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View Full Version : Has anyone tried the Mullard 12ax7 reissues from New Sensor


peequin
06-14-2007, 12:41 PM
I just got one from doug's tubes. Let me know if any of you has tried these yet. I know they are relatively new....

http://www.dougstubes.com/images/Mullard%2012AX7RI.JPG

edward
06-14-2007, 12:47 PM
Sorry this is no answer to you but I, too, am also interested from users of OS Mullards ...hopefully they can give us a comparison review. :)

FWIW, I like the Tung-Sol RI 12ax7 a lot. So much so I put em in both my amps.

Edward

Blue Strat
06-14-2007, 12:53 PM
I'm waiting for all you guys to do unpaid Beta testing for a year;)

peequin
06-14-2007, 01:09 PM
I'll test it out tonight and report!!

Luke Duke
06-14-2007, 01:19 PM
I knew it was only a matter of time before they released a 12AX7!!

I'll be eager to read your review.

Luke

scottl
06-14-2007, 02:41 PM
One on the way to test.....

Blue Strat
06-14-2007, 04:15 PM
I knew it was only a matter of time before they released a 12AX7!!


Luke

"They" already have about 6 different 12AX7s. "They" are New Sensor, the guys who bring you Sovtek, Tung Sol Reissues, Electro Harmonix, etc..

ruger9
06-15-2007, 05:48 AM
And these are NOT the same tube as Groove Tubes' "Mullard Reissue"? (thinking maybe GT has just been re-branding the New Sensors?)

Blue Strat
06-15-2007, 05:55 AM
And these are NOT the same tube as Groove Tubes' "Mullard Reissue"? (thinking maybe GT has just been re-branding the New Sensors?)

No, they don't even look alike "inside the glass".

scottl
06-15-2007, 06:16 AM
Doug told me they resemble a reworked LPS.

peequin
06-15-2007, 06:26 AM
Ok first report. They sound good.

But I also replaced my V2 and V3 with Tungsols so don't know how much of a difference that made either. Switching over from an old set of jjs.

I have two different NOS Mullards. In comparison, from memory only...the New Sensor doesn't sound as 3D sounding.

But a definite improvement. It really warmed up the amp and tamed the harshness a bit. Worth the $20....I guess so.

I really need to test them further. But it is A OK for now.

Blue Strat
06-15-2007, 06:29 AM
When comparing ANYTHING, make only one change at a time or you're really not doing a fair comparison. Now that you've got the TSs in V2 and V3, try switching back to whatever you had in V1 before.

Ideally, a blind test (one in which someone else is doing the switching and you do the listening) is the best and only real way to do sonic comparisons.

Luke Duke
06-15-2007, 07:53 AM
"They" already have about 6 different 12AX7s. "They" are New Sensor, the guys who bring you Sovtek, Tung Sol Reissues, Electro Harmonix, etc..

I know "they" being New Sensor, I figured it was only a matter of time after the release of the EL34s. Thus far I really dig Tung Sols and the Mullards would have to be pretty nice for me to stray.

Luke

mmorse
06-15-2007, 11:50 AM
Well, if their "Mullard" ax7s are anything like their "Mullard" 34s, they can keep them. I've also tried both the GT ax7Ms and the Gt 34Ms and, while decent, (better than the New Sensor 34s IMO) can't compare to the real thing.

One thing I must say. Both my 800s prefer the real deal Mullard ax7s to new production "Mullards" but a new production little plexi clone I had didn't seem to care as much. There was very little tonal difference between a real Mullard and a GT "Mullard" when used in that amp.

This is just speculation on my part but I think today's builders may be voicing their amps on new production tubes (makes sense) and the whole NOS mystique does not come in to play as much as older amps that were built around the old tubes. Of course, that's just personal theory and conjecture.

MichaelK
06-15-2007, 03:45 PM
Ideally, a blind test (one in which someone else is doing the switching and you do the listening) is the best and only real way to do sonic comparisons.

I thought one should compare invoices while listening in order to say the most expensive is the "awsomest??"

:confused:

English Jim
06-15-2007, 04:11 PM
I thought one should compare invoices while listening in order to say the most expensive is the "awsomest??"

:confused:

Indeed! The only true test - which costs the most:)

Sonnyblu
04-06-2008, 10:13 AM
Man, I love the Tung-Sol 12AX7's also... I'm still waiting to get my Mullards, they should be here in a couple of days along with some JAN Phillips 5751 to use as V3 in my Marshalls. So I will post about the Mullards... It's hard to find a review isn't it? I hope that's not bad news...

I think I'm going to go ahead and get some more backup Tung-Sols...
I have been using JJ ECC83s forever... so I have had a awakening!
Like they say "It sounds like I took a blanket off my amp and changed my strings"

I've been using JJ's so long (20 yrs) and missing that Beautiful, Open, 3D Chime!
Yes, JJ's are great for Leads and high gain... But Tung-Sols have the Chime.

Sonnyblu
04-06-2008, 10:18 AM
Post Resurrection! Like a Phoenix from the ashes! Damn... It's been a year and still no New Sensor Mullard 12AX7 RI review... I will post as soon as I get mine. But considering how hard it is to find a review... Does it even matter?

boogieplaya
04-06-2008, 10:28 AM
I have tried the Mullard reissues in 2 of my Marshalls. 50 watters, dsl50 and 1987 jcm800 2204. I did the power tubes and v1, switched from jj power tubes and tung sol 12ax7's in v1 to the Mullards. To me they (both power and pre) sound softer and a bit throatier (more mids) than the jj+ts combination. I ended up preferring The Mullard power tubes over the jj's, but i put the tung sols back in v1 as i think the ts's are a little livlier with more sparkle and a sweeter top end..Kudos to the el34's though..IMHO Of course.

Sonnyblu
04-06-2008, 10:56 AM
Thank you BoogiePlaya... Are you saying that the Mullards are simular to the JJ's? I mean dark and heavy in the mids? Not chimey and more Hi-Fi like the Tung-Sols?
Man, I've got boxes and boxes of JJ's I sure don't need anything else that sounds like them.. lol I have brand new gold pin JJ's I need to sell already.

boogieplaya
04-06-2008, 11:01 AM
yea Sonnyblu, My ear thinks they sound more jj-ish in that they are darker. The Mullard preamp tubes, while darker than the tung sols, sound more alive than jj's..But that is just my tin ear talking.

Sonnyblu
04-06-2008, 11:10 AM
Great! That is good news.... Yeah, JJ's are just to dark for me...
But if they (the Mullards) are any more alive (Bright) that is very good.

Maybe I can put them in V2...

So I'm considering V1 Tung-Sol, V2 Mullard, V3 JAN Phillips 5751 in all my amps.

Hey! Thanks for the post BoogiePlaya! I used to have an old Mark 1 Mesa.

boogieplaya
04-06-2008, 11:15 AM
So I'm considering V1 Tung-Sol, V2 Mullard, V3 JAN Phillips 5751 in all my amps..


I dont possibly see how you could go wrong with that combination!

Tommy_G
04-06-2008, 11:54 AM
I began my journey into tube evaluation only about 4 months ago, so accept the following comments with my relative inexperience in mind.

For testing, I put in a bank of neutral but balanced sounding tubes and then swap out V1 to compare the change in basic tonal characteristics like chime, dynamics, presence, thump, breakup, etc. I'd use Sovtek LPS's as the standard because they are the only tube I've found you can stack your preamp with them and have it sound sweet without overemphasis of any particular characteristic. (May burn them out in the lead channel 'inverter stage' though...this has been noted by many boutique'ers and I've experience a 100% failure rate in this position, too). I've had some problems with microphonics with these tubes, too - but they are reasonably pleasant and perhaps the most balanced sounding new production tube. Other less balanced tubes are to shape you tone.

Tungsol RI's definately are #1 for V1 for chime, presence, clarity, definition, dynamics, etc - but I've found that more than 1 Tungsol in early stage positions makes clean sounds overly presence'd...They are icepicks if overused.

I find the Jan Phillips overtly sterile without any bottom end in guitar amplication. They'd be ok for audio, perhaps even a mic preamp, but they are too clinical for a guitar amp IMO.

I'm finding 12AT7's to work the best in the Phase Inverter position...don't understand the theory behind it, but it works. I prefer tube that emphases low end and brightness, like the EH. Seems to add all manner of clarity to the final sound - but you need to use your main volume to access these characteristics, and turn the channel master's down.

I have no use for JJ83's. Have heard wonderful things about the new JJ Tesla 803's though.

I like 1 Chinese tube in the high gain circuit. Gets that classic Mesa grind going....

Awaiting receipt of my RI Mullards. My expectations are low. If anyone wanted to market tubes, they would naturally buy the Mullard name and even the cheapest and crappiest tube would still jump off the shelves. A name is only a name.

brianf
04-06-2008, 12:14 PM
No, they don't even look alike "inside the glass".

Correct. They are different. Here is the description.

This new production 12AX7 / ECC83 tube is New Sensor's reissue of the famous Mullard 12AX7.

"Microphonics are not an issue despite the larger that average plate structure. The transconductance on my sample was the same as two NOS samples I measured. Not really high gain at all, but a real good noise floor and a nice smooth tone that doesn’t encourage ear fatigue the way some preamps can be."

The Mullard name and trademark have been acquired by the New Sensor Corporation. This new production Mullard 12AX7 tube is manufactured at their Xpo-Pul factory (also known as Reflektor) in Saratov, Russia. New Sensor is an American corporation and since taking ownership of this factory has been steadily improving the quality of current production tubes.

One other note about the construction of these tubes is they have filaments that are almost completely encased in the plate structure. They often don't "light up" when working properly. This is not a problem, it's normal for the reissue Mullard 12AX7 / ECC83.

I have 2. I have one in my Tweed Princeton clone. To be honest I cannot hear a difference from an EH even though they do not look similar, the sound similar.



brianf

Blue Strat
04-06-2008, 12:59 PM
Despite what their ad says about microphonics, the New Sensor Mullard Reissue is definitely more microphonic than their short plate tubes like the Tung Sol Reissue or EH. This shouldn't pose a problem for low/medium gain amps but could in higher gain amps.

Sonnyblu
04-06-2008, 01:33 PM
New Sensor has done such a good job with the Tung-Sols... You would think they would try to make the best posible product they could for the Mullard name. What do the famous original Mullard 12AX7s sound like?

Tommy_G
04-06-2008, 01:55 PM
The rare longplates and Genalex versions have an eye-popping huge soundstage, razor sharp focus...

Yes, rub them three times, and a genie will pop out for your visual entertainment.

Structo
04-06-2008, 02:07 PM
One thing you have to consider about newer production amps is that they are designed around the higher voltage that is present in today's house current.
Back in the day, the wall voltage was 110 vac, so maybe everything starting with the power transformers and on were designed for that voltage.
Today it's not uncommon to have between 120 to 125 volts coming out of the wall.
That's 9 to 12% increase in voltage that affects the B+ and plate voltage of tubes not to mention the filament supply.
I don't own a vintage amp but it sure seems that having that kind of voltage increase is going to affect how the amp sounds.
With modern amps that have PT's designed for 120vac maybe the current production tubes are a better bet than spending big bucks on NOS tubes that aren't meant to run at those voltages.
Anyway, just a thought.

spyeman
04-06-2008, 03:02 PM
All very interesting, but in several amps doing several blind tests (having someone else switch the tubes), the GT12ax7-M is the overall winner, with the Tung Sol close but a bit "sharper" and "brassier". It's definitely to each his own, and so amp dependent as well..........

Sonnyblu
04-06-2008, 04:09 PM
Cool...

Tommy_G
04-06-2008, 05:24 PM
Just added a Fender Pro Jr and a Fender DRRI to the test amp lineup.

Record the amps and let TGP dudes do the blind test !:eek:

boogieplaya
04-06-2008, 05:56 PM
OOOOOH...This sounds like FUN...We are a weird bunch aren't we?:crazy

Rick1114
04-06-2008, 06:26 PM
Here's my tube summary after an extensive ABing in my modded DRRI. I only started recently with tube swapping but I've always had a great ear, and I'm really sensive to the subtle changes. I can even hear cap changes in my amp very distictively....

GT12AX7-M - came inside my ZenDrive2, but had too much gain for the pedal IMO. It's my current V2 tube in my modded DRRI because it's balanced, articulate and touch sensitive - covers all the bases! That's why I think these are hard to find despite the fact that GT put out a bad batch of them. I don't know what the originals sound like (more 3D sounding is my guess), but I do know this is the best new production tube I've come across. I'd buy more but I can't even find them.

Tung-Sol re-issue 12AX7 - I use it in V1. It has a hyped top end which actually makes it perfect for V1, but I hardly use that channel anyway. I wouldn't purchase another just because it's not balanced enough. Might be good for darker voiced amps.

GT12AX7-C - This tube has fat low end/mid-range an attenuated high end but retains touch sensitivity. I used it in v2 when my DRRI was overly bright, before I found the right mods for it - and it tamed the highs perfectly while retaining touch sensitivity. I put it in my AMT Tube Platinum pedal (A Marshall in Box type pedal) because it has nice mid-range to it. This is a handy tube for me.

GT-5751-M - There's not much info around about this tube, but I find it adds mojo almost anywhere I put it in a lower gain situation. IMHO it's the most underated tube out there. I have it in my PI right now (to add a phatness for lower volume situations) but it sounded good in V2, it sounds great in my Zen2, it even sounded great as a vibrato tube in my DRRI because it added the perfect amount of strengh, and that's a position where the tube shouldn't matter much, but I swear the only time I liked the DRRI's vibrato was with the 5751M in there!

Mullard CV402V - It's known as the best PI tube & reverb driver for fenders and it is. What else is there to say - no tube sounds close in those two positions. I just found for home playing the GT5751 is a good compromise for the PI since it adds a bit of fat.

JJECC83s - My amp (bought used) had these tubes in every 12AX7 position. These tubes are fat and dull with a "floppy" low end. They just "lop" your articulation right off - I almost hate them. If you need attenuated high end and boosted low/mid-range get the chinese 12Ax7 and call it a day. I have a few of them around and don't use them for anything important.

JJECC81 (12AT7) - These came in my used amp too but I replaced them with Mullards. I had them sitting around and didn't think much of them, until I found a post from ALF saying he liked them in the Zen2. I put one in today and I was pleasantly suprised! Not as lifeless as the JJECC83s. I think I just found the new keeper tube for my Zen2.

That's all for now - This post went on much longer that I though it would! I'd like to hear about those new Mullard too!

Rick

The Pup
04-06-2008, 06:46 PM
:munch

doublee
04-06-2008, 06:54 PM
Me I recently replaced an old RCA 7025 in V2 in my Vibro for the heck of it. The amp was sounding a little muffled on the low end. I put a JJ in there because it was laying around and the bottom end tightened up nice and there was more definition and spank thruout. This was a clear change, not subtle. Go figger.

Red Planet
04-06-2008, 07:03 PM
Well I just hope the reissues sound better than JJ ECC83s...

I doubt it and if they are anything like the Previous NS stuff I have tried they wont last very long untill they start getting microphonic.

I did play some of these this morning though. Ahhhhhhh.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v218/RedPlanet/e077a1fd.jpg

Ascension
04-08-2008, 01:26 AM
I have a pair of the New Sensor Mullards. I picked them up from Doug over at Dougs Tubes.I did some A/B testing with several 12AX7's in V-1 of my Fender Super Sonic.
The benchmark is a late 50's NOS long plate Mullard.
The New Sensor Mullard had about the same output but lacked the "life" and huge warm tone of the NOS.
In an A/B with a Tung Sol I found the New Sensor Mullard to have more overtones and depth with slightly more output.
A/B between the JJ ECC83S and the Mullard clobbered them . The JJ's were dark and lifeless.
A/B between the Mullard and a JJ ECC 803 was about the same the 803 was better than the 83 but still lacked "life".
Overall the New Sensor 12AX7 Mullards are one of the best of the new production tubes I have tried as of late. I found the pair I bought to be on par with the Tung Sols with a slightly fatter tone, a little less sparkle + a little more output.
One went into the SS in V-3 for the crunch channel and so far has been pretty quiet surprisingly. I feared microphonic issues with the long plates in that slot but so far it's been ok. I do have the head so in a SS combo it may not be as forgiving with the microphonics.
While these are FAR behind the late 50's real long plate NOS Mullards I have in tone, they are among the best of the current production 12AX7's I have tried so far. I think New Sensor has built a winner!

Blue Strat
04-08-2008, 05:10 AM
Me I recently replaced an old RCA 7025 in V2 in my Vibro for the heck of it. The amp was sounding a little muffled on the low end. I put a JJ in there because it was laying around and the bottom end tightened up nice and there was more definition and spank thruout. This was a clear change, not subtle. Go figger.

The RCA must have been dead.

Which JJ did you use?

Sonnyblu
04-08-2008, 08:12 AM
I have been using these tubes for a very long time... When I tried the new New Sensor Tung-Sol 12AX7, Mullard 12AX7 and Phillips 5751 everything came back to life. All that Chime that I had been missing for decades... All these years I thought it was my pickups... If I were looking for strictly a fat super smooth lead tone only I guess JJ's would be alright, but clean... they make your amp sound like a Peavey! Flat, Dull... I want to say cardboard. Sorry JJ Electronics... Hey! But their powere tubes are great! I use their 6L6's in my JTM45, Basman, CVR and their new KT77's in my Plexi.

I am anxious to do more side by side between the JJ and Mullard and report my results... but as far as V1 goes... The winner is Tung-Sol.

Red Planet
04-08-2008, 08:58 AM
I have been using these tubes for a very long time... When I tried the new New Sensor Tung-Sol 12AX7, Mullard 12AX7 and Phillips 5751 everything came back to life. All that Chime that I had been missing for decades... All these years I thought it was my pickups... If I were looking for strictly a fat super smooth lead tone only I guess JJ's would be alright, but clean... they make your amp sound like a Peavey! Flat, Dull... I want to say cardboard. Sorry JJ Electronics... Hey! But their powere tubes are great! I use their 6L6's in my JTM45, Basman, CVR and their new KT77's in my Plexi.

I am anxious to do more side by side between the JJ and Mullard and report my results... but as far as V1 goes... The winner is Tung-Sol.

The NS Tung Sols are definately bright sounding. In a darker sounding amp they will sound better. The JJ ECC83's arent as bright but (for example) in a really bright Marshall the JJ's will fair much better IMO. The JJ ECC803's arent quite as dark as the JJ ECC83's but dont do well in V1 if the amp is cranked because of the longer plates.

At least we do have some choices.

doublee
04-08-2008, 10:31 AM
The RCA must have been dead.

Which JJ did you use?

ECC83 in a DR. The 7025 is in fine condition wise ( I think), its smoother, and I like more country spank so maybe thats why I liked it ok. You have some Tungs RI's in the mail to me so I look forward to hearing those.

I also have the above JJ's in a Vibrolux and its very lively and touch sensitive. If anyone has a better suggestion I am all ears!

Its important to note that I havnt tried any of these at HIGH volume yet so dont know the charectaristics in that scenario.

eric erickson (doublee)

gretsch58
04-08-2008, 12:07 PM
I tried them, didn't like it in V1. but V2, and V3 were ok. JJ's sound good in V1. IMO

johnny q
01-14-2009, 09:24 AM
Does anyone know if the New Sensor "Mullards" have issues when used in the Cathode Follower position like the RI Tung Sol's?????

JQ

Eagle1
01-14-2009, 10:07 AM
Sovteck 12AX7WA in a nice box.

JasonP
01-14-2009, 11:44 AM
I have been using these tubes for a very long time... When I tried the new New Sensor Tung-Sol 12AX7, Mullard 12AX7 and Phillips 5751 everything came back to life. All that Chime that I had been missing for decades... All these years I thought it was my pickups... If I were looking for strictly a fat super smooth lead tone only I guess JJ's would be alright, but clean... they make your amp sound like a Peavey! Flat, Dull... I want to say cardboard. Sorry JJ Electronics... Hey! But their powere tubes are great! I use their 6L6's in my JTM45, Basman, CVR and their new KT77's in my Plexi.

I am anxious to do more side by side between the JJ and Mullard and report my results... but as far as V1 goes... The winner is Tung-Sol.


Yup the JJ's are dull and lifeless. It is like playing with a blanket over the speaker cab.
If you haven't found this then you need to try more tubes or like a really dark sound.
Tong-sol for me as well in V1.

rockon1
01-14-2009, 01:20 PM
+1

I have just ordered a pair of the new sensor RI's and will compare them directly to a pair of as-yet-unused NOS Mullard Longplates (see pic). My wife will do the blind tube swapping for me while I step out for smokes between sessions. The amps tested will be Orange Rockerverb 50, Mesa Rocket 44, Mesa Mark IV, Marshall JMP 2203 and Laney VC50. We will track the guitars during the tests.

This should be fun.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd114/mastertrax/mullards.jpg


And? .......

TubezAmpz
01-14-2009, 01:32 PM
And? .......

:agree

loooot
02-23-2009, 04:31 PM
i bought 3 new sensor corp tubes, mullard 12ax7s and all were microphonic. So i found and bought 2 vintage mullard 12 ax7s from 1963 and an RCA black plate from 1954 and put them in my 83' marshall jcm 800 2204. I have been messin with tubes for years now - ive probabaly spent 300 bucks on power and preamp tubes over the past two years and finally I have found some good tubes. It can be ahrd to find someone in your area tath has an abundance of vintage tubes but if you find someone who does they are your amps new best freind. This is the only way to go, not nessacarily specific to these tubes, but vintage tubes in general. Even if you can find some Phillips, GE, RCA - they are all going to better then the shit you'll get from new sensor corp ( but the vintage mullards do sound incredible). We compared the NSC re-issues to the vintage tubes (even cheaper vintage tubes $20 a piece) and the NSC shit didnt even compare. The getters in the new tubes were paper thin and the overall construction was just cheap. That being said take your amp into consideration, if its newer marshall, peavey even mesa your probably running a diode clip through power and pre amp tubes anyways, in which case you may not notice alot of noise form some of the newer tubes. But if your cranking your per-amp to get the distortion your gonna notice a shitty pre-amp tube right away - find some vintage preamp tubes - watch out for ebay though if they say vintage tubes but they are made in russia they're probably shittin you. The best stuff out of russia has been electro harmonix which I do have 4 of and still they dont even compare to the vintage tubes. Look for tubes from britain, the u.s even amperex tubes from canada sounded good. I spent two hours at this guys house with all sorts of vintage 12ax7s, he just kep swapping the v1 until i found a tube that I liked the best, but any of them would have been better than the shite tubes I got from new sensor corp.

The Pup
02-23-2009, 05:19 PM
http://www.piotrpix.com/files/images/Keyboard%20Enter%20Key_0.preview.JPG

hawkeye17
02-23-2009, 06:59 PM
Ok first report. They sound good.

But I also replaced my V2 and V3 with Tungsols so don't know how much of a difference that made either. Switching over from an old set of jjs.

I have two different NOS Mullards. In comparison, from memory only...the New Sensor doesn't sound as 3D sounding.

But a definite improvement. It really warmed up the amp and tamed the harshness a bit. Worth the $20....I guess so.

I really need to test them further. But it is A OK for now.

+1. They sound good but not as good as a NOS Mullard to my ears. They're a very solid new production tube though.

Ascension
02-23-2009, 08:53 PM
Yep I have. In very high gain amps like my Prosonics they tend to be microphonic. The Tungsol reissues are quieter and much fatter sounding. Tone wise compaired to NOS Blackburn long plates they are JUNK! Thin and harsh without the 3D harmonics of the Blackburns. The first of the GT-M's I got sounded really close to the Blackburns I have had ---for a LITTLE while then failed :mob:horse. Those would be great if they were only RELIABLE and would last!

johnny q
03-08-2009, 08:34 AM
Anyone know if these (like the Sovtek Tung Sols) have issues in cathode follower stages??

I know, I asked already - asking again.;)

baron55
03-08-2009, 09:03 AM
Yep,

Most of the stuff out of the New Sensor Plant in Sarotov (Electro Harmonix, Sovtek, Mullard, etc) cannot handle high voltages on the cathodes. Most of these tubes can only handle a 100v heater to cathode difference. Most 12AX7 specs are between 150 to 180 volt cahtode to heater difference.

Supposedly the the Sovtek 12AX7WC can handle the cathode follower position, but I have no experience with these.

I don't know if this is true on the old 12AX7WA and 12AX7Wb tubes that Sovtek made.

JJ, Shuguang variants from Ruby, Penta labs, etc can handle this. And of course NOS can as well.

Blue Strat
03-08-2009, 09:10 AM
I thought one should compare invoices while listening in order to say the most expensive is the "awsomest??"

:confused:

I'm sure some people do that. I'm more into the sonic aspects and how they appeal to anyone, in particular. ;)