Tubes: 12ax7 preamp, looking for a very warm sound

[recto-robbie]

Hello all, Im hoping some of you may be able to help me a bit with some preamp 12ax7 tubes. I own a boogie stiletto deuce which happens to be a somewhat bright amp which works awsome in a mix but when I play it alone I sometimes find it to be a little harsh or bright in the high end.
Im hoping to possibly find some preamp tubes that may help me darken the amp some. Ive bought from Doug and Eurotubes in the past and have a small collection of different tubes that I swap around periodically.
Currently I own and swap around JJ ecc83s, mullard 12ax7 reissue's, Tung-sol 12ax7, sovtek 12ax7Lps, Penta labs 12ax7, and some EH 12ax7's.
I cant say any of them are bad but I also cant say any of them really help reduce much brightness in my amp.
Im hoping you may be able to suggest a very warm dark 12ax7 tube.
Ive read about the GT 12ax7-m but they seem almost impossible to find because it seems everybody is out of stock and the reviews I read about them state that they are very unreliable. I also would like to mention that I really want to stay away from NOS because the prices are just too steep for an amatuer like myself. I cant see myself buying a preamp tube that costs more than a GT which go for about $22.
Any help or suggestions for me would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks much.

[Timbre Wolf]

Well - you've about got the current-production covered, so forget about avoiding NOS options. RFT ECC83 will likely be the ticket for you, as long as you're not playing mostly clean. It is not too expensive (for a NOS option).

- Thom

[rockon1]

Early I61 Mullard short plate in the V1 might do it. I tried virtually every NOS out there and thats the one Ive settled on in two of my brighter amps. Not the clearest but definately tames/smooths the high end on my Rivera and V32. Bob

[hamfist]

I instantly thought - JJ ECC83, which you've already got, and then (strangely, the same as TW and Rockon1) RFT and short plate Mullards.

However, pre-amp tube changes generally produce fairly subtle changes in tone and I suspect you may not get the tonal change you are looking for merely with pre-amp tube changing. Could be that a change of speaker might be more what you need. What speaker(s) are you using at the moment ?

[Rick1114]

I had sort of the same issue with my DRRI and went through a couple of new production tubes as well. The JJECC83's are the most dark but they kill some dynamics - IMO not a great tube for V1 or V2 (in a fender at least). What worked for me best was a GT12AX7-C (Their chinese tube which has attenuated highs, but still articulate) and I put the JJ in the 2nd stage of the preamp (V4 i think n a Fender).

I still had to cut the bright cap and swap a few resitors to get the sound I wanted. You will only get so far with tube swaps....

[Blue Strat]

NOS RFT 12AX7/ECC83 would be my pick. You've basically exhausted the new production possibilities. If the RFTs don't do it for you, something else in your rig isn't working out (amp, speakers, pickups).

[rockon1]

What power tubes are you using? Bob

[recto-robbie]

Hello again, im running a mesa traditional 4x12 loaded with v30's. Im sure some will chime in about changing speakers but that isnt going to happen for years to come.
For power tubes im running a whole bunch,, if you can tell, Im one of those guys who likes swapping tubes around for fun.
Im running, SED =c= el34's, jj e34l's, Mullard reissues el34's, and my favorite of the bunch JJ kt77's.
Now please remember,, I threw this question out there not because I would sell the amp or because I cant get the sound I want, I have the amps tone controls and an EQ on my board. I also cut threw the mix like a hot knife through butter, im just looking for a possible easy fix from a preamp tube while playing alone in the basement. Again I love swapping tubes around, so here I am looking for more to mess with.
I will say that after reading some of your suggestions Im intrigued by those RFT ecc83's. They truelly sound like they may just be the ticket from what ive read.
And bluestrat, from what I can tell you are either the owner or a worker at KCA so we'll probably be speaking together soon.

Again, many thanks to all of you.

[rockon1]

Hello again, im running a mesa traditional 4x12 loaded with v30's. Im sure some will chime in about changing speakers but that isnt going to happen for years to come.
For power tubes im running a whole bunch,, if you can tell, Im one of those guys who likes swapping tubes around for fun.
Im running, SED =c= el34's, jj e34l's, Mullard reissues el34's, and my favorite of the bunch JJ kt77's.
Now please remember,, I threw this question out there not because I would sell the amp or because I cant get the sound I want, I have the amps tone controls and an EQ on my board. I also cut threw the mix like a hot knife through butter, im just looking for a possible easy fix from a preamp tube while playing alone in the basement. Again I love swapping tubes around, so here I am looking for more to mess with.
I will say that after reading some of your suggestions Im intrigued by those RFT ecc83's. They truelly sound like they may just be the ticket from what ive read.
Now if I go this route with the RFT's,, ive noticed many suggested KCA and or tubeworld. I also found them at the tube store,, would you recommend me buying from there or deffinatly going the KCA or tube world route?
Again, many thanks to all of you.

Ive got a "fix" for you. Go get a Seymour Duncan "pick up" booster. Not to boost but to smooth up the high end. I use it with my Rivera Chubster all the time. With the gain turned all the way down and the resonance switch engaged it does exactly what your looking for-seriously. Bob

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Seymour-Duncan-SFX01-Pickup-Booster-Effects-Pedal?sku=150710


http://i17.tinypic.com/6xhehit.jpg

[hamfist]

Mr Recto-Robbie.
I have a potential alternate solution for you - try using a really awful vintage curly guitar cable from your guitar to first effect. Or maybe use a double-length cable of the same quality as you are using at the moment.
Even as a cat lover (which I definately am !!), I will state that there are many ways to skin a cat !! Think laterally.
Your aim is to trim some of the high trebles off your signal, for your basement playing. There are lots of ways to do this, from tweaking your tone controls down on your guitar, all the way through to standing more offset to your speaker cab (and everything inbetween). I would suggest that possibly tube-swapping is not the easiest answer (although, by all means try an RFT 12ax7, they're great !).

BTW, do you like Marmite (vegemite) ?

[rockon1]

Mr Recto-Robbie.
I have a potential alternate solution for you - try using a really awful vintage curly guitar cable from your guitar to first effect. Or maybe use a double-length cable of the same quality as you are using at the moment.
Even as a cat lover (which I definately am !!), I will state that there are many ways to skin a cat !! Think laterally.
Your aim is to trim some of the high trebles off your signal, for your basement playing. There are lots of ways to do this, from tweaking your tone controls down on your guitar, all the way through to standing more offset to your speaker cab (and everything inbetween). I would suggest that possibly tube-swapping is not the easiest answer (although, by all means try an RFT 12ax7, they're great !).

BTW, do you like Marmite (vegemite) ?

+! Another simpler solution- a long cable or two !

[Timbre Wolf]

try using a really awful vintage curly guitar cable from your guitar to first effect.
Worked for Jimi!!

- T