Bass players from Mars Guitar Players from Uranus?

[Loni Specter]

Just wondering. Do bass players not feel that they are a part of the guitar related community? I know some guitarists play bass and vice versa.

Do dedicated bass players, meaning those that play bass as their primary instrument, feel distant from guitarists?

[James Hart]

unfortunately most bassists find it insulting to have their bass guitar called a guitar.... many feel bass guitar is an insult as well.

Myself, I took guitar lessons in the 80s because I couldn't find a "lead bass" styled teacher..... I'm an Extended Range Bass Guitarist myself. My main bass is a 7 string tuned like a guitar with a low B and I own a strat and yamaha acoustic.

[Brian Scherzer]

I am a bassist. I don't use the term "guitar".....out of respect for guitar players! ;)

[GDking]

"When drums stop, bass solo begin"!!


Aieeeee!

[2 Loud 4 You]

Are you trying to say you can pull a guitarist out of your...well, you know? ;)

Actually when I was fulltime bassist I got as much respect, from fans and musicians, in my band as the guitarist did.

[dillonfiore]

I can't play anything but bass, but I dont mind guitarist or bass guitarist. I do think that the two have differing philosophies on what a bass is supposed to do or sound like. A bass isnt supposed to sound like a guitar nor should it be played like one. Most guitarist dont get that.

[PB+J]

I think of the bass as being a different instrument from a guitar--I can play guitar well, but I prefer playing bass. I try to make my basses sound "un
-guitarlike."

[Bassomatic]

Just wondering. Do bass players not feel that they are a part of the guitar related community? I know some guitarists play bass and vice versa.

Do dedicated bass players, meaning those that play bass as their primary instrument, feel distant from guitarists?

Sadly, most of my bestest musical friends are guitarists.:D

[Mikebass]

It just kills me when I hear guitar players almost speak down to bass players.
OK Mr. Guitar player- here's a Jamerson line, have at it and play it correctly.

It's a completely different animal. Most guitar players don't relize that.
What makes them/you sound good is us.

[The Golden Boy]

What drives me nutty is that many bass players, moreso than other musicians, have this weird "elitist" thing going on. Like they're special because they play bass. Getting insulted by being referred to as a "bass player" instead of a "bassist." How a 'true bassist' would never use a pick. Get over yourself. You're a musician. You're a part of a team. Yes, the music would sound like poop without you, but it would also sound like poop with no drums or no guitar...

Bass is an entirely different animal. I believe it's an entirely different thought process. But it's something you work at, it's something you develop- the good ones have a gift, but it's no different than developing any other gift in being a good musician.

I don't recall ever being "looked down upon" simply for being a bass player by any decent musician.

[Loni Specter]

This is the kind of dialogue I was hoping for.
I'm putting together a Bass "Tone Wizards" forum at the OCT. AMP SHOW, so this is great stuff to help me understand the perceptions of the players and manufacturers.
Keep it comming.

[Mikebass]

What drives me nutty is that many bass players, moreso than other musicians, have this weird "elitist" thing going on. Like they're special because they play bass. Getting insulted by being referred to as a "bass player" instead of a "bassist." How a 'true bassist' would never use a pick. Get over yourself. You're a musician. You're a part of a team. Yes, the music would sound like poop without you, but it would also sound like poop with no drums or no guitar...

Bass is an entirely different animal. I believe it's an entirely different thought process. But it's something you work at, it's something you develop- the good ones have a gift, but it's no different than developing any other gift in being a good musician.

I don't recall ever being "looked down upon" simply for being a bass player by any decent musician.


I can't tell you how many times I walked into gigs and/or jams with either my 5 and maybe a 6 string and either got "your not gonna need that thing", "Dude, you a bass player", or something of the like- BEFORE I even played a note.

And on top of it, guitar players who have told me they don't want bass players who can play, just ones who can hold it down- a true art in of itself mind you, I do that 90% of the time, but who can just do the basics and nothing more really.

What's funny is how many "Ego" jokes do you know about bass players? Now, how many about guitar players?? Think there is a reason for that myself.......

I could really care less how or why you play a bass the way you do or call me- bass player, bass guitarist, bassist (just don't call me late for dinner!). Me, I'm a fingers guy, but I lost my mind when I heard Walter Beckers slighted muted pick tone on Steely Dan's "EveryThing Must Go" disc.
WHEW!!! Sweet tone!!

[musicofanatic5]

When I see a fella with a five or six string bass, I say "dude you're not going to need all those". We used to have a joke at one jam that a bass player was useful only until he "learned how to play", and then he was no good anymore. Oh yeah, I'm a bassist, too (it's how I make my living), but since I mostly play upright, that must make me "super-elitist"! (this is fun!)

[Gordon_Gecko]

It just kills me when I hear guitar players almost speak down to bass players.
OK Mr. Guitar player- here's a Jamerson line, have at it and play it correctly.

It's a completely different animal. Most guitar players don't relize that.
What makes them/you sound good is us.

what he said...

[mcknigs]

Reactions to some of the comments in this thread. For what they're worth. Which may not be much.

I play bass and guitar and have been going back and forth between them for years. I agree bass is different than guitar, and being a good bass player means learning things about bass that good guitarists don't necessarily know. I wouldn't agree that bass is completely different than guitar because I think there are potential overlaps in technique.

I like to play bass in different ways, with a pick, with my fingers, with my thumb, with a P-bass, with a hollowbody bass, flatwounds, roundwounds, etc. As part of that, sometimes I do things that are relatively guitar-like -- bend strings, add vibrato, palm mute, attack the strings with the side of the pick so the pick across the windings adds a high-frequency "sching" that's more guitar sounding than traditional bass... I tend to think of this as being more on the "bass guitar" side of things than on the "bassist" side of things, but I hesitate to go too far with labels like that because, ultimately, verbal labels do a poor job of describing music. As far as I'm concerned, it comes down to IISGIIG (if it sounds good, it is good).

I've known rockers who look down on the guys using fingers to play the 6-string Alembics strung up just below their chin, and the technical, schooled bassists who look down on the guy wailing away with a pick on a P-bass hanging down to his knees. I try to avoid choosing sides. As far as I'm concerned, IISGIIG.

I certainly don't have problems with a bassist who becomes highly technically proficient. That technique can be a great tool that benefits the band. OTOH, I don't want that bassist to overplay anymore than I want any other musician to overplay. If that guy starts playing a pop-bass solo behind the band when it's playing "You're Cheatin' Heart," I don't think I should be considered overly stodgy for reacting negatively to his show of technical prowess.

As far as bassists being part of the guitar community - most bass players I know also play guitar, and vice versa. Most specialize in one or the other, but there's enough overlap that there's a defacto single community whether you think of the bass guitar as being a guitar or not. How close bass playing is to guitar playing, and bass players come to being guitar players, depends on playing style.

-Scott

[lowendgenerator]

Is that why no one takes me seriously here? *looks up at username with disdain*

Seriously though, I'm able to seperate the 2 sides of my abilities fairly well. When I play bass, I'm not just playing the root in time, I do my best to 'hold it down' like Mikebass said, cuz that's where it's at. I can't pop, slap, or Jaco my way out of a paper bag, and I don't really want to. I wanna be locked down to what the drummer is doing, like I'm the offspring of a stack of R&B vinyl and a Jazz bass. I think the fact that I crave that pocket validates my existence as a bassist.

Likewise, when I'm playing guitar, the only time I think about the bass is when either there isn't one, or if the guy playing it is a guitar player. :rolleyes:

[Tim Michael]

I had a guy that I hadn't seen in years, who plays guitar BTW, approach me just the the other day. One of the first things he asked was if I ever learned to play 'an important' instrument. I just brushed the dust off from the week long Nashville gig and said, "Nah."

I think its all a mindset really. Or a matter of entellugunce, as in this guys case!

[LeonardScaper]

Hmmmm......interesting thread.

I've been a six stringer for years......that was me on the beach in '67 playing 'House Of The Rising Sun' on my Silvertone electric (no amp).
When we started the band in '68 nobody wanted to play bass.......so I switched up and convinced dad to head back to Sears and Roebuck. Drove home with a new Silvertone bass and a Silvertone Solid State Bass amp (6-10's). Weren't those Silvertones really Danelectro's?

For all those years I played on six strings for fun and four strings for gigs....and never really got great at either. I have huge respect for excellence in bass playing.

These days I hang out in the studio tracking my Singer/Songwriter stuff (God I hate that label) and I'm starting to realize that the reason I record is so I can play the bass.

Not sure which planet I'm from.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=540680&songID=5190884

[Zhangliqun]

I go back and forth between both, depending on the gig, and have for years and years and years. Yes they are different animals but even so I'd say I'm as good at one as the other, including slap/pop/funk. And fingers-only -- I don't know how anyone plays a bass with a pick. Bass strings just about grab the pick out of your hand and throw it at you (Joe Pesci voice): "What'sa matta wit' you, huh?"

Anyway, I don't like the "-ist" on anything. Just call me the bassman, bass player, bass guitar, just don't call me a bassist. Same with guitar, guitar player, guitar guy, not guitarist. Sounds too snooty to me, makes it sound like a political movement when I'm just trying to make music. It's not like the music world has a shortage of folks with their nose in the air.

FWIW, I've never had anyone laugh at or complain about anything beyond 4 strings, but then I rarely play in a guitar-based band, almost always keyboard based, so they like that I can hit something below the E. If they do raise an eyebrow at 5+ strings, they're idiots. What, they never do a song in D?

[otaypanky]

Recently I got bitten by a bass bug. After 45 years of having fun with electric 6 string and singing, I want to explore bass. I say explore, because although I have developed some strong hands and reasonable dexterity, I realize I am for the most part, at a loss of knowing just what to say musically on a bass. I am somewhat embarassed to say that whenever I heard music I enjoyed, more often that not, I had no idea of what the bass was doing. (I guess now I will obviously be concentraing on that in particular.) In the past, I was only aware of the bass when it was all wrong. Otherwise, the bass was such a core part of everything, I never really heard it as a separate instrument. 'Kind of like not being able to see the forest because of all the trees ~~~
So for 2 weeks now I have been surfing all over the net and stopping by every music shop I could find within a 50 mile radius looking for something a little better than the old Yamaha I dug out of a closet to start this journey with. No one seems to have any selection of basses in beautiful south central Pa. so it looks like a 4+ hour round trip train ride to Philly is in my near future
In the meantime, any helpful info/suggestions from the bassist bassguitarplaying lowendgeneratin' bassmen on TGP would be greatly and humbly appreciated ~

[lowendgenerator]

*snip*
In the meantime, any helpful info/suggestions from the bassist bassguitarplaying lowendgeneratin' bassmen on TGP would be greatly and humbly appreciated ~

Otay, I'll play, since you pretty much called me out. Here's what I've learned in the last 10 years, most of it the hard way.

Bass playing is like zen in a sense. It's the same as guitar, and nothing like guitar as well. You can stick to the root, walk the scales and play connect the root dots, or play root-5th-octave etc. There's a million ways to do it, and as long as you're in the right key, you can't really go wrong...Unless your playing to a room of bass players lol.

"Getting tight with the drummer" does not mean making fun of the rest of the band from the backline! It's a guaranteed groove if you pluck the notes in time with the bass drum. The bass drum should sound like it's triggering the bass line. Together they form the foundation for the song. If they're not tight, you're foundation is shaky, and the rest of the song will be shaky as a result. To me, this is a universal truth. It doesn't matter if your playing slap-funk or country mellow, this rule always applies.

Scale knowledge is key. Every note of the song can be a solo. Walking up and down to meet the next chord change is an artform in itself. I'm not saying everything has to be jazz scat, but after a few months of playing the root, you should be ready to stretch your legs a bit. This is where individual style and a great feel for the instrument comes into play. I'm still trying to slay this dragon.

You may have dexterity, you may have muscle strength and coordination, but you need to practice on your instrument. I thought I could go and play a 2 hour show with the muscle and dexterity I had built playing guitar. I was in so much pain by the end of the night I couldn't load out my gear. I wasn't playing smart, I was just playing hard. Instead of a light touch I was digging in way too hard, trying to extract every decibel from the bass. Which leads me to my next point....

You don't need to play hard. A light touch is all that is needed most of the time. Too much vibration and swing in the strings and you'll be bouncing off frets, pickups, and your own fingers. I look back at pics of me playing and my fingers were way off the fretboard, and flailing madly at the strings. I even looked like I was playing poorly! If you play softly, your right hand won't have to chase the string around and youll miss less notes when playing fast or across strings. This also has a great bonus effect. With a lighter touch, you can lower your action to almost nothing. Which lets you play easier. My Jazz bass is set up real low, like no relief low, and it's fantastic.

Some live sound advice. Instead of diming the knobs on a 350 watt'er and playing the hell out of it, run a preamp into a giga-watt power amp. Let the electricity do the work. You'll have tons more headroom and arguably better tone. Your EQ will be more sensitive and you'll be able to fine tune it with better accuracy. Mix and match 10"s and 15"s for a nice balanced sound. 10's are very punchy and bright, but 15's are what bring that ungodly thump.

Finding a good bass tone is a journey and a quest unto itself. I've been chasing a certain tone in my head for years. I've had a few missteps in my search, trial and error by the thousands. Poor bass tone will leave you feeling lonely and unsatisfied, like a Viagra induced hard-on in a drunk tank. Especially if you paid huge cake to get it next-day-aired to you and you realize it's not anything you thought it would be. Oh the frustration! Get out to the stores and play every bass on the wall. Even the ugly ones! Also, playing a crappy bass through a really good rig at a store can be misleading to both the crapiness of the bass, as well as the greatness of the amp.

Bass playing is fun. The low end makes the booty move. That's it for now. Thank you.

[bard2dbone]

I'm mainly a bass player. And I have been for about thirty years. But I do most of my songwriting on a 12-string Taylor. I do some on keys, but the 12-string does most of the heavy lifting.

Lowendgenerator gave you some good points. I'll echo a couple for emphasis. Get a much more powerful amp than you think you'll need and then don't turn it up too high. Headroom is one of the biggest secrets to a good bass tone. And he is definitely right about economy of motion. If your fingers are flailing, you sound bad. It's just how it works. Locking in with the drummer is key. I remember that one band I worked with in the early '80's told me to play the drum parts on my bass, as in 'Thumb is the bass drum. Index finger is the snare. Middle finger iis the ride cymbal. etc...' That only really works with a minimalist drummer. But, conceptually it's a good place to start.

Remember how most of your early guitar solos were shaped suspiciously like a pentatonic scale, even if you didn't know what a pentatonic was at that point? Most beginner guitarists think of that 'shape' as the box to start with. For bass, a similarly useful 'box' is 'root-fifth-octave'. For simple parts like old-school country, you might not even deviate from that shape at all. But the more comfortable you get with the instrument conceptually, the more you'll deviate. Most of Jamerson's lines had a strong 1-5-8 thing going.

Like with any instrument, study the masters. But don't try to slavishly copy them. Jamerson is the king. You won't go wrong by listening to him. But don't even try for his level of complexity until you can get his level of melody. His bass lines were essentially counter-melodies. That's way trickier than it sounds. But it's a great goal.

[otaypanky]

Thank you for your very helpful replies to my post. You both reinforced some things I had suspected, and also gave me much more insight on what to concentrate on. I played out on bass for the first time tonight. 'Just a few tunes at a jam hosted by some friends that I highly respect as musicians.
The bass player said I did fine. And I sure had fun.
Thanks again ~
Again, thank you : )
Bob

[The Golden Boy]

Poor bass tone will leave you feeling lonely and unsatisfied,

There's something else- know where you're sitting at in the tonal spectrum. I'm as guilty as anyone of doing a mid-scoop, but those mids are what get you heard. The kick is the bottom, the cymbals are the highs- below that are your guitars and vocals- between there and the kick is your playground.

When you're having a hard time hearing yourself- remember that the awesome bass tone you've dialed in alone will disappear in a mix.

I'm mainly a bass player.
Hey, I know that dude!

[VH5150]

I can't play anything but bass, but I dont mind guitarist or bass guitarist. I do think that the two have differing philosophies on what a bass is supposed to do or sound like. A bass isnt supposed to sound like a guitar nor should it be played like one. Most guitarist dont get that.


:rolleyes: oh we get it.....bass players are just frustrated guitar players....jk

I've played with quite a few bass players that played it like a guitar
i much rather play with a guy or gal that is a true bass player that loves to play bass.:cool:

[otaypanky]

When you're having a hard time hearing yourself- remember that the awesome bass tone you've dialed in alone will disappear in a mix.

Thanks, GoldenBoy, --- good tip. I've managed to develop a signature tone on guitar, but haven't evolved to anywhere near that level on bass. Instinctually, I have been dialing in a fuller tone as opposed to scooped out mids. My musical preference is blues based, and to my ears, a fuller sound seems to be what's most appropriate for that. But anytime I play out, whether it's guitar or bass, I'm never reluctant to ask another musician in the audience for a 'heads up' if I'm too loud, too soft, or whatever ~~~

[LaXu]

And fingers-only -- I don't know how anyone plays a bass with a pick. Bass strings just about grab the pick out of your hand and throw it at you (Joe Pesci voice): "What'sa matta wit' you, huh?"

I do prefer playing bass with the fingers though but for some styles like punk or metal I feel the pick can be more appropriate. What I found was that I can't play bass with a regular guitar pick. Years ago I had bought an assortment of picks based on what looked cool and had this HUGE pick that is about the size of 1.5 normal picks. That works great for bass. Bigger strings, bigger picks! :BEER


As I'm mainly a guitar player, bass is a challenge in itself. Not the actual physical element of playing but what to play. It's hard to NOT start doing guitarlike solos on the bass and instead focus more on rhythmic playing.

My take on the delicate subject of the amount of strings a bass should have is the same as my answer to the same question regarding guitar: For ME 4 strings (6 on guitar) is just right. I've had a 5-string bass and a 7-string guitar and the extra low end on either of them didn't really add anything to my playing.

Since were talking guitarists vs bassists, what's your take on bass and distortion? I use distorted tones on guitar a lot but hate them on bass. A fat, punchy clean bass sound is what I like.

[bard2dbone]

I used distorted tones a LOT back in the early '80's, but it was because my SVT had two bad tubes. And since it was my first (still only) SVT, I didn't know that wasn't what it was supposed to sound like.