Thoughts on long lessons...

[gennation]

Please remember I primarily teach intermediate and advanced students, and once in a while a beginner as long as they are devoted to practicing an improving. This question is primarily regarding an intermediate student, and in NO WAY is directed to the beginners. Also, I give one week off to the students every 8 weeks due to my day-job's responsibilities.

Normally I do half hour lessons. I also do one hour lessons based on the students practice schedule and ability to "move on" with things.

I have one such student who does an hour a week with me. He owns his own business that pretty much runs itself, drives about 45 miles round trip to see me for lessons each week, doesn't have any kids, is a long time player, and really does nothing but play guitar and jam with his band. He's got it made ;)

He comes to each lesson with everything I gave him for the week completed. Even writing assignments! He soaks the stuff up, even showing me how he's now incorporating the concepts into songs he's playing, etc...IOW, a GREAT student.

About a month ago we were talking about schedules. I mentioned that I had a half hour between him and the next guy that I was trying fill. He said "well, since I driving all the way over here, I'll pay for that extra half hour". Explaining it like he would like to just hang out with a guitarist he can learn from.

Well, knowing the kind of guy he is I said "let's try it, but if it gets to much I'll be honest with you and put the kabash on it". (I like my students to progress nicely). So we agreed to it.

Well I've had the next hour after him open up since then. Now he wants that too for a full two hour lesson!!! Of course in the back of my mind it would be easier than trying to fill the time, but he's in a perfect playing situation as far as time goes, and he's dedicated as a mofo...

I told him that the only way I'd do it is if we structure it as a class. IOW, an hour of mechanics/exercises and Music Theory, and an hour of "lab"/application.

Two hours seems like a LOT for a weekly lesson. But the more I think about the person I'm dealing with, and the fact that music schools teach you hours a day, day after day, on this information. I think it sounds like a pretty good route to go with him.

What do you think? Is there anyone you're giving 2 hour private lesson slots too? Just curious because I've never done it with a one-to-one student.

[Bryan T]

If both of you can handle it, then go for it. I typically do hour lessons for my more accomplished students, but occasionally we do longer sessions if needed.

There is a limit to how much a person can absorb (and it varies by person), but I think the limit is probably more than two hours. I've done 8 hour a day master classes as a student and felt like I retained what was covered.

I like your idea of breaking it up into theory and application. I do that with my students as well. Unfortunately, sometimes time constraints mean that theory is one week and application is the next. Being able to do it all at once is a good thing.

Bryan

[gennation]

Unfortunately, sometimes time constraints mean that theory is one week and application is the next. Being able to do it all at once is a good thing.

Bryan

Flexibility, yes. Good idea. I'll remember that. I think once he get more into theory and actually gets it from the ground up, he's going bite in hard.

I've done long lessons with classes but it's less one-on-one in those cases too. I agree it could be draining...I'll definitely be keeping an eye on that.

Thanks for the reply.

[SvenHock]

I would give it a shot. Hes lucky to have you and vice versa. I wish I could find a good teacher in my area like you.

[GtrWiz]

I'd want at least a five minute break in there, but other than that...

[countandduke]

This is a GREAT discussion and I feel weird chiming in but here goes. I have taught guitar on and off for the better part of 12 year or so and usually, 30 minutes is PLENTY of time for your average "hack" guitar player. BUT, for serious students I can see where an hour would be good but most of the time I think an hour lesson just gives TOO much stuff for the student to absorb not to mention hard on us teachers. If this guy is really progressing that quickly and is THAT interested in lessons, you might even try brining in a portable dvd player and watching some guys like Scott Henderson, Joe Pass, Holdsworth, Metheny, etc... I do this with some of my students as it kind of gives them a glimpse into what else is out there. Stuff they may not have seen or been exposed to.

You can also use some backing tracks like Aebersold stuff and just "jam" together. I remember hearing stories that Joe Diorio and Joe Pass would jam on several tunes for an hour and then turn to the students and say, "That was your lesson...".

Advanced students are interesting because they really keep us on our toes....

Good luck man, to me, honesty and good communication is key. Teaching for an entire 2 hours is pretty rough though, so incorporating some good books may help too. I like to do things like turn off the lights and play or make them only play on 2 strings, anything to push them into areas they are unfamiliar, but then again, that's hard for me too.

The neat thing about teaching, is that sometimes I am a student too...

Let us know how things go man....

Chris

[gennation]

The neat thing about teaching, is that sometimes I am a student too...

Chris

You said a lot but I think all of us agree, that's some true words in tht sentence. Unless you teach a curriculum, you never know where things are going to go (even then sometimes too).

Yeah, we've discussed running through some parts of videos he has, and books, etc... We already jam trade licks over some of the tunes he brings in. The last lesson he brought in some pretty dark music, as well as some Dimebag for me to pick apart. He's primarily a metal and punk rocker but he's really interested in the exotic sounds too and is willing to explore anything and learn new sounds.

One benefit for me is that he's interested in learning theory, but maybe a little afraid of it, and he seems to want to learn more things to "play". So, having this time to look at some theory from the ground up is going to be a huge benefit for him that maybe he hasn't realized yet.

[countandduke]

Very cool man, great teachers are hard to come by and it sounds like you are one of them. Good luck, I remember Marty Friedman (spelling?) put out an exotic scale type video but I never checked it out.

If he's into metal, he might like Shawn Lane since he could "shred" with the best of them but I think Shawn is WAY more than just a mindless shredder so it might be an interesting player to introduce him to.

All the best man...

Chris

[gennation]

he might like Shawn Lane since he could "shred" with the best of them but I think Shawn is WAY more than just a mindless shredder so it might be an interesting player to introduce him to.



Chris

Yeah, that would be ME the student ;)

[Ken Ho]

I personally find 1/2 hr lerssons way too short, both as a teacheer and a student. I only teach a few beginners, mainly as a favour, but also for my own benefit.
I find in 1/2 hr you only get to spend time on what the student can't play, and no time on what they can play.
I make sure I incorporate a piece of theory, an exercise and a piece of music in every lesson and 1/2 is not really enough time for that.
If I have lessons myself, I make sure I book at least an hour.
I have had 2 hour lesosns in the past, and that time goes very quick.
I spend about 45 mins usualyy with my curertn student, and though he is only tenm that time goes too quick. This Xmas break, he is coming to my place, so I can spend a lot more time with him to work on his theory more, and to give him loads of "practice" time with me. I gues that is what I am really gettign at. When he practices with me preseent, I can guide him and correct him and make sure he does not practice mistakes. Sometimes we will spend 1/2 hr just strumming changes, with rests fior his wee finger, of course.
Your guy will thrive on 2 hr lessons, but I learnt from my kung-fu teacher that you never really know somethi8ng until you have taught it (which is why I teach), so maybe what he needs is some students as well.

[Sadhaka]

Yeah, violetlove makes a good point about the student doing some teaching. That would be a good idea, and it sounds like he's getting some good teaching from gennation so he'd probably be able to teach.

I think that the two hour lesson is a great idea, especially for the type of student described. Students like that are pretty rare I reckon.

Go for it!!!

[rhp52]

I'm an advanced player and play in many styles. I would welcome a structured 2 hr. lesson. But, it does require dedication on the students part, AND the teachers part. the last teacher i had was (is )a phenomenol player, a great teacher, except when it came to structure. I got the impression he did no prep for my lessons. Don't get me wrong, i learned a lot but i feel i could have learned even more. He closed his studio and moved so that's why i stopped.

I'm still looking for a new teacher and am frustrated that i can't seem to find anyone.

By the way, he video taped the entire lesson to use as reference. It was very helpful to make sure I was proceeding correctly.

[gennation]

I'm an advanced player and play in many styles. I would welcome a structured 2 hr. lesson. But, it does require dedication on the students part, AND the teachers part. the last teacher i had was (is )a phenomenol player, a great teacher, except when it came to structure. I got the impression he did no prep for my lessons. Don't get me wrong, i learned a lot but i feel i could have learned even more. He closed his studio and moved so that's why i stopped.

I'm still looking for a new teacher and am frustrated that i can't seem to find anyone.

By the way, he video taped the entire lesson to use as reference. It was very helpful to make sure I was proceeding correctly.

Hey, drive up to Grand Rapids once a month and I'll give you long, organized lessons.

Also, I'm working on putting together some day long classroom seminars dealing with specific topics. I'll post when I have a schedule for them.

But take a look at my lesson site: http://lessons.mikedodge.com and if you want to come and deal with some specifics we'll work it out.

[rhp52]

Hey Mike,
thanks for the offer, would do it if i had the time.

[OOG]

coaching can be very valuable
try to get in at least half an hour of actually playing with him
coaching as you play

[KRosser]

Personally, I won't teach shorter than an hour. It's just not worth it for me, $ vs. time and energy on my part.....

I don't take regular students outside of GIT, I just take students who are willing to hook up with me, let me load them down with stuff, and then they come back when they're ready for more. I don't mind going over an hour but the student's the one with the budget so I let that be his/her call. But I definitely won't do anything less than an hour.

[big e]

I run a fulltime teaching studio (40-45 students myself, 20-30 other students taught by parttime instructors), I have been teaching for 25+ yrs. My usual session is 1/2 hr. but it really depends on the student. Some people are like sponges and can take in a great deal others are sometimes overwhelmed in 15 mins.!!! I like 1/2hr. in general because it forces "focus". "We don't have a lot of time so let's make the most of it". That said I like to occasionally offer extended sessions for ear training or to review live performances (DVDs). Today few students really listen to music in depth, concerning the sound field......how all the instruments are positioned, how the producer developed the bands sound. Many if not most guitarist have no understanding about how / why the guitars on recording sound the way the do and how they fit within the band context. I also use a loop pedals to observe students improve, create counter parts, etc. More serious students bring their own looper pedals to their sessions and I record material for them to practice with throughout the week. Love my job!!!

[TommyStrat]

Record your students two hour lesson. The last hour should be playing over changes and creating melodies on the spot. Have him play with extreme dynamics. Have him play clean and overdriven. Have him switch pickups. Have him play in different styles. Two hours is too long for each lesson. I like 50 minutes with my advanced students. Each lesson is planned out ahead with both myself and my student. I only take advanced students that are serious. Great post bud.

Tommy