Expression System?

[clothwiring]

So I love my new Taylor 714ce as an acoustic...but the expression system leaves alot to be desired. Can anybody tell me what they did to get a better amplified tone from their Taylor without modding the body of the guitar? Thanks.

[royd]

I've heard people complain about the expression system but haven't played one enough to know what the issues are. What is it that you don't like and what is the rest of your path?

Again, I've not used one but the design is similar to what I've always prefered - a mag and top mounted sensor. I wouldn't be surprised if Chris Proctor didn't play a significant role in the design as that is what he advocated for years, using a Sunrise and some kind of surface mount transducer.

[clothwiring]

The tone isn't very acoustic like, the system is unbalanced across the bridge (the b and e strings are noticeably louder) and the tone is a tad muddy at times (sounds like there's some gain in there)? I had a K&K Pure Western Mini in another guitar that after you eq out the brittle top end and watch your stage volume really sounded great. Keep in mind the 714ce is a phenominal guitar as a straight acoustic, I love it very much.

[clothwiring]

I talked to my tech and to Taylor. Both said that a good key to the great sound is a tip ring sleave > male xlr cable. The 2nd thing that was stated that if I'm getting the gainy/overdrive type tone that one of the Body Sensors could have failed. I spoke with Mike Tobin at Taylor who was through, succinct and helpful in giving me direction in resolving the issue. So I'm off to get that cable and see if that resolves my issues. I've had a few people say that when setup correctly the ES system does rock. So I have faith that I can make it rock. :)

[kensmith]

head over to AGF (acoustic guitar forum) and do some searches on presonus eq3b , k4 and bbe acoustimax.
Lots of discussion on how to tame and manage the mids of the ES system. Not mod required and hardware runs from around $70 (parametric eq) to $500 (k4), with my favorite in the $125 range (bbe acoustimax).

[p.snail]

One more thing to look for concerning the distortion thing. I sell Taylors and I had a regular customer come in and was just fit to be tied about the distortion he was getting out the system. We plug it in and sure enough, sounded like a$$. A loose ball end off a broken string was stuck to the bridge sensor. Removed it and the guitar was right as rain. Maybe just check, you never know. I wouldn't of ever thought of that, but the lady at Taylor said that happens a lot.

[Godslove]

I have some difficulty getting my ES to work with my amp and church system.

Though changing the cables and Batteries, i will have a kind fuzzy noisy sound from the speaker and it will go louder as my volume increases. I also realize that i need to increase the volume of my Taylor compared to another of my entry level acoustic to actually hear myself on stage. I use the same cables and same speakers but with my entry level acoustic, it was perfectly ok..no fuzzy sound at all. Any ideas?

[Jliu59]

The first time I heard the ES, I was actually really impressed. However, since the system has so many parts, there's that much more that goes wrong.

[Jliu59]

I really don't like the ES anymore, it can buzz, distort , adn fail too easily

[The Pup]

Regarding Taylors,

My 814CE with ES is my least favorite acoustic pickup setup.

My 914CE and 855CE (I also used to have a NS72CE too) with the old Fishman Prefix Blender system works far better to me (easy to dial in great acoustic tones).

[Godslove]

Regarding Taylors,

My 814CE with ES is my least favorite acoustic pickup setup.

My 914CE and 855CE (I also used to have a NS72CE too) with the old Fishman Prefix Blender system works far better to me (easy to dial in great acoustic tones).


Yeah, i own a locally made Acoustic with a Fishman Prefix and it was so easy to use and no hassle at all..

[Nuclearfishin]

I think part of the issue is what people's expectations are. The ES was designed to be as flat of a response as possible while some of the other systems may ad color (whether they were trying to or not). With the ES, it needs to be setup just right with your guitar, amp, style, etc and it can sound awesome. Rupert Neve is one of the guys that designed it--the system basically has 3 mini accelerometers inside the guitar and is quite a unique piece of equipment. One of the engineering professors here at Purdue consults for Taylor and once you understand how to setup the system, it can be quite good--amazing actually.

[geetarman]

I had a Taylor 814 with ES and ended up selling it because of the hot B, buzzing and it sounded horrible when flatpicked. There are far better after market options that are far less invasive to the guitar.

[Trandy]

I think the ES system is very disappointing tonally.

I have been selling guitars for almost 30 years...Taylor guitars for over 20 years... and I have a hard time imagining what Taylor was thinking when they introduced this pickup system. The "B" and "G" string are horribly nasal-sounding and the low end is muddy as hell.

I have tried it with both types of cables through probably a half-dozen different acoustic amps....and I just can't make it sound good to my ears.

Thin...nasally..."honky" sounding....everything I don't want an acoustic pickup to sound like.

Taylor guitars are wonderful instruments in every way...except for that blasted ES system.

I have a hard time visualizing the engineers at Taylor unveiling this new system to their "people" and everyone standing around going..."Oh yeah...that's it....that sounds great"!

YMMV

[occimoron]

I was just checking out some Taylors with ES yesterday. I walked into the store and a friend was playing one through an acoustic amp (Genz?), and having a terrible time. I suggested he plug into the little PA there, and he got a much better sound. we tried several models. they all sounded pretty good unless the volume was up too high, when a little distortion occurred. on some the sound higher on the neck was too electric. but mostly good. I've read several reviews that suggest that they fail frequently though. sound good today, bad next month. Maybe a QA or manufacturing problem.

I'm going with the fishman ellipse matrix blend.

[waxnsteel]

IMO, it sounds like a really good magnetic pickup. I don't like magnetic pickups in an acoustic. In particular, I don't like the way it sounds when you play anywhere past the 4th fret. It sounds like when you strum over then neck - a sound I don't like for acoustic guitars.

It certainly doesn't sound "just like it does unplugged only louder," but the dynamic range and volume before feedback are phenominal. My girlfriend has one, and I've worked with it at home and tried to get a sound I could like out of it, and failed. I sat in with a friend, with it, still wasn't liking it, and I used it on one of my gigs, and that picking over the neck tone just gets to me. There's no dialing it out. The ES is certainly not a "flat sound", and is colored as much as (if not more than) any other system out there.

As for distortion issues, I never had any with that particular guitar.

[John Phillips]

IMO Taylor have seriously shot themselves in the foot with this system.

It's extremely fussy with what (and how) you plug it into, doesn't sound even like what people expect an amplified acoustic to sound like, let alone what an unamplified acoustic sounds like, doesn't have enough onboard control, seems to have reliability problems, and is so invasively 'part of the guitar' that it's difficult to remove it or replace it with anything else.

My old 312CE with a Fishman Prefix and an added Rare Earth soundhole pickup sounds far better. (In fact, my even older Fender HMT with its primitive magnetic/piezo electrics sounds better.) FWIW, I can't use a balanced output since I often run my acoustic guitar through a pedalboard.

I like Taylor guitars, but I'll never buy another electro-acoustic from them unless they drop this system.

[rollingdam]

I bought a new 410CE this year because I loved the unplugged tone. Once I plugged it in however I found it tubby sounding.

I picked up a 1971 martin D 35 with an undersaddle pickup-probably Fishman, and I like the amplified tone much more than the Taylor.

I traded the Taylor with another guy for hid 1994 larrivee with no electrics and I am happy.

[JohnHorne]

I just bought a Taylor GS with the expression system. Love the guitar.

For the expression system: I don't love it - or hate it. I plugged it into several amps and PAs in the store and it sounded very different in each situation. I have an active DI with a semi-parametric EQ and I can usually tweak it to my satisfaction. I've given up on getting anything more than just a decent acoustic sound live. I've spent hundreds on pickup systems and nothing has ever made me happy. I just hope it doesn't fail on me...