Optimum Tilt Back Angle for a Combo?

[mgarrison99]

I just bought a pair of tilt back legs for my Carvin Bel Air. Does anyone know the proper tilt back angle for me to set these legs? I read a thread on a CRATE VT series, and it mentioned 40 degrees. If anyone out there has some on their combo, maybe just a quick measurement from the floor to the bottom front lip of the amp and the amp width will help me. I can do the math. Thanks.

[ClinchFX]

I just bought a pair of tilt back legs for my Carvin Bel Air. Does anyone know the proper tilt back angle for me to set these legs? I read a thread on a CRATE VT series, and it mentioned 40 degrees. If anyone out there has some on their combo, maybe just a quick measurement from the floor to the bottom front lip of the amp and the amp width will help me. I can do the math. Thanks.

I've always taken the attitude that you tilt the amp back until it is pointing at your ears and not your ankles, so you can hear what you're playing without blowing the rest of the band off the stage.:rolleyes: Therefore the angle depends on how far you stand from your amp. I can't see why there should be a "correct" angle for the best sound, because it will depend on too many other variables including distance from the nearest wall, carpet or solid floor, ceiling height etc etc.

Peter.

[John Phillips]

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I've always taken the attitude that you tilt the amp back until it is pointing at your ears and not your ankles, so you can hear what you're playing without blowing the rest of the band off the stage.:rolleyes: Therefore the angle depends on how far you stand from your amp. I can't see why there should be a "correct" angle for the best sound, because it will depend on too many other variables including distance from the nearest wall, carpet or solid floor, ceiling height etc etc.
I agree, except that I prefer the speaker to be pointing at my guitar (waist height) not my ears - it seems to provide the best correlation between what it sounds like next to the amp, and out front - and makes controlled feedback (if you use that) much more controllable at lower volume. Pointing the amp directly at your ears at short range makes it sound much too strident and harsh, and if you EQ it so it then sounds good like that to you, it will usually be lost out-front - even if it's mic'ed, unless the mic is right over the center of the speaker, since that's mostly what you hear when it's pointing straight at you. (Most soundmen prefer to mic further out from the center, exactly for that reason.)

Consquently I much prefer to raise my amp, not tilt it. That way it's always pointing in the right direction and not dependent on my distance from it, and it's isolated from floor reflection and much less affected by differences in the room acoustics too.

IMO the tilt-back legs, cool as they look, were not one of Leo's best ideas.

[ClinchFX]

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Consquently I much prefer to raise my amp, not tilt it. That way it's always pointing in the right direction and not dependent on my distance from it, and it's isolated from floor reflection and much less affected by differences in the room acoustics too.

Completely agree, I ended up making my son an amp stand similar to one of those folding X shaped keyboard stands, but using heavier steel. That got away from most proximity/reflection effects because the stand had such a small surface area.

I was being just a little facetious with the comment about pointing it at your ears.:rolleyes: I apologize for that.

Peter.

[Mike9]

I use an amp stand and it's angled, but since I'm using a head & 1x12 cab I put a piece of 1x4 under the back feet so it sits upright, but off the floor about waist height.

[KLB]

Tilting an amp back traps the heat from the tubes and transformers.
You may want to add a cooling fan.

Bass response is also reduced from less coupling with the floor.

[walterw]

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I agree, except that I prefer the speaker to be pointing at my guitar (waist height) not my ears - it seems to provide the best correlation between what it sounds like next to the amp, and out front - and makes controlled feedback (if you use that) much more controllable at lower volume. Pointing the amp directly at your ears at short range makes it sound much too strident and harsh, and if you EQ it so it then sounds good like that to you, it will usually be lost out-front - even if it's mic'ed, unless the mic is right over the center of the speaker, since that's mostly what you hear when it's pointing straight at you. (Most soundmen prefer to mic further out from the center, exactly for that reason.)

Consquently I much prefer to raise my amp, not tilt it. That way it's always pointing in the right direction and not dependent on my distance from it, and it's isolated from floor reflection and much less affected by differences in the room acoustics too.

IMO the tilt-back legs, cool as they look, were not one of Leo's best ideas.

funny, i've always thought the tilt-back legs were genius, because not only did they allow the player to hear himself, they did so without losing all the bottom end by lifting it off the floor, and without presenting the "death-beam" into the front row from a raised-up straight-facing amp.

not only that, it had the added advantage for the singing guitar player of bleeding into his vocal mic, but not when he was singing, sort of an automatic mixing for minimal p.a. setups.

on top of that, in typical clubs, the "beam" from the angled-up speakers would bounce off the ceiling and back down into the crowd as well (minus all the treble), providing added coverage without excessive piercing volume.

this all would combine to put the guitar "everywhere", without making it too loud "anywhere".

oh, and +1 on aiming the amp at your guitar for maximum interaction.

[mgarrison99]

Interesting feedback. Thanks. I have an amp stand as well, and was just exploring the use of tiltback legs, as that system seems to be more transportable. However, the floor reflection, etc. seems to make a difference based on what system you use. I'll try it both ways in my rehearsal space, and judge the sound both from the guitarist and audience perspective. I'm not a gigging musician, so I'm tilting it back so I can hear more of the pure speaker sound and not just the peripheral tones. Any more feedback would be beneficial to me as well as others. Thanks.

[impactblue]

Why is it that with the amp aimed directly at the ears...there's alot more piercing treble???

Imo +1 on aiming the ampa t about guitar level...has the best tone without sounding scooped or piercing..

[John Phillips]

Why is it that with the amp aimed directly at the ears...there's alot more piercing treble???Because due to the poor high frequency response of the fairly thick and soft paper cone, almost all the treble comes from the center cap directly over the voice coil. This is also in the middle of effectively a wide 'horn' enclosure (the rest of the cone) so the treble response is then very directional and concentrated into a narrow beam directly in line with the center of the speaker.

[impactblue]

Gotcha....

So in order to obtain the same tone when recording, I'd mic off axis??

[John Phillips]

Yes, exactly. Most recording engineers will mic somewhere over the flat section of the cone, about halfway from the center cap to the edge, and sometimes off-axis (ie the mic not pointing 'straight-on' to the speaker movement). The closer you mic, the more critical the placement becomes, and even moving the mic half an inch can sometimes make a big difference.

I actually prefer to mic a bit further away than I would for live reinforcement - not right on the grille, but a foot or so away - so the exact placement isn't as fussy. I also like to mix that with a second mic much further away and not in line with the speakers - more where you would stand to listen to it, so the mic 'hears' more or less what you do. That would sound as if it should be the 'best' position, but actually it usually sounds a bit too diffuse to sit well in a mixed track, so I like to use the closer mic for the directness and punch, and have the distant mic mixed in at a lower level to add more of the 'cab' tone. In theory you should need to worry about the time delay between the two (about 1mS per foot), but in fact I just think it makes the sound more complex and natural. I use a SM57 for the close mic and a good vocal-type condenser for the distant one.

Live is totally different - you're just trying to get the maximum level to the desk with the minimum spill from other sounds, so a 57 right on the speaker is fine. It seems to sound better if you have to take top-end off at the desk rather than add it, so closer to the center of the cone (though not usually right over the cap) and on-axis usually sounds best.