So I need an AC/30... But, Like... Better.

[disaster]

I'm beginning the long quest of finding my next amp, which is something in the AC/30 vein. Anyone want to help?
I definitely want the basic AC/30 sound, albeit with more "Lushness" and "Harmonic Complexity." EL84's are a must. 2x12 combo is preferred. Don't need tons of gain, so EF86's are optional. Don't need to do the "Marshall Style" thing- got that covered. Here's what's in the running so far:

-Matchless DC-30
-Bad Cat Black Cat
-Top Hat King Royale
-Valvetech Hayseed
-Gabriel Voxer 33
-Savage Glas 30
-/13 RSA 31

What else should I be considering? What do you like out of the above list? Any/all opinions appreciated. Hook it up!

[hw2nw]

what do you need for volume? do you like the matchless/bad cat hi fi sound? master volumes? Cleans mostly?

If you want just clean stuff, the RSA31 is great. As far as an all-around AC30, you should check out one of the AC30CC's with blues, the Top Hat King Royale, and also that new AC30H2 (heritage) that's coming out next month.

If you're not worried about straying from the basic AC30 sound, the Black Cat and DC30 are great amps- much more steely and hi-fi but lots of fun to play.

[sickboy79]

Matchless DC-30 (SC or HC if you need single 1x12 or a head)
Bad Cat Black Cat
Top Hat King Royale
Divided By 13 RSA 31

All are outstanding amps and have their own take on that tone - AC-30 on steriods. I'm a Matchless HC-30 guy myself but, you couldn't go wrong with any of them. Matchless/Bad Cat/Divided By 13 are in a similar price range - with Top Hat not to far behind.

[todaystomorrow]

your description is the same sound that i am after and get from my Top Hat KR....... I think it's a better deal on the used market for the same caliber amp as the Bad Cats and Divided by 13s... but you definitely cant go wrong with those. you've listed some great amps to pick through.

[notpetrucci]

Dr. Z Stangray?

Supposed to run the Non-top boost section of an AC-30 with a smoother "Dumble" voicing.

Or find a Trainwreck Liverpool thing.

-Jon

[Teleman]

Genz Benz Black Pearl 30. It's everything you described.

[evergud]

I'll have to vote for the Framus Ruby Riot - smooth, warm clean and a very versatile, creamy overdrive. Working the middle control brings out lots of different tone.

[localmotion411]

Dr. Z Stangray?

Supposed to run the Non-top boost section of an AC-30 with a smoother "Dumble" voicing.

Or find a Trainwreck Liverpool thing.

-Jon

A Trainwreck Liverpool or an amp inspired by that circuit is definitely not AC30-ish. Albeit an EL84-powered amp like the AC30, the Liverpool is a fire-breathing dragon compared to a Vox of any type. Shit ton of gain.

You may be thinking of the Trainwreck Rocket, which was Ken Fischer's take on the AC30 circuit.

[r9player]

Buy that Sommatone Roaring 40s in the Emp.

[Sniper-V]

Most of the already mention will give you an influence, a take, a voicing, or evolved AC30. I didn't see the 65amps mentioned, but the London has a great Vox-ish voicing in it but I wouldn't get it wanting a real AC30 tone.

If you are looking for just a true AC30 thing:

Vox CCs aren't bad actually and I believe there are mods available to improve its short comings.
JMI, I hear are pretty darn close to the real vintage deals AFAIK, but kinda $$$$.
Used or NOS MIE Vox RI aren't bad either
I like my AC30HW, I wouldn't say a true TopBoost but its more Vox than my 65 and Matchless. It takes pedal like crazy!It's hard to do sometimes becasue they aren't everywhere, but try all those amps out if you can. Pick up the one you think you bond the most with.

[RichSZ]

What is "harmonic complexity"?

[Topas]

You might want to look at JMJ amps (http://www.jmjamps.com/) (don't confuse it with JMI amps). The guy makes an AC-30 chassis which can be put into, for instance, AC-30 CC box. It has an EF86 channel as well and pretty positive reviews. I don't know if the company is still in business, tho.
Btw, I have Bad cat Black cat and I'm not very sure it has the AC-30 tone...

[Sniper-V]

You might want to look at JMJ amps (http://www.jmjamps.com/) (don't confuse it with JMI amps). The guy makes an AC-30 chassis which can be put into, for instance, AC-30 CC box. It has an EF86 channel as well and pretty positive reviews. I don't know if the company is still in business, tho.
Btw, I have Bad cat Black cat and I'm not very sure it has the AC-30 tone...

He hasn't been taking orders for a while.

I've talked with him and he said he could put me on a list but that it wouldn't guarantee me getting an amp.

I think he's tired now and may want to move away from building...

[gtrshow]

I'd recommend adding the Heritage Briton to your list. I've been way into Voxy tones for the past year or so, and the Briton II head caused me to part with a much loved Mayfly BC-15, TopHat King Royale, and Ceriatone 18W TMB.

[Doodad]

You really need to put a Goodsell on the list. I thought I needed a Vox for my Ric, but I tried it and even told my wife that the 17 did that already and a bit more.


The Black Pearl suggestion is interesting. I love that amp. I don't feel it is Voxy (IMHO of course), but dang that is a nice amp. I have no idea who the guy playing it at the local store was, but it was impressive.

[aeolian]

What is the cost difference between a real JMI and some of the mentioned boutique amps? I got a chance once to play a good example of a real JMI amp and I've never heard any deriviative amp sound anything like it. None had the thickness, richness and harmonic complexity of the original.

[gi doc]

I suspect the Bruno Underground 30 is one not to overlook or underestimate.

[mild]

Some great options already given to you. Just throwing in on what I know...

DC-30 will get you exactly where you're describing. A lot of coin, to be sure, but its my favourite amp, without a doubt. Amazing amplifier!

If you need quieter: Goodsell 17 is brilliant, and serves me for just this purpose. Nice and light too - has quite a "Matchless-y" sort of tone (its not quite as magical, but the difference is negligable).

Other stuff that I like the look of, for a "better" vox... would be the JMJ amp, and the /13 amp.

[SG John]

I just placed an order with DST Engineering for a DS-30. I played it at their shop, and all I have to say is WOW! It's a great amp, and you can have it custom made to any specs you want. I got mine in white, with an EF-86 circuit, and reverb. It also cuts to 15 watts.

If you're going to go with an American made clone. Try these guys. I played every amp at their shop. And they were all excellent. I had AC30 on the brain, and the DC30 won over their Marwatt, DS15, and UV models. They were all great amps, and somehow I'll have to add a MArwatt to the collection someday.

Link here: http://dst-engineering.com/

[disaster]

what do you need for volume? do you like the matchless/bad cat hi fi sound? master volumes? Cleans mostly?

If you want just clean stuff, the RSA31 is great. As far as an all-around AC30, you should check out one of the AC30CC's with blues, the Top Hat King Royale, and also that new AC30H2 (heritage) that's coming out next month.

If you're not worried about straying from the basic AC30 sound, the Black Cat and DC30 are great amps- much more steely and hi-fi but lots of fun to play.

Not necessarily cleans, more mid-gain. Volume is not an issue- I'd much prefer something in the 30 watt range to something lower wattage.
I do have an AC/30cc with blues(not mine permanently, just borrowed for evaluation). It's a good amp at a very good price, I just want a slightly different tone. Plus, I would rather not buy Chinese made products. The hifi-nature of the Bad Cat and the Matchless is why I'm so far the most interested in them.

What is "harmonic complexity"?

Good question. More harmonic content, I suppose. Sparkly upper mids, etc.

I'd recommend adding the Heritage Briton to your list. I've been way into Voxy tones for the past year or so, and the Briton II head caused me to part with a much loved Mayfly BC-15, TopHat King Royale, and Ceriatone 18W TMB.

You really need to put a Goodsell on the list. I thought I needed a Vox for my Ric, but I tried it and even told my wife that the 17 did that already and a bit more.

I suspect the Bruno Underground 30 is one not to overlook or underestimate.

Heritage, Goodsell, and Bruno all noted. Thanks guys (and girls?).

[disaster]

I just placed an order with DST Engineering for a DS-30. I played it at their shop, and all I have to say is WOW! It's a great amp, and you can have it custom made to any specs you want. I got mine in white, with an EF-86 circuit, and reverb. It also cuts to 15 watts.

If you're going to go with an American made clone. Try these guys. I played every amp at their shop. And they were all excellent. I had AC30 on the brain, and the DC30 won over their Marwatt, DS15, and UV models. They were all great amps, and somehow I'll have to add a MArwatt to the collection someday.

Link here: http://dst-engineering.com/

thanks. I'll check em out.

[Dale]

Genz Benz Black Pearl 30. It's everything you described.

+1 on the Pearl.

[Killcrop]

Check out the Cage Corsa.

[papa taco]

Add Kingsley Deluxe 30 to the list too.

[ford]

I'm not associated, but there is a Hayseed 2x12 combo in the emporium right now. I do have a Hayseed 30 and it of course does the Vox thing very, very well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :BEER

rock

bford

[petemin]

What is the cost difference between a real JMI and some of the mentioned boutique amps? I got a chance once to play a good example of a real JMI amp and I've never heard any deriviative amp sound anything like it. None had the thickness, richness and harmonic complexity of the original.

couldn't agree more. find a real jmi ac-30 (in good working condition) and your quest will be over.

i have 2 and have owned a fair number of boutique amps and none of them compared.

just an opinion.

pete

__________________
www.petemin.com
www.chimpisaband.com

[papa taco]

I'm not associated, but there is a Hayseed 2x12 combo in the emporium right now. I do have a Hayseed 30 and it of course does the Vox thing very, very well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :BEER

rock

bford

Yeah, I'd jump on that.:BEER

[disaster]

Yeah, I'd jump on that.:BEER

I really need to explore my options (preferably in person) first. Something that clone-y may not be what I'm looking for.

Opinions on the Ceriatone C-30 "interpretation"? Or is that taboo?

[tiller]

I really need to explore my options (preferably in person) first. Something that clone-y may not be what I'm looking for.

Opinions on the Ceriatone C-30 "interpretation"? Or is that taboo?

Hahaha, that is hilarious! The Ceriatone is pretty much an exact clone of the Matchless. You can't get much more "clone-y" than that.

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

Hahaha, that is hilarious! The Ceriatone is pretty much an exact clone of the Matchless. You can't get much more "clone-y" than that.

having compared the two and cracked the ceriatone open to have a look...

the DC30 uses pretty much point to point construction in the whole signal path. an exceedingly time consuming and fussy way of building an amp. i'm convinced that much of the sound of the DC30 comes down to the over the top quality of it's components and the point to point construction.

the ceriatone, by contrast, uses a tag board construction and rather more pedestrian parts count. the ceriatone is a fine sounding amp.

'clone'?
not even close. despite the ceriatone being a fine amp, in no way compares to a DC30, except superficially. the difference may, or may not be, important to any particular individuals on a case by case basis. the DC30 has a harmonic complexity and richness missing in the ceriatone and is also a more touch sensitive amp that some may even find 'stiff'.

as regards the OP's original post...
the DC30, as others have stated, is an AC30 on steroids and, depending on ones predilection, this may be a good thing or a bad thing.
in terms of [the basic AC/30 sound, albeit with more "Lushness" and "Harmonic Complexity."], an original jennings era AC30 is hard to beat. most of the 'modern' derivatives seek to 'correct' the limited bandwidth, flatten the frequency response, ameliorate the 'ghosting' and sag, increase the gain and otherwise 'improve' the jennings. one could argue that w/ each step towards 'improving' the amp, they are actually destroying the character of the amp so beloved by many.

neither is right, nor wrong.

the first step would be to seek out a good example of a jennings era AC30 and have at it. my experience tells me that most folks will either love it or hate it. if U love it, U've narrowed Ur search dramatically. there are very few amps being built today that can present an accurate rendition of the jennings era amps.

if, on the other hand, the jennings era amp is not to Ur liking because of the 'shortcomings' the amp has, there is a wide range of choices (as U have already noted) to me made and it then becomes a question of identifying the salient qualities that are important to U, as an individual.

or...
U could just buy an AC30CC2 and be done w/ it. it does a reasonable caricature of a jennings era amp, perhaps w/o the degree of touch sensitivity that the original has and, thru the myriad of switching options, provide a more modern voicing when that is desired.
it's a very decent amp for the $$$ spent.

the tradeoff w the CC might be of one whereby it can do quite a number of different sounds reasonably well as opposed to another '30' amp that maybe does fewer sounds, but better.

[tele_jas]

I've been on this hunt......

I started with an AC30cc, and it wasn't as *full* or *lush* sounding as I wanted. I then tried a TopHat King Royale, that was a little more *stiffer* feeling than I wanted and reminded me quite a bit of the AC30 I just got rid of, but it could rock pretty good when cranked (like an old Marshall). After that I went with a Dr. Z Prescription ES, while that was closer to what I wanted it was still *sterile* compared to what I heard in my head (but the OverDose was pretty nice and almost worth keeping the amp). I then got a Dr. Z StangRay, and from the first chord I played to 2 months later it still gives me cold chills to hear this amp!! You can not imagine how lush, harmonically complex, smooth, full, chimey, and just plain 'ole GREAT this amp sounds!!

It only has 3 knobs (tone, cut, volume) but those 3 knobs do more than 99% of the other amps out there do! You can make it sound like a 60s AC30, or crank up the tone knob and still sound like an AC30, but rattle the paint off of the walls (I can literally knock pictures off the wall with the bass response available), they have more bass on tap than a Fender Twin, but you can dial out the bass with the tone knob. The most interactive tone controls I've ever turned.

I can't say enough how GREAT the Stangray is in comparison to all the other AC30-ish amps out there. I would still like to try a Valvetech Hayseed though?? I currently have the Stangray and a Dr Z Maz Sr (which is Fender meets Vox) and I've been thinking of trading the Maz Sr for a Hayseed, but not sure I need two AC30-ish amps.

Try a Stangray, you'll be impressed...... Most of the other amps sound about the same to me, but the Stangray really stands out in a crowd. (FYI: the FX loop is about useless on the ray).

The Stangray is based off of the 60s AC30/4 non top boost model.

[skylabfilmpop]

All around stellar amp, move it to the top of your list and stop F'n around.

[ptecat]

Another vote for Cage Corsa. Handwired heads start @ $1375. Check out Pete Cage's website at www.audiocage.com (http://www.audiocage.com) There are some good sound clips.

I am not associated withe Cage amps, just a satisfied customer!

[soldano16]

What is the cost difference between a real JMI and some of the mentioned boutique amps? I got a chance once to play a good example of a real JMI amp and I've never heard any deriviative amp sound anything like it. None had the thickness, richness and harmonic complexity of the original.

A bit over a year ago I found a 63 head that had been gone over by Todd Sharp of Tonequest advisory board. A recovered head shell but all original iron.

$2K

I don't know the boutique clones for AC-30's but I know this amp is wonderful.

I don't know that you can beat a vintage amp well set up.

New amps can do new things but the old stuff can be such cool magic.

Pics
http://www.putfile.com/soldano16/images/78666

[mrweems]

Dr z Maz ?

[disaster]

Hahaha, that is hilarious! The Ceriatone is pretty much an exact clone of the Matchless. You can't get much more "clone-y" than that.

yes, but the Ceriatone is not so much a clone of an AC/30. This is what I meant. The "Matchless sound" is perhaps more appealing than the straight "AC/30 Sound."

[disaster]

All around stellar amp, move it to the top of your list and stop F'n around.

Nice. I like your style.

[disaster]

I've been on this hunt......

I started with an AC30cc, and it wasn't as *full* or *lush* sounding as I wanted. I then tried a TopHat King Royale, that was a little more *stiffer* feeling than I wanted and reminded me quite a bit of the AC30 I just got rid of, but it could rock pretty good when cranked (like an old Marshall). After that I went with a Dr. Z Prescription ES, while that was closer to what I wanted it was still *sterile* compared to what I heard in my head (but the OverDose was pretty nice and almost worth keeping the amp). I then got a Dr. Z StangRay, and from the first chord I played to 2 months later it still gives me cold chills to hear this amp!! You can not imagine how lush, harmonically complex, smooth, full, chimey, and just plain 'ole GREAT this amp sounds!!

It only has 3 knobs (tone, cut, volume) but those 3 knobs do more than 99% of the other amps out there do! You can make it sound like a 60s AC30, or crank up the tone knob and still sound like an AC30, but rattle the paint off of the walls (I can literally knock pictures off the wall with the bass response available), they have more bass on tap than a Fender Twin, but you can dial out the bass with the tone knob. The most interactive tone controls I've ever turned.

I can't say enough how GREAT the Stangray is in comparison to all the other AC30-ish amps out there. I would still like to try a Valvetech Hayseed though?? I currently have the Stangray and a Dr Z Maz Sr (which is Fender meets Vox) and I've been thinking of trading the Maz Sr for a Hayseed, but not sure I need two AC30-ish amps.

Try a Stangray, you'll be impressed...... Most of the other amps sound about the same to me, but the Stangray really stands out in a crowd. (FYI: the FX loop is about useless on the ray).

The Stangray is based off of the 60s AC30/4 non top boost model.

Input much appreciated. sounds like we have similar goals. I might want something on the Top Boost side, but who knows?

[rockinrobby]

hey How About A Real Early 60's Vox Ac30.. I Think For The Money You Pay For A Boutique Amp You Could Get A Real One Or Close... Hey? Just A Thought...

[disaster]

having compared the two and cracked the ceriatone open to have a look...

the DC30 uses pretty much point to point construction in the whole signal path. an exceedingly time consuming and fussy way of building an amp. i'm convinced that much of the sound of the DC30 comes down to the over the top quality of it's components and the point to point construction.

the ceriatone, by contrast, uses a tag board construction and rather more pedestrian parts count. the ceriatone is a fine sounding amp.

'clone'?
not even close. despite the ceriatone being a fine amp, in no way compares to a DC30, except superficially. the difference may, or may not be, important to any particular individuals on a case by case basis. the DC30 has a harmonic complexity and richness missing in the ceriatone and is also a more touch sensitive amp that some may even find 'stiff'.

as regards the OP's original post...
the DC30, as others have stated, is an AC30 on steroids and, depending on ones predilection, this may be a good thing or a bad thing.
in terms of [the basic AC/30 sound, albeit with more "Lushness" and "Harmonic Complexity."], an original jennings era AC30 is hard to beat. most of the 'modern' derivatives seek to 'correct' the limited bandwidth, flatten the frequency response, ameliorate the 'ghosting' and sag, increase the gain and otherwise 'improve' the jennings. one could argue that w/ each step towards 'improving' the amp, they are actually destroying the character of the amp so beloved by many.

neither is right, nor wrong.

the first step would be to seek out a good example of a jennings era AC30 and have at it. my experience tells me that most folks will either love it or hate it. if U love it, U've narrowed Ur search dramatically. there are very few amps being built today that can present an accurate rendition of the jennings era amps.

if, on the other hand, the jennings era amp is not to Ur liking because of the 'shortcomings' the amp has, there is a wide range of choices (as U have already noted) to me made and it then becomes a question of identifying the salient qualities that are important to U, as an individual.

or...
U could just buy an AC30CC2 and be done w/ it. it does a reasonable caricature of a jennings era amp, perhaps w/o the degree of touch sensitivity that the original has and, thru the myriad of switching options, provide a more modern voicing when that is desired.
it's a very decent amp for the $$$ spent.

the tradeoff w the CC might be of one whereby it can do quite a number of different sounds reasonably well as opposed to another '30' amp that maybe does fewer sounds, but better.

You're a gentleman and a scholar, and I much respect your opinion and open-mindedness in general. Plus, great taste in music.
Anyways, I'm not gonna rule out the CC completely. But I've got enough amps that I think I could stand having an amp with just 1 (great) tone option.

[swankmotee]

I'd recommend adding the Heritage Briton to your list. I've been way into Voxy tones for the past year or so, and the Briton II head caused me to part with a much loved Mayfly BC-15, TopHat King Royale, and Ceriatone 18W TMB.

This IS the sleeper that you really should take a listen to because it has everything a good AC30 has and then some. I've been privy to demo'ing most of the other clones mentioned here at every tonefest for the last few years and the Heritage killz em' all! It's also way cheaper than these other models which is the real kicker.:dude

[57special]

This IS the sleeper that you really should take a listen to because it has everything a good AC30 has and then some. I've been privy to demo'ing most of the other clones mentioned here at every tonefest for the last few years and the Heritage killz em' all! It's also way cheaper than these other models which is the real kicker.:dude

Is this the Briton you're referring too, not the Briton II? I owned the latter, and thought it was great, and had some Vox-like sounds, though it certainly isn't a Vox.
Kingsley is a really , really nice amp, with some Vox-like sounds.
AC30CC is a really good amp, and like the Heritage Briton, a bargain.
A properly set up old AC30 is right up there at the top of any tone pyramid. You don't get better, just different.

[µ¿ z3®ø™]

But I've got enough amps that I think I could stand having an amp with just 1 (great) tone option.

alas, the very reason i don't have a CC myself.

[ski_fast]

The newer Top Hats are not as *stiff* as the old ones. I think the Supreme 16 is about as complex, bloomy, and perfect as you could ever hope for. This amp with a 2x12 cab will keep up with a 50 watt Marshall JMP. Bands I know with Vox AC30's used to use a heavy coat to drap over one of the speakers because it was so dang loud. Top Hats are light weight and very well constructed. Also a bargain new or used.

[soldano16]

A properly set up old AC30 is right up there at the top of any tone pyramid. You don't get better, just different.


Had some friends over to jam this weekend and finally got to try mine with the three different overdrives I recently got, being an AC Booster, Timmy and Box of Rock.

The amp loves pedals I use the AC just for a touch of boost and the Timmy and BoR as medium overdrives. The Vox just smokes with the pedals and an LP. :RoCkIn

[theHoss]

Have you looked at a Heritage Briton or Briton II (head/cab)? Both incredible amps!

[jcshirke]

Imo, get a AC30 CC2X used and have Lyle Caldwell mod it to (what he calls) JMI+ specs. It's AC30 tonal heaven. And he can tweak it to suit your specific tonal needs. If you're at all interested, msg me.

[utterhack]

I do have an AC/30cc with blues(not mine permanently, just borrowed for evaluation). It's a good amp at a very good price, I just want a slightly different tone.

Flip the smoothing toggle on the back.

[Telephile]

I prefer the British made early 90's Vox AC30 TB.

[disaster]

Imo, get a AC30 CC2X used and have Lyle Caldwell mod it to (what he calls) JMI+ specs. It's AC30 tonal heaven. And he can tweak it to suit your specific tonal needs. If you're at all interested, msg me.

So who is this dude?

[HeeHaw]

What is "harmonic complexity"?

It's atually a "TGP" word used to describe the tonal characteristics of cork.:o

[jcshirke]

So who is this dude?

Go to: www.psionicaudio.com

Lyle is pretty well known on the HRI (Huge Racks Inc.) board, as well as the Vox forums. He builds some great pedals, builds custom mixers, and mods amps. See details in that web site above. He does a fantastic job with the AC30CC2Xs.

Jeff