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View Full Version : Best Speaker for Deluxe Reverb?


louderock
08-03-2007, 02:09 PM
I have a 1968 Deluxe Reverb. The old speaker was pretty worn so I replaced it with the Weber recommendation. Don't dig it. Kinda buzzy sounding. What do you like for a Deluxe?

LP26
08-03-2007, 02:17 PM
I have an Eminence Cannabis Rex in mine and love it.

Check out the Tone Tubby speakers as well.

JamminJoe
08-03-2007, 02:50 PM
I had the same feelings about a weber 12F150 in my 73 SFDR. After a very long break in period, it now sounds great. Vintage vibe with a very nice glassy top. In my case, I'm guessing it must have taken in the neighborhood of about 50 hours of loud volumes before the buzziness and uneveness in sound disappeared and was replaced by a very smooth, vintage, and glassy sound. I had a 50 watt with light doping. A lot of effort, but well worth it in the end.

The DR actually sounded very good with a vintage 30 - although not vintage-y. I have celestions in my marshall and vox however and wanted something different for the DR.

strangec
08-03-2007, 03:24 PM
I like the 12F150 with my Dr Z Z28 (kind of a Deluxe-ish origin I think). In any case it sounds very nice to my hears.

I tried a Emi Red White & Blue and it was too bassy for my taste.

2x6L6
08-03-2007, 03:37 PM
I felt the 12F150 was too smooth to my ears, so went with the 12A150 (AlNiCo). Love it. Killer tone. Really brings out the rippability of the Deluxe. Bottom end is really tight.

SG John
08-03-2007, 04:05 PM
I have a Celestion Silver Series Classic 30 in my '70 Deluxe Reverb. I love it.

4styx
08-03-2007, 05:51 PM
G12H 30 Anniv if you like that 70's sound.Most of the reviews at Harmony Central recommend these as well.:AOK

VintageToneGuy
08-03-2007, 05:54 PM
I had a Deluxe Reverb Reissue that I put a Celestion Greenback in and loved alot. Two words describe it: Warm and Woody with relatively early breakup. Exactly what I was after.

vtg

mtlin
08-03-2007, 08:46 PM
I like the Jensen re-issue that comes with the reissue. Mine is nicely broken in and sounds very nice. Not ice-picky or shrill at all.

SuperReverb2
08-03-2007, 08:54 PM
Ted's speakers always seem to sound a little buzzy (fizzy) until they get well broken in, (especially if you're "driving" them or using distortion) but once they break in, they are some of the BEST speakers I've ever heard/used. They DO need time though to sound their best. You can't go wrong with anything Ted recommends, provided you're willing to give it the proper amount of time to give up the REAL tonal goods.
With that said, I just finished some tonals trials with an Eminence Cannabis Rex, and IMHO that speaker would be ideal in a Deluxe Reverb/Blues Junior style amp. To my ears it certainly doesn't need the break in time of a Weber either.

:)

bosstone
08-03-2007, 10:36 PM
Everyone's speakers need to be broken in.

porterburst
08-04-2007, 12:57 AM
JBL D120F or Reverend Alltone 12.

Fenderosa
08-04-2007, 09:52 PM
I have a Celestion Greenback in my 72 Deluxe Reverb and agree with VintageToneGuy's description.

sfarnell
08-04-2007, 10:10 PM
JBL D120F or Reverend Alltone 12.

+1 on the JBL D120F. The ultimate speaker.

rhythmrocker
08-04-2007, 10:38 PM
+1 on the JBL D120F. The ultimate speaker.

Here's what I got going for my 65-66 deluxe reverb: I put in a 2X10" baffle with 2-10F150 Webers = more speaker area than a 12" and punchy as heck. BTW - did you know that Ted will break those speakers in for you if you ask?
There's so many options!

Masa
08-04-2007, 11:41 PM
I also have a 2x10 baffle for my 67 DR. I just swap the baffle every once in a while. When I use 2x10, I use two Weber P10Q (I forgot what they're called now.) Sounds more 3D than 1x12.

When I use 1x12, I use either vintage C12N (very bright) or Texas Heat (a little too dark).

JES1680
08-05-2007, 07:20 AM
In my 66 I liked a Mojotone BV30 great for loud breakup. Canibix Rex overall a very nice speaker. However my favorite is a Jensen Vibranto which appears to be a 69. Great Speaker for the Deluxe Reverb.

Dan Gardner
08-05-2007, 07:32 AM
I really like the well broken-in Weber C12N (called 12F150 these days) that I had in my DRRI. I swapped it out to try an Emi Cannabis Rex a while ago, and I think I'm going to swap back. The Emi's a great speaker for this amp, but the Weber was better for my taste.

tybone
08-06-2007, 06:29 PM
Tone Tubby Alnico. Thanks.

LB

fast ricky love
08-06-2007, 06:33 PM
On a budget: Cannabis Rex. Balanced, warm, no ice pick.

Best: JBL D120f. Adds juicy mids the amps needs. Awesome.

D.G.
08-06-2007, 07:09 PM
I had a CRex in my DRRI for awhile, and while it's a fine (and loud!) speaker, it made the deluxe sound a little less "Fender" than I wanted. I have a Lil Texas Neo in right now and it sounds good and the weight savings are huge!

leofenderbender
08-06-2007, 07:32 PM
Weber Blue Dog Ceramic.

quinnamps
08-06-2007, 07:51 PM
Tone Tubby Alnico. Thanks.
Second that emotion.

smitty0069
08-20-2007, 10:07 AM
Hey guys........just discovering TGP forum.

I'm about to pick up a DRRI myself & was considering this very topic.

How does the stock Jensen compare to the earlier models that had the Fender labeled Eminence in them?

I did sound for a band recently where the guy was using an older Eminenece loaded one & his tone was very good, & he was a great player also.

Just wandering if most of you guys view either of these speakers as drawbacks to the amps that definately need changed or are the speaker changes just brought on out of experimenting mostly.


Thanks,
Smitty

strumminsix
08-20-2007, 10:09 AM
Best: JBL D120f. Adds juicy mids the amps needs. Awesome.

Or the Weber NEOs

stratzrus
08-20-2007, 11:51 AM
Tone Tubby Alnico. Thanks.

LB

That's what I have in mine (original formula hempcone) and I'm really happy with it.

stratzrus

landru64
08-20-2007, 11:52 AM
i like the naylor special design speaker

deluxeman
08-20-2007, 12:23 PM
Weber 12a150..... or a real Vintage Jensen or a Kendrick Black Frame is not a bad choice either. Although there seems to be no support for Gerald Weber's stuff here, I have used this speaker with good results. Any other comments on Kendrick stuff out there?

2x6L6
08-20-2007, 02:32 PM
Weber 12a150..... or a real Vintage Jensen or a Kendrick Black Frame is not a bad choice either. Although there seems to be no support for Gerald Weber's stuff here, I have used this speaker with good results. Any other comments on Kendrick stuff out there?
No comments re: kendrick, but I was wondering if you had experience with the Weber 12A150?

I am digging mine, but after several hours of use, still feeling it may not be broken in. Eminences I have used seem to took ~20 hours to break in.

Wondering how long this Weber will take to break in, and if once broken in the highs will be tamed a bit. They seem more intense after several hours of use than when it was freshly installed. The 12A150 came highly recommended from a couple trusted sources on Fender Deluxes.
Thanks!

pula58
08-20-2007, 04:48 PM
I know a Princeton reverb is a bit different but I have used a Weber 12F150 and also 12F150b in my PR and like them both...A lot.

The Cannabis Rex is nice too...but lately I have been more inclined towards the Webers..

tonefreak
08-20-2007, 04:57 PM
Weber ALnico here!

stratofied
08-20-2007, 05:01 PM
i like the naylor special design speaker
+1. This is a great sounding speaker in a DR.

fast ricky love
09-21-2007, 12:50 PM
Anyone ever try a Weber Blue Dog in a DR?

slider313
09-21-2007, 01:26 PM
I have, over the years, tried dozens of speakers in my original '65.
I have an original cone, brown&gold label C12N in it and for me it's the speaker. It retains the Fender tone and has just the right amount of sparkle and breakup. I was using a JBL D120F which sounds great also but added some weight and I was concerned the original baffle would crack from the extra weight.

mbratch
09-21-2007, 02:55 PM
I really like the well broken-in Weber C12N (called 12F150 these days) that I had in my DRRI. I swapped it out to try an Emi Cannabis Rex a while ago, and I think I'm going to swap back. The Emi's a great speaker for this amp, but the Weber was better for my taste.
I went through exactly the same stages. I prefer the sound of the 12F150 in the BFDR especially for cleans, and especially for that classic DR sparkle with a strat.

pula58
09-21-2007, 03:46 PM
I have a Fender Princeton Reverb. I put in a Weber 12F150 (I have a 12" speaker baffle) and thought I didn't like it too much. But, since then I have tried the Cannabis Rex, the Red Fang, The Private Jack and after a while find that I have come back to the 12F150. So true: Once broken-in it is, all around ,a great speaker. Pretty loud (high sensitivity) too!

P.

donden
09-21-2007, 11:03 PM
First of all, I highly recommend you have an amp tech disconnect the High Bypass (bright) cap in Channel 2; it will tame A Lot of the harsh, ice-picky high end. The cap can be easily re-connected when you sell the amp.

Second, I would take the good advice of the many Gear Pagers who have suggested you let your 12F150 break in fully before giving up on it. Ted Weber makes great speakers, but they seem to take longer than most to break in - probably 30 - 50 hours - though I would send Ted a quick e-mail to check this. The Weber 12F150 is one of the most popular speakers for a DR ... and all those deluxe owners who have them & love them can't all be hard of hearing.

After this, I suspect you will be quite pleased with the results. But if you still aren't crazy about the sound of the 12F150, there are many good choices - most already pointed out in this thread: Naylor SD-50, Eminence Red White & Blues, Cannabis Rex, or Texas Heat all sound GREAT in a DR, and if $ is not an issue, the Tone Tubby Alnico and Celestion Heritage G12-65 are excellent choices, too. Of course, the hard part is figuring out WHICH ONE has the sound that suits YOU best. This will take some investigating - finding out the characteristics of each, or perhaps finding a tech or store that carries Eminence and asking if they will let you "audition" all 3 in a quiet room or basement?

I really do believe that removing the nasty bright cap from the signal path and breaking in that speaker real well will make A WORLD of difference/improvement ... so, hopefully you won't have to go to the trouble of trying to decide between all the other excellent choices.

Good Luck! Let us know how it went.

Don

fast ricky love
09-22-2007, 09:29 AM
Here's my story: I'm not after sparkling cleans. I want grunting thick (but somewhat defined) OD from this amp.

I'm thinking the Blue Dog will be the move... anyone else?

Vibrolucky
09-22-2007, 11:38 AM
I have had great luck with these two speakers:

Tone Tubby Ceramic Hempcone - great versitile speaker

Jensen C12K - Its a monster, and does clean like nobody's business

r8burst
09-22-2007, 11:49 AM
Try a Eminence Red Fang. I put one in my 66 DR, and absolutely love it. Celestion Blue vibe for a lot less money.

Tony

slider313
09-22-2007, 12:57 PM
Anyone ever try a Weber Blue Dog in a DR?

Yes. My friend has an original '66 with a ceramic blue dog 50 watt which sounds real nice with his strat. I didn't care for it with my Les Paul. It has plenty of mids and bottom but lacks the sparkle I like. I have not tried the alnico version and would think even at 50 watts it would be more bass/mid heavy due to compression. You might want to go with Webers version of the G12-65.

daddyo
09-22-2007, 01:08 PM
Mine came with an alnico Jensen P12Q which sounds pretty good.

fast ricky love
09-22-2007, 03:31 PM
Yes. My friend has an original '66 with a ceramic blue dog 50 watt which sounds real nice with his strat. I didn't care for it with my Les Paul. It has plenty of mids and bottom but lacks the sparkle I like. I have not tried the alnico version and would think even at 50 watts it would be more bass/mid heavy due to compression. You might want to go with Webers version of the G12-65.

Yes, I've been curious about that speaker too... might give that a go next. The Blue Dog I've got coming is a 30w Alnico, should be great!

slider313
09-22-2007, 05:50 PM
Yes, I've been curious about that speaker too... might give that a go next. The Blue Dog I've got coming is a 30w Alnico, should be great!

That should sound good with single coils. Lots of punch on the bottom and mids. You'll have less note seperation the harder you push it. What speaker are you using in it now?

fast ricky love
09-22-2007, 09:52 PM
JBL D120f original cone... NO speaker breakup which I think is part of the problem for me.

slider313
09-23-2007, 12:04 PM
First of all, I highly recommend you have an amp tech disconnect the High Bypass (bright) cap in Channel 2; it will tame A Lot of the harsh, ice-picky high end. The cap can be easily re-connected when you sell the amp.
Don

I always clip the cap off and it does help. Another thing I do is change the phase inverter cap to a .002 or, if your a strict single coil player, a .02. This warms up the amp a great deal. I play mostly humbuckers and I have a .02 PI cap in my '64 Vibrolux Reverb, which was a very bright amp with the stock .001. Food for thought.

JDW3
09-27-2007, 12:29 AM
How would a broken in Weber Silver Bell (alnico) sound? I have one in an Ampeg amp here. The stock speaker in the Deluxe appears a bit scratchy.

I was under the impression the BF Fenders sound best with ceramic speakers.

jezzzz2003
09-27-2007, 04:32 AM
a 12".. :rolleyes:

PedalFreak
10-01-2007, 02:36 PM
Any have a Scumback in there DRRI???

ando
10-01-2007, 05:10 PM
i've had an original cone jbl d-120 in my '68 deluxe reverb for years...i had a '64 vibroverb with a jbl d-130 & can honestly say that the deluxe sounds better than the vibroverb ever did...if you can find a an original cone d-120 in great shape you can't go wrong..

BillyK
10-01-2007, 05:13 PM
I went through exactly the same stages. I prefer the sound of the 12F150 in the BFDR especially for cleans, and especially for that classic DR sparkle with a strat.

I've got a '67 BFDR and the 12F150 is it for me.
Thanks Ted.
-bk

Fishin'Musician
10-01-2007, 05:29 PM
I have a Weber 12F159 in my DRRI. I just now looked at it, (bought it used-had it a couple weeks). What is the story? I don't see this model listed anywhere on the Web(er)site. Is this what came in it new?

Mrjoelv
10-01-2007, 11:43 PM
There are many great speakers that sound good in the Deluxe but one that I don't hear much about is the Emenance Tonkerlite with a 4 oz Neodymium magnet. This speaker sounds awesome in my Deluxe clone and it lightens the amps weight as well. When I first tried it I wasn't expecting anything out of the ordinary but I am really impressed with the sound and plan on keeping it in the amp. Anyone else tried one?

aram
01-27-2008, 12:16 PM
ahhhhhhh!

So many choices!!!!!!!

I want a nice warm speaker. That breaks up smoothly at around 5.

cander328
01-27-2008, 12:33 PM
I got lucky and found an old Reverend All-Tone 1250 on eBay for my '64 Deluxe Reverb and this thing gives that grunting thick OD that I was looking for. I got turned on to these by Matt Schofield who speaks highly of them and his early recordings using the 1030 in his Super Reverb are some of the best tone I had heard. I liked the All-tone so much that I just bought 3 of the 10 inch 1030's (2 for my 1965 Vibrolux Reverb and 1 for my 1965 Princeton Reverb). These pop up every now and then on eBay and are worth looking out for. I have a 1964 Deluxe (non-reverb) that I am probably going to try a Celestion Gold Alnico in when I get a chance to see what all the hype is about.

Good Luck

http://www.mattschofield.com/home.php

Here's my story: I'm not after sparkling cleans. I want grunting thick (but somewhat defined) OD from this amp.

I'm thinking the Blue Dog will be the move... anyone else?

slider313
01-27-2008, 03:32 PM
Any have a Scumback in there DRRI???

I have a H55-8 in my original '65 right now. Big, smooth, with a thump that you can feel when you push it. I've been playing around with three or four speakers in the last month or so and I'm liking this one the most.

aram
01-27-2008, 08:59 PM
I'm thinking I'm going to go with the cannabis rex.

it seems like a lot of peeps here are happy with that one.

I guess the only down side is that if i'm playing really well one night and the speaker starts smoking the whole band will get high.
(:

if anyone else has some other ideas let me know!!!! I'm letting my tech know what i want put in there tomorrow!!!!

JetBlue
01-28-2008, 02:32 PM
Does anyone have, or know where I can find, specs for the Reverend Alltone 1250? I find only the basics on the Reverend site...12"/50W/8 Ohm.

My DRRI came with the Rev speaker when I bought it used. I'm starting to look for ways to increase clean headroom and tighten the low end, and suspect another speaker may help, but I've no data to evaluate. From what I've read online, I might want to try a D120F (if I could find one), a Jensen C12K, or a ceramic Weber California.

Any thoughts or experienced opinions?

Bonenut
01-28-2008, 04:07 PM
Any have a Scumback in there DRRI???

I have a Scumback H75 and am very pleased. I've tried at least a half a dozen speakers and this is the one that does it for me.

SW33THAND5
01-28-2008, 05:13 PM
+1 on the JBL D120F. The ultimate speaker.

that speaker and any blackface fender is a match made in heaven

coyoteblue
01-28-2008, 05:54 PM
Cannabis Rex and Tone Tubby both work beautifully in my SFDR

fr8_trane
01-28-2008, 06:40 PM
Does anyone have, or know where I can find, specs for the Reverend Alltone 1250? I find only the basics on the Reverend site...12"/50W/8 Ohm.

My DRRI came with the Rev speaker when I bought it used. I'm starting to look for ways to increase clean headroom and tighten the low end, and suspect another speaker may help, but I've no data to evaluate. From what I've read online, I might want to try a D120F (if I could find one), a Jensen C12K, or a ceramic Weber California.

Any thoughts or experienced opinions?

If you want to tighten the low end and increase headroom a new speaker will only be a partial solution especially since you already have a modern, 50 watt, fairly efficient speaker in there.

The best fix is to install jj 6v6's and a SS rectifier plugin (available from Groove tubes and others). The SS recto will increase the plate voltage to the power tubes and since normal 6v6's are already stressed the JJ's are the only ones that can handle the extra juice. Also, if you have an older amp you might want to make sure your filter caps are in good shape before you do this mod.

The bottom line is that this mod will definitely tighten the bass (especially at higher volume where the deluxe really farts outs) and slightly increase headroom. I've done this mod to my Deluxe w/ reverend all-tone and I can verify that it works as described. With a healthy amp, SS plug-in and weber Bias rite the whole mod takes 15 minutes and you now have one less tube that can blow up at a gig.

If you want to take it another step further you could install an upgrade output transformer from Allen amps. It has 50% more iron, is spec'd properly for 6v6's and will also handle an 8 ohm extension speaker in parallel with the onboard speaker. Apparently, the stock Deluxe OT is not really optimized for 6V6's and this contributes to its mushy bass response.

As for speaker preferences, I really liked the sound of my Deluxe through a mojo 1x12 with a Jensen NEO. The high end was much smoother and more musical than the Alltone which I find to be a bright speaker that when paired with a bright amp like the deluxe accentuates the fizz in OD pedals. The alltone sounds great clean though but I still preferred the Jensen.

JetBlue
01-29-2008, 11:42 AM
Thanks fr8_trane! You hit on several other questions I had as well. I'll definitely look into the JJ's, ss recto, and Allen OT.

I do like the sound of the DRRI at break-up, which starts on mine about 5-6 on the volume. But I'm going for a clean sound with a band, un-mic'd, which hasn't worked out so well. Maybe I'm asking too much of this amp. It's the perfect amp in all other regards so I'm hoping to find just a little more clean.

mrbungel
01-29-2008, 12:17 PM
Another vote for the JBL D120 or D120F, pricey and worth every penny.

Patrick Ginnaty
06-29-2009, 08:05 PM
6L6s (instead on 6V6s) with ss rectifier + efficient speaker = very clean. Yes, the DR can be biased for 6L6s, it sounds the same but stays cleaner longer.

5E3
06-29-2009, 08:49 PM
Eminence Cannabis Rex :aok

doublee
06-29-2009, 08:56 PM
Another vote for the JBL D120 or D120F, pricey and worth every penny.

Yeah but arent these all reconed by now ( or need to be redone) and who knows by whom it may have been done...not arguing just wondering.

doublee
06-29-2009, 09:08 PM
Does anyone have, or know where I can find, specs for the Reverend Alltone 1250? I find only the basics on the Reverend site...12"/50W/8 Ohm.

My DRRI came with the Rev speaker when I bought it used. I'm starting to look for ways to increase clean headroom and tighten the low end, and suspect another speaker may help, but I've no data to evaluate. From what I've read online, I might want to try a D120F (if I could find one), a Jensen C12K, or a ceramic Weber California.

Any thoughts or experienced opinions?

If youre interested in the Alltone, then look into the Naylor which is still made by Emminence, both designed by the same guy I believe...Naylor. I have had both and liked the Naylor a little more, and the TTubby ceramic a little more than those in my DR. I have also had a D120f but thought it a little life-less in comparison but maybe they prefer to be played loud. The alum cover makes those a little bright no?

Gnarlly
06-30-2009, 08:20 AM
I currently have the stock Jensen C12K in my DRRI, which I think is great for clean tones, but sounds harsh to me for distorted tones (running dirt pedals into the Normal channel; bright cap clipped on Vibrato channel).

The speaker is somewhat broken-in, but I can't tell for sure how much (played mostly at moderate volumes for the last couple of years; only at louder volumes with a band recently).

I've always liked Celestions for distorted/rock tones, but I'm worried about losing the great clean tones and chime I get from the C12K. What other Celestion speakers do you guys prefer? I've tried a Greenback and didn't like the lack of low end and chime compared to the C12K; it seemed to lose it's "Fender" sound. Not interested in a Blue or Gold (used to own a Blue, and I didn't like it for hard rock). Worried that a V30 would have too much mids and lack chime. How about a G12H30 or CL80 (love the one in my Shiva)? Thanks.

semi-hollowbody
06-30-2009, 09:59 AM
I like the Jensen re-issue that comes with the reissue. Mine is nicely broken in and sounds very nice. Not ice-picky or shrill at all.
I kept the jensen and put it in an lopoline 1x12 thats connected to my DRRI...
I put a Weber ceramic signature 12b in the drri...

blackba
06-30-2009, 10:55 AM
I currently have the stock Jensen C12K in my DRRI, which I think is great for clean tones, but sounds harsh to me for distorted tones (running dirt pedals into the Normal channel; bright cap clipped on Vibrato channel).

The speaker is somewhat broken-in, but I can't tell for sure how much (played mostly at moderate volumes for the last couple of years; only at louder volumes with a band recently).

I've always liked Celestions for distorted/rock tones, but I'm worried about losing the great clean tones and chime I get from the C12K. What other Celestion speakers do you guys prefer? I've tried a Greenback and didn't like the lack of low end and chime compared to the C12K; it seemed to lose it's "Fender" sound. Not interested in a Blue or Gold (used to own a Blue, and I didn't like it for hard rock). Worried that a V30 would have too much mids and lack chime. How about a G12H30 or CL80 (love the one in my Shiva)? Thanks.

I would go with a G12H30 anni. I have an open backed 212 cab with G12H30's and it sounds great with my Fender Bandmaster reverb. The cleans do get more of a British flavor though. I wish I would have tried a G12h30 when I had my DRRI. I never liked CL80's with Blackface or silverface fenders for some reasons. I am running 2 CL80's with my Marshall 2553, which I see is an amp you have as well.

davess23
06-30-2009, 11:33 AM
72 SFDR here, very happy with the Weber 12F150. It took some breaking in, but don't we all?

Gnarlly
06-30-2009, 11:42 AM
I would go with a G12H30 anni. I have an open backed 212 cab with G12H30's and it sounds great with my Fender Bandmaster reverb. The cleans do get more of a British flavor though. I wish I would have tried a G12h30 when I had my DRRI. I never liked CL80's with Blackface or silverface fenders for some reasons. I am running 2 CL80's with my Marshall 2553, which I see is an amp you have as well.

I like to run my 2553 (my current "backup" amp) through my Shiva's ported cab with CL80; love the tone! Most people seem to really love the mid-heavy V30's with Jubilees (have one in my 2554; it sounds "boxy"), but I like the more balanced CL80 with Jubilees, as these amps have plenty of mids already. (same with the Shiva: I've tried it with V30's, but the clean channel is much better with the CL80 IMO).

The G12H30 is the Celestion that I'm looking at the most for my DRRI. I have a Bogner Duende on the way with a G12H30 in it; I'll try plugging my DRRI into that amp's cab/speaker and see how it sounds.

mbratch
06-30-2009, 05:35 PM
closing in on a 3 year response! Now that's commitment!The funny part is it got revived after more than a year by someone with a post about tubes, not speakers. :messedup

mochimike
07-16-2009, 04:14 PM
Jensen Tornado