationship runs its course. Maybe you're there (but only if you've got all that stuff down!). I think you should have several good teachers, and the more disparate thier methods the better.

[gennation]

I have been taking lessons for about 4 months. Each week all we do is go over theory, theory, and more theory. I pretty much could leave my guitar at home and it would never be missed.:messedup

I have no study material, I am just expected to sit there count up a scale, back down a few notes and "Name that Note". I asked for study materials but get nothing. I ordered Fretboard Logic, and Learning the Fretboard. I guess my logic is why am I paying a teacher if I am gonna have to teach myself??

I realize that learning theory is a part of learning to play the guitar, but
when do I get to learn to play the guitar:confused:

Something tells me this isn't exactly what lessons are supposed to be, but I would like some guitar teachers, or players to chime in here and help me to know what my expectations of a good guitar teacher should be.

Thanks

Well, Fretboard Logic AND Learning the Fretboard are theories/concepts/methods based on ways to learn the fretboard.

Music Theory is theories/concepts/methods based on understand/comprehending/communicating MUSIC.

You can go either route, but the outcome should be the second one for sure. FL will teach you Patterns show you around the fretboard, Music Theory shows you around MUSIC.

Don't fight it, MUSIC is the end point you want to strive for. Doesn't mean you can't become a great player without it, but it'll give you access to great things that the concepts can show you.

Now, if you want some cool stuff to play that doesn't involve theory, or may lead you to theory's applications, come visit the On Topic Section of my lesson site: http://lessons.mikedodge.com

I know I can show you some great application ideas that you may not get from too many teachers.

Good luck and remember MUSIC is the bottom line, regardless of the theories, but there's also a LOT of music in theories, since it's a way of communicating some great stuff.

[watchingme]

I approached him about learning to play the guitar. He has been playing and teaching for a long time and seemed to give the impression that theory and technique were equally worked on.

I am 43 years old, I have a family, job,etc and this is strictly recreational for me. I can read music and know the notes, etc and I can figure them out on the fretboard (SLOWLY). He thinks after 4 months no matter how he counts up a scale or dissects a chord that I should be able to instantly recognize it.

Sorry, but that isn't happening. If I were a teenager and had hours and hours to spend in my room pouring over each nuance of every chord it would be different. I can usually dedicate 30-45 minutes for practice a day. Maybe more some days but not everyday.

I already explained to him that I need to be taught differently. I told him I wanted some sheets to study, and that I needed to be able to write down what we were going over so I could digest it better later. NO GO. This week he told me not to write anything down, I should be able to just "Know" it.Each week, we start at a different place. There is no "OK, let's go over what we talked about last week" I just feel like I came in a movie theatre in the middle of a movie (and each week it is a different movie).

Unfortunately, where I live isn't a big place, so there aren't that many guitar teachers out there.

[usc96]

My instructor gives me a little theory, especially when I ask questions, but my instructor's main objective, because I requested it, was to get me out playing live.

I'm about the same age as my instructor so he knows my familiarity with the music we both grew up listening to. Just the other day he was showing me a riff, and we started laughing about all the musicians from the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's who incorporated it into their music.

Maybe you need to take more control of your studies. I learn as much or more each week doing self study. You Tube, tabs, music books, friends and just playing around. I practice an hour a day, but only spend 30 min a week in class. I usually don't mention my outside learning in class unless I need help, or he asks, probably because I really wan't to learn something new from him. Occasionally my instructor will introduce a new song, and I'll already be able to play it. Those times are great because he can give me some pointers on how to take it to the next level.

My message, beef up on the self study or explain to your instructor what you need.

[usc96]

I am 43 years old, I have a family, job,etc and this is strictly recreational for me.

Sounds like we are at a similar point in our lives. I'm a little younger (37), but have 3 kids, a successful business will close to 100 people working for me, all the other things that come with life at that age.

Seriously, you may need to get with an instructor who is on the same page with you. Also, go to you tube and type in the name of a band you like and the word "lesson." In the last two weeks I've taught myself "Sweet Home Alabama" and the first half of "Panama" that way. :AOK

[watchingme]

Now, if you want some cool stuff to play that doesn't involve theory, or may lead you to theory's applications, come visit the On Topic Section of my lesson site: http://lessons.mikedodge.com

I know I can show you some great application ideas that you may not get from too many teachers.

Good luck and remember MUSIC is the bottom line, regardless of the theories, but there's also a LOT of music in theories, since it's a way of communicating some great stuff.[/quote]

Thanks Mike. Your lesson give me a good starting point with continuity so I can begin to see the bigger picture.

[Swain]

Why don't you start a thread that mentions the city you live in, and asks for everyone on TGP that lives in that area to contact you if they're an instructor, or know of one?

You wouldn't have to be so specific, as to give your personal info over TGP. Just the city.

I bet that there's someone "lurking" on TGP that could help you.

Also, I got Doug Doppler's DVD, "Diatonic Theory And Harmony". It's not for a beginner. But, if you know a little, it could be a great workout for you. At least, while you're looking for an instructor.

The other option I see, is to find a good player who is not necessarily an instructor. Ask them to show you some songs, and strums. It may not be ideal. But, it may make guitar more fun for you, again.

[SkyDogs]

I had a teacher just like that. He was a really cool guy, young, and graduated from Berklee.

I took lessons with him for a year and a few months. This guy was a fantastic guitar player, extremely knowledgable with theory, and just an overall classy musician.

However he wasn't a good teacher.

My favorite parts of the lesson was when he would have me solo while he played. I felt that the advice he gave after I played was great. However we quickly moved into all kinds of theory, passing through modes and scales before I was even comfortable with them.

We learned the Dorian mode, but before I was fully comfortable with it, we were off to the Lydian. I was only 15-16 at the time, so I just went with it.

I have been playing/learning by myself for the past 10 months, and although I don't know as much theory as I could, I have learned stuff through PLAYING. I find that when I discover through playing, that it sticks much better.

You're playing an instrument, not studying calculus. I feel that the emphasis should be on playing first, theory later.

[tonefingers]

Sure, the teachers heart is most likely in the right place

Most teachers do mean well.

Ultimately, the student must be the one
that chooses the paths. They need to always be
responsible when it comes to teachers.

Not all guitarists teach well.
A teachers job is simple, communicate clearly.

I believe in minimal verbage and ideas that graduate
and evolve and connect.

Also behavior modification.
I only reinforce positive achievement.
After acknowledgment of a mistake, my job is to
redirect the student back on the path forward
with a solution.
The negative reinforcement is to allow a mistake
to continue and not 'fix' it. This is what creates that
"I'm stuck and can't get to the next level" thing
I hear so much.

Not all guitarists know how to teach redirection
and how to not react to negative situations.

Many guitarists teach to their strengths and are not
flexable or are able to be directed by the student.
-That's what a teacher does.

There are as many types of guitar teachers as there are people.

shop around.

[brad347]

Teaching is hard. I don't feel i'm very good at it. So I haven't done it in a long time.

Often when gaining some new knowledge, it takes time to assimilate it.

Usually a week isn't enough time.

I would like to teach a kid the dorian or lydian mode, or whatever concept, and say "come back when you're ready" or "come back when you want more."

But the problem is, it doesn't work that way. They will come back every week no matter what. You will be expected to show them something new because, well, that's what they pay you for.

There's pressure on them to 'get it' and get it maybe faster than is natural for them, and there's pressure on you to 'progress.' There's also pressure on them (self-imposed or parent-imposed) to 'progress.'

Too damn much pressure for me! :)

In a way these internet forums are more natural to me. Someone asks a question and if I feel I have something to contribute, I say something. Then they can come back and ask more in 5 minutes or 5 months.

Now if someone could only figure out a way that this would make money...

at any rate, that's why I avoid teaching private lessons anymore if I can help it. It's been about 5 years now.