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View Full Version : Best fuzz for Black Sabbath tones? (the first album)


73171
05-24-2007, 10:02 AM
Any ideas?

carlygtr56
05-24-2007, 10:06 AM
It's not a fuzz.
It's a treble booster.

riffpowers
05-24-2007, 10:07 AM
I like the D*A*M red rooster for that sound.

dorfmeister
05-24-2007, 10:29 AM
http://www.vintagetoneproject.com/images/custom1largeweb.jpgThis might just be exactly what you are looking for:

http://www.vintagetoneproject.com/custom1.htm

riffpowers
05-24-2007, 10:59 AM
I also had the BSM RM Metal, which absolutely nailed paranoid tones.

jdawg666
05-24-2007, 11:06 AM
I know it's a treble booster for Sab, but I've been getting good results emulating the Fairies Wear Boots tone with a PE Yardbox.

VanStone
05-24-2007, 12:48 PM
I'm a huge Iommi / Sabbath fan, and I use a Catalinbread SCOD (yes, I know, it's an overdrive not a treble booster or a fuzz) into a Marshall style amp for that tone.

Definitely the closest thing I've heard short of actually smacking a cranked Orange/Laney stack with a treble booster.

V

RickC
05-24-2007, 04:16 PM
This was one of my revelations when I got my Element 32 treble booster; Iommi tone just popped out, effortlessly.

/rick

Pentode
05-24-2007, 04:49 PM
The VTP is modeled on the modded RM used on the first album.


http://www.vintagetoneproject.com/images/custom1largeweb.jpgThis might just be exactly what you are looking for:

http://www.vintagetoneproject.com/custom1.htm

JLee
05-24-2007, 05:14 PM
The VTP is modeled on the modded RM used on the first album.
1st album is a stock Rangemaster. Wasn't till the 2nd album that the Rangemaster was modified.

rocky101
05-24-2007, 05:57 PM
http://www.vintagetoneproject.com/images/custom1largeweb.jpgThis might just be exactly what you are looking for:

http://www.vintagetoneproject.com/custom1.htm

Are these even available. The website says "one of a Kind"

Pentode
05-24-2007, 06:12 PM
1st album is a stock Rangemaster. Wasn't till the 2nd album that the Rangemaster was modified.

That is incorrect according to Vintage Tone Project. To quote from the description....

"The Dark 1971 One of a Kind Collectors Pedal is a specially modded Range Voodoo pedal designed to perfectly replicate the sound of Toni Iommi's specially tweaked Dallas Arbiter Rangemaster used on Sabbath's first album."

JLee
05-24-2007, 09:22 PM
That is incorrect according to Vintage Tone Project. To quote from the description....

"The Dark 1971 One of a Kind Collectors Pedal is a specially modded Range Voodoo pedal designed to perfectly replicate the sound of Toni Iommi's specially tweaked Dallas Arbiter Rangemaster used on Sabbath's first album."
According to Iommi, the Rangemaster wasn't modified until after the recording of the self titled album. SG with P90s(Strat on Wicked World), Laney Supergroup, Rangemaster and a Colorsound Wah. Kind of odd that VTP named the pedal the "1971". He's off a year there...:rolleyes:

NWOBHM
06-02-2007, 12:53 PM
There regular range voodoo sounded better to me then the 1971 soundclips.

mtlin
06-02-2007, 01:08 PM
According to Iommi, the Rangemaster wasn't modified until after the recording of the self titled album. SG with P90s(Strat on Wicked World), Laney Supergroup, Rangemaster and a Colorsound Wah. Kind of odd that VTP named the pedal the "1971". He's off a year there...:rolleyes:

How did Iommi ever get such a big low end using a stock treble booster?

carltonh
06-02-2007, 03:40 PM
How did Iommi ever get such a big low end using a stock treble booster?
Probably the combination of using mainly a neck humbucker and .08 gauge strings with everything else mentioned above.

The Tonefactor Hellbilly is great for all Sabbath era sounds, if you can find one.

teleblaster
06-02-2007, 05:20 PM
How did Iommi ever get such a big low end using a stock treble booster?He probally had his treble boost modified to his guitar pickups alot of people overlook that factor:jo

JLee
06-02-2007, 08:21 PM
How did Iommi ever get such a big low end using a stock treble booster?
I don't find Iommi's tone all that low end heavy. I think Geezer's responsible for that more than Iommi.

Masa
06-02-2007, 08:44 PM
I don't find Iommi's tone all that low end heavy. I think Geezer's responsible for that more than Iommi.

+1, if you're talking about the early tone.

mtlin
06-02-2007, 09:30 PM
I don't find Iommi's tone all that low end heavy. I think Geezer's responsible for that more than Iommi.

I would not say that it is low end heavy, but a stock Rangemaster will chop off all the low end.

kgmessier
10-10-2008, 10:15 AM
I'm resurrecting this old thread because I'm trying to understand the classic Sabbath/Iommi tone better. If I'm not mistaken, he was using an SG with P-90s into a treble boost, then into 100W Laney heads. Is that correct? Can anyone tell me more about those Laneys? I'm curious about the circuitry and what kind of tubes. I don't know if they were 6L6s or EL34sor something else altogether.

Thoughts?

- Keith

Jet Bycraft
10-10-2008, 10:50 AM
Look no further. This unit has that tone...

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d183/jetbycraft/pdi-1.jpg

Here's a link...http://www.silvermachine.de/

Jim Jones
10-10-2008, 11:40 AM
I'm resurrecting this old thread because I'm trying to understand the classic Sabbath/Iommi tone better. If I'm not mistaken, he was using an SG with P-90s into a treble boost, then into 100W Laney heads. Is that correct? Can anyone tell me more about those Laneys? I'm curious about the circuitry and what kind of tubes. I don't know if they were 6L6s or EL34sor something else altogether.

Thoughts?

- Keith

Laneys of the period are virtually identical to plexi Marshalls. The Partridge trannies would be the main difference. EL34s were the British power tube of choice for the majority of amps 50 watts and up.

Jim

Strat58
10-10-2008, 11:44 AM
Hmm didn't Tommi tuned to D that would give massive dark sound.
Peace Strat58

kgmessier
10-10-2008, 12:06 PM
C#, quite often.

recto-robbie
10-10-2008, 12:40 PM
maybe not for the first album sound but the Subdecay Blackstar to me sounds like Sabbath. Every time I turn that thing on I want to play sabbath. Its an OD and slight fuzz in the same box.
Very nice pedal indeed.

Jim Jones
10-10-2008, 12:49 PM
As far as I know the down-tuning didn't start until Master of Reality in 1971. Those first two albums sound plenty heavy even in standard tuning, but the sludge really started to happen with the C# stuff.

Jim

H.P. Lovecraft
10-11-2008, 12:46 PM
The new Way Huge Swollen Pickle

Lightningrt
10-13-2008, 10:04 AM
I have an old music magazine from 1973 which has an advert for Laney Klipp amps with Tony endorsing them. I also know that he used to plug into the Bass channel of the Laneys he used on the earlier albums, which is why the RM doesn't sound so trebly.

The Groundhogs used to use them too - their album Live at Leeds shows them with a Cry Baby and Fuzz Face to good effect, which reminds me very much of the sort of sounds Tony was getting.

This link shows a couple of them, plus some absolutely gorgeous other 1970's amps.

http://www.twotribesmusic.co.uk/cgi-bin/inventory/twotribesmusic/inventory.pl?action=list&listcat=Guitar%20Amps

Truly amp porn!

Bernie J
10-13-2008, 10:25 AM
What about the tone on 'Past Lives' (Live in '75)? I always thought warpigs sounded amazing on that one...

Sterling#Sound
12-07-2008, 02:37 PM
The original tone on the first album was from a 50w Laney pre-Supergroup (the one built before Laney added the Supergroup). Actually some people call it the pre-pre-Supergroup because it had an aluminum chassis (circa '68), I have a pre-Supergroup which is steel chassis. The amp is 4*EL34 and has the Partridge transformers. The build is pretty similar to a Marshall plexi, with a few value changes here and there but nothing spectacular. An amp tech who revised my amp said it was probably a bit dirtier sounding than a Marshall (bit more gain) but then bass input is probably what matters most for the Sabbath tone since that is what Iommi plugged into. My 100w actually measured as a clean 120w but I heard that's not uncommon.

The Laney on 10 with the treble, mid and presence on 10 already gives you a close Sabbath sound from the first album. Adding the first generation treble booster like a Rangemaster (copy) takes you all the way there. It's almost too much gain in fact. I'm wondering whether Iommi used a Treble booster on the first album at all but I heard that's what he did.

The Gibson SG with a P90 pickup takes you another step closer to the sound. You can also take a Strat for the Wicked World tone but it just goes to show that single coils work perfectly with Treble boosters. The great thing is not just to have all things on ten but to play with the volume knob on the guitar as this is what gives Iommi's dynamics... .on 2 for clean guitar with a nice bright presence and 7-8 for some rythmn backing Ozzy, then on 10 for lead and solos.

Something that is very important for the Sabbath sound are the cabs and speakers. The first few albums I think were just stock 100w Laney LB100 4x12 cabs. These came with a mixture of speakers either Goodmans or Fanes but I guess Fanes define the Sabbath sound, with a slightly scooped mid sound.

During the Paranoid album he used an SG custom (the white one) which made the sound a bit more middy in my opinion but still good. The absolute bone-crushing favourite sound I like is the Sabbath Bloody Sabbath sound. Just those a National Acrobat/Killing yourself to live sounds are beyond stunning. For these tones my guess Iommi experimented more with different speakers (heavy-duty JBLs), changed treble booster, high output humbuckers on his SG special and probably a lot more gain from his modded Laneys. Don't forget the studio mic-ing made a big change too....

Don't forget light strings (008), downpicking chords, using loads of powerchords high up on the low e-string but also the very prominent open-D and open-A chords.

somedude
12-07-2008, 02:49 PM
What about the tone on 'Past Lives' (Live in '75)? I always thought warpigs sounded amazing on that one...

I love that tone.

From what I've been able to find out, it's just his regular rig with the addition of some sort of tape delay (think I was told an EP-1). I think one of the secrets to the 'bigness' is that he runs multiple amps, and I don't think all of them are fed the treble booster.

The Guy
12-07-2008, 02:53 PM
Any ideas?

there is a "coolest small amp" thread posted right now where i put up a pic of an old ric ace. put a treble booster in front of that with my SG, and its the wizard all effin' day! :dude

jimmycupo
12-07-2008, 03:45 PM
Look into a swart atomic boost,keeley jave,analogman beano,flynn tb!!

josh27
12-07-2008, 04:12 PM
I can get pretty close with bridge pickup and distortion+

sixty2strat
12-07-2008, 08:17 PM
never tried to get the sabbath tone but bought a beano boost after reading about them, got it home and cranked my jmp 50 watter with g12H cab and channels jumped . Iexpected a mayhall tone but really with my LP I heard a Iommi sound, so by accident i am sure its El34 amn a Tb of some type

superswede
03-26-2009, 05:53 AM
I got an old Aria Super Fuzz Sustainer. A few days ago I let my 10 year old son play with it in his cheapo Kustom amp with Eastone strat. He said: "this sounds exactly like Paranoid"

ReginaldBisquet
03-26-2009, 08:40 AM
As much as I complain about it, the Death By Audio "Fuzz War" pedal is (essentially) the Master of Reality LP in a metal box. I freaking love it... but the early versions have a significant volume drop when engaged. Newer versions correct this issue... I'm supposed to be receiving a new version from DBA in a few weeks. Hoping for the best because I really love this pedal's tones.

jcs
03-26-2009, 09:32 AM
i own a 65 sg special that has been slightly routed in the bridge position so i have used p90s and assorted humbuckers in that position.

this guitar played up the neck on the low e for powerchords pretty much gets the early sounds thru my 71 smallbox 50 or carlsbro 60tc.

some folks i hear are using a bit too much gain if you compare the tone directly with the studio records though i tend to dig a lot of the fuzzier overdubbed stuff on sabotage too,pretty gainy tones there for sure!

LowWatt
03-26-2009, 11:13 AM
I'm a huge Iommi / Sabbath fan, and I use a Catalinbread SCOD (yes, I know, it's an overdrive not a treble booster or a fuzz) into a Marshall style amp for that tone.

Definitely the closest thing I've heard short of actually smacking a cranked Orange/Laney stack with a treble booster.

V

Totally agree. The best way is a treble booster into a stack that's already pushing some air, but if you are trying to fake it at a manageable volume, nothing does it better than tuning down a little and going through a SCOD. It really does naturally sound like an overdriven stack that's being hit with a treble booster.

matchless
03-26-2009, 11:54 AM
I read an interview where Iommi stated he used his strat on the 1st Sabbath album,sg's generally afterwards

kgmessier
03-26-2009, 12:18 PM
I read an interview where Iommi stated he used his strat on the 1st Sabbath album,sg's generally afterwards

According to information from Iommi's website (http://www.iommi.com/equipment/fender_stratocasters.htm), he used the Strat on only one track of that first album: "Wicked World."

Mr. Kite
03-26-2009, 01:25 PM
According to information from Iommi's website (http://www.iommi.com/equipment/fender_stratocasters.htm), he used the Strat on only one track of that first album: "Wicked World."
That is a cool read, thanks!

kgmessier
03-26-2009, 01:27 PM
That is a cool read, thanks!

High five!

Purple
03-26-2009, 01:29 PM
I used a Strat, Java Boost, Dirty Little Secret, and a Princeton on 2 for this version of Wicked World:

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=7411183&q=hi

kgmessier
03-26-2009, 02:03 PM
I used a Strat, Java Boost, Dirty Little Secret, and a Princeton on 2 for this version of Wicked World:

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=7411183&q=hi

That is an absolutely FANTASTIC version, my friend! Never heard of the Dirty Little Secret. I'm guessing that's the same as DLS, yes? If so, which DLS effect is it?

- Keith

Purple
03-26-2009, 02:09 PM
That is an absolutely FANTASTIC version, my friend! Never heard of the Dirty Little Secret. I'm guessing that's the same as DLS, yes? If so, which DLS effect is it?

- Keith

Dirty Little Secret is by Catalinbread... there's a bunch of threads here about it.

Thanks for listening!

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/kittycaster/Emoticons/thhug.gif

kgmessier
03-26-2009, 02:18 PM
Dirty Little Secret is by Catalinbread... there's a bunch of threads here about it.

Thanks for listening!

http://i155.photobucket.com/albums/s297/kittycaster/Emoticons/thhug.gif

Ah, I follow. So the amp itself is clean (vol=2), and you get the dirt from the combination of the Java Boost and Dirty Little Secret? I love the tone; chops are fantastic.

Purple
03-26-2009, 02:25 PM
Ah, I follow. So the amp itself is clean (vol=2), and you get the dirt from the combination of the Java Boost and Dirty Little Secret? I love the tone; chops are fantastic.

Yeah, exactly! :AOK

Thanks a lot! :dude

Carlocki
07-29-2012, 08:09 AM
http://www.buyanalogman.com/Analog_Man_Sun_Lion_Fuzz_Booster_Pedal_p/am-sun-lions.htm

It seems to help

chrismellotron
07-29-2012, 08:46 AM
I wonder if the Strat Iommi used on "Wicked World" is the same white Strat he is seen using with Jethro Tull on 'Rolling Stone's R n' R Circus'. I love Jethro Tull, but I find it humorous that Iommi left them because he hated playing their music. He had Heavy Metal to invent and couldn't be bothered with that light stuff.

Was Iommi using a Big Muff of some variety during the 'Master Of Reality' to 'Vol. 4' period?

VanStone
08-01-2012, 06:00 PM
Wow, it looks like this old thread has been dug up a couple of times.

Update for my part I am using an EQD Monarch (still into a Plexi style amp) in place of the SCOD I mentioned back on 07. I think the SCOD still has the edge in the tone/grit department for nailing Tony, but the Monarch is very, very close and the bass/treble controls make it just too nice to pass up.

V

chrismellotron
08-01-2012, 07:49 PM
This was one of my revelations when I got my Element 32 treble booster; Iommi tone just popped out, effortlessly.

/rick

For my 40th birthday, my wife baked me a huge cake and made a giant replica of a Big Muff Pi. Lo and behold, to my surprise and bewilderment, the cake burst open and Iommi just popped out, effortlessly... in black chiffon. It was after I ate a plateful of these weird brownies... ...listening to Budgie...

Led Sabblin
08-02-2012, 12:42 AM
Vol 4 has the best guitar sound of all(you can hear the string noise when sliding and lots of harmonics in the distortion). Reminds me sort of like some of the Q.O.T.S.A stuff. A germanium mk II tonebender type pedal tuned down guitar on the the neck humbucker of a Les Paul is that for me. If its just an amp from vol 4 on, you could have fooled me but I know that Vox and others had built in germanium fuzz type distortion circuits in them. Sabotage is probably the most hi-fi ozzy sabbath album to me. I think from there out Tony was trying out Vox amps on the last 3 albums it sounds like when he stopped tuning down. Found this related:
http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/showthread.php?t=150855

standingzero
08-02-2012, 01:38 AM
Great tone indeed! Liking the suggestions.

Led Sabblin
08-02-2012, 11:59 AM
Laney tried to emulate a treble booster with the Klipp channel. The Klipp had 2 channels with the Klipp channel being a "distortion" channel.

I don't think any of Iommi's tones sound remotely like a MKII and I own and have owned several boutique clones and a couple vintage originals over the years.

That "hi-fi" quality you hear could very easily be a product of studio wizardry and production. The guitar tones sound like a Klipp to my ears and Iommi has mentioned the use of the Klipp in interviews.

you probably know better than me but I do remember seeing a PGS demo with I think was an Earthquaker tone reaper or Hoof fuzz and the guy was playing cornucopia and it sounded awful close

0xeneye
08-02-2012, 12:35 PM
It's not a fuzz.
It's a treble booster.

Exactly.

Sterling#Sound
08-09-2012, 02:04 AM
Most of Iommi's early sounds were created using a Laney Supergroup and a treble booster. I've made loads of videos to demonstrate that.

Here's an example of a pre-Supergroup Laney at full blast, after which I kick in a BSM treble booster.

http://m.youtube.com/my_videos#/watch?v=L7vyxmofXa8

Carlocki
08-27-2012, 07:34 AM
http://www.buyanalogman.com/Analog_Man_Sun_Lion_Fuzz_Booster_Pedal_p/am-sun-lions.htm

It seems to help


is that a good pedal?

which is a common fuzz to get near to iommy sound

Sun Creature
08-27-2012, 08:04 AM
As mentioned, a Laney (pre)super-group, Gibson SG with P90's, and a treble booster will get you there.

I've gotten pretty close with my SG, DOD-250 clone, and Marshall 2204.

H.P. Lovecraft
08-27-2012, 08:39 AM
...P90's and a treble booster will get you there.


This is what I was thinking.

Sterling#Sound
08-31-2012, 02:43 PM
As mentioned, a Laney (pre)super-group, Gibson SG with P90's, and a treble booster will get you there.


That's right. And don't forget power amp distortion... you need to crank the amp and get the sound really cooking. Then add the treble booster.

snouter
08-31-2012, 03:17 PM
I used my FOXROX Hybrid last night at rehearsal. We were working on War Pigs. I used my Warmoth Swamp Ash Strat with Lollar Specials bridge position - Hybrid fuzz - Genz Benz Black Pearl 30. Having a vibrato bar equipped guitar adds some cool dive bomb effects during that 6/8 intro, and elsewhere when possible. But anyhow, I love my Hybrid!

Plaid Sabbath
08-31-2012, 05:45 PM
One of the coolest things about Sabbath is the variety of Iommi's sounds throughout the various albums. Every album had a distinct sound. I suppose that's why many of us still listen to them after 40+ years.

This demo made me strip down my whole rig and start over. I had a bajillion different fuzz and od pedals, but I never came across the right combination for me. Once I got the Naga Viper and DLS from C-Bread, game over. I don't lose any dynamics from my guitars and easily get "my sound" from just about any amp.

DHUQvqZXtvk&feature

Yr Blues
08-31-2012, 09:52 PM
After reading every post, I'm surprised not one mention of the fact that because Iommi's fingers were chopped off, he had to tune down his strings and use makeshift prosthetics with leather tips … thus countering the icepick tones of the treble-booster.

Also, his gigantic cross necklace channels tone from God.

Sterling#Sound
09-01-2012, 01:12 PM
After reading every post, I'm surprised not one mention of the fact that because Iommi's fingers were chopped off, he had to tune down his strings and use makeshift prosthetics with leather tips thus countering the icepick tones of the treble-booster.

Also, his gigantic cross necklace channels tone from God.

Funny :rotflmao! But trebleboosters don't produce ice-pick tones. The key is to plug it into an amp that's already cooking. In fact they're quite prone to introducing mid-hump.

It's when you plug them into a clean amp that they can be unbearable.

xntrick
09-01-2012, 02:51 PM
I used a Strat, Java Boost, Dirty Little Secret, and a Princeton on 2 for this version of Wicked World:

http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=7411183&q=hi

That was some killer tone on that track!!!

Purplexi
09-02-2012, 01:51 AM
It's all in the fingers! Provided You have a Rangemaster pedal and an SG~

ChrisMo70
09-02-2012, 10:38 AM
Originally Posted by Purple http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=5822650#post5822650)
I used a Strat, Java Boost, Dirty Little Secret, and a Princeton on 2 for this version of Wicked World:
http://www.soundclick.com/util/getpl...d=7411183&q=hi (http://www.soundclick.com/util/getplayer.m3u?id=7411183&q=hi)



Love your recording. Sick classic heavy rock tone out of a Princeton. Were you running an extension cab? I have a Dirty Little Secret and love it. Now interested in stacking it with a booster. Rock on, Purple!