SM57 vs. Royer 121 clips anyone?

[WahmBoomAh]

Hi .,....is anyone so full of community love here (OR with something in their HD) that they could post something with these 2 mics ? I`d love to hear the difference on a clean to semi clean guitar ..... thanks ,Paul

[R.D.]

I'm not sure it's what you're looking for, but Steve Stevens did a Badger clip for John Suhr with that exact mic combination on a Bogner 1 x 12" cube with a Celestion Gold.

You can get the clip at Celestions website or John Suhrs ....

Good Luck !

[wolf9309]

no clips onhand, but IMO the Royer is absolutely amazing used in combination with a 57, but is weak on it's own. try em as a team instead of one or the other. you won't regret it.

[louderock]

Agreed. Most of the time, you would want to use a Royer in conjunction with a 57 or some other mic. By itself, the Royer is pretty dark sounding. It is wonderful a capturing the low end of an amp and is really smooth sounding. Works great with a 57.

[Ritualee]

I borrowed a 121- still have it here- and I could not get a cool sound with that thing and a 57 together. Not cool at all. I looked at the royer webpage about positioning suggestions and what not- still nothing. I use a 421 and a 57 as my usual combo and I very much like that, but I was expecting great things from the royer combo. I had a lot of phasing issues at first, but even when I resolved that I still got an unnatural, not happening sound.

Any thoughts?

[cochese]

I own the Royer and 57 and tend to use both. I would never say the Royer is weak on it's own. It captures the way your amp really sounds. We are just used to hearing guitars recorded with more "sizzle" to cut through a mix much the way so many vocals are recorded with condenser mics for the same reason. The Royer also takes well to eq'ong. So I would say it would be much easier to get the Royer to cut through like a 57 than to make a 57 sound as big as the Royer.

This is not to say a 57 is bad by itself. Some of the greatest guitar sounds of all time were recorded with this mic but this was in the days of tape. Digital needs more help. Big iron micpres can only do so much. The only negative thing I can say about the Royer is that if you want to get more air and position the mic back at 18" to 2' the amp needs to have some volume. I track fairly quietly and use the Royer fairly close which can translate to less air and more low end. You will need to pkay with it a bit more than you would with a 57.

My CD was recently finished and most of the guitar tracks were recorded with the Royer/57 or Royer/Sennheiser 906 combo. If you want to check back clips should be available on my website and MySpace or CD Baby soon.

[WahmBoomAh]

Thanks to all.... when I get a minute , I`ll check out Cochese fo sho .

I most use a 57 and / or a Groove tubes AM62(u67 flavor) or GT44 (sdc pencil tube)
I like the 44 ....just wonder what I`m missing with the 121 ....and the 57 is a great reference to compare any gtr mic to ....keep `em coming gents !

[Dutchman]

Cochese, I'm interested in the Sennheiser 906 Royer clips.
Could you provide a link?

I trialed many guitar mics and now I'm using the 906 and a KSM32. I still have the 57's though. After 30 years they're like family :)

[cochese]

They are not really clips but tracks from my CD which was just released. There are 4 instrumental tracks on the CD which will make it pretty easy to hear the guitar.

They were recorded with the Royer 121 Great River preamp and the Sennheiser 906 and Groove Tubes Brick mic pre. CD baby should have the clips up soon and I'm in the process of putting them on my website and MYspace.

If you want to check back just PM me and I'll send you the links when availabale.

[Jet Age Eric]

I've never had a problem using the Royer alone. I usually hard pan a Royer and a U87 if I'm doing stereo, but I've had great luck using the Royer solo. If it's too dark, you could add eq at the amp or try your mic placement (straight on the cone, which is what I usually do). -E

[azimuth]

there is a royer demo cd (hosted by steve albini) which compares a 57 and r121 on distorted guitar.

[cochese]

I promised before to put up clips from my CD that use these mics and haven't as of yet but you can hear them at CD baby if you like. (I'm not trying to hawk my CD it's just that they haven't put the clips up on my website yet.
http://cdbaby.com/cd/chrisdelis

The guitars on the songs Mojo,Smokey & One Girl One Guitar are the Royer R121 and Sennheiser 906 combo. The guitars on Sunday Dreds Sprocket and Keep On Movin are the Royer R121 and Shure 57 combo. The tracks are recorded as mono and there is no eq but there is some verb and delay.

[elambo]

This is not to say a 57 is bad by itself. Some of the greatest guitar sounds of all time were recorded with this mic but this was in the days of tape. Digital needs more help.

Some would say digital IS the help, especially in reference to higher fidelity, an advantage the Royer has over the 57. If these two mics are being compared in this way, what do you mean when you say that digital needs more help? Do you mean that the recording chain needs more help BECAUSE of digital? Sorry, a bit confused here.

[Bassomatic]

I usually hard pan a Royer and a U87 if I'm doing stereo...

On what sort of source? For dirty tones? Seems an odd approach (but you never now, eh?).

[cochese]

Some would say digital IS the help, especially in reference to higher fidelity, an advantage the Royer has over the 57. If these two mics are being compared in this way, what do you mean when you say that digital needs more help? Do you mean that the recording chain needs more help BECAUSE of digital? Sorry, a bit confused here.

Analog tape imparts a sonic texture to everything including guitar. Guitar sounds benefit from this coloration which is why there are tape emulation devices out there like Empirical Labs Fatso Jr. I've recorded on just about every format over the last 30 years and I can tell you for a fact that getting great guitar sounds on tape was always much easier than getting them on digital.

Higher fidelity might be nice for acoustic intruments or vocals but try a high fidelity speaker on guitar like by using a PA speaker in place of a guitar cab and see what happens. Tape can be slammed when recording and that will give you "tape compression." I'm not saying digital is bad by any means. It is certainly more convenient to record with but part of the reason for digital is that it is cheaper. To have 24 tracks of digital audio these days just about anyone can afford it. 24 tracks of 2" analog would cost you thousands.

[Figher53]

I've heard both the 57 and the 121. I tried them each on their own and together. To be brutally honest, with a decent mic pre you could use any of the configurations and capture a very decent sound.

If you're really happy with your guitar tone, can get a good variety of tones from your rig, and have the extra cash lying around, the 121 can be a good investment. If not, I think the money's better spent on the source.