Who made these tubes?

[Sharkey]

Are these smooth plate Telefunken's?
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/Tubes/a2_1.jpg

[Timbre Wolf]

I can't tell from that photo. But you may be able to look at the bottom of the glass, between the pins, and say if they have the tell-tale "diamond" shape embossed in the glass there. A closer photo, showing the getter wire, would also help.

- Thom

[antik]

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/updates/mul6922pins.jpg

[rockon1]

Bingo! Smooth plate Telefunken. Gold pins too! Bob

[Timbre Wolf]

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/updates/mul6922pins.jpg
That's what Sharkey would be looking for to confirm Telefunken.

Funny story: several years ago I bought a quad of what were advertised as GE long-plate 12AX7. Upon arrival, I was disappointed to discover that they were definitely not GE, though they did test as new. I was disappointed with the seller, who refused to refund my money (less than $50). When I realized they were all Telefunken smooth plate 12AX7, I got very, very excited again. Then I tried them out and found, to my surprise, that they did not suit my taste at all, sonically - quite disappointing. I would have preferred the GEs! Later on I traded two of them for a NOS matched pair of Mazda 6V6 and a couple of other tubes :)

:BEER to all...

- T

[slider313]

From the look of the spacers, I think they may be Tungstrums. Is there a metal strip with a number on it twords the top by the getter ring?

[Sharkey]

From the look of the spacers, I think they may be Tungstrums. Is there a metal strip with a number on it twords the top by the getter ring?

Hey Mike,
I don't have them in my possesion yet but I will soon.
I'll let ya know.

[slider313]

Hey Mark, when you get them compare them to this picture. I have a couple marked Tungstrum and a few marked Amperex.http://photobucket.com/albums/b376/slider313/Picture039.jpg

[Timbre Wolf]

From the look of the spacers, I think they may be Tungstrums. Is there a metal strip with a number on it twords the top by the getter ring?
"Tungsram" is the name of the tube company you're referring to, Slider. You are correct about the metal tag as a sure sign of a Tungsram tube. The 12AX7 also has quite large holes on the narrow side of the plates (as your photo shows), but the plates otherwise look like the Philips style (Mullard, Amperex, Valvo, Siemens, etc.). I prefer those Tungsram 12AX7 to the short-plate Mullard 12AX7A that likely inspired them - they've greater clarity and frequency extension.

Sharkey - if they don't turn out to be either of the tubes we've discussed, post a couple of additional, closer photos.

- T

[Sharkey]

"Tungsram" is the name of the tube company you're referring to, Slider. You are correct about the metal tag as a sure sign of a Tungsram tube. The 12AX7 also has quite large holes on the narrow side of the plates (as your photo shows), but the plates otherwise look like the Philips style (Mullard, Amperex, Valvo, Siemens, etc.). I prefer those Tungsram 12AX7 to the short-plate Mullard 12AX7A that likely inspired them - they've greater clarity and frequency extension.

Sharkey - if they don't turn out to be either of the tubes we've discussed, post a couple of additional, closer photos.

- T
Hey TW,
It seems Mike an I spell a lot alike. :roll If it wasn't for spell check I'd be in real trouble.:D:D

Thanks for all the help guys. I'll take some pics when I get them in hand a report back here.:AOK

[Jeff West]

Is it just me seeing seams on the tops of those Haltrons?

Happy Christmas, guys, too.

Jeff W.

[Sharkey]

Is it just me seeing seams on the tops of those Haltrons?

Happy Christmas, guys, too.

Jeff W.

Not that great a pic for sure!
What would the seems tell you about them Jeff?

[Timbre Wolf]

Is it just me seeing seams on the tops of those Haltrons?

Happy Christmas, guys, too.

Jeff W.
Merry Christmas to you, Jeff. You're not alone in seeing those seams.

Not that great a pic for sure!
What would the seems tell you about them Jeff?
Philips family of manufacturers (Mullard, Amperex, Siemens, Valvo, and even Matsushita) made tubes with seams on the top. I'm sure there is an etched code on the bottom side of the glass that would reveal identity of the manufacturer and the production date.

- T

[Blue Strat]

Smooth plates would be either Telefunkens or EIs. I can't think of any others that resemble what you've posted.

The defining characteristic is how the getter attaches to the support rod. Tele's are like no other. The getter ring is crimped at the junction, others are not.

[Jeff West]

If they have top seams, you don't need to look beyond that to disconfirm Telefunken-made.

But leaves open numerous possibilities inc EI.

The plates on those look short? I need to fetch some reading glasses.

[rockon1]

If they have top seams, you don't need to look beyond that to disconfirm Telefunken-made.

But leaves open numerous possibilities inc EI.


Not so sure on this one. I have a few Fisher branded Tele smooth plates that have ribs on top. The construction is identical internally to the non seemed ones -including the getter ring which ,as Mike pointed out,is crimped(as if its hollow) to the rod.

None of my rebranded Ei's have this getter style nor do they have the diamond. Bob

[Timbre Wolf]

Smooth plates would be either Telefunkens or EIs.
Agreed! But I can't tell from that photo that those are smooth plates, or even if they're long plates. With more information (better photos), it should be easy to tell.

- T

[rockon1]

The plot thickens! Now I need to look at my collection of Tele ribbed plates. What about the getter? Is it as Mike and I described? Round ,alomost tubular looking and crimped(squished) where it attaches to the post? Aint letting go of the diamond just yet! lol! I do have seamed (what I still believe are) Teles. Bob

[Timbre Wolf]

Heres an enlarged version of the OP first pic.

Not a good pic but it looks like they have seamed tops, and they are also ribbed plates not smooth plates, plus they have (what looks like a round) hole in the sides of the anodes. My guess would be along with Timbre Wolf who suggested Philips family.
Yeah - that helps a bunch. Renders what I just posted obsolete. Definitely not Telefunken. Gotta read those Philips codes when they arrive.

- T

[Timbre Wolf]

Is it as Mike and I described? Round ,alomost tubular looking and crimped(squished) where it attaches to the post?
Telefunken getter wire is in a smaller-diameter circle than other circular getter wires. To me, it looks more plump than other manufacturers', as the circular wire is circular in cross-section as well. And, yes, it is flattened out where it attaches to the vertical support wire.

- T

[rockon1]

Telefunken getter wire is in a smaller-diameter circle than other circular getter wires. To me, it looks more plump than other manufacturers', as the circular wire is circular in cross-section as well. And, yes, it is flattened out where it attaches to the vertical support wire.

- T

Yes the over all diameter is smaller but the wire itself almost looks like a tube-fatter and appears actually squished like a small tube at the attaching rods. I have seamed,diamond marked smooth plates with this Tele characteristic getter. It "seams" tele may have made seamed tubes.... Now this is a ribbed plate tube and I havent checked my ribbed plate stash. Bob

[Jeff West]

That's interesting about the ribbed smooth Telefunkens, Bob. As usual, it's generally risky to say "always" or "never". Do they cite W. Germany? If Fisher, they probably only have mysterious two capital letter date codes at best, or . . . ?

Another incongruity I've wondered about regarding smooth plate Telefunkens with visible Telefunken date codes, they are almost always more recent than ribbed plates, starting in about 1961, with the Berlin ribbed plates ending about then. But once in a great while a genuine smooth plate will turn up with with two letter codes from years before, mid '50s. There also seem to be about 4 or 5 side hole variants in the plates on the smooth ones.

The halo "getters" on most tubes not just Telefunkens consistently weren't solid, they had hollows or grooves that contained the barium that is actually the getter, the halo itself is just a means of positioning it for vaporization in the right places, sometimes like on Bendix tubes the halos were also intended to retain residual getter in the halo as well even after flashing, to keep those tubes gas free 50 years later for guitar player use I imagine. On a lot of the earlier "D" and "horeshoe" varieties that wasn't true, it was only the "cross bar" that had the getter load. Perhaps that's why RCA and others started calling the halo assemblies "getters" and we now talk on the internet about halo and square getters, even though the halos and squares themselves are, by design, inert.

Sorry for the run-on thoughts . . .

Jeff

[rockon1]

They do cite west germany as origin. They are very dirty and the paint is fairly worn.I dont dare clean them. That said I put the least faith in whats actually written on tubes.

I refer to the geter wire assembly as the getter to avoid confusion. Bob

[Sharkey]

Happy New Years everyone.:AOK
Will any of these pics help with the mystery?

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/Tubes/DSC01113.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/Tubes/DSC01111.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/Tubes/DSC01110.jpg

Thanks for all your help.

[Sharkey]

:jo
These have a code also that I couldn't quiet capture in the photograph.
I didn't notice it at first but it's legible. It looks like this:
69
E30

[Timbre Wolf]

:jo
These have a code also that I couldn't quiet capture in the photograph.
I didn't notice it at first but it's legible. It looks like this:
69
E30
I65?
B30?

Perhaps? If so, that'd be Mullard's Blackburn plant.

Or maybe the first character on the second line is an "=" with a vertical slash through it - that would be Siemens' Munich plant.

[rockon1]

Well thats a lot clearer! Like TW said they appear to be Philips family short plates(Mullard,Amperex,Siemens etc.) You said they have diamonds on the bottom? Interesting. Ive got about 50 Philips short plates and never found that marking on the bottom.......NEVER MIND! I realize now after reading the whole thread again you never said they did or posted the pic of the bottom of a Tele! Well did uncover some useful information about Tele smooth plates though.

Try reading the "etch " codes more closely. What you posted isnt any of the Philips family of codes. Heres a link to info on those. Bob

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo/Phlipscode.htm


...

[rockon1]

Crap, that took me almost 13 minutes to compose and type(with one finger!) ...Bob

[Timbre Wolf]

Crap, that took me almost 13 minutes to compose and type(with one finger!) ...Bob
Dare I ask - what's up with the other nine fingers? Hope its not a medical issue, but if it isn't, I don't think I want to know.

- T




p.s. Happy New Year, Bob! :)

[rockon1]

Dare I ask - what's up with the other nine fingers? Hope its not a medical issue, but if it isn't, I don't think I want to know.

- T




p.s. Happy New Year, Bob! :)


lol! Well I never learned how to type of coarse! Actually I use the middle finger /right hand exclusively. Recently Ive noticed some joint pain in it. I guess Ive got "typing finger!"
Happy New Year, Thom!
:BEER

P.S. -I think Ive broken the habit-havent purchased a tube in over a month!

[Timbre Wolf]

lol! Well I never learned how to type of coarse! Actually I use the middle finger /right hand exclusively. Recently Ive noticed some joint pain in it. I guess Ive got "typing finger!"
Happy New Year, Thom!
:BEER

P.S. -I think Ive broken the habit-havent purchased a tube in over a month!

More playing/less typing - that'll cure you!

:BEER

[rockon1]

More playing/less typing - that'll cure you!

:BEER
That and a new keyboard. I have to hit the W really hard for it to work:messedup :) Bob

[Sharkey]

I looked at the codes again!!!
Best I can tell they read:

1st Tube-
69
E29

2nd Tube-
69
E30

[rockon1]

I looked at the codes again!!!
Best I can tell they read:

1st Tube- 69
E29

2nd Tube- 69
E30


Hmmm.... Did you gander at the link I posted? Here it is again.It will give you a good idea what hopefully your looking for . Bob

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo/Phlipscode.htm


,,

[Sharkey]

Hmmm.... Did you gander at the link I posted? Here it is again.It will give you a good idea what hopefully your looking for . Bob

http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo/Phlipscode.htm


,,

Hi Bob,
Yes, and thanks for posting that. I'm not seeing anything that matches up though. My eyes are not what they esed to be :rolleyes: so I'll take some more pics tomarrow.
I had my wife look at them and she thought the letter was an E instead of a B also.
Just to clarify, These don't have diamonds on the bottom.
I'll study that link some more and see if I missed something>
Thanks

[rockon1]

Hi Bob,
Yes, and thanks for posting that. I'm not seeing anything that matches up though. My eyes are not what they esed to be :rolleyes: so I'll take some more pics tomarrow.
I had my wife look at them and she thought the letter was an E instead of a B also.
Just to clarify, These don't have diamonds on the bottom.
I'll study that link some more and see if I missed something>
Thanks


Yeah I realized you never said they had diamonds after rereading the thread. I have a nice magnifying glass I use AND my reading glasses for this kind of stuff! lol! Etch codes on philips tubes can be very faint and hard to see. Bob

[Sharkey]

Yeah I realized you never said they had diamonds after rereading the thread. I have a nice magnifying glass I use AND my reading glasses for this kind of stuff! lol! Etch codes on philips tubes can be very faint and hard to see. Bob

Hey Bob,
This is from the link you provided:

"Tubes before 1960 have a second line with only 3 digits. Their production month can only be derived from a special table"

Could this be the case with these tubes because im fairly sure about the codes and it's only thee digits?
Mark

[Sharkey]

Yeah I realized you never said they had diamonds after rereading the thread. I have a nice magnifying glass I use AND my reading glasses for this kind of stuff! lol! Etch codes on philips tubes can be very faint and hard to see. Bob

Bob,
Thanks for the magnifying glass idea!
I found mine and it's perfect for this!!!:dude

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/Tubes/DSC01130.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f246/Sharkey6us/Tubes/DSC01133.jpg

Codes I posted were correct. Does this mean they are pre- 1960 tubes with a 3 digit code on the second line?
They sound exellent. :AOK

1st Tube-
69
E29

2nd Tube-
69
E30

[Timbre Wolf]

Does this mean they are pre- 1960 tubes with a 3 digit code on the second line?
They're not '50s Philips 12AX7s. The code is a bit baffling. I wonder if the first letter of each line was not printed strongly enough: there would have been an "I" preceding the "6" on the first line, and the manufacturer's i.d. code ("B" for Mullard) preceding the "E" on the second line. What subverts this theory is that the "E" really should be a number. Also, I'm not aware of an "I69" version of Philips 12AX7 - perhaps the very latest Holland production? :confused:

What most matters, I suppose, is that you really like how it performs :AOK

- T

[Bonenut]

Could be India made Bels or Australian Philips? I'll have to check my stash and compare.

[Jeff West]

Hi- Sharkey, Bonenut is right, your better photos and details strongly indicate those are Bharat Electronics, Ltd. (BEL), India. Pretty nice tubes. Majority of those seem to have the "circular plate holes through to inside", like '70s Matsushitas and unlike W. Euro Philips and these, but not all. You see these both with "V" codes as on most Philips factory lists but also "E" like these.

[Timbre Wolf]

Hi- Sharkey, Bonenut is right, your better photos and details strongly indicate those are Bharat Electronics, Ltd. (BEL), India. Pretty nice tubes. Majority of those seem to have the "circular plate holes through to inside", like '70s Matsushitas and unlike W. Euro Philips and these, but not all. You see these both with "V" codes as on most Philips factory lists but also "E" like these.
Okay, Jeff - when are you writing the book on this topic? You're clearly the most qualified. I'll volunteer to be on the tone test panel :D

- Thom

[Jeff West]

I don't know about the book, but your tone testing duties should go into effect immediately, and be deployed indefinitely.

Bob, I happened to see these, on the Triode site for sale. Actually, I looked at them closely 'cause of yours. Seams for sure.

http://http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s211/triodeel/IMG_0457.jpg (http://http//i153.photobucket.com/albums/s211/triodeel/IMG_0457.jpg)

[Sharkey]

Hi- Sharkey, Bonenut is right, your better photos and details strongly indicate those are Bharat Electronics, Ltd. (BEL), India. Pretty nice tubes. Majority of those seem to have the "circular plate holes through to inside", like '70s Matsushitas and unlike W. Euro Philips and these, but not all. You see these both with "V" codes as on most Philips factory lists but also "E" like these.

Hey Jeff,
Thanks for the expert info.:AOK Seems these are very similar to the Philips tubes (construction wise), how do they compare (tone wise) IYO?

[Jeff West]

Hi Sharkey- To be honest, I haven't played any tubes from Bangalore for a few years, although I have a few of those 12AX7s in a box somewhere. But I'd say they compare fully favorably to W. Euro Philips or, say, Matsushitas, I kind of remember them as roughly like a later Dutch Amperex, maybe not quite as emphasized on the upper mid/top end, pretty clean in a good way but still good in a Marshall, etc. And they do have their fans who seek them (maybe one or two will kick in here). Have you tried those Haltrons, what do you think?

Oh yeah, construction wise you're exactly right, BEL was sponsored by the Indian government and achieved technical agreements with Philips and reportedly became set up with extensive Philips-designed tooling, etc., although they were never owned by Philips unlike Mullard, Valvo, Amperex, later Sylvania ECG, etc. But BEL 12AX7s, GZ34s, EL84s, etc. closely resembled Philips on multiple levels, by design and "genetics". BTW, the 12AX7s with "V" factory codes for Bangalore usually do have Philips-style "I6" type/revision codes, IIRC the early '70s ones are "I65" and I think I've seen earlier with "I63", there probably were others.

Bharat Electronics used to have a comprehensive website on-line including significant history, not sure if it's still up but it was informative.

Jeff