Tone Sucking Wah Pedal

[keithb7]

I recently bought a Dunlop Crybaby wah. I love the sounds it gives but it sure sucks my tone when in the off position. During last practise I was always tweaking my sound settings because something wasn't right. I sounded thinner, less low end, my tone was leaning toward tinny. I shrugged it off, thinking must be me...Something was off. Then I did some experiments tonight.
I placed the wah at either end of my pedal set up, I also tried it in the FX loop. Wah, off then on, then no wah in the line. Every time, I preferred the wah comlpletely removed and basically put back in the original packaging. I do like it when it's on, making great quack effects. However I can't stand the side effect that it spoils my tone when it's off. I guess I made up my mind, it will be returned tomorrow. Anyone recommend a better, true by-pass, less tone sucking wah?

My set up is a USA Fender Strat, Carvin MTS Amp, 4x12 cab. FX pedals include Boss Super Overdrive, Mega Distortion, TU-2, DD-5, CE-5, GE-7 EQ.

Thanks for any input.

[operanonverba]

I had a Cry Baby until earlier this year when I picked up a Vox V847. I like the tone better. To me, it's less harsh sounding. I never noticed the Cry Baby or the Vox changing my tone. I had to use a spot 9v adapter to use the Vox in the power chain but it seems to be a good by-pass. Sounds like something is wrong with one of the jacks on your unit to me. I'm no expert but I tested mine when I read your post and there is no perceivable change in my tone one way or the other. Good luck!

[Moe45673]

Oh Keith, you have a long journey ahead of you

1) I too prefer the Vox V847 to the Crybaby.

2) Both the Crybaby and the V847 have absolutely horrible bypass. I heard it myself when I bought my Crybaby 10 years ago when I was 17 and clueless about tone, but I figured it was my imagination. In case you're curious, I use the V847 in a True Bypass Looper so it is completely removed from my signal when not in use

3) Best boutique bang for your buck: Budda Bud Wah. Hands down. It's the one you want

[GDking]

3) Best boutique bang for your buck: Budda Bud Wah. Hands down. It's the one you want



+1 does everything so well. Brings funk clean stuff to a whole new smooth non harsh level, and still can nail the heavy stuff.

[jzguitar]

You can always put a true-bypass switch in it (or send it to Keeley). I put one in my old Crybaby and it's great.

[StompBoxBlues]

There are several places on the net that give good details about how to remove the buffer from the wah circuitry. You didn't mention that I saw whether you use a battery or power (I'm not sure it would make any difference though...anyone know?) supply.

Anyway, if you aren't up for doing it yourself there are a lot of places that can mod it for you...( I THINK analogman does this, as do others) just Google for "wah crybaby true bypass" and you will find many hits.

There is a wah called "Picture wah" that has true bypass. It is excellent.
I don't know why manufacturers don't incorporate a simple switch or jumper configuration to be able to let the customer decide whether to keep the buffer in or not.

[Mastermind]

I've always noticed tone suck with crybabys and even my vox. Your description of what it did to your tone has been my exact experience also. I saw that the crybaby 535q has a true hard wired bypass ( still not true bypass) so I bought one and the tone suckage wasn't as bad. However, I still noticed that it had some sorta strange influence on my tone.. sounded a little more compressed and maybe just a little thinner. I had a wee bit less punch and bottom with it in the chain. The only way I really noticed it though was when I was sitting geeking out on it and listening specifically for it. Didn't notice it in full band situation of course. But since I knew it was something that was going to bother me, I went out and got a non invasive band aid for it instead of trying to disect it and mod it ( although that would have probably been just fine, but I just didn't feel like going there). I went out and got a true bypass looper and stuck everything that did weird stuff to my signal in the loop... presto! It's awesome!

[John Phillips]

I recently bought a Dunlop Crybaby wah. I love the sounds it gives but it sure sucks my tone when in the off position. During last practise I was always tweaking my sound settings because something wasn't right. I sounded thinner, less low end, my tone was leaning toward tinny. I shrugged it off, thinking must be me...Something was off. Then I did some experiments tonight.
I placed the wah at either end of my pedal set up, I also tried it in the FX loop. Wah, off then on, then no wah in the line. Every time, I preferred the wah comlpletely removed and basically put back in the original packaging. I do like it when it's on, making great quack effects. However I can't stand the side effect that it spoils my tone when it's off. I guess I made up my mind, it will be returned tomorrow. Anyone recommend a better, true by-pass, less tone sucking wah?

My set up is a USA Fender Strat, Carvin MTS Amp, 4x12 cab. FX pedals include Boss Super Overdrive, Mega Distortion, TU-2, DD-5, CE-5, GE-7 EQ.

Thanks for any input.Before you give up on it, try running it either first in line with the TU-2 immediately afterwards (if you haven't already), or the other way round.

The newer CryBabys have an input buffer which should reduce the circuit loading to near zero when the pedal is off (you don't want to remove this since it's not in line with the bypass signal - the idea is simply to raise the parallel input impedance of the circuit and prevent it affecting the bypass signal, although it still might). But a better buffer (which the TU-2 is) may help more, since the bypass on the CryBaby is not buffered.


FWIW, the guitar player in my other band has a Budda, which is a very musical-sounding wah and doesn't appear to color the tone when it's off, but it does have two problems - it thins the sound and drops the volume slightly too much when it's on, and it also distorts with a high-output guitar (although that shouldn't be a problem with a Strat).

The one I use is the older Dunlop 535 (no Q) which is fully buffered and has a boost control... solves both problems.

[clothwiring]

Loved my V847, got a Budda last fall which I like more, a little more of what I wanted in a wah. Probably if you throw a TB in there you'd be much happier.

[R.D.]

You can always put a true-bypass switch in it ( or send it to Keeley ). I put one in my old Crybaby and it's great.

+1000

I've got a "full boat" Keeley modded V847 and I LOVE it .... No Tone suckage at all !

[keithb7]

Thanks for your advise folks. I checked out the Keeley site. Looks like a great plan to send in for true by-pass, a LED and maybe even a volume knob. I do find the attack a little harsh when I first step on it, with O/D on. Does the volume mod only affect the wah effect volume, or is it like a master volume that turns down the entire sound? Thanks.

[bandofthieves™]

Thanks for your advise folks. I checked out the Keeley site. Looks like a great plan to send in for true by-pass, a LED and maybe even a volume knob. I do find the attack a little harsh when I first step on it, with O/D on. Does the volume mod only affect the wah effect volume, or is it like a master volume that turns down the entire sound? Thanks.
Don't forget Analogman. He doesn't really talk a lot about his wah mods,like,led truebypass,pots etc but he has been doing it for quite some time. No minimum service required..
http://www.analogman.com/repairs.htm

[Phil M]

Oh Keith, you have a long journey ahead of you

1) I too prefer the Vox V847 to the Crybaby.

2) Both the Crybaby and the V847 have absolutely horrible bypass. I heard it myself when I bought my Crybaby 10 years ago when I was 17 and clueless about tone, but I figured it was my imagination. In case you're curious, I use the V847 in a True Bypass Looper so it is completely removed from my signal when not in use

3) Best boutique bang for your buck: Budda Bud Wah. Hands down. It's the one you want

Moe's got it. Both of those wahs suck tone BAD. I believe Dunlop or Vox have recently issued true bypass versions but I don't remember which. The Budda is very nice and is in the Vox camp. I think it's the difference between $99 and $149 or something like that.

Or just buy a used Teese RMC1 (this is what I use).

[Phil M]

Question RE pedal mods: Why would you want an LED on a wah?

[dad gad]

I put a fulltone 3dpt switch and removed the buffer circuit in my crybaby and it sounds awesome. I changed outa resistor to compensate for the loss of volume when removing the buffer and it seems to have given it more gain and more of a "woh" vocal sound instead of the stock "wah" sound. It does take basic soldering skills. Really easy, though. It cost me about $20 total to mod.

[dad gad]

A led let's you know whether its on or off.

[James]

I had a tech install a Fulltone true bypass switch in my Vox wah, and it really made a huge difference. I'm a believer.

:RoCkIn

James

[Phil M]

A led let's you know whether its on or off.


That's what I figured. Hmm, I guess I'm still wondering why someone would want that but I guess that's irrelevant. But I mean, even if you leave the wah in a fixed position, don't you still know it's on?

[drod2045]

i tried my crybaby in the effects loop and when it sucked a lot of tone/volume but in front the volume remains the same and the dist/clean sounds the same. maybe i got a lucky crybaby?

guitar>Crybaby>Ibanez TS-7>Barber DDSS>
> Amp
(effects loop) Delay>Tuner >

[Dickie Fredericks]

Buy a Budda and call it all good for the day...

Yeah 2 threads where I get to mention Budda

[jay42]

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/s.castledine/greenfuz/wah.html

[StompBoxBlues]

That's what I figured. Hmm, I guess I'm still wondering why someone would want that but I guess that's irrelevant. But I mean, even if you leave the wah in a fixed position, don't you still know it's on?

Maybe you're a lot more aware than me..but shortly put...no.

Both noodling at home, and under the gun at a gig I have several times forgotten that the wah was on, and some of those times tried to troubleshoot what was wrong with my tone. I wish I had a picture of my face when I finally realize the wah is on...D'oh!

I find it hard to believe you haven't experienced this. For one thing, I like to play with wahs and use their tone...yeah if it is in the extreme heel or toe position you can guess that it is on, but otherwise there is a whole range that sounds "normal" almost...so if you are say playing with a fuzz and wah, wah set to one position, and you turn off the fuzz, get distracted, turn on a delay and after a short time wonder "sounds a little bassy...what happened to my tone". I usually start checking my guitar vol and tone, then pedal settings...etc.

A wah and Volume pedal are the only pedals you really can't see if they are on or HOW on they are at a glance.

So, yeah....an LED on a wah (which also makes a lot of sense since they use up power and I think most people power them, not battery) makes a LOT of sense to me.