Any hints/tips for a 6stringer when playing bass?

[leofenderbender]

Tips from a real bass player would go far. I'm strictly a guitarist that is playing bass in church this sunday; D'oh! drafted again.

Any tips, hints?
What do I need to do?
What should I avoid?
What else do I need to know?

I could really use the experience of a real bass player to get me pointed in the right direction; I have a couple of days to practice.

Thanks for any & all assistance.

[mcknigs]

I'm not sure how much you know already so I apologize if some of this is too obvious.

How much theory do you know? Do you know how to find the notes in the chord and connect them with the notes from the proper scale? That's pretty critical.

Remember you're holding everything together so it's important that you not get too freeform with the rhythm. Some guitarists get bored playing bass and try to throw in some spotlight-on-me riffs to break up the tedium. Don't. The entire arrangement falls on its face when a bassist does that. I tend to think of bass playing as being like knitting (depending on the genre). It's not about doing a few amazing things, it's about doing something that may be simple and arguably boring over and over, all night, without once screwing it up. And therein lies the challenge and the thing that should keep it from becoming boring.

Remember that you're responsible for bass frequencies. Don't feel that you need the mid and treble that are in your usual guitar frequency range in order to have presence. Concentrate on the bass frequencies below all the other stuff and add just enough high to get a little edge. If you play with a pick you might want to roll off some of the highs that are made by the pick attack. If you lock up tight to the bass drum it will provide much of the presence that you need. In other words be tight enough to the kick that kick and bass become one instrument. That doesn't mean you have to play every single note he does and vice versa. Just most of them.

I think with bass, more so than with guitar, space between the notes is critical. If you play everything legato with no space between the notes the overall sound of the band gets leaden, weighed down, lifeless. Space between the notes helps things bounce a little. shorten notes by lifting your finger from the fret board without lifting from the string, or by stopping with your right hand. Sometimes this can take some work to do it without getting a metalic sound as the strings lift off the fret while vibrating. Experiment with different lengths of space to find something that you think works. Along the same lines, depending on the style of music you can get more space/bounce by having less sustain. You can reduce sustain by using deader strings (flatwounds) or muting with your palm. Famous LA session bassist Carol Kaye made a mute out of foam to go under her strings. You've heard her play on a million recordings from the '60s.

If people are dancing, watch the dancers. Whatever you do that makes them shake their booties more is good. Maximum booty shaking is best. This is less of a joke than it sounds. :)

By way of background I've been going back and forth between bass and guitar for about 35 years, playing old-time rock, country, pop, R&B and maybe a little jazz & punkishness thrown in. I'm defintely not an expert on either instrument but the things I mention above have been helpful to me.

You didn't mention what kind of music you'll be playing.

-Scott

[leofenderbender]

Some great stuff in here Scott!

I am slightly out of my element but know enough about theory to fake it. The music we play is contemporary christian. It seems I want to do more rather than less, based upon your suggestion, seems less is key to playing bass better; scales are important too.

If you have any other hints, let me know...

[mcknigs]

Well the classic complaint about guitarists playing bass (as opposed to guitarist/bassists playing bass) is that they often approach it like it's lead guitar with two fewer strings. The approach I've used in the past when giving lessons to beginning bassists is to say that bass parts consist of:

1. Playing the root of the chord

2. Playing other notes in the chord

3. Connecting chord notes with notes in the scale


...in descending order of importance. If you can play the root note of the chord to the same beat as the bass drum, as simple as that may sound, your bass part will be 100 times more effective than playing Yngwie licks on the bass under the rest of the arrangement.

If you've never analyzed bass parts before, take some time over the next couple days to figure out what the bass part does on some songs you know, and which are similar to what you're giong to play. Use that knowledge to create a list of rules for composing bass parts. Apply those rules to the bass parts you create for the songs you're playing.

HTH,

-Scott McKnight

[leofenderbender]

Excellent!

[PB+J]

All good advice--play the root, know the chord tones, lead up and down to the changes


In terms of tone, my theory is I want to sound as little like a guitar as possible. So I play fingerstyle, without a lot of sizzling treble. But don't boost the bass freqs.--that just makes it boomy and indistinct. Bass lives in the low midrange, like around 200-500 hz


In terms of time, what I see in most guitarists playing bass, besides too many notes, is no dynamics. To play with authority, you have to have some dynamics--hit the one and the two of the beat differently, think of them as kick and snare--they should have a different feel and emphasis, just like they do in drums. I often ignore the 2 and the four, the typical snare hits, and instead make them pop out by playing something on the one and the three. That works really well with simple lines with a single, emphatic snare hit. Leaving notes out on the 2 and the 4 emphasizes the feel


Most guitarists just go with even sounding notes--no drive, no authority. When it works right, it'll feel like you and the drummer are driving the car, and the rest of the band just hitched a ride

[mcknigs]

...I often ignore the 2 and the four, the typical snare hits, and instead make them pop out by playing something on the one and the three. That works really well with simple lines with a single, emphatic snare hit. Leaving notes out on the 2 and the 4 emphasizes the feel

That sort of goes to what I said about leaving space. You can play just on 1 and 3 in a couple ways: two half notes; or quarter, rest, quarter, rest. Resting on the snare hits lightens the sound for a moment, so you get a bouncier feel. I've played with some people who don't like too much space in there. If the space seems too exaggerated just lengthen the note and shorten the space, like dotted quarter, 1/8th rest, dotted quarter, 1/8th rest...

-Scott

[jay42]

I'd say

a) learn to play with index and ring fingers
b) listen to bass parts on music you like. You've probably missed alot of subtleties.

[leofenderbender]

You guys rock!

[JohnSS]

I'm in the same boat, currently filling in on bass for C3 Manhattan Church after 8 years of playing keys and lead/slide electric. I think the most important thing is locking in with a drummer. With an experienced drummer, playing bass is a whole other trip - keeping the pocket and groove are crucial. If the drummer tends to speed up or is erratic, more of the responsibility for holding the rhythm together will fall on you.

You can get a big sound out of keeping to Roots, Fifths and Octaves. Placement is the key - your sense of time must be dead on. The more notes you play, sometimes, the smaller your bass part will be.

Listen to Jack Casady, Larry Graham, James Jamerson, Pino Palladino, Randy Jackson (yes the American Idol guy has played on countless hit records), Andy Fraser (Free) and John Paul Jones for a wide spectrum of players with both groove and chops.

[walterw]

+1 all around.

you don't want to be dull-sounding, but you do want an even tone, i.e., one note should not be louder or brighter than the next, unless it's for deliberate effect. hit hard enough for a lively tone, but not so hard that you lose consistency. a good compressor can really help here.

if your time feels tighter and your notes are more even with a pick, use a pick.

don't pluck (or pick) too close to the neck; it may seem like you have a fuller tone, but you'll just be boomy and muddy sounding. pick further back, and set your amp to sound good that way.

when in doubt, go simpler.

i just try to play bass the way i want a bass player to play when i'm playing guitar.

[mcknigs]

[quote=walterw;2609073
i just try to play bass the way i want a bass player to play when i'm playing guitar.[/quote]

It's the bassist version of the "Golden Rule" (i.e., "do unto others..."). :)

-Scott

[lowendgenerator]

If all else fails, turn the tone knob down on the bass and play the root!

[Bassomatic]

bass up, typewriter treble down,

:D

[leofenderbender]

Thanks guys!

The wisdom of the members of this board [and this thread in particular] is outstanding.

We played seven songs - after we were done, the congregation clapped. I must admit I have never seen that happen before - due in large part to your wisdom - I can't thank you enough! and I had a blast.

I can have the job permanently if I want it. Since I was borrowing a friend's Musicman, I just bought this beauty to celebrate...

http://i13.ebayimg.com/06/i/000/a6/2f/0658_1.JPGhttp://i17.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/a6/2f/086e_0.JPGhttp://i11.ebayimg.com/01/i/000/a6/2f/070e_1.JPGhttp://i9.ebayimg.com/04/i/000/a6/2f/06bb_0.JPG

[PinoyBoy]

Whatever you do that makes them shake their booties more is good. Maximum booty shaking is best.

Shaking booties in church would be an interesting sight... :roll

Just kidding. I like all your points.

[musicofanatic5]

My only hint/tip is to keep it in church! If I see you out in the clubs, stealing work from me and other real bass players, you're in big trouble!

[Zhangliqun]

Less is more, most of the time. But not always.

A lot depends on the flavor of the music (some songs completely fall apart if you stray from the main riff for even a split-second) and the point in the song but there are times when you want to soar up to the higher frets and strings for just a moment to get a contrast that really kicks the song in the butt when you come back down. The funkier and/or jazzier the tune is, the more this is the case (though on most swing flavored numbers it is rare when you want to stray away from that steady quarter-note pump).

But it's definitely tricky -- the groove can't be interrupted and the line really-really-really has to work, so it has to be short and to the point. It's not a solo and barely even qualifies as a fill but sometimes it just has to be there or instead of the main riff getting deeper and more intense as the song progresses, it just gets heavy on the ears and boring -- and not just to the bass player. Extended range basses help with this. I have a 6-string that allows me to get up and back very quickly before I get in trouble.

Other things to focus on are the right hand technique, in particular varying the texture. On slow, out-of-time stuff, I like to roll the volume back a bit (which automatically removes some of the treble) and play with the fingers up near or over the fingerboard. This de-emphasizes the attack to the point that the audience hears a smooth warm wash of bass like a fretless or an upright with a bow at a distance. I call that "the invisible bass player" because the effect is much more subconscious than conscious, both on the audience and on the other band members.

[Antero]

The big thing for a guitarist to remember is that, even though it looks kind of like an electric guitar and feels kind of like an electric guitar and plays in a similar way, it is not an electric guitar. It is an entirely different animal; things that sound brilliant on guitar will often sound misplaced and grooveless on bass. Be texturally aware, don't try to fill space the way we guitarists usually do. Restraint is paramount.

Placement of the note with respect to the beat is massively important on bass. A little before, a little behind, right on, with the different pick attacks, that can totally change the rhythmic feel of the song.

[Garbanzoman]

In the same vein as other replies, yup, the bass is a different animal altogether. Don't think like a guitarist, you have to think like a bassist. The kind of bass line a guitarist would play for a given tune sure ain't what the guys quoted below would play!

Listen to those guys - a LOT. And the following should also be required listening: Chuck Rainey, George Porter Jr., Rocco Prestia, Bunny Brunel, Verdine White, Paul McCartney.... the list is pretty huge, actually.

Anyway, learn to think like a bassist, and nobody will get hurt.


Listen to Jack Casady, Larry Graham, James Jamerson, Pino Palladino, Randy Jackson (yes the American Idol guy has played on countless hit records), Andy Fraser (Free) and John Paul Jones for a wide spectrum of players with both groove and chops.

[musicman10_1]

Take everything you know on guitar and add it up. Divide the total by 2 and then play half of that!!

Find the pocket - be humble and shake the foundation!!

[chetsmith]

This has been very helpful to me as well... I have also noticed on this Bass forum that Bass players seem more down to earth and less egoic than most of the guitar players on TGP. Very cool... Thanks again.

[SGNick]

Listen to some BEatles. Paul was a guitarist in the real early days who had to learn to think like a bassiste. Songs like Carry That WEight, Golden SLumber have George on Bass. I think he did rather well myself.

[Den]

This is an awesome thread. I muddle around on the bass now and then and now have a much better idea of what I should aspire to.

Thanks to all of you for sharing your wisdom!

[Mudder]

There is some great info on this topic at talkbass.com as well. I've picked up bass after playing guitar for a long time and it's an interesting transition.