Fender vs. MusicMan [Archive]

Y-roc?

09-05-2007, 11:23 PM

Soon I will purchase a bass in the $1,000-$2,000 range and I want Fender Jazz type specs and an active EQ. I've pretty much have it narrowed down to two* basses: 1) Fender American Deluxe Jazz Bass (FADJ) and 2) MusicMan Sterling HS (MMS). Which one would you choose and why?

Playability is most important to me, but sound is also very important. I will primarily use this in the studio for home recording projects.

So far I really like the quick neck, low action, solid construction, and beefy bridge of the MMS, but am not too keen on the look, don't care for the MusicMan "growl," it's heavy, the bass feels a bit "petite," and the EQ seems a bit noisy (especially the highs).
I prefer the look and punchy sound of the FADJ but it almost sounds synthetic (especially through headphones), the action is not as impressive as the MMS, the neck is not as quick as the MMS, the bridge seems wimpy, overall it feels a bit flimsy, and I'm worried about the longevity of the neck and wonder about the overall construction of the bass (but especially the neck).

Let the great debate begin. Which bass do you prefer and why?

Thanks in advance for your input.

(Also: maple vs. rosewood neck. I like maple, but will maple make either one of these basses too bright?)

*G&L was once in the running but their jazz bass is passive and I recently played an L-2000 and I couldn't coax one decent sound out of it (okay, maybe one). Great looking, though, and fantastically constructed. I wish it sounds like it looks.

tkozal

09-06-2007, 06:13 AM

heh..I own both...a 05 Am deluxe, and a 98 or so Sterling, but with a single humbucker. I play the Am Deluxe all the time, the Sterling sits in its case. I like the feel of the Fender neck better, and I think I get many more tonal options than the Sterling.

I did look at the HS Sterlings and Rays when the came out (some HH's) also. I found the switching noisy and the EQ poor. I find the sound of the MM bucker to be too raw, give me a Fender P pup any day.

I have no concerns about the Fender necks, and I like their string thru bridges.

Maple can be brighter than rosewood, but a lot of that is also how you play and what type of strings you use.

I also own a bunch of other Fenders, a 65 J, a 64 P, a 62 Jazz reissue, etc etc etc.. The 2005 Am Deluxe is my main player.

(and at talkbass.com you will get 5 pages of responses to your questions, not much here)

Y-roc?

09-06-2007, 01:23 PM

I play the Am Deluxe all the time, the Sterling sits in its case.

That's funny, 'cause I recently read the exact opposite! But, about the tonal variety, I think you're right. For example, type "Fender Jazz" into youtube.com and listen to some slections, and then type "MusicMan Sterling" into youtube.com and listen to some selections. Is it just me, or do the Fender clips all sound a little different and the Sterling clips all sound the same? I feel the same way when I play them at Guitar Center. You can't get away from the Sterling "growl," almost like it's a fretless with slight overdrive. Nice for Funk, not so nice for Indie-type or emo music (and I mean early Sunny Day Real Estate emo, not the crap you hear on the radio today), which is what I do. On the Fender, I can get a wide variety of sounds and I don't seem to hear the EQ like I do on the Sterling. Have you noticed this? Also, I can get a nice sound from the Fender with no EQ, but I have to crank up the Sterling EQ to get the sound I like. Hmmmm....

Any noise issues from the Fender single coils?

Also, have you noticed the "synthetic" sound I mentioned when the Fender is plugged into headphones via an amp? Since I'll use this bass primarily for recording, I'm more concerned with its sound going direct into the board via a DI box.

Thanks for your input!

(And about talkbass.com, did you mean that someone already posted on this very subject and that there are numerous replies already waiting for me to read, or just that if I posted this on talkbass.com that I'm likely to get more replies than I've recieved here?)

tkozal

09-06-2007, 02:19 PM

you will get a lot more replys on talkbass, but then there are a lot of Fender bashers

the Am Deluxe pups are noiseless...I wouldn't call the headphone sound of an am deluxe synthetic, its just cleaner than a Sterling, and more modern than a jazz passive sound...

Y-roc?

09-09-2007, 02:33 PM

Bassomatic

09-09-2007, 09:35 PM

The best of both worlds. Great basses for the dough:

http://www.lakland.com/basses/44-02.htm

tkozal

09-10-2007, 05:54 AM

heh! I was going to say: What happened on talkbass...a bunch of guys tell you you were a fool, and should buy a Lakland, a korean made one at that?

bwaahahahahahaha

the Musicman pup is really a P based thing, a Jazz bass pup is a different thing to me...a better comp are P's and Musicman..but as I said, I am not a fan of the MM humbucker..tooo raw....

Bassomatic

09-10-2007, 05:10 PM

heh! I was going to say: What happened on talkbass...a bunch of guys tell you you were a fool, and should buy a Lakland, a korean made one at that?

Heads up - it doesn't mnatter what country the cad cam machine is in.:eek:

Y-roc?

09-10-2007, 05:43 PM

Heads up - it doesn't mnatter what country the cad cam machine is in.:eek:

Funny!!!

Lakland isn't shy about telling you the difference between the Skyline series and the American mades: http://www.lakland.com/skyline_vs_us.htm

Some of those things don't matter to me, but some are why I want American quality not overseas corner-cutting. But, for $1,300 how "bad" can they be? I wish the Skyline 44-02 had a 1.5" neck. Then I'd seriously consider going the Lakland route.

Anyone play the Skyline 44-02s? Do they sound too bass-solo-ish? or can they produce some good rock/indie tones? The online audio files (http://www.lakland.com/audio.htm) sound nice, but I tend not to trust internet audio.

cwdaniel

09-10-2007, 06:33 PM

What, no one likes this topic? Not too many people at Talkbass are biting either. I guess the "vs." threads are annoying.

Anyway, if you have any experience on this subject, I'd appreciate your input.

Thanks!

Ok my .02, can't be worth much more at this point. For several years I've a MIA Jazz V Deluxe as my main player and a nameless asian origin Jackson as a backup. The Jackson neck is toast and may never be heard from again. So a few weeks ago I went looking for another second, with a better budget this time. I came home with a Music Man SR 5 HH.

Wow!

The Jazz has probably become second fiddle, but never out of the picture.
Maybe I'm just infatuated with the new one right now, but it's very enjoyable to play and hear.

tkozal

09-11-2007, 05:43 AM

feh...American vs Korean, Fender MIA vs MM MIA vs Lakland Korea...Either the MM or the Fender...not a fan of those Laklands...wood issues, metal issues, I don't like the sound of any I have played...to ibby for me.

funny guy...not....

Y-Roc, see I told ya so!

Bassomatic

09-11-2007, 07:30 PM

Funny!!!

Lakland isn't shy about telling you the difference between the Skyline series and the American mades: http://www.lakland.com/skyline_vs_us.htm

Some of those things don't matter to me, but some are why I want American quality not overseas corner-cutting.

What corner cutting? Flat sawn necks? Heavier woods?

Granted, I prefer their US models, but the Skyline line is damned consistent from bass to bass. Moreso than MM and Fender, imo, and I've played and owned quite a few basses (including the 3 brands being discussed).

Here's an idea - why not get a *used* US Lakland - no issues, there, and will easily trump a Fender or MM in build quality, setup and playability.;)

Bassomatic

09-11-2007, 07:32 PM

Thor

09-11-2007, 09:23 PM

FWIIW, I own a few Laklands, as well a a Fender, and am thinking about picking up a 'Ray. It would be for "that sound" that you mentioned - an agressive tone. I don't think that it would be a great option for a single "go-to" bass.

The Lakland is a nice bass for covering a lot of ground.

Happy hunting,

Edward

JamminJoe

09-13-2007, 10:36 PM

Y-roc?

09-14-2007, 12:19 AM

It only gets synthetic sounding if you use too much of the active eq. Keep it near flat to retain the natural tone.

That's good to know, thanks. Does it sound at all like a passive MIA Fender if all the EQs are in the neutral postion, or is the pre-amp sound still noticable?

tkozal

09-14-2007, 06:37 AM

you should do a search on talkbass for "g string issue" with Sterlings and Rays...I almost forgot about that whole issue, which used to be described on the MM website, but apparently is not anymore.

Y-roc?

09-14-2007, 02:21 PM

you should do a search on talkbass for "g string issue" with Sterlings and Rays...I almost forgot about that whole issue, which used to be described on the MM website, but apparently is not anymore.

Yeah, I've heard about the problems with the D and G strings on the Sterlings, so that's the first thing I listened for when I played them. The only time I noticed that these strings didn't ring out as loud as the E and A is when I just cranked the bass EQ up. Other than that, I didn't seem to notice any big issues.

JamminJoe

09-15-2007, 02:54 AM

That's good to know, thanks. Does it sound at all like a passive MIA Fender if all the EQs are in the neutral postion, or is the pre-amp sound still noticable?

I do not have too much experience with passive J's, but I do prefer my settings to be near flat on the Amdlx. Try one with the SCN pickups - most people say these do the best job of getting the passive tone, but you really have to try it for yourself.

Even though I set the EQ neutral on the Amdlx, I still prefer an Amdlx over a standard passive J, because I like the option of being able to dial myself above the mix by bumping up the lows or the mids on the EQ. I also prefer the smaller body of the Amdlx.

Bassomatic

09-15-2007, 03:05 PM

Y-roc?

09-15-2007, 03:24 PM

I still prefer an Amdlx over a standard passive J, because I like the option of being able to dial myself above the mix by bumping up the lows or the mids on the EQ. I also prefer the smaller body of the Amdlx.

I'm also drawn to the Am Dlx J-B because of the slighty smaller bod..as well as the 22 frets. The EQ is just a bonus...but I also like having the option of dialing in a sound on the fly from my bass. If they made a passive MIA J-B with the small body, at least 21 frets, rolled fingerboard edges, and "highly detailed nut and fret work," I might consider going passive.

Thanks for your input!

tkozal

09-16-2007, 07:35 AM

tkozal-

Class guy...you take indirect potshots at my posts, and then fail to ignore my direct and reasonable questions. Guessing you're a youngster?

The sonics of a MM have precious little to do with a P. Gotta wonder about your experience level and/or hearing.

Umm the Musicman pup is a HUMBUCKER...Leo was always trying to buck the hum. To me the single MM humbucker is a very different beast....than the double single coils of a jazz....it has much more midrange, and is more comparable to a P pup...so what if thats what I think? It's from 30 years of playin... man...you need to chill.

so as to the rest of yout DIRECT attack on me, no I am not a child, PM me, and I can show you what I am about...

Ibby...if you have been around, you would know what "Ibby" means....Ibanez...To me Lakland have a resonance that I do not care for...it's like me preference, my opinion, etc...can you handle such things?

yes, and I also come here every 3 hours so I can respond to your posts..I do have other things to do in my life....

woster

09-17-2007, 11:39 AM

Don't get the musicman if you don't like its growl - it's darn near impossible to dial out without losing its balls. I've had 2 stingrays, and they were both very good but the MIA Deluxe has a lot more sounds. It only gets synthetic sounding if you use too much of the active eq. Keep it near flat to retain the natural tone.

I completely agree on this. After playing a Stingray for about a decade, I started to become a bit fed up with its constant growl. It's possible to EQ it out of the signal, but in my case all that remained was a rather dull tone. Last year I tried the MIA Deluxe J, and noticed it offered a LOT more sounds. To me it also sounded synthetic with too much active EQ-ing. But in the end I didn't get the Jazz, because it didn't feel 'right' in my hands.

Oh, just one thing on MM basses in general: my impression is their construction is very very solid compared to the MIA Js I've played so far.

TedintheShed

09-17-2007, 01:09 PM

I guess the "vs." threads are annoying.

Yup. No worries though

Anyway, if you have any experience on this subject, I'd appreciate your input.

Thanks!

I think the lack of esponses may be due to the fact that many folks really don't like either bass. Personally, I'm not a fan of the Leo Fender builds (and I've owned both)- they feel clunky to me and look medicore for the most part.

Don't take that as a bash if you do like them- to each their own and you have to give credit where credit is due.

Bassomatic

09-17-2007, 06:13 PM

the Musicman pup is really a P based thing, a Jazz bass pup is a different thing to me...a better comp are P's and Musicman..but as I said, I am not a fan of the MM humbucker..tooo raw....

This seems to be contradicted by your second post:

Umm the Musicman pup is a HUMBUCKER...Leo was always trying to buck the hum. To me the single MM humbucker is a very different beast....

My point was that the classic passive P sounds very little like the typical, active (and hyped) MM. The fact that they’re both humbuckers is pretty meaningless, when you get right down to the sound of the instruments they live in. Sonically a MM is closer to the classic J thing (not a great comparison, but certainly closer, to my ear, than the one you made above).

I’m not questioning your “experience”, but rather the clarity of the advice you dispense.

[As to dissing overseas instruments, I'll take my Korean JO5 over any new, non-CS Fender I've played or owned in the past few years. (I've been playing long enough to know a superior instrument without having to look at where the thing was assembled). Of course it's not as good as the Fender P/J I've played for 26 years, but it's barely broken in yet.]

JamminJoe

09-17-2007, 07:15 PM

I think the lack of esponses may be due to the fact that many folks really don't like either bass. Personally, I'm not a fan of the Leo Fender builds (and I've owned both)- they feel clunky to me and look medicore for the most part.

You're kidding right? Yeah that Leo....if only he could've built a popular bass guitar.

biffonbass

09-17-2007, 08:01 PM

I used a Stingray for about 6 months and it had it's own sound.
Not like a P or J bass at all.
A bit more of an edge.
It was easily smoothed out by dealing off the mid & hi at the amp.
I now have a Sub bass as a back up to my back up.
It has a very agressive sound.
With the active eq, you can lay off the treble at the guitar.
It can get a bit bright, almost brittle.
I deal the hi off a lot.
Otherwise good thump.
Most people don't like the line-x type finish,
but the neck on it and on the ray are/were very nice.
Set up was good stright from the shop.
Very good price.
Discontinued now. (the sub bass)
Got rid of the ray because it was too heavy for me.
Still prefer my koa warmoth mini j w/ carvin h-bucking j pickups,
but I still play my mm sub bass a lot.
Just a different sound.
Like dancing with a different girl.

TedintheShed

09-18-2007, 09:12 AM

You're kidding right? Yeah that Leo....if only he could've built a popular bass guitar.

No, I'm not. If many folks on this BBS used them then there would be more responses, don't you think?

I never denied that Fenders weren't widely used- they are to this point the most widely recorded bass guitar in the world. That will change over time though.

With the advent of more boutique builders (including Fender clones like Sadowsky and Lull) over the last decade or so that is definately changing. I haven't owned a Fender for years. There are simply too many great basses being built with better quality and that fits individuals likes better than the "one size fits all" approach that was suffered before. Hell, even Carol Kaye no longer uses them, and she was responsible for a large chunk of those aforementioned recordings.