Anything wrong with a standlone digital recorder?

[Guitar Josh]

I've been doing alot of writing recently and wanting to expand upon my not-so-glorious one track demos into full blow recordings. My friend is adamant that I get a good interface at go from there. However, I like the hands on feel of a digital recorder with knobs and buttons and increased inputs. Not to mention that it's portable, and my gear is on the other side of the room from my computer and my band practices 20 miles away.

I have been seriously looking at the Fostex MR16HD 16 track digital multitracker with CD

http://www.fostexusa.com/index.php?file=products/digital/mr16hdcd

I like that it has 16 tracks, does 4 at a time, has four separate inputs, full array of mixing knobs and buttons, digital and usb outs, and the burner is nice for standalone recording possibilities.

Is there anything wrong with going this way? Anyone have any comments on standalone vs. computer?

Any advice / comments on the subject of this recorder or generally are appreciated, and thanks in advance.

[Grun]

Nothing 'wrong' at all. Just depends on your needs. If/when you want to do any editing you may want to investigate a PC based system as these offer the greatest convenience and flexibility for editing and post production. In the meantime, you could use the portable for tracking and then dump your files into computer for editing at a later date if it comes to that. Best of both worlds. Many folks cut right to the chase with a laptop. Track and edit all on one machine.

[rinnytin]

Be sure to consider the issue of interfacing with other people, studios, etc. I had a Roland VS box for a while but eventually got frustrated with that issue and got Pro Tools.

[RustyAxe]

I think a portable standalone is the best of both worlds. I'm using a relatively cheap Boss BR-600. I record many tracks (and virtual tracks), transfer to my notebook (for backup and further editing), convert to WAV (takes a minute or two and easy with Roland/Boss utility), then load the WAVs into Cubase for editing, effects, whatever. Final mixdown in Cubase and then finally, when I need to, I convert the resulting mixed WAV into MP3 for web posting.

Sounds like a lot, but it's mostly point and click (except the editing and mixdown, of course). My point being that to record a live performance or rehearsal I don't need steamer trunk full of crap ... just a smaller-than-a-notebook digital recorder. But when I want, I can go all out and use my computer.

I've been toying with the idea of a larger unit, but this little Boss unit just fits the bill ... and didn't leave me with a big bill ... :rolleyes:

[Guitar Josh]

Hey Rusty (or anyone else), when you transfer to your notebook, is the data in a compiled form or in individual tracks? How are you doing a final mix?

[1kidc]

I use digital performer & protools on my Mac @ home.

My band records live to a Roland hdr (can't remember the model - it belongs to our soundman). For live this rig is much better than bringing the laptop etc to the gig!

Check out the voodoo syndicate clip on youtube. I think the Roland's fidelity (even when mixed down to low mp3 rates) is fantastic. I mixed on it (including effects) and then just dumped a stereo mix into my computer.

Best of both worlds!

[tedzepplin]

I get along fine with my roland VS880. But if I were to start over, I'd see if a laptop computer could do the job. A laptop would be even more portable than the VS880.

[dorfmeister]

Check this out as well.

Zoom HD16CD

http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1919

These are going for a bit under $700.

[RustyAxe]

Hey Rusty (or anyone else), when you transfer to your notebook, is the data in a compiled form or in individual tracks? How are you doing a final mix?
Many ways to skin that cat. The easiest for me is to remove the card from the BR600, insert into my card reader which the laptop sees as an external hard drive, and copy the ROLAND to my internal hard drive. This transfers ALL of the information (like a BACKUP on the BR600 would do). I then run Roland's BRWC.exe utility (BR Wav Converter) which reads the ROLAND folder, allows me to choose the song, and then the tracks (an/or v-tracks) I wish to convert. I save the WAVs to a temporary folder. Then in Cubase, I create a project, and import the WAVs, allowing Cubase to make copies in its own folders. This gets 'em into the editor where I can do my editing thing. Finally, I use Cubase to export the mixdown to WAV file (this is the final mix). And if I want to post to the web, I take one more step, and import that WAV into Audacity to convert to MP3 (any WAV->MP3 conversion utility will do, I just happen to have Audacity loaded on this laptop).

Here's a clip that I made about an hour ago. Not a "production" ... just an audio notepad, really. One take each on four tracks (complete with screw ups), transferred, mixed (no real editing, just some automated volume stuff), and converted to MP3. The whole thing took an hour and a half ... maybe.

Pack Up Your Sorrows (http://home.comcast.net/%7Edcollin.bethany/mp3/PackUpYourSorrows.mp3)


It sounds like a lot, but it's really simple.

[teleking36]

I have a Korg D888 and it's one of the most comprehensive and versatile portastudios I've ever used. It's got an onboard 40GB hard drive, monitor outs, phantom power, onboard effects (which are actually decent), and here's what sold me...you can record all 8 tracks simultaneously. I've been using this for the past few months to record demos for my two younger brothers' bands and for my own demos and clips, and they've been coming out great! I can record a full band tracked live (3-4 mics on the drums, one mic on each guitar cab, and vocals - I usually run bass through the amp and direct into the board) with great results. I could probably get some better preamps, but I end up transferring everything to my PC to do post-production and editing anyway.

FWIW, I've considered getting a Mac laptop and a nice firewire interface, but I don't have the money right now, and the D888 is working too well for me to really stray away from it. Also, the D888 at $700 is far less expensive than getting a $2200 mac and $800 interface, and there are less moving parts. Definitely check these out.

[NB_Terry]

I recently got a Boss BR-600.

For $300, I don't think it can be beat.

[wooldl]

I think a portable standalone is the best of both worlds. I'm using a relatively cheap Boss BR-600. I record many tracks (and virtual tracks), transfer to my notebook (for backup and further editing), convert to WAV (takes a minute or two and easy with Roland/Boss utility), then load the WAVs into Cubase for editing, effects, whatever. Final mixdown in Cubase and then finally, when I need to, I convert the resulting mixed WAV into MP3 for web posting.

Sounds like a lot, but it's mostly point and click (except the editing and mixdown, of course). My point being that to record a live performance or rehearsal I don't need steamer trunk full of crap ... just a smaller-than-a-notebook digital recorder. But when I want, I can go all out and use my computer.

I've been toying with the idea of a larger unit, but this little Boss unit just fits the bill ... and didn't leave me with a big bill ... :rolleyes:

Wow, this is familiar. I use the same process with a BR532 and ACID Pro. I record thru a Soundcraft Folio mixer into my BR's line input. I record dry. Then I convert each track to a wave file and import it into ACID for mixing. It's limited, but I work alone so I'm in no hurry and only record one instrument at a time.

Rusty.....nice tune BTW. Good harmonies.

[Y-roc?]

I have a Zoom 16-track that I love. With its built-in drum machine, multiple effects, and built-in CD burner, all you need is a mic and some instruments. And you can't beat the price! You can hear what I'm doing with it at www.myspace.com/redblackgrey (http://www.myspace.com/redblackgrey)

The only time I wish I had a computer based system is for editing and mixing. Since the machine is basically a digital version of the old analogue machines, it's slow going and clunky if you need to edit or create a decent mix. For example, if I mess with the tempo in one area, it only effects the drum track, and I have to physically re-record all of the other parts (except drums) to fit the new tempo. Or, another example, during mixdowns, I'd love to be able to click and drag my level changes instead of actually having to sit with my fingers on the faders and make changes in real time. Every mixdown is like a performance in itself...mistakes and all.

If I had the cash, I'd get protools just to do editing and mixdowns...but I'd still use my Zoom to do the actual recording part...and then throw the tracks into protools when I'm ready to mix.

Feel free to PM me if you have any additional questions. I'm stoked on the Zoom and would love to tell you more about its capabilities. And...I swear don't work for Zoom :-)

[pfflam]

Are there any not too expensive stand-alone models that will dump tracks to computers and will record in more than 16bits 44.1khz?

[Kiwi]

I've been using standalone recorders for years, as an all-in-one solution. When I got into this years ago, the general sitch was that you had to be a pretty tech-savvy guy to get all the software to work happily together and a highly equipped PC as well. I understand that's much easier now, but I went for a standalone for convenience.

Besides digital editing and portability, the higher-end models offer mastering effects and mix automation (change your mix levels and effects automatically within a song.)

As an example: The Korg D1600 that I use has all of the above, plus 8 inputs at once, 40 gig harddrive, a CD burner, and the capacity to record in 24 bit, 44.1 kHz mode. It can send digital data out, as well.

Most of all - and this is something to consider before buying any standalone - it has a terrific online forum of regular guys who can talk you through all the tricky bits and give you the FAQ that the manufacturer doesn't!

Good luck with it -

K

[StinkMonkey]

Definately check out any complaints with finished CD volume with any CD machine you buy. You may want to skip the built in CD and set up your computer to di it. I use a SIAB. Went expensive 'cuz I got tired of getting what I'd paid for. I have an old Boss 4 track and a GNX3 (8 track) I still stick ideas on. I don't like 'em because of how they rewrite the signal in and out of their machines, but the Boss uses batteries in a pinch and the GNX is a processor too. So I went all the way and got an Akai DPS24mkII. Waited almost two years for them to come out. It was worth it. It's actually pretty big and weighs in at 40 pounds, but, it is a Studio In A Box. Imports and exports .WAV files. I use a computer to run AKSYS, which puts the multi screen on your monitor. I can 'Frankenstine' between my Computer and the Akai freely. The Akai doesn't have every effect, and you can process through any software and send it back to the Akai. IF you can mix and master, the CD's compare to anything you can pull out of your collection and play on your stereo. For me to use a lop top I'd still have cart around a mixer. I like long throw faders and EQ knobs I can manulipate a few at a time if I have to. I looked at the big VS (which isn't being made anymore) but again I didn't like the extra language processing.
I've used it to record live for mixing later, actually used it for a live mixer when the local small house mixer failed, and it's been great. I record multitrack recordings to send out for big studio mixing/mastering, red book recording to send out and full demos for local bands, however they want it.
Download and study the manual of the machine you like, check out the forum (VS planet for Roland fans and DPS world for Akai fans), I'm not sure about Fostex. Browse for complaint forums. Better to do the home work and not end up with recorders ya can't wait to get rid of.

[Greggy]

Are there any not too expensive stand-alone models that will dump tracks to computers and will record in more than 16bits 44.1khz?

I own a Roland VS 2400, a 24 track recorder. It will record up to 96khz at 24 bit, but you lose tracks at that level. I typically record at 44.1 and 24 bit. I avoid the Roland compression scheme by recording in M24 mode. This is linear audio without compression. The cost is the loss of 8 tracks (16 tracks to record to). But this isn't an issue for me, just have to manage bounces creatively to make the most of the available tracks. Most users record in MTP mode which is 24 bit and 24 tracks, but this involves Roland's proprietary compression scheme. I find you don't lose too much on individual tracks, but I can hear a difference in clarity and high end when multiple tracks in MTP mode are stacked. Enough of a difference that I avoid using MTP.

Also, the 2400 and the 2480 have R-Bus, which allows you to hook up to a computer and send up to 8 tracks back and forth. I believe you need a RPC-1 card for this to work.

[pfflam]

That looks good but I need something that's cheap!

[Lance]

Well, like StinkMonkey says, you get what you pay for. If you go cheap, that's how it'll sound. I've heard some people get great results with n'Track studio software. I've heard people get decent results with a Roland VSR1680, of which I saw one on Craigslist earlier this week for only $300.00 used. Which is nuts, because they were around $2000. new a few years ago. I don't think I would get a really expensive one, because the resale value drops on those, tremendously, right out of the box. Like all digital technology, it changes almost daily any more.

[Guitar Josh]

Thanks for all the replies so far. This is one I decided to go with (mostly).

http://www.fostexusa.com/index.php?file=products/digital/mr16hdcd

It's got pretty much everything I could ask for in its price range ($500).

[mrmega]

For what it is worth, the BEST stand alone I ever saw, heard and used is the Yamaha AW-4416

16 tracks

Record 8 at a time out of the box.

8 virtual tracks for each.

Undo features

No audio compression like so many others.

Tons of useful effects you would wants (verbs chorus etc) including dynamic effects like gates, compressors etc

4 band parametric

Really good preamps and it has incredible auto mixing features.

VERY reliable and durable. Hard drives up to 40 gigs and replacements are readily available.

They can be had used off EBay for around $700 routinely.

[Mike7]

I would recommend the Yamaha also, especially if you can get one for $700 used now!!!! I bought mine back in '03 and it works like a charm, the learning curve was a little steep but once you get the hang of it it is a breeze. I also got the added bay so I can record 16 tracks at one time. After recording I save the tracks to disk, and convert to wave form with the track converter you can get for free from the 4416 website (but that is not what the site is called, google around and you will find it). Then I drop the tracks into CuBase and off to mixland. Simple effiecent and the sound is above ordinary especially if you put a little time in and really listen to what you are creating. I usually just rush through, I don't have the patience I used to, but my sons are coming out with some great stuff. You couldn't tell the difference between their work and what comes out of Abbey Road. Of course once it gets down mp3 ....

[franksguitar]

I use a Korg D1600 and a Tascam DP01FX linked optically and a Marantz Mastering CD burner deck. I can USB files out from the Tascam or run a Skuzzy out from the Korg to PC.

[cultureofgreed]

Get a MacBook Pro. Problem solved. :BEER

[Guitar Josh]

Get a MacBook Pro. Problem solved. :BEER

That's a $2k device. Not really the question.