Amp tech problem.

[HurricaneJesus]

OK, a little back story:
I purchased a blackface tremolux on the bay. It arrived only making quiet farting sounds. I took it to what I thought was a good repair shop. A year-and-a-half and 241 dollars later the amp is louder but not as loud as it should be. Occasionally it will jump up in volume and clarity to what it should be just long enough for me to say "Damn, that sounds great" then back down almost like the signal is attenuated. What the hell should I do? I'm pretty much not taking it back to that place because I'd like to have this amp before I die of old age or is that just how long stuff takes?
On my invoice it says the repair guys:
changed some caps, resistors
orange drops
changed the power tubes
biased

[Clutch21286]

Sounds like it could be a few things:

cold solder joint
faulty tube socket (try retensioning)
bad tubes (Preamp or output)
Caps bad?

Sounds like you need to have someone go through it (poke around) with some Chopsticks and see if you can identify the problem.

If you try it make sure you know what your doing first!

[HurricaneJesus]

Yeah, I have no clue as to what I'm doing, aside from probably electrocuting myself.

[quinnamps]

I don't know the background but why don't you ask for refund and take it somewhere else for the repair to be done?
As far as I can tell you've been had my friend.
You also mention repair "guys".
How many techs does it take to screw up an amp anyway?
Not trying to be a pisser m8 but I think you ought to do some bitching and complaining.
The very least I would settle for in your shoes would be to take the amp to the "tech" and have the ****er fix it while I hung out and fetched hima soda from the shop on the corner. I'd buy him the soda but I wouldn't put one more dime in his pocket. That or just get your cash back or as much of it as you can squeeze out of the guy.
Think about it. Did you pay to have some parts removed from your amp and replaced, or did you pay to have it repaired?
If he is worth his salt at all he can fix the damn thing in short order.
Tell him to forget his lunch break for the day....sheesh!

One last question. Did he give you a little baggie containing ALL of the parts he replaced?
If the answer is no your most likely dealing with a crook or a hack or both.

[John Phillips]

One last question. Did he give you a little baggie containing ALL of the parts he replaced?
If the answer is no your most likely dealing with a crook or a hack or both.
I've always found this meaningless as a means of telling whether a tech is honest or not. I never return scrap parts to a customer unless specifically asked to do so. What's the point? They're scrap, that's why they were taken out. They are of no use to anyone - you should never re-install scrap parts. (And I'm not a crook or a hack.)

In fact, I would tend to be suspicious the other way round - returning parts to 'show that something has been done' doesn't prove anything - just that the tech had some scrap parts lying around. To the average customer they're just some parts - they won't know what amp they came out of anyway.

The problem with the tech is that he can't find a fault, not that he's necessarily dishonest. Although, continuing to charge money for something he can't fix is maybe pushing that point... I agree with asking for the amp to either be fixed once and for all (for no extra charge) or for a refund. If he won't do either, you're going to have to accept the loss of the $241 and find a competent tech.

[KHK]

There is a guy in the Orlando area who did a good job on my old Deluxe Reverb. It was loud one minute and soft the next. He recapped it and did some other things to it and it sounds great again all of the time. He was referred by a number of folks on the board. I'm thinking I spent about what you spent and he also retubed and biased it and put in a new reverb tank.

Here is a link to his site
http://www.birddogbobby.com/

If you can't find someone closer to you, he will get the job done.

[allynmey]

Amp repair isn't Rocket science. Most amp techs could find a problem like that in an hour or less. Unless the amp is a original vintage amp and you need the original parts for resale sake, who needs the old parts? Describe the problem a little better and maybe one of us will put you on the right track so you can tell a competant amp tech where to look and save yourself some money!

[Rosewood]

A year and a half? If he took that long then the amp was probably sitting untouched most of the time. You need to find a another tech. It's probably a tube socket or bad solder joint, 1 hour job in most cases.

[Popoon]

Your amp's grid load resistors are indicated as an issue with the specified problem.

Either missing,broken,or the wrong value.

More i cannot say.

[soiajake]

That's a lot of money... he didn't even do a full cap job?

[HurricaneJesus]

Well I'm kinda screwed as far as going and hanging out or really going there at all since I work 8 to 5:30 mon thru friday and they're open until 5 tuesday thru friday. At this point I'd be happy taking it somewhere in the jacksonville area that's open on a ****ing saturday so I don't have to spend money and not make money at the same time to get it, get me?

[Pearly Gator]

From the California Better Business Bureau...

Return of Old Parts

At the time you sign the written estimate or work
order, you may request that the shop return to you
any parts that are replaced. The shop is required by
law to return the parts to you only if you request
them before the work is done.

If the shop installs a rebuilt part, the old part is usually
returned to the supplier as partial payment for the
rebuilt part. This payment is called a "core" charge. If
you want the old part back, you may have to pay the
"core" charge.

If any replaced parts must be returned to the supplier
under a warranty arrangement, those parts will not
be returned to you. But, you have the right to see them
if a charge is being made fore replacement.
Though it's kinda worded for automotive repair shops, the law does apply to all repair shops.

PG

[John Phillips]

From the California Better Business Bureau...

Though it's kinda worded for automotive repair shops, the law does apply to all repair shops.
Although I'm not in California anyway... my wife was once given the 'old' clutch back out of a car which it had been 'changed' on, and when the 'new' one failed again very soon, went to a different mechanic and was told there was no way the 'new' clutch was even remotely new (just the old one tightened up, to the point it then totally failed), so you can see how much value I put on the return of parts... ;)

Of course I would return parts if the owner wants them and asks first - they very rarely, if ever, do though. If not they go straight in the trash as soon as they come out of the amp. I see no value in keeping scrap that should never be put back in an amp, even if they are the 'original' parts. Especially as someone misguided may then be tempted to do so - or sell them to someone with no knowledge that installing old parts is a bad idea. I've even seen used electrolytic caps for sale on Ebay... for "restoration" of vintage amps :rolleyes:.

This does assume that you only change parts that need changing, though. I suppose if someone has gone through an amp and changed loads of stuff that didn't need it in a failed attempt to fix a problem, that's different.

[Popoon]

Why not build an amp from entirely bad parts.

[quinnamps]

I never return scrap parts to a customer unless specifically asked to do so. What's the point? They're scrap, that's why they were taken out. They are of no use to anyone - you should never re-install scrap parts. (And I'm not a crook or a hack.)

Well considering that in this day an age a blue Astron can be re-sold for big dollars I think it is only prudent to return the bits of crap. I hear all too often of "techs" stealing caps. If your not returning them to your customer how is he to know you didn't help yourself to a few that weren't bad?
Please keep in mind too that I said most likely.
Not everyone who doesn't return parts is guilty, some are just stubborn and feel that garbage is garbage. I can relate to that but I always let the customer decide.
And what if the amp was 100% original and very vintage and valuable?
Some folks especially in the collector scene don't want an amp unless it has the little baggy of crapped out parts that come with it. Some won't even bother with an amp that has been repaired. I am not saying I agree with this mentality but I know I am a fool to not cater to it.


In fact, I would tend to be suspicious the other way round - returning parts to 'show that something has been done' doesn't prove anything - just that the tech had some scrap parts lying around. To the average customer they're just some parts - they won't know what amp they came out of anyway.

Well see that doesn't jive with me at all. The only ones with spare junker parts lying about are those that didn't return them to their customers in the first place. Doing it to show something was done isn't the point of it at all.
The point is some caps are being re-sold for big dollars. Where did those caps come from? Exactly. As you point out customers don't know from where a part comes from so it is an easy temptation.
This is why I give all the crap back. What do I care? It isn't like the person is going to break out their RS iron and put them back.
Well anyone can run their show however they wish but in this day and age I think it is best to return everything to a customer. If they look at the baggy in scorn and don't want to take it with them I have a trash bin nearby. It requires no extra effort so why not?

I also know a really great tech in Portland and his feeling on caps is this.
"If one is bad they should ALL be replaced" Electros, couplings, ALL of them!" However he does put them all in bag and hands them over. I have seen a super for sale in town with every single caps replaced and the bag sits in the back of the amp. Now this isn't my style but it is hard to argue with him that if one coupling goes bad that the others are not far behind.
Also if a guy brings you an amp and you repair it and then three months later it has another problem, and this continues on and on. How many times is the guy going to come back to you? Remember these are non techy types so what do they know? All they know is they have paid you twice and they still have problems....

Well whatever $241 and a year and a half to get service speaks enough on it's own....

[quinnamps]

And this is how it is done:
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=279070

[John Phillips]

Well considering that in this day an age a blue Astron can be re-sold for big dollars I think it is only prudent to return the bits of crap. I hear all too often of "techs" stealing caps.I would never change out a blue Astron that wasn't faulty.

If your not returning them to your customer how is he to know you didn't help yourself to a few that weren't bad?There has to be a certain degree of trust. I'm honest. Anyway, if I was that way inclined I could easily find some actual dead parts to give them...

Not everyone who doesn't return parts is guilty, some are just stubborn and feel that garbage is garbage.Yes, I feel that garbage is garbage. Perhaps I'm stubborn... but I'm OK with that :).

And what if the amp was 100% original and very vintage and valuable?How does keeping dead parts that came out of it make it any more so? If they're out, then by definition the amp is no longer original. And you can't put them back and have it function properly, so what's the point? Again, if the parts didn't need changing I wouldn't change them anyway.

Some folks especially in the collector scene don't want an amp unless it has the little baggy of crapped out parts that come with it. Some won't even bother with an amp that has been repaired. I am not saying I agree with this mentality but I know I am a fool to not cater to it.If they really want the parts, they're free to ask for them - beforehand. I just won't cater to it without being specifically asked, it just helps perpetuate this nonsense.

The only ones with spare junker parts lying about are those that didn't return them to their customers in the first place.Not at all - I have as many spare junker parts as I want, because I often strip down dead vintage equipment (including hacked or otherwise non-valuable vintage amps which I legitimately acquire) for the good parts that are worth putting in an old amp as replacements to keep the original performance. Things like original carbon-comp resistors, mustard caps etc - tested of course - which I'm happy to provide to customers whose amps need them. But that leaves plenty of others...

The point is some caps are being re-sold for big dollars. Where did those caps come from? Exactly.Same as previous answer ;).

What do I care? It isn't like the person is going to break out their RS iron and put them back.No, but they might run across another tech, or well-meaning friend who 'knows about vintage amps' who will - and then if the amp is subsequently sold, who gets the blame for the mess? Or, they could sell them to someone who will re-install them.

I also know a really great tech in Portland and his feeling on caps is this.
"If one is bad they should ALL be replaced" Electros, couplings, ALL of them!" However he does put them all in bag and hands them over. I have seen a super for sale in town with every single caps replaced and the bag sits in the back of the amp. Now this isn't my style but it is hard to argue with him that if one coupling goes bad that the others are not far behind.I don't just replace failed parts if there are others which are a real and major reliability risk - eg if one filter cap has failed, they should all be done, or all carbon screen resistors etc. I'd also usually replace both PI coupling caps if one has failed. But to go through and replace every coupling cap if just one has failed is totally unnecessary, the others are not likely to be 'not far behind' usually.

Also if a guy brings you an amp and you repair it and then three months later it has another problem, and this continues on and on. How many times is the guy going to come back to you? Remember these are non techy types so what do they know? All they know is they have paid you twice and they still have problems....I explain that these are vintage amps, and they have two choices really - total reliability, which involves gutting the thing and replacing lots of parts, which costs a lot and makes it no longer quite so vintage-sounding as well, or accepting that they may have the odd problem now and again if I only change the parts that need it, but that it will not only maintain the tone better but will also cost them a lot less. You can guess which they almost all choose ;). Those that really want reliability tend to want new amps anyway - most people that own old amps do understand that they can't always be guaranteed to be perfectly so. (Although many are, with the right - and usually not very invasive - maintenance.)

BTW, I am very fussy about reliability - I don't like having to do the same (or nearly) job over again, exactly because it doesn't go down well with the customer. I try hard to get a good compromise between the two. Safety before reliability, reliability before tone, tone before originality. I will not work on an amp if I don't think it can be made safe and at least acceptably reliable.


I don't think we're really disagreeing on what is and what isn't honest, good working practice, BTW :). I just think it starts and ends with the amp, not with the left-overs.

[TheAmpNerd]

F*** it.

I just spend a half a F***ing hour writing my post and got lost
with one mistype on the f***ing keyboard.

I'm not typing it again.

Summarized here as

IT ALL DEPENDS