Fractal Audio Axe-FX - this thing is a Monster

[Scott Peterson]

Finally.

The Axe-FX is for real. All of it. It's the delivery of the promise I've wanted to believe, and I've tried to create over the years. It's a monster rig in a box. No corners cut, nothing to workaround. No excuses. No apologies. No qualifiers. It is Reality V.2.

Skip the 'modeling' thing. Skip the 'emulation' thing. Skip the tubes vs. everything else. It's simply game over. There is now a very real and viable alternative to tube amps. Better or worse? That's up to you. The point is that there is now a VERY real tone rig out there that really does it all.

First, some context. I've been playing guitar since 1981 or so. Been in bands pretty much since 1982. Done mostly rock, then alternative rock, roots rock, funk, blues, country, soul, R&B, and alt-country. I was a co-writer, co-producer, and guitarist in a regionally successful alt-rock band in the mid-90's in the Midwest. I've wrote, recorded and released a solo instrumental CD that I put out in 2001. I've played covers and originals on national stages at outdoor festivals to thousands and from little corners on the floor in a bar where 1 drunk was ignoring us. Ego isn't my trip, I am not a flash player and more a dedicated player in it for love of playing guitar than a wanna-be, never-was, or has-been. Or maybe I am all three of those too. :D

In the past few years, from my mid-30's on, I've tried to expand my musical horizons and play other genre's. I've been in a funk covers band, backed singers doing R&B, Motown, Soul, Pop, Rock, alt-country. Done duo's acoustically with just a singer besides myself. Playing solo guitar for wedding ceremonies.

I have done a lot of different rigs over the years; been a gear-hound since the beginning. I've gone from solid state amps in my early days to rack systems in the late 80's - early 90's. Then got into tube amps; Rivera Rake, Knucklehead,TBR-1SL, TBR-2SL, K55-12; Germino Club 40, Lead 55; Bogner Shiva, Ecstasy Classic; Dr. Z Rx; Guytron GT-100; Matchless Clubman, DC-30; GT Solo 45; THD Flexi; VHT Pittbull 45, Deliverance, 50/ST; GDS/Guytron 18watt modded hand-wired clone; Koch Multitone; Hughes & Kettner Switchblade; Atomic Reactor 112-50, 112-18; Fender Twin; plus extensive experience with various Marshalls, Vox's and other vintage Fender's. I've done guitar-cable-amp rigs, guitar-pedals-amp rigs, guitar-rack rigs. Boutique to pro-sumer. Channel switchers to non-MV single channel amps. Pedals into clean amps; no pedals into channel switchers. I'm a tweaker , I get inside of tube amps, I change preamp tubes and power tubes. I have a great stash of NOS tubes, both power and preamp tubes. I set my own bias on my amps. I don't mod them, but have had them modded when necessary.

And lots of modeling rigs. Owned a ton of Line 6 and Vox; extensive experience with Roland, Korg and Digitech. Messed with the first Gen Fender modeling amps a band member owned. I've used them direct, through full range solutions, and through guitar amps and then the modeling-centric Atomic Reactor tube amps. I have a very well traveled thread onTGP about making modeling work for me; using buffers, passive resistors, pedals, etc. to work around well-known and now cliche modeling issues such as: 'No feel' 'thin' 'digital' 'fizzy' 'no cut' 'grainy' etc etc.. I've created hybrid tube amp/modeling setups and ran with them for periods. The results have ranged from bad to good. It has never in any way, shape or form on a purely tonal player's level approached a guitar-cord-good tube amp.

The rub for me has always been to somehow create a rig that does it all. That's everyone's quest. The prefect rig. I started a thread in the Amps section of TGP that turned into a massive thing - "Post Your Rig"; even a few pages of it shows the absolute range of what guys use. Everyone's taste and needs are so different. It's daunting for a company to try to create a product that does 'the perfect rig' for everyone. And this Fractal Audio Axe-FX won't be the siren call for everyone; but I have to say, it just might be there for me.

A little back story on how I found out about this and took a chance getting one. I heard the rumors that some guy was developing the ultimate rig using only the finest components, starting from scratch doing his own modeling processes and approaching the whole 'modeling' thing from his own paradigm. He didn't ape existing methods, had the background and capability to shape the development of the thing and then - because he is a guitarist (and a pretty good one that plays out) - make it actually make sense to work with. You can run it direct in, you can run it into a power amp and cabs, you can run it as an effects only processor. This is no compromise, Eventide quality and level effects, coupled with a monster preamp that redefines the term 'modeling'; offering you tremendous range of tones and nailing the feel and response of a tube amp; that also can be used live into a power amp and cab, direct toFOH or into a recording rig (or all at the same time). Cliff Chase is the guy; he worked on top secret sonar stuff for the Navy as an electrical engineer. This guy has the vision, the brains and the common sense needed to pull this off, make it work and deliver the goods. A few things caught my interest early on - he didn't follow the Line 6 paradigm of trying to exactly ape a given amp. Cliff instead offers you more of everything to let you decide how your tone should sound. For a few examples, look at how he created non-interactive tone controls. He offers you preamp and power amp separately. In the power amp section alone, you have control over Presence, Hi-cut, Depth (output impedance), Deep (modifies the negative feedback to the power section to enhance the low-frequency response), Dampening (amount of negative feedback), Sag (affects power supply impedance and therefore plate voltages on the power tubes),Lowcut frequency, Tone Frequency (the center frequency of the tone controls), Transformer Low Frequency, Transformer High Frequency, lets you set the tone stack in the preamp. And more. That's simply the power section. That caught my attention big time. You can also simply turn off the power amp section and use a real tube power amp into a real cab.

I love wah. He doesn't simply ape a given wah for instance; you get the tools to create your own. I have a beloved Fulltone Clyde. I've owned it since 1997. It is serial number 44; and has been serviced twice by Mike Fuller because I simply wore it out. Nothing has ever touched it for what it does; but it isn't perfect for all situations. On clean and crunch stuff - it's the bomb. Under massive gain, it's not so good. I've aped it with the Axe-FX and then created other wah's for higher gain patches where they needed it. And the Axe-Fx wah sounds, reacts and feels exactly like a freaking wah. Recorded, live, whatever. You can set it up as a lowpass, bandpass or peaking filter. You set the frequency range max and minimum. You set the Q of the filter and then the Q tracking of the filter. Then you can adjust the frequency of the filter relative to the minimum and maximum of the frequencies. It's crazy.

So those two things - among others - set me thinking about it. On a whim I heard a few things on TGP about it and did some Googling; and found out the thing is now real and out there. I got on the list early in April 2007, did a gear sell-off to pop for it and here I am.

My finances have been rocked in the past few years; I can not carry massive expensive rigs, nor justify the range of amps I would need to truly keep myself happy with the different situations I play in. In the funk covers band, the GT Solo 45 and a massive pedalboard was divine. For rock covers, theBogner Shiva, Rivera Rake or VHT 50/ST with a few pedals was the bomb. For backing Alyssa Simmons (pop/rock/soul/Motown), the Germino Club 40 and a massive pedalboard was *it*. For doing my alt-country projects, the Matchless, THD Flexi or Germino Club 40 were perfect with a few pedals. Can't do all that anymore. I have gigged with the Roland Cube 60, I have gigged with the Line 6 PODXT Live and Atomic Reactor 112-50. It can work, but will never curl your toes. If given a choice, I am going to go with the tube amps and I know what I like.

So the promise and expectations of the Axe-FX is that it could do everything I would want with simply a power amp, cab and controller/expression pedal for live work. Have to go direct? No problem. Direct *and* into a stage rig (power amp/cab) at the same time? No problem. Recording direct in my home studio? No problem. Effects I like and use (compressor, wah, phaser, flanger, chorus, rotary, delay, reverb?) No problem. Ability to go beyond what I could do in the past - formant filter (like a talk-box) but would want for a tune or two if called for? No problem. He created a 'grid' where you basically can lay out your entire rig any way you want; parallel, serial, side-chain, in virtually any order you want. You can come 'outside the box' and use the effects loop anywhere you want in a variety of ways; patching otherpreamps or effects or using it like I do to get signal to the external power amp and cab before the amp sims inside that are plugged directly to the FOH . It has two of almost everything it does (on the Standard model) available for you to do. You could create one preset with two side-by-side rigs and record them in stereo for instance. The patching and mixing and panning capabilities still boggle my brain. Noise gate, compressor, filter, graphicEQ, Parametric EQ, Chorus, Flanger, Phaser, Rotary, Wah, Formant Filter, Pan/Tremelo , delay, multi-delay, reverb, amp (preamp and power amp), cabinets, drive (OD Pedals), Pitch shifter, effects loop, mixer and feedback send/return. It's got controllers galore: tempo,LFO, ADSR , sequencer, envelope, pitch and you can use a good old fashioned midi controller with expression pedals and attach them to most anything you would want to attach them too. Whew.

He's used the finest components from the military level insanely powerful processor to the A/D and D/A converters, he's added no junk, cut no corners and used his own proprietary algorithms. Just simply his amp algorithms (one of them alone) would not run on PODXT, Vetta or the H&K Zenterra. They don't have the processing power to do it right.

It's a helluva lot to promise from a small start up company; and pretty heady stuff if it lives up to the billing. The 30 day trial was the final thing that tipped me towards trying it out. Sometimes you just gotta say, what the f*** and go for it.

****continued below****

[Scott Peterson]

****Continued from above****

So here we are. In the past few months I've been running a old school Rocktron Voodu Valve preamp into a Bruce Egnater designed Randall RT2/50 power amp. I took the Rocktron in on a trade for some pedals and on a lark tried it out. It completely blew away, IMHO, the entire POD XT based rig I had spent years working on. Even cut direct with the speakers sims on the VV simply was superior in every way you can fathom. It has it's flavor and isn't 50+ amps in a box. It does from clean to scream and all points in between. The effects are pretty good. You give up a tuner and it's limited in the way you have to set it up to run effects (only one at a time plus delay and reverb); but the root of it all is tone. I found a very used but very functional used Randall RT/2 power amp sitting for a year at the local GC; turned on everyday for that year and turned all the way up (with mismatched and unbiased tubes it turns out); yet it works and once setup correctly it kills. It's midi switchable; you get your choice of most any two sets of power tubes you like. I have Phillips NOS 5751A (6L6 like) and GT 6CA7's (EL34's) on the other side. You set the bias externally; it's just insanely good sounding for the money. The ability to run whatever tubes you like for whatever preamp setting you like is fantastic.

I dropped the Axe-FX in the rig; and checked out the presets. I am not, nor have I ever been, a 'use the presets' guy. I am listening for things I use later when I build my own. I approach presets like they are rigs; in processors like the Axe-FX, you are literally building the entire pedal-amp rig. Every element, just like 'real life'. The pedals, the settings, the order. I stuck on a preset that wasEVH's "Brown Sound" and once I got inside that one and got to tweaking it to my ear, that became the sound. That's the sound of a distorted guitar that I've damn well chased from the time I started playing. I've come close - many times - but here it was. Stripped of all the effects except slight reverb (3% wet slight) and nothing else, I started building presets for what I'd need right away. I would be cutting a commercial jingle and was about to get rehearsals underway for a new classic rock/modern rock/alt-country cover/originals project/band that I am starting up. Dropped in my tube powered rig into my cabs (Tone Tools Fat Cat 212 with Guytron 55 speakers) I know what I like, what I want and I know what I hear. So off I went.

It's all there. The body, the punch, the push. The top end, the air, the swirl. That magic thing you get in a room when you make tubes work. The gliss, the shimmer, the gooey, crunchy crunch. The magic 'it' you know when you feel and hear it. It was right. No settings to twiddle, nothing to adjust outside of the tone controls. Like an amp. A really good amp. A bunch of hella good amps. I A/B'd with the Rocktron VV, and the VV still has a good sound but it isn't like an amp. It's just a good sound. The Axe-FX is everything you want from an amp. (And a rig to boot).

Well, I had to try out some things before I got any further. The guitar's volume pot works right. I tried the Radial Dragster, so indispensable to me with the Line 6 stuff - added nothing. Dropped my go-to buffered pedal, my Xotic RC-Boost. You could hear the buffer change the signal, but it didn't add or make anything 'better'; it merely was the buffer I was hearing. That's amazing. No modeler, preamp, whatever, ever did that. Only the better amps I've had did. Built up a clean tone I liked; I tried some pedals into it; they were just like plugging into an amp. That's amazing. I could spend a few paragraphs on that alone. But I won't. It just 'is'. Unlike other processors, modelers or amps to some extent, it sounds very good very simply. You don't *need* to tweak to sound good. But if you do, you are utterly rewarded.

Over the next day this past weekend, I built up 10 presets that will cover me for most of my needs for now. When I do cover tunes, I am not an 'exactly' like the recorded-tone chaser. Tone-wise, I am more of a 'get the spirit and attitude' right and add my own flavor to it. I like Fender-like cleans, Tweed pushed dirty OD tones, Matchless/Vox single coil edgy tones, JCM 800 rhythm sounds (basically a more gained Plexi sort of tone); Modded pushed Marshalls, Bogner, Soldano and Recto type of heavier tones. I am not a shredder, not a Dumble/Two Rock/Fuchs sort of guy. I like what I like and do what I do. I am using my Rocktron Midi-Mate to control it, but am already feeling very constricted by only having 5 CC buttons; I could build virtual pedal boards with everything I would ever need for a given preset and never need more than a few total presets per gig if I could turn the effects on/off within the preset like a big pedalboard.

Building raw presets, before any effects or such, simply the amp (and cabs for direct stuff) was akin to sitting with an amp designer/builder/mod maestro while you poked for more or less of this or that. You are tweaking to simply get better; not working around things. That's important. That's were the whole modeling thing, to this point, has always been a problem. You simply HAD to tweak to work around this or that to use the range of tones that were supposed to be in it. This cab sounds awful, that gain is fizzy, gained chords sound good, but single note lines sound thin, it goes on forever. There is none of that here. It simply 'is'. I took the Matchless 'model' and created a hybrid DC-30/Clubman type of sound that I had dreamed of.. but could not get in real life or 'virtual' life to this point. I'll say this and mean it, it's better than 'real'. Because it is a tone I wanted, always wanted, but never found before. Yet here it is. Boom.

I am not an effects maven. I know what I want, but don't get all the parameters and settings and such to get them. I don't study choruses for instance. I can plug in a chorus pedal and tweak the settings till I find what I want and then I am fine. That's a shortcoming - for me - with the Axe-FX in a way. I have to mess with settings to get the sounds I want. Pretty much by trial and error with the effects. I get delays and reverbs from mixing digitally over the years; not a problem. But a chorus with all these parameters and settings takes a lot of trial and error. But that's also a strength because I am into the tweaking on the amps and find the whole process of seeing what happens when you take a sound you like and try different flavors of it. It's fascinating. Most of the effects sound pretty good by just turning them on. You need to go into them and mess and it doesn't take hours; but with things complicated like some modulated stuff, it can be a bit of a trip. It is what it is.

Now where does this leave me? I've cut a commercial jingle with it and had a rehearsal with it in a full band setting. The results are deeply satisfying. The tone, feel and capabilities are there. The thing delivers. In a room, with my power amp and cab it sounds insanely rich, reacts, feels, and just cuts with power, punches hard when pushed and sounds good even dialed down volume wise. There's no rush to tweak this or that; turn this up or down. I can use my guitar's volume to lower the gain and my attack to get the range of sounds I am used to with a good amp. I could literally cover a gig with most any of one preset with a solo boost (that I can dial in inside the box via any number of methods, but I like a graphicEQ). For the commercial jingle I cut direct through the digital out, here's the producer's reaction to it: "That box you tracked with is the first "not-an-actual-amp" that I have heard that can sit in a mix with "real" amps and bass. I've listened to the tracks and the mix over and over. In fact, I went back and forth between my Roccaforte track and your Marshall track, and they both sounded equally real to my ear. So basically, if you told me you'd recorded a Marshall and a Soldano, I'd have believed you (I'd also have thought you did a great job miking the amps!). I'm predicting that thing will become a studio staple as soon as the word gets out."

This thing is real. It isn't another modeler, or another processor. It isn't an amp sim. It just 'is'. I can't remove myself from how utterly delicious it is to simply crank it up and play it and feel it and listen to it; the exact thing I've done all my life with an amp that I truly got excited about: I simply enjoyed just listening to. I've never, ever, just 'listened to and enjoyed' a modeler before. I don't listen to the Axe-FX and hear 'a little more of this, a little less of that'. I just hear 'it'. It has that thing, that feel, that organic element you can only get from an amp. Plugged in direct, it sounds like an ampmic'd out in the room and you are in the control room listening to it. Same *exact* experience. It's a disconnect, because it sounds 'in the other room' but that's how it works in real life too when you mic up a speaker cab. That fake plastic toy-tone that other 'sims' and modelers give you isn't there. It's just the tone.

So longtime friend/bassist asked me if I was going to try to set the world on fire and champion this box and get everyone to try it, hear it, want it, buy it. I honestly replied that I don't want anyone else to buy it. I want it all for me. I don't care if everyone one in the world goes out and buys one, they won't sound like me. I sound like me. I don't sound like you, even through your rig. And vice-versa. In the modeling world, everyone wants your presets. Even if you took hours and hours to build them, they just want them. Gimme. I get that; I've learned a lot from studying other folks' presets on other devices and learning from them. But I don't use them; I build my own. I'll put up some of my presets on the Axe-FX exchange site; but not all of them. The key is that I don't care if anyone else buys this, agrees with me or wants this. But I do feel obligated to hip folks to the fact that this thing is out there, it exists and for a lot of guys, this thing is THE answer. Anyone that wants more from their rig. Tube, solid state, digital, analog, whatever. This transcends all that. It's a mind blowing rig. There is no longer any stigma you can attach to a word or a way to get your tones; I have this and I've used it and I hear it. It's just semantics now; use what works for you. But if you are looking for what this does, it gives up the goods. It's real. It delivers on the hype, the promises and doesn't need excuses or apologies.

I didn't get into the effects; especially the delays or reverbs here. Suffice to say, they are not the same as, but on the same level as the absolute best-of-the-best out there. On any platform. I haven't even tried the pitch shifter and many of the controllers; they don't appeal to me and I don't use them. I haven't used this long enough to give a reliability report; but the fact that the owner/developer is active online, reachable and fixes bugs/issues ASAP in real time (folks found an issue, he had a new firmware update the next day uploaded) is remarkable. He's beat his for 3 years, left it in a trailer, in heat, and cold and it's never hiccuped. You don't need a voltage regulator with this (the Line 6 stuff did, under brownouts, it'd shut off) and I just use a plain old PL-8 conditioner with it. There is a software editor in beta that is as nice as anything Line 6 (which does that end of it very well) ever put out.

Is it for everyone? Yes and no. Some guys are happy with what they have. Some guys don't like anything not tubes, or even remotely digital. This transcends that, but they won't care. Some guys are petrified of menus and midi and computers. It's cool. But for guys/gals looking for the real and I mean first REAL box that does it all, the time is now. It's happened. It's here. It is.

Finally.

Clips to come once I can come up for air.

[Pa'ani]

Hi Scott,
Thanks for sharing the in depth and very informative report
on the Fractal Audio AXE-FX.
Can't wait to hear some clips!

[Lucidology]

WOW... wonderful review Scott..
Very informative... can't thank you enough ..

[solo-act]

Ha ha ha I saw this one coming from Scott as soon as I spent a few days with mine back in early June. Had a feeling he'd put up a massive review!

I've had mine a month and 4 days I concur with Scott's review--wait--I haven't read it all yet :) I might get to doing a review myself...........if I could just turn the damn thing off and quit playing through it. Ok, ok -- I can at least change my sig. There....hey! where'd all my gear go?

[gassyndrome]

Great review, and I'm hanging out for the clips :AOK

[Hacksaw]

Thanks for taking the time for the review, Scott. I am looking forward to this unit. Mainly for the effects. but its great to hear the difference from the Rocktron VV. as I had the original model and know exaclty what the difference in reference is.

Since ya wont sell me yours, I'll just have to wait to get mine. :D

[MikeyG]

Wow, when you review, Scott, you review!!!!!

All very well said.

All my big modeling concerns have been addressed with this unit.

I think I'll go play now!

[daddyo]

Scott, do I have this right -you are running the Axe-FX into a Randall RT/2 power amp and then into a Tone Tools Fat Cat 212 with Guytron 55 speakers?

[teleamp]

Scott, could tell us a little more:D. Just kidding, great review.

IF the Fractal Audio AXE-FX is all you say it is, it sounds like a great tool. I look forward to hearing one.

MikeY

[Jarrett]

Scott, I keep track of your posts because ultimately I am looking to find a rig like what you are describing here. I'd like to check this thing out, do you have a link for it?

[teleamp]

Scott, I keep track of your posts because ultimately I am looking to find a rig like what you are describing here. I'd like to check this thing out, do you have a link for it?


Here you go: http://www.fractalaudio.com/

The pricing is comparable to TC Electronics stuff. I do have a Goodsell S17 RT 2X10 that I could sell to get me one.

I knew there had to be a good alternative to keeping an arsenal of amps and pedals.

MikeY


MikeY

[NuSkoolTone]

Scott,

How does this fare direct into a PA/Monitor? I am often a keyboard player/2nd guitar player in bands, but can't bring myself to use a POD (Hate the sound!).

So I end up lugging TWO rigs. Would love to just throw a 10 lbs rack in my keyboard rack/case and throw it through the mixer! PLUS I'd have only ONE source to give the sound guy!

So as a keyboard player I'm not afraid of Tweaking. I also love the idea of versatility and own an RM4/RT2-50 setup but have never been convinced of it's "Do it all" mantra, even though the tones are pretty good. So far my (boogie) mark IV is killing it though. Either rig is HEAVY!

BTW, did you get the ultra or the standard? What's the real difference between the two?

[riffy]

Scott,
I haven't posted here in a while and wouldn't have seen this post if a friend hadn't hipped me to it... I have to be honest here as well, I have had an Axe-FX in the house for about 8 months now. I find it to be all you said and then some.

I have owned all kinds of amps from Soldanos to Cornfords, Mesa, and the elusive MarkIIC+. I have to be brutally honest and I know many here and elsewhere will disbelieve, the Axe-FX is the best piece of kit I have EVER
owned. I would take it over any amp at any cost that I have personally tried. I know there will be naysayers, there always are, but for me, this
unit is simply as you say, "it".

I am now playing in a fusion band of rotating members, one evening we will have a trumpet player sitting in with us, the next a sax player and a keyboardist. The next a smokey voiced singer. This thing going direct sometimes cuts through just like any rig I have ever used and I can't tell
it isn't my tube amps blazing away.

I hate to liken this to a tube amp, but if you want that sound, it is here.
I LOVE the power section controls. Just using them and one preamp setting
I can yank so many tones out it isn't even funny. I really dig using my volume and tone controls on the guitar, they work just LIKE THEY SHOULD with the Axe-FX.

I can't say enough about what Cliff has done with this unit. The customer service he gives is unreal. He actually takes what people want and adds it to the Axe-FX for download. He listens and he is a player. That my friends makes all the difference in the world.

I actually hope he sells a BOATLOAD of these things. I don't have to worry about anyone copping my presets either, they won't sound the same using them. Just like on a "real" amp players sound different, they will with the
Axe-FX too.

Gary

[mctallica1]

Hot damn.

I have been chasing my tail for what you describe above for years.

Have a transaction pending on one of the original models (owner is on the list fot the Ultra and as soon as he gets it, the Axe FX is all mine...woohoo!!!!!!!).

Excellent, insightful review.

I can not wait to play through this thing and my VHT 2/50/2 poweramp:cool:

[Lution]

I'd love to hear clips from Scott. I checked Fractal's website out a few months ago when I was on the fence and thinking of going Vetta or XTC. Decided to go XTC and am glad I went that way.

The audio clips on the site, at the time I checked, were pretty washed over with effects so i couldn't really hear it's pure tone. Scott's clips I'm sure will be pretty much the pure stuff that this rig can do.

Looking forward to hearing it.

Robbie

[Jarrett]

So whats the prefered live setup for this thing? Into a tube amp? Digital power amp? Guitar cab? PA cab?

[Jarrett]

Are the clips on the site accurate? They seem a little Line6ish

[riffy]

So whats the prefered live setup for this thing? Into a tube amp? Digital power amp? Guitar cab? PA cab?


I have run it both direct to PA and into a tube power amp and cab.
Either way works for me. Direct is actually better for the band mix,
as I don't have the cab behind me blazing, cluttering up the onstage
sound. I like my own cab as a monitor though.

[Echoes]

lots of words but no clips....clips please.

[Jarrett]

lots of words but no clips....clips please.

Some here: http://www.fractalaudio.com/sounds.html

[MightyGuru]

If Eric Johnson gets ahold of one of these we'll never hear from him again...tweak!

Awesome review... gas pang inducing quality.

[riffy]

Echoes,
I am riffy. You didn't buy or love your Shiva on clips did you?
This isn't meant as a knock. It is simply true. You fall in love with
something by hearing and playing it yourself. Same with this unit.
You have to experience it for yourself. Everyone will sound different
using it.

[Echoes]

Echoes,
I am riffy. You didn't buy or love your Shiva on clips did you?
This isn't meant as a knock. It is simply true. You fall in love with
something by hearing and playing it yourself. Same with this unit.
You have to experience it for yourself. Everyone will sound different
using it.

Hey Gary.....I know what your saying, I have owned a number of the 'processor' amp modeler units and have had the initial excitement turned to disappointment when using the gear (all the line 6 stuff and Rocktron Prophecy etc..) in a live band situation. I have always found the units to be fun to dial the effects and stuff in a situation where I am alone at the studio etc... but have never been able to make the transition to a live situation without disappointment...I am curious as to why there isn't a ton of clips demonstrating this unit. I am also curious to hear if the unit has to rely on its effects to make it sound 'authentic' in a mix. I have been burned by 'buying into the hype' on these modelers and remain very skeptical until PROVEN otherwise....I really hope this unit is all it claims (and other claim it) to be, it would certainly make life alot easier than lugging around HEAVY tube amp gear.

[electronpirate]

Thanks Scott for the review. I've been gushing for months, and nice to see some other folks here start to 'get it'.

EP

[electronpirate]

Hey Gary.....I know what your saying, I have owned a number of the 'processor' amp modeler units and have had the initial excitement turned to disappointment when using the gear (all the line 6 stuff and Rocktron Prophecy etc..) in a live band situation. I have always found the units to be fun to dial the effects and stuff in a situation where I am alone at the studio etc... but have never been able to make the transition to a live situation without disappointment...I am curious as to why there isn't a ton of clips demonstrating this unit. I am also curious to hear if the unit has to rely on its effects to make it sound 'authentic' in a mix. I have been burned by 'buying into the hype' on these modelers and remain very skeptical until PROVEN otherwise....I really hope this unit is all it claims (and other claim it) to be, it would certainly make life alot easier than lugging around HEAVY tube amp gear.

Clips and other peoples testimonials aint' gonna help you then. Get one and see what we're talking about.

And you have to look at the people who are saying this, what they've owned, level of experience. If they were all 'Well, I've been playing for a year, and Death Metal is my gig', and they gave a rave review, you'd be safe in wondering. But since we've heard this from so many long time players (who have incidentally ALSO gone through all the other 'modeling' tries as well), you might give up on the 'PROVE it to me' attitude since you are clearly not going to be satisfied until you TRY it.

[KLB]

Can it be true, finally? News at 11.

:munch

[Echoes]

Clips and other peoples testimonials aint' gonna help you then. Get one and see what we're talking about.

And you have to look at the people who are saying this, what they've owned, level of experience. If they were all 'Well, I've been playing for a year, and Death Metal is my gig', and they gave a rave review, you'd be safe in wondering. But since we've heard this from so many long time players (who have incidentally ALSO gone through all the other 'modeling' tries as well), you might give up on the 'PROVE it to me' attitude since you are clearly not going to be satisfied until you TRY it.

yea, your right...difficult to get gear in the Northwoods of Wisconsin without buying it though...OK, it is IMPOSSIBLE. I put alot of credence in testimony from guys I know and respect AND clips to make determinations on gear...and even then it doesn't always pan out...I'm not a huge effects guy either, maybe a little delay and some phase here and there on the cleans etc...

[hasserl]

Are the clips on the site accurate? They seem a little Line6ish

Yeah I agree. Not real impressive. Like the Line 6 gear I'm sure there are a lot of very cool tones in there, and the clips show the versatility of the rig. But sad to say, those amp simulations aren't cutting it.

Maybe an improvement over the Line 6 stuff, but so far I'd say Scott's review sounds better than those clips do.

I've been around long enough to see plenty of new latest and greatest things come and go. Will this be another one of them? Time will tell. I'll keep playing with and enjoying my toys in the meantime.

[digital jams]

Yeah I agree. Not real impressive. Like the Line 6 gear I'm sure there are a lot of very cool tones in there, and the clips show the versatility of the rig. But sad to say, those amp simulations aren't cutting it.

Maybe an improvement over the Line 6 stuff, but so far I'd say Scott's review sounds better than those clips do.

I've been around long enough to see plenty of new latest and greatest things come and go. Will this be another one of them? Time will tell. I'll keep playing with and enjoying my toys in the meantime.

So you are saying that without a doubt you can pick out that unit everytime in a blind guess the amp test?

Sounds like you are saying that.

[Jarrett]

Some of the clips here are nice: http://www.setbb.com/axefx/viewforum.php?f=3&mforum=axefx

Still interested to hear what setups people use with this live.

[MikeyG]

I dialed in some plexi n bf fender tones today that are exceptional ... and I had a virtual pedal board in front for all my gain tones.I didn't care for the plexi clip, the 'grain' level wasn't right to me... it wasn't until I started personalizing the thing, that I got the big wow factor....

[hasserl]

So you are saying that without a doubt you can pick out that unit everytime in a blind guess the amp test?

Sounds like you are saying that.

I'm saying those clips aren't real impressive. You're putting words into my mouth I didn't say.

Now, if you have some clips of one of these units that are better, by all means, post them. I'm all ears.

[Random Hero]

Some of the clips here are nice: http://www.setbb.com/axefx/viewforum.php?f=3&mforum=axefx

Still interested to hear what setups people use with this live.

There's a VH clip on there that sounds really great.

I'm definitely curious about this unit.

[stratton]

Yeah I agree. Not real impressive. Like the Line 6 gear I'm sure there are a lot of very cool tones in there, and the clips show the versatility of the rig. But sad to say, those amp simulations aren't cutting it.

Maybe an improvement over the Line 6 stuff, but so far I'd say Scott's review sounds better than those clips do.

I've been around long enough to see plenty of new latest and greatest things come and go. Will this be another one of them? Time will tell. I'll keep playing with and enjoying my toys in the meantime.

Agreed. To my ears, they displayed everything I dislike about digital modeling, perhaps to a lesser degree. Didn't make me want to dump my Eclipse, either. I use a POD XTLive in the studio a lot, BTW. Side by side with the amps they model.

I'll definitely keep watching this one, though. This could be the most significant challenge to Line6's stuff in a long time. Kind of gives Line6 permission to raise prices too....

[Scott Peterson]

Sorry, been busy at work today.

Quick answers: I own the Standard. The Ultra has more of everything, and primarily has more effects. They don't interest me; YMMV. There's a list of what it does on the Fractal site. Someone put a link up on the first page of this thread.

I am using this with the Randall RT2/50 into Tone Tools Fat Cat 112 or 212 both loaded with Guytron 55 speakers. Same speakers and cabs I liked with my Germino amps.

Don't turn this thread into a pissing match about clips. I am not a salesman for the Axe-FX and don't owe anyone anything concerning clips - I'll get some up. They won't be like other folks clips; I usually just play and run through some presets. That's me.

This thing excels at simple raw tones - no effects needed to make it sound good. One of my points was that it works live as well as direct. I have not run it direct into a PA or FOH; I have not gigged it yet. We are booking shows for end-August, September unless I get a pickup gig before.

I don't care how clips sound; if you are looking for clips to somehow justify your interest, or simply to dismiss this as hype, well, you are barking up the wrong tree. You have to hear this thing in the flesh. Same as an amp. Clips are clips; real life isn't a clip.

My goal in posting all this was to hip folks to this thing, not sell them for Fractal.

You'll find opinions from all sorts of folks; there's another thread running as I type this from a cat that bought it and returned it because he didn't like it; his opinion is that it's great for the effects mavens out there, but the raw tones weren't amp-like. I added context for where I am coming from as a player and the types of amps and music I play. I've been around here since Day 1 and fairly high profile here; so many already know my deal as a player. That said; I could not disagree more deeply with him; but his opinion is as valid as mine. This isn't the holy grail for everyone; I am just strongly of the opinion right now that it is for me. I've never felt more deeply satisfied with a piece of gear in my life.

I will do clips, but not on demand. I will do them when I have a chance to do them. I don't need to prove my opinion or back it with clips - this isn't the newsgroups of 10 years ago. Peace!

[riffy]

I came home for lunch and did this clip really quickly.
I grabbed the guitar I had lying on the love seat and
switched it to coil split. It only has on bucker so it isn't
an authentic single coil sound. But it is what it is.
I also clipped the lead sound so you are going to hear a
bit of harshness that shouldn't be there. I have a .05 cent
sound card too, but enough of the excuses.

I do agree with Scott, clips don't do this unit justice by
any means. You have to hear it live and play it to hear
and FEEL what it can do. I truly do dig the unit more than
I can say.

http://members.cox.net/rockguitar/Quick%20Lunch%20Clip.MP3

BTW, the only thing done to this clip is a bit of normalizing.

Edit to say, this is completely direct.

[Lution]

Scott,

I know you've been on a personal search for a rig that covers all the vast bases you need covered. I'm very stoked that it looks like you found what you've been searching for and your quest may come to an end.

Take your time, holmes, and bust out some clips when and if you can. :AOK

[Jarrett]

Sounds good man. Did that at lunch?

[MikeyG]

The biggest thing about the Axe-FX won't come across in clips anyway: FEEL. No clank. No icepick. It breathes....


This guy did some great clips. I like CokeFloat the best. Sounds BIG.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=675735

This one's very good. Shows the dynamics.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=547459

This one's very big sounding

http://guitarlogic.org/axefxclips/AxeFX_firstclip-Master.wav

For you heavy gain guys.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=706278

For pristine cleans

http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_browneyed.mp3

light crunch

http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_youmaybe.mp3


But you gotta play it...... Ericb is the guy who got me off my a$$ to buy one. He **NEVER** raves about gear, but he did about the Axe-FX. And I think he was right......

[riffy]

Sounds good man. Did that at lunch?


Yeah, back at work on my PDA now. Posts will have to be short.
I just downloaded the clip to my PDA and listened. It sounds gritchy in the lead sound for me... Oh well, it was a quicky and I did clip it.

[Blueser]

I am not looking for a pissing match, but I have yet to hear a clip of this device that would separate me from my $2K or so that it would cost to own one. Not to say that tweaking it wouldn't bring better results, and if you love it, then rock on, but I will stick to my tubes and pedal rig for now.

That said, if the right modeling solution comes along for "me" I am there in a NY minute! I believe the digital world will catch up at some point to the realism of analog, but I still think it will be a while.

[digital jams]

I'm saying those clips aren't real impressive. You're putting words into my mouth I didn't say.

Now, if you have some clips of one of these units that are better, by all means, post them. I'm all ears.

Sorry, I was going by your " amp sims are not cutting it", perhaps I mis-understood what that meant.

Yes, I have clips of different modeling amps like L6 and Vox that would fool 3/4 of the board but this thread is not the place to start that.

There are threads all over the clips forum that are not what people say they are ;)

[r9player]

ok listened to a slew of clips. On the site the first few aren't all that to my ears but some of the latter ones wow, very very impressive.
I also liked that CokeFloat piece but not too many of the other ones.
All in all I must say that Axe FX has some mighty impressive sounds.
I'll start the waiting game to see if I ever can land one cheap. (you know when version v.5 is out or something)
Not a rack person nor a 'tweaker' so modelers are a challenge to me.

I think maybe Fractal should start producing Power Amps to go with the Axe FX ...

[electronpirate]

Don't turn this thread into a pissing match about clips. I am not a salesman for the Axe-FX and don't owe anyone anything concerning clips - I'll get some up. They won't be like other folks clips; I usually just play and run through some presets. That's me.

I don't care how clips sound; if you are looking for clips to somehow justify your interest, or simply to dismiss this as hype, well, you are barking up the wrong tree. You have to hear this thing in the flesh. Same as an amp. Clips are clips; real life isn't a clip.


Thank you Scott. When you can't HEAR a rig yourself, no 1 meg soundclip is going to give it to you. Most of the clips I've heard sound GOOD, but not great (I would say the same thing about the Line6 clips I've heard). Even the ones on the Fractal Site are not that stellar to me (with the possible exception of the Eric Johnson one!) NOTHING can prepare you for what you hear when you dial in for your rig.

Frankly though, I have not really posted about the Axe-FX because there were so many naysayers on this board that I got sick and tired of hearing "My Peavey Classic still blows that Digital stuff away" based on clips that I gave up. Now that we have a few more people who have the unit, it's good to actually see some folks open to the idea.

Another point on the rig:
It takes a little while to dial in with your particular setup. To get I/O levels right, and dial in YOUR sound. It sounds great out of the box, it sounds 80% better once you get it right with your equipment. I guess I don't see how someone who spends a few days with this and sends it back can even barely touch the surface.

EP

[Scott Peterson]

I am not looking for a pissing match, but I have yet to hear a clip of this device that would separate me from my $2K or so that it would cost to own one. Not to say that tweaking it wouldn't bring better results, and if you love it, then rock on, but I will stick to my tubes and pedal rig for now.

That said, if the right modeling solution comes along for "me" I am there in a NY minute! I believe the digital world will catch up at some point to the realism of analog, but I still think it will be a while.

$1349 plus shipping for a Standard like mine. The price is inflated on the Yahoo Store Cart so folks won't order them without sending an email first. Three month backorder on the Standard; I have no idea about the Ultra.

No clip will ever do this justice, unless you are looking for a recording direct device. You need to play one live to get what the hell me and others are saying. I posted this review in the amp section on purpose; it has nothing to do with effects or recording directly (or mic'ing it up and recording it). It's no longer a question of when 'it' will catch up; that's my point. It's caught up if not surpassed it IMHO. That's my point. I don't expect anyone to just take my word and go; and no clips are going to make my case either, good or bad. The thing needs to be experienced, not just 'heard' in a clip. That's the point.

[MikeyG]

ok listened to a slew of clips. On the site the first few aren't all that to my ears but some of the latter ones wow, very very impressive.
I also liked that CokeFloat piece but not too many of the other ones.
All in all I must say that Axe FX has some mighty impressive sounds.
I'll start the waiting game to see if I ever can land one cheap. (you know when version v.5 is out or something)
Not a rack person nor a 'tweaker' so modelers are a challenge to me.

I think maybe Fractal should start producing Power Amps to go with the Axe FX ...

Alot of time good clips or bad clips are the recorder and/or the operator, not the amp/preamp.

[ericb]

ok listened to a slew of clips. On the site the first few aren't all that to my ears but some of the latter ones wow, very very impressive.
I also liked that CokeFloat piece but not too many of the other ones.
All in all I must say that Axe FX has some mighty impressive sounds.
I'll start the waiting game to see if I ever can land one cheap. (you know when version v.5 is out or something)
Not a rack person nor a 'tweaker' so modelers are a challenge to me.

I think maybe Fractal should start producing Power Amps to go with the Axe FX ...


Didn't you just sell all of your amps for the Chandler amp? And you typically owned amps with very few knobs on them right ? Why would the Axe-fx appeal to you at all? I'm totally serious in that question. I would never ever get the Axe-Fx if I didn't want to program my own presets , and wasn't a total tweaker. I absolutely love it and think it's 1 of the better pieces of gear I've ever owned, but would never recommend them for someone who wants a basic Marshall or basic Fender. You can't tell I'm the anti-salesman right? I LOVE THIS THING, but there are plenty of options out there for everyone , and if you want a simple amp , this isn't it.. You need to buy this, another power amp and speaker cab and foot controller and by then you definitely want to take advantage of what this thing has to offer in tweakability!!!!!

Eric

[digital jams]

The biggest thing about the Axe-FX won't come across in clips anyway: FEEL. No clank. No icepick. It breathes....


This guy did some great clips. I like CokeFloat the best. Sounds BIG.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=675735

This one's very good. Shows the dynamics.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=547459

This one's very big sounding

http://guitarlogic.org/axefxclips/AxeFX_firstclip-Master.wav

For you heavy gain guys.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=706278

For pristine cleans

http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_browneyed.mp3

light crunch

http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_youmaybe.mp3


But you gotta play it...... Ericb is the guy who got me off my a$$ to buy one. He **NEVER** raves about gear, but he did about the Axe-FX. And I think he was right......

You should have posted Cokefloat in the clips page with another amp name listed but then again it has the direct thing working.

IMO clips are only as good as the guy doing them, you get a good power amp or slam it into an amps effects return and see what happens.

[MikeyG]

If you have a fast connection, go here for a good clip (it's clipping at the vidcam mic, but you can still get a good sense of the tone)

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=SPCEW8KV

You want balls, there you go....

[Jarrett]

No reason to get grumpy guys. Everyone just wants to know what's up with thing. The clips on the site are kind of lackluster, but some of the user clips on their forum are really impressive. Enough so that I'm on the list now.

I just need to know what additional equipment I need to have on hand when it arrives. I guess a tube power amp is the best way to go with this thing? And your fave cab/speaker setup?

[LaXu]

I am not looking for a pissing match, but I have yet to hear a clip of this device that would separate me from my $2K or so that it would cost to own one. Not to say that tweaking it wouldn't bring better results, and if you love it, then rock on, but I will stick to my tubes and pedal rig for now.

That said, if the right modeling solution comes along for "me" I am there in a NY minute! I believe the digital world will catch up at some point to the realism of analog, but I still think it will be a while.

What he said. I'm also not too impressed by how the UI looks. Too many menus and buttons, too few knobs for my liking.

[digital jams]

No reason to get grumpy guys. Everyone just wants to know what's up with thing. The clips on the site are kind of lackluster, but some of the user clips on their forum are really impressive. Enough so that I'm on the list now.

I just need to know what additional equipment I need to have on hand when it arrives. I guess a tube power amp is the best way to go with this thing? And your fave cab/speaker setup?

Power amp that runs your favorite output tubes or just use your fav head and run the unit into the FX return. I always have several cabs since I match cabs and speakers to amps.

[ericb]

The biggest thing about the Axe-FX won't come across in clips anyway: FEEL. No clank. No icepick. It breathes....


This guy did some great clips. I like CokeFloat the best. Sounds BIG.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=675735

This one's very good. Shows the dynamics.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=547459

This one's very big sounding

http://guitarlogic.org/axefxclips/AxeFX_firstclip-Master.wav

For you heavy gain guys.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=706278

For pristine cleans

http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_browneyed.mp3

light crunch

http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_youmaybe.mp3


But you gotta play it...... Ericb is the guy who got me off my a$$ to buy one. He **NEVER** raves about gear, but he did about the Axe-FX. And I think he was right......


HEy thanks dude!!! I didn't notice that last part. I'm really glad you like it as much as you do . I meant every word of my ravings and though I'm a realist when it comes to music, meaning I know not 1 piece of gear is FOR EVERYONE, there are millions of guitarists or studio owners that would kill for the AXE-FX.. What an invaluable tool it is, and great amp simulator and fx device. The Ultra has some more stuff that could help in studio production , or jingle/commercial usage,etc but for me the Standard is just fine and has all I need. I haven't even upgraded the Firmware yet , as life's so busy at home, but am looking forward to some free time soon to do that. Cliff is the best ever (THUS FAR) at fixing things, support, and answering people's wishes, and I couldn't even keep up with him as he upgraded firmware!
ANyway, I'm so glad that you and Scott are liking yours so much and yea, it's worthy of some new raving! :) :D:JAM

ERIC

[electronpirate]

I just need to know what additional equipment I need to have on hand when it arrives. I guess a tube power amp is the best way to go with this thing? And your fave cab/speaker setup?

Yup, that's the way to go. From what I've played with, the tube amp is the option that works for me, and some speakers that have a little less color to them (for the flexibility of different amps.)

What I've wanted to try, is use a clean poweramp, into some full range speakers to try it, but I fear I won't get the *punch* that you get from normal guitar speakers.

Yes, and you're right. There are already some strong emotions about this thing. Which probably comes back to the whole tube vs. digital debate. <sigh>

Peace.

EP

[Blueser]

What if any trial period is there on these? Clearly the only way to know for sure is to try one. I am definitely interested in trying one. As I stated before, if I can get great tone from a modeler, I am there!

My career is in the technology field, so there is no phobias there. The only reason why I deal with tube amps, is that they just sound the best to me, and that's what its all about.

[MikeyG]

No reason to get grumpy guys. Everyone just wants to know what's up with thing. The clips on the site are kind of lackluster, but some of the user clips on their forum are really impressive. Enough so that I'm on the list now.

I just need to know what additional equipment I need to have on hand when it arrives. I guess a tube power amp is the best way to go with this thing? And your fave cab/speaker setup?

If you already have an amp with an effects loop, nothing, except maybe a MIDI foot controller.

Were you thinking of using it for recording, or live?

[r9player]

Very very correct. Love the Chandler and it ain't going anywhere for a long time unless someone can deliver me all the goods and more that the C35 has for less money!

BUT ... at church we can only go direct :(
So I am actually getting a GT-8 to try that out. And man it's been a real ordeal for me to have the Chandler and everything sounding so great through it and then come to church and play and well .. first off I can hardly hear what we're playing and if I am in the crowd I'm like oh man is that what is sounds like!?! Terrible!

So many a piece of gear has passed through my hands that easily would've satisfied my personal needs and sounds but utterly failed in our PA at church.

So I am always on the lookout for news on Multi FX and Modelers that match up well going through a PA system.

I'm kinda hoping the GT-8 will do well, because it is a very affordable solution. And if it does well then I probably will force myself to become much more of a tweaker to create presets for the various songs/song types/tempos we cover. (Had a GT-6 and it reacted pretty terrible with our PA so I never bothered to move forward into the tweaking realm, had an older POD and that sounded terrible). In the mean time I did build up a collection of pedals that have worked well most of the time, POG, CMATMODS Signa Comp-Drive, Boss DD-6, Gaspedal CARB, Dunlop Crybaby. But I'd love to shed all that to lug 1 GT-8 or 1 something.

Hope that answers you question.

Didn't you just sell all of your amps for the Chandler amp? And you typically owned amps with very few knobs on them right ? Why would the Axe-fx appeal to you at all? I'm totally serious in that question. I would never ever get the Axe-Fx if I didn't want to program my own presets , and wasn't a total tweaker. I absolutely love it and think it's 1 of the better pieces of gear I've ever owned, but would never recommend them for someone who wants a basic Marshall or basic Fender. You can't tell I'm the anti-salesman right? I LOVE THIS THING, but there are plenty of options out there for everyone , and if you want a simple amp , this isn't it.. You need to buy this, another power amp and speaker cab and foot controller and by then you definitely want to take advantage of what this thing has to offer in tweakability!!!!!

Eric

[ericb]

Very very correct. Love the Chandler and it ain't going anywhere for a long time unless someone can deliver me all the goods and more that the C35 has for less money!

BUT ... at church we can only go direct :(
So I am actually getting a GT-8 to try that out. And man it's been a real ordeal for me to have the Chandler and everything sounding so great through it and then come to church and play and well .. first off I can hardly hear what we're playing and if I am in the crowd I'm like oh man is that what is sounds like!?! Terrible!

So many a piece of gear has passed through my hands that easily would've satisfied my personal needs and sounds but utterly failed in our PA at church.

So I am always on the lookout for news on Multi FX and Modelers that match up well going through a PA system.

I'm kinda hoping the GT-8 will do well, because it is a very affordable solution. And if it does well then I probably will force myself to become much more of a tweaker to create presets for the various songs/song types/tempos we cover. (Had a GT-6 and it reacted pretty terrible with our PA so I never bothered to move forward into the tweaking realm, had an older POD and that sounded terrible). In the mean time I did build up a collection of pedals that have worked well most of the time, POG, CMATMODS Signa Comp-Drive, Boss DD-6, Gaspedal CARB, Dunlop Crybaby. But I'd love to shed all that to lug 1 GT-8 or 1 something.

Hope that answers you question.

SURE DOES!!!! Thanks, and that makes perfect sense. I had falsely assumed because someone might only prefer simple amps that they didn't have applications where they'd seek out something else to fit those needs. I've never liked the 'really really 'simple amps as much , but know other guys who do . Thanks! Eric

[Scott Peterson]

What if any trial period is there on these? Clearly the only way to know for sure is to try one. I am definitely interested in trying one. As I stated before, if I can get great tone from a modeler, I am there!

My career is in the technology field, so there is no phobias there. The only reason why I deal with tube amps, is that they just sound the best to me, and that's what its all about.


It's in my review - 30 days.

[Jarrett]

Primarily live. Right now I have a Boss GT-8 going into a good channel switcher into a 2x12 with Greenbacks which I use to play live and attempt to use as a very flexible rig. Digging through the GT-8 patches and tweaking them gives me most of the bells and whistles I like, but I've always craved something a little more flexible to fit all the different styles of music we do.

Lately I was thinking about an Eganter M4, Randall midi power amp and a nice rack mount multi-effects to get there. But if this thing can do the job of the M4 and FX unit (and then some) then this is the ticket for me.

I'm one of those guys that has been waiting for digital to catch up and I'm not scared of menus, in fact I love the tweakability of them.

[Flux]

Thanks for the review and info fellas, now I'm gassing to try one - and I just sold my Korg ToneWorks MultiFX unit, as I was sick of modeled sounds - haha. Here we go again. Yeah, I gotta wonder too what would sound best Live with the AxeFX. IME modelers are really finicky what you plug 'em into. I'm betting 99% of the clips out there are straight into the sound card... that's all fine and dandy, but it's a whole other world on stage with your ass hangin' out. Maybe a powered monitor? My JTM50 loves pedals but only after the gain stages are tweaked... I guess we'll find out, I don't think this thread is going to die any time soon... :)

[ericb]

Thanks for the review and info fellas, now I'm gassing to try one - and I just sold my Korg ToneWorks MultiFX unit, as I was sick of modeled sounds - haha. Here we go again. Yeah, I gotta wonder too what would sound best Live with the AxeFX. IME modelers are really finicky what you plug 'em into. I'm betting 99% of the clips out there are straight into the sound card... that's all fine and dandy, but it's a whole other world on stage with your ass hangin' out. Maybe a powered monitor? My JTM50 loves pedals but only after the gain stages are tweaked... I guess we'll find out, I don't think this thread is going to die any time soon... :)


The Axe-Fx isn't 'finicky' about what you plug into it. It works great for HB's (hi or lo gain HB's) or Sc's. Also if you're using the front end of it and have favorite pedals, the pedals work as good or better with the Axe-FX as they do with my 'real' amps..

Only way for people to see though is really try these things, and the waiting list is so long ,it's going to be hard to try them as long as Cliff keeps making them in Ma/Nh. It's a long wait to just 'try ' something ,and personally I think there's lots of other great gear out there and I'm not a waiting person.. I signed up really early for mine and glad I got it in a few weeks, but if I had to really wait for something 3-4-6 months and it was going to be my #1 piece of gear I could never do that. Scott and lots of other guys did really well at that though , as they gradually sold off other gear, but if I was really hesitant on getting something like this, and needed to wait so long to try it, I'd just move on to something else!! I think 95% of the guys who've ordered the Axe-FX and who'll continue to order it , pretty much know what to expect. Anyway, it's not a finicky piece of gear and the insane amount of tweakability is a huge PRO for some of us, and a 'con' for some others who wouldn't want to be involved with tweaking. To me , Cliff really gives you lots of tools with the Axe-FX but doesn't do it all for us. He basically gives you a computer system to start playing with to come up with your own tones and it works great for me.

[Flux]

The Axe-Fx isn't 'finicky' about what you plug into it. It works great for HB's (hi or lo gain HB's) or Sc's. Also if you're using the front end of it and have favorite pedals, the pedals work as good or better with the Axe-FX as they do with my 'real' amps..

Only way for people to see though is really try these things, and the waiting list is so long ,it's going to be hard to try them as long as Cliff keeps making them in Ma/Nh. It's a long wait to just 'try ' something ,and personally I think there's lots of other great gear out there and I'm not a waiting person.. I signed up really early for mine and glad I got it in a few weeks, but if I had to really wait for something 3-4-6 months and it was going to be my #1 piece of gear I could never do that. Scott and lots of other guys did really well at that though , as they gradually sold off other gear, but if I was really hesitant on getting something like this, and needed to wait so long to try it, I'd just move on to something else!! I think 95% of the guys who've ordered the Axe-FX and who'll continue to order it , pretty much know what to expect. Anyway, it's not a finicky piece of gear and the insane amount of tweakability is a huge PRO for some of us, and a 'con' for some others who wouldn't want to be involved with tweaking. To me , Cliff really gives you lots of tools with the Axe-FX but doesn't do it all for us. He basically gives you a computer system to start playing with to come up with your own tones and it works great for me.

No, I meant what amp you plug them into. They (modelers in general) have a tendancy to sound real 'thin' through a lot of amps, to my ears anyway - especially when the rest of the band kicks in. Not saying this is the case with the AxeFX, I'll have to wait on that verdict. As far as the tweaking thing... it can be a real Time Drain, and even a waste of time. Still, gotta love it when you find 'that' sound - just don't forget to press 'save', heheh.

[TNJ]

Wish I was a tweaker.
I'm not.
That's been one of my (many) complaints with multifx pedals, and digital modelling amps. Too many menu's...too many ways to screw up your tone.
For us plug and play morons, this thing sounds like another chapter from the same (cyber) book.
Not saying it isnt special...I know Scott, and he's VERY particular about his tones...always has been. BUT, he's also the ultimate tweaker. The proof is in the pudding, and Scott's recordings have always been top notch in my book. He's got great ears, and the patience/curiosity of an engineer with the tech side of our pursuit.
Now I could definitely see this unit becoming a staple in MANY recording studios. Along with a guru to program it to the player's/producer's taste. I see BIG $$$$$ here for Mr. Fractal, if all pans out (and I see no reason why it shouldnt). Think of what the POD did when it first came out. Talk about a financial landslide!

Back to moi...
(anybody wanna jump onboard the AXE-FX train with an EL34/reverb Shiva head to leverage...let me know)
Sorry to barge in...I'm here representin' for the great unwashed.

:D

Carry on,

S.
j

[KLB]

Can the Axe-Fx do ducking/dynamic delay and reverb?

I did not notice this capability in the descriptions for any of the reverb or delay effect types. Perhaps you can use an ADSR envelope to control mix level and achieve the same thing?

I could not find a summary on the website listing the specific additional effects and other features that the Ultra model has.

Do you still get a $400 discount "coupon" when you actually place an order?

Given the high costs and overhead associated with US production, the Axe-FX appears to be a good value. I like his decision to choose local production over outsourcing to the cheapest overseas producer.

The interface, lacking many direct knobs, does not allow for much spontaneity -- but this is common with most rack units.

Without an expensive and sophisticated MIDI controller, you can't select individual effects on the fly within a given preset, such as turning the Drive on/off.

It would be useful to have a direct computer interface to program and control the unit in the studio. Perhaps a version with USB port is in the future?

*********

Cliff Chase adopts and cares for abandoned cats. He gets a couple of extra brownie points for this!

[ericb]

Can the Axe-Fx do ducking/dynamic delay and reverb?

I did not notice this capability in the descriptions for any of the reverb or delay effect types. Perhaps you can use an ADSR envelope to control mix level and achieve the same thing?

I could not find a summary on the website listing the specific additional effects and other features that the Ultra model has.

Do you still get a $400 discount "coupon" when you actually place an order?

Given the high costs and overhead associated with US production, the Axe-FX appears to be a good value. I like his decision to choose local production over outsourcing to the cheapest overseas producer.

The interface, lacking many direct knobs, does not allow for much spontaneity -- but this is common with most rack units.

Without an expensive and sophisticated MIDI controller, you can't select individual effects on the fly within a given preset, such as turning the Drive on/off.

It would be useful to have a direct computer interface to program and control the unit in the studio. Perhaps a version with USB port is in the future?

*********

Cliff Chase adopts and cares for abandoned cats. He gets a couple of extra brownie points for this!

Yes it's got all of those features Ken. Also Lars (from Europe) already has the computer editor out in beta form.

Eric

[electronpirate]

Can the Axe-Fx do ducking/dynamic delay and reverb?

I did not notice this capability in the descriptions for any of the reverb or delay effect types. Perhaps you can use an ADSR envelope to control mix level and achieve the same thing?

I could not find a summary on the website listing the specific additional effects and other features that the Ultra model has.

Do you still get a $400 discount "coupon" when you actually place an order?

Given the high costs and overhead associated with US production, the Axe-FX appears to be a good value. I like his decision to choose local production over outsourcing to the cheapest overseas producer.

The interface, lacking many direct knobs, does not allow for much spontaneity -- but this is common with most rack units.

Without an expensive and sophisticated MIDI controller, you can't select individual effects on the fly within a given preset, such as turning the Drive on/off.

It would be useful to have a direct computer interface to program and control the unit in the studio. Perhaps a version with USB port is in the future?


One by one:
Delay:
Yes, check the wiki at:
http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index.php?title=Axe-Fx_Wiki_Manual for other FX and more explaination on the Ultra.

$400 discount is in place now when you get a confirmation to buy, but may not be in the future, as demand may flat out force him to raise prices.

The interface looks unwieldy, and it would be tough 'on the fly' (or in the middle of a song for instance), but the layout is suprisingly easy to figure out, and it took me less than an hour to get to everything without referring to the manual.

Yes, you need an external MIDI controller for changing presets, a more advanced one for toggling FX. My MIDI Mate does all of that, and it's not that expensive ($160 new). There is a Fractal footcontroller in the works, but that is months away.

There is an PC editor that is in beta stage. You can download it and check it out in it's present form at the Axe-FX board. Realtime editing and routing. Nice!

EP

[shallbe]

I'm glad you guys are happy with the unit. It obviously is satisfying a need per the reviews and demand. Like Jato, I'm not a tweaker.

And I guess I'm not a tone/feel searcher anymore. I'm so satisfied with my tube amp and analog effects (my board hasn't changed in 3 years) that all I'm interested in is NOS tubes to keep it going.

For those of us that have found "the sound" that has been bouncing around in our head ---already---with older technology, I guess we are not prospects.

If you have found it with this new piece of gear, that is great! I do think the search ends, or at least it should. Good music happens easier when it does.

[bosstone]

That thing sounds terrible. Ah, err, would anyone be interested in buying all my stuff, er...something has come up and...err and I have to put some money together for something...Yah, thats it. About $1,395.00 ought to take care of it.

[Red Planet]

I want to see the rig Scott has in 6 months or a year.

I have seen the "this is it" thread to many times, only to see another one later.

I'm pretty happy smokin the Tubes right now.

This thing does sound interesting though probably way more complicated than I like.

[Scott Peterson]

I want to see the rig Scott has in 6 months or a year.

I have seen the "this is it" thread to many times, only to see another one later.

I'm pretty happy smokin the Tubes right now.

This thing does sound interesting though probably way more complicated than I like.

You're smokin' too many tubes, my tube smokin friend. Don't misunderstand what I am saying here - 'this is it' is there is finally something that truly equals or betters what it is 'emulating'. As for ultimatums in gear, that's stupid and I don't play that game. I may at some point buy other gear.

[Red Planet]

:jo

[GAT]

I clicked the Buy It Now button on the website, and it show both models are in stock...I thought there was a long waiting list?

I guess if you order it for the inflated price they will put you on the list for the reduced price? Are they charging the credit card right away, or only when they send the unit?

[Scott Peterson]

I clicked the Buy It Now button on the website, and it show both models are in stock...I thought there was a long waiting list?

I guess if you order it for the inflated price they will put you on the list for the reduced price? Are they charging the credit card right away, or only when they send the unit?

No.

It is just the way the store module is set up with Yahoo. They won't charge you for it; you have to get in line like everybody else. The prices there are not 'real' prices.

Keep in mind, Fractal Audio is at this point a mom & pop type of company; there is not some huge corporate machine behind this. He is using the Yahoo store module and it is set up the way it is because it seems to them that no one would actually try to buy it at that price.

[GAT]

Thanks Scott, time to get on the list.

[silencer eleven]

I'm jumping on the list also, just fired him an e-mail.

[LSchefman]

I love tube amps and will continue to be a tube amp kinda guy. I'm currently playing an absolutely fantastic sounding tube amp (a Rockie) and when I can afford to, I'll likely add another TR to my studio.

I've been playing tube amps since 1965. I've never considered anything else.

And, I probably won't get an Axe-FX, 'cause I'm very happy with my gear, and I can live with only one or two amps quite nicely. I have no need for a bunch of different sounds.

My main complaint about modelers has always been that next to real amps in a mix, they don't sit right. They sound different from tube amps. I haven't been able to describe it, but "different" has always summed it up for me.

Now, I didn't play this thing, but I did place three audio tracks done with an Axe-FX in a project with a real tube amp and a real bass amp. I expected the usual "doesn't sit in the track" problems. But I was surprised.

Scott did those jingle tracks he talked about in his review for my project. He quoted my email in his review. The thing does sit nicely in a mix, and, based on what Scott did for me, I would have guessed all three tracks were done with a real tube amp.

I did go back and forth between "real" and "Axe-FX", and the recording sounded quite real to my ears.

Let's put this in perspective:

It was a recording, I didn't use or hear it live, nor did I play through it and evaluate "feel". I can't comment on that, but I think Scott's got a good sense of what a tube amp does feel like. But recordings sound different from live in the room.

Also, in evaluating a device like this, you have to remember that a model reflects the tastes of the programmer, just like a real amp reflects the tastes of the builder. Everyone's taste is different. My idea of a great Marshall sound may be way different from yours, etc., etc.

[MikeyG]

I want to see the rig Scott has in 6 months or a year.

I have seen the "this is it" thread to many times, only to see another one later.

I'm pretty happy smokin the Tubes right now.

This thing does sound interesting though probably way more complicated than I like.

I guess you've never sold any gear??

Makes you grumpy, being on that Red Planet all alone, doesn't it?

[LaXu]

Wish I was a tweaker.
I'm not.
That's been one of my (many) complaints with multifx pedals, and digital modelling amps. Too many menu's...too many ways to screw up your tone.
For us plug and play morons, this thing sounds like another chapter from the same (cyber) book.

I hear ya. I used to have a Boss GT-6 and that thing had so much menucrawling and settings it made me hate the user interfaces on most multifx or modeler units. To date the best interfaces I've seen have been on the Yamaha DG, Hughes&Kettner Zentera and Vox Valvetronix. Essentially a couple of buttons and a whole bunch of knobs for adjusting everything. IMO this is the direction that the Axe-FX v2 (if there ever is one) should take.

Could someone do a little video of programming a basic patch on the Axe-FX and put it on YouTube? I think it'd be interesting to see how it goes and how long it takes.

[mranonimouse]

I quite enjoy some of the sounds in this clip:

http://www.g66.eu/images/stories/audio/Afx_medley2.mp3


and this one:


http://www.g66.eu/images/stories/audio/afx_medley3

[Scott Peterson]

Could someone do a little video of programming a basic patch on the Axe-FX and put it on YouTube? I think it'd be interesting to see how it goes and how long it takes.

Someone already did. Search "axe-fx" on you tube.

[daddyo]

I quite enjoy some of the sounds in this clip:

http://www.g66.eu/images/stories/audio/Afx_medley2.mp3


and this one:


http://www.g66.eu/images/stories/audio/afx_medley3

That is pretty good sound from one processor. I suppose the key for live is the power amp/cab? A tube power amp a trad cab. You wouldn't run this into a JBL Aeon for instance, would you?

[Scott Peterson]

That is pretty good sound from one processor. I suppose the key for live is the power amp/cab? A tube power amp a trad cab. You wouldn't run this into a JBL Aeon for instance, would you?

Well, yes you can. And direct.

Here's the catch. A guy on the Axe-FX forum called Spikey81 wrote this; he said it better than I ever could: This is a pretty common thing when people go to direct rigs i've noticed. I've gone through Triaxis to either an ADA ampulator, or a Mesa 2:90/Palmer PGA-04 speaker sim, and while they both sounded very good, It's never going to feel exactly the same as the power amp/cab combo in the room feeling that you are typically used to feeling. (I also have owned a 2x12 and 4x12 recto cab with the mesa 2:90 and 395).

That being said, every great live concert (or at least most) and every great CD guitar tone you've ever heard has been this mic'd up sound that you are hearing through your direct setup, in fact most of us haven't ever heard the in front of the amp sound of our hero's guitar rig.

It the end we will all have to, like many of the other forumers, to decide whether hearing what the crowd hears, or hearing what you are accustomed to hearing is what you want. Many AXE'ers have opted to go with a poweramp/guitar cab setup to retain this kick you in the butt feeling.

I am an old-school guy, and want to hear/feel an amp behind me. So I opt -live- for a tube power amp and guitar speaker cabinet. You don't have to, but I do. At the same time, I now also have the flexibility to run direct if I need to.

[enharmonic]

This thing sounds GOOD! Way better than my GR2. I wouldn't be ashamed to play one if it were dialed into "me". That could take some serious tweaking, but I bet I could get there.

Thanks for the GAS, Scott :D

[KLB]

Yes it's got all of those features Ken. Also Lars (from Europe) already has the computer editor out in beta form.

Eric

OK, I found the Ducking parameters in the Mod section. Good.

Now, can someone please direct me to a chart or list of the differences between the Standard and Ultra models?

How does the computer editor interface with the unit (what connection)?

[ericb]

OK, I found the Ducking parameters in the Mod section. Good.

Now, can someone please direct me to a chart or list of the differences between the Standard and Ultra models?

How does the computer editor interface with the unit (what connection)?
'
The AxeFx Wiki site is at : http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

more specifically http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index.php?title=Feature_comparison for the chart

The links to the Editor download etc are there too ( http://axechange.net/editorbeta.aspx (http://axechange.net/editorbeta.aspx) ) you can download it and play with it without an Axe-FX I believe.

I'm too busy this time of the year to take advantage of the whole Wiki's info , and learning an editor etc, but hopefully in the winter will have more available time. Have fun, Eric

[localmotion411]

OK, I found the Ducking parameters in the Mod section. Good.

Now, can someone please direct me to a chart or list of the differences between the Standard and Ultra models?

How does the computer editor interface with the unit (what connection)?

KLB, the only thing I could find stating the differences b/w the Standard and Ultra (besides the forums) was just reading the manual for the Ultra, which is downloadable from the website. It states in there that the Ultra has upgraded memory, processing power/speed, and more effects.

Scott, I would imagine that with the ability to run balanced XLR stereo outs to the mixing console AND run a mic'ed power amp and cab setup onstage, you could create one hell of a live sound with this thing. That way, you've got the mic'ed cab feeling onstage (which I would want because I'm most familiar with it), but through the PA everything is in stereo. Geez...

Even if I get mine and never use it onstage, it will no doubt be the most fun and useful piece of equipment I've ever had.

[ericb]

[quote=localmotion411;2706641]KLB, the only thing I could find stating the differences b/w the Standard and Ultra (besides the forums) was just reading the manual for the Ultra, which is downloadable from the website. It states in there that the Ultra has upgraded memory, processing power/speed, and more effects.
quote]

I just posted the link to the chart that tells you the exact differences above. Here it is again:
http://axefxwiki.guitarlogic.org/index.php?title=Feature_comparison
Have fun

Eric

[riffy]

KLB, the only thing I could find stating the differences b/w the Standard and Ultra (besides the forums) was just reading the manual for the Ultra, which is downloadable from the website. It states in there that the Ultra has upgraded memory, processing power/speed, and more effects.

Scott, I would imagine that with the ability to run balanced XLR stereo outs to the mixing console AND run a mic'ed power amp and cab setup onstage, you could create one hell of a live sound with this thing. That way, you've got the mic'ed cab feeling onstage (which I would want because I'm most familiar with it), but through the PA everything is in stereo. Geez...

Even if I get mine and never use it onstage, it will no doubt be the most fun and useful piece of equipment I've ever had.

This is the way I run mine quite a bit. I run it mono onstage into a Marshall JMP power section into a 4x12 with greenbacks. I can get enough volume to suit me for a monitor. I run it direct to the PA in stereo. It is a massive sound and it is so controllable. In places where there really isn't enough room for me to set up everything the way I like, I will run direct to the PA in stereo and have one small monitor set up in front of me with only my guitar sound in it... The sound men love me. Great tone to boot!

Gary

[hasserl]

I quite enjoy some of the sounds in this clip:

http://www.g66.eu/images/stories/audio/Afx_medley2.mp3


and this one:


http://www.g66.eu/images/stories/audio/afx_medley3

Well, I've got to admit, those clips sound very good. Much better than the clips on the Axe site. Very impressive.

[solo-act]

I'd love to hear clips from Scott. ...The audio clips on the site, at the time I checked, were pretty washed over with effects so i couldn't really hear it's pure tone...Robbie

Haven't finished reading thread, but saw a need for clips. No intent to hijack, but till I get a review up, and till Scott gets his clips up, here's some stuff I slapped together. It's all Axe-Fx direct into a Digi 002 and into protools LE via the digital coaxial out of the Axe-FX. I have some mono backing tracks as a mix reference.
If anything, the clips are lacking in amount of effects in several places....since I'm gigging live, I tend to run more dry than if I was recording. I go direct to PA live.

Disclaimer:
The clips are merely reference clips to check the tone within a mix before gigging out live, so no flawless playing....ha ha, and definitely no production. No mixing/balancing volume on the axe-fx, no plugins, no dynamics processing etc etc. Just naked into the computer complete with any lack of finesse translated perfectly...(ha ha again) by the the dynamics that the modeller naysayers say this unit doesn't have -- been a modeller naysayer myself since day one.

All clips are with same guitar: Tyler Landau bought off a TGP member, SSH with lindy fralin blues specials and duncan TB4 humbucker. Volume pot on around 8-9 and turn knob to 10 for solo. Remember these are reference clips prepping for live performance.....NOT critical high end studio/making a CD type recordings.

Brown eyed girl (http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_browneyed.mp3) Neck pickup

Billy Joel (http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_youmaybe.mp3) position 4 humbucker split & middle PU

David Bowie (http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/bowie_breakdown.mp3) Humbucker: This is a parallel rig: 2 amps, one with parametric and compressor, they share a wah on solo, the cabinet "block" is stereo so I ran a 4x12 left, and a 2x12 right, they share reverb and delay.
Clip starts left side rig Marshall no FX, then with FX, then right side rig with axe-fx para & comp, then both together, then both with backing tracks.

Earlier Bowie clip (http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/Suffragette.mp3) Done before the tweaks made to get the clip above (parallel rig is mostly mono/less low oomph), but has the solo with Axe-FX wah and delay in there.

Loggins/Messina (http://www.ericlane.com/temp/audio/clip_mammadont.mp3) Humbucker

*edit* forgot to mention these are rigs I built from scratch the first 10 days of having the unit. So these are just the beginning....the first baby steps of what can be built. I'm way better now at pulling a rig together and making it sound big and alive in the mix -- just did more refinements yesterday. Its amazing how as time goes the patches just get better and better and better and better as you learn more about how everything sounds and interacts.

For me this thing is like going to graduate school at Tone Dialing University. Geeze....I've spent a month at the University Library just wandering around in the amps/cabs section. :AOK

[bosstone]

Most of the clips that I have heard sound very, very good to me. I guess it is inevitable that a clip will always sound like a clip and not like being there in front of the speakers. If what comes out of your amp's speakers is going to have that clip/processed sound, it would take some getting used to. I don't know if it would be a bad thing. It could conceivable be even better but it would be different and take some getting used to.

[beforetone]

Can someone educate me on the seamless patch changes, and is this feature available in the Axe-Fx? I have a Digitech Gsp 2101 Artist 3.00.00a that needs a second disc added to get no gap between program changes. Sorry for the semi-hijack of the thread! Thanks for a reply.

[solo-act]

Can someone educate me on the seamless patch changes, and is this feature available in the Axe-Fx? I have a Digitech Gsp 2101 Artist 3.00.00a that needs a second disc added to get no gap between program changes. Sorry for the semi-hijack of the thread! Thanks for a reply. Hope Scott doesn't mind me hopping in to help answer stuff.
For the solos in the clips I did, I didn't change patches. I simply took a drive & parametric eq in Billy Joel out of bypass state, and did the same for wah & delay in the Bowie solo. Thats done via a global bypass feature. Simply create your patch, bypass/mute the "pedals" you'll use for the solo & save your patch. Hit the I/O button, page to the "ctrl" page, scroll down the list to "global bypass" and turn the knob to select a continuous controller #. Then during the song, send the same continuous controller # that you set on the axe fx from a midi footwitch to toggle them on for solo, & off/bypassed after.

Long story short, its as simple as punch in the patch # for the song, and hit one button to go onto solo and again to go off.

You can also toggle ALL 36 blocks into on/bypassed state individually (2 amps, 2 cabs, 2 reverbs, 2 para eq's, 2 graphic eq's etc etc). The Ultra unit has EVEN MORE blocks....ha ha. Since I play with backing tracks, I can automate any block I want. It would be cool to see a choice to put blocks into groups and bypass groups individually. Right now, all my solos and patch changes are completely automated. All I do is work the crowd as I play and sing.

For patch changing, if you want to keep a delay, reverb, or other time based effect "spilling over" into the next patch, just make sure the patch you're going to has those effects in a bypassed state. The effect will spill over, play out, and any notes you hit after you've gone to the new patch will not engage those effects.

I change acoustic patches when singing just voice and acoustic. Its pretty naked for hearing a patch change. I haven't even set them up to spill over and the patch change is so incredibly fast, if I do a patch change while I'm singing I hardly notice it.

[Scott Peterson]

Eric (and everyone) if you have an answer... have at! I am no expert on this thing yet; just scratching the very surface of it. I have a tremendous amount to learn yet myself, trust me!

[electronpirate]

Can someone educate me on the seamless patch changes, and is this feature available in the Axe-Fx? I have a Digitech Gsp 2101 Artist 3.00.00a that needs a second disc added to get no gap between program changes. Sorry for the semi-hijack of the thread! Thanks for a reply.

From the Axe-FX site:

(The patch change delay is now) "down to 25 ms with Delay Spill off, and 10 ms with Delay Spill on"

I think someone made the analogy that 25ms is the time sound gets out from the speakers to 1 foot in front of the cab. Basically non-existant.

Incidentally, this was a problem in earlier Firmware's. It was pointed out on the site, Cliff found a problem in there, and fixed it within 4 hours. THAT rocks.

EP

[Jarrett]

Solo, thanks a bunch for those clips. I have that same guitar with same pickups, so its a great reference for me. This is one of the odd occasions where the user clips far outshine the manufacturers clips on their site, which is a good thing in my eyes.

[Red Planet]

I guess you've never sold any gear??

Makes you grumpy, being on that Red Planet all alone, doesn't it?

I've sold a lot of gear in 33 years of playing. I am not above it at all. Not really lonely either. On vacation with my family. Wifey went to the store laying around looking at TGP from my Blackberry.

I've just seen this before. Scott comes on wiht a gushing review of a rig, a bunch of folks jump on the wagon, and 6 months later I happen to see all that is gone and replaced by something totally different. Its not a bad thing just my observation. There is absolutly nothing wrong with changing rigs every 6 months.

I said the thing looks nice and interesting maby a little on the complicated side.

Scott comes back with I must be smoking something and he doesnt play that game. He plays it as much as anyone I've ever seen on here. He would like me to think he is above suffereing from the Human Condition.

This is not an attack some folks take this stuff way to seriously. There may be a time in the future when a can of beans is worth more than a Dumble and this would all seem silly.

It does look like a very nice piece of Gear. :AOK

Part of the pleasure is indeed the Journey. ;)

Please take what I say as an opposing view in jest just me poking fun. Not a blood thirsty attack or something.

[electronpirate]

It does look like a very nice piece of Gear. :AOK

Part of the pleasure is indeed the Journey. ;)

Please take what I say as an opposing view in jest just me poking fun. Not a blood thirsty attack or something.

Most reasonable I've ever heard you RP! Good post!

Happy vacation, GET OFFLINE and have fun!

EP

[Scott Peterson]

I've sold a lot of gear in 33 years of playing. I am not above it at all. Not really lonely either. On vacation with my family. Wifey went to the store laying around looking at TGP from my Blackberry.

I've just seen this before. Scott comes on wiht a gushing review of a rig, a bunch of folks jump on the wagon, and 6 months later I happen to see all that is gone and replaced by something totally different. Its not a bad thing just my observation. There is absolutly nothing wrong with changing rigs every 6 months.

I said the thing looks nice and interesting maby a little on the complicated side.

Scott comes back with I must be smoking something and he doesnt play that game. He plays it as much as anyone I've ever seen on here. He would like me to think he is above suffereing from the Human Condition.

This is not an attack some folks take this stuff way to seriously. There may be a time in the future when a can of beans is worth more than a Dumble and this would all seem silly.

It does look like a very nice piece of Gear. :AOK

Part of the pleasure is indeed the Journey. ;)

Please take what I say as an opposing view in jest just me poking fun. Not a blood thirsty attack or something.

I didn't say you were smoking something, I paraphrased your "tube-smoking" comment. The one you made, not me. You've been around a long time and had enough back and forth with folks; and enough dialog with me personally that you know who and what I am about. Pissing wars is not one of my things.

I don't 'gush' as much as discuss. As I noted in my first post (and any other time I've gone to any length to discuss a rig) I don't care if anyone agrees with me; that's not my intention. I do think it is important to hip folks to things they might not have considered; it all matters to where you are in the journey. If you are happy with where you are at, then who cares what I think? It doesn't make sense to, even in a round about way, throw a jab out like I am simply raising hype to get folks to jump a bandwagon. That's not my MO and you should know that about me after all these years. I am on a journey with gear like anyone else here and I have never ever put myself above the fray in any way. It's weird to even read that; and you - knowing me as you should - saying that is a bit cheap IMHO. I didn't imply that, nor intend that in any way. I am looking for something; and instead of finding a piece of it, I am relating that I might have found a cornerstone instead. That's where I am coming from.

Now enjoy your vacation, enjoy your gear and don't give this another thought.

[Red Planet]

No problems hear dude. I'm am definately having a good vacation. Thanx.

[Jarrett]

There is going to be a lot of chest thumping going on if/when digital catches and potentially surpasses tubes. If this is it, then expect more from the die hard tube folks.

[LaXu]

Someone already did. Search "axe-fx" on you tube.

I see. Looks like the kind of stuff my "gear tweaking nightmares" are made of to be honest. I'd still like to try the unit but it would have to sound amazing for me to bother dealing with the user interface. I even tried the PC editor but it does seem easier to work with. Does it allow realtime changes or is it "change setting -> export patch" type thing?

solo-act: Your clips do sound very nice! Something in them does make me feel that it's a digital sound I'm hearing but it could be just the direct thing and I'm not sure if I'd care enough for it to matter in reality.

Any chance of doing something with a more hard rock or old school metal sound? Think Motörhead, Sabbath or Maiden...maybe even AC/DC?

[jazzguitarplay]

id never buy a first generation do it all in one box type deal, i dont care how good it sounds, i gurantee, next year it will come down in price and have many software updates, lol. Soon, im buying a sweet taylor and going acoustic

[Flux]

OTOH a tube smoking patch might be kinda cool...:cool:

[solo-act]

id never buy a first generation do it all in one box type deal, i dont care how good it sounds, i gurantee, next year it will come down in price and have many software updates, lol. Soon, im buying a sweet taylor and going acoustic I guess I threw caution to the wind....ha ha. I play a Collings D2H & do about 80 songs just acoustic, but also do about 50 songs with backing tracks on electric. The Axe-FX has transformed the show and been a huge upgrade so I guess it was worth the risk. Plus I just download the new firmware every couple weeks. Gonna do that right now actually. Income earned from it way outstrips any loss in value.......which I'm not certain will happen in the next year since waiting lists will be reaching into next year very soon. Between pent up demand and the fact there's very little profit margin on the unit, I'm not sure how price COULD drop a lot unless someone is just dumping one off used.......might see a drop on the used side with the standard unit, hard to say though.

[GuitarGuy510]

I'm officially on the list for an Axe-FX Ultra as of last night. A couple people I know have been telling me how great it was and I'm not a "it HAS to be tubes!" kind of guy so this might work out for me. Those Axe-FX Medley clips blew me away, and my friend did some metal clips that were positively kickass.... Mark IV-sounding leads from a rackmount preamp plus effects? Yes please. :o

[AndrewSimon]

Sounds interesting.
I will have to look into this.

:dude

[MikeyG]

I'm officially on the list for an Axe-FX Ultra as of last night. A couple people I know have been telling me how great it was and I'm not a "it HAS to be tubes!" kind of guy so this might work out for me. Those Axe-FX Medley clips blew me away, and my friend did some metal clips that were positively kickass.... Mark IV-sounding leads from a rackmount preamp plus effects? Yes please. :o

The Mark IV and Triaxis stuff actually seems to improve on the tone of the originals, to my ears. From early Nightranger tones to Petrucci stuff, all of it.

[Jarrett]

The couple of things I keep thinking about with this thing is power amp and live tweaking.

For the power amp, I just need a 40-50 watt mono 6L6 block. That's pretty easy to get from an amp, but kinda hard to find in a power amp. I know I can get 100 watt amps and just run one side, but that seems like a waste. And who needs the extra weight.

The other is live tweakability. I'm that guy that gets on stage and has to tweak knobs. Strum a chord, too much mids, reach back and dial it down in a split second. Switch to mid gain OD, too much high end, reach back and dial it down in a split second. Switch to high gain, too hot, reach back and dial the master down a hair.

I like the ability to do that live. I'm sure the sound men hate it, but it's just part of a live performance for me. It seems like you loose that with the Fractal Axe Fx. Do you not?

[Scott Peterson]

The other is live tweakability. I'm that guy that gets on stage and has to tweak knobs. Strum a chord, too much mids, reach back and dial it down in a split second. Switch to mid gain OD, too much high end, reach back and dial it down in a split second. Switch to high gain, too hot, reach back and dial the master down a hair.

I like the ability to do that live. I'm sure the sound men hate it, but it's just part of a live performance for me. It seems like you loose that with the Fractal Axe Fx. Do you not?

You do not lose a thing.

It has a "Global" button. One click and you have global control (over EVERY preset) of low/mid/high and reverb and effect levels.

So if you hit a room and it's too bright; one knob turns down every treble setting no matter how many presets.

Don't forget; this thing was designed and built by a gigging guitarist. :D

[geetarman]

You do not lose a thing.

It has a "Global" button. One click and you have global control (over EVERY preset) of low/mid/high and reverb and effect levels.

So if you hit a room and it's too bright; one knob turns down every treble setting no matter how many presets.

Don't forget; this thing was designed and built by a gigging guitarist. :D

That's some good thinking I better get on the list....oh wait I already am.;)

[riffy]

Speaking from gig experience with the Axe-FX, that global control is the bomb and has saved me from editing many times now!

Guys, this preamp is REALLY well thought out and put together in a
booteek:) fashion. You will be HARD PRESSED to find CUSTOMER CARE
this good anywhere. Cliff uploads the updates as fast as he gets them
out. He listens to what users want in the unit and does it and puts
them out in updates.

I know, that it is hard to stop using tube amps. You don't have to though,
this preamp just gives you and me so many more options for tone and sound shaping. Plus, it is an easy carry!!!!!!!

[Occam]

I'm usually not one for modelers but for those that haven't tried...a digital modeler through a tube power amp makes a huge difference. I was really surprised at how good my cheap ass johnson j-station sounded through my mesa 20/20. I'm really thinking about getting one of these but this plus a power amp (I've long since sold the 20/20) would be pretty pricey. What are some of your favorite higher powered amps with this?

[jazzguitarplay]

I read on e-bay some guy was selling his Lovepedal eternity cause he has that sound in his Fractul axe fx, is this true?.

[LaXu]

I'm usually not one for modelers but for those that haven't tried...a digital modeler through a tube power amp makes a huge difference. I was really surprised at how good my cheap ass johnson j-station sounded through my mesa 20/20. I'm really thinking about getting one of these but this plus a power amp (I've long since sold the 20/20) would be pretty pricey. What are some of your favorite higher powered amps with this?

I, on the other hand was disappointed with the sound when I plugged the preamp section of my Yamaha DG combo into my Diezel Einstein combo's poweramp. I felt the Yamaha DG's own 80/100W solid-state poweramp was a much better match. And vice versa the Diezel sounded so much better through its own poweramp.

[ericb]

The couple of things I keep thinking about with this thing is power amp and live tweaking.

For the power amp, I just need a 40-50 watt mono 6L6 block. That's pretty easy to get from an amp, but kinda hard to find in a power amp. I know I can get 100 watt amps and just run one side, but that seems like a waste. And who needs the extra weight.

The other is live tweakability. I'm that guy that gets on stage and has to tweak knobs. Strum a chord, too much mids, reach back and dial it down in a split second. Switch to mid gain OD, too much high end, reach back and dial it down in a split second. Switch to high gain, too hot, reach back and dial the master down a hair.

I like the ability to do that live. I'm sure the sound men hate it, but it's just part of a live performance for me. It seems like you loose that with the Fractal Axe Fx. Do you not?


I'm that guy too , and that's why I haven't used my Axe-FX at my gigs at this point. I use my Tremoverb and Pedalboard. If I ever turn in to the guy who can program everything at home and NOT tweak at gigs, I'll switch over . Yes, the Global functions are great, and yes it's easy enough to tweak, but it's not knobs. If I only used a few different amp models and patches that I've programmed on this for gigs, I could do it for sure, but there's so much good stuff on there, I like TOO MUCH of it. Stupid , but it's been the case for the past 6months to year that I've owned (I can't remember how long it's been but I was 1 of the first 20-30 owners. For someone who can program it all ahead of time , it's awesome. For someone who just needs to tweak a bit at a gig, it's awesome.. For someone who needs the 'security blanket' of simple knobs, it won't do the trick.. . I'm in between those ,and am still using my amp(s) thus far, BUT almost everyone else I know who bought this , switched over :) Eric

[MikeyG]

The global EQ really should be separate external knobs, like on the Vetta, IMO.

[ericb]

I read on e-bay some guy was selling his Lovepedal eternity cause he has that sound in his Fractul axe fx, is this true?.

If you know how to tweak parameters, you can get almost any overdrive's tone in this. It's rather easy actually . PLUS pedals sound killer in to the front end of this. It doesn't have a plethora of 'cool' fuzzes,etc yet, but I have a feeling , it will , as Cliff has been listening to his customer's input really well.

Eric

[mranonimouse]

I'm that guy too , and that's why I haven't used my Axe-FX at my gigs at this point. I use my Tremoverb and Pedalboard. If I ever turn in to the guy who can program everything at home and NOT tweak at gigs, I'll switch over . Yes, the Global functions are great, and yes it's easy enough to tweak, but it's not knobs. If I only used a few different amp models and patches that I've programmed on this for gigs, I could do it for sure, but there's so much good stuff on there, I like TOO MUCH of it. Stupid , but it's been the case for the past 6months to year that I've owned (I can't remember how long it's been but I was 1 of the first 20-30 owners. For someone who can program it all ahead of time , it's awesome. For someone who just needs to tweak a bit at a gig, it's awesome.. For someone who needs the 'security blanket' of simple knobs, it won't do the trick.. . I'm in between those ,and am still using my amp(s) thus far, BUT almost everyone else I know who bought this , switched over :) Eric


Could you not just plug in a midi controller with knobs setup to control all the various amp parameters?

[Scott Peterson]

Could you not just plug in a midi controller with knobs setup to control all the various amp parameters?

Yes you could.

[drbob1]

The couple of things I keep thinking about with this thing is power amp and live tweaking.

For the power amp, I just need a 40-50 watt mono 6L6 block. That's pretty easy to get from an amp, but kinda hard to find in a power amp. I know I can get 100 watt amps and just run one side, but that seems like a waste. And who needs the extra weight.

The other is live tweakability. I'm that guy that gets on stage and has to tweak knobs. Strum a chord, too much mids, reach back and dial it down in a split second. Switch to mid gain OD, too much high end, reach back and dial it down in a split second. Switch to high gain, too hot, reach back and dial the master down a hair.

I like the ability to do that live. I'm sure the sound men hate it, but it's just part of a live performance for me. It seems like you loose that with the Fractal Axe Fx. Do you not?

The Peavey Classic 60 (mono version) for around $200 used is your ticket...

[bluesmostly]

Mine is on order :dude

I haven't been this excited about a piece of gear in a long time - and really just from a practical point of view - my tone is awesome, its the stage volume problems and hauling around that heavy gear that I am talking about. I have posted some about stage vol woes with my rig (I don't have a problem with my vol the rest of the band does...) and this sounds like it will do the trick for me.

questions:

I imagine wanting about 4-6 preset amp tones and 4-6 effects - is it easy enough to put that together and control it all with a midi pedal? boosing and adding or removing various effects from any given rig on the fly? any reccomendations for a midi controler?

I think I might like to have a power amp so I can run it into guitar cabs as well as direct either live or in the studio - any recommendations for a power amp? Actually, I used to have a VHT 50/50, I suppose that would have worked OK?

Thanks Scott and co. for turning me on to this - sounds like a great alternative rig/solution for many situations!

[solo-act]

...I haven't been this excited about a piece of gear in a long time ......
questions:
I imagine wanting about 4-6 preset amp tones and 4-6 effects - is it easy enough to put that together and control it all with a midi pedal? boosing and adding or removing various effects from any given rig on the fly? any reccomendations for a midi controler?..... I concur.....I've rarely been as excited about a piece of gear, and have NEVER had this much fun with a piece of gear that wasn't a guitar.

Short answer is YES. You can turn "pedals/fx" on/off individually or everything all at once.
A cheaper midi controller I use is the Rocktron Midimate. I like the price, the "instant access" mode, and the screen to name your patches. There are more feature rich controllers all the way up to $900 or higher.

[elicious]

wow this unit sounds almost too good to be true! :)

btw, Scott: after reading that review I think you should change your name from Scott Peterson to J. Peterman! lol :D

[bluesmostly]

another q for you Axe-fx owners. I understand that this unit has a wah, I already have one on my board also. I am looking for a midi controller to use with this unit. Should I get one with a pedal that I can assign to the wah effect in the Axe? I would rather just bring the midi foot controller to gigs than have to bring my board as well... thanks!

[Scott Peterson]

another q for you Axe-fx owners. I understand that this unit has a wah, I already have one on my board also. I am looking for a midi controller to use with this unit. Should I get one with a pedal that I can assign to the wah effect in the Axe? I would rather just bring the midi foot controller to gigs than have to bring my board as well... thanks!

You can assign up to 2 wahs per preset (in the Standard). You just need a midi controller that has a input for a volume pedal you can use to control it.

[MikeyG]

Behringer makes a MIDI board with a built-in pedal.

[bluesmostly]

Perfect, thanks Mike and Scott!

[ford]

If they ever come out with a version that just has amps, (no effects) and just has regular amp knobs, and looks like a head or a combo, I'd love to try it. Until then I'll just have to listen to people rock it. This isn't a knock on this version or the people who like it. I just hate scrolling and I hate tweaking stuff.... I'm bored with it after five minutes... and I'm not too old for technology. I've tried plenty of digital stuff and Line 6 stuff and even liked some of it. I can see how this is getting people excited. It has none of the beauty of a well made amp though. (of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder)

rock

bford

[WeAreOurGear]

For the record i have a Ultra on order. So I have definitely concluded that it is worth a good listen. :drool I also have other rack effects like G-sys, G-force, D-two, Eventide Eclipse, Yamaha UD-Stomp, Symmetrix 606 and pedals galore etc. ya da ya da. :o. One thing I noticed about the clips and a reason why we will likely keep our other effects is a certain sameness to the sounds. That is there is little difference in the 'quality of the sound'. Hard to describe but while some of the sounds are great they all seem to come from the same device. This is not unusual but may explain why multi-fx systems will never replace pedals or even other rack effects. When we hit an effect we want not just a change in sound but a change in the quality of sound. Its this quality of sound that is interesting to the ear. Take a listen again to the medley clips which is the best example of this sameness. Its like a veil or filter dominates the sound of the guitar through all of the different grooves. Changing presets does not change this aspect. Furthermore many of our effects are used 'just for this one sound' and since the AXE-fx is also the preamp it may color whatever you plug into it, thus rendering your precious sound to the sameness of all the other sounds. This will be most noticeable with analog effects that may precede the axe-fx in the signal chain. In the end I'm convinced the Axe-fx will find its place in the pantheon of cool effects, but i do not think it will cause us to sell off everything we have IMHO.:)

[Scott Peterson]

For the record i have a Ultra on order. So I have definitely concluded that it is worth a good listen. :drool I also have other rack effects like G-sys, G-force, D-two, Eventide Eclipse, Yamaha UD-Stomp, Symmetrix 606 and pedals galore etc. ya da ya da. :o. One thing I noticed about the clips and a reason why we will likely keep our other effects is a certain sameness to the sounds. That is there is little difference in the 'quality of the sound'. Hard to describe but while some of the sounds are great they all seem to come from the same device. This is not unusual but may explain why multi-fx systems will never replace pedals or even other rack effects. When we hit an effect we want not just a change in sound but a change in the quality of sound. Its this quality of sound that is interesting to the ear. Take a listen again to the medley clips which is the best example of this sameness. Its like a veil or filter dominates the sound of the guitar through all of the different grooves. Changing presets does not change this aspect. Furthermore many of our effects are used 'just for this one sound' and since the AXE-fx is also the preamp it may color whatever you plug into it, thus rendering your precious sound to the sameness of all the other sounds. This will be most noticeable with analog effects that may precede the axe-fx in the signal chain. In the end I'm convinced the Axe-fx will find its place in the pantheon of cool effects, but i do not think it will cause us to sell off everything we have IMHO.:)

Here's where I'll call you on it. I don't agree.

When you are listening to that medley; you are hearing how one guy dialed it in. To his ear, most likely that's *his* sound; he'll dial in all his sounds with that same 'texture' if you will. The 'sameness' you mention. Now listen to other guys' stuff; same box, direct in. Sounds totally different.

Take it from another direction. Countless threads on TGP and across the net note the same thing, 'no matter what amp I use, I always sound like me.' The reason? The same guy, with the same hands, same guitar, dialed in that amp tone.

What you are describing is exactly how the Axe-FX is like a real amp - it let's what you play, how you play, and the other gear you use, shine through. It won't make your guitars sound the same. It won't make you sound like other guys playing the same gear even. Now check that medley again, and note how most all the tones are actually very similar in gain structure and his playing is similar; that's his style. It's not the box you're hearing.

I'll say this again, you cannot cast judgment on how this box sounds/feels/reacts until you've tried it. And it depends on what you do with it - recording direct is a very different experience than using it as a preamp in a live rig.

This is truly beyond all that; because it excels in any role I've tried it thus far, and it has this absolutely real and insanely unique 'uncolor' that dominates, completely counter to exactly your main point - it doesn't have a dominating sameness; you have to dial that in if you want it. Or not.

You'll hear within the first 15 minutes you have one what I'm saying. This is NOT another modeler. This is NOT another processor. This is something that has never been before. Never been done. Totally unique.

[Rod]

Wow...I'm speechless....Thankx 4 the review Scott!!!!!!!!!!

[GDking]

Here's where I'll call you on it. I don't agree.

When you are listening to that medley; you are hearing how one guy dialed it in. To his ear, most likely that's *his* sound; he'll dial in all his sounds with that same 'texture' if you will. The 'sameness' you mention. Now listen to other guys' stuff; same box, direct in. Sounds totally different.

Take it from another direction. Countless threads on TGP and across the net note the same thing, 'no matter what amp I use, I always sound like me.' The reason? The same guy, with the same hands, same guitar, dialed in that amp tone.

What you are describing is exactly how the Axe-FX is like a real amp - it let's what you play, how you play, and the other gear you use, shine through. It won't make your guitars sound the same. It won't make you sound like other guys playing the same gear even. Now check that medley again, and note how most all the tones are actually very similar in gain structure and his playing is similar; that's his style. It's not the box you're hearing.

I'll say this again, you cannot cast judgment on how this box sounds/feels/reacts until you've tried it. And it depends on what you do with it - recording direct is a very different experience than using it as a preamp in a live rig.

This is truly beyond all that; because it excels in any role I've tried it thus far, and it has this absolutely real and insanely unique 'uncolor' that dominates, completely counter to exactly your main point - it doesn't have a dominating sameness; you have to dial that in if you want it. Or not.

You'll hear within the first 15 minutes you have one what I'm saying. This is NOT another modeler. This is NOT another processor. This is something that has never been before. Never been done. Totally unique.

So when you turn down the volume on the guitar it doesnt go from "full on with effect" to silence? You can actually dial out grit etc with the volume knob and shape cleans with the tone knob?

That is where I always had a problem with computer based amps for live work. You could not use your tone control and volume on the guitar to any great effect so it was more "full on" or nothing especially higher gain overdrive tones.

Does this product address that?

[MikeyG]

So when you turn down the volume on the guitar it doesnt go from "full on with effect" to silence? You can actually dial out grit etc with the volume knob and shape cleans with the tone knob?
Does this product address that?

It does, yeah. It's not as good as a Wreck or Marshall or Komet, but it does pretty well. Much better than any previous modeler.

Or alternatively, attach a MIDI controller to the gain control, and roll it back with a pedal (without the loss of volume you'd get at the guitar volume control)

[riffy]

So when you turn down the volume on the guitar it doesnt go from "full on with effect" to silence? You can actually dial out grit etc with the volume knob and shape cleans with the tone knob?

That is where I always had a problem with computer based amps for live work. You could not use your tone control and volume on the guitar to any great effect so it was more "full on" or nothing especially higher gain overdrive tones.

Does this product address that?


I am running pretty low output pickups. I really don't like the sound
of a lot of high output pickups. For my guitars, the Axe-FX cleans
up very well. Now depending on what pickups you are using I would
say the same would hold true for you.

Try a really good tube amp that cleans up well and use high output
pickups with it. You will see as has been my personal experience that
they don't really do as well either.

I use a continuous controller for my volume roll-offs to
keep the same relative volume when gigging live. When I wanna go
softer, then I use the guitar volume.

Just my 2cents worth.

[vinney57]

From the Axe-FX site:

(The patch change delay is now) "down to 25 ms with Delay Spill off, and 10 ms with Delay Spill on"

I think someone made the analogy that 25ms is the time sound gets out from the speakers to 1 foot in front of the cab. Basically non-existant.

EP

Just for correctness 1ms is approx equivalent 1 foot at sea level. 25ms would be equivalent to 25ft. This would still be unnoticable during a gig. Its less than the time one frame of film stays on screen for instance.

[WeAreOurGear]

Here's where I'll call you on it. I don't agree.

When you are listening to that medley; you are hearing how one guy dialed it in. To his ear, most likely that's *his* sound; he'll dial in all his sounds with that same 'texture' if you will. The 'sameness' you mention. Now listen to other guys' stuff; same box, direct in. Sounds totally different.

Take it from another direction. Countless threads on TGP and across the net note the same thing, 'no matter what amp I use, I always sound like me.' The reason? The same guy, with the same hands, same guitar, dialed in that amp tone.

What you are describing is exactly how the Axe-FX is like a real amp - it let's what you play, how you play, and the other gear you use, shine through. It won't make your guitars sound the same. It won't make you sound like other guys playing the same gear even. Now check that medley again, and note how most all the tones are actually very similar in gain structure and his playing is similar; that's his style. It's not the box you're hearing.

I'll say this again, you cannot cast judgment on how this box sounds/feels/reacts until you've tried it. And it depends on what you do with it - recording direct is a very different experience than using it as a preamp in a live rig.

This is truly beyond all that; because it excels in any role I've tried it thus far, and it has this absolutely real and insanely unique 'uncolor' that dominates, completely counter to exactly your main point - it doesn't have a dominating sameness; you have to dial that in if you want it. Or not.

You'll hear within the first 15 minutes you have one what I'm saying. This is NOT another modeler. This is NOT another processor. This is something that has never been before. Never been done. Totally unique.

Well Scott, you are an impassioned advocate I will say that for you!:) I forgot to thank you for the review. Contributing to these boards can eat up a lot of time and I appreciate your contributions. Well done! :dude

I beg to differ on your point of the axe-fx has never been done before. There are countless preamp/processor solutions including solutions from digitech, Tc Electronic, carvin, peavey, line6, Lexicon, etc.. BTW they all process the sound and the all have a signature tone quality. As I said this is not unusual. No need to be defensive. It is what it is. The axe-fx is one in a long line of attempts to 'get it right' but its hardly the first and I suspect will not be the last! http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif I'm just hoping it raises the bar and sets a new standard for what is possible. I admit my expectations are probably lower than most as I do not expect it to be the end all, just another creative ingredient for the tool chest. If it succeeds on that front and offers a better playing experience than the above mentioned it will be a success for me. I can't wait to get mine. http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon7.gif peace.

[jzgtrguy]

Scott,

That was one hell of a long post! I had started another thread with some questons because I was too lazy to read it all but in the end I did and my questions were answered. By interactive I mean the way a guitar and an amp interact with feed back and sensitivity to different pickups various out puts and the volume knob on the guitar or a VP. The thing sounds pretty amazing. I still get hung up on the programing issue. It sounds like there are a gazillion parameters to tweek. If you like tweeking you are in heaven.

Another experience I have had is that with the modeling equipment I have had or used in the past Yamaha, Fender, Vox, Line6 etc. even though I spent hours programing various patches I found that while playing live I really only lived in one or two pre sets, mostly just one. I know that no single peice of equipment if for everyone. Maybe this is not for me.....

One more thing.....you have owned a boat load of high end gear and if the AXE-FX stacks up that well to all those great amps that is in and of itself a great testamonial espicially if the amps in the box sound that good naked.

thanks for the education,

Jeff

[Scott Peterson]

WeOurAreGear: I am not being defensive or snippy with you in any manner; honest. I am discussing and talking, not trying to 'win' anything here. I stand by my opinion; the Axe-FX is the most neutral sounding processor I've ever heard. And I've owned used many of them over the years same as you. I know what you saying; and I am saying this thing is different. My expectations were, IMHO, way above what was possible and when I got the thing and in the few weeks since, I've realized just what a thing this is. It is a monster and it is NOT like anything ever done before. We can argue the semantics of that all you like; but until you've tried it, it remains speculation. I feel it is very important to hip folks to what I think I've found here. We very well might disagree even once you've gotten yours, but I personally suspect that if your goals/tastes are anything like mine, we'll be speaking the same language in the same manner.

jzgtrguy,
One point to remember is that although you can go nuts with the tweaking, it simply isn't necessary to do so to get the sounds. Remember a credo that my Father taught me over the years, "Just because you can, does not mean you should!" (or need to).

[electronpirate]

Just for correctness 1ms is approx equivalent 1 foot at sea level. 25ms would be equivalent to 25ft. This would still be unnoticable during a gig. Its less than the time one frame of film stays on screen for instance.

Thanks for the clarification Vinney! I should do the research before stealing someone else's stuff....

EP

[solo-act]

....It sounds like there are a gazillion parameters to tweek. If you like tweeking you are in heaven......

.......I found that while playing live I really only lived in one or two pre sets, mostly just one. I know that no single peice of equipment if for everyone. Maybe this is not for me.... As far as parameters, it can be as simple or as complex as you want. For instance, toss a fender bassman into the maxtrix, maybe a compressor in front of it, choose the 4x12 cab with a 57, get the amps "tubes" working, and you're done. Same as the real world.

When it comes to complex, if you want to dial up "the edge" and duplicate some U2 rigs......well then you're into tweakers land. Or, if you're like Scott Lerner you can spend a bunch of time exploring just one amp and all the tones that can live inside of it. You could probably spend weeks on one amp creating a ton of different presets with just the amp settings and cab/mic choices.

As far as useable tones live, I currently use 4 fender heads, two AC30 heads, the plexi marshall and the 800, the dumble, the matchless, and one head built by fractal audio. Then those heads have multiple patches depending on what cabinets/mics are paired with them, and what the amp settings are.

[jzgtrguy]

Scott,

What you said!

[jzgtrguy]

Scott,

If you use the Axe-FX as a live rig and if it has Power amp models in it does that mean that you can get that super soaked sound when both pre-amp and power amp are breaking up at any volume? I have been looking at power scaling amps and/or mods but if this can sound good at any volume level it would be a plus. I am aware of the Fletcher-Munson effect..........Currently I am using a Weber Mass 100 attenator and where it does a good job I am not happy with it and just prefer playing straight but there are those situations where that is not possible.

And along those lines if it has power amp sounds in it wouldn't it make sense to use an Ultra linear Solid state power amp to just make it louder. Kind of like Frank Gambale does with his Carven TN100 (I am not comparing the two just an example) and a Carvin Solid state power amp? If you used a Tube power amp couldn't it conflict with what you are trying to do in the power amp section of the Axe-FX?

Thanks,

Jeff

[Hacksaw]

WeOurAreGear: I am not being defensive or snippy with you in any manner; honest. I am discussing and talking, not trying to 'win' anything here. I stand by my opinion; the Axe-FX is the most neutral sounding processor I've ever heard. And I've owned used many of them over the years same as you. I know what you saying; and I am saying this thing is different. My expectations were, IMHO, way above what was possible and when I got the thing and in the few weeks since, I've realized just what a thing this is. It is a monster and it is NOT like anything ever done before. We can argue the semantics of that all you like; but until you've tried it, it remains speculation. I feel it is very important to hip folks to what I think I've found here. We very well might disagree even once you've gotten yours, but I personally suspect that if your goals/tastes are anything like mine, we'll be speaking the same language in the same manner.

jzgtrguy,
One point to remember is that although you can go nuts with the tweaking, it simply isn't necessary to do so to get the sounds. Remember a credo that my Father taught me over the years, "Just because you can, does not mean you should!" (or need to).

Hi Scott,

Now that you've had this for a little while.. How would you compare it to the Voodu Valve? I had a Voodu for years.. and it was a very good processor with effects. Very reliable I might add. I am very curious!

Thanks!

[bosstone]

That is my biggest question remaining: How does it sound at lower volumes? I too was seriously looking into "Power Scaling". Does this eliminate the need for "Power Scaling"?

[GDking]

I am running pretty low output pickups. I really don't like the sound
of a lot of high output pickups. For my guitars, the Axe-FX cleans
up very well. Now depending on what pickups you are using I would
say the same would hold true for you.

Try a really good tube amp that cleans up well and use high output
pickups with it. You will see as has been my personal experience that
they don't really do as well either.

I use a continuous controller for my volume roll-offs to
keep the same relative volume when gigging live. When I wanna go
softer, then I use the guitar volume.

Just my 2cents worth.


Mike
It does, yeah. It's not as good as a Wreck or Marshall or Komet, but it does pretty well. Much better than any previous modeler.

Or alternatively, attach a MIDI controller to the gain control, and roll it back with a pedal (without the loss of volume you'd get at the guitar volume control)



That is good to hear That was my biggest complaint about modelers. I feel that was one of the biggest hurdles left before they became a viable live tool.

So you guys go right into the PA with this or do you use a cab?

[Dana Olsen]

Here is a clip from the Fractal website demonstrating guitar vol knob interaction with the processor.

http://www.fractalaudio.com/Documents/SOLO100.mp3

Tho whole page of clips is impressive, even though they're just clips. It's enough to make me wanna play through one in person.

Thanks Scott for the great and detailed review.

Dana O.

[WeAreOurGear]

Here is a clip from the Fractal website demonstrating guitar vol knob interaction with the processor.

http://www.fractalaudio.com/Documents/SOLO100.mp3

Tho whole page of clips is impressive, even though they're just clips. It's enough to make me wanna play through one in person.

Thanks Scott for the great and detailed review.

Dana O.

Nice! Sounds very responsive to guitar vol control!

Can anybody point me to a clip of clean jazz tone? You know jazz archtop tone you get from running through a carr Rambler, or fender DR?

[Dana Olsen]

Nice! Sounds very responsive to guitar vol control!

Can anybody point me to a clip of clean jazz tone? You know jazz archtop tone you get from running through a carr Rambler, or fender DR?Here's the URL to the Fractal 'sounds' page:

http://www.fractalaudio.com/sounds.html

Maybe there's one here. It's a good tour anyway of lots of sounds.

Dana O.

[AndrewSimon]

WeOurAreGear: I am not being defensive or snippy with you in any manner; honest. I am discussing and talking, not trying to 'win' anything here. I stand by my opinion; the Axe-FX is the most neutral sounding processor I've ever heard. And I've owned used many of them over the years same as you. I know what you saying; and I am saying this thing is different. My expectations were, IMHO, way above what was possible and when I got the thing and in the few weeks since, I've realized just what a thing this is. It is a monster and it is NOT like anything ever done before. We can argue the semantics of that all you like; but until you've tried it, it remains speculation. I feel it is very important to hip folks to what I think I've found here. We very well might disagree even once you've gotten yours, but I personally suspect that if your goals/tastes are anything like mine, we'll be speaking the same language in the same manner.

jzgtrguy,
One point to remember is that although you can go nuts with the tweaking, it simply isn't necessary to do so to get the sounds. Remember a credo that my Father taught me over the years, "Just because you can, does not mean you should!" (or need to).

Hi Scott

I do not play live so I am only interested in direct recording.
If you have any experience with Amplitube2, I would love to hear a comparison between Amplitube2 and Axe-FX.
By the way from my experience 12ms is unnoticeable in the studio, 25ms is too much!

:JAM

[cliffc8488]

Hi Scott

By the way from my experience 12ms is unnoticeable in the studio, 25ms is too much!

:JAM


25 ms is the maximum preset change time, not the latency. The latency is around 1ms.

CC

[ford]

so has anyone told Tag that his Bruno's might be obsolete??? :jo

Yes I kid... there's room in this amp world for everyone...:dude

rock

bford

[Scott Peterson]

Scott,

If you use the Axe-FX as a live rig and if it has Power amp models in it does that mean that you can get that super soaked sound when both pre-amp and power amp are breaking up at any volume? I have been looking at power scaling amps and/or mods but if this can sound good at any volume level it would be a plus. I am aware of the Fletcher-Munson effect..........Currently I am using a Weber Mass 100 attenator and where it does a good job I am not happy with it and just prefer playing straight but there are those situations where that is not possible.

And along those lines if it has power amp sounds in it wouldn't it make sense to use an Ultra linear Solid state power amp to just make it louder. Kind of like Frank Gambale does with his Carven TN100 (I am not comparing the two just an example) and a Carvin Solid state power amp? If you used a Tube power amp couldn't it conflict with what you are trying to do in the power amp section of the Axe-FX?

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff,

Lots of guys are. I can't; just old school tube power rig for me. Why? It works and so well, I don't want to try anything elsel

Check this quote as for why; and remember that everybody's needs/wants/goals are different as they are similar:

Spiky81 wrote: This is a pretty common thing when people go to direct rigs i've noticed. I've gone through Triaxis to either an ADA ampulator, or a Mesa 2:90/Palmer PGA-04 speaker sim, and while they both sounded very good, It's never going to feel exactly the same as the power amp/cab combo in the room feeling that you are typically used to feeling. (I also have owned a 2x12 and 4x12 recto cab with the mesa 2:90 and 395).

That being said, every great live concert (or at least most) and every great CD guitar tone you've ever heard has been this mic'd up sound that you are hearing through your direct setup, in fact most of us haven't ever heard the in front of the amp sound of our hero's guitar rig.

It the end we will all have to, like many of the other forumers, to decide whether hearing what the crowd hears, or hearing what you are accustomed to hearing is what you want. Many AXE'ers have opted to go with a poweramp/guitar cab setup to retain this kick you in the butt feeling.

[Scott Peterson]

Hi Scott,

Now that you've had this for a little while.. How would you compare it to the Voodu Valve? I had a Voodu for years.. and it was a very good processor with effects. Very reliable I might add. I am very curious!

Thanks!

I have that in the first page. The Voodu Valve is excellent and does the job. It has it's sonic signature, which is fine. It is limited in what you can do per preset; but the base tone is very good. The Axe-FX utterly surpasses everything the VV does in every way, IMHO. That doesn't diminish the VV as much as it might seem; it shows how good that unit was/is.

FWIW, if you want to buy my VV, it's up for sale.

[Scott Peterson]

That is my biggest question remaining: How does it sound at lower volumes? I too was seriously looking into "Power Scaling". Does this eliminate the need for "Power Scaling"?

I can't answer this because I have not used/owned/tried a "Power Scaling" amp.

I can say that this does what you are discussing, as I've pointed out numerous times now. It's as real as you wanna be. As raw as you wanna be. Or not. The thing is, it's up to you to decide it now. This thing lets you do what you want to. Amplify it how you want to. Go direct if you want to.

And the routing is starting to sink into my head. What you can do.

It's utterly simple, but devastatingly powerful - its up to you.

[Scott Peterson]

I would like to hear his opinion and Carl Fiadino's.

:messedup:messedup:worried:worried

[riffy]

:messedup:messedup:worried:worried


LOL, I thought that very same thing, but didn't wanna be the first
to post it...:BEER

[Tony Foran]

I deleted the post but I would like to hear their opinions. What's wrong with that? I'm not implying they won't like it,they might love it. Really,I just want to hear Carl and Tag in the same room jamming.:JAM

[AndrewSimon]

25 ms is the maximum preset change time, not the latency. The latency is around 1ms.

CC

Thanks, that sounds much better.
So is the waitting list still 3 months? (on the regular one)

:confused:

[Hacksaw]

I have that in the first page. The Voodu Valve is excellent and does the job. It has it's sonic signature, which is fine. It is limited in what you can do per preset; but the base tone is very good. The Axe-FX utterly surpasses everything the VV does in every way, IMHO. That doesn't diminish the VV as much as it might seem; it shows how good that unit was/is.

FWIW, if you want to buy my VV, it's up for sale.

I already forgot.. LOL.. Sorry to revisit it.

I almost approached you on the VV until I found the Axe-FX :D I got my order in as you know. woohoo..

[Hacksaw]

Thanks, that sounds much better.
So is the waitting list still 3 months? (on the regular one)

:confused:

ya.. still 3 months.. got my email notification a few days ago.
----
We're running about 3 months right now.

Thanks,
Danielle
sales@fractalaudio.com
----

[Scoredog]

3 months is way too much latency

[jzgtrguy]

[quote=Scott Peterson;2714479]Jeff,

Lots of guys are. I can't; just old school tube power rig for me. Why? It works and so well, I don't want to try anything elsel

Check this quote as for why; and remember that everybody's needs/wants/goals are different as they are similar:[/quote


Thanks Scott,

The quote helps. I prefer a point source like an amp/cab combo. I don't like playing direct. Maybe I didn't do a good job of explaining my concern. It is sort of like pluging a digital modeler in front of your combo amp. Now you have a tone stack (modeled one) in front of a tone stack on the amp and wouldn't the amp color the model you were trying to create. I was thinking that the Tube power amp would color the power amp of the Axe-FX. Maybe the answer is self evident. You are way more experienced here than I am. I am looking for a rig to live. I really do not do any recording.

As far as the power scaling thing goes most of the time I will be playing small venues and need an amp that sounds great at low volumes but I guess that is all dependant on what power amp I am using.

Out,

Jeff

[JeffMN]

A coworker of mine told me about this thing a few weeks ago, and I all but wrote it off... "looks like my old 2101" I said. But wow... this thing sounds great in the clips, and in theory, looks awesome. I'm a tweeker (it's a disease) and I love messing with this stuff. I'm definitely interested.

Am I the only one that thinks it's a little strange that there's no headphone out on this unit? If it had something that I could just plug in to and play right now (2:00 am) and get those tones, I'd be all over it. And to think I said I'd never do the whole rack thing again...

[clunk]

Well i have to admit, based on the clips on their site this thing sounds pretty amazing. And i'd have to trust Scotts ears on this thing. Looks like it would deffinately be a fun unit to explore. Iv'e been out of the recording industry since '95 when i used to work primarily on jingles and with some producers on publishing deals. If i were still in the industry i would buy something like this in a heart beat.

Clunk

[Lucidology]

Modelers work very well through a Bose L1 system...
Wonder how this unit would sound through one ... ?

[Max Headroom]

Hi,

I was the guy who recorded the two above mentioned medleys - thanks for your kind comments.

One thing I noticed about the clips and a reason why we will likely keep our other effects is a certain sameness to the sounds. That is there is little difference in the 'quality of the sound'. Hard to describe but while some of the sounds are great they all seem to come from the same device. This is not unusual but may explain why multi-fx systems will never replace pedals or even other rack effects. When we hit an effect we want not just a change in sound but a change in the quality of sound. Its this quality of sound that is interesting to the ear. Take a listen again to the medley clips which is the best example of this sameness. Its like a veil or filter dominates the sound of the guitar through all of the different grooves. Changing presets does not change this aspect. Furthermore many of our effects are used 'just for this one sound' and since the AXE-fx is also the preamp it may color whatever you plug into it, thus rendering your precious sound to the sameness of all the other sounds.

As Scott mentioned, this is due to my style - or I would say limitations - it's not the AXE-FX. As soon as a friend of mine plugs in, it sounds completely different and that's what I love so much with the AXE-FX, it's like the real thing. There are boxes out there which let everyone sound the same - not with the AXE-FX, it reacts like a real good tube amp - or a box of them. Different player = different tone. Isn't that what we all want? Well, I want my tone and I want it to sound and feel good and I don't want to have to think about reliability when I'm on stage - when the lights are on I want to forget about everything and just play.

Please don't forget, these are only clips, you have to play the AXE-FX for yourself to find out.

Thanks a lot for the review Scott, I'm completely with you. I've been playing guitar since 1980 (or 79) and over the years I bought a lot of stuff, from Plexi Marshalls, Master Volume Marshalls, a '65 Deluxe Reverb, '63 Tremolux, a Soldano, Rivera TBR1 and many more, also owned a small rack.

All I still own are an old Kitty Hawk Standard (never came closer to a real Dumble), a JTM45, a DC30 and a Tweed Deluxe Clone which I will not sale because of sentimental reasons, but I rolled them aside, stored them at a warm and safe place and get all my sounds for my bands and recording with my AXE-FX. I also have a box full of lovely pedals - now they are resting with the amps.

With my bands I'm using my AXE-FX with a pair of Atomic 212/50 a Midi board and that's it, ready in a minute and everyone who has listened to it loved it, but what's most important to me: I have a simple and reliable rig which I love to play with.

Cheers

Jochen

[MikeyG]

I keep stumbling on new great sounding amps. Last night it was a Budda Twinmaster, wow, what a shimmery clean!! World class clean tone, for sure.

[MikeyG]

yeah the presets are very wet. If I find one I wanna keep, I usually turn the mix level WAY DOWN.

[Rod]

Scott...thankx again for all your valuable information on the Fractal Audio Axe-FX.....Been looking for something of this caliber for 15 years.......just joined the list......thankx again....!!

[HassanBinSober]

id never buy a first generation do it all in one box type deal, i dont care how good it sounds, i gurantee, next year it will come down in price and have many software updates, lol.

I understand that most upgrades will come from firmware downloads, but this post does remind me that there could well be changes to the supporting hardware that might refine the fidelity of the signal - not just the type of model.

I also understand that this device brings increadible versitility to a rig, yet I still can't get around the simple fact that the power amp and cab/speakers used with a Fractal unit will alter the original amp tone that is being modeled. A Fractal set up like a Twin Reverb played into a SS power amp with a 4x12 cab with Greenbacks is not a Twin Reverb. I'm NOT saying it wouldn't be interesting, just that, well, you know. I guess, of course, you could match the TR model with a 6L6-based power amp into a 2x12 with Jensens. But then what, turn the cab sims off or are they off all the time when using a real cab?

No flame, just wondering.

[javajunkie]

"but this post does remind me that there could well be changes to the supporting hardware that might refine the fidelity of the signal - not just the type of model"

It already has the Ultra is the second generation of the Fractal products (just a faster processsor w/ more memory). However, both the regular and Ultra started out w/ top of the line components so refiments of that type will probably be minimal. This is true of any amp, fx unit, or electronic device.


"But, then what, turn the cab sims off? "

Yes, and perhaps the poweramp modelling as well.

"3 months is way too much latency"

Growth was orders of magnatude greater than expected and there were some initial problem getting the chipsets (this has been resolved). At the same time, you don't want to hire too many people and have to lay them off or have too much overhead after the inital rush of orders is over.

[electronpirate]

I also understand that this device brings inceadible versitility to a rig, yet I still can't get around the simple fact that the power amp and cab/speakers used with a Fractal unit will alter the original amp tone that is being modeled. A Fractal set up like a Twin Reverb played into a SS power amp with a 4x12 cab with Greenbacks is not a Twin Reverb. I NOT saying it wouldn't be interesting, but, well, you know. I guess, of course, you could match the TR model with a 6L6-based power amp into a 2x12 with Jensens. But, then what, turn the cab sims off?

No flame, just wondering.

It's a good point. One that has been debated ad-nauseum over at the AFX board.

It's nearly impossible if you run a AXEFx-poweramp-speaker situation to go from Fender to Death Metal COMPLETELY convincingly. A clean power amp will go a long way, but there is no way around speakers. To make the MOST of the flexibility, you'd have to go direct. Use the cab sims, whole 9 yards. Most of us running this like the feel of an amp behind us, so we run the rig rather than direct. I'd try some pretty neutral speakers, which would help, but you'd probably have to run 3 different speaker cabs to get every sound perfectly....pointless. Some have tried the full range PA speaker behind them, but it still seems like kissing your sister.

In a way tho, this makes the point. We FINALLY have a solution that gets the amp part right, and now we're quibbling over speaker choice.

EP

[solo-act]

....A Fractal set up like a Twin Reverb played into a SS power amp with a 4x12 cab with Greenbacks is not a Twin Reverb. I'm NOT saying it wouldn't be interesting, just that, well, you know...... I scratch my head at that too.
Real world amps/cabs paired with the axe-fx to build a live stage rig is by nature handicapping the capacity of the Axe-fx.... unless you're just copping a few tones, or.... you sacrifice a little on stage tone but feed the PA a direct signal with optimal amps/cabs in the Axe-fx.....or... you're using a neutral full range power amp and cab to have as your stage rig. Some are doing that. Others are pairing amps/cabs they have lying around their house with the axe-fx and scratching their heads why the tone isn't quite right. I may cross that bridge someday, but for simplicity I'm running direct. I'm far from tapping out the Axe-fx, but just in my show I run 10 different amps, 9 cabinets, and 7 different mics. Having that on tap to do variety covers is very liberating.

[javajunkie]

Cliff stated he has ideas for this, but the current processors are not fast enough to do it right.

[MikeyG]

I had turned off all cabs, since I was running through my power amp and 4x12. Just for grins, on a Voxy patch, I put a cab sim back in there (2 x 12 Brit cab) and it sure got closer to the AC30 tone. Sometimes the cab sim works, sometimes it doesn't, when running AF > power amp > cab.

I've found this to be a plus, not a minus. Like the Matchless model, for instance. I've always found the DC30 low end too loose. But using my 100 watt EL34 back end, I've got the chime, plus a wicked tight low end. Best of both worlds. It's not exactly the same, no, but that doesn't bother me.

Someone who wants exact Twin tone, and nothing else, is definitely better off sticking with the real deal. Axe-FX is about great tones, not exact replications, and extreme versatility.

[Scott Peterson]

I am running a Bruce Egnater designed Randall RT2/50 power amp running NOS Phillips 7581A (6L6 like) on one side and GT 6CA7 (EL34 like) on the other. It's midi switchable per preset. It's a fantastic piece of kit.

I might not out Matchless a Matchless or out Twin a Twin with my personally chosen exact live setup, but that's not the point. If I go direct and you mic up your Fender or Matchless and then we compare the sounds; we are talking apples/apples then. The whole "modeling is ONE THING one way" again rears it's ugly head. Line 6 and others have preached that you can have it all in a box; you don't get that from Line 6 or anyone else. Line 6's marketing was very effective; and left a bad taste in a lot of folks mouths IMHO. The combo amps - and even the Vetta - are not every amp in a box. They are approximations of every amp, because they share the same power amp, the same cabinet and the same speaker. You can EQ it all you want; the result still comes out of the same source.

This isn't that; unless you run direct and even then it's a mic'd version of it, like you get out of FOH or listening in a control room. You've got to understand what that means; that's how it is in real life. You don't get a Twin in the box, even if it sounds like a Twin. You get a Twin preamp you can use with whatever power amp and speaker cabs you like; and you can turn the power amp and/or cabinet sims off if you like. Or not. One of the problems here is that this thing is so damn good you can indeed do so much with it, in any sort of rig or direct. And that's hard to wrap your head around.

Folks need to comprehend what I said in the first two posts on this thread - this isn't another modeler. This isn't simply a Line 6 POD on steroids. Fractal does it Fractal's way.

I don't feel 'compromised' running my rig the way I run it, in fact it's a breath of fresh air. I choose the preamp, I choose the power amp, I choose the cab. All very deliberate and very much on purpose. And I am not limited by any factors, because I can run it direct or with a solid state power amp into a full range cabinet.

Another point to consider, really, is that perhaps - ponder this before dismissing it - the tones I am getting are better than the 'real' thing. Perhaps my Marshall tone is better than any Marshall I ever used. Because I could/can/did craft that tone with timbre's that I like from the signature Marshall tone, but shaped in a way that works better for me. And the same with Fender tones. And Vox tones. And Mesa tones. Etc. etc.. Borrowing the color and body and aspects that make each tone individual, and crafting them into new places with all the nuance, feel and 3D gliss and attack that *I* want.

It seems to me that people are not getting what I am saying; I don't know how to be clearer. The time and product has come that can craft tones as well as - or better - than the 'real' thing. If you want a Fender and you want an absolute dead-on, can't tell it from another Fender tone - then for goodness sake, get a Fender. If you want the mic'd up sound of that same Fender every time, consistent from night-to-night, then the Axe-FX fits that bill. If you want to create your own hybrid setup with whatever power amp (tube, solid state, whatever) and a chosen cab; then have at (my preferred setup). That's the point; you can do that. With authority and the ability to satisfy the boutique tube snob's cork sniffing needs. :D (And I should know, I fit that description!)

[the_Chris]

I am running a Bruce Egnater designed Randall RT2/50 power amp running NOS Phillips 5751A (6L6 like) on one side and GT 6CA7 (EL34 like) on the other. It's midi switchable per preset. It's a fantastic piece of kit.

I might not out Matchless a Matchless or out Twin a Twin, but that's not the point. The whole "modeling is ONE THING" again rears it's ugly head. Line 6 and others have preached that you can have it all in a box. This isn't that; unless you run direct and even then it's a mic'd version of it, like you get out of FOH or listening in a control room. You've got to understand what that means; that's how it is in real life. You don't get a Twin in the box, even if it sounds like a Twin. You get a Twin preamp you can use with whatever power amp and speaker cabs you like; and you can turn the power amp and/or cabinet sims off if you like. Or not. One of the problems here is that this thing is so damn good you can indeed do so much with it, in any sort of rig or direct. And that's hard to wrap your head around.

Folks need to comprehend what I said in the first two posts on this thread - this isn't another modeler. This isn't simply a Line 6 POD on steroids. Fractal does it Fractal's way.

I don't feel 'compromised' running my rig the way I run it, in fact it's a breath of fresh air. I choose the preamp, I choose the power amp, I choose the cab. All very deliberate and very much on purpose. And I am not limited by any factors, because I can run it direct or with a solid state power amp into a full range cabinet.

Another point to consider, really, is that perhaps - ponder this before dismissing it - the tones I am getting are better than the 'real' thing. Perhaps my Marshall tone is better than any Marshall I ever used. Because I could/can/did craft that tone with timbre's that I like from the signature Marshall tone, but shaped in a way that works better for me. And the same with Fender tones. And Vox tones. And Mesa tones. Etc. etc.. Borrowing the color and body and aspects that make each tone individual, and crafting them into new places with all the nuance, feel and 3D gliss and attack that *I* want.

It seems to me that people are not getting what I am saying; I don't know how to be clearer. The time and product has come that can craft tones as well as - or better - than the 'real' thing. If you want a Fender and you want an absolute dead-on, can't tell it from another Fender tone - then for goodness sake, get a Fender. If you want the mic'd up sound of that same Fender every time, consistent from night-to-night, then the Axe-FX fits that bill. If you want to create your own hybrid setup with whatever power amp (tube, solid state, whatever) and a chosen cab; then have at (my preferred setup). That's the point; you can do that. With authority and the ability to satisfy the boutique tube snob's cork sniffing needs. :D (And I should know, I fit that description!)

Scott,

with replies like that, you make it very hard for some us to refrain from buying this product :D

[Marcello]

Thanks for your review Scott , sounds really exciting !

clips are just what they are...but I noticed something that I hear in most modelers and that is pick noise. That little 'kweek' sound, don't know how to describe it but it's there. To me, it's the trademark of digital devices. In a mix most folks won't care for sure, gigging is another story.

One thing I learned with modelers, PODS, v-amps, GR and amplitube is that if you take the time to tweak'em you can find some really GREAT tones. Many people dismiss them too quickly, they don't go any further than stock patches which all suck. I honestly don't think that the clips posted in this thread were any better than some of the L6 stuff I've heard accross the internet.

Nonetheless, It seems like a fantastic peace of gear. Please post your impressions in the next weeks !
Peace.

[BountyHuntr]

Probably should have posted this here instead of the other point of view thread. I run mine direct to the PA. Spent the last almost 2 weeks tweaking... I'm sick of tweaking...but I've got a better handle on the AF now so tweaks are much easier. Running the AF direct to the PA does not sound like a raw solo tube amp... but micing a tube amp and listening to it from the FOH will not sound like raw solo tube amp. But the AF sounds naturally like a mic'd raw tube amp... any tube amp virtually. PLus instant variety at the touch of a button!!

I can't comment on how it sounds through a tube or SS power amp, combo, et al, but it sounds great direct to the PA. To my ears it's as good and better than a traditional rig... and more flexible than the biggest majority. To your ears it may not... guarantee the audience will like it... well I'll verify that after it's 1st weekend out this weekend :)

[solo-act]

....... guarantee the audience will like it... well I'll verify that after it's 1st weekend out this weekend :) I've logged 12 gigs on it (direct) since it arrived. I can definitely say the audience likes it. The crowd reaction to tunes with signature guitar tones is stronger than ever because the tones are the closest they've ever been....all of them too. The old school gear had decent tones, and cover songs that had a similar rig to the tube rig sounded strong.....but now everything sounds strong because each rig is there, and each rig can be optimized to run with the one guitar that comes to the gig, and if I want, each song can have its own rig and most do. The only limits I can find now are in my playing and the fact that I'm only using one guitar. That's plenty good enough for me.

[riffy]

I've logged 12 gigs on it (direct) since it arrived. I can definitely say the audience likes it. The crowd reaction to tunes with signature guitar tones is stronger than ever because the tones are the closest they've ever been....all of them too. The old school gear had decent tones, and cover songs that had a similar rig to the tube rig sounded strong.....but now everything sounds strong because each rig is there, and each rig can be optimized to run with the one guitar that comes to the gig, and if I want, each song can have its own rig and most do. The only limits I can find now are in my playing and the fact that I'm only using one guitar. That's plenty good enough for me.


This post hits the nail on the head. This has been my experience to the
nth degree.

[NoGlassNoClass]

Been watching this thread since it started...the gas pains are getting BAD!

What's the general consensus if I were to try something like this: use the AxeFX as the W/W of a W/D/W rig where the dry amp is a potent tube head (MkIV or a Triple Rec)? Will the amp-sims pale in comparison should I use them for a virtual 2- or 3-amp rig? Bypass the amp sims and just use it for the FX into a power amp?

[Scott Peterson]

Been watching this thread since it started...the gas pains are getting BAD!

What's the general consensus if I were to try something like this: use the AxeFX as the W/W of a W/D/W rig where the dry amp is a potent tube head (MkIV or a Triple Rec)? Will the amp-sims pale in comparison should I use them for a virtual 2- or 3-amp rig? Bypass the amp sims and just use it for the FX into a power amp?

Get it and try all those ideas. You have 30 days to make up your mind. It's worth the price for the effects alone.

[NoGlassNoClass]

You're killing me:BEER

[clunk]

I understand where scott and others here are coming from. It is still just a processor/modeler. If plugged into any one amp your mostly going to get the sound of the particular amp you plug this thing into. setting a preset for brownface is not going to give you an exact brownface tone with this unit plugged into a Marshall.
Where i personally see the value in this thing is for direct recording or direct live scenarios. It would probably do a very convincing "mic'd brownface" sound when plugged in direct.
I'm sure this thing would be an awsome processor even played through an amp nonetheless.
The main value of this thing is for diversity, especially for producers and session players. By the sounds of the review as well as the other users on here it would probably do the job for your avg. gigging musician as well.
I know i havent been impressed with alot of modelers out there. This unit seems like a "breakthrough" in that area only judging by what im reading here.
I may have to take "the plunge" and try one out for myself.
Thanks for the review Scott. Sounds like a very interesting unit.

Clunk

[guitarist58]

clips are just what they are...but I noticed something that I hear in most modelers and that is pick noise. That little 'kweek' sound, don't know how to describe it but it's there. To me, it's the trademark of digital devices. In a mix most folks won't care for sure, gigging is another story.


I think I hear that too! I thought maybe it's something to do with the way the compression is set, or maybe the sag? Anyway, I'm not sure I hear it in all the clips (also the many clips on the Axe-fx forum).

Either way, I'm on the list! I can't think of more bang-for-the-buck. Whether it's for an effects processor, additional "amps" for my setup or whatever. I have a very strong feeling it will become the main sound generator, and plan on eventually replacing most of my (nothing all that fancy) stuff. BTW, I plan on using my amp/speakers (a Peavey 50/50 stereo power amp w/EL84s into a 2x12 Avatar w/Eminence RW&Bs on one side and another 2x12 with greenback/1265 on the other) as well as the sends to the board (or maybe mic the cabs). I only play at my church, so it's the same room/sound system all the time. With other gear I've sometimes used the cab sims and sometimes not, as others have mentioned--just one more sound-shaping tool. I've used tube preamps, too, but on the modeling side I've managed to get what I think are pretty good tones from a Magicstomp, a Rocktron Replitone and a Behringer V-amp... Just one more reason I have no doubt the Axe-fx will MORE than suffice!! :drool :D

[Blueser]

I jumped on the list as well. I figured I might as well stop asking questions, and just try it for myself. What the hell....If I don't like it, I can send it back, or sell it to someone who wants to jump the waiting list.

I will probably pair it up wit a Mesa 2:90 power amp, and wire my THD cabinet in stereo with either a pair of EV12L reissues, or some Scholz speakers.

[GuitarGuy510]

I'm glad I'm on the list already! :AOK I should hopefully be stopping by a friend's house locally to check his out this weekend, I'm looking forward to hearing one in person already! :dude

[NeuroLogic]

Will it also work as a plug-in with a DAW? This would permit reprogramming after a track has been recorded. This is must for recording.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/misc/progress.gif

[Scott Peterson]

Will it also work as a plug-in with a DAW? This would permit reprogramming after a track has been recorded. This is must for recording.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/misc/progress.gif


You can use it for re-amping. Check the Axe-FX WIKI for details.

It won't function as a plug-in; but there has been talk by Cliff of creating plug-in's based on the Axe-FX algorithms.

[ToneKing]

What is the recommended midi foot controller for this unit??

[Scott Peterson]

What is the recommended midi foot controller for this unit??

Depends on your needs. Fractal is designing one that sounds utterly fascinating; but it won't be available till most likely Winter 2007-2008 at this juncture from what I can gather. It'll be modular, buy only what you need to do and the modules will all fit together and work as one. But it's in R&D and vaporware at this point.

The mac-daddy's of the midi controller world are the FX-1 from Axess Electronics in North America and the Skystrup controller (sp?) over in Europe. Then, you have the Rocktron All Access and then a range of any number of solutions from Voodoo's Ground Control to simple stuff from Tech 21 and Rolls. Behringer makes their product, but it is handicapped by needing a mod to be phantom powered and a third-party chip to handle programming (not related to the Axe-FX; but for any number of midi controlled stuff out there). Plus, it's from Behringer; I personally hate anything Behringer.

I started using the Rocktron Midi-Mate and it works fine, but you are really limited with only 5 CC controllers (for my application); so the All Access from Rocktron is going to work for me until Fractal gets their product out to market.

[mlj_gear]

I've got to say that I'm extremely skeptical about this thing, partially based on the clips --- all of them, including the "unofficial ones" --- although someone in this thread linked to some clips that sounded more realistic. One can say that clips don't capture the real experience, but one could say that about clips of any amp. And I've heard much better clips. There's a ton of gear out there to try and/or buy, so it only seems sensible to use clips as a reference point if you've got them. We've all got limited funds (or most of us do, anyway!), so we have to choose some things over others.

That said, if anyone on the board has one of these things and lives anywhere close to Rochester, NY. Let me know if you'd be willing to let me give it a whirl. I'd be willing to let you rock out with anything I have, too, of course.

[stratzrus]

I am running a Bruce Egnater designed Randall RT2/50 power amp running NOS Phillips 5751A (6L6 like) on one side and GT 6CA7 (EL34 like) on the other.

Scott (or anyone else with experience), if I decide to sell my POD XTL and get one of these I'd prefer not to have to get a new amp and special speakers.

How well would it work with the Atomic 112-50? (or more accurately, how well would the Atomic work with it?)

Thanks, stratzrus

(and thanks for your detailed posts and dedication to sharing what you've learned duing your many years of tone quest)

[Scott Peterson]

statzrus,

It works fantastic with the Atomic. I'd still have the Atomic too; but when I had the opportunity to grab the RT2/50 for even dollars and already had the cabs I've had, the advantage of a 112 combo didn't win the day. With the RT2/50 I can use EL34 or 6L6 type of power tubes (ones that I prefer to boot), as opposed to the dedicated 6L6 power amp in the Atomic. A switchable EL34/6L6 poweramp has been a dream of mine.

[stratzrus]

statzrus,

It works fantastic with the Atomic. I'd still have the Atomic too; but when I had the opportunity to grab the RT2/50 for even dollars and already had the cabs I've had, the advantage of a 112 combo didn't win the day. With the RT2/50 I can use EL34 or 6L6 type of power tubes (ones that I prefer to boot), as opposed to the dedicated 6L6 power amp in the Atomic. A switchable EL34/6L6 poweramp has been a dream of mine.

Scott,

It's good to know that if I get it I won't immediately have to make an amp change.

Also, do you (or anyone else) know how the waiting list works? Do you have to pay in full, just make a deposit, or just submit your name?

Thanks,

stratzrus

[will132]

No deposit required, just submit your name and you'll be put on the list. Make sure you specify which model you want.


jim

[Scott Peterson]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y287/spetersonmusic/07-2007-Guitar-Rig.jpg

[silencer eleven]

Scott, i'm really looking forward to some clips. are you gonna do them direct or are you going too mic a cab?

Evan

[rgsss14]

Scott -

That is a beautiful, compact rig. Glad you've ended your tone search (for now). Wish I could try one of these out somehow. I haven't sifted through all of the posts, but have you experimented with it in the effects loop of a regular amp?

[electronpirate]

Scott -

That is a beautiful, compact rig. Glad you've ended your tone search (for now). Wish I could try one of these out somehow. I haven't sifted through all of the posts, but have you experimented with it in the effects loop of a regular amp?

I have.

Ran it through a MOD50 loop, and it was fantastic. In the end, I just didn't need the tones from the Egnater. You can use the tones of each channel, or use the amp models of the AFX. I could do them just as well or better in the integrated AFX.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l262/electronpirate/GuitarRig1.jpg

-EP

[Scott Peterson]

Scott, i'm really looking forward to some clips. are you gonna do them direct or are you going too mic a cab?

Evan

Evan, I have a few direct sounds setup; and will use them I think, but will also mic up the cab because that's mainly how I have it setup. I am in flux right now with my presets because I am expecting an All Access midi controller and will be redoing all the presets for my rock/country gig to take advantage of it. I think I can cut some things live in the room next Monday; that's my first shot at being alone at home to do it. I might do some direct stuff sooner than that, just dealing with life right now and between work, life and getting my act together for a new band (working on a list of about 85 songs (20+ of them new to me) has all my attention and time.

Scott -

That is a beautiful, compact rig. Glad you've ended your tone search (for now). Wish I could try one of these out somehow. I haven't sifted through all of the posts, but have you experimented with it in the effects loop of a regular amp?

Thanks! I have not. I got it, dropped it in this rig you see - which I planned out and designed months ago especially for the Axe-FX. I want to mess around with it and a solid state amp too; but have no amps left to try it in. This is my only rig, other than a Roland Cube 60 and a Crate PowerBlock.

[exodus]

I second that, we need clips Scott!!

[silencer eleven]

Thanks alot for the quick response Scott. I'm definitely looking forward to hearing your clips because it seems you have similar taste in tone to mine.

Thanks

Evan

[jzgtrguy]

A coment about clips,

It seems to me that auditioning amps on Internet clips is a lot like trying to drink an extra think Chocolate Shake through a cocktail straw. You can get a taste of it but in the end your going to be really frustrated. There is no substitute for a live audition. But they do help. Scott......if you post some clips how about some of just the amps with no effects........nothing..........just the amps. Fenderish, Voxish, Boogie, Marshall etc. If the amps cannot stand on there on everything else is just a bandaid. I don't use a lot of effects but if the amps are as good as you say they are.........
Out
Jeff

[Lacking Talent]

I can run it... with a solid state power amp into a full range cabinet.

Can any Axe-FX owners/users that run theirs in the configuration Scott has described above share recommendations for SS power amps and full range cabs?

[jazzguitarplay]

any place to try em out? any stores selling them? a live test drive would do the trick fo me?

[papersoul]

Doe sit mate well with a tube power amp? Does it really blow away the POD and Line 6 Vetta/Zenterra - that whole crowd? I got away from modelling and went back to tubes.

I am on the fence about buying an Egnater MOD head for the variety and versatility....plus I never found I needed tons of effects, etc. I also hate tweaking and finding tones that turned me off from digital. Is it the same with the Fractal?

For me, lately the best has been the H&K Switchblade with somesimple effects but I am also looking at some VHTs, Diezels and the Egnater gear to run with some basic effects - less is more? Haha...

I just like simplicity in gear, but I do hear Fractal is going to be releasing a head version so no need for a separate power amp.

[Scott Peterson]

any place to try em out? any stores selling them? a live test drive would do the trick fo me?

No, no stores are stocking it. Unless you can find an owner near you willing to let you check it out. Fractal is a startup company, built in house in the US and literally as boutique as it comes. A test drive would probably do it for you; but you have to either try one after buying it (you get a 30 day trial) or from trying someone else's out.

Doe sit mate well with a tube power amp? Does it really blow away the POD and Line 6 Vetta/Zenterra - that whole crowd? I got away from modelling and went back to tubes.

I am on the fence about buying an Egnater MOD head for the variety and versatility....plus I never found I needed tons of effects, etc. I also hate tweaking and finding tones that turned me off from digital. Is it the same with the Fractal?

For me, lately the best has been the H&K Switchblade with somesimple effects but I am also looking at some VHTs, Diezels and the Egnater gear to run with some basic effects - less is more? Haha...

I just like simplicity in gear, but I do hear Fractal is going to be releasing a head version so no need for a separate power amp.

This is a quote from a producer on a commercial jingle I did; he sent this after the fact and it surprised me because I didn't ask his opinion at all. I did say that I cut this direct to him in my studio and FTP'd him the wav files. This was his email to me after the final mixdown:

That box you tracked with is the first "not-an-actual-amp" that I have heard that can sit in a mix with "real" amps and bass. I've listened to the tracks and the mix over and over. In fact, I went back and forth between my Roccaforte track and your Marshall track, and they both sounded equally real to my ear.

So basically, if you told me you'd recorded a Marshall and a Soldano, I'd have believed you (I'd also have thought you did a great job miking the amps!).

I'm predicting that thing will become a studio staple as soon as the word gets out.

[MikeyG]

If anyone in the Raleigh area is good at making clips, they can record mine. I've got some great patches set up ...

[papersoul]

Thanks Scott,

What is the Randall RT/250...tube power amp?

I am not sure I want to go down the rack path nor the digital path because I hat tweaking patches/cabinet sims, etc. The older I get I tend to appreciate all analog, straight ahead gear. That is why I kind of settles on an Egnater MOD 50 head and some pedals for effects, that's it. Everything is in real time and no tweaking patches. Again, this is me! We are all different but I will say Fractal Audio has gotten my interest and I will be interested in that amp head they are producing. I would even consider the preamp with a good tube power amp if and when I feel like a change. Right now, I just enjoy straight up tube heads.

I do have the H&K Switchblade but it may become a backup to the Egnater.

One thign I do miss when I had a digital head was the one floorboard with my Vetta! I know Fractal is working on a floorboard as well to incorporate everything. Only thing I hated was all the options and tweaking.

Rich

[electronpirate]

Thanks Scott,
I am not sure I want to go down the rack path nor the digital path because I hat tweaking patches/cabinet sims, etc. The older I get I tend to appreciate all analog, straight ahead gear. That is why I kind of settles on an Egnater MOD 50 head and some pedals for effects, that's it. Everything is in real time and no tweaking patches. Again, this is me! We are all different but I will say Fractal Audio has gotten my interest and I will be interested in that amp head they are producing. I would even consider the preamp with a good tube power amp if and when I feel like a change. Right now, I just enjoy straight up tube heads.

Rich

This CAN be for you if you want that. It's a little less straightforward, but you get great tone just tweaking the standard knobs (as it were.) I loathe too much tweaking as well, and it is VERY nice to dial in a simple patch in a minute, and have it sound great. TUBE tone.

If you're not into FX tho, you may be in for overkill here, and I'd probably get the MOD50. I personally would have bought it just for all the amp models alone, but the FX are incredible, and I'm starting to really dig in now and play with things like vibe, stompboxes, and kooky delays.

EP

[Scott Peterson]

Rich,

No issues here. The Randall RT/2 is Bruce's design and it's a midi switchable tube power amp. I've posted a lot about it, and you can find lots of details on it around the web; especially in the mod centered forums around Bruce's preamps and amps.

Fractal has mentioned he might at some point do a head or a combo, but I am pretty certain those are a long way away at this point.

Scott

Thanks Scott,

What is the Randall RT/250...tube power amp?

I am not sure I want to go down the rack path nor the digital path because I hat tweaking patches/cabinet sims, etc. The older I get I tend to appreciate all analog, straight ahead gear. That is why I kind of settles on an Egnater MOD 50 head and some pedals for effects, that's it. Everything is in real time and no tweaking patches. Again, this is me! We are all different but I will say Fractal Audio has gotten my interest and I will be interested in that amp head they are producing. I would even consider the preamp with a good tube power amp if and when I feel like a change. Right now, I just enjoy straight up tube heads.

I do have the H&K Switchblade but it may become a backup to the Egnater.

One thign I do miss when I had a digital head was the one floorboard with my Vetta! I know Fractal is working on a floorboard as well to incorporate everything. Only thing I hated was all the options and tweaking.

Rich

[electronpirate]

A coment about clips,

It seems to me that auditioning amps on Internet clips is a lot like trying to drink an extra think Chocolate Shake through a cocktail straw. You can get a taste of it but in the end your going to be really frustrated. There is no substitute for a live audition. But they do help. Scott......if you post some clips how about some of just the amps with no effects........nothing..........just the amps. Fenderish, Voxish, Boogie, Marshall etc. If the amps cannot stand on there on everything else is just a bandaid. I don't use a lot of effects but if the amps are as good as you say they are.........
Out
Jeff

Smart man here.

Clips are worthless for the most part. Getting a 'little' of what it has to offer is pointless. And when people know what it is, they tend to drop their own ideas of what it's going to sound like before they even hear it (ooh! A modeler! I'll listen for 'fizz' or 'digital buzz' or any number of things that probably have nothing to do with the amp itself...recording technique, poweramp, conversion to mp3, whatever.)

Before I purchased Jeff, I wanted the same thing. Just amps, no FX, no nothin'. I remember finding a few of them over at Huge Racks Inc, but not alot. In the end I bought anyway, and have been MORE than satisfied.

[papersoul]

I would really consider one if they come out with an all in one solution like the Line 6 Vetta, and I know eventually they want that in a head.

The Zinky Superfly looks interesting as well but do not believe that has any effects. I still will not rule out the Fractakl gear some day!

Right now I just like amp heads and pedals.

[Frank Prince]

It's a good point. One that has been debated ad-nauseum over at the AFX board.

It's nearly impossible if you run a AXEFx-poweramp-speaker situation to go from Fender to Death Metal COMPLETELY convincingly. A clean power amp will go a long way, but there is no way around speakers. To make the MOST of the flexibility, you'd have to go direct. Use the cab sims, whole 9 yards. Most of us running this like the feel of an amp behind us, so we run the rig rather than direct. I'd try some pretty neutral speakers, which would help, but you'd probably have to run 3 different speaker cabs to get every sound perfectly....pointless. Some have tried the full range PA speaker behind them, but it still seems like kissing your sister.

In a way tho, this makes the point. We FINALLY have a solution that gets the amp part right, and now we're quibbling over speaker choice.

EPActually, using the Randall rt2/50 or something similar would solve this issue. You can set the Randall so you have the 6L6 and EL34 sides each drive a separate cabinet. Run one to a closed 2x12 or 4x12 with greenbacks or V30s and the other to an openbacked 2x12 with Jensens or Webers and Viola!, you have your Twin and your Marshall/Mesa/Soldano all in one rig.

[Crunchyriff]

Scott & Drizzt-

You two pretty much pushed me over the edge regarding the Axe-FX. FWIW I just put together a modern, tubeless rig for convenient ( read: carry-on) air travel. It's based on the SasnsAmp PSA1.1, and the TC G-System. Our band uses the Aviom system w/IEM's, and I'm using a QSC HPR122i powered wedge in front of me for guitar/amp interaction- you know... feedback and what not- plus I still get that nice ambient guitar sound onstage, without bleed-through issues. The sound is so real, I sold all my tube (stage amps) & cabs.

Now this AXE-FX thingie comes up. Gotta have one.

[solo-act]

Scott & Drizzt-

You two pretty much pushed me over the edge regarding the Axe-FX. FWIW I just put together a modern, tubeless rig for convenient ( read: carry-on) air travel. It's based on the SasnsAmp PSA1.1, and the TC G-System. Our band uses the Aviom system w/IEM's, and I'm using a QSC HPR122i powered wedge in front of me for guitar/amp interaction- you know... feedback and what not- plus I still get that nice ambient guitar sound onstage, without bleed-through issues. The sound is so real, I sold all my tube (stage amps) & cabs.

Now this AXE-FX thingie comes up. Gotta have one. Smart man.:AOK
As I told Scott as he was getting ready for his, I'd recommend putting on a crash helmet the first few days with it so your head doesn't explode. The possibilities and ways you can build & shape the great tones within will blow your mind.

Until something better is created, its the holy grail for the application you described.

[bluesmostly]

Some help with midi controllers...

I have never used a processor of any kind or midi devices and in looking at some of these controller options I have a couple more q's. I imagine wanting to use a simple set up with the Axe-fx, something like 5-6 preset amp tones, 4-6 effects like delay and reverb etc that I can switch on and off, a wah, and an overall mute switch and tuner.... I imagine from looking at the different controller models that this is pretty simple but I am not sure which type would suit my needs best, the wah, mute/tuner option are very important. Also, does the Axe-fx support phantom power (7 pin midi switch)? Can you recommend a set-up that you think would work best for me! Thanks guys!

[Scott Peterson]

Recorded direct with my Melancon Custom Artist; just tossed this down for lunch today. Nothing fancy.

Compared to other clips from me (they are still up on the Soundclick site) including some stellar amps from GT, Germino from years past, this thing sounds damn good to me.

This is the patch I throw together first thing when I was cutting a commercial jingle; no effects, nothing but a tweaked JCM800 amp and Brit/20 412 cab. Playing isn't fancy, just getting the point across for the dynamics and body of what you are hearing. No patch changes, nothing added.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=339733

[Tony Foran]

How about a simple movie camera clip ala Eddie Berman? He seems to get a good representation of the tone the amps deliver.

[Scott Peterson]

How about a simple movie camera clip ala Eddie Berman? He seems to get a good representation of the tone the amps deliver.

If you have a digital camcorder it is. I don't.

Recorded clip up. I'll do more as I can; very busy with real life stuff right now is all.

[AndrewSimon]

Recorded direct with my Melancon Custom Artist; just tossed this down for lunch today. Nothing fancy.

Compared to other clips from me (they are still up on the Soundclick site) including some stellar amps from GT, Germino from years past, this thing sounds damn good to me.

This is the patch I throw together first thing when I was cutting a commercial jingle; no effects, nothing but a tweaked JCM800 amp and Brit/20 412 cab. Playing isn't fancy, just getting the point across for the dynamics and body of what you are hearing. No patch changes, nothing added.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=339733



Sounds good
Next time I would love to hear some of those Dumble models:crazy

:AOK:AOK

[guitarist58]

Thanks, Scott! Great to hear it more "raw" (or "dry") with dynamics :AOK

[jzgtrguy]

Smart man here.

Clips are worthless for the most part. Getting a 'little' of what it has to offer is pointless. And when people know what it is, they tend to drop their own ideas of what it's going to sound like before they even hear it (ooh! A modeler! I'll listen for 'fizz' or 'digital buzz' or any number of things that probably have nothing to do with the amp itself...recording technique, poweramp, conversion to mp3, whatever.)

Before I purchased Jeff, I wanted the same thing. Just amps, no FX, no nothin'. I remember finding a few of them over at Huge Racks Inc, but not alot. In the end I bought anyway, and have been MORE than satisfied.

Thanks Scott, I email Fractal Audio and they informed me that they have no dealer net work. I think I read somewhere in this mega thread that they are offering a 30 money back gaurantee........Is that correct?
Thanks for answering all the questions.

Out
Jeff

[jzgtrguy]

Hey Scott,

One more thing.........For a guitarist looking for a live rig does it make any sense to up trade to the ultra? Is the extra five bones worth it? Would guitarist need the added effects?
Thanks,

Jeff

[59model]

Scott changes amps like his underware. Last month it was a Line 6 Pod XTL through an Atomic, and this month it`s this fractual gizmo through some different poweramp, and a few months ago it was a Germino, a Bogner Shiva, etc, etc. If folks want to follow the bandwagon, that`s cool. I`d suggest staying with what sounds good to you. And the price of this thing is on par with some great amps. Just my humble opinion, for what it`s worth, but you can do your own reasearch on what I said.
Good Luck,
Pete

[will132]

Scott changes amps like his underware. Last month it was a Line 6 Pod XTL through an Atomic, and this month it`s this fractual gizmo through some different poweramp, and a few months ago it was a Germino, a Bogner Shiva, etc, etc. If folks want to follow the bandwagon, that`s cool. I`d suggest staying with what sounds good to you. And the price of this thing is on par with some great amps. Just my humble opinion, for what it`s worth, but you can do your own reasearch on what I said.
Good Luck,
Pete


Wow, now that I know this I need to get off the waiting list, nevermind the clip he posted. :rolleyes:

[tvegas99]

wow...that clip sounds great to me, thanks for all the info Scott, I can't wait to hear more!!

someone just posted a Cowtipper, Xctasy, VHT Deliverance and Matchless Independance up for sale

they are keeping their Axe-FX....hhhhhmmmmmmm

should be an interesting couple of months!!

[Scott Peterson]

Thanks Scott, I email Fractal Audio and they informed me that they have no dealer net work. I think I read somewhere in this mega thread that they are offering a 30 money back gaurantee........Is that correct?
Thanks for answering all the questions.

Out
Jeff
Yes.
Hey Scott,

One more thing.........For a guitarist looking for a live rig does it make any sense to up trade to the ultra? Is the extra five bones worth it? Would guitarist need the added effects?
Thanks,

Jeff
Not me. Depends on what you do live.
Scott changes amps like his underware. Last month it was a Line 6 Pod XTL through an Atomic, and this month it`s this fractual gizmo through some different poweramp, and a few months ago it was a Germino, a Bogner Shiva, etc, etc. If folks want to follow the bandwagon, that`s cool. I`d suggest staying with what sounds good to you. And the price of this thing is on par with some great amps. Just my humble opinion, for what it`s worth, but you can do your own reasearch on what I said.
Good Luck,
Pete
November 2006 - April 2007 = POD XT/Atomic rig
November 2005 - September 2006 = Germino based rigs
2000 - 2004 = Bogner Shiva based rigs.

Thankfully I change my underwear a little bit more frequently. Thanks for memorizing some of my gear. I don't drive bandwagons, I do share my experiences and talk shop; much like a lot of other guys. I try to add context and do not hype things. If you don't agree with me (I'll gladly use whatever gear is right for the job at any point and if a situation comes up; ie. playing in a funk covers band in 2004.... and the Bogner Shiva is not the right tool for the job, I will change the equipment to fit the gig) then you can use whatever you like. Doesn't matter to me if anyone else agrees or uses what I use; I don't belong to any 'clubs' where 'my gear is cool, buy it and be like me because my gear's best' if that's where you are coming from.

If you are doing one thing over 10 years of playing and have the gear that fits the gig, then there is indeed no reason to look at/consider other gear. If you, like me, have been trying to stretch out and play in other genres and needed rigs to fit the gig; well, then TGP would be the place to discuss that growth and journey.

Thanks for sharing your opinion and keep rocking whatever gear you dig. Peace.

[mainsale]

But tell us Scott, what do you really think of it? :D

[Scott Peterson]

But tell us Scott, what do you really think of it?

Probably my greatest strength and at the same time my greatest weakness; I care enough to tell folks what I really think. It's who and what I am about. Folks can, and should, draw their own conclusions, not base them on mine. I don't think 99.9% of folks even care what the hell I think; but I would hope that folks would get hip to what I am saying and if the rig fits their gig, check it out. To each their own! :D

[mlj_gear]

Recorded direct with my Melancon Custom Artist; just tossed this down for lunch today. Nothing fancy.

Compared to other clips from me (they are still up on the Soundclick site) including some stellar amps from GT, Germino from years past, this thing sounds damn good to me.

This is the patch I throw together first thing when I was cutting a commercial jingle; no effects, nothing but a tweaked JCM800 amp and Brit/20 412 cab. Playing isn't fancy, just getting the point across for the dynamics and body of what you are hearing. No patch changes, nothing added.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=339733

That really is a nice clip, and I'm glad it doesn't have any effects on it. It still doesn't make me want to plunk down a grand and a half for this thing just yet, but it does make me want to try really hard to find somewhere to play one.

I guess another key "test" for me would be a Deluxe Reverb-ish patch. It is really hard to model the sparkle of such a beast. Someone posted a clip of something like a BFDR or BFT earlier in this thread, and IMNASHO, it sounded just terrible. If you get a chance, Scott, i'd love to here you do one!

[HassanBinSober]

This whole clip thing baffles me. No offense to anyone that has ever posted a clip, but most clips are not recorded in a way that tells you anything except the fact that the amp powers up and produces sound.

Of course this Fractal unit is going to sound at least as good as all of the clips we have available to us and of course they are only as good as the quality of the way in which they were recorded.

Crap equipment can be made to sound better than it is if recorded well and good equipment can sound like ass if recorded improperly, so what's the point of it all?

If you think it might work for you based on a first-hand review by someone you trust, has features that you might actually use, and sells at a price-point that fits your budget, then buy one, play through it, and decide for yourself.

[Tony Foran]

This whole clip thing baffles me. No offense to anyone that has ever posted a clip, but most clips are not recorded in a way that tells you anything except the fact that the amp powers up and produces sound.

Of course this Fractal unit is going to sound at least as good as all of the clips we have available to us and of course they are only as good as the quality of the way in which they were recorded.

Crap equipment can be made to sound better than it is if recorded well and good equipment can sound like ass if recorded improperly, so what's the point of it all?

If you think it might work for you based on a first-hand review by someone you trust, has features that you might actually use, and sells at a price-point that fits your budget, then buy one, play through it, and decide for yourself.

These are simply done and sound pretty good to me.
http://www.indoorstorm.com/Egnater_Mod_50_With_Modules_Video_Review-n-187.html

[donbarzini]

These are simply done and sound pretty good to me.
http://www.indoorstorm.com/Egnater_Mod_50_With_Modules_Video_Review-n-187.html

Those are the clips that led me to get one of those, and it even sounds better in person :AOK I still have an Axe-Fx coming as well, I plan to use it in conjunction with the Egnater as well as digital straight in to my computer.

[bluesmostly]

Foot contollers - I have never used a processor of any kind or midi devices and in looking at some of these controller options I have a couple of q's. I imagine wanting to use a simple set up with the Axe-fx, something like 5-6 preset amp tones, 4-6 effects like delay and reverb etc that I can switch on and off, a wah, and an overall mute switch and tuner.... I imagine from looking at the different controller models that this is pretty simple but I am not sure which type would suit my needs best, the wah, mute/tuner option are very important. Also, does the Axe-fx support phantom power (7 pin midi switch)? Can you reccomend a set-up that you think would work best for me, thanks guys!

[Scott Peterson]

These are simply done and sound pretty good to me.
http://www.indoorstorm.com/Egnater_Mod_50_With_Modules_Video_Review-n-187.html

Tony,

He's *selling* something. I am not; just sayin'.

[Scott Peterson]

Foot contollers - I have never used a processor of any kind or midi devices and in looking at some of these controller options I have a couple of q's. I imagine wanting to use a simple set up with the Axe-fx, something like 5-6 preset amp tones, 4-6 effects like delay and reverb etc that I can switch on and off, a wah, and an overall mute switch and tuner.... I imagine from looking at the different controller models that this is pretty simple but I am not sure which type would suit my needs best, the wah, mute/tuner option are very important. Also, does the Axe-fx support phantom power (7 pin midi switch)? Can you reccomend a set-up that you think would work best for me, thanks guys!

Everything but the tuner on the footpedal is available from a lot of places; Behringer (blah! I hate them) to Rocktron's Midi-Mate; Digital Control from Voodoo Labs, etc..

Fractal is in R&D with his own; it'll be modular, there fore affordable for what you are asking. It'll be winter (guessing!) till then though.

[thegame]

Recorded direct with my Melancon Custom Artist; just tossed this down for lunch today. Nothing fancy.

Compared to other clips from me (they are still up on the Soundclick site) including some stellar amps from GT, Germino from years past, this thing sounds damn good to me.

This is the patch I throw together first thing when I was cutting a commercial jingle; no effects, nothing but a tweaked JCM800 amp and Brit/20 412 cab. Playing isn't fancy, just getting the point across for the dynamics and body of what you are hearing. No patch changes, nothing added.

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandID=339733

Damn that sounds like the real deal. Good job:AOK

I'd love to hear a clip with the power amp, cab sims off, just the preamp "models" going thru an actual tube power amp/cabinet.

[Tony Foran]

Tony,

He's *selling* something. I am not; just sayin'.

Well,sure he is but I don't understand how that makes any difference. I bet if you were in the same room with him,it would sound real close to the clips.

[Dennis E.]

If anyone in the Raleigh area is good at making clips, they can record mine. I've got some great patches set up ...


Hey Mike,

We could do some direct recording at my house. I've got a new DAW that would probably work very well.

I'd be real interested in hearing this thing.

You've got my email. Shoot me one, or PM me when you are in town and we can arrange it.

Best to ya,
Dennis E.

[solo-act]

Well,sure he is but I don't understand how that makes any difference. I bet if you were in the same room with him,it would sound real close to the clips. NO...... don't get me wrong, it'll sound good. But your ears are NOT a microphone. You're hearing a microphone hearing a cabinet. When you're in the same room with him, you're not hearing a microphone at all and therefore its a completely different thing than listening to a recording. It'll sound very different than the clips VERY different......it'll probably sound a whole lot better because you're experiencing it in person. This is part of the "existential crisis" of clips that a lot of people forget.

[Scott Peterson]

Well,sure he is but I don't understand how that makes any difference. I bet if you were in the same room with him,it would sound real close to the clips.

Hey, I would if I could. I said before and I'll say it again, I don't have a digital camcorder or a video capture board to use with my analog one.

[MikeyG]

wow...that clip sounds great to me, thanks for all the info Scott, I can't wait to hear more!!

someone just posted a Cowtipper, Xctasy, VHT Deliverance and Matchless Independance up for sale

they are keeping their Axe-FX....hhhhhmmmmmmm

should be an interesting couple of months!!

Don't read into that. I never said the Axe-FX was better than those amps. It's not. It's just that I have very little time to play anymore, with young kids, and traveling for work. It's just a practical thing for me to do, why have all that expensive gear sitting around collecting dust?

[MikeyG]

Hey Mike,

We could do some direct recording at my house. I've got a new DAW that would probably work very well.

I'd be real interested in hearing this thing.

You've got my email. Shoot me one, or PM me when you are in town and we can arrange it.

Best to ya,
Dennis E.

I've been talking with Jason Barker about getting together. It's a matter of finding the time. When I'm traveling all week, my weekends are devoted to the wife and kids. Life gets in the way of fun sometimes :)

[localmotion411]

What really bugs me about a lot of the discussions about amps here on TGP and what a lot of people don't seem to mention/understand about amps is the FEEL. I have played amps that sound fantastic but are flat and sterile and feel like crap to play, and I have played amps that didn't necessarily sound that great but the feel was excellent.

I think that is the appeal and the draw for many to the Trainwreck amps and clones. According to most, the feel is fantastic. The more you dig, the more you squeeze out of it.

This is what can't be captured by a microphone. And this is why we have to listen to other players who have exercised the gear in different settings, live and in the studio, and trust their judgment to an extent. I live in Mississippi, a land devoid of most of the amps I read/hear about here on TGP. So, when deciding on an amp purchase, I must listen to others advice about what they like about the amps and how they feel.

Some say the 65Amps clips are nice but don't necessarily sound that unique or phenomenal. I, for the most part, agree. What sets 65's apart is the feel you get when playing it in person. The swirly texture and thick 3D harmonics are not something that a mic can always capture. But it is what will make the amp stand out at a live gig. Great amps are the ones that sound and feel so good that they pull feeling and emotion out of the player.

If someone like Scott Peterson, who knows good tone and good amps, says the AxeFX is and sounds fantastic, I'm going to open up two big non-skeptical ears and listen. I agree, the clips sound great. But if the AxeFX amp sims feel like your playing a real tube amp, that is the kicker for me. The sag, the chewiness, the greasiness, that we all want out of our amps, if that is present in the AxeFX, I may just have to get one.