Anyone ever use Siemens EL34?

[parntz145]

Need to know what you think of them. I am thinking about putting them in my Cameron modded Marshall. How are they for 80's metal?

[Clutch21286]

Never used them but the Trainwreck guys love em!

[big mike]

Freakin awesome. But I don't play metal.

[sickboy79]

Oh yeah! My favorite EL34, hands down! Rich vintage EL34 tone. Nice rich swirly top end, amazing mids, and a great bottom end. I've got them in 2 Marshalls - 79 JMP 50w and a 1959SLP RI - as well as my Top Hat Emplexador 50w. Absolutely worth the money. Be careful over 450v on the plates but, just an amazing tube. I'm not a metal player either - more rock a la AC/DC, The Cult, Social Distrtion - but they would be great for 80s stuff. Go for a set!

[AdmiralB]

Be careful over 450v on the plates

This is an internet myth, started I think by Steve Melkesethian. I've used these pretty much exclusively for the last fifteen years, in LOTS of amps, including several over 500V and one over 550V, and I've NEVER had a failure that wasn't infant mortality.

[TheGuildedAge]

I like them, better than SED, which is a good second choice.

Siemens, in my amps, have less headroom and a less spikey tone. More texture.

[ericb]

This is an internet myth, started I think by Steve Melkesethian. I've used these pretty much exclusively for the last fifteen years, in LOTS of amps, including several over 500V and one over 550V, and I've NEVER had a failure that wasn't infant mortality.

Yea , I was wondering that.. I've had them in 3 different high plate voltage amps and haven't had an issue.
Eric

[Roodboy]

This is an internet myth, started I think by Steve Melkesethian. I've used these pretty much exclusively for the last fifteen years, in LOTS of amps, including several over 500V and one over 550V, and I've NEVER had a failure that wasn't infant mortality.
I had a a redplate situation with one with a plate voltage over 450 once.
They do sound great though.

[AdmiralB]

I had a a redplate situation with one with a plate voltage over 450 once.
They do sound great though.

That has nothing to do with plate voltage. That's a bias issue.

If they couldn't handle high voltages, they'd arc internally. I've never had one do that.

[voodoosound]

I have them in my wreck and my Mad Professor loss of headroom is not how I would describe them. I agree thought they are not spikey sounding at all, very warm indeed.

[rob2001]

I run a pair in a 50 watt JCM 800. They sound great. Had the same pair in the amp for a few years now, no issues.

[Roodboy]

That has nothing to do with plate voltage. That's a bias issue.

If they couldn't handle high voltages, they'd arc internally. I've never had one do that.
I thought the bias setting was related to plate voltage. I was biasing the amp with a bias rite and it was a matched quad. I can't remember the numbers but I was going according to the weber bias chart. http://www.webervst.com/tubes/calcbias.htm

The seller told me that was an issue with those tubes. I ended up getting another quad of them and no problem.

[allynmey]

Siemens are really nice. KF's tube of choice for Express Amps. Bell like clarity. Not fuzzy at all. I don't like them in Komet style amps though. Hard to beat Xf2's there. National branded are very good.

[baron55]

It is not the plate voltage the Siemens are sensitive to, it's the screen voltage. I believe the max screen voltage is 425V

[gbtommasi]

I have used them in all of my Marshalls. Very Mullard-like tone, never heard any harshness out of them, but full, complex and tight bottom end plus a sparkling silky high end. Oh, and singing mids, never sounding 'boxy'.
+1 on Siemens EL34

[kimock]

I have used them in all of my Marshalls. Very Mullard-like tone, never heard any harshness out of them, but full, complex and tight bottom end plus a sparkling silky high end. Oh, and singing mids, never sounding 'boxy'.
+1 on Siemens EL34

That echoes my thoughts. . .

[parntz145]

So. is there a big difference between the Siemens and the sed winged c? I am currently running the SED in my Cameron modded jcm 800 and really love the tone. I also have a Cameron modded plexi that I want to re tube, so I was thinking about using the Siemens. If there is a drastic difference I think I will just buy a quad.

[AdmiralB]

It is not the plate voltage the Siemens are sensitive to, it's the screen voltage. I believe the max screen voltage is 425V

Again, having used them in numerous applications with both screens and plates over 500V...I say they're fine. You may see problems with individual tubes, but that's always the case with statistical outliers.

[Blue Strat]

It is not the plate voltage the Siemens are sensitive to, it's the screen voltage. I believe the max screen voltage is 425V

Yes, and in 99% of all guitar amps screen voltage is virtually the same as the plate voltage.

[Blue Strat]

This is an internet myth, started I think by Steve Melkesethian.

Gotta love myths in which the "myth maker" makes less money rather than more ;)

[Timbre Wolf]

Speaking of myth-making...

Weren't "Siemens"-labeled EL34 actually manufactured by RFT in (at that time) East Germany? I may be wrong, but I'll bet you guys aren't actually discussing tubes that were made in the Siemens Munich facility.

- Thom

[mmorse]

Speaking of myth-making...

Weren't "Siemens"-labeled EL34 actually manufactured by RFT in (at that time) East Germany? I may be wrong, but I'll bet you guys aren't actually discussing tubes that were made in the Siemens Munich facility.

- Thom

That's what I've heard also. I have some Siemens (RFT) 34s that I had in my 2204 once upon a time. Very nice tube but it's hard to beat a Mullard when using 34s in that amp.

[clunk]

I've run them in a JCM 800. Plate voltage at 470v and they work fine. Personally i found they do sound great but not for metal. They are more for rock tones in this particular amp. Mids were fantastic, high end sounded great. Bottom end is tight but not big sounding if your going for that palm muted low E, chuga chuga type sound ie. metallica, megadeth.
I found the JJ e34L and KT77 have a bigger bottom end for those type of tones.
Again i've only tested them in a JCM 800. For this particular amp i found they work great for classic rock tones, better than newer tubes on the market. They may work better for metal in other amps. Just my opinion.

Clunk

[Blue Strat]

So, the big questions are:

1) Do the 6 reports here that they work above 450V mean that the other 1,000,000 will too?

2) Why would a guy selling these purposely limit sales for no reason?

[big mike]

My amp runs 420ish at the plates and I bais to 42ma.

Dunno if it's bad, but it sounds good...if I go through them, I go through them.

[matte]

they were in my first express that kenny built for me, back in 1991. i have tried them in my selmer zodiac and "86 express, as well.

i dig 'em but i prefer mullard xf2 double getters (and the blame for this lies squarely @ the feet of our esteemed gp member, alan philips/carol ann amps:AOK .).

[matte]

I've run them in a JCM 800. Plate voltage at 470v and they work fine. Personally i found they do sound great but not for metal. They are more for rock tones in this particular amp. Mids were fantastic, high end sounded great. Bottom end is tight but not big sounding if your going for that palm muted low E, chuga chuga type sound ie. metallica, megadeth.
I found the JJ e34L and KT77 have a bigger bottom end for those type of tones.
Again i've only tested them in a JCM 800. For this particular amp i found they work great for classic rock tones, better than newer tubes on the market. They may work better for metal in other amps. Just my opinion.

Clunkfor high gain (and all forms of tube driven high powered el 34 based aggression), i'm all about the sylvania big bottle 6ca7s. killer big fat clean tube as well. i have them in my carolann od2.

[clunk]

LOL i have no idea Bluestrat. I'm not a tube expert, but arent EL34's generally rated for 700-800 plate voltage? Can someone confirm that they have had a set go south due to voltage in excess of 450v?
I know a few tube suppliers have stated this "dont exceed 450v" warning though, but i have yet to hear of anyone having these tubes go south as a result.

Clunk

[AdmiralB]

They are indeed RFT East Germany.

EL34 spec is 800V plate, 500V screen.

[baron55]

They are indeed RFT East Germany.

EL34 spec is 800V plate, 500V screen.

True for most

But the Telefunken and Siemens data sheets show only 425 on the screens

[baron55]

Yes, and in 99% of all guitar amps screen voltage is virtually the same as the plate voltage.


very true

[clunk]

Thanks for the clarification Baron55.

Clunk

[Roodboy]

Speaking of myth-making...

Weren't "Siemens"-labeled EL34 actually manufactured by RFT in (at that time) East Germany? I may be wrong, but I'll bet you guys aren't actually discussing tubes that were made in the Siemens Munich facility.

- Thom
I think you're right, IIRC the dimple on the top is a positive ID factor for RFT. The tubes I referred to in my earlier post had the dimple.

[Lonely Raven]

For metal (Peter Dual Channel), I'm loving the JJ KT-77! They have the solid bottom end of a 6L6, but the EL-34 mids that James designed the amp around.

I run them a little hotter then 70% as they are easy and inexpensive to replace should I run them into the ground. There is a point (at least on the Peters) where they just come alive and are very dynamic with great harmonics.

I don't have much experience with Vintage EL-34, but I can say that these KT-77 make me rethink my typical dislike for EL-34 and want to try some vintage tubes.

[Carol-AnnAmps]

This is an internet myth, started I think by Steve Melkesethian. I've used these pretty much exclusively for the last fifteen years, in LOTS of amps, including several over 500V and one over 550V, and I've NEVER had a failure that wasn't infant mortality.

Actually no it's not 100% a myth, just the interpretation by some 'internet tube gurus' who probably knew nothing on the subject until the internet. The potentially problematic ones are the East German RFT made valves, which is the slim bottled EL34 often branded Telefunken.

In the mid 80's back in England in the Company I worked for, we used Mullard EL34's in some laboratory equipment, When the 70's stock finally depleted we moved to using using the 'more tempremantal' E.German RFT made valve. We were issued with a warning by the supplier that in some designs they 'may not be suitable' if anode voltages exceeded 500V.
My experience is that in most cases they are fine as long as you're not using crazy 600+ anode voltages. They are also totally fine up to 750V in designs that use the screen taps a lot lower than the plates. Several Musicman model operate like this.

The RFT valve is much nicer than many of the newer valves, but it is not the same as the older West German made Siemens. All the Trainwrecks I've seen have used either Mullard XF2's or W.German Siemens.

[mc5nrg]

OK I'll bite:

How exactly do you tell the difference between Siemens made EL34 and a Siemens branded RFT sourced tube? Dimple top is RFT?

[Timbre Wolf]

Actually no it's not 100% a myth, just the interpretation by some 'internet tube gurus' who probably knew nothing on the subject until the internet. The potentially problematic ones are the East German RFT made valves, which is the slim bottled EL34 often branded Telefunken.

In the mid 80's back in England in the Company I worked for, we used Mullard EL34's in some laboratory equipment, When the 70's stock finally depleted we moved to using using the 'more tempremantal' E.German RFT made valve. We were issued with a warning by the supplier that in some designs they 'may not be suitable' if anode voltages exceeded 500V.
My experience is that in most cases they are fine as long as you're not using crazy 600+ anode voltages. They are also totally fine up to 750V in designs that use the screen taps a lot lower than the plates. Several Musicman model operate like this.

The RFT valve is much nicer than many of the newer valves, but it is not the same as the older West German made Siemens. All the Trainwrecks I've seen have used either Mullard XF2's or W.German Siemens.

Thank you for shedding light on the Siemens-RFT connection!

- T

[Red Planet]

Also dont discount these tubes or others when you run across them. Occasionally you will find a set of Tubes Branded one thing and they are something else. Especially if they happen to have a little XF2 etched in the bottom above the Base. I have some tubes that I ran across that I thought were one thing and later realised I had a set of Mullards on my Hands. :BEER

[psychodave]

This is an internet myth, started I think by Steve Melkesethian. I've used these pretty much exclusively for the last fifteen years, in LOTS of amps, including several over 500V and one over 550V, and I've NEVER had a failure that wasn't infant mortality.

Agreed....but the tubes he sells are crappy 80's versions that are known to have a LOT of bad ones....and couldnt handle the higher plate voltage.

I have used Siemens in my 67 Plexi with plate voltage around 560+ for over a decade...with the same quad!

[AdmiralB]

Agreed....but the tubes he sells are crappy 80's versions that are known to have a LOT of bad ones....and couldnt handle the higher plate voltage.


Those are the same military stock that everyone else has, and what I've been using. Maybe he's been unlucky, but in probably 250 tubes I've found two bad ones.

[Jube2550]

OK I'll bite:

How exactly do you tell the difference between Siemens made EL34 and a Siemens branded RFT sourced tube? Dimple top is RFT?

I need to take some pics since I have both, Siemens circa 1989 specimens out of a Marshall 9005 stereo amp and the stock unlabeled RFT from the Jubilee.

Just using a quick visual inspection, both have black bases & dimples, halo getters, nothing jumps out differently to my eye.


So there were two factories it would seem if I am understanding correctly, one communist East & one westernized West?

[Lonely Raven]

I'd like to get a set for my Trainwreck inspired amp...I'm worried now about getting the wrong ones.

[Jube2550]

Here is the Siemens obviously left and on right the stock Jubilee presumed unlabeled RFT only as "EL-34" . Not a great pic but similarities can be seen. I'd be hard pressed to say 2 different plants, symmetry is mixed with the spacers neater on the Siemens. Both have dimples... they do sound really good if you like EL34s, were in with stock Marshalls and the original ones still work in the Jubilee 20 years later. http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o96/Photo151head/amprecent029.jpg

[AdmiralB]

Those are both RFTs...every tube I've seen branded "Siemens" has been an RFT.

[Jube2550]

Interesting, any links to a pic of the W.German Siemens label?, the 1970's-1990 history is 4 plants total in Germany?

[Guitar Dave T]

All this talk is making me really miss my 50 watt 1987 head with EL34's.

'Don't miss hauling the 4-12 slant cab, tho.

And yes, I used Siemmans EL34's, don't have any idea if they were RFT or Munich, but they sounded awesome.

[sickboy79]

I think the dimple top in the glass is another connection to which ones are RFTs. I've always heard the RFT made Siemens EL34s had the dimple top - but, I've never personally seen Siemens plant made EL34. Either way, they are great sounding tubes, IMO.

[Roe]

the siemens are great and can be had for a great price from mesa's online store

[Blue Strat]

Those are both RFTs...every tube I've seen branded "Siemens" has been an RFT.


I've seen some Siemens labeled Teslas (NOT JJ!) as well.

[Roe]

70 bucks is not bad for a matched pair of siemens with a 6 month warranty these days :D