What?! Am I a 6L6 guy afterall?! (Shiva)

[freaksho]

my current amp is a EL34 powered Marshall 2204, which i love. from this and my prefernce for british hard rock & metal tones i had been operating under a very snooty "EL34 is the only tube for rock" point of view. until this weekend.

i went to local store to once again play through the Bogner Shiva EL34 1x12 combo that blew me away about six months ago (which i plan to get it if/when i can afford it, but until then i have been reduced to occasional visitations. i hope they don't catch on and ban me. maybe i should start wearing a disguise). anyway, the amp had been sold. i was kinda bummed but i took the opportunity to at least give a try to the 6L6 combo they had, if nothing else to reinforce the superiority of EL34's. well, i was quite impressed:
-full, complex, chimey cleans
-rich, exciting edge-of-breakup tones
-mean, tight & clear crunch / higher gain

being kinda confused i decided to try the 2x12 EL34 combo they had to compare, even though it wasn't the same speaker (V30's). i was stunned how much less i liked these tones, especially in gain-ier territory. it was relatively buzzy and loose on the bottom. overall, much less exciting to me. wondering how much this had to do with the speakers i then compared this 2x12 combo to a 6L6 head & 2x12 cab version they also had. i went back and forth between the two for while and came to the same conclusion: i liked the 6L6 much more. (though overall i still liked the sound of the single CL80 speaker best of all.)

whoa! :crazy

i just wonder if any other older/vintage Marshall lovers have had a similar experience with the Shiva. it seems almost everyone prefers the EL34's in these, but i know there are a few 6L6 guys too.

[jamison162]

If you look at all of my Shiva comments/posts over the last year I've been saying this the whole time. Why are EL34's so popular? Because that's what everyone *thinks* is the one to get. Popular opinion, followers of the herd. How many Shiva owners or past owners do you think actually played both the EL34 and 6L6 Shiva before buying? Probably less than 20%.

I personally like the 6L6 Shiva MUCH better then the EL34. Better cleans, better crunch.

[freaksho]

If you look at all of my Shiva comments/posts over the last year I've been saying this the whole time. Why are EL34's so popular? Because that's what everyone *thinks* is the one to get. Popular opinion, followers of the herd. How many Shiva owners or past owners do you think actually played both the EL34 and 6L6 Shiva before buying? Probably less than 20%.

I personally like the 6L6 Shiva MUCH better then the EL34. Better cleans, better crunch.

yeah man, i have looked back and read what you've been saying. you're one of the few enlightened ones who followed their own path. :AOK

like you said most might not have tried both, but to be fair they may not have had the opportunity. and if that's the case it's still an amazing amp. i don't think the difference is TOO big.

[freaksho]

also, there's the big issue of playing alone in sound-proof room vs the band context. i wonder how this might change things. any thoughts here?

[rooster]

I think it matters on the amp in question (or AIQ).

rooster.

[jamison162]

So go get the 6L6 head, you won't regret it. I had a 6L6 1x12 combo but sold it. It was/is the heaviest 1x12 combo out there I think. I'de love a brnad new 6L6 head.

[freaksho]

So go get the 6L6 head, you won't regret it. I had a 6L6 1x12 combo but sold it. It was/is the heaviest 1x12 combo out there I think. I'de love a brnad new 6L6 head.

yeah, the weight of the 1x12 is definitely outrageous.
but like i said i really liked the sound of the CL80. and then for variety i could also use my 2x12 cabinet (V30/G12H30 mix).

but it don't matter - i can't afford one anyway.

[freaksho]

I think it matters on the amp in question (or AIQ).

rooster.

yep. i totally understand that now.

[rooster]

yep. i totally understand that now.

Always stay on top of your Acronyms. (or "A's")

rooster.

[justonwo]

Definitely depends on the amp. Master volume amps get a lot of their distortion character from the preamp. I generally like how they sound when paired with 6L6s. My NMV Marshall plexi clone is a different story though. EL34s sound great.

[the_Chris]

Some like the American sound, some like British... different flavors for everyone (I realize in an amp like the Shiva, it's not a night and day difference). I crave the midrange, so I gravitate to EL-34s and the EL-34 Shiva fits my needs in that regard.

[freaksho]

Some like the American sound, some like British... different flavors for everyone (I realize in an amp like the Shiva, it's not a night and day difference). I crave the midrange, so I gravitate to EL-34s and the EL-34 Shiva fits my needs in that regard.

exactly what i thought before this experience. but there's nothing mid-scooped about the 6L6 in this one, just more clear and grindy i'd say. but very middy regardless of which power tube.

[prsnstrat]

I lugged both the EL34 and 6L6 version home before I went with the 6L6 head. I'd love to have another one someday...or try the XTC. On the other hand, I do agree that in my experience I have preferred EL34's in NMV amps.

[stratzrus]

I crave the midrange, so I gravitate to EL-34s and the EL-34 Shiva fits my needs in that regard.

I dont think the 6L6s are particularly scooped but are relatively flat with a slight dip in the midrange. They also have a tighter bottom end and clearer high end.

EL34s sound much more colored and have a distinct midrange hump which I'm not particularly fond of although they clearly work well in a Marshall plexi type amp.

The previous poster hit it when he said that EL34s have a sweeter power amp breakup, but 6L6s still sound great, particularly with MV amps, and sound much better for the cleans IMO.

Of course the AIQ is always a critical factor.

stratzrus