Favorite single 12ax7 for cleans?

[jamison162]

I'm approaching re-tubing my Rockerverb one step at a time. I've tried a bunch of preamp tubes but none other than stock 6V6's as of yet.

Gotta start somewhere so I'll start with my clean channel gain stages.

What is your single most fav. 12ax7 for clean tones only. Be it new production or NOS.

I'm currently running a new Tung-Sol and I must it is pretty sweet.

Share......

[AL30]

I really like the new Tung-Sol's as well. But, I actually prefer a 12AT7 in a lot of amps for clean sounds. They seem to "fatten" things up to my ears.

AL

[Tuberoast]

I have a NOS Mazda Chrome plate in V2 on my Deluxe Reverb..super clean and rich sounding
NOS Mullards and RCA's are also right up there. The Tung Sol you currently have is a wise choice too!
5751 make for a great clean sound too

[Exothermia]

I think they're mighty expensive these days but NOS Amperex Bugle Boys sound amazing clean.

[Blue Strat]

Rca 12ax7a.

[Swarty]

Telefunken

[harryjmic]

Rca 12ax7a.


+1 I just got 9 late 50's RCA Wurlitizer tubes and the rock.

[HipKitty]

+1 on the RCA 12ax7a

[JZG]

In no particular order:

RCA 12AX7(A)
RCA 5751
Amperex 12AX7 (doesn't necessarily have to be a Bugle Boy)

[Timbre Wolf]

'58 or '59 Mullard long-plate 12AX7 (f91 or f92 version). Stunning clarity - like a breath of fresh air.

- Thom

[Blue Strat]

'58 or '59 Mullard long-plate 12AX7 (f91 or f92 version). Stunning clarity - like a breath of fresh air.

- Thom

It's worth noting that NOS examples of these are fetching upwards of $150 each.

[michael30]

Telefunken ECC83 or RCA 5751.

[Timbre Wolf]

It's worth noting that NOS examples of these are fetching upwards of $150 each.

Its a pity, but its true. What will they be next year?

- T

[Blue Strat]

Its a pity, but its true. What will they be next year?

- T

If I knew where to find one I'd let you know exactly what they cost today:)

[leofenderbender]

RCA 6681s

[jamison162]

Has anyone tried a NOS Mullard 12AT7WA / CV4024???

[leofenderbender]

Has anyone tried a NOS Mullard 12AT7WA / CV4024???

I've always liked them better for grit than for cleans.

[Timbre Wolf]

Has anyone tried a NOS Mullard 12AT7WA / CV4024???
Yes, and I liked what it did for my Mesa Triaxis preamp (cleaned up, less compressed, better clean, IMO), where I used in in the first input position (V2, in the Triaxis case). Worth the minimal investment!

- T

[Blue Strat]

Has anyone tried a NOS Mullard 12AT7WA / CV4024???

These are great as 12AT7s AND to replace 12AX7s in some situations. They outshine other 12AT7s by a longshot.

[harryjmic]

Has anyone tried a NOS Mullard 12AT7WA / CV4024???

Yeah I have 8 of them, great tubes need to be careful of the clarity, might make the amp too bright depending on what it is.

[Wakarusa]

Can't resist throwing my $0.02 in the ring...

The Mullard 12AT7/CV4024 is a thing of absolute beauty. A whole bunch of these hit the market a year or two ago, so get 'em while they're hot. I can't find anything better for a BF Fender phase inverter.

Telefunkens - They sound great in my old Scott 340-B, but I just can't get excited about them in a tube amp. Not sure why -- perhaps a bit sterile sounding? That and a heck of a lot of money.

NOS RCA - bloody great tube for smooth/balanced cleans. A big part of why old Fenders sounded the way they did. Often overlooked while everyone is scrabbling for Mullards, Telefunkens, Bugle Boys, etc.

Sovtek LPS - Actually a great sounding tube similar to NOS RCA, but big plates are susceptible to microphonics. Shouldn't be used in a cathode follower due to low heater/cathode voltage limit.

JJ ECC83S - Very neutral sounding. Sort of the "default" tube. Avoid the 803S - microphonic and high failure rates for a JJ

EH - bright. The opposite of the Russian Tung Sol.

Russian Tung-Sols - very nice, but a bit "dark" sounding to me. Work really well to take the edginess out of an old tweed or Marshall.

NOS Tung Sol - Not like the Russian version at all. Big full cleans like the RCA with a bit of the midrange push you get in a Mullard. I've only got a few left in the private stash and will pout when they're finally gone. If you held a gun to my head and said "choose!", these would be the ones.

[Timbre Wolf]

Can't resist throwing my $0.02 in the ring...
At $0.02 each tube, that was a full $0.16, and worth every penny! :AOK

I agree with many of your observations, Todd, from the value of the late-production Mullard CV4024, to the bland Telefunken (just doesn't work for me) to the unsung virtues of the one and only true Tung-Sol 12AX7. Nice writeup!

- T

[uberpict]

Another +1 for the RCA in V1, love the late 50's early 60's gray plate with square getter. Not as coveted as the blackplate but still a very clean, clear dynamic tube.

[tommytomcat]

Personally, I've never been one for NOS expensive tubes.. I haven't seen anyone mention the 5751. I like them a little better than a 12AT7.

[jamison162]

So what would using the AT7 instead of an AX7 in the PI due? Or rather how would it affect you gain/volume levels?

Any comments on that GT Mullard?

[Timbre Wolf]

Personally, I've never been one for NOS expensive tubes.. I haven't seen anyone mention the 5751. I like them a little better than a 12AT7.

5751 can be great, if it suits your amp and taste. I prefer 3-mica black-plates: GE for a more forward treble, and RCA for a smokier tone and softer feel. Common GE grayplates leave me cold, though.

I'm a bit surprised by the number of fans of the short-plate RCA 12AX7A. In comparisons with many other 12AX7s, these always lacked clarity. Their fat, solid lows may be the ticket for you fans, though. I'm also surprised that no one has yet named the RCA short gray-plate 7025, which I prefer over the 12AX7A - it has a chimier character, in my experience, with better clarity.

- Thom

[Blue Strat]

Thom has a penchant for the unobtainable, "mortgage the house" variety of almost everything;)

[Timbre Wolf]

Thom has a penchant for the unobtainable, "mortgage the house" variety of almost everything;)
I'm also a snob when it comes to beer, preferring to have fewer of the more expensive and rare bottles, rather than lots of cheap. :BEER

But I've never paid more than $40 for a preamp tube (sorry Mike) - and that was for my beloved Mullard long-plates. I don't mind using used tubes, as long as they're still working fine.

Hey, Raytheon black-plate 12AX7 are still not too awfully expensive, and they're another of my favorite 12AX7 (depends on the amp): bright, clear, early-breakup.

- Thom

[Blue Strat]

I'm also a snob when it comes to beer, preferring to have fewer of the more expensive and rare bottles, rather than lots of cheap. :BEER

But I've never paid more than $40 for a preamp tube (sorry Mike) - and that was for my beloved Mullard long-plates. I don't mind using used tubes, as long as they're still working fine.

Hey, Raytheon black-plate 12AX7 are still not too awfully expensive, and they're another of my favorite 12AX7 (depends on the amp): bright, clear, early-breakup.

- Thom

I'm with you on the beers (and other things). I drink for flavor more than effect.

I can imagine all the phone calls now (as usually happens when people recommend impossible to find tubes) with guys expecting to get long plate Mullards for Sovtek prices:) It's fun to hear the body hit the floor over the phone :D

[Wakarusa]

So what would using the AT7 instead of an AX7 in the PI due? Or rather how would it affect you gain/volume levels?

Any comments on that GT Mullard?

In typical PI and preamp circuits the 12AT7 will produce less gain than the 12AX7, but the overall behavior really depends on the specific circuit (plate loads, bias point, etc. etc.).

Said another way.... if you were designing an 12AT7 amplification stage from scratch using load lines and characteristic curves looking for good balanced operation and made the same kind of decisions that, in a 12AX7, end up with a 100K plate load and a 1K5 cathode resistor -- for the 12AT7 you'd arrive at about a 20K plate load with a 620 ohm cathode resistor and a midband gain of about 38 compared to the 12AX7 midband gain of around 60.

So... jacking a 12AT7 into your typical guitar amp circuit designed for a 12AX7 yields a bit less voltage gain (since we're still driving into something on the order of 100K plate loads), but, more importantly, less ability to source current (i.e. drive following loads) and asymmetrical operation with large inputs (e.g. the symmetrical operating range of the tube is greatly limited). Which is all probably a whole lot more than you were really asking. I guess what I'm getting at is that, yeah, there's a bit less gain, but there's also a lot more going on.


Any comments on that GT Mullard?
Trolling, right? :D They sound okay for the two weeks before the fail.

[Wakarusa]

I'm with you on the beers (and other things). I drink for flavor more than effect.

I can imagine all the phone calls now (as usually happens when people recommend impossible to find tubes) with guys expecting to get long plate Mullards for Sovtek prices:) It's fun to hear the body hit the floor over the phone :D

Heh.. so how ya' stocked for NOS Tung Sol? :)

[Blue Strat]

Heh.. so how ya' stocked for NOS Tung Sol? :)

Actually, I do have some of these though they're not listed on the website;)

[Wakarusa]

Actually, I do have some of these though they're not listed on the website;)


You magnificent bastard :)

Might have to give you a call...

[Blue Strat]

You magnificent bastard :)



I resemble that remark! :D

On pricing for those, they'll be the same as RCA 12AX7As.

[jamison162]

I resemble that remark! :D

On pricing for those, they'll be the same as RCA 12AX7As.

Hey Mike,

We need to discuss my commision rate asap!!

:roll

[Blue Strat]

Hey Mike,

We need to discuss my commision rate asap!!

:roll

Absolutely! First let's discuss why you'd get a commission (other than being a gentleman of distinction)? :D

[jamison162]

Absolutely! First let's discuss why you'd get a commission (other than being a gentleman of distinction)? :D

Because it seems I've chummed up some of your customers and your doing business on my thread...hehehe.

20%

How about a matched quad of Brimars - the 6V6 variety....

J/k of course.

[Wakarusa]

Because it seems I've chummed up some of your customers and your doing business on my thread...hehehe.


Not until he actually sells something ;)

[Sparky6string]

I'll break from the crowd with...

1) Tungsram

2) Herleen long and short plates.


I say these because they're what I'm using and I have plenty to choose from. Also for Fender cleans I think GE short plates are underrated. Flame away.

[Timbre Wolf]

for Fender cleans I think GE short plates are underrated. Flame away.
Just goes to show that there's a place for everything in this big world.

For what it's worth, I find the Tungsram to be in a similar vein to Mullard short-plates, but with a bit more clarity. That's why I'd choose Tungsram over those particular Mullards.

Now, my turn to throw out an underappreciated 12AX7: early '50s Sylvania black-plates (the long plates, not the short - which I also like, for different reasons). They're bright, and they break up later than any other black-plate 12AX7 I know. Almost like a 5751, but not quite. And talk about transparency - like a bright blue day after an ice storm. Or a glass shrimp's belly. Clear, clean and bright. Just the thing for that certain murky amp.

- Thom

[Wakarusa]

Just goes to show that there's a place for everything in this big world.


Always a good thought to include in these threads. The best sounding tube in the world is always the one you like. I don't find the shorty GE all that interesting, but Sparky6string's "flame on" is, hopefully, a bit misplaced.


Now, my turn to throw out an underappreciated 12AX7: early '50s Sylvania black-plates

Agreed on tone, but not sure I agree on the unmatched headroom. Sylvania, in their day, came out with some fine tubes. It's just not often I see them. Slightly off topic, but old Sylvania 7591A, big bottle 6CA7, and 6V6 are pretty fabulous too.

[tremolux]

There was a period when Groove Tubes re-labeled and sold Tungsrams for about a year until their stock ran dry (around 88-89).....Im no fan of GT in general (or in specific), but a lot of players have had Tungs Rams in their amps and have liked them, not realizing what they were....I find them to be a little spongy sounding like the short plate Mullards, but I agree, they have some sheen on top that makes them sound a little more clear at moderate volumes than the Mullards.

I have a couple of the 50s black/long plate Sylvanias, I know I tried them out at some point but obviously didnt form an opinion....but Ill be trying them out this morning.

To throw out a name, have some late 80s EIs relabeled Westinghouse (or have airbrushed in white ECC83 label) that are really sweet with early breakup and seem to outshine a lot of NOS stuff they should'nt.

[Wakarusa]

The whole Ei/Yugo story is a bit odd.

Consistency and reliability in their 12AX7 was appalling. Incredibly high failure rates, tubes way out of spec, microphonic screaming monsters, etc.

But... the 2 out of 100 that were actually built well (perhaps by the one little old lady on the assembly line?) sounded amazingly good. It just wasn't ever worth the hassle to weed through the bums to find the good ones.

[Timbre Wolf]

Sparky6string's "flame on" is, hopefully, a bit misplaced.\
No flaming here. Just surprise, based on my own personal preferences. That's the same way I feel when I hear oohing and aaahing over Telefunkens - I just don't hear what the fuss is about.

I admit that I hold tight to my own preferences, but also know that I'm confident in my opinions due to years of extensive tube tone exploration, in several different amp designs. Hope I've made myself clear that I have probably a half-dozen "favorite" 12AX7s, depending on the tone/touch needs of the amp.

- T

[Timbre Wolf]

The whole Ei/Yugo story is a bit odd.

Consistency and reliability in their 12AX7 was appalling. Incredibly high failure rates, tubes way out of spec, microphonic screaming monsters, etc.

But... the 2 out of 100 that were actually built well (perhaps by the one little old lady on the assembly line?) sounded amazingly good. It just wasn't ever worth the hassle to weed through the bums to find the good ones.
This is true of post-war Ei, however, Tremolux's post was about '80s Ei, which was a company with much more reliable quality. Ei was one of the Philips conglomerate, and was quite respectable, pre-war.

I've seen "Amperex" EL84 with the bugle boy logo, that were made by Ei. No doubt, the 'boy logo made them sound better. :rolleyes:

- T

[Igneous]

'58 or '59 Mullard long-plate 12AX7 (f91 or f92 version). Stunning clarity - like a breath of fresh air.

- Thom
hands down.Either way NOS longplate. amperex are good too(heerlen)

[Igneous]

Has anyone tried a NOS Mullard 12AT7WA / CV4024???
they are cool and clean things up, just a bit too much audio loss for me. I like them to tame something down.

[jamison162]

JAN Phillips 5751?

[uberpict]

+1 I just got 9 late 50's RCA Wurlitizer tubes and the rock.

Are these the long gray plate with a square getter welded directly to the plate? Most organ tubes I've seen have been this variety, great tubes.

[tremolux]

"Now, my turn to throw out an underappreciated 12AX7: early '50s Sylvania black-plates (the long plates, not the short - which I also like, for different reasons). They're bright, and they break up later than any other black-plate 12AX7 I know. Almost like a 5751, but not quite. And talk about transparency - like a bright blue day after an ice storm. Or a glass shrimp's belly. Clear, clean and bright. Just the thing for that certain murky amp.



wow....I missed that side of the tube trying them out years ago, must have been trying to get them to sustain/distort on the first trials....No wonder they didnt leave an impression, because...they DONT! In a BF they just hang with the volume knob a number or two higher than other "clean" 12As.

I only had three to try, one was micro and squeals with a slight tap from a Sharpie....the second and third I let warm up for 10 minutes after testing and they would make every Tele player I know smile.

One of these in the reverb return socket with a softer tube in the #2 slot is a great pairing too...they stay clean with a humbucker and really clean with a SC.

The low E string just goes "smack" with very little mid range or bass clutter in the detail ....A Pete Anderson "dream" tube.

[Timbre Wolf]

wow....I missed that side of the tube trying them out years ago, must have been trying to get them to sustain/distort on the first trials....No wonder they didnt leave an impression, because...they DONT! In a BF they just hang with the volume knob a number or two higher than other "clean" 12As.

I only had three to try, one was micro and squeals with a slight tap from a Sharpie....the second and third I let warm up for 10 minutes after testing and they would make every Tele player I know smile.

One of these in the reverb return socket with a softer tube in the #2 slot is a great pairing too...they stay clean with a humbucker and really clean with a SC.

The low E string just goes "smack" with very little mid range or bass clutter in the detail ....A Pete Anderson "dream" tube.
Long black-plate Sylvania 12AX7 are not for everyone, by a long shot. But they are unique, and that's what counts, in my book. Glad you found their value.

- T

[Sparky6string]

I don't find the shorty GE all that interesting, but Sparky6string's "flame on" is, hopefully, a bit misplaced.

That was tongue in cheek since I know those short plate GEs aren't very appreciated here.

[devbro]

Anyone else try Silver Streak 12AX7's? Lord Valve turned me on to one of these for my Super. Very glassy but not harsh. Oddly, I've never heard much mention of them.

[Timbre Wolf]

Anyone else try Silver Streak 12AX7's? Lord Valve turned me on to one of these for my Super. Very glassy but not harsh. Oddly, I've never heard much mention of them.

I've never heard any mention of them. Who makes them?

- T

[devbro]

I think they're made by Kimber.

[Timbre Wolf]

I think they're made by Kimber.
Confusing cable with tubes? One of us doesn't know what you're talking about, but I honestly don't know which one yet.

- T

[Wakarusa]

Anyone else try Silver Streak 12AX7's? Lord Valve turned me on to one of these for my Super. Very glassy but not harsh. Oddly, I've never heard much mention of them.

I think you mean "Silver Special". They're Chinese and differ from the regular Chinese 12AX7 in that they have some kind of silver alloy on the plates. Here's a pair of Chinese 12AX7 from about the same vintage. The Silver Special is on the right:

http://images.wakarusaamp.com/tgp/Chinese_12AX7_1.jpg

A bit more history (at least as I recall it)....

These were originally marketed some time in the 80s (?) under the Ruby brand which is also where they got the "Silver Special" moniker. I believe that there's a more recent silver-plated production run out on the market today, but they don't sound the same. Too, as far as I know, these puppies are pretty scarce these days (I have half a dozen, but no idea where to get more). Willie (aka Lord Valve) used to sell 'em and Derek Trucks used to run them in V1 of his Super Reverb.

The grey-plate Chinese 12AX7 from this era actually aren't a bad tube at all, particularly for the price. Pretty transparent sounding, middling headroom. Closest comparison I can think of is a "JJ ECC83S lite". The silver plate version is, like the Sylvania discussed earlier, unique and probably best suited to specific purposes. They have an excellent clean tone. Very "glassy" for lack of a better term. They also, in my experience, have pretty limited headroom, but a very smooth/subtle decent into compression/distortion. I always think of it as adding a bit of "hair" to the tone. For me, they make a near perfect match with a 6L6 powered vintage Fender amp being used for blues/classic rock. I tend to use 'em (when in the mood) in either my BFSR or BFTR.

[tremolux]

devbro might be confusing the name "Silver Streak"" with Lord Valves more recent favorite current prod Chinese 12AX7, which he called the "Silver Special".

The Chinese factory that built them (for Ruby Tubes originally in the early to mid 90s) is no longer making them and hasnt been able to produce any that compare to the early version for several years, tho Ruby claims the Chinese Shuguang plant has all the tooling now and enuff plate alloys to make a run of of 60k....no other Chinese made 12AX7 has compared in quality to the early Silver Specials for high gain amps due to the low noise floor and low incidence of microphonics.

Compared to most of the "clean" NOS 12AX7s mentioned in this thread, the Silver Specials were ok for current prod, but had nowhere near the harmonic detail and longevity. I think Mesa was just glad to have a quiet tube to put in the second stage of their preamps and used up a lot of the Silver Specials.

To uberpict....Wurlitzer relabeled tubes from several manufacturers over the decades....the most often used was a GE short plate in the 60s and 70s after RCA briefly in the 50s. A lot of RCA tubes went into their Jukeboxes. When they quit making tube driven organs in the 70s they were using Sylvanias I believe.

[tremolux]

Whoa, Todd you were posting yours as I was writing on the Silver Specials...you are correct about the plate re: the "Silver" part on the name! I forgot there were also plain gray plate versions....they were indeed pretty nice current production tubes when they were available......I hung on to a few also...well, great minds etc etc....

[Timbre Wolf]

Aha! Thank you both for the clarification!

- T

[devbro]

Thanks guys for the clarification. Absolutely correct. It is a Silver Special. Oddly, In my Super I've found it has massive headrrom. Lord Valve recommended them while discussing a clean approach to my Super. If you get a chance, try one - crystal clean. As already said, the reissue Tung-Sol 12Ax7 ain't half bad either for a good clean sound.

[tremolux]

devbro....welcome!!... and the Silver Special may make a return soon if Willie (Lord Valve) and Ruby can finally put it all together with Shuguang.

The Tung Sol name brand (and all the others) Matthews "borrowed" doesnt neccessarily make me want to buy them. I recall Richardson Electronics terrible Sovtek 12AXWAs relabeled as Amperex that started the whole thing too well....I have a problem when a name cant be backed up with comparable quality....but if the TS tubes are decent, I guess thats all that counts...

Also, as far as Im concerened, those brown base tall bottle 6L6GCs Shuguang made for Ruby and LV were some of the best STR copies made in the current prod era....and without the shave and haircut a USA Philips/Syl STR could give you in the wrong amp. They were cheap, dependable and could go two 1/2 years in an amp that got regular workouts. Then again, buying anything from China makes me wanna ______.....better not get started.....

[Wakarusa]

Buying stuff from China isn't a Bad Thing, it's just a strong case of caveat emptor. In my experience the Chinese are very good at manufacturing exactly what you ask them for. If you ask for crap (or are only willing to pay for crap) you get, big surprise, crap. So in the end you get quality all across the board. To wit: The generic Chinese 5AR4 had such high failure rates (and occasional devestating consequences) that it will be a very long time before I trust them. Conversely, the Shuguang KT-66 is quite good. Too, the "TAD" recreations of RCA and GE 6L6GC are both very nice tubes -- and made in China. There are also sleepers in the pack. I haven't seen any recently, but you used to be able to get generic red boxed Shuguang labeled 6L6GC for well under $10 ea. They weren't barn burners, but for the price they were an excellent bargain (used to sell a lot of these as inexpensive backup tube sets matched to whatever fancy tube the player usually ran).

[Wakarusa]

(figured I'd throw a second post rather than editing the heck out of the previous one)

Mike Matthews and his brand grabs is an interesting phenomenon too. Last time I checked he had US rights to the Svetlana name, Tung Sol and Mullard. Of course he's playing on the premium names to charge premium prices for his tubes (kind of like buying a Cohiba branded cigar in the US. Pretty logo, but it ain't a Cohiba).

What's most interesting to me is watching what he actually cobbles together and how it's marketed. I.e. if the future holds new and excellent tubes (like his TS 12AX7, TS 5881, and TS 6550) then more power to him, though I think the prices on some of them are insane. When he first came out with his new Svet 6L6GC I put a bunch of 'em in old Fenders (much better clarity and headroom than the "old" S-logo Svets in my opinion). But then I started running into problems with reliability and microphonics (yes, in power tubes) AND one of the TS offerings (I forget which.. KT-66 maybe?) came out with exactly the Svet 6L6GC guts but at twice the price. If this is the pattern we have to look forward to then I fear we've just got another Groove Tubes on our hands.

So, for the time being at least, it's difficult to declare any single brand name as being, overall, excellent (like traditional Mullard or RCA). It's a tube by tube, factory by factory decision and, worse, seems to change all too rapidly over time.

[tremolux]

Todd....I agree on the basis of just strictly "business"....my aversion to putting my money in the hands of the Chinese govt has much more to do with humanitarian/political issues I saw first-hand, things that I wouldnt bring up on this website......or anywhere else for that matter.

In terms of quality and sound, up until just recently...China had the edge over the USSR/Russia made tubes....with the exception of the 5AR4 as you mentioned, and also the Chinese 6V6s we used to call "cherry bombs"....they'd go cherry on the plates and then blow up (in anything over 375 plate volts.

Matthews got chased out of business the first time by some unscrupulous characters back in the 70s, but hes like a cat, only with more lives and can always find a backer for his projects....and he IS dedicated to his projects beyond belief. I couldnt live in an RV for two years outside a Russian tube factory while they worked out the plating formulas and tooling....he did have frozen dinners and coffee shipped in from the USA while he was there, what a luxury!....maybe they were frozen Russian dinners relabeled with USA wrappers and HE got charged extra!!?? :)

Hes a character and a true old school "entrepreneurial" type....and Im no stranger to microphonic problems with his power tubes....I have a box of them that I need to just throw out.

There are some good tends going on no doubt, but marketing and name dropping dont impress me much unless the product stands up on its own....

[Buddy Boy]

+1:BEERI'm not really drinking at 1pm but I really like these tubes in Fenders,Blackface and Tweed. I'll hoist one later to you.JAN Phillips 5751?

[Blue Strat]

One interesting aspect of the Matthews "name grabs" is that most tube buyers today didn't know the original brand names to begin with (just read the posts here where "Tung Sol" and "Mullard" names are thrown around like these are something new [and never previously heard of). Trust me, I've shipped nearly 16,000 tube orders. I've got a pretty good handle on the market;)

[teleamp]

Telefunken ECC83 or RCA 5751.

+1 my favorite 12AX7.

MikeY

[jamison162]

+1 my favorite 12AX7.

MikeY

re: RCA 5751's or the Telefunken?

RCA Blackplates? Because I think I have a couple. What exactly do you like about them - what should I expect/listen for? Thx.

[jamison162]

Thanks guys for the clarification. Absolutely correct. It is a Silver Special. Oddly, In my Super I've found it has massive headrrom. Lord Valve recommended them while discussing a clean approach to my Super. If you get a chance, try one - crystal clean. As already said, the reissue Tung-Sol 12Ax7 ain't half bad either for a good clean sound.

Re: Ruby Silver Special

Nice, I have one of these also, round halo getter right? Labeled 12ax7a?

[Timbre Wolf]

RCA Blackplates? Because I think I have a couple. What exactly do you like about them - what should I expect/listen for? Thx.
Expect nothing, and listen for what you hear... ;)

I usually hear RCA blackplate 5751 to have more relaxed highs than GE or Sylvania black-plate 5751, but still retaining liveliness and articulation. Don't try to hear that, though, just go with what you get. :BluesBros

- T

[Timbre Wolf]

+1 my favorite 12AX7.

MikeY
Where do you have the Telefunken ECC83, and what qualities do you like about them? I'm still trying to give them fair play somewhere, but have not found the place for them yet.

- T

[Buddy Boy]

Where do you have the Telefunken ECC83, and what qualities do you like about them? I'm still trying to give them fair play somewhere, but have not found the place for them yet.

- T My Naylor's have a 12ax7 that runs the od section,I like a Telefunken for that application-less fizz than others. :cool:

[Timbre Wolf]

My Naylor's have a 12ax7 that runs the od section,I like a Telefunken for that application-less fizz than others. :cool:
Aha!! Best answer I've ever heard! Yeah, T-Funks' high frequencies are there, but never harsh. Guess some would call that "warm." Thanks! :BEER

[Buddy Boy]

Aha!! Best answer I've ever heard! Yeah, T-Funks' high frequencies are there, but never harsh. Guess some would call that "warm." Thanks! :BEER :BEER Yeah,the tele's are warm but stay tight. Not as prone to "explodo-tone" like a Mullard,Amperex, or my current favorite(in my Naylor)-Phillips/Sylvania with the blue label. I plug into the lo gain input,which only uses 1/2 of the 12ax7. Then the Tele for the drive. Wondering about the colors of the Phillips/Sylvania stuff,do the tubes change or just the color of the lettering? Norm at Cold Springs thought the green and blue were the same. I have had some yellow labels that were great and one batch that was terribly microphonic.
BTW,+1 for the RCA and Phillips JAN 5751 in Fenders. Had an early Victoria Bandmaster that came with a 5751 and I immediately bought a handful of JAN's. :AOK

[Timbre Wolf]

Wondering about the colors of the Phillips/Sylvania stuff,do the tubes change or just the color of the lettering? Norm at Cold Springs thought the green and blue were the same. I have had some yellow labels that were great and one batch that was terribly microphonic.
I would tend to agree with Norm - that paint color is not significant. Those later-production JAN Philips ECG 12AX7WA did not carry etched codes like European Philips tubes, so you can't rely on that to tell you which tubes are from related production batches. It could be that your yellow-paint tubes did come from a lower-quality batch, but the more common blue-paint ones are also known for high rates of microphony.

- T

[Buddy Boy]

Cool, T.Wolf,I must have gotten lucky with the blue labels that I have now. The "bad"yellow ones were last on the shelf back in the '80's, and to be honest I was trying them in a Mesa MKIIB that thrived on Amperex and Tungsrams. I got my last 4 blue labels from Greg at HITest and they are fine. :AOK

[Blue Strat]

Originally Posted by Buddy Boy http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=2894947#post2894947)
Wondering about the colors of the Phillips/Sylvania stuff,do the tubes change or just the color of the lettering? Norm at Cold Springs thought the green and blue were the same. I have had some yellow labels that were great and one batch that was terribly microphonic

I would tend to agree with Norm - that paint color is not significant. Those later-production JAN Philips ECG 12AX7WA did not carry etched codes like European Philips tubes, so you can't rely on that to tell you which tubes are from related production batches. It could be that your yellow-paint tubes did come from a lower-quality batch, but the more common blue-paint ones are also known for high rates of microphony.

- T

All of these had high microphonic tendencies regardless of print color, box color, etc. When I see that plate design the first thing that comes to mind is "microphonics".

[rockon1]

The short answer-the one that sound best to you! Bob

[Buddy Boy]

My tech delivered an amp last night and we looked at several blue label Sylvania's and found 4 different designs(internally). He also said that I was lucky to have some that sounded good with lo microphonics. He had some '80's EI's that were excellent, in fact I want some,they sounded so good.:AOK

[Structo]

I don't know much but wouldn't it depend on the individual amp to say what XXX 12ax7 sounds the best?
I mean, different amps have different front ends, different tone stacks, etc.
Just say'in....

[Timbre Wolf]

I don't know much but wouldn't it depend on the individual amp to say what XXX 12ax7 sounds the best?
I mean, different amps have different front ends, different tone stacks, etc.
Just say'in....

Just say'in the gospel truth, are we? Now where is the fun in that? :rolleyes:

- T

[Buddy Boy]

I don't know much but wouldn't it depend on the individual amp to say what XXX 12ax7 sounds the best?
I mean, different amps have different front ends, different tone stacks, etc.
Just say'in....

Just say'in the gospel truth, are we? Now where is the fun in that? :rolleyes:

- T The truth don't always hurt, but it can be quite surprising. :horse Ahh,wtf, let's drag it around some more.:AOK

[DEMENTED]

'58 or '59 Mullard long-plate 12AX7 (f91 or f92 version). Stunning clarity - like a breath of fresh air.

- Thom

I recently scored two of the f91 versions...how do you think they'll sound in my '72 Marshall 50 watt? What position would be best?

[Timbre Wolf]

I recently scored two of the f91 versions...how do you think they'll sound in my '72 Marshall 50 watt? What position would be best?
I'd try them first in V1 (closest to input jack). If they're not microphonic, I'll bet you'll be hearing a kind of clarity you've never experienced (a breath of mountain air!). If they're microphonic, don't despair too much - these make fantastic phase-inverters, even if microphonic elsewhere.

Enjoy!

- T

[rockon1]

I'd try them first in V1 (closest to input jack). If they're not microphonic, I'll bet you'll be hearing a kind of clarity you've never experienced (a breath of mountain air!). If they're microphonic, don't despair too much - these make fantastic phase-inverters, even if microphonic elsewhere.

Enjoy!

- T

They have a nice break up in the second gain stages too!

[Timbre Wolf]

They have a nice break up in the second gain stages too!
what the heck, just stick them directly into your ear :o ... then everything will sound all mullardy and beautiful!! :D

- T