Palomino V16 Rattling Noise...Help...

[cesargrc]

I purchase this amp new about three months ago in pretty much new condition and has worked and sounded great for practices. About three weeks ago it started to rattle/buzz. I took out all the tubes and swapped them out with some old tubes that I had laying around from other swaps. The problem continued and I tightened everything I could on the amp and the noise continued. Last weekend I decided to go out and buy a new set of tubes (2 mesa boogie el84's and 3-Tung sol 12ax7's). The noise went away at the shop and I used it for practice that evening for about two hours without a problem. The following day the rattling/buzzing came back. The unit does not have a stand-by but the factory tubes lasted at least three months. Some one mentioned that the sockets may be loose and causing rattling...can this be true. The noise is coming thru on the speaker. I had the same problem with my Bad Cat Cub II and preamp tube replacement solved the problem.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[rockon1]

Something else might be rattling.Hard to tell on combo's! Not sure how similar the amp is but my V32 had a rattle coming from the rear panel. I put some weatherstripping foam on the contact areas and it was gone. Also are the power tubes on the V16 secured by a cage like the V32 ? Bob

[cesargrc]

Yes the power tubes have the cage and the preamp tubes have covers. I tried it with the cage and covers and without and did not make a difference. Will a rattle in the rear panel sound thru the speaker??? Maybe I will remove the rear panel and try this...Do you think it may be a speaker problem. I notice the noise more on lets say open A string.

[rockon1]

If its definately coming out of the speaker I'd guess its the power tubes.Thing about a rattle in a combo is thats its are very difficult to pinpoint the source sometmes and it might sound like its coming from the speaker .If you have access to a 1x12 cab you could rule out the speaker but if it only happens at certain frequencies I doubt its bad. Of coarse if it is the power tubes rattling using a seperate cab might be misleading. You would know whether or nots its the speaker but thats about it.It still could be the tubes or anything else rattling since they are not being hit with vibrations from the internal speaker.

Meanwhile it cant to try a few things first. You can remove the rear panel(without touching anything inside of coarse!-that might definately hurt!-high voltages inside!) and seeing if the rattle goes away. Also make sure the speaker is tight (good and snug dont overtighten it) and you might want to try it with the front grill off(check to see if the screws are tight too) Check the chassis mounting screws too. Bob

[Gene]

If you have access to a 1x12 cab you could rule out the speaker but if it only happens at certain frequencies I doubt its bad.


I have an old Jensen C12R that buzzes only on the low F on guitar. So, it is certainly possible.

Buzzes are a pain. It can be almost anything and then sometimes the buzz is coming from outside of the amp but you swear it sounds like its coming from the amp.

So, 1)eliminate the speaker out of the equation. 2)Play the note that buzzes and feel around the amp. 3)check everything on the amp. 4)Tighten/loosen screws and try with some panels off, etc.

Really, process of elimination. It may take 5 minutes or you might never find it...

[cesargrc]

Guys,

Thanks for your input. I have tried taking everything apart and then putting it back together. I have also removed the reverb tank and still hear the buzzing/rattling. I will try using the amp thru a different speaker and see if I get any results. A thing I did notice is that is may not happen right away when I first turn on the amp. Lets say a couple of minutes and then is starts and will get worse with volume and bass. One question I do have the over tightening of the speaker. When I put it back together last time, I tried to make the speaker as tight as possible without stripping the wood. How does this affect the speaker? Could I have overtightened and make the noise issue worse???:worried

[Gene]

Do not overtighten the speaker. This can cause frame to distort shape. Try loosening it a bit. It should be tight enough so it feels firm with hand driver.

[rockon1]

Guys,

Thanks for your input. I have tried taking everything apart and then putting it back together. I have also removed the reverb tank and still hear the buzzing/rattling. I will try using the amp thru a different speaker and see if I get any results. A thing I did notice is that is may not happen right away when I first turn on the amp. Lets say a couple of minutes and then is starts and will get worse with volume and bass. One question I do have the over tightening of the speaker. When I put it back together last time, I tried to make the speaker as tight as possible without stripping the wood. How does this affect the speaker? Could I have overtightened and make the noise issue worse???:worried

Did you try playing it it with the back off? Or the grill off? Dont overtighten the speaker. Good and snug thats all. Bob Bob

[cesargrc]

Guys,

Thanks for the speaker advice...This was surely something I did not know. I will try your suggestions tonight and hope to have some more info tomorrow.

[rockon1]

FWIW- With a front loaded speaker its harder to cause damage from overtightening than rear loaded. Bob

[teleman55]

Been through all this on my V-32 (nice amp). Me and my son (the drummer) finally figured it out. Loosen each screw on the reverb tank about 5 half turns.

[cesargrc]

Guys,

I took off the rear panel last night and made it worse. Looks like the floating nuts vibrate when they are loose. I also decided to run the amp about 3ft away and hooked up the speaker output to a 4X12 cab. At lower volumes the buzzing went away (which was present in the combo at same volume). But once I increased the volume the buzzing/rattling noise was present thru the speakers in the 4X12 cab (bogner with V30's). Looks like I am going to try another set of NEW tubes and hope to get better results. I am hoping that the tube sockets are not loose or damaged but will have to inspect. By the way, I contacted Crate (Tech Support) and they were useless. Once I told them that I did not have the original recpt (bought used), they stopped returning emails...

[cesargrc]

Been through all this on my V-32 (nice amp). Me and my son (the drummer) finally figured it out. Loosen each screw on the reverb tank about 5 half turns.


Thanks for the info, but I completely removed the reverb tank and taped the lead ends from the amp. Still buzzes.

[Gene]

Time to burn some incense and invoke the buzz god... Is it a specific note that buzzes? You state it is the floating nuts. Not sure what that is but can you mute them? Any buzz?

Are you sure it is coming from the speakers? So many times, in my experience, it sounds like the speakers but it is something else in the room. Like one of the other 60 amp cabs in my studio...

If the buzz happens with different sets of speakers and cabs, I have to narrow it down to something in the circuit/chassis.

[rockon1]

Guys,

I took off the rear panel last night and made it worse. Looks like the floating nuts vibrate when they are loose. I also decided to run the amp about 3ft away and hooked up the speaker output to a 4X12 cab. At lower volumes the buzzing went away (which was present in the combo at same volume). But once I increased the volume the buzzing/rattling noise was present thru the speakers in the 4X12 cab (bogner with V30's). Looks like I am going to try another set of NEW tubes and hope to get better results. I am hoping that the tube sockets are not loose or damaged but will have to inspect. By the way, I contacted Crate (Tech Support) and they were useless. Once I told them that I did not have the original recpt (bought used), they stopped returning emails...

The tubes shouldnt rattle without the internal speaker to make them vibrate unless they are really prone to rattle and the vibes from the 4x12 are getting to them. I imagine I'd pop another set in though if I heard it coming out the the 4 x12 speakers. Like Gene said its sometimes hard to tell.

Sorry I didnt realize the nuts would rattle with the cover off the back. I was lucky and just put the foam on the back of mine ,put it back on and the rattle was gone. Never actually tried it without it on but I thought it might be a good way to check it-I was wrong obviously.

As far as tube rattle goes Ive had the best luck with Sovtek EL84M's - a military grade of EL84. Some say not the best sounding but it sure beats rattle. Plus they last a lot longer than EL84/6BQ5's. Ive learned to always have a few sets of power tubes around for all of my amps for back up/troubleshooting-especially the more tube hungry EL84 amps.Not to mention the hoard of pre amp tubes I have! Bob

http://thetubestore.com/russianel84m.html

http://www.tubedepot.com/so-el84m.html

[cesargrc]

I think the next step would be to completely remove the chassis from the combo and run the 4X12 cab. Then I will get a longer speaker cable and put the speaker cab in a different room. If I still hear it...new tubes...if it noise issue continues....ebay!

Guys, thanks for all your help.

[cesargrc]

I removed the amp from the cab this weekend and installed some EL84 Ei's I had laying around. The rattling noise was gone and decided to put the newer EL84's I had purchased 2 weeks ago and noise was gone. I think there is something in the amp casing or somehow its possible that because of its compact size, the tubes are too close to the speaker and may be causing this problem. I am going to try some different preamp tubes and see put it back together and see if this eliminates the rattling noise.

[dirtyfinger]

I'm having a similar problem with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. The rattling got to the point where it was driving me absolutely crazy. I tightened every screw and tried to chase down the rattle. Eventually, I loosened the chasis and put some weatherstripping foam around it and snugged everything back up. Most of the rattle was gone, but I think the tubes are now subject to rattle no matter what (they are relatively new JJ tubes). Well, after a bit of disgust, I took my guitar to GC to try some new amps. Well, guess what, I was getting tube rattle from every combo amp in the store (even ones that had never even been plugged in before). I think part of my problem is that I play a rather dark voiced Heritage H535 with my fingers (blues), giving a really deep tone, which is just shaking the tubes beyond their tolerance.

My solution to the problem - I bought an Avatar cab and run that instead of the speaker in the HRD. I can still hear some tube rattle from the amp sitting beside the 2x12 extension, but it isn't as bad as before and can probably be cured with a tube swap now. In the end, I guess tube rattle is just inherent in combo amps with the tubes mounted directly behind the speaker.

[Phineas]

I'm having a similar problem with a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. The rattling got to the point where it was driving me absolutely crazy. I tightened every screw and tried to chase down the rattle. Eventually, I loosened the chasis and put some weatherstripping foam around it and snugged everything back up. Most of the rattle was gone, but I think the tubes are now subject to rattle no matter what (they are relatively new JJ tubes). Well, after a bit of disgust, I took my guitar to GC to try some new amps. Well, guess what, I was getting tube rattle from every combo amp in the store (even ones that had never even been plugged in before). I think part of my problem is that I play a rather dark voiced Heritage H535 with my fingers (blues), giving a really deep tone, which is just shaking the tubes beyond their tolerance.

My solution to the problem - I bought an Avatar cab and run that instead of the speaker in the HRD. I can still hear some tube rattle from the amp sitting beside the 2x12 extension, but it isn't as bad as before and can probably be cured with a tube swap now. In the end, I guess tube rattle is just inherent in combo amps with the tubes mounted directly behind the speaker.

I've been having this rattle phenomenon w. a new allen encore i bought used off the bay. my tech and i took the whole thing apart trying to isolate the problem to no avail. A couple of days later, i was playing my vibrochamp and i heard the same noise. then i played a princeton reverb and practically heard it again. it's only when i play sustained low freq notes on the A or E strings w. clean tone. I started assuming that it's something that inherent in combo amps. After reading this, i'm even more convinced...sigh

[the_Chris]

From my experiences, I've found it to be correlated with the way the chassis is mounted to the cabinet. All of the screw retainers are crap and at loud volumes they rattle. I don't think there's really a lot you can do at that point besides rehouse the amp (or play around with alternate mounting methods). That's the one downside I've found about the series. Other than that, they're fantastic sounding amps for the money (unparalleled in my opinion)

If anybody knows of a good place where I can turn my V32 Palomino into a head, please let me know :)

[hamfist]

If I still hear it...new tubes...if it noise issue continues....ebay!


Not the most impressive thing I've read today. :nono

[Oldtone]

I have the same issue with a Palomino V15 and just run it through a cabinet and it does not rattle/vibrate. I've heard placing a piece of carpet between the speaker and tubes to absorb the vibrations may help, but this is a bad design with the tubes laying right over the speaker.
You might be really surprised when you run this amp through another cab. The stock speaker (Celestion 70/80?) really lacks bass. I ran mine though a Peavey 112e with the old Peavey speaker in there and the "chunck" came out of the Palomino like never before. Smoothed out the amp from top to bottom. So "chunck" the stock speaker or use a cab!

[jjasilli]

Re the separate cab: did you disconnect the combo speaker? Also, get or make a LONG speaker chord; disconnect the combo speaker and put the extn cab in another room, so that it can't rattle anything in the amp. If the extn cab is rattling in another room, make sure that cab is not buzzing with other amps.

Try disconnecting wires to and/or from the reverb tank. And play the amp without it. Does the rattling go away?

One thing you may be having speaker is break-up. Try speakers that don't break-up like a cab rated for 120 watts or more (though one would think the 4 X 12 should be sufficient here.). If possible try running both the combo speaker & extn cab together. Sometimes that works, but I don't know why.

Once a physical rattling and speaker break-up are ruled out, then the problem must be electronic and is being produced by the amp. Tubes should always be suspected first, but I think you tested that. If the tubes are OK then what you have is probably parasitic oscillation. This can be caused by bad lead dress; excessive gain in a preamp stage - maybe try a 12AT7 somewhere; bad filter cap, even if new; poorly grounded filter cap. One cure is a "snubber" or suppression cap, usually following the PI output.

Anyway, a hit and miss approach has not worked. You need to start over; make a check list. Go through all this stuff in a logical order so that one issue at a time can be ruled out with certainty. Keep a paper record or you will forget what you/ve done & get confused. Do a little at a time so you don't get frustrated.