65 Fender Deluxe

[Jeffj]

I just picked up a super clean 1965 Fender Deluxe. It is a true "closet classic" that has been sitting for many,many years. Origional cord, speaker, etc. I cleaned it up some (basically wiped it down with a wet rag) & it cleaned up great. I went to fire it up to see if it worked. It has sound on the normal channel, but is very weak. No sound on the vibrato channel. Now, I am sure it needs a cap job (taking it to my tech next week) at least. I only let it run for 1 minute at most, wasnt sure how bad I could screw something up letting it run.

Questions
1. What usually goes bad\issues in the amp from sitting for years. They claimed it "worked when they parked it."

I am hoping the output transformer is not bad. Anything easy I can check?


http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/customshoptele2000/65_Deluxe.jpg
http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa140/customshoptele2000/65_Deluxe2.jpg

[donnyjaguar]

Nice score!! Others are more expert on this amplifier so I'll let them field your questions.

[GearHeadFred]

Congrats - looks very very nice. I'm jealous.

I think the caps are your main concern. If it was truly "sitting" in one safe place (not moved around), you should be fine. Unless subjected to vibration or heat or moisture, tubes and transformers will be fine for a LOOOONG time. It's the electrolitic "goo" in the caps that dries out over time.

[Jeffj]

Thanks. I plan to pull the chassis this evening & look it over. I am hoping a cap job & some fresh tubes will bring it back to life. It definatly looks like it hasnt been played or moved much. The bottom of the amp is as clean as the top.

[Jeffj]

also....does any one stick with the origional Oxfords? I have a Weber 12F150 coming, which is what I plan to use. Just curious if anyone really liked the origional speaker. I had planned to box it up & use the Weber.

[mbratch]

Congrats - looks very very nice. I'm jealous.

I think the caps are your main concern. If it was truly "sitting" in one safe place (not moved around), you should be fine. Unless subjected to vibration or heat or moisture, tubes and transformers will be fine for a LOOOONG time. It's the electrolitic "goo" in the caps that dries out over time.+1 on that. If you plan to be playing the amp, I would replace the filter caps with new ones (if the ones in there are old). You can save the old ones to preserve a little more of the collectible value of the amp. But frankly, I haven't seen that cap replacement changes the value very much if at all. The danger in not doing the cap replacement is that you could potentially kill a transformer if a cap shorts out.

As far as the no sound or weak sound, you could check the simple stuff first: clean the tube socket contacts and check the speaker wiring and connections.

[mbratch]

also....does any one stick with the origional Oxfords? I have a Weber 12F150 coming, which is what I plan to use. Just curious if anyone really liked the origional speaker. I had planned to box it up & use the Weber.
I haven't tried an original Oxford. I can say that the 12F150 will give that amp a sweet, classic Fender tone especially with a Fender Strat. That's been my experience anyway. :)

[slider313]

Great score !! These are great sounding amps. Run it at 6 or 7 on the volume and it gives a big round tone.
As for the Oxford, box it and use the Weber. The Oxfords never sounded good.
The first thing I do when buying any vintage amp is check the fuse, to be sure it's the correct value. Something which should not be overlooked.

[TopBooster]

The first thing I do when buying any vintage amp is check the fuse, to be sure it's the correct value. Something which should not be overlooked.

+1000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[epluribus]

...& some fresh tubes will bring it back to life...

Personally, I'd keep as many of the OEM tubes as I could, they're very likely to be far better tubes than anything made now. Tubes generally don't tend to be damaged by aging, so unless you find a bad one, I'd definitely keep 'em in there. (I still have the original '68 Mullards in an old Univox.)

Caps, OTOH, don't age gracefully at all, and the electrolytics can cook a lot of that wonderful original circuitry, so I'd get 'em out of there for sure. The other caps, however, aren't as vital, and your tech may elect to leave 'em in for originality's sake.

On the speaker front, you can always run a new speaker for playing, and box up the original real good so you don't have to sweat beating it up crankin' the amp. Ted Weber recommends that sometimes.

If it was me, I'd do the minimum now and play the amp for a few months to get to know it before making any changes--ya might just like it the way it is.

Sounds like you got yourself a really cherry keeper there. :cool:

--Ray

[Jeffj]

Personally, I'd keep as many of the OEM tubes as I could, they're very likely to be far better tubes than anything made now. Tubes generally don't tend to be damaged by aging, so unless you find a bad one, I'd definitely keep 'em in there. (I still have the original '68 Mullards in an old Univox.)

Caps, OTOH, don't age gracefully at all, and the electrolytics can cook a lot of that wonderful original circuitry, so I'd get 'em out of there for sure. The other caps, however, aren't as vital, and your tech may elect to leave 'em in for originality's sake.

On the speaker front, you can always run a new speaker for playing, and box up the original real good so you don't have to sweat beating it up crankin' the amp. Ted Weber recommends that sometimes.

If it was me, I'd do the minimum now and play the amp for a few months to get to know it before making any changes--ya might just like it the way it is.

Sounds like you got yourself a really cherry keeper there. :cool:

--Ray

Unfortunately the origional tubes have been replaced. It has some older Fender labeled tubes with faded orange silkscreening on them. You can tell they are pretty old. I will definately go with the Weber & box up the Oxford. I am looking forward to hearing this amp when its in top notch shape. I gig with a late sixties Deluxe Reverb that I love, so I really want to hear this amp.

[Geetarpicker]

I currently have 2 non-reverb '64 Fender Deluxe amps, and have also owned about 3 others over the years. The last 3 of these came to me with all original parts, and the only thing needed to be changed were the PS caps under the can. I also like to swap out the "death cap" with is an .047 on the polarity switch. I also swap out the 2 prong cable for a 3 prong, which negates the need for the death cap replacement as long as the venue has proper grounds. The only issue with swapping out the power cable is finding a thin cable that will fit the original strain relief. I usually carefully trim the insides of the stain relief with an Xacto knife to allow me to reuse it with a new (probably slightly fatter) cord. By the way the best way to set the polarity is to plug in an unconnected (at the guitar side) cord and crank the amp and listen for any hum. Then switch the polarity to the position that hums the least and you are safe. The death cap is called such because if it ever was to short it could put full AC voltage on the chassis and guitar, but I've never seen one go bad. Still I'd replace that when you upgrade the cord. Probably the most common breakdown on these is there are several bare ground wires that connect to the chassis near the pots that tend to break loose. I think over time the original boards in these can warp a bit upwards from age and/or humidity, and then the ground wires get tugged on and snap off. It's an easy fix with a high wattage iron. That is the first thing I check when a channel is out, and I think half of my used Deluxes had this exact issue at some point but it only takes 1 minute to fix once you got the amp apart. I run a Weber 12F150 in both of my amps, a 25 watter in one and a 50 in the other. Interestingly either speaker gets pretty warm at the magnet when the amp is cranked hard for an entire gig, but I have yet to blow one up even the 25 watter. I then got the 50 watt version for my other Deluxe, but it also gets just as warm but is also fine and sounds the same as the 25 to me. I guess I run my Deluxe amps hard. The Webers are a little on the dark side tonally, but at gig levels sound nice, fat, and clear when miced up. The stock Oxford sounds OK at medium volumes, but doesn't stay very full sounding when cranked and is easily blown. The only Oxford I ever had lasted me about a week.

As much as I love my original '89 Trainwreck Express and '68 Marshall Superbass 100, my little Deluxes are my most used amps in my stash as they pack decent tones into the smallest living space.

By the way if your amp worked fine on one channel your output transformer should be fine. Your channel is probably out due to a busted solder connection (probably a ground wire break as noted earlier in my post) or a bad preamp tube.
If possible do not change out any of the original Blue "molded" signal caps, as the originals sound great and usually function great to this day. I bet most of those get swapped by techs for no good reason. The power supply caps are another matter, and by now are probably ready to blow and probably won't sound very good either so best get those changed. As always, make sure someone didn't put a 20 amp car fuse in the amp at some point! I seen that way too many times. Use what it says on the back panel, in a slow blow variety.

Killer amps!

www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall (http://www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall)

[Jeffj]

Probably the most common breakdown on these is there are several bare ground wires that connect to the chassis near the pots that tend to break loose. I think over time the original boards in these can warp a bit upwards from age and/or humidity, and then the ground wires get tugged on and snap off. It's an easy fix with a high wattage iron. That is the first thing I check when a channel is out, and I think half of my used Deluxes had this exact issue at some point but it only takes 1 minute to fix once you got the amp apart. I run a Weber 12F150 in both of my amps, a 25 watter in one and a 50 in the other.

I pulled the chassis last night & noticed that the board was warped up pretty bad. So, I will check the grounds around it. I bet that is what is going on with the vibrato channel. I will pull it again & check it out.

Glad to hear that the Weber is a darker speaker. I prefer a darker speaker on Fenders, so I dont have to dial the high end out so much. Thanks for the tips & I will post what I find.

[Jeffj]

Well...opened her back up & sure enough two connections are broken loose. I will resolder & see what happens.

What is the best way to clean the pots? They are extremely noisy\dirty...

[Axekisser]

Hey Jeff! I sent the Emi out today- check your personal E-mail. As far as cleaning the pots, use Caig De-oxit. You can pick it up at GC usually. Spray in to the pot opening and move the pot some to clean it. I just picked up a '68 PR that had scratchy pots and the cause was some weak coupling caps (leaky DC). Your problem may go away with a cap job. Nice score BTW! I need to get one of those too!

[Jeffj]

I currently have 2 non-reverb '64 Fender Deluxe amps, and have also owned about 3 others over the years. The last 3 of these came to me with all original parts, and the only thing needed to be changed were the PS caps under the can. I also like to swap out the "death cap" with is an .047 on the polarity switch. I also swap out the 2 prong cable for a 3 prong, which negates the need for the death cap replacement as long as the venue has proper grounds. The only issue with swapping out the power cable is finding a thin cable that will fit the original strain relief. I usually carefully trim the insides of the stain relief with an Xacto knife to allow me to reuse it with a new (probably slightly fatter) cord. By the way the best way to set the polarity is to plug in an unconnected (at the guitar side) cord and crank the amp and listen for any hum. Then switch the polarity to the position that hums the least and you are safe. The death cap is called such because if it ever was to short it could put full AC voltage on the chassis and guitar, but I've never seen one go bad. Still I'd replace that when you upgrade the cord. Probably the most common breakdown on these is there are several bare ground wires that connect to the chassis near the pots that tend to break loose. I think over time the original boards in these can warp a bit upwards from age and/or humidity, and then the ground wires get tugged on and snap off. It's an easy fix with a high wattage iron. That is the first thing I check when a channel is out, and I think half of my used Deluxes had this exact issue at some point but it only takes 1 minute to fix once you got the amp apart. I run a Weber 12F150 in both of my amps, a 25 watter in one and a 50 in the other. Interestingly either speaker gets pretty warm at the magnet when the amp is cranked hard for an entire gig, but I have yet to blow one up even the 25 watter. I then got the 50 watt version for my other Deluxe, but it also gets just as warm but is also fine and sounds the same as the 25 to me. I guess I run my Deluxe amps hard. The Webers are a little on the dark side tonally, but at gig levels sound nice, fat, and clear when miced up. The stock Oxford sounds OK at medium volumes, but doesn't stay very full sounding when cranked and is easily blown. The only Oxford I ever had lasted me about a week.

As much as I love my original '89 Trainwreck Express and '68 Marshall Superbass 100, my little Deluxes are my most used amps in my stash as they pack decent tones into the smallest living space.

By the way if your amp worked fine on one channel your output transformer should be fine. Your channel is probably out due to a busted solder connection (probably a ground wire break as noted earlier in my post) or a bad preamp tube.
If possible do not change out any of the original Blue "molded" signal caps, as the originals sound great and usually function great to this day. I bet most of those get swapped by techs for no good reason. The power supply caps are another matter, and by now are probably ready to blow and probably won't sound very good either so best get those changed. As always, make sure someone didn't put a 20 amp car fuse in the amp at some point! I seen that way too many times. Use what it says on the back panel, in a slow blow variety.

Killer amps!

www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall (http://www.myspace.com/glenkuykendall)


Again, thanks for all the advice. Just got the amp back today from my tech & it is in fine working condition now. Had a cap job done it, 3 prong cord & replaced power tubes & a few others. The power tubes were very noisy (mis-matched) & a few of the others were microphonic. I cant believe how stout these little amps are. I put the 50 watt Weber 12F150 in it & it sounds great. My tech has a 63 Pro & this Deluxe hung right there with it volume wise. Chained the channels together & this thing smokes. I have a gig tonight, so I will see how it does in the real world. So far, so good. Thanks again for all the help\advice.