Getting wide, up front, and full vocals???

[dmbandtimmy]

I recently recorded a couple friends. They both play guitar and one sings. Not a big fan of the music or the kids voice, but thats another thing :)

I am pretty happy with the guitar sounds. I mixed the Ocean song first and only added eq, compression and reverb to the vocals. However, on the song called falling I added delay to the voice. I thought that would make it wider, but it makes it sound like it has a chorus effect or harmonizing sound going on with the vocals :/

Any suggestions on how to get the vocals wide and present? And if any one has any suggestions on how to make anything else sound better I would really like to hear it. Thanks! :dude

Edit: Forgot the link to the songs : http://music.mp3lizard.com/sunsetstudios/

[chrisgraff]

Stereo pitch-shift:

Bus the vocal to an aux track (with your fav. pitch shift plug-in)

+8 cents on one side / -8 cents on the other.

Blend underneath the original track.

This is different than a Chorus, in that the pitch-shift doesn't modulate.

[LSchefman]

I don't understand terms like "wide"...I want my vocal tracks sitting in the mix so that they sound balanced, and you can hear the nuances of the vocal performances. And I want them up front in the middle of the stereo field.

If you spread them wide - I'm guessing at what you mean by this - where are you going to have room in the mix for anything else?

But I can add to the "things to try" list to improve vocals:

The obvious, but I'll restate anyway - great mic, comparable mic preamp.

I like to use light compression while tracking; depending on the compressor, I'll usually use around 3:1 with the threshold set at about -10 or so as a starting point. Set attack and release times to where they don't round off the transients or pump. Oh yeah, use a good compressor.

Usually, I won't have to compress again during the mix, depending on the mics, but if I do, another round of light compression will usually balance things out nicely. In the mix, I'll use a different compressor, with different characteristics than the one I tracked with.

EQ. I like to add a little sparkle if the mic doesn't have enough, around 12-14K. I'll usually carve a db or two out between 300 and 500 Hz so the vocal cuts and doesn't have too much "chestiness". This will depend on the mic; with most Neumanns, I have to cut in that range if I close-mic. With something bright like a Blue Mouse, I don't have to. Sometimes adding a little boost at 1.5-2K will improve the "cut" of the vocal in the mix or address boxiness, like you sometimes get with a 414.

I'm not into using very much reverb on vocals; I will sometimes add a few db of a good plate reverb, very sparingly.

I will somtimes use a tempo-synced delay, again, usually at the lowest audible setting. I'll often set one side to quarters and the other to sixteenths to start, with very little feedback. I don't want to have the delay stand out, I just want it to add a little something to the track.

[jzilla]

Stereo pitch-shift:

Bus the vocal to an aux track (with your fav. pitch shift plug-in)

+8 cents on one side / -8 cents on the other.

Blend underneath the original track.

This is different than a Chorus, in that the pitch-shift doesn't modulate.

this is a nice sounding technique but doesn't collapse to mono well. it will cause comb filtering, resulting in a hollow ringy sound. it's always a good idea to test all widening effects in mono to see if they cause phase issues.

try different reverbs panned hard L and R. or panning the dry sig to one side and a room verb to another...
-j

[dmbandtimmy]

Thanks for all the replies. Maybe wide isn't exactly the term I was looking for. I just want the vocals to be more up from and full is the best way I can describe it. I'll take the suggestions and post the results. Thanks! :AOK

[MichaelK]

I just want the vocals to be more up from and full is the best way I can describe it.

I haven't listened because all I have here are laptop speakers, but I'll reply to what you said.

When I say I want vocals more "out front" I usually mean, first and foremost, pushing up the fader. But I'm guessing you already tried that.

Have you tried more compression? I compress vocals a little bit both when tracking and when mixing, which sounds better to me than applying heavy compression once. You could try two compressors in a chain and see if you like that.

From what you say it sounds like you might have a lot more delay than you want. If the delay is almost as loud as your vocal, it will definitely result in a phasey effect and may even sound quieter. In general I don't put a lot of delay on lead vocals, as I'm usually going for a natural sound, but your thing might work better with more.

If you still want the vocals sounding more up-front and in your face without sounding shouted, over-loud or over-compressed, you might try recording him more up-front and in your face, i.e. closer to the mic. If you can get hold of a figure-of-eight, omni or multi-pattern mic through which your singer sounds good, then he can get as close as you want without added proximity effect. Unless you like what proximity effect does for his voice, that alone might make it more "full." You won't know until you try.

[headstack]

Be careful with reverbs and delays on vocals. What's the difference from a singer standing 2 feet from you and the same person standing 15 feet from you?
Time delay from source to listener.
Too much delayed signal can move the vocal away from the apparent desired position. Use your ears, close your eyes and listen to the soundfield. Is it believable, does it translate to what you intend?
Have fun!!