Fractal Audio Axe-FX - this thing is a Monster

[Jay Mitchell]

The standard has 2 filters. Does this mean that the Std can run 2 instances of any filters vs the Ultra's 4, or does this mean that the Std has only 2 different models, or types of filters?The standard has two instances of a block simply called "filter," each of which can be lowpass, highpass, lowshelf, highshelf, peaking, notching, or null (functions as a gain block). In addition, there are two instances of PEQ and two instances of graphic EQ. Plus the preamp sim tone controls, power amp sim advanced controls, etc., etc. If you can't get any response you want with the available filtering, then you've got problems no piece of gear will be able to fix.

Is an auto-filter type available, and can you set it to down-up vs up-down?This is the kind of thing that the Axe has in spades, and that there is no way to appreciate until you start to explore what it can do. The frequency parameter in the Wah block can be assigned to any one of a number of modifiers, including an expression pedal (classic Wah) or the envelope. I.e., you use the Wah block to get an envelope follower ("touch wah") effect. And, since there are two instances, you can have both a standard wah and an envelope follower in one patch, in addition to doing all sorts of things with the block that noone has imagined yet.

The Std has 1 pitch shifter, but apparently isn't as fast as the Ultra and it can only do chromatic harmonies?Uhh, no. The Std. pitch shifter can do detune (two voices), fixed harmony (interval), intelligent harmony, whammy, Octave Divider (also possible with fixed harmony), and a mode called "crystals" that I haven't begun to explore yet.

The Std pitch shifter can literally to a whole-instrument detune (it's in one of the factory presets, No. 23, "Down Whole Step") that is so transparent you won't originally recognize as such. That's a pretty fast pitch shifter.

From what I gather here, the std does 10 different amp models. Uhh, no. There are 48. And the Axe-Fx gives you control of so many parameters (e.g., negative feedback, output impedance, speaker resonant frequency, output transformer low and high cutoff frequencies, etc., etc.) that each one of the 48 can be morphed into a whole universe of tones, corresponding to pretty much any amp sound you can imagine.

On the Wiki it lists tons of amp models and it says nothing about which are available on the Std vs the Ultra.There's no difference. The same models are available on both.

In fact, if you look at the comparison chart and then click on the amp models, it would definitely lead you to believe that both the std & ultra do all od the same amp models.You'd then believe correctly.

So are the new Dumble and Trainwreck models ONLY available on the Ultra?No. See above.

I'm very skeptical about things like this.Me, too. I was fully prepared to take advantage of the 30-day return policy. I'm keeping mine.

None of the rest is relevant. There's no comparison between the Axe-Fx and any other modeler. Based on the quality of the time-based effects alone, combined with its pristine analog I/O and conversions, it should sell for more money, given the going rates for real studio effects gear. But that's not the impressive part of the unit. The amp/cab sims are incredible. I've now uploaded cabinet impulse responses from direct measurements I've taken of my own cabs, which further raises the level of realism.

If you get a chance to actually play with one of these, do yourself a favor and check it out.

[Bryan T]

Yes. That's the Trainwreck sim btw.

I'll stress this is a really crap sounding file compared to what really came out of it. If someone will host it, I'll put it up. Are there better media share places out there than Soundclick to host larger files (that are free?). I'd really like to put the higher res mp3 up somewhere instead.

{EDIT} Ahhh, found a free hosting service. Here's the full res version (still mp3, but MUCH better):

http://www.mediafire.com/?cwzn3hnjwoc

Scott,

Do you have a good reverb that you can put on that? Maybe a convolution reverb so it sounds like it is in a medium-sized room? I'm distracted by how dry/direct it sounds.

Bryan

[Scott Peterson]

Scott,

Do you have a good reverb that you can put on that? Maybe a convolution reverb so it sounds like it is in a medium-sized room? I'm distracted by how dry/direct it sounds.

Bryan

Sure, if I was demonstrating reverb. I personally hate it on my tone, I am not a reverb guitar player. If you want me to do it with more than is on that clip... sure. But when I can.

brain21, you have simply to spend a few hours with the Axe-FX. Every 'issue' you have is simply not in play. There is no comparison to anything before, Roland included. You have real players here - both hardcore modeling types and hardcore tube heads - all saying the same thing. Not paid players or 'demonstrating' artists. This isn't hype. This is real. The other thing to remember is that no one is 'trying' to convince you of anything. We are merely spending the time and effort to tell what our experience with this is. You can't compare listening to clips to playing an amp. Play this thing, then make your mind up.

FWIW, the JBL I have is 25.5" x 15" x 14" and weighs 40lbs.. In other words, it isn't 'big' in any way except for the sound.

[brain21]

Scott, thanks for the replies. You cleared a lot of stuff up for me. It was *somewhere* in this thread that I read that the Std had only 10 amp models. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of a page in the high 60's (thread pagee that is) IIRC, when they were discussing the fact that Cliff stated something to the effect that the Std might not be able to get the (new) Dumble sims in the FW update because of the space (storage) on the unit.

Now I just need to find one that I can get my hands on in the Atlanta area so I can play with it. It would also be nice to hear blind test clips of a real (or good cloned) 'Wreck amp next to the Axe-Fx version.

Cliff, or anyone at Fractal Audio, have you sold any to anyone in the Atlanta area (that would be willing to give me an hour or tow play time on it)?

Thanks,

Brain21

[Jarrett]

Brain, I'd get on the list now if I were you. Then in 4-5 months or so, you can try one in your home for 30 days.

Scott, I tested out the JBL you use with the Line6 X3Live last week and walked away unimpressed with the Line6, but impressed with the JBL. I hear the hiss people are talking about, but I hear that in every wedge I've ever used so it was not a major distraction for me. I plan on getting one from GC or somewhere to use during my 30 day eval of the Axe-FX. I'll probably have a lot of question for you in that month :)

[Scott Peterson]

Scott, thanks for the replies. You cleared a lot of stuff up for me. It was *somewhere* in this thread that I read that the Std had only 10 amp models. It was somewhere in the neighborhood of a page in the high 60's (thread pagee that is) IIRC, when they were discussing the fact that Cliff stated something to the effect that the Std might not be able to get the (new) Dumble sims in the FW update because of the space (storage) on the unit.

Now I just need to find one that I can get my hands on in the Atlanta area so I can play with it. It would also be nice to hear blind test clips of a real (or good cloned) 'Wreck amp next to the Axe-Fx version.

Cliff, or anyone at Fractal Audio, have you sold any to anyone in the Atlanta area (that would be willing to give me an hour or tow play time on it)?

Thanks,

Brain21

You are incorrect about amp models, the Standard can have many more. There is no limit in that capacity, only in how many effects you can play at once and such.

I would post your request for an owner in your area on the Axe-FX board. You'll reach a lot more owners than here.

[Scott Peterson]

Scott,

Do you have a good reverb that you can put on that? Maybe a convolution reverb so it sounds like it is in a medium-sized room? I'm distracted by how dry/direct it sounds.

Bryan

Same clip with some UAD Realverb on there at 6% wet (Bright Ambience Preset).

http://www.mediafire.com/?4ncdjmesejy

[jzgtrguy]

Jay Mitchell,

What is,

"I've now uploaded cabinet impulse responses from direct measurements I've taken of my own cabs, which further raises the level of realism."

Sorry for the newbee questuion. I have no idea what you are talking about here. What and why are you doing this?

I am still on the wait list. I figure I got a couple of months to go. I am having a little trouble selling some of my old gear.

Out,

Jeff

[Scott Peterson]

Now you can add in your own cabinet/speaker/mic impulses to use as a cabinet sim; there are 10 "User" cabs. There is a utility to create them freely available and once moved past beta, will be made simpler.

I have not used them, nor intend to (past trying some that other folks post up and suggest); but that's the meat of it.

[Jay Mitchell]

Sorry for the newbee questuion. I have no idea what you are talking about here. What and why are you doing this?The cabinet sims in the Axe-Fx are based on the impulse response of the target speaker. The factory-supplied IRs were acquired with close-mic testing, which doesn't capture the response of the speaker as the player hears it. I measured speaker cabinets at a typical playing distance (2 meters), generated the IRs, and uploaded them into my Axe-Fx. This capability was just introduced in the new 4.00beta firmware.

The difference is significant. Not only can I now put in any cabinet sim I want, the sound of the sim played back through my FRFR system is virtually identical to the sound I hear when I play through the actual cabinet. I've done direct A/B comparisons with the same cabinet that I tested to get the IR, and it's downright scary how good the sim is.

Edit: I design loudspeakers for a living, and I have the equipment and facility to accomplish the required speaker testing. While it is certainly possible for a DIY type to get very good speaker IRs for this use, it's a nontrivial project.

[jzucker]

Hi Jay,

Could you share those settings? I'd love to try them. Have you generated IR's of "player distance" open back fender style cabs? I think that's sound sweet for clean tones.

[Capn Spanky]

I don't know if these clips have already been posted, but I thought this guy is getting a fairly impressive metal-ish tone.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=706278

Listen to the 2nd and 3rd clip. They are the same tune but #2 has drier rhythm guitar and no lead. #3 has lead guitar and lots of verb slathered on.

[NeveConsole]

Neve,

In the end, the key point to what I am saying (and others are saying) is to not form your opinion until it is an informed one. It's that simple. You can stand outside a Ferrari Carrozzeria Scaglietti and cluck your tongue about how it can't be worth all the money, gets bad gas mileage and you can't fit your kids and groceries in it. But until you've driven it and understood it can you really form your opinion.

You can judge the car from pictures if you want. That's what you are doing by judging clips..


Hi

Im sorry but its not like that..not even remotely like it in comparison


The main purpose of a car it how it drives. Looks are not important in an amp. Its main purpose is how it SOUNDS. The result of an amp is its sound. Its hardly like just looking at a car.

The only reason I can see that you are fighting this impeccable logic is you dont actually want to understand it. If 2 +2 = 4 the answer is 4 regardless of whether or not you want to believe it.

Your really making this harder than it has to be by not admitting you hyped a bit and presented a senario(you have to hear it in the room) that everyone already knows applies to every amp. Whats wrong with backtracking on that? Its no big deal. It doesnt devalue your gear. But you defeat your own argument when you cling to that notion.


The purpose of an amp is to be heard. That why its called an amplifier. Again, its astonishing to even have to say this. The world amps are presented to the world in one of 2 ways...Recorded--which is what soundclips are...or live through the PA

Your trying convince people that sound is not, by far, the crux of an amp. Feel is a distand second from Sound. Every tube amp has a certain feel and when buying one I think you would "Listen" to hear which amp you want to buy

No one listening to us cares what we feel like. They care what we sound like. Now we can dance around all the comments made that this thing has to be HEARD in person--but thats what was said. We cant pretend we were talking about intangables when in fact we were talking about Why the clips didnt match the hype---the response was --you have to hear it in the room--not feel it

If you guys dont want to admit you were hyping and making excuses as to why the sound didnt match that hype...fine. But consider that no one would even have a reason to challange this unit if people werent making such claims. You just open it up to criticism.

[MikeyG]

Scott's excited about a new gear purchase, and he's sharing his excitement.

This isn't a court of law, where there's a burden of proof. He likes it, you may not, but don't try to take him to 'jail' for it.

He doesn't owe you, or anyone, a retraction. You're way overstepping.

[Stratosphere]

<snip>
Your trying convince people that sound is not, by far, the crux of an amp. Feel is a distand second from Sound. Every tube amp has a certain feel and when buying one I think you would "Listen" to hear which amp you want to buy

No one listening to us cares what we feel like. They care what we sound like. Now we can dance around all the comments made that this thing has to be HEARD in person--but thats what was said. We cant pretend we were talking about intangables when in fact we were talking about Why the clips didnt match the hype---the response was --you have to hear it in the room--not feel it</snip>

You seem to be forgetting that the way an amp sounds, in part, has to do with the performance of the player. Sometimes amp behavior, how it cleans up or grinds according to picking attack, how it feeds back when interfacing with pickups, how different amps respond to subtle tweaks when playing the instrument can help provide an enthusiastic performance. A good performance makes for a good recording, yes?

If we actually have something that can emulate several different amps I don't understand how feel could be a distant second if various amp selections have individual responses associated with that type of amp. Have you spent any time with modelers or are you just too cool for school and aren't aware of this usual limitation? Most any amp can be made to sound good on a recording if well tracked, even modelers & emulators. But if the feel and response is there in a digital unit, whatever the playing situation, IMO that's obviously pretty much the holy grail since no one has quite accomplished it before.

If so, it sure as hell deserves to be hyped.

[mitch236]

I only read a couple of dozen of pages but I do have a couple of questions. I have had a GNX4 in the past and found it somewhat lacking in realism. Now this unit has me thinking about modelers again. Where can I hear and play one? Are they going to be commercially available at local retailers at some point?

[Scott Peterson]

Hi

Im sorry but its not like that..not even remotely like it in comparison


The main purpose of a car it how it drives. Looks are not important in an amp. Its main purpose is how it SOUNDS. The result of an amp is its sound. Its hardly like just looking at a car.

The only reason I can see that you are fighting this impeccable logic is you dont actually want to understand it. If 2 +2 = 4 the answer is 4 regardless of whether or not you want to believe it.

Your really making this harder than it has to be by not admitting you hyped a bit and presented a senario(you have to hear it in the room) that everyone already knows applies to every amp. Whats wrong with backtracking on that? Its no big deal. It doesnt devalue your gear. But you defeat your own argument when you cling to that notion.


The purpose of an amp is to be heard. That why its called an amplifier. Again, its astonishing to even have to say this. The world amps are presented to the world in one of 2 ways...Recorded--which is what soundclips are...or live through the PA

Your trying convince people that sound is not, by far, the crux of an amp. Feel is a distand second from Sound. Every tube amp has a certain feel and when buying one I think you would "Listen" to hear which amp you want to buy

No one listening to us cares what we feel like. They care what we sound like. Now we can dance around all the comments made that this thing has to be HEARD in person--but thats what was said. We cant pretend we were talking about intangables when in fact we were talking about Why the clips didnt match the hype---the response was --you have to hear it in the room--not feel it

If you guys dont want to admit you were hyping and making excuses as to why the sound didnt match that hype...fine. But consider that no one would even have a reason to challange this unit if people werent making such claims. You just open it up to criticism.

Neve,

You are missing two very basic issues.

A) I am not arguing or hyping anything. I don't feel any need nor do I want to convince you (or anyone) of anything. I don't care what you believe, hear, or feel. I am sharing my experiences and opinions. Not trying to influence yours. It isn't about you.

B) There is no challenge. You either read, hear and are interested or not. End of story. Thank you.

[Scott Peterson]

I only read a couple of dozen of pages but I do have a couple of questions. I have had a GNX4 in the past and found it somewhat lacking in realism. Now this unit has me thinking about modelers again. Where can I hear and play one? Are they going to be commercially available at local retailers at some point?

I seriously doubt they'll be at any retailers in the foreseeable future, I'd chime in over at the Axe-FX forum and see if there is a member near you that is willing to let you check it out if you are interested.

[stratzrus]

...Why the clips didnt match the hype... If casually recorded clips were able to best represent the sound an amp can make there would be no need for recording engineers.

Clips, far more than professional recordings, reflect the aesthetics and skills/limitations of the person making the clip.

In addition, the Axe FX is relatively new and is slowly reaching the hands of those who can get the most out of it.

If you have been following the clips, many are getting better and better, and I personally feel the potential of the Axe FX is just beginning to get scratched.

I have said this before regarding very expensivwe tube amps; clips are not a good way to evaluate an amp.

With that said, in the last couple of weeks I've heard some clips that I've really liked, and have no doubt that I'll enjoy years of satisfying recording experiences once my Ultra arrives.

I have been doing multitrack recording for twenty years and don't expect that everyone else's clips will satisfy my personal sense of aesthetics. I'm sure you remember when people said that CDs were crap due to the learning curve and inconsistent quality of engineering when they were first introduced.

If people who owned them were dissatisfied with the Axe FX in large numbers that would be one thing, but the vast, vast majority love it. Evaluations of clips devoid of knowledge about how they were recorded, or how the patches were constructed are meaningless as far as I'm concerned.

...and I'm sorry to disagree with you Neve, but feel is very important in relation to digital amps, it affects your ability to express yourself and that may be as important, if not more so, than a particular tone.

stratzrus

[electronpirate]

Your really making this harder than it has to be by not admitting you hyped a bit and presented a senario(you have to hear it in the room) that everyone already knows applies to every amp. Whats wrong with backtracking on that? Its no big deal. It doesnt devalue your gear. But you defeat your own argument when you cling to that notion.


The purpose of an amp is to be heard. That why its called an amplifier. Again, its astonishing to even have to say this. The world amps are presented to the world in one of 2 ways...Recorded--which is what soundclips are...or live through the PA

Your trying convince people that sound is not, by far, the crux of an amp. Feel is a distand second from Sound. Every tube amp has a certain feel and when buying one I think you would "Listen" to hear which amp you want to buy

No one listening to us cares what we feel like. They care what we sound like. Now we can dance around all the comments made that this thing has to be HEARD in person--but thats what was said. We cant pretend we were talking about intangables when in fact we were talking about Why the clips didnt match the hype---the response was --you have to hear it in the room--not feel it

If you guys dont want to admit you were hyping and making excuses as to why the sound didnt match that hype...fine. But consider that no one would even have a reason to challange this unit if people werent making such claims. You just open it up to criticism.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!

Again. NOBODY IS TRYING TO SELL YOU ON ANYTHING (repeat 10 times in your Troll cave).

We're merely expressing our impressions...those who OWN it, or have HEARD it. It's the people who dismiss (by posting) this with a smug 'it's just a modeler...the clips sound like crap...my Blues Jr. blows it away' and haven't played it are immediately dismissed.

Don't like it, don't post. Pretty easy instructions to follow. Plenty of other things to talk about on this board. Or go back to Harmony Central whence you came...

EP

[Jarrett]

You know this thing is going to cause problems. Anything that could eclipse the tube amp as the best sounding tool for a guitar player will catch much flack.

[MikeyG]

You know this thing is going to cause problems. Anything that could eclipse the tube amp as the best sounding tool for a guitar player will catch much flack.

I've chatted privately with many Axe FX owners. We all love it, and we're keeping it.

However, not one of my friends has admitted that it's better than a tube amp. While it's excellent, and a giant leap for modeling, it's not better than any of the tube amps I own. In my opinion.

So at least for me, it hasn't equaled or eclipsed any great tube amp.

However, I tend to plug into the Axe FX more than the other amps, simply because I can have whatever tone I want, at any time. None of that, shut this amp off, turns this other one on thing. And there are absolutely no apologies to be made on the tone.

The unit records like a monster, IMO. To get the sounds that it does, direct, it's unbelievable to me.

Clips. Eh, whatever. Any issues with clips have more to do with the producer, than the gear. There's lots of amateur recording enthusiasts that can do disservice to any piece of gear. It's not a tube vs digital issue.

[Den]

Brad Paisley, interviewed in the December issue of Guitar Player talks about the recording process:

"... For me that's the most frustrating thing about making records. I wish everybody could walk into the studio, and hear those amps, because you can never get that on tape. No matter how good it sounds on a record, man, you need to have been there in the room. You can't get an AC30, Trainwreck, or Dr. Z squeezed into iPod earbuds, or even stereo speakers."

Does this sound like hype as well?

[jzgtrguy]

Great points all. How can a modeled amp be better than the amp it is modeling? That is an abortion of logic. It can be as good as but not better. Am I missing something here? I like what you said about the clips.

I am still on the wait list for an Ultra. Still have not been able to sell any of my gear to free up some cash.

Out,

Jeff

I've chatted privately with many Axe FX owners. We all love it, and we're keeping it.

However, not one of my friends has admitted that it's better than a tube amp. While it's excellent, and a giant leap for modeling, it's not better than any of the tube amps I own. In my opinion.

So at least for me, it hasn't equaled or eclipsed any great tube amp.

However, I tend to plug into the Axe FX more than the other amps, simply because I can have whatever tone I want, at any time. None of that, shut this amp off, turns this other one on thing. And there are absolutely no apologies to be made on the tone.

The unit records like a monster, IMO. To get the sounds that it does, direct, it's unbelievable to me.

Clips. Eh, whatever. Any issues with clips have more to do with the producer, than the gear. There's lots of amateur recording enthusiasts that can do disservice to any piece of gear. It's not a tube vs digital issue.

[jzucker]

However, not one of my friends has admitted that it's better than a tube amp. While it's excellent, and a giant leap for modeling, it's not better than any of the tube amps I own. In my opinion.

I'd like to qualify your statement (from my perspective). I believe it *is* as good as any tube amp I've owned and I've owned some damn good ones. However, the conundrum you get into is in comparing it in an A/B test with said amps.

A fuchs is going to sound better than anything else at being a fuchs. Likewise for two rock, fender, etc. The mistake is trying force the axefx into a square hole. It's best at sounding like itself. Once you get used to the fact that it doesn't sound exactly like a fender or a dumble, you realize that it has 10x as many attributes that the fender and the dumble can't touch - AND THAT'S A FACT, JACK!

[Scott Peterson]

Great points all. How can a modeled amp be better than the amp it is modeling? That is an abortion of logic. It can be as good as but not better. Am I missing something here? I like what you said about the clips.

I am still on the wait list for an Ultra. Still have not been able to sell any of my gear to free up some cash.

Out,

Jeff

Here's the rub: I like it better than tube amps. I don't care what anyone else thinks. About that, or me.

The Axe-FX uses modeling as a starting point, but ****IT DOES NOT MODEL SPECIFIC AMPS IN THE QUEST TO REPLICATE THE SAME EXACT RESPONSE AS THE SPECIFIC AMP*****

Ahem. (I promise not to yell anymore.... well, maybe a little, but it's good natured yelling....)

In other words, since I've said this a bunch of times, the modeling is there as a jumping off point. You then go in and - using the tools the Axe-FX offers you - create your *own* tones that have a footing in this amp or that amp, yes, but your OWN tone. If you use the Trainwreck sim, that doesn't mean you are playing a Trainwreck, nor a model of one. You are using a basic footprint of what that amp sounds like to CREATE YOUR OWN TONE.

Burp. Sorry for yelling. :D

Just to be clear, it is not a modeler. It is not. Not. No. It uses modeling, but it is not a modeler.

Ahhhh.

[Jarrett]

That's what I see in this product, the first step away from modeling. Where all the others stop at an attempt at digital cloning, it appears that the Axe-FX is giving you a blank canvas. If you can think it, you can hear it sort of approach. The Egnater Mod50 does this in the tube world and what I have read and heard so far, that's what I hear the Axe-FX doing in the digital world. The difference is there are much fewer limits in the digital world than in the PTP tube world.

That Reinhold Bogner interview really opened my eyes to that. PTP tube amps are done. Builders have taken them as far as they can go. Now its time to start in a new direction with equally as skilled and creative minds in the digital realm. Line6 got the ball rolling, it appears Cliff is the first in the "Boutique Digital" realm taking to the next level. And I am sure more will follow in his footsteps going forward.

[jzgtrguy]

Thanks Jay!

I do not have the capability to that sort of thing. I do not even have any recording anything. Just a player. Is it possible to share your work with others?? Is there a way to down load that technology to another Axe-FX? I have done that with my MagicStomp. It is possible to share patches. Looking forward to getting rid of that.

Thanks again,

Jeff

The cabinet sims in the Axe-Fx are based on the impulse response of the target speaker. The factory-supplied IRs were acquired with close-mic testing, which doesn't capture the response of the speaker as the player hears it. I measured speaker cabinets at a typical playing distance (2 meters), generated the IRs, and uploaded them into my Axe-Fx. This capability was just introduced in the new 4.00beta firmware.

The difference is significant. Not only can I now put in any cabinet sim I want, the sound of the sim played back through my FRFR system is virtually identical to the sound I hear when I play through the actual cabinet. I've done direct A/B comparisons with the same cabinet that I tested to get the IR, and it's downright scary how good the sim is.

Edit: I design loudspeakers for a living, and I have the equipment and facility to accomplish the required speaker testing. While it is certainly possible for a DIY type to get very good speaker IRs for this use, it's a nontrivial project.

[stratzrus]

The cabinet sims in the Axe-Fx are based on the impulse response of the target speaker. The factory-supplied IRs were acquired with close-mic testing, which doesn't capture the response of the speaker as the player hears it. I measured speaker cabinets at a typical playing distance (2 meters), generated the IRs, and uploaded them into my Axe-Fx. This capability was just introduced in the new 4.00beta firmware.

The difference is significant. Not only can I now put in any cabinet sim I want, the sound of the sim played back through my FRFR system is virtually identical to the sound I hear when I play through the actual cabinet. I've done direct A/B comparisons with the same cabinet that I tested to get the IR, and it's downright scary how good the sim is.

Edit: I design loudspeakers for a living, and I have the equipment and facility to accomplish the required speaker testing. While it is certainly possible for a DIY type to get very good speaker IRs for this use, it's a nontrivial project.


It's posts like this that make me realize the potential of the Axe FX in the hands of someone who knows what they are doing...I'm really looking forward to the learning process.

Cliff is to be applauded, standing ovation really, for the continuing development of the firmware and his dedication and sensitivity to the needs of the end users.

stratzrus

[javajunkie]

Thanks Jay!

I do not have the capability to that sort of thing. I do not even have any recording anything. Just a player. Is it possible to share your work with others?? Is there a way to down load that technology to another Axe-FX? I have done that with my MagicStomp. It is possible to share patches. Looking forward to getting rid of that.

Thanks again,

Jeff

Yes, Cliff has a tool for loading new speaker impulses into the axe-fx. All you need is the wave file, the conversion program, and way to load the converted file via midi (midiox or the like).

[Scoredog]

I only read a couple of dozen of pages but I do have a couple of questions. I have had a GNX4 in the past and found it somewhat lacking in realism. Now this unit has me thinking about modelers again. Where can I hear and play one? Are they going to be commercially available at local retailers at some point?

You sir have a lot of reading to catch up on if you want to taken seriously on this thread! a couple of dozen...PEON!

I am afraid you need to find someone who has one. Where are you located?

To those who think Neve is trolling I disagree. He is making arguments he needs to make. Untill he has the proof that satisfies him he will remain unconvinced and that is fair enough. I don't feel any malice from his posts.

[mitch236]

I'm located in south Florida on the east coast. I would love to hear one.

[Ben F.]

I don't think Neve is trolling either, but the whole clips thing is tiresome because it comes up so often. I mean, how many pissing matches have there been on the topic at TGP?

It's understandable that people don't want to put serious money into a piece of equipment only have their hopes dashed. The industry has a poor reputation for over-promising and under-delivering. We'd all love to have just the right tone generator that is light, portable, offers every beautiful sound under the heavens, and sounds orgasmic at any volume. Still, I don't see Scott claiming any of this.

You'd like to hear enough from a clip to get snapshot of the processor's capabilities and know if it's worth bothering with, but that snapshot is never going to "prove" a behavior or rule out irritating artifacts that are symptomatic of a whole signal chain. It'll tell you the thing is in the ballpark. I don't see (hear, rather) any problem with Scott's clips. If you consider them in conjunction with all the others, then they show a whole lot of potential without "proving" anything beyond "it doesn't suck."

I've heard enough to know that a Fractal product is in my future. I just don't have a pressing need for one. And I'd prefer a combo.

-Ben

[AndrewSimon]

To those who think Neve is trolling I disagree. He is making arguments he needs to make. Untill he has the proof that satisfies him he will remain unconvinced and that is fair enough. I don't feel any malice from his posts.

I agree, I was in his shoes not to long ago.
But after playing the first 3 notes on the AXE-FX it was clear as day and night and I had no more questions or arguments.
PLAY IT!... and you will know!

:rolleyes:

[Den]

...

To those who think Neve is trolling I disagree. He is making arguments he needs to make. Untill he has the proof that satisfies him he will remain unconvinced and that is fair enough. I don't feel any malice from his posts.

Remaining unconvinced and arguing your position is certainly not trolling. He has every right to continue to search for proof. (Here's a wild idea ... why not actually get his hands on the product to form a meaningful opinion?)

But why the insulting remarks? You might feel malice if his posts were suggesting you were somehow dishonest or stupid. Is there any justification for that?

[highfidelity66]

A quick question that has nothing to do with clips, proof of tone or why the axe fx is superior or inferior...... I am currently on the waiting list coming up now on 3 months and I was wondering, can anyone comment on the brown sound amp and plexi tones in this box? also, how do the reverbs sound?? Thanks Guys!

[Jarrett]

It's understandable that people don't want to put serious money into a piece of equipment only have their hopes dashed. The industry has a poor reputation for over-promising and under-delivering.

That's the beauty of this thing. I remember when the Komet amps hit years back. Those clips were stunning. I dropped $3600 on one and when I got it, it sounded terrible to my ears. One of my least favorite amps of all time. Now what? I'm stuck with it and out $3600. They got me.

Not the case here. I have 30 days to put the Axe-FX through any test I want and send it back with a full refund. Very few tube amp builders will offer you that.

[Scott Peterson]

A quick question that has nothing to do with clips, proof of tone or why the axe fx is superior or inferior...... I am currently on the waiting list coming up now on 3 months and I was wondering, can anyone comment on the brown sound amp and plexi tones in this box? also, how do the reverbs sound?? Thanks Guys!

The Brown Sound preset is the one that when I first got the box, I was giving it the 'dial through the presets' thing.... and I hate presets. I was digging the efx, just having fun. Then I hit the "Brown Sound" preset and for the first time in my life, I got very excited about a preset; that did *it* for me. If you haven't done so, seek out Cliff's take on "Ain't Talkin' 'bout Love" in his sound files off the Fractal Audio site. He's nailed the tone in this box so perfectly that you'll have tears in your eyes if that's the tone you were looking for.

I dig the Plexi stuff and have a preset that sort of apes my beloved Germino Club 40 tone in that vein. The effects - reverbs, delays and much more - are natural, and neutral souding but on a par with Eventide and Lexicon. Different 'flavor' to them, less 'sheeny' sounding IMHO, but the same depth and realism IMHO.

[Auge]

A quick question that has nothing to do with clips, proof of tone or why the axe fx is superior or inferior...... I am currently on the waiting list coming up now on 3 months and I was wondering, can anyone comment on the brown sound amp and plexi tones in this box? also, how do the reverbs sound?? Thanks Guys!

the brown amp was my first favorite amp which i began to work with on AFX but now i use a lot different ones.
the FX quality is superiour and sometimes i must withstand not to use more.
i was a ENGL tubeguy till i got the AFX.
now i run the AFX through a fullrange setup w/two dB opera activemonitors.

i am not a plexiguy but the JCM800 sounds also great. especially when you crank the powerampsection.

[Ben F.]

That's the beauty of this thing.... I have 30 days to put the Axe-FX through any test I want and send it back with a full refund. Very few tube amp builders will offer you that.

I agree it's a great policy. Unfortunately, similar policies have done nothing to quell uninformed naysaying about Pritchard amps, and I doubt it'll do anything to silence would-be Axe-FX detractors either.

-Ben

[MikeyG]

While the Axe doesn't necessarily attempt to 100% model any given amp, it's certainly shooting for that ballpark.

But I'm not really concerned about that.

What matter to me are a couple things where tube amps still have a slight edge:

Sweet top end
Ultra-fine grain
Wide bandwidth

We're talking very minor differences here ... differences that don't matter to some, but are HUGE deals for certain people.

I can't seem to get the sweet top end of a Bruno, where it's bright and sweet at the same time, and has that delicious 'pop' to the end of your pick stroke.

The Plexi style amps I've played and owned have that super fine grained 'dirty clean' sound. I can't get quite as close with the Axe.

The Wreck clone I have has the biggest, widest bandwidth of any amp I've owned. The Wreck model is *REALLY* cool, but it can't do what my clone does.

So, in summary, I'm putting it up against the best of my current stable of tube amps, and it can hang pretty well.

That said, this box is so deep, there may be ways to address these ever so slight differences ... I just haven't dug deep enough yet. (I haven't experimented with the various filters and EQ options)

I still maintain that it's very close, and will some day equal tube amps, but still has a slight room for improvement.

[highfidelity66]

Scott, now you have just made the wait even harder! The evh ball park is just what I was hoping for with that amp model and I really do like big open natural sounding reverb. With the plexi models i hope it can get a close hendrix clean/ on the edge of breakup and then maybe just maybe...... if I use a fuzz on the front end......... Im probably hoping for too much tho! But if it can get close, my total search may be over finally! P.s. does the univibe sound decent??

[bluesmostly]

Scott, now you have just made the wait even harder! The evh ball park is just what I was hoping for with that amp model and I really do like big open natural sounding reverb. With the plexi models i hope it can get a close hendrix clean/ on the edge of breakup and then maybe just maybe...... if I use a fuzz on the front end......... Im probably hoping for too much tho! But if it can get close, my total search may be over finally! P.s. does the univibe sound decent??

You are gonna luv it Hifi, any tone you can imagine is in there if you dig into it. You won't need any pedals or effects to go with the AXE either - it's all in there. What a blast!

[javajunkie]

While the Axe doesn't necessarily attempt to 100% model any given amp, it's certainly shooting for that ballpark.

But I'm not really concerned about that.

What matter to me are a couple things where tube amps still have a slight edge:

Sweet top end
Ultra-fine grain
Wide bandwidth

We're talking very minor differences here ... differences that don't matter to some, but are HUGE deals for certain people.

I can't seem to get the sweet top end of a Bruno, where it's bright and sweet at the same time, and has that delicious 'pop' to the end of your pick stroke.

The Plexi style amps I've played and owned have that super fine grained 'dirty clean' sound. I can't get quite as close with the Axe.

The Wreck clone I have has the biggest, widest bandwidth of any amp I've owned. The Wreck model is *REALLY* cool, but it can't do what my clone does.

So, in summary, I'm putting it up against the best of my current stable of tube amps, and it can hang pretty well.

That said, this box is so deep, there may be ways to address these ever so slight differences ... I just haven't dug deep enough yet. (I haven't experimented with the various filters and EQ options)

I still maintain that it's very close, and will some day equal tube amps, but still has a slight room for improvement.

I think that is a fair and accurate assessment. I would add that although my Shiva and XTC have a certain something the axefx is just slightly lacking, the consistency and convience more than make up for it to the point I don't care.

[jzgtrguy]

Won't need any pedals? What overdrive pedals does it offer? I have an OCD and a Zendrive. I have read that the AXE-FX takes pedals as well as any amp. So I was going to hang on to those but if they were already in there................

Out,
Jeff

You are gonna luv it Hifi, any tone you can imagine is in there if you dig into it. You won't need any pedals or effects to go with the AXE either - it's all in there. What a blast!

[AndrewSimon]

Won't need any pedals? What overdrive pedals does it offer? I have an OCD and a Zendrive. I have read that the AXE-FX takes pedals as well as any amp. So I was going to hang on to those but if they were already in there................

Out,
Jeff

Today I sold my last two pedals.
I wanted to keep all my Xotic pedals and even thought the overdrives inside the AXE-FX don't sound exactly like the Xotic they sound just as good if not better... anyway I found myself reaching for a AXE-FX gain pedals most of the time while the Xotic ones just sit collecting dust.
I suggest you keep your pedals for now but most likely you will end up selling them eventually.

:D

[bluesmostly]

Won't need any pedals? What overdrive pedals does it offer? I have an OCD and a Zendrive. I have read that the AXE-FX takes pedals as well as any amp. So I was going to hang on to those but if they were already in there................

Out,
Jeff

Yup, the overdrives and effects in this unit are stellar! I just have a midi controller on the floor now. It is "game over" as Scott says when it comes to looking for sounds outside the box.

Like Java said, I have some great amps and it doesn't quite sound like them, it is not worse, but different, and the versatility and convenience make it my go to rig every time.

[jzgtrguy]

Simon,

Good advice. I have yet to play one of these things and it just seems to get better and better. The skeptic in me keeps saying nothing can be this good but I sure look forward to the day when I get a call or email that the ball is rolling. Concerned about the $$$'s but I still have a month or two to sell my old amps.

Out.

Jeff


Today I sold my last two pedals.
I wanted to keep all my Xotic pedals and even thought the overdrives inside the AXE-FX don't sound exactly like the Xotic they sound just as good if not better... anyway I found myself reaching for a AXE-FX gain pedals most of the time while the Xotic ones just sit collecting dust.
I suggest you keep your pedals for now but most likely you will end up selling them eventually.

:D

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

I just spent about 30 minutes on Fractal Audio's website listening to clips and holy CRAP ! .... this waiting period is killing me.

I just emailed them and asked how long the wait is? :mad:

[Ray Gianelli]

I'm located in south Florida on the east coast. I would love to hear one.

I've been on the waiting list for about 2 months now. I suggest if you're interested you get on too; you can always decline if you've tried one and decide you didn't like it.

Where in south Florida are you located?

[mitch236]

In Delray Beach. I was thinking about using the 30 day trial but I only have my "regular" guitar amp and this probably wouldn't sound very good through it. I would think you would need a sort of stereo system to really hear this product. Still, I might add my name since if it does blow me away, I would be able to sell alot of gear and recoup some cash!

[Ray Gianelli]

I'm in Lake Worth... I'll let you know when I get mine.

For the skeptics and naysayers, here are my thoughts FWIW:

I don't own this yet, but with a 30 day trial period I've got nothing to lose. I could even sell it at a profit if I was so inclined.

Do things get hyped on TGP? Sure, but there's usually a reason. I became active here when Fulltone OCD fever was at it's peak. I bought one. Did it live up to the hype? Of course not; nothing could. But it is a good pedal, and I still use it. Note though, that not everyone who bought one was enamored of it. I've yet to see anyone who bought an Axe-fx who didn't love it. That's pretty telling to me.

I've stated this before, but I think it bears repeating. Clips are interesting, but I've got to live with a piece of gear before I'll know if it's going to work for me. I can't even go into a store and try something and determine if it'll work. I've got to rehearse with it and gig it to know. That's just me.

Like my old man used to say, don't knock it if you haven't tried it :)

[electronpirate]

Do things get hyped on TGP? Sure, but there's usually a reason. I became active here when Fulltone OCD fever was at it's peak. I bought one. Did it live up to the hype? Of course not; nothing could. But it is a good pedal, and I still use it. Note though, that not everyone who bought one was enamored of it. I've yet to see anyone who bought an Axe-fx who didn't love it. That's pretty telling to me.

I've stated this before, but I think it bears repeating. Clips are interesting, but I've got to live with a piece of gear before I'll know if it's going to work for me. I can't even go into a store and try something and determine if it'll work. I've got to rehearse with it and gig it to know. That's just me.

Like my old man used to say, don't knock it if you haven't tried it :)

There HAVE been a few folks who have tried it, and found it wasn't what they wanted. So no, not EVERYONE loves this. But the reasons they didn't keep it were due to considerations OUTSIDE of tone (i.e. I don't want to tweak, I just don't NEED that much, etc...) As far as I know, universally those who have spent anything more than 5 minutes with this thing agrees the tone is stellar.

A longer list are the folks who got a standard, and after some time, moved up to the Ultra!

EP

[flash1]

I've followed this thread from the very early on and have been on the wait list for about 2 1/2 months. There has been a lot of verbage about amps, cabs, and setups but I have a question for people who actually own one; Do your guitars keep their own unique character as much as a traditional tube amp? I'm sure this technology is wonderful and worth investigating, but are my single coils, p90's and humbuckers going to lose some of their defining tone? Could you take one hybrid type guitar and cover a lot of this ground? Thanks in advance.

[Scott Peterson]

flash1, check my little demo and see for yourself. That's one guitar, S/S/H and I can do a lot with it.

Every nuance of your playing, pickups and guitar comes through IMHO.

[deadringer]

I think it's all about perspective. Everybody has different needs and uses. For me, even after six months of use the Axe Fx is still the best choice for me. Even if my budget was bigger and I had a tech and roadies at my disposal it would be my first choice, given the situations I play in.

I've had tube amps in the past, and there were things I loved and hated about them. I hear a lot of talk about modelers in general getting X% of this and X% of that but think this has a lot to do with the situations you play in.

I play in tiny little places with tiny little stages for people that don't want huge volumes. By the time I choked down a tube amp to the volumes I'm allowed to play at, tube amps weren't much fun. I used 50 watters (or less), I used Hotplates, small cabinets, hell I tried everything I could think of to get that wonderful blooming tube amp sound at low volumes. Add to that the fact that on any given night I could be playing anything for Stevie Ray Vaughan to Metallica to Faith Hill to Pink covers and I had to head for modelers.

I picked up a Vetta II and was miserable. I tried like hell (in fact tried it twice) to live with the tone and the feel and was completely unsatisfied. Knowing my options were choked down tube amp or plastic modeler made me seriously consider quitting the whole live gig entirely.

I heard about the Axe Fx on HRI and after some clips I heard from Riffy over there I started digging in to research and the more I heard about it the more I liked what I heard. I went on the waiting list and kept going with the Vetta.

Initially, I was still pretty skeptical but figured I'd try the 30 day thing and if it wasn't better than my Vetta rig, I'd just send it back and keep looking. I remember telling my wife that if the models were on par with the Vetta it would still at least be an upgrade fx wise (I was dying for an intelligent harmonizer). I had no idea what I was getting.

Six months later and I have no regrets at all about it. I get a ton of different tones, it's in a small and easy to use rig, and it feels and sounds great.

[deadringer]

I've followed this thread from the very early on and have been on the wait list for about 2 1/2 months. There has been a lot of verbage about amps, cabs, and setups but I have a question for people who actually own one; Do your guitars keep their own unique character as much as a traditional tube amp? I'm sure this technology is wonderful and worth investigating, but are my single coils, p90's and humbuckers going to lose some of their defining tone? Could you take one hybrid type guitar and cover a lot of this ground? Thanks in advance.

How's this? I had two Ibanez S series 7 string guitars. They both had stock pickups and were set up almost exactly the same. Same wood, neck construction, both with locking trems, etc.

I could hear the difference between the two of them.

[bluesmostly]

[quote=deadringer;3173344]

I play in tiny little places with tiny little stages for people that don't want huge volumes. By the time I choked down a tube amp to the volumes I'm allowed to play at, tube amps weren't much fun. I used 50 watters (or less), I used Hotplates, small cabinets, hell I tried everything I could think of to get that wonderful blooming tube amp sound at low volumes. Add to that the fact that on any given night I could be playing anything for Stevie Ray Vaughan to Metallica to Faith Hill to Pink covers and I had to head for modelers.

This is my experience exactly. Lots of tones to cover and usually playing small spaces on small stages at low volumes. The AXE FX really works, I am thrilled to be done looking for tone solutions.

[stratzrus]

I can't even go into a store and try something and determine if it'll work. I've got to rehearse with it and gig it to know.

+1

Several times I went into a store and tried something only to be really dissapointed when I got it home, ending up scratching my head and wondering, "What was I thinking???!!!" :jo

The perfect example of this was the Ovation Breadwinner that I bought when they first came out. For reasons I can't explain, I liked it at store volumes (with much other ambient noise) but after a day or two of having it at home I really couldn't stand it's "tone".

As a result, I think it's wonderful that the Axe FX comes with a trial period that's long enough for customers to make an informed decision about whether or not it will work for them.

In addition to the quality of the product, the manufacturer's support has been exemplary as far as I'm concerned, and is not insignificant when making a decision about whether or not to purchase one.

stratzrus

[highfidelity66]

Blues thanks for the reply. I cant wait to get this unit, I have tried in the past and owned the line 6 ax 212, ax2, flextone, rocktron voodoo valve, digitech rp 1, pod, pod 2, pod xt live, boss gt3, and other processors that always have left me somehow feeling something was just missing. I am not afraid to try the current technology. I am just so hoping to finally be over the quest for a good passable tone at bedroom volumes, through headphones or when I am jamming with my friends... The axe seems to be totally what I have been hoping for all along! Does it do a good blues tone as well? Is there any where that there is a pre set chart?

[jzgtrguy]

Scott,

I agree but..................I think we are arguing semantics here. It is digital. It does use algorithms 0001110010101011000111110000101.
It models schematics, components, valves, the actual amp, speakers, cabinets, Mic's etc. etc. they all get boiled down to ones and zeros. The models may not be "digital clones" with all the failures of the original designs and they may be great "jumping off points' But models they are. I guess it all boils down to how you define the words "digital modeling". I think you said it earlier that the AXE-FX just takes things to a higher level. When you think about it the human ear only has so much resolution or definition. We cannot hear what a dog or a bat can. Eventually with enough horse power and enough resolution this technology will be virtually (pun intended) indistinguishable for the real McCoy (not the amp modeled....... not a clone........I get it) but analog designs in general.

Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Out,

Jeff


Here's the rub: I like it better than tube amps. I don't care what anyone else thinks. About that, or me.

The Axe-FX uses modeling as a starting point, but ****IT DOES NOT MODEL SPECIFIC AMPS IN THE QUEST TO REPLICATE THE SAME EXACT RESPONSE AS THE SPECIFIC AMP*****

Ahem. (I promise not to yell anymore.... well, maybe a little, but it's good natured yelling....)

In other words, since I've said this a bunch of times, the modeling is there as a jumping off point. You then go in and - using the tools the Axe-FX offers you - create your *own* tones that have a footing in this amp or that amp, yes, but your OWN tone. If you use the Trainwreck sim, that doesn't mean you are playing a Trainwreck, nor a model of one. You are using a basic footprint of what that amp sounds like to CREATE YOUR OWN TONE.

Burp. Sorry for yelling. :D

Just to be clear, it is not a modeler. It is not. Not. No. It uses modeling, but it is not a modeler.

Ahhhh.

[Scott Peterson]

Scott,

I agree but..................I think we are arguing semantics here. It is digital. It does use algorithms 0001110010101011000111110000101.
It models schematics, components, valves, the actual amp, speakers, cabinets, Mic's etc. etc. they all get boiled down to ones and zeros. The models may not be "digital clones" with all the failures of the original designs and they may be great "jumping off points' But models they are. I guess it all boils down to how you define the words "digital modeling". I think you said it earlier that the AXE-FX just takes things to a higher level. When you think about it the human ear only has so much resolution or definition. We cannot hear what a dog or a bat can. Eventually with enough horse power and enough resolution this technology will be virtually (pun intended) indistinguishable for the real McCoy (not the amp modeled....... not a clone........I get it) but analog designs in general.

Thats my story and I am sticking to it.

Out,

Jeff

Jeff,

It isn't a modeler in FUNCTION. Past that, the controls and things you can adjust do not model what happens on the actual amp. Example would be fixed non-related EQ points for the high/mid/low stuff in the 'sim'. He doesn't emulate the actual EQ knob values, for instance.

Modeling was used to get certain things, but it is a digital processor that uses modeling, not a modeler. None of the effects are modeled. The speakers and cabs are created using convolution. He didn't just measure response, he has a lot 'more' in there than that. There is a very real difference, and it isn't semantics.

I think a happy medium for you and I is simply to agree that is a digital processor. But you'd never know it if you didn't know it. ;)

[deadringer]

I think a happy medium for you and I is simply to agree that is a digital processor. But you'd never know it if you didn't know it. ;)

And I love this very fact. I remember the first time a tube fanatic friend of mine heard my rig, his first question was, "are you running JJ's in the preamp too?"

[electronpirate]

And I love this very fact. I remember the first time a tube fanatic friend of mine heard my rig, his first question was, "are you running JJ's in the preamp too?"

That's funny. A friend of mine who has a Zinky Superfly, 18 watt Marshall, and a Blues Deluxe was listening to me play, and said 'What preamp tubes do you have in there?', then the final blessing: ^wistfully^ 'That is a great sounding amp'.

It wasn't so much the compliment, as the AMP part. No, 'processor', or 'Modeler'...just AMP.

:BEER

[Squigglefunk]

None of the effects are modeled

really? The effects are analog?

[javajunkie]

"None of the effects are modeled"

The drive blocks are.

[javajunkie]

really? The effects are analog?

The delays, chorus, etc. are not modeled off a particular unit. They are digital effects. Just because something is digital doesn't mean it is modeled.

[deadringer]

One of my older mentor type musician friends came over to do a session for a project I was producing and decided to just use my rack. He plugged in and started noodling and said, "it's about time you got rid of that modeler, you just can't beat tubes". He used to rib me to no end when I sold off my tube rig for a Vetta.

[Scott Peterson]

really? The effects are analog?

Ummm, digital. As noted above, digital does not automatically equal modeled.

"None of the effects are modeled"

The drive blocks are.

Touche. I stand corrected.

[Scott Peterson]

Using some custom IR cabs mixed in with the standard Axe-FX cabs, unbelievable to my ears how the recording feels 'in the room' with you. I am really impressed right now.

Here are some shorter clips showing this; and the Budda one has some efx including wah, rotary, chorus, phaser, Drive in different parts. All my efx in the Axe-FX are attached to the tap tempo on my controller, so the speeding up/slowing down you hear is me tapping out tempo changes.

All recorded direct digitally, no processing.

Just remarkable with firmware 4.00b and an IR cab. Whew.


Fender Clean type of tone:
http://www.mediafire.com/?am4kbnzedxe


Marshall JCM800 type of tone:
http://www.mediafire.com/?1kjddzendyy


Marshall Brown type of tone:
http://www.mediafire.com/?euxz1mpuflx


Bogner Ecstasy type of tone:
http://www.mediafire.com/?9yddjxgfiwd


Budda (with effects on/off) type of tone:
http://www.mediafire.com/?auczcyj0yxy

[jzgtrguy]

Scott,

Thanks! You know way more about this than I do. What's a "Convolution?. Is it contagious? Do I have to worry about it? Sorry it is late.;) I am actually kind of enjoying learning about this stuff. Soon I will have to dive into the world of midi, hope it is not hard to learn. I got a Behringer (sp?) midi pedal a few years back for a Yamaha DG Stomp I used to have and I couldn't even figure out how to make it work? I took it back. Probably I will just build a few presets that I really like and live there. Bottom line when all is said and done I don't really care how it makes a sound as long as it is musical and if it covers the bebop stuff as well as the electric stuff and I can have one rig that will just be a bonus.

Out,

Jeff



Jeff,

It isn't a modeler in FUNCTION. Past that, the controls and things you can adjust do not model what happens on the actual amp. Example would be fixed non-related EQ points for the high/mid/low stuff in the 'sim'. He doesn't emulate the actual EQ knob values, for instance.

Modeling was used to get certain things, but it is a digital processor that uses modeling, not a modeler. None of the effects are modeled. The speakers and cabs are created using convolution. He didn't just measure response, he has a lot 'more' in there than that. There is a very real difference, and it isn't semantics.

I think a happy medium for you and I is simply to agree that is a digital processor. But you'd never know it if you didn't know it. ;)

[Scott Peterson]

Jeff,

Convolution uses "IR" or Impulse Response - you shoot a full spectrum short burst of audio and then capture the result.

Check my clips just above your post to hear the realism that can be captured. Regardless of whether you like my tone, playing, whatever; listen to how real that sounds... as if you were standing in the room in front of the amp. I mean, come on... this is crazy. That's all recorded just now straight out of my Axe-FX into the digital in on my soundcard and then turned into a mp3. I mean, damn. I've never - in my life - heard a more accurate representation of what I am hearing right in the room as if I was standing in front of my amp. When the monitors are cranked up (or my powered PA speaker monitor) it is like the thing is the room. Consistent night after night and exactly the way I want it.

Whew. I am really tired, but just high as a kite from playing this thing tonight.

[guitarist58]

Hi Jeff, I used to play with the exact same setup! Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedal and a Yamaha DG-Stomp. Dont worry! I don't think MIDI is all that hard to learn (at least how to navigate and get basic stuff done). IMHO, while the Behringer is a very capable pedal, it has a terrible manual. I kind of "grew up" with the development of MIDI as I was really into keyboards & synths all through the 80's, and have a fairly decent grasp of the basics anyway. I couldn't figure out what the heck the Behringer manual was trying to say without really working at it! The Yamaha is also wierd to me with it's 3 digit display and numbering system for banks and patches.

I'd be tempted to start simple. I have a RFX Midibuddy controller (was maybe $50 on ebay) which just sends out program change info which just changes patches. jzucker sold me his Rocktron Midi Mate which has more features, but is still not too crazy--I like simple! :p Later on I may get into pedal controllers and whatnot.

I think you will find it fun once you get going with it. :)

[scottl]

Hey guys,

A fellow forumite is bringing over his Axe-FX tomorrow. I'll be able to constructively comment then. I am also going to hook it up and record a few samples. It is a standard.

Expect some cleanish jazzy noodlings ala Metheny, as well as some Griffindorish sustainy horny leads..... ;)

[tlainhart]

Using some custom IR cabs mixed in with the standard Axe-FX cabs, unbelievable to my ears how the recording feels 'in the room' with you. I am really impressed right now.


Thanks for taking the time to record and post these. It sounds great.

[javajunkie]

Hey guys,

A fellow forumite is bringing over his Axe-FX tomorrow. I'll be able to constructively comment then. I am also going to hook it up and record a few samples. It is a standard.

Expect some cleanish jazzy noodlings ala Metheny, as well as some Griffindorish sustainy horny leads..... ;)

shouldn't be too hard since Metheny has 2 Axe-fxs :crazy

[ericb]

Hey guys,

A fellow forumite is bringing over his Axe-FX tomorrow.

Expect some cleanish jazzy noodlings ala Metheny, as well as some Griffindorish sustainy horny leads..... ;)


Damn, almost all my leads are horny leads!!! I've been spouseless tooooo long! :eek: Eric

[bluesmostly]

Blues thanks for the reply. I cant wait to get this unit, I have tried in the past and owned the line 6 ax 212, ax2, flextone, rocktron voodoo valve, digitech rp 1, pod, pod 2, pod xt live, boss gt3, and other processors that always have left me somehow feeling something was just missing. I am not afraid to try the current technology. I am just so hoping to finally be over the quest for a good passable tone at bedroom volumes, through headphones or when I am jamming with my friends... The axe seems to be totally what I have been hoping for all along! Does it do a good blues tone as well? Is there any where that there is a pre set chart?

I made my own pre-set chart after going thru all the pre-sets in the unit. I would like to have a complete one with descriptions of the tones if anyone has one!

You bet there are great blues tones in there, several in fact, and all can be tweaked to suit you or you can create your own from scratch using the various amp models. Fantastic!

[bluesmostly]

I made my own pre-set chart after going thru all the pre-sets in the unit. I would like to have a complete one with descriptions of the tones if anyone has one!

You bet there are great blues tones in there, several in fact, and all can be tweaked to suit you or you can create your own from scratch using the various amp models. Fantastic!

seriously, anyone know where I can find a list of the presets?

[jzucker]

Another clip
http://www.sheetsofsound.net/audio/mp3/axefx/sweet%20dreams3.mp3

[AndrewSimon]

seriously, anyone know where I can find a list of the presets?

If you install the editor you can see the list of factory presets as well as play around with the effects block and see what parameters they have and how it all works.

http://www.axechange.net/editorbeta.aspx (http://www.axechange.net/editorbeta.aspx)

That said, I rearly use presets.
There is nothing like creating your own presets that fits your guitar and style.

:dude

[tlainhart]

Another clip
http://www.sheetsofsound.net/audio/mp3/axefx/sweet%20dreams3.mp3

*Fantastic* playing and tone on Caravan. Your solo bass playing is also out there.

Have you tried for any D*mbly tones? I didn't see any one your Axe-FX page.

-- Todd

[jzucker]

*Fantastic* playing and tone on Caravan. Your solo bass playing is also out there.

Have you tried for any D*mbly tones? I didn't see any one your Axe-FX page.

-- Todd

Funk Junk (http://www.sheetsofsound.net/audio/mp3/axefx/funkjunk.mp3) is the dumble amp model with a strat. I'm waiting to get my guitar back from the shop and then I'll do some dumble tones with a humbucker.

[bluesmostly]

If you install the editor you can see the list of factory presets as well as play around with the effects block and see what parameters they have and how it all works.

http://www.axechange.net/editorbeta.aspx (http://www.axechange.net/editorbeta.aspx)

That said, I rearly use presets.
There is nothing like creating your own presets that fits your guitar and style.

:dude

Thanks Andrew, that is perfect. I have created a bunch of presets by making changes to my favourite existing presets. Is that what you mean by making your own presets?

[AndrewSimon]

Thanks Andrew, that is perfect. I have created a bunch of presets by making changes to my favourite existing presets. Is that what you mean by making your own presets?

I usually go to an empty preset (like 300 and up) and start from nothing.
Of course there are no rules here just do whatever works for you.

:rolleyes:

[scottl]

Check member soundclips.... Wink.....

[jzgtrguy]

Guitars58,

Hey Thanks! I plan on picking up the Fractal Pedal when it comes out. I'll check out the RFX Midibuddy.

Best,

Jeff

Hi Jeff, I used to play with the exact same setup! Behringer FCB1010 MIDI pedal and a Yamaha DG-Stomp. Dont worry! I don't think MIDI is all that hard to learn (at least how to navigate and get basic stuff done). IMHO, while the Behringer is a very capable pedal, it has a terrible manual. I kind of "grew up" with the development of MIDI as I was really into keyboards & synths all through the 80's, and have a fairly decent grasp of the basics anyway. I couldn't figure out what the heck the Behringer manual was trying to say without really working at it! The Yamaha is also wierd to me with it's 3 digit display and numbering system for banks and patches.

I'd be tempted to start simple. I have a RFX Midibuddy controller (was maybe $50 on ebay) which just sends out program change info which just changes patches. jzucker sold me his Rocktron Midi Mate which has more features, but is still not too crazy--I like simple! :p Later on I may get into pedal controllers and whatnot.

I think you will find it fun once you get going with it. :)

[Roodyrocker]

O.K. I tried to read through this whole thread but two hours later I wasn't even halfway through it :NUTS So I have a few questions because I'm considering trying one. No, I'm not dumping my tube amps but rather I'm interested in using either the Axe-Fx for its effects and harmonizer vs. maybe something like an Eventide Eclipse. So the first question is if you were going to use it mainly for its effects which are you better off with the Eventide or Fractal? Also, what is the main factor(s) that would make one choose the regular Fractal vs. the Ultra? I looked at the manuals to both on their website but that didn't help figure out which to buy really. I also listened to a lot of clips of the Axe-Fx and they sound nice IMHO.
I'm considering selling off a bunch of vintage MXR pedals, some Maxon pedals, Pod Pro, etc... to try help fund either the Eventide Eclipse or The Axe-Fx.

[Scott Peterson]

I'd ask this question over at the Axe-FX forum and you'll get guys that own(ed) both and a more complete answer.

[Roodyrocker]

Thanks Scott. I looked on there and did a search. I found a few threads addressing these questions so that works :)

[scottl]

I currently use an Eventide Eclipse in my rack. I have an Axe-FX on order. Should be here real soon. So, I'll be able to answer this one! My plan is to replace the Eventide if the Axe-FX effects are on par. That way I have the effects, and the sims for either recording or use augmenting my amp tones live. Or to use dedicated live. Although, after spending a few hours yesterday comparing the Axe-FX to my main amp, I really love my amp... ;)

O.K. I tried to read through this whole thread but two hours later I wasn't even halfway through it :NUTS So I have a few questions because I'm considering trying one. No, I'm not dumping my tube amps but rather I'm interested in using either the Axe-Fx for its effects and harmonizer vs. maybe something like an Eventide Eclipse. So the first question is if you were going to use it mainly for its effects which are you better off with the Eventide or Fractal? Also, what is the main factor(s) that would make one choose the regular Fractal vs. the Ultra? I looked at the manuals to both on their website but that didn't help figure out which to buy really. I also listened to a lot of clips of the Axe-Fx and they sound nice IMHO.
I'm considering selling off a bunch of vintage MXR pedals, some Maxon pedals, Pod Pro, etc... to try help fund either the Eventide Eclipse or The Axe-Fx.

[Jay Mitchell]

Although, after spending a few hours yesterday comparing the Axe-FX to my main amp, I really love my amp... ;)I would never suggest that ownership of an Axe-Fx will (or should) result in an amp you love falling from favor - I expect to keep one of the tube amps that I have set up to my liking, for backup if for no other purpose - but I will say that, after no more than a couple hours fooling around with the Axe, I was able to create serviceable replacements for every sound that I get from my personally-modded tube amps. By "serviceable," I don't necessarily mean perfect clones - although my son, who is keenly aware of such things, couldn't tell the difference - but rather sounds that I can use in a particular way, i.e., that effectively put forth the musical ideas I have in mind.

Although the possibility of cloning a sound with an AFX is one option, my suggestion is that to restrict your thinking in that way would deny you the possibility of creating entirely new amp sounds of your own invention that no existing amp can make. The AFX not only makes that possible, it makes it very straightforward. It will take a few hours to familiarize yourself with the unit's capabilities, but I believe you'll find the process enjoyable.

[scottl]

Agreed.... I was definately impressed. There was kind of bass texture and high end harmonic straining thing my real amp had that I was unable to replicate in my short 30 minutes tweaking the models. I am sure I'll get closer when mine arrives. On another note, I had opportunity to both compare the Axe-FX through my amps loop return to power amp and real 2X12 cab versus the Axe-FX through a JBL self powered monitor. We did optimize the Axe-FX for both scenarios. The real guitar amp and cab decimated the JBL for my tastes. Not in the same universe. I felt I had real guitar amp tone when going through the real guitar cab and speakers, even though the preamp was a sim. The JBL was like a closed sounding replica. Now maybe in the real world, this is a non event, but in the vaccum of my basement, it was stunningly huge in favor of the real guitar rig setup.

I would never suggest that ownership of an Axe-Fx will (or should) result in an amp you love falling from favor - I expect to keep one of the tube amps that I have set up to my liking, for backup if for no other purpose - but I will say that, after no more than a couple hours fooling around with the Axe, I was able to create serviceable replacements for every sound that I get from my personally-modded tube amps. By "serviceable," I don't necessarily mean perfect clones - although my son, who is keenly aware of such things, couldn't tell the difference - but rather sounds that I can use in a particular way, i.e., that effectively put forth the musical ideas I have in mind.

Although the possibility of cloning a sound with an AFX is one option, my suggestion is that to restrict your thinking in that way would deny you the possibility of creating entirely new amp sounds of your own invention that no existing amp can make. The AFX not only makes that possible, it makes it very straightforward. It will take a few hours to familiarize yourself with the unit's capabilities, but I believe you'll find the process enjoyable.

[mtlin]

Agreed.... I was definately impressed. There was kind of bass texture and high end harmonic straining thing my real amp had that I was unable to replicate in my short 30 minutes tweaking the models. I am sure I'll get closer when mine arrives. On another note, I had opportunity to both compare the Axe-FX through my amps loop return to power amp and real 2X12 cab versus the Axe-FX through a JBL self powered monitor. We did optimize the Axe-FX for both scenarios. The real guitar amp and cab decimated the JBL for my tastes. Not in the same universe. I felt I had real guitar amp tone when going through the real guitar cab and speakers, even though the preamp was a sim. The JBL was like a closed sounding replica. Now maybe in the real world, this is a non event, but in the vaccum of my basement, it was stunningly huge in favor of the real guitar rig setup.

Yeah, I much prefer the Axe-Fx through a real guitar cabinet to a JBL monitor (I tried the one the Scott has). It sounds much more real in the room with the guitar cabs. Not close really. Through the guitar cabs, I sometimes forget whether I'm playing through a tube amp or the Axe-Fx and I have to actually check! This difference would probably be lost in the FOH, but to me as a player it makes a big difference.

[Jarrett]

Have you guys tried the Axe-FX on a gig with the powered monitor versus the guitar cabs?

[Jay Mitchell]

There was kind of bass texture and high end harmonic straining thing my real amp had that I was unable to replicate in my short 30 minutes tweaking the models.That's definitely in there. I've gotten that effect from my AFX.

On another note, I had opportunity to both compare the Axe-FX through my amps loop return to power amp and real 2X12 cab versus the Axe-FX through a JBL self powered monitor. We did optimize the Axe-FX for both scenarios. The real guitar amp and cab decimated the JBL for my tastes.That part admittedly takes some doing to sound convincing, but the AFX is the only processor that even makes it possible. I've added some of my own special sauce to that brew, and I've been able to get my sound through an FRFR rig to match the sound played through a guitar speaker, including the bass "chunk" of a real closed guitar cab.

This is a relatively recent development, but the capability to make a neutral-sounding monitor - please note that you can't take the required neutrality for granted - sound like you're playing through a guitar cab is now definitely there in the AFX.

[scottl]

Problem is my fave sound is my large oval port back, floating baffle 2X12. The neutral monitor, no matter how good the cab sims of the Axe-FX are, cannot replicate the sound dispersion of the guitar cab. Now, if you like beamy closed backs, I'd agree ;) it is just a different flavor that takes getting used to.

To the audience, it is a non-event IMO.

This is a relatively recent development, but the capability to make a neutral-sounding monitor - please note that you can't take the required neutrality for granted - sound like you're playing through a guitar cab is now definitely there in the AFX.

[Jay Mitchell]

Problem is my fave sound is my large oval port back, floating baffle 2X12. The neutral monitor, no matter how good the cab sims of the Axe-FX are, cannot replicate the sound dispersion of the guitar cab.Agreed. A neutral monitor will be far less directional than either an open- or closed-back guitar cab, particularly so above 1kHz.

Now, if you like beamy closed backs, I'd agreeIf you think closed-back cabs are "beamier" overall than open-backs, you've bought into one of the more prevalent - and inaccurate - myths associated with guitar speakers.

Open-back cabinets have a particular directivity signature, (roughly figure-of-eight in the low midrange, much like the pattern of a ribbon mic), but they are generally more, not less, directional, than otherwise-identical closed-back cabs. The basic acoustic models predict this phenomenon very accurately, but I also have loads of test data that completely bear out predictions based on the theoretical models. If you really like the uncontrolled, beamy backsplatter of an open-backed cab, there are ways to get it with FRFR speakers. I don't recommend them, however, because you'll then be placing yourself at the mercy of local acoustics on the bandstand.

[scottl]

You may be right. I am just saying that in preliminary tests with both, myself and the others present thought the guitar cab sounded far better in every way than the JBL powered monitor. Also, when comparing my cabs to one another, we all unanimously felt the large 2X12 had a HUGE soundstage and you almost could not tell where the sound was coming from. In the room we were in as a caveat.

If I were to use powered monitors, I would have to run them in stereo. That would certainly restore order to my notions of how my stage sound should sound.

Fwiw, my "good" rig is in stereo now.

Agreed. A neutral monitor will be far less directional than either an open- or closed-back guitar cab, particularly so above 1kHz.

If you think closed-back cabs are "beamier" overall than open-backs, you've bought into one of the more prevalent - and inaccurate - myths associated with guitar speakers.

Open-back cabinets have a particular directivity signature, (roughly figure-of-eight in the low midrange, much like the pattern of a ribbon mic), but they are generally more, not less, directional, than otherwise-identical closed-back cabs. The basic acoustic models predict this phenomenon very accurately, but I also have loads of test data that completely bear out predictions based on the theoretical models. If you really like the uncontrolled, beamy backsplatter of an open-backed cab, there are ways to get it with FRFR speakers. I don't recommend them, however, because you'll then be placing yourself at the mercy of local acoustics on the bandstand.

[mtlin]

That's definitely in there. I've gotten that effect from my AFX.

That part admittedly takes some doing to sound convincing, but the AFX is the only processor that even makes it possible. I've added some of my own special sauce to that brew, and I've been able to get my sound through an FRFR rig to match the sound played through a guitar speaker, including the bass "chunk" of a real closed guitar cab.

This is a relatively recent development, but the capability to make a neutral-sounding monitor - please note that you can't take the required neutrality for granted - sound like you're playing through a guitar cab is now definitely there in the AFX.

What's your secret?

[deadringer]

Problem is my fave sound is my large oval port back, floating baffle 2X12. The neutral monitor, no matter how good the cab sims of the Axe-FX are, cannot replicate the sound dispersion of the guitar cab. Now, if you like beamy closed backs, I'd agree ;) it is just a different flavor that takes getting used to.

To the audience, it is a non-event IMO.

Just throwing this out there as a thought to ponder, I'm not nearly as tech savvy as many in this discussion. With the new IR custom cabs in the Axe Fx, couldn't you do IR for both the front and back of that particular cab and then run the amp sim through both. I'm sure it wouldn't be perfect but it may be close. It wouldn't give you the same sound from all around feeling but it may fill in the void a little.

[deadringer]

What's your secret?

+1

I'm moving to the beta firmware this week and hoping to begin to make some patches that sound better direct. I've used the direct out tone to the board and I've mic'd my cab and feed the board and so far it's not even close.

[Scott Peterson]

What's your secret?

Read his other posts in this thread.

[michael.e]

Anybody know the lead time these days. If one got on the list, how long before you are called for the option to buy?

Thanks,
Emee

[Jason_86_951]

Anybody know the lead time these days. If one got on the list, how long before you are called for the option to buy?

Thanks,
Emee

I've been on for 5 month and was told "days away" this morning.

They have moved to a bigger location and have stepped up production, so maybe in the next few month, little or no wait.

You can aways pay full price and get to the front of the list.

[Den]

You may be right. I am just saying that in preliminary tests with both, myself and the others present thought the guitar cab sounded far better in every way than the JBL powered monitor. Also, when comparing my cabs to one another, we all unanimously felt the large 2X12 had a HUGE soundstage and you almost could not tell where the sound was coming from. In the room we were in as a caveat.

If I were to use powered monitors, I would have to run them in stereo. That would certainly restore order to my notions of how my stage sound should sound.

Fwiw, my "good" rig is in stereo now.Hey Scott ... happy to see you're giving the Axe-FX a run ... I'm still impatiently waiting for mine (going on 4 months now).

Quick question ... did the Axe-Fx you played have the beta firmware? From others reports, it appears a few of the updates allow an even better experience through powered speakers.

[deadringer]

The cabinet sims in the Axe-Fx are based on the impulse response of the target speaker. The factory-supplied IRs were acquired with close-mic testing, which doesn't capture the response of the speaker as the player hears it. I measured speaker cabinets at a typical playing distance (2 meters), generated the IRs, and uploaded them into my Axe-Fx. This capability was just introduced in the new 4.00beta firmware.

The difference is significant. Not only can I now put in any cabinet sim I want, the sound of the sim played back through my FRFR system is virtually identical to the sound I hear when I play through the actual cabinet. I've done direct A/B comparisons with the same cabinet that I tested to get the IR, and it's downright scary how good the sim is.

Edit: I design loudspeakers for a living, and I have the equipment and facility to accomplish the required speaker testing. While it is certainly possible for a DIY type to get very good speaker IRs for this use, it's a nontrivial project.

Any chance you'd be willing to share those cabs?

[Squigglefunk]

is the Impulse Response basically like a EQ curve?

[scottl]

It had the latest beta firmware.

Hey Scott ... happy to see you're giving the Axe-FX a run ... I'm still impatiently waiting for mine (going on 4 months now).

Quick question ... did the Axe-Fx you played have the beta firmware? From others reports, it appears a few of the updates allow an even better experience through powered speakers.

[Dr. Tweedbucket]

Anybody know the lead time these days. If one got on the list, how long before you are called for the option to buy?

Thanks,
Emee


I got my reply today and they said 3-4 months on both units. :munch

[Jay Mitchell]

With the new IR custom cabs in the Axe Fx, couldn't you do IR for both the front and back of that particular cab and then run the amp sim through both.If the "feel" of an open-back cab - which varies all over the place, depending on specific local acoustics - is something that you really prefer, the way to get it with FRFR systems is to construct an acoustic dipole (which is what an open cab is), with one cab radiating forward and another rearward, but in reverse polarity. There are some finer points that you'd have to address to get a suitable result from this setup (e.g., different EQ for the front- and rear-radiating speakers), but that's the gist of it. Why anyone would want this kind of behavior is another matter. Just as with an open cab, your sound and feel with this setup would change wildly from venue to venue, depending on the size of the stage, the presence or absence of a wall behind the backline, the distance of the wall behind your amp, whether there's a curtain on the wall, etc., etc.

My IRs of open-back cabs account directly for the effect of the speaker's dipole behavior on the response of the cab at the test mic position, and I have the option of also including the effect of a reflecting surface behind the speaker (i.e., a wall) if I choose. Now that I think of it, I may eventually take some measurements of the cab in front of a wall for comparison purposes.

[Jarrett]

So I guess no one has tried the Axe-FX into a powered wedge live so far?

I'm about 3 months/3 weeks into the wait now for those asking about time lines.

[Jay Mitchell]

is the Impulse Response basically like a EQ curve?No.

[Squigglefunk]

No.

what is it?

[Jay Mitchell]

what is it?It's the response of the speaker to an impulse, which is a signal "spike" of very short (ideally infinitesimal) duration. Mathematically, an impulse is described by a Dirac delta function.

[AndrewSimon]

Mathematically, an impulse is described by a Dirac delta function.
:eek:
In English please!

:)

[Squigglefunk]

so it models the speaker's response to a very short signal?

[Jay Mitchell]

so it models the speaker's response to a very short signal?A very specific "short signal." The shortest (relatively) nontechnical explanation is that the impulse response can be used to predict the response of the speaker to any other signal, through a mathematical process called "convolution." This is what the AFX does.

[Scott Peterson]

so it models the speaker's response to a very short signal?

Full range burst and decay of a very short signal.

[Jarrett]

Scott, have you used your rig live?

[Scott Peterson]

So I guess no one has tried the Axe-FX into a powered wedge live so far?

I'm about 3 months/3 weeks into the wait now for those asking about time lines.

Nope. Remember every owner doesn't follow every post on this thread (I don't even follow it and I keep getting "Reply to...." emails everyday, allday (and night!) about this thread. I can't even keep up.

I've done two shows direct with the powered speaker. A few other guys have too, check the Axe-FX forum. Soloact makes his living playing live and that's his setup. He plays out 4-5 times a week, every week this way. There's guys that were/are on tour in Europe with the same sort of schedules - constantly touring making a living - using it this way.

They, unlike me, are probably too busy playing the thing to sit and post about it. Speaking of which... I gotta get some work done! :D

[Squigglefunk]

A very specific "short signal." The shortest (relatively) nontechnical explanation is that the impulse response can be used to predict the response of the speaker to any other signal, through a mathematical process called "convolution." This is what the AFX does.

but by response you don't mean the EQ curve of the speaker?

[Jay Mitchell]

but by response you don't mean the EQ curve of the speaker?No. Strictly speaking (no pun intended), a speaker has no "EQ curve." It has a "transfer function," which is the Laplace transform of its impulse response. Got it now?:BEER

[brain21]

I agree it's a great policy. Unfortunately, similar policies have done nothing to quell uninformed naysaying about Pritchard amps, and I doubt it'll do anything to silence would-be Axe-FX detractors either.

-Ben

I discovered Pritchard amps a few years back when a friend of mine and I went to a guitar show. My friend is now endorsing Pritchard amps. I gotta say when I first tried one, I didn't know what kind of an amp it was. It was dead simple for me to get a decent enough Santana tone, and then roll back the tone a little and get that E.C. Bluesbreaker "Hideaway" tone. This while having no idea what the knobs on the amp were for. Pritchard told me that the amp was analog solid state, and I was simply amazed. That thing was just as warm and responsive as any boutique tube amp that I had tried. I haven't gotten to play one since (haven't had a chance to play my friend's), but they were surprising amps, that's for sure!

I would like to comment on a few things said recently in this thread.

Neve made some comments. Some people gave him flak, some people were not bothered. I think what Neve was essentially getting at, is that a lot (and I know... not everyone) of people post that it is so great, and if someone dares to say or suggest anything different they are dismissed. Hell I'm not even talking about those who make definitive statements having never tried one. I'm talking about people offering constructive criticism, or maybe even ask critical questions. They get panned. The spirit of the forum (IMHO) should be that if someone asks critical questions (read: critiquing, not read "very important") should be to answer the questions in an objective manner, and not reply with "you don't know what you're talking about, so go away" types of responses. AGAIN, I'm not talking about those that make definitive "this can't live up to a tube amp, period, I know even though I've never tried one" types of comments.

Someone else mentioned an article by Reinhardt Bogner, who basically stated that tube amps are done. There's nowhere for them to go. The future is digital." That's fine if that's his opinion. He's seemingly done a nice job on the Spider Valve with Line6, but he still makes his tube amps. It's kinda like saying "Paint is done. There's nowhere new for painters to go. The future is all Photoshop." It's a bit presumptive. He may think that that is true for him, and good for him if it is, but that doesn't mean that everyone agrees with him. IOW, his statement (I haven't read the article, so I am going based on what the poster said, so if I am misinterpreting, please forgive) is seemingly definitively made for the whole industry, when it shouldn't be. It would also be akin to someone stateing that there is no way digital modelling can even come close to a tube amp! Well, a Behringer V-Amp might not, but an Axe-Fx might.

Lastly, re: clips. And this is not specific to this thread or even forum, though it definitely applies. Often I see the clips and arguements go like this:

posterA) Listen to my new clip of my new sound! It's awesome!
posterB) Sounds awesome!
posterC) I wasn't that impressed. I thought the sound lacked so and so.
posterA) Dummy, you can't judge based on clips! Don't you know that?!?!?

Can you see the contradiction here? You're asking people to listen and judge your awesomeness :-) based on the clip, but the moment someone disagrees you say that you can't tell from the clip.

While I do understand the intention and thought process of posterA, you can't have it both ways. This really simple misunderstanding causes many of the "clips" arguements that we see on many threads. We should try to steer away from that, and I will say, admittedly, this thread more than most *does* try to stay away from that.

Bottom line, if someone doesn't agree with you and they are not making outlandish statements, TAKE THE CRITICISM. Don't just blow people off. Use the criticism as an excuse or springboard to "enlighten" the criticiser in a logical way.

Brain21

[football]

Lastly, re: clips. And this is not specific to this thread or even forum, though it definitely applies. Often I see the clips and arguements go like this:

posterA) Listen to my new clip of my new sound! It's awesome!
posterB) Sounds awesome!
posterC) I wasn't that impressed. I thought the sound lacked so and so.
posterA) Dummy, you can't judge based on clips! Don't you know that?!?!?

Can you see the contradiction here? You're asking people to listen and judge your awesomeness :-) based on the clip, but the moment someone disagrees you say that you can't tell from the clip.

While I do understand the intention and thought process of posterA, you can't have it both ways. This really simple misunderstanding causes many of the "clips" arguements that we see on many threads. We should try to steer away from that, and I will say, admittedly, this thread more than most *does* try to stay away from that.

Bottom line, if someone doesn't agree with you and they are not making outlandish statements, TAKE THE CRITICISM. Don't just blow people off. Use the criticism as an excuse or springboard to "enlighten" the criticiser in a logical way.


Good post, I agree with what you are saying and am happy you said it.

[Jay Mitchell]

Lastly, re: clips. And this is not specific to this thread or even forum, though it definitely applies. Often I see the clips and arguements go like this:

posterA) Listen to my new clip of my new sound! It's awesome!
posterB) Sounds awesome!
posterC) I wasn't that impressed. I thought the sound lacked so and so.
posterA) Dummy, you can't judge based on clips! Don't you know that?!?!?

The typical sequence is a lot more like this:

A - This thing sounds really great. You've gotta try one!
B - Got any clips?
A - No, I'm too busy, and mp3 clips won't tell you anything.
B - NO WAY I'm gonna try something without clips.
A - OK, dammit, here are some that I threw together. You really need to play through one, though.
B - There's (too much, not enough) (reverb/chorus/compression/delay/etc.), and it sounds too (digital, dry, wet, grainy, smooth, clean, dirty, etc.)
A - Fine, no skin off my back. I was just sharing my experience.
B - I knew it sucked.

I find it incredible that the same types of individuals who will argue for days about what brand of capacitor "sounds best" in a tube amp that was made for electric guitar will also try to pretend that a 128kb/s mp3 played on their computer speaker can possibly give a valid indication of anything relevant to the actual use of an instrument, amp, or piece of processing gear.

Bottom line: if you're interested, get on the list and buy one. You've got 30 days to check it out and send it back if you don't end up liking it. Nobody's feelings will be hurt if you decide to send it back. MOF, the next guy in line will thank you.:roll

[stratzrus]

I find it incredible that the same types of individuals who will argue for days about what brand of capacitor "sounds best" in a tube amp that was made for electric guitar will also try to pretend that a 128kb/s mp3 played on their computer speaker can possibly give a valid indication of anything relevant to the actual use of an instrument, amp, or piece of processing gear.

+1

I think clips are great for demonstrating songwriting or performances but don't mean a lot in the evaluation of gear.

Many clips are casually put together without the intentionality brought to bear when making a recording for the commercial market.

Some of the Axe FX clips have been great (partucularly some of the recent ones) but some others have sounded "brittle" and "digital". Which do you use to evaluate the amp? Suppose you only heard one and not the other?

FWIW, good clips tell me a little more than bad clips. With a good clip I can tell that a piece of equipment can sound good in certain circumstances, although those circumstances may never occur where I exist.

Bad sounding clips tell you nothing...there are so many reasons a clip can sound bad...the most likely suspect being user error, not bad equipment.

Lastly, although the Axe FX has universaly been described as being "easy to tweak", I have the sense that there is a learning curve with it and as more experienced multi-processer users take delivery we will be hearing better and better results as we already have over the last month.

It's one thing to dislike a clip, but something entirely different to dismiss any piece of equipment based on a bad recording.

stratzrus

[stratovarius]

Wouldn't all clips sound digital? :confused:

I mean, they are in fact digital! :D

[deadringer]

I think that it's very important to understand that there IS a learning curve with the Axe Fx, and for me it's a pretty heavy one. Everything is laid out well and really user friendly and intuitive but with a unit with this many options, there is a lot to learn and figure out.

At the same time, I was able to get some solid stuff within minutes of owning it.

[Scott Peterson]

To the clip police: Play one. In real life. And make your own clips. The rest of this is posturing and ****-waving. Here's a secret, as Jay notes above. Post a clip? Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You can please some of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time.

Playing Brain21's hand against him (aka devil's advocate), I've still not heard Brain21's clips that demonstrate his 'clip-worthy' ness. I've been around the net a long time, the entire 'clips' thing is overblown, overdone and in the end worthless past being entertainment. I don't blow off people that don't like my clips, but I didn't post them to demonstrate my 'awesome' ness. Or have anyone pat me on the back and say, "Attaboy. You showed 'dem!" Clips are the same as pictures, snapshots. Real life is fluid, it moves. Pictures freeze movement. You can learn from them, sure. But they are not the "REAL" picture.

Play one. Then comment.

[guitarist58]

Hi, Brain21, I've read most of the posts in this thread, and have gone over some of Neve's posts http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php?searchid=4591700

What seems to be at the heart of the disagreement is that Neve believes the clips should reflect how great the Axe-fx is, but they don't (for him).

Here's a relevant quote:
I finally got a chance to check out the website and lsitened to clips on the front page

The sound sure doesnt match the hype. If the guy who designed this rig can make it sound beauitful where are we at? Because he chose those tones.

I find it very important to ignore all the technical talk. All the stats in the world dont change the sound coming through the speakers.

There seems to be a misconception about DSP chips here. I have plugins that have huge algorithims and take up half my CPU--far more processing power than this unit and they sound like crud

I also have plugins that use very little power and sound amazing

This is a question of programming skill and accurate modeling techniques. I could care less what kind of chip someone used.

I have mic'd up Vetta's before and also recorded them direct in the studio. What comes out my monitors is the crux of the issue. So to say the AXE is somehow professional gear in a different leauge because its stats impress you doesnt make any sense to me. What comes out of the speaker is what the product does..it could be 5 cents or 8 grand and it would make no difference in my mix.

I think all of us are much happier when a client brings in a real amp. But Im not a tube snob...I can make these things work

But I think some people sound like they have a chip on their shoulder because all these statements of absolution. One guys says you can only use a tube amp and the other says this Axe is light years above the rest. The sounds posted dont show that and that speaks louder than words or stats.

I hope I get a chance to record with this thing. I dont hear anything that sounds bad, and as long as its not bad it can work. I know there is this macho thing that creeps into the psyche of some players. They think they're not a man if they dont have tubes but I suspect that is insecurity. You know those guys who buy big trucks right? Obviously, this only applies to a few but we seem to hear them all the time :)

I think that maybe a couple of things are being missed in this (whole) discussion (I'm not referring to just the quote). Others have touched on the fact that it takes skill and experience to record well. I know this to be true from first-hand experience, as I had a small recording studio during the 1980s and worked toward that goal of being able to record and engineer well. Neve mentions willingness to record modelers, and has experience doing it. However, Line 6 and other modeling gear have quite a few years being developed as a "plug-and-play" way to get polished amp tones into a recording, even having been marketed as enabling the musician/songwriter/hobbyist to do so. The Axe-fx, however, is relatively new. It is also not designed to provide canned "great sounding Marshall leads" or "sparkly Fender Twin clean tones"--it is designed to be (from my understanding) as high quality and versatile an guitar amplification device as it could be--an so should perhaps be looked at differently. Yes it does, of course, have features implemented to be of use in recording (as well as live sound), such as the speaker emulation.

What I'm getting at is that the Axe-fx probably should be approached as a sophisticated amplifier. And as with any traditional amplifier, say a Marshall JTM, you can't expect a hobbyist or player (who is not an engineer) to be given a Marshall JTM, a mic and a recording device and expect them to come up with a recording that showcases the depth, power, subtilties and sound quality of the amplifier on their first or second try. Or even their fifth or sixth try.

Since Neve (I gather) is a recording engineer, I would strongly suggest that the only way he will be able to ascertain the depth, breadth and detail of the Axe-fx as a musical instrument and direct recording device, is to get his hands on one and investigate for himself. Of course with the Axe-fx, the tools an engineer would use to capture it's sound are contained within! I would think it would be necessary to go through the learning curve and experimentation in that context to ascertain how well it performs. No Royer 121 or Great River preamp needed! (we hope) :p

I don't think Scott and others are torturing logic or being egotisical. Not everyone can capture/showcase how great any given musical instrument can sound. From what I can gather, Cliff has not designed "yet another amp modeler" into which he has "chosen those tones" that are stuffed inside and is designed to be "plug-and-play" for hobbyists/songwriters/musicians.

I may be overly conservative, but I'm witholding judgment on the Axe-fx until mine arrives and I can *ahem* actually try it myself. I am, however, very impressed with what I am hearing on the clips that are the most well done.

Carry on! :BEER

[football]

Yikes, I haven't been following this thread lately but I see this is truly the exact same mess it was a couple of months ago.

Reminds me to not check back in again on this one for a long time.

[Scott Peterson]

Yikes, I haven't been following this thread lately but I see this is truly the exact same mess it was a couple of months ago.

Reminds me to not check back in again on this one for a long time.

Err, not really. Brain21 has taken up the "clips tell the story" line of logic and run with it, trying his best to say, a) he thinks all the Axe-FX clips suck; and b) that I suck. Or something like that. ;) :D :munch.

I've yet to hear the clips from him that show how a 'real' amp is recorded. It's interesting that he's all over the Fractal Forum and here; has a total of 3 posts here and all on this thread. Who are you Mr. Brain21? Do you have a name?

:D

[guitarist58]

Is this his web site?
http://www.brain21.net/home.html






Is this his building???
http://img107.mytextgraphics.com/photolava/2007/11/05/brain21bldg-48elndwtu.jpg




Hmmmmm...

[guitarist58]

^^^ note the reflections in the glass... somewhere in Japan possibly?

[AndrewSimon]

Is it Alex from Brain21?

http://www.brain21.net/bios/members/Alex/bwalex.jpg

I also found his setup on the Brain21 site:

http://www.brain21.net/bios/members/Alex/setup1.jpg

Alex? ... Line6? .... you have to try the AXE-FX

:horse

[AndrewSimon]

Yep it's definitely Alex.... but he is looking to demo the AXE-FX:
http://www.setbb.com/axefx/viewtopic.php?t=1560&mforum=axefx

So it's cool.... I had doubts too until I played the first 3 notes on the AXE-FX.

:BEER

[Scott Peterson]

Alex, if that's you aka Brain21, you NEED to try this thing. Really. Try it, then make up your own mind. This chasing around here and on the Axe-FX Forum is silly. It's like "Sam I Am"; "just try it and you'll see." (Or hear. :D)

[brain21]

The typical sequence is a lot more like this:

A - This thing sounds really great. You've gotta try one!
B - Got any clips?
A - No, I'm too busy, and mp3 clips won't tell you anything.
B - NO WAY I'm gonna try something without clips.
A - OK, dammit, here are some that I threw together. You really need to play through one, though.
B - There's (too much, not enough) (reverb/chorus/compression/delay/etc.), and it sounds too (digital, dry, wet, grainy, smooth, clean, dirty, etc.)
A - Fine, no skin off my back. I was just sharing my experience.
B - I knew it sucked.



Good point. I have seen it go both ways, though, at least from my experience, the most common scenario is a combination of both. More like this:

A - This thing sounds really great. You've gotta try one!
B - Got any clips?
posterA) Listen to my new clip of my new sound! It's awesome!
posterB) Sounds awesome!
posterC) I wasn't that impressed. I thought the sound lacked so and so.
posterA) Dummy, you can't judge based on clips! Don't you know that?!?!?
B - I knew it sucked.

If someone's posted clips are criticized, I RARELY see a response of
A - Fine, no skin off my back. I was just sharing my experience.

I usually see (like 99% of the time) some sort of insult or insinuation of incompetence or other outlashing by the clip poster. Just my experience.

[brain21]

Playing Brain21's hand against him (aka devil's advocate), I've still not heard Brain21's clips that demonstrate his 'clip-worthy' ness.
{snip}
I don't blow off people that don't like my clips, but I didn't post them to demonstrate my 'awesome' ness. Or have anyone pat me on the back and say, "Attaboy. You showed 'dem!" Clips are the same as pictures, snapshots. Real life is fluid, it moves. Pictures freeze movement. You can learn from them, sure. But they are not the "REAL" picture.

Play one. Then comment.

Umm, my "clip-worthyness"?????
#1 - I'm not the one evangelizing a piece of equipment even if it does deserve it.
#2 - I haven't demanded or asked anyone to post anything
#3 - since when does anyone have to prove themselves worthy of listening to clips? ("clip-worthyness")

That's a bunch of B.S., sorry, but it's true. I have nothing to proce to anyone. I'm not saying that my equipment is so great and everyone should check it out. And for what it's worth, if the Axe-Fx lives up to your hype, I honestly don't blame you for evangelizing the unit, and when I listen to one, if I decide to buy it, then I may one day thank you for evangelizing the Axe-Fx. I, however, will never stoop to proving my "clip-worthyness" It's not a competition. That's a stupid attitude. What's next, who has the bigger d*ck? Come on Scott. You certainly seem a lot smarter than that to me. For now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Also, "play one, then coment" So if I create a sound clip with the brand new Marshall Super Duper Bestest Lead 500watt hadwired out of gold amp, and it sounds like crap, then by your own criteria you shouldn't comment until you have actually played one yourself? If the clip sounds like crap, it sounds like crap. Now it wouldn't be right for you to say you didn't like the clip, so the amp must suck, but it is perfectly w/i your right to say "I didn't like that clip. If thats a true representation of the amp, I don't like it. If it's just a poor recording I'm willing to play through one and decide for myself." and that is EXACTLY what I am saying.

Brain21

[brain21]

Hi, Brain21, I've read most of the posts in this thread, and have gone over some of Neve's posts http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php?searchid=4591700

{snip}

Here's a relevant quote:


{snip}


{snip again}

Carry on! :BEER

I gotta say I agree with about 95% of what Neve said in the passage you quoted, and I also agree with about 95% of what you said in your post! :-)

Brain21

[brain21]

Err, not really. Brain21 has taken up the "clips tell the story" line of logic and run with it, trying his best to say, a) he thinks all the Axe-FX clips suck; and b) that I suck. Or something like that. ;) :D :munch.

I've yet to hear the clips from him that show how a 'real' amp is recorded. It's interesting that he's all over the Fractal Forum and here; has a total of 3 posts here and all on this thread. Who are you Mr. Brain21? Do you have a name?

:D

#1 I am not trying to say (and I did not say) either a or b as noted above, but thanks for putting words into my mouth. Wait. Let me challenge you. Show me EXACTLY where I say that you suck and/or your clips suck. You can't because I didn't.

#2 I somehow missed where it was written that "Poster A *MUST* supply his own professionally recorded clips in order to comment on Poster B's clips, unless those comments are favorable, otherwise Poster As opinions mean nothing, regarless if they are correct or not or even open to interpretation" Is it in the FAQ? Perhaps you can point me to that point of nettiquette?

Come on Scott, be real here. I am seeing a similar pattern in the Axe-Fx threads here on tgp and on the Axe-Fx forums. If someone offers any type of criticism at all, they get villainized, insulted, etc. We don't know what we are talking about, we must be ignorant, we - UNLIKE the folks posting positive comments - MUST PROVE that we are worthy of offering opinions on clips, etc. You LOVE your device. Fine. I may end up buying one myself. I may love it even more than you do. If I post a sound clip or whatever, and someone says that it lacks so and so, I will say fine. Thats your opinion. Remember that at the sound clip won't be 100% representative of what you hear actually in the room with the device. The clip is about xx% accurate to what I hear in the room with the device. Consider the clip a ballpark, and try one out for yourself to hear it the way it should be heard. What I *WILL NOT* do is a) put words in their mouth and accuse them of saying things that they didn't say, b) challenge their ability to judge anything w/o first having to somehow prove theselves and c) if they can't their opinion doesn't matter, d) insult them, e) accuse them of trolling, or "stirring the pot" and trying to cause problems on the forums, etc., etc., etc. which you have done to me (and to a certain extent others) on both this forum and the Axe-Fx forums, simply because I offered an opinion that differs from yours!

Brain21

[brain21]

Alex, if that's you aka Brain21, you NEED to try this thing. Really. Try it, then make up your own mind. This chasing around here and on the Axe-FX Forum is silly. It's like "Sam I Am"; "just try it and you'll see." (Or hear. :D)

And finally we agree! :BEER

[brain21]

Allow me to elaborate on the guesses as to where I am, who I am, whatever. Let me say this, none of you are detectives!!! :-)

First of all, not that I would expect anyone other than Scott to know offhand, but as long as you guys are googling and doing detective work... I have no clue what that building is! I'm not in Japan or asia anywhere. I'm in Atlanta. If you had either gone to the Axe-Fx forums and seen my post requesting to try out an Axe-Fx near the Atlanta area somewhere, or looked at that old brain21.net website that the rig & personal pics were posted from, it would have been obvious. :horse

Now, I have to defend myself, my rig, and my site. :-) Really I do just to clear the air. The last time that that site was updated was in either June of 2000 or June of 2001. The rig pic as shown here was from close to 8-10 years ago! The band broke up in early 2001. We reformed as an instrumental band and power trio and our original music was essentially a cross between Band of Gypsies and Mahavishnu Orchestra, to give you an idea of where I am coming from musically. That incarnation broke up again at the end of 2001 when the bass player moved out of the country for family medical reasons, and shortly thereafter the drummer moved out of state. Unfortunately we never had the opportunity to record together.

Since then, I never updated the site. It hasn't changed in at least 6 years. I would say that about 90% of the site hasn't changed in almost 10 years! :-) Since then I have done a small amount of session work around town on some independant stuff. Still playing some one off gigs every once in a while, but that is it. I just played last weekend for a DVD filming for a friend of mine's new CD. One of the other guitarist that played isn't well known outside of Atlanta, but has has played and recorded with Eric Johnson, Eric Clapton, Steve Morse. and the list goes on. It was a lot of fun to play with him, and it still pisses me off that he got a great tone out of a generic Gibson V, a bixonix expandora, and a crappy Peavey Bandit practice amp mic'ed up! But I digress...

I wanna get out there and play again, be it backing my friend, trying to form an original band again or something else (I was recently asked to join a cover band, and I'm thinking about it), just so long as I have the time (other than my day job, I am involved in 3 startup companies). Doesn't leave much time for anything, but I'm gonna try. It's been too long since I've played out live. Playing in the studio once in a while isn't satisfying that urge anymore (and as I have less and less time, those once in a whiles start to get farther apart).

Because I haven't done "my music" in such a long time, I have mostly modeling gear these days. It's the right tool for the job at hand, even if it is not my favorite tool. I have a bunch of modelling gear from quite a few different companies. I've recorded and/or played with fender twins, a few Mesas, Marshalls, Randalls, Carvins, etc. I've been playing in or around the music scene in Atlanta since about '92 in both original and cover bands. Before that I was in L.A. and I took lessons from guys such as Paul Gilbert, Gary Hoey, and Norman Brown, though I certainly don't think that my playing is anywhere near what it should be having taken lessons from those guys (though back in the early 90's I did do a Racer-X song - "Frenzy" - as a guitar solo for shows, but I don't think I have the technique anymore to get 1/2 way through it today!)!

I'm tired of the relative coldness, etc. of my modeling stuff. I don't plan on dumping all of it as I still see some use for a lot of it in the future. I want something new. Something warm. Something organic, dynamic, and reactive. My fav amp sound is the Trainwreck Express. Gawd I love the sound out of those things! Now that clones are out there and affordable, I am seriously debating getting one. Just a week or so ago, I wasn't even debating. Then I read about the Axe-Fx. Now I am debating. You get the idea. I love the trainwreck, but I love the versatility of the Axe-Fx.

SO now you have some idea of where I am coming from. I'm not some n00b trying to stir up the forums. I have nothing to prove to any of you. I'm not out there saying my equipment is the sh*t (in fact the opposite). I'm just a guy that is tired of the promises and hype of different modeling equipment. I have seen the same arguements time and time again, and somethings have been pretty damned good, but nothing has come close to the hype. Go look through the archives of the VG-88 Yahoo groups from a few years back. You'll read about people dumping nice amps and saying that the VG-88 is everybit as good as their old tube amp, etc. Let me tell you some thing. The VG-88 is one of the coolest devices that I've ever had, but the amp simulations are nowhere near any tube amp at all! I have the money to say screw it, and get a "real" amp. But the Axe-Fx has me intrigued. In the back of my mind I remember "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me". I am skeptical, and rightly so. I'm not gonna dump $1400 on a piece of equipment just because someone I don't even know tells me it's great. OTOH, I don't necessarily appreciate being insulted, and asked to prove myself in some sort of a big d*ck style contest that means absolutely ZERO, just cause I am listening critically to clips and not drinking the Kool-aid no questions asked.

Oh, and the pic of me is about 12 years old, and yes my real name is Alex.

Having said ALL of this, it all doesn't amount to a damned thing in terms of having ANY relevance to my posts on this forum or my opinions. Whether I'm in Atlanta or L.A. or Japan, it doesn't change my opinion of any of the clips, or my cautious optimism. If I have been playing for 200 yeARS OR 200 days, it doesn't matter. I shouldn't be attacked for my opinions. Whether I have a solid gold Trainwreck and a rack of '59 bursts and '58 Vs or if I have an OLP guitar and a Gorilla amp, I shouldn't be called ignorant, or told that until I prove myself clip-worthy I should just be quiet or whatever. It's all a bunch of macho, immature defensive B.S.

Open your minds. Welcome all opinions so long as they are constructive and not destructive, and dump the stupid attitudes, and it'll be a much nicer place for everyone. Oh, and quit f*cking trying to judge people that you don't know just cause you are behind a damned keyboard, and quit acting self-righteous just because you own one piece of gear or another.

Brain21

[Scott Peterson]

Also, "play one, then coment" So if I create a sound clip with the brand new Marshall Super Duper Bestest Lead 500watt hadwired out of gold amp, and it sounds like crap, then by your own criteria you shouldn't comment until you have actually played one yourself?

Brain21

NO, I would not. But that's me.

Alex, I'll tell you straight to your face you really need to try one of these. No BS. I don't evangelize. I simply tell it straight.

What's funny is that I haven't heard what clips you don't seem so enthused over, because you've come on this board and made posts only on this thread and only for one purpose - to slam clips. All the clips. You've given your opinions to this point (before the post above) with no context at all, and every post you've had suggests a very big chip on your shoulder about clips.... and nothing more. I don't know you from Adam, but you've gone to great lengths to do nothing but supply evidence that you were trolling/stirring the pot because you offered zero background on you and where you are as a player. So sorry if you've been offended because folks didn't know who/what you were about at all.

You've also assumed, wrongly, a hell of a lot about me. I am not evangelizing the Axe-FX. I am digging a piece of kit I bought. I have one thread on this entire forum about it. I'm not out suggesting the Axe-FX on every "What xxxx should I buy to sound like....." thread. Past this thread, I've said zero beyond a few clips I've posted in the Clips section. Not that you'd notice, but I've bumped this thread only a few times yet posted on it hundreds of times over 94 pages thus far. I've only answered questions or tried to help folks with questions since my opening posts.

By now, we all understand, you don't like the clips you've heard. Fine. Either move on or take up my challenge to try one. Beyond that, you are beating a very dead horse. :horse

I don't really care what you think, to be honest. If you don't like my clips, fine. Thanks for sharing. No skin off my back. We cool? Good. Then realize that I am no different than you, but unlike you have found what I was looking for. That's it. Nothing more.

If you were seeking information, why not simply ask questions instead of limiting your posts on the Axe-FX board and on TGP to nothing but criticism of clips?

Folks did give you nothing but answers, you've been the one 'hiding behind the keyboard' to paraphrase your own comments. No one knew a) who you were; b) what you were about; c) what you were trying to get at.

All we've had is some anonymous guy, behind a keyboard, criticizing clips and not a) sharing a thing beyond those statements; b) going out of his way on two boards to simply criticize clips and add nothing more to the equation.

That's simply not how you seek information and lay bridges. You say right last night on the Axe-FX board: "I'm not here to make enemies, just to understand and learn, I PROMISE!".... well, you've done nothing to that end whatsoever to this point.

So now that you are 'out' in the open so to say, why not instead ask about what you need to know, want to know and take up the 30 day money back trial period you get with one of these.

Perhaps we've assumed th worst of you; you can't fault anyone for it. Now, hopefully you - and we - can move past that.

[scottl]

Sounds like my really good friend Barry Richman!!! Say hi for me....

One of the other guitarist that played isn't well known outside of Atlanta, but has has played and recorded with Eric Johnson, Eric Clapton, Steve Morse. and the list goes on. It was a lot of fun to play with him, and it still pisses me off that he got a great tone out of a generic Gibson V, a bixonix expandora, and a crappy Peavey Bandit practice amp mic'ed up! But I digress...

[RvChevron]

I didn't go thru this thread from page 1 to here, but this sounds pretty nice to me.


http://www.soundclick.com/bands/songInfo.cfm?bandID=638334&songID=5770425

[Jay Mitchell]

Sounds like my really good friend Barry Richman!!! Say hi for me....Small world. Barry's a friend of mine as well, from ca. 1980. We only played together briefly in one band, an original project, but we'd sit in at each other's gigs from time to time.

To Alex: if you can't get a good sound from the kind of gear Barry uses (or other equally simple rigs), then more gear isn't likely to be of much help. "Your tone is in your fingers" is a very true statement.

Who else do you guys know from the Atlanta music scene of the 70s and early 80s? Some of my friends/musical colleagues from that time are still active there. Bill Hatcher, Glen Phillips, Jody Worrell, Dan Coy, Tommy Strain, Tommy Vickery, Bruce Hampton, Earl Ford, Keith Runfola, Dan Lawrence, Jerry Fields, Don McBroom, and, of course, Barry, all still gig on a steady basis.

Edit: forgot to mention Tom Grose.

[bluesmostly]

Umm, my "clip-worthyness"?????
#1 - I'm not the one evangelizing a piece of equipment even if it does deserve it.
#2 - I haven't demanded or asked anyone to post anything
#3 - since when does anyone have to prove themselves worthy of listening to clips? ("clip-worthyness")

That's a bunch of B.S., sorry, but it's true. I have nothing to proce to anyone. I'm not saying that my equipment is so great and everyone should check it out. And for what it's worth, if the Axe-Fx lives up to your hype, I honestly don't blame you for evangelizing the unit, and when I listen to one, if I decide to buy it, then I may one day thank you for evangelizing the Axe-Fx. I, however, will never stoop to proving my "clip-worthyness" It's not a competition. That's a stupid attitude. What's next, who has the bigger d*ck? Come on Scott. You certainly seem a lot smarter than that to me. For now I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Also, "play one, then coment" So if I create a sound clip with the brand new Marshall Super Duper Bestest Lead 500watt hadwired out of gold amp, and it sounds like crap, then by your own criteria you shouldn't comment until you have actually played one yourself? If the clip sounds like crap, it sounds like crap. Now it wouldn't be right for you to say you didn't like the clip, so the amp must suck, but it is perfectly w/i your right to say "I didn't like that clip. If thats a true representation of the amp, I don't like it. If it's just a poor recording I'm willing to play through one and decide for myself." and that is EXACTLY what I am saying.

Brain21

Nothing off base about these points, Brian21 sounds perfectly reasonable to me. You are saying "based on the clips, I am not impressed" fair enough. Scott makes an excellent point too, if you need to know something, just ask. Lots of helpful people here. Carry on.

[Capn Spanky]

I'm startin to run out of popcorn! Better go back to the store. ;)

[Jarrett]

I'm surprised that anyone still has issues with clip quality after the 4.0 upgrades. I think at this point forward the clips took a leap in "realness" and rival the majority of tube amp clips I've heard on the Internet. Way beyond what I would need to hear to at least get on the list to try it if I was interested in this technology, which I am in a big way.

[guitarist58]

I posted this in another thread, thought it might be fun to post it here:

Fractal Audio offers a 30 day money back guarantee. You can try it at your leisure for an entire month! So it's a lot of money? It is for me, I can barely afford it... but if I don't love it, I will send it back! I figure it might cost me a whole $20 or so in shipping costs to send it back. For $20 I can play with it for a month!!!! If I decide to keep it, I obviously think it's worth it, right?? If I don't like it, am I all that worse off for $20??? I'd LOVE to do that with a Fuchs, Carol Ann, Louis, Bruno, Pure 64 an Egnater... can I do that?? :) Please??? OK, I guess not... I can't afford those anyway. But sheesh. An entire month.

Go ahead--make your decision based on other peoples recordings in mp3 format and/or wait for a year. For $20 I'm going to find out for myself. ;)


btw, Brain21, I wasn't really trying to do any detective work--just being silly :p
-Rocky

[guitarist58]

^^^ P.S. It might not even cost $20... It might go for a little more than the "waiting-list price" on ebay... ;)

[Tony Foran]

Speaking of clips,I always liked the way Eddie Berman demonstrated amps with his video camera. It would be great to see the same kind of presentation with the AXE-FX. Not that I have a problem with the clips I've heard.I think they sound really good. Just a thought.

http://www.indoorstorm.com/Video_Reviews-nd-7.html

[Capn Spanky]

I'm surprised that anyone still has issues with clip quality after the 4.0 upgrades. I think at this point forward the clips took a leap in "realness" and rival the majority of tube amp clips I've heard on the Internet. Way beyond what I would need to hear to at least get on the list to try it if I was interested in this technology, which I am in a big way.

Yes, I was one of the ones questioning the clips and I noticed an improvement after the firmware upgrade.

I'll add... that after a fair amount of critical listening, the Axe-Fx clips do have a superior quality that I rarely hear in other amp sims. IMHO, of course. YMMV... blah, blah, blah.

[stratzrus]

Yikes, I haven't been following this thread lately but I see this is truly the exact same mess it was a couple of months ago.
+1

I think after this I'm done with responding to the, "I don't like the clips" posts.

Others have touched on the fact that it takes skill and experience to record well. I know this to be true from first-hand experience, as I had a small recording studio during the 1980s and worked toward that goal of being able to record and engineer well...Not everyone can capture/showcase how great any given musical instrument can sound...

I may be overly conservative, but I'm witholding judgment on the Axe-fx until mine arrives and I can *ahem* actually try it myself. I am, however, very impressed with what I am hearing on the clips that are the most well done.

This sums it up for me. I have heard some clips that didn't sound great, but I attribute that to the artist not the gear.

stratzrus

[guitarist58]

Speaking of clips,I always liked the way Eddie Berman demonstrated amps with his video camera. It would be great to see the same kind of presentation with the AXE-FX. Not that I have a problem with the clips I've heard.I think they sound really good. Just a thought.

http://www.indoorstorm.com/Video_Reviews-nd-7.html

I really like Eddies' video demos too! I just wish more folks could do video clips with good mics, not a video cameras built-in mics.

[jzgtrguy]

Wow I am having the biggest Deja Vu right now!?!? I am responsible for many posts here but this is turning into the department of redundancy department.

[Jarrett]

Actually I'd rather hear an average player on a clip. You can't really get more critical of an amp than that. I love the video clips of every day joes playing an amp. There are no recording tricks going on there and no technique that transcends the equipment either. Just a regular player through a condenser mike, thats about as naked as an amp (or amp sim) can be.

[jzucker]

I have another outlook on this. If you're the type of player who feels the need to copy someone else's rig and you want to sound exactly like your guitar hero then you're probably going to be unhappy with anything but... I mean look at this place!?! Folks going on and on and on about the relative merits of one dumble clone vs. another and which one gets the most authentic robbon-tone. Personally, I love that tone but I don't want to get Robben's tone. I want to get MY tone. As soon as you learn to let go of the pre-conceived notion of what that other tone sounds like and you just honestly play with the axefx and learn to play it - AS YOU WOULD ANY OTHER AMP - you realize it's the most flexible tool out there. Will it sound exactly like Scott Lerner's Fuchs? Of course not. But it could end up sounding just like you which to me is the important thing.

[slide man]

This thread is like a soap opera! I will give you guys credit for staying civil. I dread the day a certain someone gets one and compares it to his Bruno:crazyguy. Any way I was just wondering weather the HAD model, or Trainwreck model was better. :Devil
Now that should keep things going for another thousand posts.

Slide Man

[guitarist58]

I have another outlook on this. If you're the type of player who feels the need to copy someone else's rig and you want to sound exactly like your guitar hero then you're probably going to be unhappy with anything but... I mean look at this place!?! Folks going on and on and on about the relative merits of one dumble clone vs. another and which one gets the most authentic robbon-tone. Personally, I love that tone but I don't want to get Robben's tone. I want to get MY tone. As soon as you learn to let go of the pre-conceived notion of what that other tone sounds like and you just honestly play with the axefx and learn to play it - AS YOU WOULD ANY OTHER AMP - you realize it's the most flexible tool out there. Will it sound exactly like Scott Lerner's Fuchs? Of course not. But it could end up sounding just like you which to me is the important thing.

Amen! :)

[CrossHair]

Someone say they want to see an average player demonstrate this using a digital camera? This is a very popular average guitarist in the Warren Michigan area who calls himself "Carlos Kenny". When I spoke with him I couldn't help but notice how he only spoke in a hispanic accent ... I really do think he thinks he's Carlos Santana!
http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q131/CrossHairSB/?action=view&current=PICT0001.flv

[bluesdoc]

Really bad artifacts but the cat was great! :D

jon

[electronpirate]

Really bad artifacts but the cat was great! :D

jon

At first I thought you were talking about his playing...uh...but then the cat chimed in! Classic!

[guitarist58]

Really bad artifacts but the cat was great! :D

jon

LOL--I didn't realize until I watched it--a real cat! :p



Nothin' tops that dancing bird though. :)

[Squigglefunk]

Someone say they want to see an average player demonstrate this using a digital camera? This is a very popular average guitarist in the Warren Michigan area who calls himself "Carlos Kenny". When I spoke with him I couldn't help but notice how he only spoke in a hispanic accent ... I really do think he thinks he's Carlos Santana!
http://s135.photobucket.com/albums/q131/CrossHairSB/?action=view&current=PICT0001.flv


best clip yet! he did that riff most excellently!

[brain21]

This thread is like a soap opera! I will give you guys credit for staying civil. I dread the day a certain someone gets one and compares it to his Bruno

Heh. I just posted over on the Axe-Fx forums... I just got off of the phone w/ Scott. We had a really good conversation, and I am more excited than I was before (if you could even tell) to try this thing out. I think we both understand where each other was coming from better now & everything is cool. :) I learned a lot about the Axe-Fx in the process. Gee, people should try this verbal communication thing more often. :-)

Brain21

[brain21]

To Alex: if you can't get a good sound from the kind of gear Barry uses (or other equally simple rigs), then more gear isn't likely to be of much help. "Your tone is in your fingers" is a very true statement.


Actually, I only partially agree with that very popular sentiment. Just as much comes from your ears. Your ears tell you how to dial in the amp the way you like it and basically give you the foundation of your sound to a large extent. Then comes your mind as far as phrasing and playing, and then your fingers in the way that they attack the strings. Of course it's a hell of a lot easier to simply say "your tone is in your fingers" rather than my long-winded version. :-) It was still fun, and he is the nicest, most humble guy out there, and an amazing player to boot! If you haven't seen him in a long time, he's gotten even better than back then I would imagine.


Who else do you guys know from the Atlanta music scene of the 70s and early 80s? Some of my friends/musical colleagues from that time are still active there. Bill Hatcher, Glen Phillips, Jody Worrell, Dan Coy, Tommy Strain, Tommy Vickery, Bruce Hampton, Earl Ford, Keith Runfola, Dan Lawrence, Jerry Fields, Don McBroom, and, of course, Barry, all still gig on a steady basis.

Edit: forgot to mention Tom Grose.

Well I didn't move to Atlanta till the early 90's. I first met Barry Richman years ago, and we keep running into each other. This was the first opportunity I had to play with him, though we were doing a friend's music, so it wasn't like we really got to jam or anything. :-(

I knew a lot of young local bands playing clubs, etc. in the mid to late 90's. Before I got into a band I was aquaintences with some of the guys from Follow For Now (we had a bunch of mutual friends - I seriously doubt any of those guys would remember me these days, it was a long time ago) and a few other bands back then, before the Atlanta local music scene went to crap in the mid-90s. I've met but never got to play with or anything guys like Jimmy Herring, and Peter Stroud from 65 Amps & Sheryl Crowe. He wouldn't know me by name, but would definitely know me by face. He demoed one of his amps for a long time ago and it sounded incredible. I wanted one till I heard the price. :-)

The music scene in Atlanta just really went south (no pun intended). For example, in the early 90's most of the bands all knew each other. They'd all play at each others' gigs and show up just to watch each other, and the band really formed a community and they all supported each other. You could go to just about any bar in town (even ones with no bands) and run into some other musician that you giged with before, or maybe their new band had a guy in it that used to be in one of your old bands, etc. Then, about the time I started getting into playing in the local scene, somewhere around 94 or 95 I think, things were very different. Bands had often adversarial relationships with each other, would screw each other on gigs, etc., etc. Locals went to bars to see bands a lot less often. Some bands that used to pack in large crowds were getting smaller crowds. and so one and so on. When my last band finally broke up due to everyone moving away for jobs or whatever, I just kinda got tired of it. Playing more prog-rock like stuff didn't help pack the venues either! :-) So, I kinda dropped out of it, just doing the odd studio thing here and there, and that was it. I miss it, and so now I'm looking to get back in. It'll be a lot easier now because I don't have aspirations to get signed and do tours, etc. I don't even have the time for that anymore.

So who do I still know? Not that many. As usual, life tends to get in the way. That's partially good, partially bad. :-) Barry is still a staple here. Peter Stroud I haven't seen I think in almost 2 years. He's constantly busy doing stuff. One of these days I need to get in touch with him, as I have a possibly interesting "project" for him. I think Col. Hampton might still do the odd gig here and there, but I can't remember the last time I saw an ad for him. I never met him, but got to see him a few times. I just kinda started to know and be friendly with Jerry Peek (Steve Morse Band), another monster player and the most humble nicest guy you could meet, and his job took him away from the south I guess sometime around 2002?. Last time I saw him he was playing w/ his afro-cuban jazz band, and my wife and I hung out w/ him at the bar between sets. I still remember getting Stuck Mojo's very first 3-song demo tape maybe around 92 or 93 and taking it to someone I knew saying "you gotta check these guys out, they are great!" She saw the tape and said "uhh, yeah. I'm managing them." :-) I got the tape from Rich (guitar player) and gave it to my buddy (actually at the time my boss) at Elektra records. He didn't really see the potential, but liked the tape nonetheless (he wasn't an A&R guy anyway, so it's not like he could have signed them, but he could have gotten it to the A&R guy and it would have had a better chance of getting listened to at least). There are some people that were staples behind the scenes back in the day that I just really have no desire to see either, if you get my drift... I won't name names here. :FM

Brain21

[brain21]

Sounds like my really good friend Barry Richman!!! Say hi for me....

I believe you're also on the Robben Ford msg boards, right? Why does it not surprise me that you know Barry? I think Barry knows everyone :-) Great guy, just wish the show we played could have had a greater opportunity for he and I to jam together or something. Just as well, I was pretty sick during the show, I might have just embarrassed myself. :-)

Next time I see him I'll say you said hi. If I don't see him for a while I'll get an email to him somehow.

Brain21

[Scott Peterson]

Breaking my own self-imposed rule not to bump this thread myself to note something very special.

Cliff posted the final version of the new firmware just this evening as I was logging on. I had the beta version, 4.00b in my Axe-FX, no issues with it. I downloaded 4.00 (final), backed up my Axe-FX and then loaded the new firmware. All well so far.

Turn it off, turn it on... check the firmware version - 4.00 dated November 6, 2007. All good.

Check presets....not good. All my amp sims that I had myself set to "global" (so when I change one version of "Plexi" then the new settings are updated across the entire unit where a Global Plexi is used); and *poof* they are all set to "Das Metal" (Diezel sim) which is.... not my amp sim for my Fender clean, Vox, etc....

So I send a PM to Cliff and post a thread on the Axe-FX Forum.

Here's the cool part.

Inside of 30 minutes, Version 4.01 (final) firmware is up and the problem is fixed.

BOOM!

Try to get that level of product support with your xxxxxxxxx processor.

My hat is off Cliff. Well done sire. Well done indeed.

[deadringer]

Breaking my own self-imposed rule not to bump this thread myself to note something very special.

Cliff posted the final version of the new firmware just this evening as I was logging on. I had the beta version, 4.00b in my Axe-FX, no issues with it. I downloaded 4.00 (final), backed up my Axe-FX and then loaded the new firmware. All well so far.

Turn it off, turn it on... check the firmware version - 4.00 dated November 6, 2007. All good.

Check presets....not good. All my amp sims that I had myself set to "global" (so when I change one version of "Plexi" then the new settings are updated across the entire unit where a Global Plexi is used); and *poof* they are all set to "Das Metal" (Diezel sim) which is.... not my amp sim for my Fender clean, Vox, etc....

So I send a PM to Cliff and post a thread on the Axe-FX Forum.

Here's the cool part.

Inside of 30 minutes, Version 4.01 (final) firmware is up and the problem is fixed.

BOOM!

Try to get that level of product support with your xxxxxxxxx processor.

My hat is off Cliff. Well done sire. Well done indeed.

Yeah I noticed that Scott. I saw the 4.0 final come up, and the next thing I knew it was 4.01. That man must never sleep, eat, or take any time off.

[dbeeman]

I am late to this party and have only read about half way through.
Hopefully I am not being redundant.


Anyone remember when CDs came out? Anyone heard a real hi end stereo with a "record player"? - It can still trounce a CD system. (Having said that I still listen to CDs). There will likely be folks that won't be satisfied with less than the "real thing" for some time to come.

I have no doubt this thing is a good tool and will work well for some. However, this what I would call 2nd 0r even 1.5 generation of this type of computer. These types of things are likely to drop in price considerably and get better, due to technology advances and economies of scale. Whereas tube amp technology is not likely to advance in a way to cause a drop in price. One could argue this will eventually obsolete most tube amps.

If you want/need one now, go for it, but plan on loosing at least half of your $$ in a couple/few years when you upgrade. That may be worthwhile for a lot of folks.

One place I think we will see dramatic improvement is in the user interface.
Anyone remember early PCs?

[Capn Spanky]

.......
I have no doubt this thing is a good tool and will work well for some. However, this what I would call 2nd 0r even 1.5 generation of this type of computer. These types of things are likely to drop in price considerably and get better, due to technology advances and economies of scale. Whereas tube amp technology is not likely to advance in a way to cause a drop in price. One could argue this will eventually obsolete most tube amps.

If you want/need one now, go for it, but plan on loosing at least half of your $$ in a couple/few years when you upgrade. That may be worthwhile for a lot of folks.

.......



I thought about this too and I think this is true about most digital hardware. But the Axe-fx appears to have more than enough processing power to do anything a reasonable person would expect. Plus, all the components are high-grade and excellent quality. I can't say that for my Pod. And if you're into recording like me, having a first class signal chain makes a difference.

Look at Lexicon reverbs. Units made in the 1980's and 90's are still highly desirable and they are all digital.

[Scott Peterson]

skepticism

One entry found.

skepticism
Main Entry:skep·ti·cism http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popWin%28%27/cgi-bin/audio.pl?skepti04.wav=skepticism%27%29)Pronunciati on: \ˈskep-tə-ˌsi-zəm\ Function:noun Date:1646
1: an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object
2 a: the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain b: the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism characteristic of skeptics (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skeptics)
3: doubt concerning basic religious principles (as immortality, providence, and revelation)


doubt

2 entries found.

doubt[1,verb] doubt[2,noun]
Main Entry:1doubt http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popWin%28%27/cgi-bin/audio.pl?doubt001.wav=doubt%27%29)Pronunciation: \ˈdau̇t\ Function:verb Etymology:Middle English douten, from Anglo-French duter, douter, from Latin dubitare to be in doubt; akin to Latin dubius dubiousDate:13th century transitive verb
1: archaic a: fear (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fear) b: suspect (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suspect)
2: to be in doubt about <he doubts everyone's word>3 a: to lack confidence in : distrust (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/distrust) <find myself doubting him even when I know that he is honest — H. L. Mencken> b: to consider unlikely <I doubt if I can go>intransitive verb: to be uncertain
— doubt·able http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popWin%28%27/cgi-bin/audio.pl?doubt002.wav=doubtable%27%29) \ˈdau̇-tə-bəl\ adjective
— doubt·er noun
— doubt·ing·ly http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popWin%28%27/cgi-bin/audio.pl?doubt003.wav=doubtingly%27%29) \-tiŋ-lē\ adverb


Reality:

http://www.mediafire.com/?0xy9e1iz5nb

[Jarrett]

I love the build up, but the link is blocked at work, dangit :)

[jzucker]

Anyone remember when CDs came out? Anyone heard a real hi end stereo with a "record player"? - It can still trounce a CD system. (Having said that I still listen to CDs). There will likely be folks that won't be satisfied with less than the "real thing" for some time to come.

A couple points. I have heard high end turntable based systems and I disagree that they trounce CDs and in fact, double blind tests have been conducted where people could not tell which was which.

Secondly, what is "the real thing"? The real thing is the sound that come out of the speakers. It has nothing to do with the technology used to create the sound. What I can tell you is that when I am playing through the axefx with the volume turned up enough to generate some touch and feel dynamics, I am never thinking about tubes vs. digital. All I'm thinking is how great the tone is and how wonderful the feel is. If it doesn't turn you on, then it may not be for you but I could care less whether mine sounds exactly like a dumble or a '60s fender. My sound comes out.

If you want a fender, get a fender. If you want a dumble get a dumble. It's really that simple.

[Ben F.]

Anyone remember when CDs came out? Anyone heard a real hi end stereo with a "record player"? - It can still trounce a CD system. (Having said that I still listen to CDs). There will likely be folks that won't be satisfied with less than the "real thing" for some time to come.

We already had the Nyquist discussion/debate here: http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=110192

Suffice it to say that any differences are due to the recording quality and not the medium. But yes, there will always be those who are dissatisfied.

Whereas tube amp technology is not likely to advance in a way to cause a drop in price. One could argue this will eventually obsolete most tube amps.

Right. The price may not drop, but widespread demand will likely evaporate.

One place I think we will see dramatic improvement is in the user interface. Anyone remember early PCs?

That's one of the reasons I'm still on the fence. I think Fractal's interface is beautifully executed, but on the face of it I still would prefer to control it like an amp. I'm wondering if a compromise can be reached where all of the deep editing and patch creation is done from a PC but the live control panel is nothing but a few knobs plus a bank of footswitches.

-Ben

[Marcello]

skepticism

One entry found.

skepticism
Main Entry:skep·ti·cism http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popWin%28%27/cgi-bin/audio.pl?skepti04.wav=skepticism%27%29)Pronunciati on: \ˈskep-tə-ˌsi-zəm\ Function:noun Date:1646
1: an attitude of doubt or a disposition to incredulity either in general or toward a particular object
2 a: the doctrine that true knowledge or knowledge in a particular area is uncertain b: the method of suspended judgment, systematic doubt, or criticism characteristic of skeptics (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/skeptics)
3: doubt concerning basic religious principles (as immortality, providence, and revelation)


doubt

2 entries found.

doubt[1,verb] doubt[2,noun]
Main Entry:1doubt http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popWin%28%27/cgi-bin/audio.pl?doubt001.wav=doubt%27%29)Pronunciation: \ˈdau̇t\ Function:verb Etymology:Middle English douten, from Anglo-French duter, douter, from Latin dubitare to be in doubt; akin to Latin dubius dubiousDate:13th century transitive verb
1: archaic a: fear (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fear) b: suspect (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/suspect)
2: to be in doubt about <he doubts everyone's word>3 a: to lack confidence in : distrust (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/distrust) <find myself doubting him even when I know that he is honest — H. L. Mencken> b: to consider unlikely <I doubt if I can go>intransitive verb: to be uncertain
— doubt·able http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popWin%28%27/cgi-bin/audio.pl?doubt002.wav=doubtable%27%29) \ˈdau̇-tə-bəl\ adjective
— doubt·er noun
— doubt·ing·ly http://www.merriam-webster.com/images/audio.gif (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popWin%28%27/cgi-bin/audio.pl?doubt003.wav=doubtingly%27%29) \-tiŋ-lē\ adverb


Reality:

http://www.mediafire.com/?0xy9e1iz5nb


:munch
Nice but keep trying

[Scott Peterson]

:munch
Nice but keep trying

There is no try. There is only do. If you don't like it, then make your own music your own way. And share it. I promise to not pee in your thread when you do. Can you promise me the same thing?

[deadringer]

Okay I understand that the Axe Fx may not be your thing but that clip is pretty sweet. Maybe it's because I have tin ears, or that I'm not used to that sort of tone (not my style preference) but I thought it sounded good, and would have regardless of what it was made with.

I quit getting the shocked and awed feeling about a great sounding clip done on a modeler though, just because I know it's possible.

[Marcello]

There is no try. There is only do. If you don't like it, then make your own music your own way. And share it. I promise to not pee in your thread when you do. Can you promise me the same thing?

:eek: WTF?

Man it was really a nice tone but most modelers have a decent clean tone anyway. The real test for me is the in between tones, on the verge of breakup.
This is getting absurd.

[jzucker]

:eek: WTF?

Man it was really a nice tone but most modelers have a decent clean tone anyway.

Huh? None of them have a good clean tone except the axefx, though guitar rig's isn't bad. I do agree that the "on the verge of breakup" is hard to get in any amp, much less modeler.

[Den]

You can't be serious ... the clean tones have always been where modelers have the most difficult challenge competing with tube amps.

[Marcello]

You can't be serious ... the clean tones have always been where modelers have the most difficult challenge competing with tube amps.

I disagree. I think hi gain tones are buzzy, in between are awful. However clean tones like a jazz tone for example are decent, just listen to CarlosEduardo on TGP, his clips with amplitube are great. It's just how I hear it.
But again there are many kind of clean tones !

[Scott Peterson]

Marcello,

Thanks for your opinion. It is valid and am glad you've expressed it. However, we will have to disagree on what you hear and what I hear.

A quick scan of your last 50 posts (which anyone can do by clicking on your User Name) has you criticizing players, bands, tones and your last few dozen posts are all anti-Axe-FX. Fair enough, but I suggest you create your own music, with your own chosen gear and share it with the world. Build a bridge instead of tearing down what others are working on and with.

[Squigglefunk]

You can't be serious ... the clean tones have always been where modelers have the most difficult challenge competing with tube amps.

yeap, I agree, and honestly, that clip is struggling as well. I'd never call that a "fender" clean. It's clean alright, maybe a bit too clean.

The newest digitech rack processor, GSP1101 actually has some pretty convincing semiclean tone clips that I heard over on HC.

VOX AC30 (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/voxAC30.wav)

Fender Deluxe Reverb (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/fenderdeluxereverb.wav)

Fender Tweed Deluxe (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/fendertweeddeluxe.wav)

HIWATT (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/hiwatt.wav)

Dual Rectifier (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/dualrectifier.wav)

JCM900 + Big Muff (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/jcm900bigmuff.wav)

Digitech Clean (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/digiclean.wav)

Digitech Blues (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/digiblues.wav)

Digitech Chunk (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/digichunk.wav)

Digitech Crunch (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/digicrunch.wav)

Digitech Fuzz (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/digifuzz.wav)

Digitech Metal (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/digimetal.wav)

Digitech Tube (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/digitube.wav)

AC15 (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/voxAC15.wav)

JTM45 (http://users.skynet.be/fa426926/JTM45.wav)

from member "Golguth"

not too shabby

[brain21]

I disagree (as far as clean tones being problematic for modelers). In my experience, modelers can do clean tones pretty well. It's that clean tone on the verge of breakup where they really fall short in my experience.

My Vox ToneLab SE does great clean tones. It even does a decent job on some of the "on the verge of breakup" stuff, but not all. A lot of the Line6 stuff did great clean, but again, lacked at that verge of breakup, or when the tone just starts to get gritty. It also varies individually. I felt like my old Line6 AX2 amp did a good job on say the Vox clean sound, but when you brought it to the verge of distortion, it just didn't cut it. There was too much (IMHO) top-end brittleness. Hell even my ToneLab had a lot of top-end brittleness, and still does, but replacing the stock EH tube w/ a GT Mullard reissue helped tame that a lot.

Where the modelers REALLY fail, and where apparently the Axe-Fx really shines is dynamics. The "interplay" between how hard you attack the guitar, and when the power amp really pushed the speakers and imedance changes and changes the charactaristics of the sound, is where all modelers really just fall flat. Some have made admirable attempts, but aren't there yet. Actually that's an understatement. They just don't do it. It seems like most cab simulations, to my ear at least, in my Line6, Vox, and Roland modelers, as well as software really use an EQ profile as a "cab sim". Technically speaking, I'm sure much more than that goes into it, but the end result behaves like an EQ curve. Zero dynamics between the speakers and amp head. Supposedly the Axe-Fx does an amazing job in this respect, and is one of the reasons why this unit is apparently leaps & bounds ahead of the rest.

As far as clips, there are so many variables in producing clips not only in the settings on a unit such as a modeler, but also the way the real tube amp is dailed in, the way mics are placed, the quality of the original recording, any quality loss in the mp3 conversion process, etc. that it really is difficult to judge anything by any clip.

An example - I have hear a lot of Axe-Fx clips where I felt I could get just as good a sound or perhaps even better out of some of my modelling equipment. But there there are clips like Scott's recently posted Marshall clip where I would be willing to bet that that clip sounded better than most mic'ed Marshall stacks, unless you are either lucky or really know how to mic and record an amp well enough to let it's true tone be heard. Even in such a case sde by side one might not be able to really tell the difference in a blind test. I have heard tones of marshall tones on record that just blow compared to the one simple clip posted by Scott a few days ago.

IOW, there are just too many variables. The whole CD vs vinyl vs mp3 vs whatever else is essentially a moot point. There are just too many other variables at stake.

I think the best thing to do when listening to the clips is to not think "this is how it sounds and I do/don't like it" or whatever. Listen to the clips just to really get a very basic idea of the *possible potential*. If you like it so far, (and I said like, not love, or be blown away by it), then find one in your area to try, or get on the list and try one with the 30-day money back guarantee and try it for yourself. Even Scott Lerner stated that he played with it briefly, really was surprised by it but wouldn't use it instead of his amp. Then he followed up that statement with a very important caveat; he said that he didn't have that much time to tweak it, and he thinks that it might be possible to get "that sound" that he is used to (I'm paraphrasing here) when he gets a chance to really spend time with one. To me, that is probably the fairest "review" of the thing yet. Scott has one on order, so I'd be really interested to hear his opinion after he's had a few weeks to really tweak the thing, and get deep into editing it.

Brain21

[Scott Peterson]

And here's the rub past even the "clips" debate.

What I like to hear and play is not the Fender Clean that Den calls Fender. But when I set up a Fender Twin to play clean, that's the way I dial it to sound. (Modeling or not). I've played through hundreds of Twins, and I dial them in for the same type of tone.

Taste is subjective. Clips are not useful past hearing what you want to hear, or hearing what you don't want to hear (but think you do anyway). All this is subjective.

And that's fine. But let's keep it real and call it what it is. I like this flavor with this tool. If you don't, that's cool. But don't try to convince me one way or the other and I'll promise to not try to convince you one way or the other. It's pretty easy to ignore this thread if ya wanna. It's just one thread in one forum on the Net.

I listened to a few of those clips from the Digi, and that is not what I like in tone or what I want to hear inside those clips. That's no knock on the player, his tools, the Digi or his recording/encoding. That's my taste and I recognize it as such.

In the next few weeks I will be tracking a lot of stuff, and using different tools - but including the Axe-FX. Most of the little clips I've done were simply spot checks to hear what I wanted to hear in them. And I shared a few. To share them, not trying to convince Marcello or anyone else.

It's all subjective. That's a fact and not an opinion. :D

[AndrewSimon]

"Clean tone players" always think that modelers struggle with clean tones.
"High gain players" always think that modelers struggle with high gain tones.

It makes sense, you put the highest demand on your field of expertise.

SO PEOPLE IT'S ALL COOL
LET KEEP THE PEACE

As my wife says:

http://codepinkalert.org/catalog/images/No%20Peace%201.jpg

:munch

[Den]

...
Where the modelers REALLY fail, and where apparently the Axe-Fx really shines is dynamics. The "interplay" between how hard you attack the guitar, and when the power amp really pushed the speakers and imedance changes and changes the charactaristics of the sound, is where all modelers really just fall flat. ... Brain21

Well said ... and that is exactly the problem I have with the clean tones from modelers. A clean tone without dynamics is not a great (or even good) clean tone in my book.

This is another example of why we can all see things so differently. I can see where someone might consider a hi-fi, or sterile sounding tone as a great clean. Others prefer fat, middy tones, or some will choose clean tones that sound far too trebly to my ears. In my case, clean tones without dynamics and that three-dimensional life to them leave me cold ... difficult to put into words, but I know it when I hear it.

It's all good.

[Den]

"Clean tone players" always think that modelers struggle with clean tones.
"High gain players" always think that modelers struggle with high gain tones.

It makes sense, you put the highest demand on your field of expertise.

SO PEOPLE IT'S ALL COOL
LET KEEP THE PEACE

As my wife says:

http://codepinkalert.org/catalog/images/No%20Peace%201.jpg

:munch

LOL ... very true. Your wife is a smart girl!

[Marcello]

A quick scan of your last 50 posts (which anyone can do by clicking on your User Name) has you criticizing players, bands, tones and your last few dozen posts are all anti-Axe-FX.

I'm sorry but this is a lie. I've been on this forum for 3 or 4 years, never had any problem with anyone and I'm usually very positive when people post clips, see my posts in the Clips section. What you're trying to do here is just wrong. I don't need to justify myself. We disagree and that's cool. Funny how people overreact when you criticize their toys.

[Jay Mitchell]

What you're trying to do here is just wrong.Wrong? First, what do you think he's "trying to do here," and second, why is it wrong?

[stratzrus]

Hell even my ToneLab had a lot of top-end brittleness, and still does, but replacing the stock EH tube w/ a GT Mullard reissue helped tame that a lot.

I've found they are really good for that...they've really helped in my Rivera KHR-100

As far as clips, there are so many variables in producing clips not only in the settings on a unit such as a modeler, but also the way the real tube amp is dailed in, the way mics are placed, the quality of the original recording, any quality loss in the mp3 conversion process, etc. that it really is difficult to judge anything by any clip. +1 Big time!

An example - I have hear a lot of Axe-Fx clips where I felt I could get just as good a sound or perhaps even better out of some of my modelling equipment. But there there are clips like Scott's recently posted Marshall clip where I would be willing to bet that that clip sounded better than most mic'ed Marshall stacks, unless you are either lucky or really know how to mic and record an amp well enough to let it's true tone be heard. Even in such a case sde by side one might not be able to really tell the difference in a blind test. I have heard tones of marshall tones on record that just blow compared to the one simple clip posted by Scott a few days ago. Absolutely, and Scott and others are just beginning to explore the depth of this box...what will the patches sound like this time next year when people have had enough experience with it that they will be able to dial it in on instinct? I can't wait...

IOW, there are just too many variables. The whole CD vs vinyl vs mp3 vs whatever else is essentially a moot point. There are just too many other variables at stake. Wisdom.

Even Scott Lerner stated that he played with it briefly, really was surprised by it but wouldn't use it instead of his amp. Then he followed up that statement with a very important caveat; he said that he didn't have that much time to tweak it, and he thinks that it might be possible to get "that sound" that he is used to (I'm paraphrasing here) when he gets a chance to really spend time with one. To me, that is probably the fairest "review" of the thing yet. Scott has one on order, so I'd be really interested to hear his opinion after he's had a few weeks to really tweak the thing, and get deep into editing it. And that's where the rubber meets the road.

Good post.

stratzrus

[Scott Peterson]

Marcello,

Come on man. You have a major chip on your shoulder over something, and I suspect it has more to do with me than it does with the Axe-FX or anything else. Search your own posts and look at that you've said in the past month. All I am doing here is talking. The rest is your interpretation, which judging from your posts, is off base.

Check yourself and back off the hysterics. You don't like my Axe-FX, you don't like my clips. Fine. Did I make you open this thread? No. I posted a thank you for your opinion on your Axe-FX "Not Convinced" thread and you busted my balls there too.

Chill man. We get it. So what? This isn't some sort of Internet death match, we can all dig what we dig without getting worked up.

Relax and bring forth music man.

[brain21]

And here's the rub past even the "clips" debate.

What I like to hear and play is not the Fender Clean that Den calls Fender. But when I set up a Fender Twin to play clean, that's the way I dial it to sound. (Modeling or not). I've played through hundreds of Twins, and I dial them in for the same type of tone.

{snip}

It's all subjective. That's a fact and not an opinion. :D


I agree with this post 100% :-) And it's certainly something that everyone should keep in mind when listening to anyones' clips

Brain21

[Brian G]

Here's my POV.

I don't have mine yet, and I of course don't know what my reaction is going to be to the AXE FX vs. my tube amp (Rivera 2-12 FWIW), but I've heard enough positive opinions and POTENTIAL from clips to know it's worth it, to me, to pony up and get one, and see for myself. And I hope to own and love it for a long time. The idea of such flexibility combined with the **probability** of great tones is just too tempting. :drool

And unlike the majority of people here, I don't care about how well it records or direct-outs to a PA. I only care about how it sounds in-room. So I also don't care about patches that work equally well for the different situations.

For that reason, I found scottl's post to be informative (thanks for that, Scott, by the way!). I found it particularly interesting in light of the fact that many current users are gravitating toward FRFR amp / speaker solutions, but Scott L. (during an admittedly brief encounter) preferred it with a guitar cab.

But I also found Scott Peterson's experiences with the PRX to be equally enlightening and informative.

Great info guys, thanks to all.

Back to your corners now. :munch

[stratzrus]

After my Ultra comes I'm gong to be pretty wiped out of cash to spend on gear so I'm just going to use an Atomic 112-50 that I've got laying around or perhaps my Randall RT2/50 and some cabs (2x12, 4x12...whatever).

While I don't anticipate hauling it around for gigging, if I develop some patches that I absolutely love and really need them onstage, a FRFR speaker might be in the cards, but I'll wait until I've got the unit up and really humming to decide.

Each amplification system has its strengths and drawbacks and should be weighed on it's own merits. I'd expect personal tonal preferences to weigh in heavily regarding whether to go traditional guitar cab or FRFR powered monitor.

stratzrus

[scottl]

Finaldo emailed me that he will be in town again this Sunday. I can do more testing if I want!!

Although my unit should be shipping soon.

Regarding guitar cab vs. FRFR, I am very used to the sound of my rig with a guitar cab. Therefore, at first, for me it is easiest to compare the unit to amp through the same type of cab. Otherwise, the sound on FRFR in the room versus the open back cab is quite different.

A million guitarists have used open back Fenders etc for the last 60 years or so. It is a ubiquitous sound and feel. Using FRFR is certainly different. Not saying better or worse, but an acquired taste maybe. I certainly would NEVER run the AXE-FX without stereo monitors if I were to run FRFR. That is a definate. I think the sound would be way improved if you take advantage of the stereo nature of the AXE-FX. I tried it in mono.

I usually play smaller gigs, as well as very small jazz gigs with acoustic instruments. I don't mic up for those. I am very used to the sound of a "normal" guitar speaker/cab arrangement.

[Jay Mitchell]

A million guitarists have used open back Fenders etc for the last 60 years or so.Well, quite a few have played through Bassman ("piggyback" head/cab), Dual Showman, Marshall, Traynor, Sunn, Acoustic, etc., etc. closed back cabs as well.

It is a ubiquitous sound and feel.I know what you're saying, but open-back cabs cause "sound and feel" to vary all over the place, depending on the local acoustics. Closed cabs are less prone to variation in this way.

Using FRFR is certainly different.Until you've experienced an Axe/FRFR system with really good cab sims and tone settings tweaked to work with those sims, you have no idea how similar the experience can be to playing through an actual guitar cab. I would never consider using FRFR if that weren't the case, and my present tube amps have open cabs.

[mitch236]

I have been following this thread for a while now. Based on what I've been reading, I ordered one. If this works out, I owe this board. Imagine, I can go out with merely a rack and a powered monitor. How easy it that? Also, the rack will be so small, I could easily take it with me every night and avoid theft. I hope this works.

I do have one question though, since I don't really want to "program" it, does it come with presets that have effects blended with the patch? I'm hoping I could just go through all the presets and choose the ones I like and slightly modify them to taste. Is that the way it is?

[scottl]

Exactly, which is why when mine arrives my good bud :D Jay is going to help me! LOL I need an acoustical engineer to set me right.

Btw, I lived in Atalnta from 84 till 87. Used to play at Cafe 290 every weekend. I usually caught the Visitors at there shows. Where I met Barry.

http://www.scottlernermusic.com/images/Barry_I.jpgUntil you've experienced an Axe/FRFR system with really good cab sims and tone settings tweaked to work with those sims, you have no idea how similar the experience can be to playing through an actual guitar cab. I would never consider using FRFR if that weren't the case, and my present tube amps have open cabs.

[mitch236]

And BTW, what is FRFR?

[jzucker]

My Vox ToneLab SE does great clean tones.

No it doesn't. I've owned 2 of them and an LE and the cleans are lacking for the kind of stuff I do. Maybe a slightly dirty strat clean but not a big flatwound high dynamics clean.

[Brian G]

Full range, flat response. It means the monitor, amp etc. has a (comparatively) neutral response, and covers most of the audible frequency spectrum. Keep in mind that "neutral" is often a relative term. A PA monitor is neutral compared to a guitar cabinet, but may not be compared to a truly flat-response hifi speaker.

[electronpirate]

And BTW, what is FRFR?

Full Range Flat Response.

And yes, you can tweak the presets. I did that at first, then started creating my own when they were'nt quite *right* for me.

EP

[Jarrett]

Out of the box, does the Axe-FX come tweaked more for a powered monitor or a tube amp/guitar cab setup?

[Scott Peterson]

I have been following this thread for a while now. Based on what I've been reading, I ordered one. If this works out, I owe this board. Imagine, I can go out with merely a rack and a powered monitor. How easy it that? Also, the rack will be so small, I could easily take it with me every night and avoid theft. I hope this works.

I do have one question though, since I don't really want to "program" it, does it come with presets that have effects blended with the patch? I'm hoping I could just go through all the presets and choose the ones I like and slightly modify them to taste. Is that the way it is?

Out of the box, does the Axe-FX come tweaked more for a powered monitor or a tube amp/guitar cab setup?


Out of the box, it comes with a bunch of presets that show what it can do. Some guys just tweak them and go with it, some guys build their own from scratch.

What I recommend is this:

Plug it in and output in stereo to a powered studio monitors or speakers setup first. Check the presets and take notes about what you like (so you can find them later).

Then choose a patch number (the presets are duplicated on three banks, so if you blow one out, you can get it back if you really need to) and blank the whole thing out. Drop in an amp sim and a cab sim in the middle and tweak it for your ear to get a feel for the different parameters. Essentially, treat it like you are dialing in an amp, any amp. There's a lot inside just those to get you rocking. Once you get happy, do some more.

But then, using your notes, start adding in reverbs, delays and/or whatever makes you happy. Route them in different ways, try different things and have fun getting a feel for what you can do. You'll find it is very fun, fast and much simpler to get around on the thing than it might appear at first.

Start simple and work out from that. Add things as you need to.

[electronpirate]

Out of the box, does the Axe-FX come tweaked more for a powered monitor or a tube amp/guitar cab setup?

Comes setup for a powered monitor. Just bypass the cab sim (and to taste, turn the 'sag' in the amp to 0 to bypass the poweramp sim), if you go into an external amp and cab situation.

Like Scott sais, try it all, since sometimes you might like the poweramp sim in there, and some folks have liked the cab sim in there to a lower extent.

EP

[Jarrett]

Thanks for the info, Scott. All the info you've provided in this thread. I'm really looking forward to checking this thing out at this point.

Thanks EP. I'm really holding out to use this thing with a powered monitor. If I have to resort to a tube amp to make this sound good, its going back. I've got a great sounding tube amp already. If I want to go tube, I can get an Eganter M4 and a nice effects unit and a nice tube amp and rack them up. I'm looking for that killer tone in a shoebox sort of rig, ie two space rack and powered monitor.

[Jay Mitchell]

If I have to resort to a tube amp to make this sound good, its going back.As well is should. I've said before, in response to recommendations to use "modeler-friendly" tube amps (e.g., Atomics) that, if you have to play one through a tube amp to make it sound like a tube amp, it can't be much of a "modeler."

I made some money back in the 1970s modding tube amps for other pro guitar players, and I've got a couple now that I've modded to get exactly the kinds of sounds I want to hear from my instruments. The Axe is good enough that, when I don't want any effects, I don't care whether I play through it or one of the tube amps. I've even cloned some of my amp sounds in the Axe, just "because it's there," but I'd never go for a clone of something for actual playing use. The Axe can sound like any kind of tube amp you can think of, whether or not a "real" counterpart actually exists.

And the quality of the audio I/O and effects is as good as any gear out there, including vintage Lexicon, Eventide, etc.

[gulliver]

Interesting stuff ... for those late to the party like myself, this is an excellent sample. I give the answer below so you don't have to sort through the thread...

http://www.setbb.com/axefx/viewtopic.php?mforum=axefx&t=931&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&mforum=axefx






Half the people listening probably have their speakers hooked up wrong, but anyway ... the left side of the clip will be the model and the right side will be the real deal.

[Ray Gianelli]

I am late to this party and have only read about half way through.
Hopefully I am not being redundant.


Anyone remember when CDs came out? Anyone heard a real hi end stereo with a "record player"? - It can still trounce a CD system. (Having said that I still listen to CDs). There will likely be folks that won't be satisfied with less than the "real thing" for some time to come.

I have no doubt this thing is a good tool and will work well for some. However, this what I would call 2nd 0r even 1.5 generation of this type of computer. These types of things are likely to drop in price considerably and get better, due to technology advances and economies of scale. Whereas tube amp technology is not likely to advance in a way to cause a drop in price. One could argue this will eventually obsolete most tube amps.

If you want/need one now, go for it, but plan on loosing at least half of your $$ in a couple/few years when you upgrade. That may be worthwhile for a lot of folks.

One place I think we will see dramatic improvement is in the user interface.
Anyone remember early PCs?

A good point; this, like any of the other gear we use, is simply a tool. However, a good tool won't become useless just because something better comes out. I still gig with a Rocktron Replifex, no longer manufactured. I've used this unit for over 10 years. There are other processors out there, but I still to this day prefer the Replifex for my time based effects. I think I'd have to drop a lot of money to get what I feel would be an incremental improvement. Just my opinion.

I am on the waiting list for one of these. Who knows, it might just be time to retire the Replifex. :)

[electronpirate]

I think without a doubt the replifex will go.

There are just TOO many parameters to really have a 'knobs' situation. It's suprisingly easy once you get used to it. The only problem I have with it is that in a dark room, it's a little difficult to see the buttons.

I do wish to a certain extent that a UI *could* be done for it, but I just flat out don't see that...unless it's made compatible to one of the outboard type controllers.

And I want to see this thread hit 100 pages.

EP

[larbear63]

And I want to see this thread hit 100 pages.

EP

me too:munch

[Den]

...

There are just TOO many parameters to really have a 'knobs' situation. It's suprisingly easy once you get used to it. ... EP

Agreed. The idea of an "amp" without conventional amp controls can seem to be inconvenient. On the other hand, if we think of this box as replacing an entire rig, then the Axe-FX interface makes more sense.

In a conventional rig, think of the work moving amps, cables, and switchers ... rewiring and moving pedals around on a board ... changing cabinets, mics, etc. With this box, scrolling through some parameters and punching a few buttons makes similar changes in a much faster, easier way. We often have to develop another skill set to make the most of a new technology, but in the long run it's worth the effort.

[Den]

Not only 100 pages, but 100 pages without getting "kicked in the head with tone!"

[mitch236]

Will the output controls on the Fx control line level output? I would like to control the volume of my powered speakers without going to the speakers.

[AndrewSimon]

Will the output controls on the Fx control line level output? I would like to control the volume of my powered speakers without going to the speakers.

Sure.... but why not insert a "volume block" in the "virtual grid" then hook up a volume pedal to the AXE-FX and set it to control volume!
Voilà, volume at your feet.
This is just one idea, there are many other possibilities, the AXE-FX is very flexible when it comes to things like this.

;)

[electronpirate]

Not only 100 pages, but 100 pages without getting "kicked in the head with tone!"

Only if he sends Cliff a Bruno!

[godprobe]

Hey, one more post to 100 pages! (in Linear display mode anyway) Figured I'd sign up here now (thanks for the assist, Scott!).
Hi everyone!
Should have my Ultra in 1-2 months I think.
Carry on!

[rickboot]

Mine should arrive any time now. Can't wait to get it.

Are we at 100 yet?

[ToneKing]

I've been tracking this since the first few posts, been waiting for that 100 page count.

[electronpirate]

Rickboot is the winner!

Updating tonight to the new firmware! Foolishly pumped up for that.

Ah, it's the little things.

EP

[Stratosphere]

Well, it took a hundred pages to do it but I'm on the list for an Ultra.

I've got to try this thing out. It sounds like the Axe-FX could be way too much fun to miss out on.

[guitarist58]

Mine should arrive any time now. Can't wait to get it.

Are we at 100 yet?

Mine too! :BOUNCE

3.78082 months now. Hurry up! :Spank



btw, if anybody's interested I found a cool calculator for counting days: :p
http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

[stratzrus]

Mine too! :BOUNCE

3.78082 months now. Hurry up! :Spank

btw, if anybody's interested I found a cool calculator for counting days: :p
http://www.timeanddate.com/date/duration.html

Damn, I though this would be a calculator that, when I entered my order date, would give me my delivery date...:jo

[electronpirate]

Impressions are that Cliff is getting ready to finish up a big shipment around January, so in theory everyone on the lists now should be happily noodling away by Feb.

EP

[larbear63]

wtf

[Blueswede]

wtf


And this means exactly what????

[guitarist58]

^^^ hmmm possibly this: "wtf" was my first thought when I read the post about Jan./Feb. since I've recently heard the wait is 3-4 months (I was hearing 3 months when I got on the list) and it's almost 4 months for me now. That would make it 6+ months...

[will132]

^^^ hmmm possibly this: "wtf" was my first thought when I read the post about Jan./Feb. since I've recently heard the wait is 3-4 months (I was hearing 3 months when I got on the list) and it's almost 4 months for me now. That would make it 6+ months...


Same here, but I think a lot of guys are paying full price to not have to wait, an option I wasn't aware of when I got on the list 4 months ago.

[Jarrett]

The wait thing is definitely a PITA, but I'm glad its in place. It's given me time to decide whether I need it or not based on feedback from owners.

[Blueswede]

Here's a link to a great interview with Cliff regarding the AxeFX.....

http://www.musicgearsource.com/fractal.html

[remocity]

Very enjoyable and extremely informative article.............
I'll take one...
The Axe-Fx, not the cat!

[jzucker]

New axefx clips here:

http://www.sheetsofsound.net/axefx

[bluesmostly]

Got an expression pedal coming (Roctron to go with the Rocktron MidiMate controller that I am using) so I can use the wah thing. How easy is it to have the wah set up so I can use it on any given patch? Right now I have about a dozen amp tone presets that I use. Thanks.

[morphine]

Darn... I've read through 101 pages of this thing, and no-one has *yet* said how the Axe-Fx behaves using an Atomic. Some have asked, but I can't believe that no one here tried it yet!

[Scott Peterson]

Got an expression pedal coming (Roctron to go with the Rocktron MidiMate controller that I am using) so I can use the wah thing. How easy is it to have the wah set up so I can use it on any given patch? Right now I have about a dozen amp tone presets that I use. Thanks.

It's easy. Once you set up the controller pedal to control wah, just either copy it to all your presets or dial it in each one.

Darn... I've read through 101 pages of this thing, and no-one has *yet* said how the Axe-Fx behaves using an Atomic. Some have asked, but I can't believe that no one here tried it yet!

I sold my Atomic before I had a shot to. Ask this at the Axe-FX forum; there are guys running this rig there.

[deadringer]

Got an expression pedal coming (Roctron to go with the Rocktron MidiMate controller that I am using) so I can use the wah thing. How easy is it to have the wah set up so I can use it on any given patch? Right now I have about a dozen amp tone presets that I use. Thanks.

You ordered the Hex pedal right? You may not like it for wah. I have one and it works great for expression stuff but the sweep feels just wrong for wah. Setting it up is easy enough though.

[bluesmostly]

You ordered the Hex pedal right? You may not like it for wah. I have one and it works great for expression stuff but the sweep feels just wrong for wah. Setting it up is easy enough though.

yup, the hex, what one do you recommend dead?

[electronpirate]

Darn... I've read through 101 pages of this thing, and no-one has *yet* said how the Axe-Fx behaves using an Atomic. Some have asked, but I can't believe that no one here tried it yet!

There's a guy on the Axe-FX board who runs 4 50 watt Atomic's...2 per side. Crazyness.

EP

[deadringer]

yup, the hex, what one do you recommend dead?

Sorry, I can't really recommend another. I've always been a hard core fan of switchless spring loaded wahs. I owned a 95q from Dunlop before the Axe Fx and I already owned the hex. I tried the hex out for wah duties and I didn't like the sweep and in the end I just went back to the 95q. I liked the Axe Fx's wah sounds but I couldn't get over the lack of the spring.

There's a guy over at the Axe Fx forum that does custom mods to old crybaby wah pedal to enable them for midi use that people are raving about, you may want to check that out.

[oddb0d]

Can someone let me know how hard it is to get a dotted 8th delay on this unti? Does it support Rhythmic delays in the same way the Boss DD-20 does? I love being able to tap out a dotted 8th by tapping the straigh beat. I can see how this is perfect for studio where you can set the dotted 8ths etc to a click track, but in a live situation where you don't play with click tracks it can be a huge pain. Any have any comments?

[cliffc8488]

Can someone let me know how hard it is to get a dotted 8th delay on this unti? Does it support Rhythmic delays in the same way the Boss DD-20 does? I love being able to tap out a dotted 8th by tapping the straigh beat. I can see how this is perfect for studio where you can set the dotted 8ths etc to a click track, but in a live situation where you don't play with click tracks it can be a huge pain. Any have any comments?

Dotted eigths (and quarters and sixteenths, etc.) are supported natively. Simply set the tempo to dotted eigth and tap the tempo in at the beat rate.

CC

[AndrewSimon]

umm.....

http://www.andras-shimon.com/AXE-FX/PANNER.mp3

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_shrug.gif

[jzgtrguy]

That was awesome!:rolleyes: Thanks! What amp model(s) were you using. Great Clip!:RoCkIn

Jeff

umm.....

http://www.andras-shimon.com/AXE-FX/PANNER.mp3

http://www.kvraudio.com/forum/images/smiles/icon_shrug.gif

[Capn Spanky]

That was awesome!:rolleyes: Thanks! What amp model(s) were you using. Great Clip!:RoCkIn

Jeff

Yeah, the break up on that was warm and buttery!

[stratzrus]

Darn... I've read through 101 pages of this thing, and no-one has *yet* said how the Axe-Fx behaves using an Atomic. Some have asked, but I can't believe that no one here tried it yet!
I read that the Atomic sounds good but won't allow maximum usage of the speaker and/or mic sims that a JBL will.

I'll be using the Atomic when my Ultra arrives and will decide then whether or not I'll need to upgrade to a FRFR speaker. Ultimate portability/giggablility will not be my main concerns since my Ultra will be used mostly for recording pre-production and only very occasionally for playing out.

For practicing, the main use my Ultra's amp will see, the Atomic 112-50 should be fine...at least initially...and at $425 used they are quite reasonable.

If I were gigging with it regularly though, having a FRFR monitor that accruately reproduced patches, developed for recording, when playing live through the PA and the monitor would be a big plus. In that case, the JBL would be hard to beat.

I really don't anticipate significant problems using the Atomic as a "bedroom" monitor though. Since I have one already it's worth a try.

stratzrus