Do any of you guys master to analog tape?

[papa taco]

Even to VHS tape. I read years back about people "warming up" their roland workstation mixes by mastering right to a vhs tape and then copying back that into the workstation before burning a cd.

Thoughts?

[AndrewSimon]

Even to VHS tape. I read years back about people "warming up" their roland workstation mixes by mastering right to a vhs tape and then copying back that into the workstation before burning a cd.

Thoughts?

:rotflmao

I think those days are over.....
Unless you are after a retro Lo-Fi sound I don't see any possible advantage of goint to tape.
I use plugs, especially TRacks to warm things up, there are many others.
:YinYang

[drfrankencopter]

Back in the old old days, when cassette 4 tracks were what you home recorded with then mastering (or even just bouncing) to VCR was common since high end VCRs had pretty good fidelity and low noise.

Those days are over...

But analog tape ain't dead, I know if I had a good 1/2" machine, or even an excellent 1/4" machine, I'd be mastering to it for some projects. I miss the sound of my 2" deck, but don't miss the tape cost, or maintenance...2 channels would have been easier.

I'm pretty sure that the big studios still keep 1/2" 2-track decks around...it's a good format.

Cheers

Kris

[loudboy]

Back in the dawn of CD's, the first thing a lot of mastering houses would do was dump your mix to a great analog 2-track machine and then bring it back in.

Usually didn't tell the clients, who insisted on the "DDD" symbol on their disks.

Loudboy

[LSchefman]

I mixed to analog two track open reel machines (a Fostex with center channel timecode to use SMPTE to sync to picture, and an Otari without a timecode channel) for years (1985-92ish) before the era of the DAT machine or later, the ability burn a CD.

I recall A/Bing my 48K DAT mixes from my then-industry-standard Panasonic SV3800 against my analog machines, and easily hearing the soundstage collapse when flipping the switch from the analog machines to the early digital machine.

Except for a miniscule amount of tape hiss, the analog machine sounded better. Caveat: AT THAT TIME. There have been improvements in converters that would make this comparison much more difficult now.

But here's the thing: Unlike cases where you deliberately overloaded the tape on a 2" machine to slam the track, a mixdown machine was operated to get a clean, great sounding mix, and generally we didn't overload them to oversaturate the tape.

So the analog masters I made back in 1992 didn't sound "warmer", they just sounded better, with a greater depth of field and a bigger soundstage.

I still think that's the best reason to master to analog tape. Accuracy.

If what you want is to overload the tape and get distortion, or go lo-fi with a cassette or VHS tape, that's cool but there are lots of plugs that will do it, too.

This whole concept of "WARMING UP" audio is kind of a misnomer to me; if what you want is to simply roll off the high end and add distortion, hell, you can do it a lot of ways without introducing the other anomalies of an old VHS machine, such as wow and flutter. Run a feed off your console to a guitar amp if you want warm and distorted (kidding).

Seriously, there are some plugs that work fine for this.

[papa taco]

Good points all. But I'm running an 8 year old Roland VS1680. Its ad converters aren't exactly...great.

But I suppose the VHS tape thing woudn't be an improvement. Just curious.

I tend to not use the horrible mic pres in the Roland and use an HHB Radius 40 instead. I'm also considering a FMR RNP. Half decent outboard gear should get me where I want to be. And as long as I'm not bouncing around tracks too much within the Roland, fidelity should remain ok. It's my understanding that the Roland uses some form of data compression.

[GaryNattrass]

I havent directly mastered to tape in a long while but I do have a Revox Pr99 that I insert across my pro Tools main output and run 15 ips across the record and playback head for tape saturation and depth.

[voodoosound]

I have a 2 inch 2 track studer that everything I touch gets dropped to before its final. Analog still has a quality that digital can't touch. I don't care what programs you are using. I have tried most of them out there. Digital is great for post production. But to create a masterpiece you need the combination of both.

[papa taco]

What does it cost to pick up something like a half decent analog tape unit? Is there any modern ones (boutique I would imagine) or is it strictly a vintage thing? I'm imagining big $$, unfortunately.

But anything to give my mixes a late 60's or early 70's kind of vibe.

[GaryNattrass]

What does it cost to pick up something like a half decent analog tape unit? Is there any modern ones (boutique I would imagine) or is it strictly a vintage thing? I'm imagining big $$, unfortunately.

But anything to give my mixes a late 60's or early 70's kind of vibe.

My experience is that you can pick up a decent quarter inch machine for not a lot of $$$

I was lucky that I was given my PR99 as a gift as I used to work in TV where it was in active service.

I also have an Akai quarter track machine that I paid $200 for about 6 years ago.

I was offered a full studio studer A80 mastering machine last year but the thing is SO big that I accepted the PR99 as it is a bit more home friendly.

Here is a domestic version for not much $$$:http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOX-A-77-REEL-TO-REEL-DECK-14_W0QQitemZ320154684556QQihZ011QQcategoryZ67812QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
A bit more for a pro machine tho:
http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOX-PR-99-PROFESSIONAL-REEL-TO-REEL-TAPE-RECORDER_W0QQitemZ260156809021QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6 7812QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[franksguitar]

I still have Sony I got for $15 at an auction years ago and JVC 2 track 1/4 inch new I got in 1970 for $100 and I picked up a few years ago a Fostex A8 8 track 15 IPS 1/4 inch for $150. I sometimes do a digital to analog and back. I think in the chain using a good tube emulator like a top of the line Avalon or to the low end an ART or Joe Meek or or pick up a couple Neve channel strips if you can find them you can do it right in the digital domain. I certainly agree that analog tape you can push peaks without the horrible digital gritty white noise if you peak out. You need to compress to keep the peaks down.

[AndrewSimon]

Here is a domestic version for not much $$$:http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOX-A-77-REEL-TO-REEL-DECK-14_W0QQitemZ320154684556QQihZ011QQcategoryZ67812QQ ssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
A bit more for a pro machine tho:
http://cgi.ebay.com/REVOX-PR-99-PROFESSIONAL-REEL-TO-REEL-TAPE-RECORDER_W0QQitemZ260156809021QQihZ016QQcategoryZ6 7812QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Many years ago......I used to be a tech who repaired among other things reel to reels.
The PR-99 is cool the other one, not so hot...... I just can't imagine my self hunting after these tapes, cleaning and aligning heads, dealing with aging dried out rubber parts, hiss, hum, wow, flutter, squeaky motors and capstains..... it's so last Century...... :(

[rewt_]

Unless you are after a retro Lo-Fi sound I don't see any possible advantage of goint to tape.
I use plugs, especially TRacks to warm things up, there are many others.
:YinYang
Tape sounds different than TRacks or any other software. VHS is pretty ridiculous, but mixing down to 1/2" gives a lot of depth to recordings, even if they were completely recorded in the digital realm. Keep in mind that with cheap D/A converters you will probably suffer at least audible signal degradation.

[papa taco]

I still have Sony I got for $15 at an auction years ago and JVC 2 track 1/4 inch new I got in 1970 for $100 and I picked up a few years ago a Fostex A8 8 track 15 IPS 1/4 inch for $150. I sometimes do a digital to analog and back. I think in the chain using a good tube emulator like a top of the line Avalon or to the low end an ART or Joe Meek or or pick up a couple Neve channel strips if you can find them you can do it right in the digital domain. I certainly agree that analog tape you can push peaks without the horrible digital gritty white noise if you peak out. You need to compress to keep the peaks down.

I've always heard the Joe Meek stuff has a lot of character. Might be something for me to look into.
:cool:

[KungFuLio]

studer 820 1/4" 30IPS


... when the client will buck up for the tape

[franksguitar]

A few mentioned VHS tape. Believe it or not I use a Sony VHS stereo VCR and a mixer to do live 2 track recordings and then re-eq and burn to CD. When I record live I do a board feed and 2 room mikes. I've had hard drive lockup and could not open data on a Tascam DP01FX for live previously, so the VHS worked great, its cheap and does not fail. I'm considering getting a Korg D888 for live 8 track w/discreet miking and then dumping it into my PC or my 16 track.

[Meriphew]

My latest album was mixed down to 1/2" tape (Ampex ATR 102). If you can afford the cost of tape, and have access to a 1/2" or 1/4" machine (Studer, Ampex, ATR), the results are well worth it IMO.

[Meriphew]

What does it cost to pick up something like a half decent analog tape unit? Is there any modern ones (boutique I would imagine) or is it strictly a vintage thing?

http://www.atrservice.com/