Does a 45w Princeton Rev. HAVE to sound like a Boogie?

[WahmBoomAh]

HI ,,,,, due to an empty head cab,road case and other size concerns ..I`m thinking of adding a PR modded chassis as a louder amp to my rig . I already have a great Clark 20 watt Princeton Rev. clone ...
If I sought out a 2 6L6 chassis for a PR w/ beefy trannys (45-50w) ...What sonics could i expect ????
Aside from the obvious differences between 6L6 and 6V6 ....shouldn`t I be able to get to Super Rev. land? ..I understand the preamp sections are all pretty similar .

OR ..... Since I hear this is what Boogie did ...Will I run into constipation problems ! ???????

thanks ,Paul

[hasserl]

I think you could expect a louder PR with less power tube distortion, smoother OD and possibly tighter bottom end. I'd go with a 5AR4 rectifier and beef up the filter caps to the max the rectifier will handle.

IMO it won't sound really like either a SR or a Boogie. The Boogies weren't just modified PR's, they were Bassman circuits stuffed into a PR chassis. And the PR circuit is a bit different from the SR, especially the use of a cathodyne PI and the bias wiggle type trem. I think it'd be a winner.

[darkbluemurder]

You are correct that the Fender preamps are similar but if you just want to build a Princeton with 6L6s and a bigger output transformer that amp will not sound like a Super Reverb or a Mesa. I would expect that it sounds like a louder Princeton. The reason is that the phase inverters are different. The Princeton uses a split-load or cathodyne phase inverter which is very balanced but has no gain. The Super and the Mesa use the long tail phase inverter (Schmitt splitter) which has a lot more gain. Both Fender and Mesa used different long tail PIs, also a contributing factor as to why Fenders and Mesas sound different.

Why are you fearing that the Princeton would sound constipated when set up like a Mesa? Just this weekend I rebuilt the phase inverter and feedback in my Deluxe Reverb II to Mark III specs (just to see what it sounds like). I liked the changes this did to the overall amp tone. To my ears the highs got smoother, the amp response got faster, and the presence control works much better than the standard presence control. Excellent clean tones, great OD sounds with pedals.

I believe Randall Smith chose the Princeton as a modding platform because he wanted a powerful amp in a compact package rather than making the Princeton louder.

[WahmBoomAh]

Thanks for the insights guys .... I love the PR and hoped for nothing other than a louder PR . I choose the SR as a reference because of the wattage (and it wasn`t a bassman!) .As you can deduct , I`m pretty ignorant on the world of circuits . That`s why I posted here in hopes of some good guidance .
OK ... I`m not interested in a Boogie sonic ...I really want a LOUDER PR and am encouraged by your posts . I`m interested in MAX headroom since I already have the Clark Kanee for the 6V6 crunch .

....I guess my remaining doubt is ... HOW much louder can I get it ??

and...........

Is a SS rect worth considering ? I realize it would no longer react like a PR without a tube rect . Could I get more of a 1/2 of a Twin Reverb sonic w/ a SS rect ????

[phsyconoodler]

I have built many High Powered Princeton Reverbs with 50 watt OT's and 6L6's and they are unique.They don't sound like other blackface amps and they don't sound like a 'louder' princeton either.They are way louder than the stock 6v6 equipped PR and have much more bottom.they have a sweetness to the cleans like the 6v6's but have that huge bell-like bottom that only a 6L6 can give you.

[ChrisGS]

I've read a description (Tube Amp Book by Aspen Pitman) that the early Boogies were a Tweed Bassman circuit, and I have to disagree. The schematics that I've seen for production Boogies look nothing like a Tweed Bassman, and actually like a modified "Blackface" circuit.

Also, no Boogie amp that I've heard sounded at all like a Bassman to me.

A buddy of mine has a Blackface Princeton, and I like the sound of that amp a lot...Beefing one up with a bigger output transformer and some Tad shortbottle 6l6wgctubes (my favorite) seems like it could be a great idea, and I would think that it would sound nothing like a Boogie.

Chris.

[John Phillips]

I've read a description (Tube Amp Book by Aspen Pitman) that the early Boogies were a Tweed Bassman circuit, and I have to disagree. The schematics that I've seen for production Boogies look nothing like a Tweed Bassman, and actually like a modified "Blackface" circuit.

Also, no Boogie amp that I've heard sounded at all like a Bassman to me.Randall Smith of Mesa states clearly that the first 'Princeton Boogies' were a Tweed Bassman circuit (it's on their website). This isn't the same as the production Boogie MkI though, which is nothing like the same - it came after the 'cascading gain' preamp, which was later.


BTW, if you're going to beef up a Princeton with a 50W transformer set, you'll also need to increase the value (possibly) and voltage rating (definitely) of the filter caps, and probably change some resistor values in the B+ chain, as well as the bias circuit. Apart from that it should be fairly straightforward. No reason you couldn't go to a solid-state rectifier too if you wanted.