New Eminence speaker content [Archive]

Roccaforte Amps

04-05-2004, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by DerekMinnich
This really pisses me off Doug....I was just starting to get speakers off the brain and put that whole idea on the back burner....then Roccaforte comes along and has to tell us that they're th
e bomb! Ack!:D

Like I said, everytime I think Im settled in,
something else pops up.
Thats the problem with us guitar players.
Imagine if we only had one guitar, one speaker,
and one amp to choose from. That would
solve all our problems, right?
I'd certainly have more money in the bank!
Speaking of "bank", these new speakers are.

fullerplast

04-05-2004, 10:34 AM

I just did an A/B this weekend with a Blue in one 1x12 cab and the Red Fang in another 1x12 cab, side by side. My first impression with the RF was that it sounded remarkably similar to the Blue. If I hadn't been able to immediately switch over the the other cabinet, I would have said they are quite similar (and I use Blues most of the time). Goes to show how inaccurate "tone memory " can be. Being able to switch over immediately with all else being the same however, it was quite easy to hear the differences. To me, the RF sounded a little brighter, with a little more ragged high end breakup and less low mids than the Blue. It did sound a little tighter also. The Blue still had a much creamier high end and a little looser low end. I wanted to take a little more bass out for the blue than the RF. I was actually surprised that the RF had more high end presence since usually the higher power handling speakers get progressively more muffled.

I don't think the RF is a dead ringer for the Blue , but is certainly is a very good sounding speaker and would probably get even closer to the Blue with more hours on it. I still prefer the Blue overall, but would have no problem using the RF's. I'm really curious to try one of each in a 2x12 cab, both in parallel and series configurations.

Jon Silberman

04-05-2004, 10:35 AM

Is any of the new Eminences intended as a CL80 copy and, if so, which?

DerekMinnich

04-05-2004, 10:43 AM

Fullerplast, just for reference could you tell us what 1x12's you were using. If they were different models then that could have largely affected the tone.

ROKY

04-05-2004, 11:29 AM

Although no one is disputing this .. the RFs, while not dead
ringers for the CBs, like any other speaker, will improve as they
continue to break in .

The new CBs don't sound exactly like an original CB, either; by
most accounts .

The RFs, from what I can gather, have larger magnets, so, of
course that will make them a little different, right there

Anyway, I can't wait to get mine, and I'm already thinking about
ordering 4 more to load in a 4x12 .:hiP

hipfan

04-05-2004, 01:15 PM

Man, it's nice having a bunch of high quality, reasonable choices in speakers nowadays. For instance, I just installed one Weber AlNiCo Blue Dog 30 watter and one ceramic Blue Dog 50 watter with 50 oz. magnet in my Demeter 2x12 about a week ago. Incredibly nice sounding speakers. Tons of swirl and harmonic content that weren't there with other speakers, IMO. Cleans are beautiful with these speakers. And they still need to be broken in!

I'd like to give some of these new Eminence models a try too.

Macaroni

04-05-2004, 01:49 PM

fullerplast

04-05-2004, 04:05 PM

I just got my Red Fang this morning and A/B'd it with a new Celestion Alnico Blue in my Traynor YCV20WR (2-EL84's). My immediate impression is that the Red Fang is very, very close to the Alnico Blue. They are similar in every respect across the tonal sprectrum, and I only detected subtle differences in the high end.

Just out of curiousity, when you say A/B'd in your Traynor, do you mean play for a while with one speaker, then remove the first speaker, install the second speaker, and then play thru that one? If so, it's much harder to hear the differences with that much time between samples. My first impression was the same as yours, but switching speakers within seconds made it very easy to hear significant differences. Memory of tonal nuances is not extremely accurate! I think if you were to quickly switch between them, playing the identical chord, riff, or double stop, the difference becomes much more obvious.

In my case, I used a 1x12 Jenkins open back and a DR sized open back cab. Switching speakers between cabs did not change the breakup characteristics or frequency response significantly. Ideally, two identical cabs would be best, but these were close enough. I certainly would expect different results comparing an open back and a closed back, or a detuned cab.

I played the Red Fang a couple of hours before comparing and this particular Blue had about 10 hours. Based upon my experience with new Blues, it can take 50-100 hours before they really settle in. Whether or not the Red Fangs take that long remains to be seen. I'll compare them again in a few months and see what has changed.

Macaroni

04-05-2004, 07:36 PM

Just out of curiousity, when you say A/B'd in your Traynor, do you mean play for a while with one speaker, then remove the first speaker, install the second speaker, and then play thru that one? If so, it's much harder to hear the differences with that much time between samples. My first impression was the same as yours, but switching speakers within seconds made it very easy to hear significant differences. Memory of tonal nuances is not extremely accurate! I think if you were to quickly switch between them, playing the identical chord, riff, or double stop, the difference becomes much more obvious.

That's what I did, and I realize there are deficiencies in that approach, but there was no better alternative in my situation. My test was at least with the same amp and cabinet, so the only variables were the speakers, and changing the speakers only took a few minutes with a handy power tool.

I first played the Blue, being very specific about the chords and other riffs I played. I also played the chords using the various pickup settings of my Strat with Kinman AVn Blues. Then I quickly changed speakers. I then repeated the same playing with the Red Fang. I also switched to a Les Paul. Then I went back to the Blue and repeated the playing with both guitars. There were differences of course, but they weren't dramatic, blatant differences. They were subtle variations.

I have some experience as an engineer and producer and my home/project studio is well equiped with good quality gear, including Dynaudio BM6A monitors, so I'm used to critical listening and have trained myself as such. I noticed significant differences between the Celestion Blue, vs the Weber Ceramic Blue Dog, vs a Celestion Greenback. The differences between the Red Fang and Alnico Blue were not nearly as much as with those other speakers. So while they may not be identical, I would say at this point that they sound very close to one another. But, as you say, after a healthy break in period, the differences may be more pronounced one way or another.

All that being considered, I really like the Celestion Blue and the Red Fang hangs right in there so far. Now the next tests will be with different cabinets with my Fuchs ODS, which I wouldn't ordinarily be able to use with a 15W Celestion Blue.

Ron...

mtndog

04-05-2004, 10:49 PM

Hey Macaroni - sounds like you have a good resource in your home studio - what do you think of the idea of recording the two different speakers in an identical way? I know this isn't a test of how they perform live, but it might reveal tonal characteristics, and you could easily A/B the recordings.

Roccaforte Amps

04-06-2004, 12:40 PM

Ummmmm...........good!
Im digging these speakers boyz!
Watch for my post in this thread over the weekend,
I'll give the lowdown on all the samples.

Macaroni

04-06-2004, 12:56 PM

Hey Gary...

I'm very busy with work, taxes, mixing right now, so unfortunately, I don't have any time for recording samples. But maybe in a while.

ROKY

04-06-2004, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Ummmmm...........good!
Im digging these speakers boyz!
Watch for my post in this thread over the weekend,
I'll give the lowdown on all the samples.

Can't wait to hear your impressions, Doug !

I have 2 *Red Fangs* coming tomorrow from Parts express to
put into my Tophat King Royale , and am thinking already about
the *Private Jacks* for my empty 1960TV cab 4x12 that I bought,
recently .

Roccaforte Amps

04-07-2004, 09:29 AM

Originally posted by ROKY
Can't wait to hear your impressions, Doug !

I have 2 *Red Fangs* coming tomorrow from Parts express to
put into my Tophat King Royale , and am thinking already about
the *Private Jacks* for my empty 1960TV cab 4x12 that I bought,
recently .

The Alnico doesnt interest me, no application for it,
but there are 4 others that certainly fill the void for me.

ROKY

04-07-2004, 05:54 PM

Got my Red Fangs a coupple of hours ago, and popped 'em
in my Tophat King Royale .

They sound stellar !! What a relief that it's not hype .

I will be ordering more of these . Vibroworld said they would
make a repro Marshall straight TV cab in an openback config.
I'm gonna load it up with 4 of these beauties .

I can only imagine how they'll sound after, say, a year of hard
playing .

I will be checking out the Private Jacks, and the other models,
and anxiously await Doug's impressions (hint,,hint ..)

I give the Red Fangs -- :AOK :AOK

riffy

04-07-2004, 06:48 PM

Told yall two weeks ago that they sounded great. But would anyone believe me... Noooooooooooo.... lol

D

Roccaforte Amps

04-07-2004, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by ROKY
Got my Red Fangs a coupple of hours ago, and popped 'em
in my Tophat King Royale .

They sound stellar !! What a relief that it's not hype .

I will be ordering more of these . Vibroworld said they would
make a repro Marshall straight TV cab in an openback config.
I'm gonna load it up with 4 of these beauties .

I can only imagine how they'll sound after, say, a year of hard
playing .

I will be checking out the Private Jacks, and the other models,
and anxiously await Doug's impressions (hint,,hint ..)

I give the Red Fangs -- :AOK :AOK

So far, I'll tell you this;
The "Tonker" is the bomb!
Wanna talk about efficiency, these handled everything
I threw at them today, and they did all the right stuff.
At low volume nothing was missing.
I even pumped 200watts of KT88 loaded Hiwatt through them, they loved it.
They=2 speakers open back.
I'll report back on the others soon.
Doug

ROKY

04-07-2004, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
So far, I'll tell you this;
The "Tonker" is the bomb!
Wanna talk about efficiency, these handled everything
I threw at them today, and they did all the right stuff.
At low volume nothing was missing.
I even pumped 200watts of KT88 loaded Hiwatt through them, they loved it.
They=2 speakers open back.
I'll report back on the others soon.
Doug

Very cool !

Actually I have a '67 Plexi Marshall Major that those would be perfect for .. in an openback cab, which was my intent, anyway .

I'm staying tuned, right here ; hoping you've tried the Private
Jacks and the Stonehenges, also .

ROKY

04-07-2004, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Drizzt
Told yall two weeks ago that they sounded great. But would anyone believe me... Noooooooooooo.... lol

D

Hey, I only had just the slightest doubts about them; enough
to delay ordering for a few days until I concluded I had not
much to lose and everything to gain .

We live in a great era for choices in guitar toys !:BEER

Roccaforte Amps

04-09-2004, 04:52 PM

Heres what I have for you so far:

The "Tonker", huge bottom end,
very balanced upper mids,
smooth overdrive.
Its hard to believe a speaker
that can handle 300watts is so right.
I ran master vol Roccas, a 200watt Hiwatt,
and a BlackFace Pro reverb with equal results.
This speaker could be a factory speaker
for these models, and be a perfect match.

Next we have the "Govenor".
This speaker is very Brittish sounding,
I'd say somewhere between a Vintage30, and a GreenBack 25.
However, the tonal response is much smoother,
and like the Tonker, very balanced.
Im having a hard time deciding which I like better.
The Govenor breaks up a bit earlier,
and compresses more, but very similar overall.

In a 2 12" open back Rocca cab, the Tonker
certainly holds together better.
Also, with a 30watt Rocca, these speakers still
responded like they were made for the amp.
Im very impressed.
I have a few more models to sample,
but for right now the Tonker, and Govenor
will be featured in Rocca cabs.

More reports to follow.
Doug

hdiddy

04-09-2004, 07:21 PM

Did you try mixing the speakers

JamesPeters

04-09-2004, 08:04 PM

Even if he did, I have something to say about mixing speakers.

Mixing speakers = mixed results. The results are usually fairly cabinet-dependant. I used to mix speakers a lot, and now have basically gone "straight". :) Too many times I've thought certain speakers might complement each other in a cab, just to find out what worked for another cab didn't work in this one. One speaker tended to over-power another or there were certain issues with "hollow sounds", and so on.

I'd tend to only rely on people's experience with speakers on their own in a cab. Or when it comes to mixing speakers, only take their advice to mean I'd have to do something "identical" (use the same speakers in exactly the same cabinet type/size/dimensions) to get the same results.

Jon Silberman

04-10-2004, 06:59 AM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
I have a few more models to sample ...

More reports to follow.
Doug

I don't want this thread to slip down too far - I'm one of the teeming masses eagerly awaiting "more reports." :)

bluetweed

04-10-2004, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Ummmmm...........good!
Im digging these speakers boyz!
Watch for my post in this thread over the weekend,
I'll give the lowdown on all the samples.

I received the speaker 3 days ago and right out of the box liked it/tried it in a Siegmund Midnight Special and a Clark Beaufort(tweed deluxe) In both amps it sounded close to a tight new Blue/
what I did hear was a more complex midrange than the blue/ when this speaker breaks in, it is going to be a monster/ so it doesn't madder if its a blue copy, what we really have is a great new alnico speaker with blue properties and will stand on its own as being a tone monster/ at this price both weber and celestion will be in a big sweat!!!!!
In the tweed this speaker was simply great and made you just want to play! red fang

MightyGuru

04-10-2004, 09:10 AM

ROKY

04-10-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by bluetweed
I received the speaker 3 days ago and right out of the box liked it/tried it in a Siegmund Midnight Special and a Clark Beaufort(tweed deluxe) In both amps it sounded close to a tight new Blue/
what I did hear was a more complex midrange than the blue/ when this speaker breaks in, it is going to be a monster/ so it doesn't madder if its a blue copy, what we really have is a great new alnico speaker with blue properties and will stand on its own as being a tone monster/ at this price both weber and celestion will be in a big sweat!!!!!
In the tweed this speaker was simply great and made you just want to play! red fang

I have to agree 100% .

Celestion, in particular may be in for a serious hit once word
gets out on the Red Coat series . I mentioned the Red Fangs
on another BBS and, my thoughts mirror BlueTweed's; it doesn't
matter if they are ringers for a Vox blue .. they sound superb.

And over time, yes they will improve/settle .. I can only imagine
how much better .

Thanks Doug for the updates; I'm definitely getting a pair of the
Tonkers for my 200w Marshall Major sound like they're one of the
speakers that can handle an amp like that, still with good tone.

I think I'm gonna give some of the other models a whirl .

Scott_F

04-10-2004, 04:50 PM

I've been looking for something to drop into my homebrew 5e3. I've been running a Jensen P12Q in there, but am not really very happy with it. Gonna give dave a call at avatar and see how much he's got the red fang for.

How much you guys been paying for them and where are you finding them?

ROKY

04-10-2004, 05:10 PM

Dave is gonna be selling them at $116/ea+$8 ship/per ..
I paid 129 at Partsexpress, but I was impatient .

I was gonna go with Jensen-[Weber] alNiCos in my Tophat head
which is a cathode-bias 35w using 4 6V6s,and GZ-34 .
Thru an old alNiCo 15" I have that thing sounds like 5E3 deluxe
that was exposed to radiation and grew to 3x its size.

In a word ... > > > Phenomenally rich > > > .
Yeah, Ok, that's two words .

I think, instead I'll get 2 more red fangs for that head also and
put them in an Avatar cab .

fullerplast

04-12-2004, 09:48 AM

In both amps it sounded close to a tight new Blue/what I did hear was a more complex midrange than the blue/ when this speaker breaks in, it is going to be a monster/ so it doesn't madder if its a blue copy,

What did you base your comparison on? Memory, or side by side testing?

I've been breaking in a Red Fang (~15 hrs) and it's really not sounding any closer to a Blue in a direct A/B. It sounds pretty good, but I'm certainly not going to replace any Blues with one. It seems to lack the smoothness in the highs that the Blues have. It has a harsher tone IMHO.

Still waiting for more reports from Doug of the rest of the line. I think they will definately give Celestion and Weber something to worry about, especially with Celestion's move to China and no reduction in prices. It's good to have another made in USA option.

JamesPeters

04-12-2004, 10:07 AM

Hmm...so much for it being a "direct replacement" for the Blue. :rolleyes: Not that I'm out to jinx a good speaker, but I'm not listening to what the people at Eminence say when they compare their speakers to Celestions anymore. I'm only going to try them for myself when/if I get the chance.

ROKY

04-12-2004, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
Hmm...so much for it being a "direct replacement" for the Blue. :rolleyes: Not that I'm out to jinx a good speaker, but I'm not listening to what the people at Eminence say when they compare their speakers to Celestions anymore. I'm only going to try them for myself when/if I get the chance.

I never expected it to be a direct replacement; but did take
the initial review as an obvious sign that these new speakers
were simply great sounding alNiCos that were going to be a bit
more affordable.

Webers don't sound exactly like a Blue, either, by most accounts.

The original Blues sound different to the RIs also, which is why
most players who have experience with the originals ignore the
RIs and scour eBay, and the like, in search for nice examples of
the *real deal*, as it were

A lot of people love the Weber blue dogs, the RI Blues, and others
only _the originals_ will do .

That said :
I just ordered another pair of the Fangs this morning . :D

I'm sold on them and among other things I like the tighter bass
response , which will loosen up a bit over time.

These speakers sound great .

big mike

04-12-2004, 10:27 AM

I'm going to order one and give it a shot after some of the reviews I'm seeing. Sounds really interesting to try. Must be better than my G12T75 in the cab now!!

Worse comes to worse, I'll try some blues later. Interesting read, this thread has been. I have gleened quite a bit if info as we have gone along. Thanks for sharing!

JamesPeters

04-12-2004, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by ROKY
I never expected it to be a direct replacement...

This had nothing to do with you or anyone else here expecting them to be an "exact match of the Celestion Blue". That phrase, "exact match of the Celestion Blue", was used by an Eminence rep to decribe the Red Fang to me. Well, when someone says "exact match", I expect it to be exact. Or reeeeeaaally close. Not "good in its own right, and based on the overall tone and response of the Celestion Blue". (Which of course is fine--but be honest about it, is what I figure.)

JohnnySavant

04-12-2004, 11:43 AM

How could a 30 watt speaker be an exact replica of a 15 watt speaker? The differen VCs alone will prevent them from sounding exactly alike.

My Red Fang arrives this week. I'll let you know what I think after I compare it to a Blue RI, Weber 30 watt alnico and ceramic blues, and vintage T1088 grays.

JamesPeters

04-12-2004, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by JohnnySavant
How could a 30 watt speaker be an exact replica of a 15 watt speaker? The differen VCs alone will prevent them from sounding exactly alike.

Tell that to Eminence, then. They're the one who specifically told me that the "Red Fang was designed to be an exact match for the Celestion Blue".

That's what I mean. I had my doubts too, from the fact they're done with different components. But when a rep says something like that specifically...well, what should I expect? Especially when the rest of the descriptions were more like "The Governor is similar to a Vintage 30" and so on. They only claimed that the Red Fang was an "exact match" for anything.

big mike

04-12-2004, 12:47 PM

Possibly the red fang is a specification 'exact match' for a particular Celestion Blue they have on hand? And of course the Reps will tell you anything to get the Biz.

JamesPeters

04-12-2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues
And of course the Reps will tell you anything to get the Biz.

That's what I don't like. When I contacted them, I was asking what they would compare to in terms of Celestions, as a very general basis for comparison so I'd know which models to try first. I also let them know I had experience with the Legend series. You figure in this case they might stop to think "Hmm, maybe we shouldn't hype the speakers to this guy too much--he might not appreciate it."

Oh well. I still want to try a bunch of their new speakers. When the 16 ohm versions are listed as being available on dealers' sites...and when I get around to it. At the moment though I have 10 Vintage 30s en route (should be here in the next day or so...)

big mike

04-12-2004, 01:12 PM

Yeah, that is a drag. When I was in retail, I got really tired of the reps that pulled stuff. Eminence makes a good product, and they should market it for what it is, as it looks like the corporate sight is doing, and take them for what they are, a twist on the Celestion.

I've even noticed a Hemp Cone one now. Tone Tubby must be making a dent.

JamesPeters

04-12-2004, 01:20 PM

It's different when sales reps do that to my face, with a product I can try right there in front of them. I love telling them what I think after they've tried to unduly hype something, and watch them backpedal. :) I guess I still look young and naive, because sales reps a good ten years younger than I will still do this to me...

Yeah, the hemp cone dealy, eh? Well, it'll be interesting to hear their take on it. I might be willing to believe that their design sounds preferrable to others I've heard, from my perspective anyway.

big mike

04-12-2004, 01:50 PM

Yeah, I've really learned a good sales lesson about that kind of thing. Nothing comes out of my mouth with a customer that's not the absolute truth, and I make sure I can back it up. In the long run it's a better way to do business. Never be afraid to tell someone ( especially someone more knowledgeable) I don't know, let me find out! Perhaps your rep needs a lesson on that!

I never bought into the hemp thing, though they sound good at Namm, I'll be interested to see what guys like you and Doug think about them!

jokerjkny

04-12-2004, 02:02 PM

anyone wanna suggest a dealer?

course, only after i figure out if i want the Swamp Thing or the Tonker. ;)

btw, Doug,

would you consider the Tonker as "round"? and did you try it for cleans?

dehughes

04-12-2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by JohnnySavant
How could a 30 watt speaker be an exact replica of a 15 watt speaker? The differen VCs alone will prevent them from sounding exactly alike.

My Red Fang arrives this week. I'll let you know what I think after I compare it to a Blue RI, Weber 30 watt alnico and ceramic blues, and vintage T1088 grays.

AWESOME. :) Looking forward to that for certain!

david

Scott_F

04-12-2004, 03:10 PM

I just took the plunge and ordered one from Dave at Avatar. The way I look at it, if you can get 90% of what the Blues give you, for 1/2 the price, it's a slam dunk.

ROKY

04-12-2004, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
This had nothing to do with you or anyone else here expecting them to be an "exact match of the Celestion Blue". That phrase, "exact match of the Celestion Blue", was used by an Eminence rep to decribe the Red Fang to me. Well, when someone says "exact match", I expect it to be exact. Or reeeeeaaally close. Not "good in its own right, and based on the overall tone and response of the Celestion Blue". (Which of course is fine--but be honest about it, is what I figure.)

I hear ya .

I had already looked at the specs and the power handling and
knew it wasn't going to be an exact match .

I said something similiar earlier in the thread .
One of the first guys to post, said that he could not distinguish,
a difference between the Fang and his RI CB .

I didn't think they were going to be identical; but knew it was
going to be a great speaker to try; and they are, to my ears.

The guy that bought one with no clue how a Real Blue sounded
and then put it in his Peavey amp and didn't like it, I also paid
little attention to . I also noted that when I got mine the bass
response was very good with a Strat .

He noted a pronounced lack of bass response(& strat quack)
I didn't have that problem, with my Strats .

But this strays a bit from your point which I understand; re: a
company rep MIS-respresenting product .

The Weber Thames speakers sound very similiar to an old Fane;
but Ted claims they are all but identical; which, to me, isn't likely,
with the much larger magnet structure of the Thames.

I would say(to anyone) if you are able to research and get specs,
then you would know that any exaggerated claims that don't
match up with specs is pretty easy to predict as "not quite" .

I think the vast majority of sales people exaggerate, knowingly or
unknowingly.

rwe333

04-12-2004, 04:07 PM

For what it's worth, I've always found the Eminence rep I deal with VERY honest and up-front - descriptions are accurate.

And James Peters:
You have yet to try these speakers for yourself - why are you assuming the Eminence rep has led you on? Based on someone else's review? Perhaps test before you condemn.
Just curious...

carltonh

04-12-2004, 04:09 PM

Question for Doug.

If the Eminence epiphany followed the Weber epiphany, it sounds like you're not going to be using the Webers? I'm also curious how many Webers you got around to trying and your opinions on those. I think the only ones I've read your comments on were your own custom Webers.

Question for James Peters: Didn't you say you removed doping from the Legend V12s with acetone? How different is the sound and how much of the doping did you remove?

JamesPeters

04-12-2004, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by rwe333
For what it's worth, I've always found the Eminence rep I deal with VERY honest and up-front - descriptions are accurate.

And James Peters:
You have yet to try these speakers for yourself - why are you assuming the Eminence rep has led you on? Based on someone else's review? Perhaps test before you condemn.
Just curious...

Tell you what. You compare them back to back, then tell me if they sound identical--how's that? :) At this point I'm not willing to slap down for a 10pcs purchase of them when they were supposed to sound "identical" and several people here alone say otherwise. My customers would expect them to sound identical, and I'd be left holding the bag.

I'll try them, sometime. But I'm not buying any at this point--yes, because of reviews here. Believe it or not, I take some people's opinions here quite seriously. You get to know when people are being objective, and who in general is level-headed about stuff like this.

Had three or four people here said "I can't tell the difference between them and my beloved Blues," by the same token I'd have bought 10pcs (or more) immediately. So I'm not a hypocrite or anything. :)

As for Eminence's descriptions being accurate...well, I think they could've been a little better at describing the tone of the Legend series. But then that crosses some murky water, trying to downplay the lack of detail compared to the Celestions they were somewhat based on. That's the part I had to find out the hard way which was only hinted at with phrases like "smooth top end" etc. To me, "smooth top end" doesn't mean "lack of detail", it means "smooth top end". But I'm pickier than most guys, I guess.

Originally posted by carltonh
Question for James Peters: Didn't you say you removed doping from the Legend V12s with acetone? How different is the sound and how much of the doping did you remove?

It's hard to say exactly how much I removed, because I didn't have any way of accurately measuring how much I removed. It was a fairly consistent amount from speaker to speaker, based on the amount of acetone I used and how many times I wiped around the edge of the speaker. It was the thickness of the doping that was reduced, so it's hard to judge by looking at it. But I'd say about half to two-thirds was removed. I decided to "go hard or go home" when I removed the doping on them, so I'd really notice a difference.

It made the speakers warmer and loosened the top and bottom end somewhat. They're a bit more natural sounding now. They didn't gain any detail in the process, which I was mostly hoping for--but they do sound sweeter. I have three of them that I'm going to sell by the way...make me an offer if you want 'em. Special limited edition Peters "treated" Eminence speakers, ha ha!

DerekMinnich

04-12-2004, 10:06 PM

Why do you have to buy 10 pieces...why not just do it in a little more moderation...maybe 1 or 2?

big mike

04-12-2004, 10:08 PM

I'm sure to get dealer pricing, there is a minimum order qty. Otherwise he would have to sell them for more than we can buy rthem someplace like avatar.

Roccaforte Amps

04-12-2004, 10:37 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carltonh
[B]Question for Doug.

If the Eminence epiphany followed the Weber epiphany, it sounds like you're not going to be using the Webers? I'm also curious how many Webers you got around to trying and your opinions on those. I think the only ones I've read your comments on were your own custom Webers.

Its like this, in this business we're always trying
new things looking for that "holly grail" piece
of gear, tube, guitar, amp ect...
Fact of the matter is, one piece of gear just
can't do it all.
Weber makes a good product, so does Eminence.
Its a tough call who is better, I prefer to say
they are all different.
Eminence certainly kicked things up a notch
with these new speakers, and Im using them too.
They are all options.
Nothing is cast in stone.
Doug

Roccaforte Amps

04-12-2004, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by jokerjkny
anyone wanna suggest a dealer?

course, only after i figure out if i want the Swamp Thing or the Tonker. ;)

btw, Doug,

would you consider the Tonker as "round"? and did you try it for cleans?

I ran just about everything here on the Tonker's,
they're so right, no weirdness what so ever.
Running an old Fender twin through them
turned that amp into a whole different animal,
bass notes were piano like. I like that.

Also, I need to mention "Big Ben", their 15" 8 ohm.
I put that speaker into my Fender Pro cab,
and ran my Rocca 45 reverb protoype into it.
I was literally blown away, cranked it held together
and yet still yielded good smooth compression
at the same time.
Im not a big 15" speaker fan, but this one is going
to stay in that cab.

The Govenor is a great Brittish type flavor,
it does all the right things, and yet has its own tone.
A great one at that.
Doug

JamesPeters

04-13-2004, 01:15 AM

Originally posted by DerekMinnich
Why do you have to buy 10 pieces...why not just do it in a little more moderation...maybe 1 or 2?

Partly what that other gent said. The other part is--I'm in Canada. Add extra shipping charges and brokerage to it. In the end, getting one or two of the new Eminence wasn't a very good deal at all.

If I were convinced they sounded "the same" as the Blues, then sure, why not. But I don't even want to sit on 2 speakers that I don't like if they're not going to sell locally. By the time I try to turn them around on Ebay or something, I'd be taking a loss.

And the way I've already been a guinea pig for the Legend series (probably one of the first people to report about the Legend series speakers on a few forums)--I automatically have my doubts as to whether the new Eminence will turn my crank. Like I keep saying, I'm willing to try them...but I won't bother buying them until I get a chance to hear them first. That may not happen for a while.

Anyway, this order was between me and a few of my customers. I'm keeping 5 of the speakers, and the other 5 are sold. I don't normally bring in speakers, but it was worth it once I got to order 10 at a time.

ericb

04-13-2004, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
[QUOTE]Originally posted by carltonh
[B]Question for Doug.

If the Eminence epiphany followed the Weber epiphany, it sounds like you're not going to be using the Webers? I'm also curious how many Webers you got around to trying and your opinions on those. I think the only ones I've read your comments on were your own custom Webers.

Its like this, in this business we're always trying
new things looking for that "holly grail" piece
of gear, tube, guitar, amp ect...
Fact of the matter is, one piece of gear just
can't do it all.
Weber makes a good product, so does Eminence.
Its a tough call who is better, I prefer to say
they are all different.
Eminence certainly kicked things up a notch
with these new speakers, and Im using them too.
They are all options.
Nothing is cast in stone.
Doug

GOOD POST! It's always WAY EASIER for people where things are in fact cast in stone, but I'll never be one of those people, with ANY aspect of life

ERIC

Tomo

04-16-2004, 09:17 PM

Hi Doug,

I just posted other Eminence related thread. I would like say
about Eminence speakers.

You also loved Tonker. This is it! Amazing.
Now I would like to get Red Fang too. I need more cabs.

I got Swamp thang, Tonker, Rajin Cajun, Ramrod.

Eminence made great new series of speakers. I tried many of them
at NAMM Show in January. I would like to say that all are great sounding speakers.
It was hard to choose from...but I chose those speakers.

Everybody has a diffrent taste so this is just my taste of speakers.

First I really liked "Swamp thang" I put 2 Swanp thang to
my Pro Reverb 65' and sound so thick, warm and good sutain.
got nice bottom. big sounding speaker.
A bit darker for me but 150 watts makes great headroom and
power.

(If you like less power, vintage style. "Screaming Eagle" is nice
choice. 75 watts. more brightness. I will get this next time.)

Then I put "Tonker" to another Pro Reverb 65' .I love this TONE.
Because I play clean Funk tone, Jazz, blues ...many styles.
This speaker got nice headroom, clear, punchy, yet big fat tone
same time. I love this. I used to use Celetion Sidewinder.
Tonker is far better Tone. i can use a lot of picking nuance to
control my tone. This speaker is very sensitive by touch.

(If you like less power and more fast overdrive, Private Jack,
50 watts. I remember at NAMM. This got great tone. I spent
3 days at Eminence Booth with my memo)

I also got Rajin Cajun on my Princeton and Vibroluxe.
Rajin Cajun is 10 inch speaker. But this one got big sound.
and nice from top to bottom. and no funny high-mids. Smooth
sound. I really liked. Tight bottom and clear top. Much louder.

Ramrod, I put those in closed cab, so it's hard to tell compare
to Rajin Cajun. I like this speakers too. Maybe Ramrod got
a bit brighter? Both 10 inch speakers are great. I keep
these too.

Just reference I got at least 6 pairs of speakers(other maker,
vintage,webers,celestions,jenson,EV) but Eminence did
wonderful job. It's easier to perform with new Eminence speakers.
Because Tone is good. I can just enjoy the ride.

I just finished my solo live (DVD) with my SRV and my Pro Reverb
amp(Tonker). I played solo guitar, mixed style of funk, jazz, and blues.
So everybody can hear the sound of "Tonker" soon.

I will post on www.aboptv.com very soon.
When it's ready, I will let you know.

Thanks,

Tomo

Roccaforte Amps

04-16-2004, 11:21 PM

Originally posted by Tomo
Hi Doug,

I just posted other Eminence related thread. I would like say
about Eminence speakers.

You also loved Tonker. This is it! Amazing.
Now I would like to get Red Fang too. I need more cabs.

I got Swamp thang, Tonker, Rajin Cajun, Ramrod.

Eminence made great new series of speakers. I tried many of them
at NAMM Show in January. I would like to say that all are great sounding speakers.
It was hard to choose from...but I chose those speakers.

Everybody has a diffrent taste so this is just my taste of speakers.

First I really liked "Swamp thang" I put 2 Swanp thang to
my Pro Reverb 65' and sound so thick, warm and good sutain.
got nice bottom. Scotti, you 'll like this. big sounding speaker.
A bit darker for me but 150 watts makes great headroom and
power.

(If you like less power, vintage style. "Screaming Eagle" is nice
choice. 75 watts. more brightness. I will get this next time.)

Then I put "Tonker" to another Pro Reverb 65' .I love this TONE.
Because I play clean Funk tone, Jazz, blues ...many styles.
This speaker got nice headroom, clear, punchy, yet big fat tone
same time. I love this. I used to use Celetion Sidewinder.
Tonker is far better Tone. i can use a lot of picking nuance to
control my tone. This speaker is very sensitive by touch.

(If you like less power and more fast overdrive, Private Jack,
50 watts. I remember at NAMM. This got great tone. I spent
3 days at Eminence Booth with my memo)

I also got Rajin Cajun on my Princeton and Vibroluxe.
Rajin Cajun is 10 inch speaker. But this one got big sound.
and nice from top to bottom. and no funny high-mids. Smooth
sound. I really liked. Tight bottom and clear top. Much louder.

Ramrod, I put those in closed cab, so it's hard to tell compare
to Rajin Cajun. I like this speakers too. Maybe Ramrod got
a bit brighter? Both 10 inch speakers are great. I keep
these too.

Just reference I got at least 6 pairs of speakers(other maker,
vintage,webers,celestions,jenson,EV) but Eminence did
wonderful job. It's easier to perform with new Eminence speakers.
Because Tone is good. I can just enjoy the ride.

I just finished my solo live (DVD) with my SRV and my Pro Reverb
amp(Tonker). I played solo guitar, mixed style of funk, jazz, and blues.
So everybody can hear the sound of "Tonker" soon.

I will post on www.aboptv.com very soon.
When it's ready, I will let you know.

Thanks,

Tomo

Tomo

The Tonker is a great speaker, the clean tones are incredible.
Doug

nashvillerocker

04-24-2004, 03:16 PM

it's coming down to these speakers for my Naylor Duel 60 head and CAE 2X12 closed back port theile cab at 16 ohms.

Weber (1) weber 1265 (1) Weber blue dog ceramic mags. 50w ea.

V30's but by reading everyone threads the EMI Gov is like the v30 but better.

Revernd All Tone when they were made by EMI a freind of mine has some that I will try.

what do you all think?

Thanks,
C. DiMella

Jon Silberman

04-24-2004, 03:58 PM

The Red Fang has landed, the Red Fang has landed!

Soon to be installed in a circa '73 Traynor YGM-3 in local No. VA. :D

Scott_F

04-24-2004, 04:38 PM

I've had a red fang in my Tweed Deluxe homebrew for the week now. It's pretty darn nice. Definitely a huge step up from the P12Q I had in there.

nashvillerocker

04-27-2004, 12:49 PM

I have been chating with the techs at Eminence at come down to this the Private Jack is a cleaner speaker and breaks up slower than the Gov which the techs say the Gov is just like celestion v30 in every way and brakes up faster and get's nasty at High stage vol which is cool for od tone but I hate V30's I play more clean and like the pwr tube distortion.

Has anyone tried the Private Jacks in a 2X12 cab closed back?

with a 50w or 100w marshall head or other 50w or 100w amps?

Thank you for support,
C.DiMella :cool:

ericb

04-27-2004, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by nashvillerocker
I have been chating with the techs at Eminence at come down to this the Private Jack is a cleaner speaker and breaks up slower than the Gov which the techs say the Gov is just like celestion v30 in every way and brakes up faster and get's nasty at High stage vol which is cool for od tone but I hate V30's I play more clean and like the pwr tube distortion.

Has anyone tried the Private Jacks in a 2X12 cab closed back?

with a 50w or 100w marshall head or other 50w or 100w amps?

Thank you for support,
C.DiMella :cool:

Hey C! How could the Private JAck be cleaner and break up less than a V30 if it's their version of a Greenback???? GB's are way less clean and break up way less than V30's! Inquiring minds wanna know... I have the Cannabis Rex and Red Fangs and both speakers are excellent for what they are...

ERIC

nashvillerocker

04-27-2004, 02:37 PM

I'm just passing info what tech at EMI told me. tech told me that the Private Jack uses a different cone than the gov. Man I don't belive everything these dudes at EMI told me and I agree with you dude. the cats at EMI are very cool and helpful but I don't think they have a lot of players there and what looks good on papper is on thing but what works is another.

Roccaforte Amps

04-27-2004, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by nashvillerocker
I have been chating with the techs at Eminence at come down to this the Private Jack is a cleaner speaker and breaks up slower than the Gov which the techs say the Gov is just like celestion v30 in every way and brakes up faster and get's nasty at High stage vol which is cool for od tone but I hate V30's I play more clean and like the pwr tube distortion.

Has anyone tried the Private Jacks in a 2X12 cab closed back?

with a 50w or 100w marshall head or other 50w or 100w amps?

Thank you for support,
C.DiMella :cool:

IMO, the Govenor sounds nothing like a V30,
but IMO its much better..
V30's don't break up faster,
they break up less than any other Celestion I have used.
I've never heard the nasty high thing you speak of either,
and I've used hundreds of V30's over the years.
The Govenor has a flavor all its own,
I don't hear any V30 tones in it, and i've ran these speakers
on every amp I have here.
My suggestion is to try them and see if you like them,
so far Im very impressed.Doug

nashvillerocker

04-28-2004, 09:25 AM

this is what EMI techs have to say both gave the same answer. I will be trying some of these and will get back soon I want to thank everyone on this thread for there help and kindness.

Thanks,
C.DiMella

The Private Jack breaks up a little slower than The Governor.

Yes, The Governor is rated for more power than the Jack. I know where you
are going with this, but you are a victim of a common misconception.
Power-handling does not necessarily dictate the break-up mode of a speaker.
Sure, if you have tons of power (more than the speaker will handle), you can
drive the coil out of the gap and get break up. But, the coil length
contributes to this too. You can have a really long coil that is very
thermally resistant and a soft suspension. It will handle tons of power,
but will break up quicker than another speaker with a short coil and a stiff
suspension. Make sense?

Other factors also contribute to the Power handling that have nothing to do
with break-up. For instance, you may have two speakers exactly alike except
one has a Kapton Bobbin, and the other has the paper bobbin. Both will have
a slightly different sound and dramatically different power-handling.

The Governor has more aggressive mids, more moderate highs and a higher
sensitivity than the Private Jack.

ericb

04-28-2004, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by ericb
Hey C! How could the Private JAck be cleaner and break up less than a V30 if it's their version of a Greenback???? GB's are way less clean and break up way less than V30's! Inquiring minds wanna know... I have the Cannabis Rex and Red Fangs and both speakers are excellent for what they are...

ERIC

Woops, just read my post above.. BIG TYPO... I meant GB's are way less clean and break up WAY MORE than V30's

ERIC

kannibul

04-28-2004, 03:33 PM

What does the Tonker sound like in comparison with other Celestions, specifically, a Vintage 30?

I'd also like to know more about the "swamp thing", in that same context.

:dude

Roccaforte Amps

04-28-2004, 05:21 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kannibul
[B]What does the Tonker sound like in comparison with other Celestions, specifically, a Vintage 30?

If I had to compare it to a V30,
it has a more defined bottom end,
and clarity, very balanced all the
way around. Takes overdrive
real well without getting compressed.
Very punchy, even at low volume.
The Govenor's are very similar,
but compress, and have a smoother
sounding overdrive with higher
gain amplifiers.
I could go either speaker, both are great.
Doug

Roccaforte Amps

04-30-2004, 09:37 AM

Still loving the new speakers! Doug

shallbe

04-30-2004, 09:39 AM

Doug,

Have you tried the Private Jack? Has anyone compared them to a good Greenback?

Roccaforte Amps

04-30-2004, 09:42 AM

Originally posted by shallbe
Doug,

Have you tried the Private Jack? Has anyone compared them to a good Greenback?

Not yet, next order. The Govenor and Tonker
could be the only two speakers available
in this world and I'd still be happy!
Doug

MightyGuru

04-30-2004, 03:29 PM

I put a Red Fang (thanks, Carl!) in my MAZ Sr Wednesday. So far, I've only played at low volumes but I really like the fang already. Definitely has the vibe I was looking for. I'm using the fang in conjunction with a G12H30.

I replaced the V30 which really wasn't the right speaker for what I want out of the MAZ. I can't wait to try the new driver at the gigs this weekend. I'll update in a while.

davetcan

04-30-2004, 08:02 PM

First of all Hi to everyone!
I'm looking to replace the G12T-75's in my Marshall 1936 2x12 cab. I find them to be quite harsh and brittle at the top end. I was wondering which of the new Eminence line you would recommend. The Tonker and Private Jack sound like possibilities but I'm open to any recommendations. I don't want to lose the top end all together just smooth it out as much as possible.
The 1936 is a closed back cab and I usually power it with a Carvin Legacy VL100 head. I play a mix of guitars, LP Std, Strat, and 2 Tele's, and play mostly Blues (british style) and classic rock.

Dave

carltonh

04-30-2004, 09:06 PM

I hope someone gets to try and tell us about the "Texas Heat" From the looks of it, it should be like the "Tonker" as a fat clean but American sounding with some British edge to it.

It sounds like what I'd like to put in my Pritchard, as I want to get authentic Fender and Marshall tones. The Tonker sounds like it would be good too, but I'm thinking it may color the Fender sounds too much to sound authentic Fendery.

I played a Heritage amp with a Texas Heat at the Dallas Guitar Show, and the amp sounded great. However, I'd never heard any Heritage amp before, and couldn't compare it through other speakers, so I don't really know what part was the tone of the Texas Heat.

JamesPeters

04-30-2004, 09:59 PM

Originally posted by davetcan
First of all Hi to everyone!
I'm looking to replace the G12T-75's in my Marshall 1936 2x12 cab. I find them to be quite harsh and brittle at the top end. I was wondering which of the new Eminence line you would recommend. The Tonker and Private Jack sound like possibilities but I'm open to any recommendations. I don't want to lose the top end all together just smooth it out as much as possible.
The 1936 is a closed back cab and I usually power it with a Carvin Legacy VL100 head. I play a mix of guitars, LP Std, Strat, and 2 Tele's, and play mostly Blues (british style) and classic rock.

Dave

Hi Dave,

Well, the 1936 itself is a bright cabinet. The G12T-75 speakers actually sound considerably better in cabs like straight 4x12s--you'd never think they were harsh or brittle in those cabs.

As for what might work with your cabinet, that's hard to say. I don't like that cab's design overall. I think it might prove to be an uphill battle but I guess it depends on how much you expect in the end.

You may like the Eminence Legend V12 in that case. It has smoother top end (at the cost of some detail), sounds overall like a Vintage 30 for breakup but has no strong mid spike like Vintage 30s. The lows are fairly big sounding.

davetcan

05-01-2004, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
Hi Dave,

Well, the 1936 itself is a bright cabinet. The G12T-75 speakers actually sound considerably better in cabs like straight 4x12s--you'd never think they were harsh or brittle in those cabs.

As for what might work with your cabinet, that's hard to say. I don't like that cab's design overall. I think it might prove to be an uphill battle but I guess it depends on how much you expect in the end.

That's an interesting observation James. I had also been toying with the idea of getting a new 2x12 cab, or even two single 12" cabs from Dave @ Avatar and just selling the Marshall cab as is. It's in great shape so I'b probably make out alright. Decisions..decisions :)

JamesPeters

05-01-2004, 11:03 AM

I have gotten good sounds from the 1936 cabinet, but it involved getting it to volumes with which I'm not comfortable for long periods of time. It was still on the bright side, but you could see what they had in mind when they designed the cab--it was meant to be played loud.

kannibul

05-01-2004, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
I have gotten good sounds from the 1936 cabinet, but it involved getting it to volumes with which I'm not comfortable for long periods of time. It was still on the bright side, but you could see what they had in mind when they designed the cab--it was meant to be played loud.

I was able to tame the brightness a bit by adding some carpet padding to the back panel and sides of the cab.

Roccaforte Amps

05-01-2004, 04:55 PM

Originally posted by kannibul
I was able to tame the brightness a bit by adding some carpet padding to the back panel and sides of the cab.

This usually only dampens the bass response.
The best thing to cut highs is using grill cloth
thats restrictive like checkerboard, or cane.
Doug

davetcan

05-01-2004, 06:06 PM

Doug would you agree with James that it's the nature of the cab? I don't want to eliminate the highs just change their texture (if that's the right word). I find them very harsh and "ice picky". I was very close to ordering a pair of Tonkers to try and sweeten it up a bit.

Dave

JamesPeters

05-01-2004, 07:48 PM

I'm not Doug (thank GOD for that...:D ;) ), but I think the overall design of that cab is for a brighter response and more upper mids. Shaving off some of the presence by using different grill material is definitely feasible, but I think you might still want the cabinet a bit "warmer" sounding in the end.

mrmojorisin

05-02-2004, 05:54 AM

Doug,

Have you tried any of the Eminence speakers in your 18 watt, 1x12 combo?

What would you recommend in this one? Red Fang maybe, given the lower power? Or would you still lean toward the Tonker!

Thx!

dbeeman

05-02-2004, 06:42 AM

I was able to tame the brightness a bit by adding some carpet padding to the back panel and sides of the cab.

This usually only dampens the bass response.

Putting acoustically absorbant material on the sides and/or back cuts back on mids / upper mids (what we often call highs in guitardom) being reflected off the inside of the cab to the speaker cone. It will generally smooth these freqs out and bring about at least an apparent lowering in amplitute of those freqs.

Of course YMMV, especially depending on what you use. You might want to try Wool batting or dense poly batting.

Roccaforte Amps

05-02-2004, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by mrmojorisin
Doug,

Have you tried any of the Eminence speakers in your 18 watt, 1x12 combo?

What would you recommend in this one? Red Fang maybe, given the lower power? Or would you still lean toward the Tonker!

Thx!

I liked the Govenor best in the Cust18. Doug

Roccaforte Amps

05-02-2004, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by dbeeman
Putting acoustically absorbant material on the sides and/or back cuts back on mids / upper mids (what we often call highs in guitardom) being reflected off the inside of the cab to the speaker cone. It will generally smooth these freqs out and bring about at least an apparent lowering in amplitute of those freqs.

Of course YMMV, especially depending on what you use. You might want to try Wool batting or dense poly batting.

It soaks up bass, and reduces cab ringing
by eliminating flat hard walls for the sound
to bounce off of.

Rog

05-02-2004, 12:32 PM

What are Tonkers and Govenors?

Thanks

big mike

05-02-2004, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by Rog
What are Tonkers and Govenors?

Thanks

New models of Eminence speakers in the RedCoat series. US Made, and should kick Celestion's A$$.

Brit flavoured tone, their own Beast, influenced, but not copies of celestions.

Where you been? :D

Rog

05-02-2004, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues

Where you been? :D

In Britain? :p

dbeeman

05-02-2004, 01:09 PM

In Britain?

...... where they no longer make those fine, used to be English, Celestions speakers

big mike

05-02-2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by dbeeman
...... where they no longer make those fine, used to be English, Celestions speakers

Now Now, they still make the blues.

And if we tried to live without anything made overseas, we'd be naked and talking into a tin can.

I'm not happy with Celestion's decision either, but the product is still good.

I'm looking forward to getting a chance to play with the new Emi's at somepoint. I like the idea that it is it's own tone, just has some brit flavour in the redcoat series.

big mike

05-02-2004, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Rog
In Britain? :p

I was in London last month, I like Britian.

Just gotta read up on these speaker posts:Spank

Rog

05-02-2004, 01:17 PM

Its good to hang with some good honest tone junkies. One day will hoik that US Made EVM12L PA speaker out of my Boog! ;)

big mike

05-02-2004, 01:22 PM

Originally posted by Rog
Its good to hang with some good honest tone junkies. One day will hoik that US Made EVM12L PA speaker out of my Boog! ;)

Too heavy and too clean.

Must need a Tonker!

Rog

05-02-2004, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues
Too heavy and too clean.

Must need a Tonker!
Thanks for the advice. In a few weeks I will post something on here which will make you smile - until then, thanks for the information. :)

JamesPeters

05-02-2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
I soaks up bass,

http://www.everwonder.com/david/popeye/10007653.jpg

JamesPeters

05-02-2004, 02:04 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues

I'm not happy with Celestion's decision either, but the product is still good.

I'm looking forward to getting a chance to play with the new Emi's at somepoint. I like the idea that it is it's own tone, just has some brit flavour in the redcoat series.

I agree to all of this.

big mike

05-02-2004, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
I agree to all of this.

Thanks. It's always nice to have ones opinions validated.

Kind Regards,
Mike

JamesPeters

05-02-2004, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues
Thanks. It's always nice to have ones opinions validated.

Makes us feel special. :D

I just don't see the point of bashing perfectly good Celestions just because Eminence has some speakers that will hang with them nowadays.

I was actually very much on the fence between buying some Vintage 30s or the Governors recently...but the kicker was that Eminence released 8 ohm versions of everything first and not 16 ohm versions. This time around, I didn't feel like waiting.

big mike

05-02-2004, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
Makes us feel special. :D

I just don't see the point of bashing perfectly good Celestions just because Eminence has some speakers that will hang with them nowadays.

I was actually very much on the fence between buying some Vintage 30s or the Governors recently...but the kicker was that Eminence released 8 ohm versions of everything first and not 16 ohm versions. This time around, I didn't feel like waiting.

Gotta do what we gotta do! I really can't hear the diff with the china celestions, I just like the idea that the Emi's are a new thing, not a copy. More excuses to buy more gear and continue the tone search!

Phatman

05-02-2004, 03:57 PM

Is it true that their are tonal difference in response between 8 and 16 ohm speakers ? I have never had two of the same type of speakers with 8 and 16 ohms. I have heard that depending upon how the voice coils are wound that there is cross coupling in some voice coils but not in others with large edge wound voice coils.

The Phatman (RD, Fremont)

big mike

05-02-2004, 04:28 PM

Originally posted by Phatman
Is it true that their are tonal difference in response between 8 and 16 ohm speakers ? I have never had two of the same type of speakers with 8 and 16 ohms. I have heard that depending upon how the voice coils are wound that there is cross coupling in some voice coils but not in others with large edge wound voice coils.

The Phatman (RD, Fremont)

Well, Im sure there is, but I'm not so sure you could prove or disprove it as no two speakers will sound exactly the same, and the same amp could sound different at the different ohms level.

Welcome to the page.

JamesPeters

05-02-2004, 05:55 PM

The reason I wanted 16 ohm versions wasn't for any tonal differences, but rather to fulfill my impedance requirements (for me and a couple other local guys who went in on the batch of speakers). I could only get one 8 ohm speaker and the rest had to be 16 ohms. (And that one guy who wanted that one 8 ohm speaker insisted on a Vintage 30 in the first place anyway.)

Roccaforte Amps

05-02-2004, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
http://www.everwonder.com/david/popeye/10007653.jpg

Boy, your wit is going strong today.
Back off that Canandian brew! LOL

I fixed the typo, Doug:dude

Roccaforte Amps

05-02-2004, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by Phatman
Is it true that their are tonal difference in response between 8 and 16 ohm speakers ? I have never had two of the same type of speakers with 8 and 16 ohms. I have heard that depending upon how the voice coils are wound that there is cross coupling in some voice coils but not in others with large edge wound voice coils.

The Phatman (RD, Fremont)

Honestly, I can go either way.
16 ohm speakers seem to produce
more midrange, at least to my ears.

I used to rewire my 16ohm Marshall cabs
to 4ohms, the bottom end is huge when you
do that. As my hearing as changed,
Im back to 16ohm again.

With multi tap output transformers
you want to use your largest tap,
this way you're using the full winding.
Doug

nashvillerocker

05-02-2004, 09:14 PM

I have had 8 ohm cabs and 16 ohm cabs. To my ears the using 8 ohms is a more smoother tone less bottom end which is cool but I like 16 ohms better more bottom end and balls all my cabs are 16 ohms some times I'll have my amp at 8 ohms and run it through 16 ohm cabs nice tones too but for the most part always run head at 16 ohms with 16 ohm cabs. It's all what tones you want to get.

I love Lukather, VH, Dan Huff,Robben ford. I have light picking hand so 16 ohms is very cool for my styles. What ever works for you is the key speakers are very cool for everyones tones but lets not forget it's all in the hand!

Phatman

05-02-2004, 09:29 PM

I tend to like the tone and the feel of a full stack. If I run 16 ohms buy looping two 8 ohm cabs I seem to get allot more chunk. I attribute that to the having more inductance in series rather than paralelled. So I like 8 ohm 4x12 cabs because I get more of the chunky tones when connected in this way. I have never had 16 ohm 4x12 cabs and to run them I would have to parallel them so they would be running at 8 ohms. I guess Doug said it when you use the 16 ohm tap you get more energy from the tranny. I expect the tranny aslo runs cooler and this may also affect tone when running full out for any length of time...

Roccaforte Amps

05-02-2004, 11:02 PM

Originally posted by Phatman
I tend to like the tone and the feel of a full stack. If I run 16 ohms buy looping two 8 ohm cabs I seem to get allot more chunk. I attribute that to the having more inductance in series rather than paralelled. So I like 8 ohm 4x12 cabs because I get more of the chunky tones when connected in this way. I have never had 16 ohm 4x12 cabs and to run them I would have to parallel them so they would be running at 8 ohms. I guess Doug said it when you use the 16 ohm tap you get more energy from the tranny. I expect the tranny aslo runs cooler and this may also affect tone when running full out for any length of time...

Actually, you get more power at 4 ohms, not 16.
No, the transformer doesn't run cooler.
Doug

JamesPeters

05-02-2004, 11:53 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Actually, you get more power at 4 ohms, not 16.
No, the transformer doesn't run cooler.
Doug

You may get more power at 4 ohms, but the sound is chunkier at 16...at least from what I've found. There seems to be a more even and somewhat softer feel when using a cab at 4 ohms, and setting the amp to match. Feels like there's more damping that way, and less at 16.

JamesPeters

05-02-2004, 11:55 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps

Back off that Canandian brew! LOL

No way, man. I love my coffee. :)

ahellam

05-02-2004, 11:55 PM

Hey Doug,
What about tone differences when using different output impedances?

davetcan

05-03-2004, 09:12 AM

I just ordered 2 16ohm Tonkers to go in my 1936 cab. I'll keep you posted on my findings. I figure if the cab still sounds overly bright I'll just put the Celestions back in and sell it. Then I can order an unloaded 2x12 cab from Avatar or even 2 single 12's to save my back:)

Dave

Roccaforte Amps

05-03-2004, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by ahellam
Hey Doug,
What about tone differences when using different output impedances?

The lower impedances work the tubes harder,
why you'll get more power out using the
lowest tap on your output transformer.
However, for this to work, your speaker
impedances must match this tap.
The lower tap will have more bottom end,
the higher tap will sound a bit more balanced.
Speakers do play a major part of whats happening,
your signal gets reflected back by them.
Doug

reachjkh

05-03-2004, 10:48 AM

Originally posted by davetcan
...2x12 cab from Avatar or even 2 single 12's to save my back:)

Dave

I don't see 1x12 cabs on Avatar's site anymore.

Troy Baer

05-03-2004, 11:56 AM

Originally posted by reachjkh
I don't see 1x12 cabs on Avatar's site anymore.

That's wacky... I just bought a 1x12 from them last summer. Wonder why they're not listed any more...

--Troy

aleclee

05-03-2004, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Troy Baer
That's wacky... I just bought a 1x12 from them last summer. Wonder why they're not listed any more...Seems like Dave has been phasing out the smaller cabs, perhaps for lack of demand. The small 212 has been history for a while, too.

ericb

05-03-2004, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by aleclee
Seems like Dave has been phasing out the smaller cabs, perhaps for lack of demand. The small 212 has been history for a while, too.

That'd be too bad, as I use 1 of his open backed 1x12 cubes with a Mesa /Cele mc90 speaker in it at a good 3/4 of my gigs and 3/4 of my pickup gigs, or rehearsals these days.. It's a KICKASS sounding , lots of bass, even toned, and liteweight cab that's dirt cheap compared to the inflated prices lots of people pay on this board for cabs!!!!!! I hope it's not due to lack of demand. Oh well

ERIC

Roccaforte Amps

05-03-2004, 12:33 PM

Originally posted by ericb
That'd be too bad, as I use 1 of his open backed 1x12 cubes with a Mesa /Cele mc90 speaker in it at a good 3/4 of my gigs and 3/4 of my pickup gigs, or rehearsals these days.. It's a KICKASS sounding , lots of bass, even toned, and liteweight cab that's dirt cheap compared to the inflated prices lots of people pay on this board for cabs!!!!!! I hope it's not due to lack of demand. Oh well

ERIC

Im not sure what you mean by inflated cab prices,
I suggest everyone open thier cabs and look at construction.
Same goes for the amps, "it is" part of what you're paying for.
Carry on.

ericb

05-03-2004, 12:36 PM

Originally posted by Echoplex
Couldn't this have something to do with the fact that the RF's were not broken in yet and the Blues were?

Let me ask you guys this? Or at least bring this up as a point... Many times I read about people a/bing speakers.. Then they post the results. OK, if the RED FANG claimed it was the EXACT same speaker as the BLUE then that's a valid post of course! If not, then why not change the eq settings on your amp to determine which speaker sounds better to you at the setting you'd use, or if they can be dialed in to sound exactly the same etc? That's why amps have eq's. Also of course it'd have to be the same cabinet too, to have a real a/b comparison (that's obvious so I probably shouldn't even type that) and it seems this comparison was with the same cab (good!) ... ANyway, unless a speaker IS in fact the exact same one, different eq settings produce different results.. That said, I like the Red Fang a good deal , but have no Blues to compare it too.. I like the Cannabis Rex more .
ERIC

Roccaforte Amps

05-03-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by ericb
Let me ask you guys this? Or at least bring this up as a point... Many times I read about people a/bing speakers.. Then they post the results. OK, if the RED FANG claimed it was the EXACT same speaker as the BLUE then that's a valid post of course! If not, then why not change the eq settings on your amp to determine which speaker sounds better to you at the setting you'd use, or if they can be dialed in to sound exactly the same etc? That's why amps have eq's. Also of course it'd have to be the same cabinet too, to have a real a/b comparison (that's obvious so I probably shouldn't even type that) and it seems this comparison was with the same cab (good!) ... ANyway, unless a speaker IS in fact the exact same one, different eq settings produce different results.. That said, I like the Red Fang a good deal , but have no Blues to compare it too.. I like the Cannabis Rex more .
ERIC

Here's another thought;
Everyone posting the same review
on these speakers has a different
set of ears, amplifiers, and guitars.
But, they're all hearing the same
thing. How can this be?
Im not trying to give a hard time,
just pointing something out here.

ericb

05-03-2004, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Im not sure what you mean by inflated cab prices,
I suggest everyone open thier cabs and look at construction.
Same goes for the amps, "it is" part of what you're paying for.
Carry on. \

Hey Doug, if you're not sure what I mean by it, 8 years on a forum like this will easily give you the definition. Of course it's not just this forum , but people with money are willing to pay huge prices for things. That's cool ,and if someone wants a beautiful 1-off custom cabinet for 1500.00 I can relate to that!! I can't pay it , nor would I , but I can relate to loving owning things other don't have! BUT, when someone just only buys something for the brand name without regard to construction techniques , components, and most of all SOUND and DURABILITY , nah.. I can't relate.... I own lots of cabs .. I have a 1975 Marshall 4x12 I've had for about 19 years, an Engl 4x12 for about 5 years, a Bogner 2x12 (the bigger one.. 7 years now) , and others including a White Sands Pine /Tweed 2x12 (from California) , a Bagend 1x12, a Naylor 2x12,etc.. Some are big names , some not unique,etc.. The Avatar 1x12 cube is AWESOME... That's all I'm saying.. It sounds great, is built just fine, is totally durable and costs what about 250.00 loaded?? I don't know, I think I got mine loaded with a g12h30 (I replaced that with other speakers and settled on an MC90 for my gigging needs) for less than 200.00.

ERIC

ericb

05-03-2004, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Here's another thought;
Everyone posting the same review
on these speakers has a different
set of ears, amplifiers, and guitars.
But, they're all hearing the same
thing. How can this be?
Im not trying to give a hard time,
just pointing something out here.

No problem , you're a lot like me! I'm not saying they're a Cele Blue clone by any means at all.. I'm just saying guys should dial in their amps finding sweet spots , and also dial them in differently each time they change gear.. EVERY single time I change my cabs or pedals for a different gig , the amp is also involved in that equation and typically gets adjusted. .. Because as you're stating there are many vairables when it comes to tone.. ears, amps, pu's, guitars, cabs,etc. How many reviews have you read where people said the same thing? about 5? on 1 forum? Guess what? PSYCHOLOGY now is involved... Of course you know that too... peer pressure, consensus,etc.. SCW posted a thread about it a few months back.. Do you know how many guys on the internet post questions like " What do you recommend for speakers? I trust your ears. " How could you ever trust someone else's ears when it came to speakers or tone? That makes no sense to me... Anyway, whether or not you're giving me a hard time, or pointing out the above, I respect that and everyone should use their own ears, and NOT rely on others, or clicques, for decisions, that's for sure! Have you tried the Cannabis REX yet? It's a great speaker.....
ERIC

nashvillerocker

05-03-2004, 01:04 PM

Has anyone used these speakers in a recording session? It would be cool to juge the EMI this way. We all or must of us know how celestions sound on recordings.

Thanks.

fullerplast

05-03-2004, 01:19 PM

OK, if the RED FANG claimed it was the EXACT same speaker as the BLUE then that's a valid post of course! If not, then why not change the eq settings on your amp

True enough, but at the beginning of these threads there were a couple of guys who said they couldn't tell the difference between a Red Fang and a Blue (from memory). If you want to try to explain what the difference between them is tonally, you need to keep the EQ the same. Since then the general drift has been OK, it's not the same but it's still a good speaker. That's fine and I agree entirely with tweaking an amp to optimize the speaker's tone. But if somebody says a RF sounds exactly like a Blue, tweaking the amp means it doesn't.

Everyone posting the same review
on these speakers has a different
set of ears, amplifiers, and guitars.
But, they're all hearing the same
thing. How can this be?

I'm not sure what you mean by this, it seems like there are plenty of opinions. IMHO the best way to characterize tone is to compare it to a recognized standard. In other words, something like "the Tonker has a tighter bottom end than a V30" is infinately more valuable than something like "the Tonker rawks!"

ericb

05-03-2004, 02:33 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by fullerplast
[B]True enough, but at the beginning of these threads there were a couple of guys who said they couldn't tell the difference between a Red Fang and a Blue (from memory). If you want to try to explain what the difference between them is tonally, you need to keep the EQ the same. Since then the general drift has been OK, it's not the same but it's still a good speaker. That's fine and I agree entirely with tweaking an amp to optimize the speaker's tone. But if somebody says a RF sounds exactly like a Blue, tweaking the amp means it doesn't.

Thanks Fullerplast. I agree entirely with your paragraph.. I didn't even remember at the beginning of this long thread (or another one) that there were posts where people said they were exactly the same sounding. I have a hard time even finding 2 speakers of the same type that are EXACTLY the same! Anyway, thanks for the post, clarification, and acknowledgement re: amp tweaking to optimize other items in the chain (be they your new pedal, your new speaker, your new cabinet,etc! )

ERIC

Roccaforte Amps

05-03-2004, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by ericb
No problem , you're a lot like me! I'm not saying they're a Cele Blue clone by any means at all.. I'm just saying guys should dial in their amps finding sweet spots , and also dial them in differently each time they change gear.. EVERY single time I change my cabs or pedals for a different gig , the amp is also involved in that equation and typically gets adjusted. .. Because as you're stating there are many vairables when it comes to tone.. ears, amps, pu's, guitars, cabs,etc. How many reviews have you read where people said the same thing? about 5? on 1 forum? Guess what? PSYCHOLOGY now is involved... Of course you know that too... peer pressure, consensus,etc.. SCW posted a thread about it a few months back.. Do you know how many guys on the internet post questions like " What do you recommend for speakers? I trust your ears. " How could you ever trust someone else's ears when it came to speakers or tone? That makes no sense to me... Anyway, whether or not you're giving me a hard time, or pointing out the above, I respect that and everyone should use their own ears, and NOT rely on others, or clicques, for decisions, that's for sure! Have you tried the Cannabis REX yet? It's a great speaker.....
ERIC

No, I haven't tried it. My experience with Hemp cones
wasn't too good in the past.
Im very satisfied with the Eminence speakers Im using
currently, and it will take something way better to top
them, at this point I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

I agree with you on the "recomend a speaker ect..." threads.
People just need to try things for themselves,
I understand it costs, but that's what we get for being
guitar players.
Hell, I've played with so many singers who would
blow right out of the gig after the last song, not having
to carry any gear, only at the most a mic.
Good guitar gear costs, and if getting the best tone
matters, or is some kind of quest, you'll just have
to try different things for yourself, and form
your own opinions, and tastes.

Many gear threads are ridiculous,
sometimes I even wonder if the person
posting has actually owned or played
the gear being reviewed.
That's the net, should be taken lightly at times.
Doug

big mike

05-03-2004, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
No, I haven't tried it. My experience with Hemp cones
wasn't too good in the past.
Im very satisfied with the Eminence speakers Im using
currently, and it will take something way better to top
them, at this point I don't think that's going to happen anytime soon.

I agree with you on the "recomend a speaker ect..." threads.
People just need to try things for themselves,
I understand it costs, but that's what we get for being
guitar players.
Hell, I've played with so many singers who would
blow right out of the gig after the last song, not having
to carry any gear, only at the most a mic.
Good guitar gear costs, and if getting the best tone
matters, or is some kind of quest, you'll just have
to try different things for yourself, and form
your own opinions, and tastes.

Many gear threads are ridiculous,
sometimes I even wonder if the person
posting has actually owned or played
the gear being reviewed.
That's the net, should be taken lightly at times.
Doug

+1 Doug. Great Points.

ericb

05-03-2004, 07:08 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues
+1 Doug. Great Points.

I agree too .. Great points... I will say I haven't tried the other hemp speakers. There were many many negative posts on them on the net, after the 1st flow of positive posts.. However, I've owned lots of speakers and if someone likes a really big sounding AMURICAN-type speaker the Cannabis Rex is killer. It's very evenly balanced, not dark at all, and sounds like an old C12N-type speaker but with big solid bass and big sound. It's not a british -type , and nothing like EV's,etc. Handles hi-gain as well as lo-gain well too... I have to try the ones you've recommended for sure.. Carry on! ERIC

nashvillerocker

05-03-2004, 07:11 PM

this store has a 45 day return on emi speakers.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=113#redcoat

I worte them and told me it's 45 days on all speakers.

you can write or call them for more info.

Later

Roccaforte Amps

05-03-2004, 10:50 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues
+1 Doug. Great Points.

Im a pain in the ass, but sometimes Im right .:p

Tomo

05-05-2004, 08:53 PM

Originally posted by ericb
I agree too .. Great points... I will say I haven't tried the other hemp speakers. There were many many negative posts on them on the net, after the 1st flow of positive posts.. However, I've owned lots of speakers and if someone likes a really big sounding AMURICAN-type speaker the Cannabis Rex is killer. It's very evenly balanced, not dark at all, and sounds like an old C12N-type speaker but with big solid bass and big sound. It's not a british -type , and nothing like EV's,etc. Handles hi-gain as well as lo-gain well too... I have to try the ones you've recommended for sure.. Carry on! ERIC

I have Eminence 's Screaming Eagle. I really like this speaker too.
,great sounding American type speaker.
Screaming Eagle has nice brightness and enough bottom end.
I have old C12N also. Very similar vibe and more efficient.

If you want more fat and big sound. Swamp Thang is great too.
I will check the Cannbis Rex if I have a chance.

Tomo

Scott_F

05-05-2004, 09:01 PM

[i] How could you ever trust someone else's ears when it came to speakers or tone? That makes no sense to me... ERIC [/B]

haha, don't trust my ears. with my tinnitus, all my amps sound like they have crickets in them! :)

But, I really am impressed with the Red Fang I put into my Tweed Deluxe 5e3 I built. I like it better than the P12Q that was in there. I"m not familiar enough with the Blues to give a good comparison. I've played some blues through several Vox amps, but hard to compare a speaker in a Vox to a Tweed clone. :)

Red Fangs really tame the crickets I guess. :)

ericb

05-06-2004, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by Tomo
I have Eminence 's Screaming Eagle. I really like this speaker too.
,great sounding American type speaker.
Screaming Eagle has nice brightness and enough bottom end.
I have old C12N also. Very similar vibe and more efficient.

If you want more fat and big sound. Swamp Thang is great too.
I will check the Cannbis Rex if I have a chance.

Tomo

Hey Tomo, I'm actually pretty amazed at the large variety of speakers they released at once.. I figured they might issue 3-4 models but there really is about a dozen new 12" speakers they've issued.. Ah well, great to have options! ERIC

Roccaforte Amps

05-06-2004, 09:18 AM

Originally posted by Scott_F
haha, don't trust my ears. with my tinnitus, all my amps sound like they have crickets in them! :)

But, I really am impressed with the Red Fang I put into my Tweed Deluxe 5e3 I built. I like it better than the P12Q that was in there. I"m not familiar enough with the Blues to give a good comparison. I've played some blues through several Vox amps, but hard to compare a speaker in a Vox to a Tweed clone. :)

Red Fangs really tame the crickets I guess. :)

You have crickets?
That's the first time I've ever heard
it mentioned this way, I have them too!
At high volume that is, my ears crackle
sometimes.

Roccaforte Amps

05-06-2004, 01:52 PM

Jon Silberman

05-06-2004, 04:41 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Im a pain in the ass, but sometimes Im right .:p

Even a broken clock is right 2X a day.

...

I'M JOKING, I PROMISE!!! :D

Jon Silberman

05-06-2004, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by nashvillerocker
this store has a 45 day return on emi speakers.
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=113#redcoat

I worte them and told me it's 45 days on all speakers.

you can write or call them for more info.

Later

Parts Express wants $129 for one. Doug at Avatar is charging $119. Naturally, I bought mine from Doug. ;)

davetcan

05-06-2004, 05:29 PM

I got my two Tonkers for $120 Canadian each and dropped them in my cab last night. First impressions are very good but I'll withhold final judgement until they're broken in a bit.

Dave

sashjo

05-06-2004, 06:17 PM

Hi Doug.

On your web-site I was listening to your soundbytes. I loved the way the 18 watt amp sounded. Lord...That amp sounds great! Of course the speaker used is just a part of a much bigger chain but I was wondering what it was. Is it the Eminence Gov? Anyway. That amp sounds tremendous. Thanks.

Josh

Tomo

05-06-2004, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by ericb
Hey Tomo, I'm actually pretty amazed at the large variety of speakers they released at once.. I figured they might issue 3-4 models but there really is about a dozen new 12" speakers they've issued.. Ah well, great to have options! ERIC

Hi Eric,

Yes, that was too many at once. When I was at NAMM show.
I spent many hours playing with each one. Each one has slightly
different, all good sounding speaker. None of them was bad. That's why
I couldn't decide which one to choose. But more choices we have,
it's great for all of us. We all have a different taste. I thnik they worked
very hard to produce these.

So far I start liking more toward "Patriot" Screaming Eagle, Swamp thang
,Ragin Cajun. I would like to try Texas Heat next.

Tomo

Tone Loco

05-06-2004, 06:44 PM

Tomo, did I read in one of your posts that you've got a Fuchs?

Have you tried any of the eminences with it, and if so what did you like best? Not sure if you have a head or combo (or if I even remember right about the Fuchs actually...) but I'd be interested in what your speaker set up is anyhow.

ericb

05-06-2004, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Im just about to make another order,
tough to decide what to try next.
Im gonna add a few different ones,
I'll write back. Doug

Cool, can't wait to hear your impressions! Geez ,there's the whole Patriot series, and then the whole Redcoat series too! Lots to choose from . Funny hearing those names up here in VT, as it's typically Yankees vs. Red Sox instead. Oh well... keep us posted

ERIC

Roccaforte Amps

05-06-2004, 06:56 PM

Originally posted by sashjo
Hi Doug.

On your web-site I was listening to your soundbytes. I loved the way the 18 watt amp sounded. Lord...That amp sounds great! Of course the speaker used is just a part of a much bigger chain but I was wondering what it was. Is it the Eminence Gov? Anyway. That amp sounds tremendous. Thanks.

Josh

Those are old clips,
some where the head runing on a 412"
w/greenbacks, the combos came stock
with a Vintage 30.
That amp sounds great with just about any
speaker, I've used vintage Jensens, Weber,
Eminence ect...
Never had any bad results.
Doug

Roccaforte Amps

05-06-2004, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by Jon Silberman
Even a broken clock is right 2X a day.

...

I'M JOKING, I PROMISE!!! :D

Sure you are, I never forget!!!!!!!:p

big mike

05-06-2004, 07:36 PM

Anyone tried the Copperhead or any other 10's yet? Tomo said some cool things about the ragin Cajun, I'm curious if anyone has tried them yet.

Thanks,
Mike

sashjo

05-06-2004, 08:26 PM

no doubt. that amp is real nice.

thanks. jc

Steve Snider

05-06-2004, 08:59 PM

Red Fangs and Tonker and Guv just arrived and the Fangs seem to have just what I want. Great for the clean tones. Put em in a partially open Antone 2X12 tall cab. Sounds great and need to beat them up but wow!

Any perceptions on parallel vs series appreciated.

Tonker goes in a Bogner cube next.

Roccaforte Amps

05-06-2004, 10:27 PM

Originally posted by Steve Snider
Red Fangs and Tonker and Guv just arrived and the Fangs seem to have just what I want. Great for the clean tones. Put em in a partially open Antone 2X12 tall cab. Sounds great and need to beat them up but wow!

Any perceptions on parallel vs series appreciated.

Tonker goes in a Bogner cube next.

In series you'll get less bottom,
and a ton of midrange.
Try it, you might like it.
Doug

Steve Snider

05-06-2004, 10:53 PM

Thanks Doug!!!! Just what I wanted to hear because the Fang(initially) has less Bottom and more mids than I want in series so perhaps Parallel will be more to my liking. All my amps have plenty of mids. In series the Fang seems to lack some bottom so I will try the parallel wiring and report back tomorrow!

Thanks,

SS

Steve Snider

05-06-2004, 11:32 PM

Originally posted by Steve Snider
Thanks Doug!!!! Just what I wanted to hear because the Fang(initially) has less Bottom and more mids than I want in series so perhaps Parallel will be more to my liking. All my amps have plenty of mids. In series the Fang seems to lack some bottom so I will try the parallel wiring and report back tomorrow!

Thanks,

SS

Fangs are not gonna work for me so off they go but they do sound good when cranked up to where they should be. I just have other speakers that work better for me. Tonka and Guv up next.

SS

Roccaforte Amps

05-07-2004, 09:33 AM

Originally posted by Steve Snider
Fangs are not gonna work for me so off they go but they do sound good when cranked up to where they should be. I just have other speakers that work better for me. Tonka and Guv up next.

SS

Steve, the Tonker and Govenor are very similar
in ways, but the Tonker holds together real
well at high volume level. (Uwe likes the Tonker for the Deizels)
At the same level, the Govenor compresses
more. I love and use both speakers. Doug

Steve Snider

05-07-2004, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Steve, the Tonker and Govenor are very similar
in ways, but the Tonker holds together real
well at high volume level. (Uwe likes the Tonker for the Deizels)
At the same level, the Govenor compresses
more. I love and use both speakers. Doug

Doug,

Sounds good. I will put the Tonker in a Bogner 1X12 and punish it a bit . I bet I really like those two.

Roccaforte Amps

05-07-2004, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by Steve Snider
Doug,

Sounds good. I will put the Tonker in a Bogner 1X12 and puni
sh it a bit . I bet I really like those two.

Ben Harper has a Rocca 2 12" open back
thats loaded with Tonkers.
When I serviced his amps two weeks ago,
I ran his HG100's through this cab.
I was blown away that two speakers
open back could handle my amp.
It was amazing, and I had the amp turned
up high. Uwe had the same experience
running the Herbert on the Tonker's,
what he said;
"Finally there's a speaker that can handle
what the Herbert puts out".
Im using the Govenor's as a standard speaker
for my 4 12", and 2 12" closed cabs.
Its real hard to put a comparision on what
these speakers sound like, but they're great.
I wish I had them years ago.
The cones are real tight, so I know in time
they'll only get better.
Doug

Cap'n Crunch

05-07-2004, 12:25 PM

I put a Tonker in a Two-Rock 1x12 and it sounds great. A customer bought it to match with a Custom Reverb he got from me. Sick little rig!

Mike

Roccaforte Amps

05-07-2004, 12:28 PM

Originally posted by Cap'n Crunch
I put a Tonker in a Two-Rock 1x12 and it sounds great. A customer bought it to match with a Custom Reverb he got from me. Sick little rig!

Mike

No, we are the sick ones.
We spend all our money
buying, our time playing,
and our time talking about it!

Cool sickness eh?

Cap'n Crunch

05-07-2004, 12:29 PM

carltonh

05-07-2004, 01:57 PM

Hey guys,

A friend of mine is looking for 10s that he can load into his Fender Prosonic 2x10. The Celestion Vintage 10s or whatever they are break up way too soon, so he needs something cleaner.

I know the Weber Michigan and California 10s would work, but can anyone say anything about the new Eminence 10s, as far as how loud they can get and stay clean while sounding good?

He usually has a classic metal sound which is hard to do with an open back 2x10 if the speakers aren't up to it.

aeolian

05-07-2004, 05:40 PM

Has anyone compared the new EMI's to Celestion 65's? Are any similar? What would be the difference? The C65 is hard to come by but I love the midrange color, quickness and dynamic response. Something within the range of a G12-65 to a G12-H would work fine. Be great if it has the 99db efficiency too!

Cap'n Crunch

05-07-2004, 06:36 PM

Highly anticipated (at least by me) Two-Rock spec 65. Due any time now. I got dibs on one of the first ones. I had "real" 65's, and sold them to Joe.

Mike

Phatman

05-07-2004, 09:15 PM

carltonh...

The Kendrick 10" speakers are probably 35-40 watt speakers. They stay pretty clean and have huge bottom end for a 10" speaker. They really hold up pretty good to higher wattages too. I put my 50 watt amp to the 2x10 combo amp it they sound better with that wattage than the 20 Watts my tweed amp puts out.

Steve Snider

05-07-2004, 09:21 PM

Tonker is awesome!!!!!!!

SS

Cap'n Crunch

05-07-2004, 10:00 PM

Yeah Steve, I thought it did really well, and I've tried a bunch (of other makes and vintages) that didn't sound as good.

Mike

Roccaforte Amps

05-07-2004, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by Steve Snider
Tonker is awesome!!!!!!!

SS

Yes it is!

Turbo Gerbil

05-07-2004, 11:59 PM

I didn't see in this mondo thread, but has anyone compared Tonker vs. Swamp Thang yet? They seem pretty similar in specs, what are the differences?

nashvillerocker

05-08-2004, 06:15 AM

My 2X12 Cab has just been shipped ready for speakers I'm going to run the cab at 16 ohms.

I'm using a Naylor Duel 60.

has anyone tried (1) Tonker and (1) Gov in a 2X12 Closed back theile port cab? Which has more glass,Chime,Bell like tones and smooth with over drive tones the Gov or Tonker?

Thanks,
C.DiMella

:o

Tomo

05-08-2004, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by Cap'n Crunch
Highly anticipated (at least by me) Two-Rock spec 65. Due any time now. I got dibs on one of the first ones. I had "real" 65's, and sold them to Joe.

Mike

Mike,

I have played Two Rock Onyx(I don't know how to spell) with
a verticle 2 12 cab 65's. That was awesome tone both clean and
overdrive. This one owned by Taku Sakashta who takes care Robben's
Guitar. I told Eminence people about 65s.

,,,,,,

Mike(another),

I don't have the Copperhead, but the Ragin Cajun makes my Princeton Reverb
and Vibrolux Reverb bigger and better sound. I really like the Ragin Cajun.
My guess is the Copperhead has more brighter similar to vintage less bottom
than RC.

carltonh,

If you like british sound, you will like the Ramrod from Red Coat.
75 watts, more headroom than V10. I have 2 in closed cab. Nice tone!
I have the Weber California 12, that's nice speaker too. Clear, bright.
For metal sound, I prefer the Ramrod. I wish Eminence makes Tonker 10.

Steve,
I have both Swamp thang and Tonker, 8 ohm & 16 ohm.
Of course I hear the difference but it's hard to explain. Let's
me think about that. I love both.

Tomo

MightyGuru

05-08-2004, 09:29 AM

I just wanted to post a follow up. I put the 16 ohm Red Fang in my MAZ Sr combo 10 days ago and I have played 6 gigs. I know the speaker is still breaking in, but after only 30 hours of play I can tell I will love this speaker for some time to come.

The mids are creamy. Much more so than the V30 I replaced , which is, imho, more crunchy. The mids are right where I want them and complement the tones of the MAZ very well. The top end is sweet. Though the fang has a lot of highend available, I don't find it to be harsh. There is an edge to the sound but the creamy mids don't get left behind and seem to temper the treble a bit.

The Fang has slightly less bass response than the blues I have played (this estimation is based on memory since I don't have a blue around to a/b it with). I found that I had to notch up the bass knob to get the big warmth I an accustomed to. No biggie....one notch. The bass is round and holds together very well even under heavy playing levels. I like the Fang's bottom much more than the V30 and it seems to complement the G12H30 nicely as it isn't boomy. I was used to changing the bass eq a bit with the old setup when using an HB equipped guitar. But the fang is more balanced with all my guitars and I don't have to do anything except mess with the cut knob to dial in a hair more sparkle and chime.

I have dimed the TIM in tandem with the MAZ to see how much overdrive the Fang could take without compressing. The fang handles tons of OD and remains articulate while compressing only when the 'bucker and the dimed TIM unite under a cranked MAZ...this is more overdrive than I use and the slight compression sounds cool anyway.

Overall. the Fangs excels at rich mids, sparkly/sweet top and a balanced, round and tight bottom in my MAZ. I haven't tried the Fang with any other heads yet but I'll get around to it soon.

Thanks for all your great responses.

big mike

05-08-2004, 09:36 AM

Thanks Tomo!

JamesPeters

05-08-2004, 10:38 AM

Nice review, MightyGuru. I appreciate that.

MightyGuru

05-08-2004, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
Nice review, MightyGuru. I appreciate that.

My pleasure. Hope it helps the good folks here a little, James.

Jon Silberman

05-08-2004, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by MightyGuru
I just wanted to post a follow up. I put the 16 ohm Red Fang in my MAZ Sr combo 10 days ago and I have played 6 gigs. I know the speaker is still breaking in, but after only 30 hours of play I can tell I will love this speaker for some time to come.

The mids are creamy. Much more so than the V30 I replaced , which is, imho, more crunchy. The mids are right where I want them and complement the tones of the MAZ very well. The top end is sweet. Though the fang has a lot of highend available, I don't find it to be harsh. There is an edge to the sound but the creamy mids don't get left behind and seem to temper the treble a bit.

The Fang has slightly less bass response than the blues I have played (this estimation is based on memory since I don't have a blue around to a/b it with). I found that I had to notch up the bass knob to get the big warmth I an accustomed to. No biggie....one notch. The bass is round and holds together very well even under heavy playing levels. I like the Fang's bottom much more than the V30 and it seems to complement the G12H30 nicely as it isn't boomy. I was used to changing the bass eq a bit with the old setup when using an HB equipped guitar. But the fang is more balanced with all my guitars and I don't have to do anything except mess with the cut knob to dial in a hair more sparkle and chime.

I have dimed the TIM in tandem with the MAZ to see how much overdrive the Fang could take without compressing. The fang handles tons of OD and remains articulate while compressing only when the 'bucker and the dimed TIM unite under a cranked MAZ...this is more overdrive than I use and the slight compression sounds cool anyway.

Overall. the Fangs excels at rich mids, sparkly/sweet top and a balanced, round and tight bottom in my MAZ. I haven't tried the Fang with any other heads yet but I'll get around to it soon.

Thanks for all your great responces.

Great review, and just what I want to hear - my Red Fang is with my Traynor YGM-3 in Pete Cage's hands right now, a 2XEL84 amp known for max headroom/punch. I chose a Fang in the hopes of achieving exactly what you've described. I get the amp back (+ cap job, new screen resistors and tubes, and a added bias pot) a week from today, now I really can't wait! :D

Macaroni

05-08-2004, 04:06 PM

Hey John...

I've got a new Traynor YCV20WR (2-EL84's) and I tried the Red Fang with it as well, and it was beautiful. Virtually identical to the Celestion Alnico Blue that I'm using with the amp, which is also spectacular. The Red Fang is part of my multi cabinet wet/dry/wet setup with my Fuchs ODS. It sounds great with the Fuchs too.

I wish I had known about the YGM-3 before I bought the YCV20WR. I might have tried that one first, but I suspect, since they share the same heritage, they might be similar. It would be nice if you could get a hold of a YCV20 to see how the 2 compare with one another.

We await your review when you get your new/old baby home next week.

Ron...

Tomo

05-09-2004, 09:23 AM

Originally posted by big mike blues
Thanks Tomo!

You 're welcome, Mike.
I think you have 4 10 right?
How about put two Rajin Cajun on Bottom and
put 2 Copperhead on top.

I put the Swamp thang again. This speaker has huge bottom
warm, big sound. I also have the Screaming Eagle. I love SE's
top end, bright but very musical, no hrash at all.

Tomo

big mike

05-09-2004, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Tomo
You 're welcome, Mike.
I think you have 4 10 right?
How about put two Rajin Cajun on Bottom and
put 2 Copperhead on top.

I put the Swamp thang again. This speaker has huge bottom
warm, big sound. I also have the Screaming Eagle. I love SE's
top end, bright but very musical, no hrash at all.

Tomo

Don't have a 4x10 yet, I am planning to get one in the near future. Sounds like that might be a great mix! Mostly a blues/rock player so that would probably sound killer.

Thanks again for all the insight and help on the new Emi's.

Jeff Flowerday

05-10-2004, 11:41 AM

Doug,

How does the Big Ben handle gain? Does it ring true and fat? I just bought one to put in a Brown Pro hybrid that I've juiced some extra gain out of. Any cry problems?

I had a Cali 15" in it but it was a little too bass heavy and it really colored the break up too much. Too much Fizz...

Jeff

Roccaforte Amps

05-10-2004, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Jeff Flowerday
Doug,

How does the Big Ben handle gain? Does it ring true and fat? I just bought one to put in a Brown Pro hybrid that I've juiced some extra gain out of. Any cry problems?

I had a Cali 15" in it but it was a little too bass heavy and it really colored the break up too much. Too much Fizz...

Jeff

Big Ben is very balanced, and huge sounding.
Overdrive is real smooth, and the bass holds
together well.
Im not noticing anything I don't like.

Jeff Flowerday

05-10-2004, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Big Ben is very balanced, and huge sounding.
Overdrive is real smooth, and the bass holds
together well.
Im not noticing anything I don't like.

Thanks you sir! Exactly what I wanted to hear.

Roccaforte Amps

05-11-2004, 09:27 AM

Originally posted by Jeff Flowerday
Thanks you sir! Exactly what I wanted to hear.

Your welcome!

Jon Silberman

05-11-2004, 09:34 AM

Just opened my email from Pete Cage, my circa '74 Traynor YGM-3 is restored and ready for pickup on Saturday. Will post full details and pics then but for now wanted to say Pete says the Red Fang we put in it sounds great from the start and will only get even better as it opens up.

The YGM-3, by the way, is a fixed bias, 2XEL84, PTP amp with the usual beefy Traynor trannies. This one is open back (large cab).

Roccaforte Amps

05-11-2004, 05:26 PM

I've been beating the cr@p
out of two Govenors for
a week now, they have
loosened up some.
The tone just keeps
getting better, and better.

Very cool tones.
Thats all I have to share today.Doug

Macaroni

05-11-2004, 05:40 PM

Hi Doug...

Of all the new speakers you've tried, which ones faithfully reproduce the tones of the amps, without too much coloring of the lows/mids/highs?

What's the tonal character of the Guv's?

Thanks.

Ron...

Buckshot

05-11-2004, 05:48 PM

I'm definitely gonna try some of these new Emis! My main rig is a Naylor Duel 60 thru a Naylor slot ported 2X12 loaded w/ one old Celestion 65 & one hybrid ceramic/alnico Weber Michigan. I like a big, clear bottom end that still has some mid bite & treble chime.

I'm thinking of trying a pair of Tonkers or a Tonker & a Red Fang. How do you all think the Tonker & the Fang would work as a team?

Scumback Speakers

05-11-2004, 05:51 PM

I picked up a "Tonker" from my local supplier on spec/tryout for three weeks. At first blush, this speaker seems to have the sounds of a cross between a G12H30 and a Vintage 30. It's very efficient, and I would say that Eminence's 101 or 102 db rating is about the same as Celestion's 100db rating.

Plenty of bass, mids, and treble response, so at this point (2 hours playing it in the studio) I would say that it's got a pretty even response curve across the tonal spectrum.

No farting out on the lows, but alot of sound coming from it even in an open back combo cab. I'll try this out for another week, then get the Guvnor, and see how it compares.

I'll post my thoughts again in a week or so.

carltonh

05-11-2004, 06:37 PM

There are now several players that have the Tonker, and some (Doug) have commented that it even sounds great with I think a Fender Twin. Does it still preserve an authentic Fender sound though?

I think I'll still wait for a review of the Texas Heat, as it seems similar to the Tonker, but with more American tone roots, a little more treble bite, and some British flavor. (Plus cheaper and lighter, though only 99 db rated.)

Anyway, the speaker I want to get next will be one that can best preserve both authentic Fender and Marshall tones without being JBL - clean and plain.

Roccaforte Amps

05-11-2004, 09:56 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by carltonh
[B]There are now several players that have the Tonker, and some (Doug) have commented that it even sounds great with I think a Fender Twin. Does it still preserve an authentic Fender sound though?
(snip)

Its my own opinion, so please don't take it the wrong way.
No speaker for MI gear is going to "faithfully" reproduce
what an amp is doing without adding its own flavor,
besides, how would we know what it should be anyway?

Look everyone, try these for yourselves and see if you like
them, don't rely on anything else but your own ears.

Carl, I think the Tonker is an excellent choice for a Fender twin reverb.
I have more than one twin, the others have Altec, JBL, and CTS.
They all sound different, and the amps all sound different even
running them all on the same speakers. Nature of the beast.
For me, if the tone of any amp, guitar, speaker, tube ect....
kicks me in the butt, Im there. Im not too picky about
who made it, or what it "might" do, Im more interested
in what my ears actually hear.
I've made the mistake in the past of being too judgmental
on one try, and later found out that what wasn't right in
one rig, but was great in another.

Going by the current reviews of users that already tried
these new speakers, I think its now safe enough for everyone
to start trying them, and see what works best.

Its been a long day, so I hope this post comes off ok.
Doug

Tomo

05-11-2004, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Turbo Gerbil
I didn't see in this mondo thread, but has anyone compared Tonker vs. Swamp Thang yet? They seem pretty similar in specs, what are the differences?

Steve,

Finally I set up the Tonker and Swamp Thang side by side to check the tone.
I have two 1965 Pro Reverb, but both a little different tone just like a guitar.
So I use only one head to do this test, I mean I plug one Pro Reverb to another
Pro Reverb, i mean speakers.

Personally, I hear more interesting mids in the Tonker.(british type cone)
That's why the Tonker has more punchy tone. The Swamp Thang has
smoother mid tone. (American type cone) But overall both has really really
huge bottom and solid sound.

The major difference between Swamp Thang and the Tonker is the type
of cone. This effect the tone greatly.

Hope this will give some hints.

Tomo

Macaroni

05-11-2004, 10:13 PM

Hi Doug...

Your post is totally cool. Point taken. I thnk what many are inquiring about is some sort of sense of the tonal properties, based of course on your judgement. We all can't afford to buy so many speakers to test them, so we're begging for sonic tid bits from an experienced ear such as yours. Of course it's all subjective, but it helps and it's better than nothing. :D

Thanks.

Ron...

Roccaforte Amps

05-11-2004, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Macaroni
Hi Doug...

Your post is totally cool. Point taken. I thnk what many are inquiring about is some sort of sense of the tonal properties, based of course on your judgement. We all can't afford to buy so many speakers to test them, so we're begging for sonic tid bits from an experienced ear such as yours. Of course it's all subjective, but it helps and it's better than nothing. :D

Thanks.

Ron...

Well, the only way we ever learned how any speaker
sounded, amp, guitar ect... was to try them.
Hell, Im not rich either, it'll take me a while
to go through all their models too, but it does
give me something new to look forward too.
I like that, its the kid in me! Doug

Turbo Gerbil

05-11-2004, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by Tomo

Finally I set up the Tonker and Swamp Thang side by side to check the tone...
Tomo

Thanks, that was helpful. I might have to try a Swamp Thang or two, sounds like more my style...

ericb

05-12-2004, 06:35 AM

To whomever was asking about a Twin speaker. I'd HEAVILY reommend the Cannabis Rex for a TWIN!!!!!!! My problem is this.. I only have 1 Cannabis Rex.. It's in a cabinet already and I'm using it with many amps. I have a 1970 Twin .. I need 2 more of these and I'm basically out of room and money! Anyway, I couldn't recommend it more for a Twin.. Haven't tried the Tonkers or any others other than Red Fang... I will be getting more Cannabis Rex's... They're C12n's with a big big sound , great bottom and perfectly balanced.

ERIC

Doug S

05-12-2004, 07:26 AM

Just a quick Emi report from Dallas here, I've installed a few Big Bens in my Texaverb and Texaplex combo amps to be played around here at gigs and jams and the consensus is that they are awsome speakers. This speaker IMO can give you fabulous Fender OR British tones. I haven't sent anything it's way that it couldn't handle, perhaps due to it's high RMS rating, but I'm not a fan of speaker distortion anyway. I prefer them to a couple of nice JBL D-130s I have lying around for sure.

I've also tried the Red Fang, Tonker, and Private Jack with great results. I'm really getting a good feeling about this speaker company......

Doug Sewell
Sewell Wampus Cat Amps

JPenn

05-12-2004, 03:07 PM

Originally posted by Doug S
Just a quick Emi report from Dallas here, I've installed a few Big Bens in my Texaverb and Texaplex combo amps to be played around here at gigs and jams and the consensus is that they are awsome speakers. This speaker IMO can give you fabulous Fender OR British tones. I haven't sent anything it's way that it couldn't handle, perhaps due to it's high RMS rating, but I'm not a fan of speaker distortion anyway. I prefer them to a couple of nice JBL D-130s I have lying around for sure.

I've also tried the Red Fang, Tonker, and Private Jack with great results. I'm really getting a good feeling about this speaker company......

Doug Sewell
Sewell Wampus Cat Amps

Cool!! I might have to slap one of the Ben's in my little Delta Blues. I really dig this amp, great tones on a budget.

aeolian

05-13-2004, 12:00 AM

Originally posted by Cap'n Crunch
Highly anticipated (at least by me) Two-Rock spec 65. Due any time now. I got dibs on one of the first ones. I had "real" 65's, and sold them to Joe.

Mike

Who's making these? EMI or is Celestion takeing another stab at it?

How do you think the Tonker compared to the G12H and 65? I'm afraid of hurting the G12H in my 1x12 with my new 100W head. I'm also really glad I hung on to the real 65s. They were kind of bright with my mod but sound awesome with the factory head (check out my Revelation clip, just ignore the playing ;) )
They also sound great in a certain red Opal :D

nashvillerocker

05-13-2004, 06:58 AM

EMI is making the two rock 65 clone I wrote Joe and they will have some in June I also was thinking of getting some but my Addrock cab is tuned to V30 and Addrock has tried celetion 65 they were to muddy in the Adrrock 2x12 cab so I'm passing on these.

Later,
Chris

Roccaforte Amps

05-13-2004, 01:53 PM

I'll have some more feedback this weekend
on the Tonker, and Govenor.
Two artist customers of mine is trying these out
tomorrow.
Doug
PS, yes, Im still very satisfied. Full Mojo, bro's!

grendel4guitars

05-13-2004, 02:00 PM

I'm curious to know how the Red Fands sound in a 412 cab. Have any of you tried this?

Grendel

www.moneypennyrocks.com

grendel4guitars

05-13-2004, 02:01 PM

uhh, thats Red Fangs......sorry

Phatman

05-14-2004, 12:14 AM

For those interested in a comparison chart for the Emenence speakers.. here ya go...

Just from what I am seeing I would like to see a Governor mixed with a Tonker. Ya know maybe I get a pair of each and put them in one of my 4x12 cabs.. ?? Has anyone tried this yet ??

http://209.68.48.18/mike/tone-chart.gif

MightyGuru

05-14-2004, 12:28 AM

Thanks for the cool tone chart, PhatMan. The Tonker looks like a cool speaker and is getting lots of compliments. The RedCoats are all I could digest at the moment.

I'll go back later and check the Patriots.

Doug S

05-14-2004, 06:44 AM

I've had a Red Fang and a Private Jack in a Marshall 1936 type cabinet for the past week and love it with Fender blackface type circuits. Chimey and full sounding-- goes well with Strats and Teles. Prior to that, I coupled the Red Fang with a G23H30 Cele and thought that couldn't have been beaten.....

The Big Ben continues to impress me from top to bottom-- killer smooth overdrive with Marshally circuits but still able to do the clean thing very well.

I also had a customer smoke a Tonker in a 100 watt 1 x 12 combo last week, so they have their limits. I begged him not to dime the amp, but apparently he was gigging on about "8" and it gave up the ghost after about 30 minutes. I sent him back out with an EVM-12L.

Roccaforte Amps

05-14-2004, 09:06 AM

Originally posted by Doug S
I've had a Red Fang and a Private Jack in a Marshall 1936 type cabinet for the past week and love it with Fender blackface type circuits. Chimey and full sounding-- goes well with Strats and Teles. Prior to that, I coupled the Red Fang with a G23H30 Cele and thought that couldn't have been beaten.....

The Big Ben continues to impress me from top to bottom-- killer smooth overdrive with Marshally circuits but still able to do the clean thing very well.

I also had a customer smoke a Tonker in a 100 watt 1 x 12 combo last week, so they have their limits. I begged him not to dime the amp, but apparently he was gigging on about "8" and it gave up the ghost after about 30 minutes. I sent him back out with an EVM-12L.

Thats interesting.
I've pumped 200watts of Hiwatt
through a pair of Tonkers open back
and they handle it over and over.
Thats almost 400watts of peak power
with the amp up all the way.
They're still holding together.

cocheese

05-14-2004, 09:47 AM

I'm looking to put together a 2x12 Germino cab but I need some speakers. I'll be playing a Fender Bassman head and JTM45 style amp into the cab. But, what speakers?

Greenback
G12H30
Private Jack
Red Fang

Or a mix of them?

Any and all help would be appreciated! :D

davetcan

05-14-2004, 09:51 AM

I also had a customer smoke a Tonker in a 100 watt 1 x 12 combo last week, so they have their limits. I begged him not to dime the amp, but apparently he was gigging on about "8" and it gave up the ghost after about 30 minutes. I sent him back out with an EVM-12L.

That is interesting. The Tonkers are rated @ 150Wrms and 300W peak. I've got two in my 1936 cab also and love them. I've got an Avatar cab coming next week and I'll be interested in hearing what difference tha cab makes. 1936 is closed back, Avatar is open.

Dave

Tomo

05-14-2004, 11:35 AM

Originally posted by MightyGuru
Thanks for the cool tone chart, PhatMan. The Tonker looks like a cool speaker and is getting lots of compliments. The RedCoats are all I could digest at the moment.

I'll go back later and check the Patriots.

The Patriots are really great tone too.
I like Screaming Eagle 75 watts and Swamp Thang 150 watts
Maybe Texas Heat 150 watts is cool too.

Tomo

Doug S

05-14-2004, 01:58 PM

Just to clarify, the amp that killed the Tonker puts out 120 watts RMS and I'd say he was pumping over 200 watts through that one speaker with a Tom Anderson Tele. He had murdered a Classic Lead 80 with that same amp the week before....

mrmojorisin

05-14-2004, 09:38 PM

Guys, I have 4 unused 8 ohm Red Fangs for sale. Let me know if any interest.

Carl

Scumback Speakers

05-15-2004, 06:37 AM

Originally posted by Doug S
Just to clarify, the amp that killed the Tonker puts out 120 watts RMS and I'd say he was pumping over 200 watts through that one speaker with a Tom Anderson Tele. He had murdered a Classic Lead 80 with that same amp the week before....
Time to turn to an extension cab to divide the power methinks... two speakers in two gigs... that's no longer a coincidence, huh? :D

Roccaforte Amps

05-17-2004, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by davetcan
That is interesting. The Tonkers are rated @ 150Wrms and 300W peak. I've got two in my 1936 cab also and love them. I've got an Avatar cab coming next week and I'll be interested in hearing what difference tha cab makes. 1936 is closed back, Avatar is open.

Dave

The open back cab I just built
for Ben Harper has Tonkers in it.
Those speakers really breath open back,
they love power. Doug

JamesPeters

05-17-2004, 10:59 PM

I got a Tonker on the way. I'm going to try it by itself first, then pair it up with another speaker in a 2x12 (I'm making myself a few different 2x12s so I can have them on hand for demoing the amps more effectively).

I'll let you all know if Doug has lost his marbles about this speaker or not. :p

davetcan

05-18-2004, 06:50 AM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
I got a Tonker on the way. I'm going to try it by itself first, then pair it up with another speaker in a 2x12 (I'm making myself a few different 2x12s so I can have them on hand for demoing the amps more effectively).

I'll let you all know if Doug has lost his marbles about this speaker or not. :p

I'm betting he hasn't :) I find them to have a much smoother top end than the G12T-75's even in the 1936 cab which is just what I was looking for. I think, and hope, that they'll only get better in the open backed Avatar that's on it's way, and that will allow me to sell the Marshall cab complete and recover most of my cost :D

Dave

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 09:16 AM

Cap'n Crunch

05-18-2004, 09:39 AM

Doug's right about Tonker. And its power handling capability makes it great for 1x12 applications. Killa.

Mike

JamesPeters

05-18-2004, 11:04 AM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
I don't play with marbles son:cool:

Whatever you say, dad. :cool: :D

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 01:07 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
Whatever you say, dad. :cool: :D

You better watch it, I know some ork's!:dude

JamesPeters

05-18-2004, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
You better watch it, I know some ork's!:dude

Dude, you are an orc. :D

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
Dude, you are an orc. :D

That's gonna be real expensive Hobbit!

big mike

05-18-2004, 07:18 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
That's gonna be real expensive Hobbit!

Is this a Bizarre Mork from Orc reference ( nanoo nanoo) or a LOTR reference?

Hey, wonder what Nanoo Nanoo would sound like through a new Eminence.

Hows that for bringing the topic back around on track:D

And it could just be me, I can't see Doug playing with marbles.

Shooting craps for tubes maybe...........

JamesPeters

05-18-2004, 07:49 PM

LOTR.

Since I'm about 1" shorter than he is, he calls me a hobbit.

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 07:50 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues
Is this a Bizarre Mork from Orc reference ( nanoo nanoo) or a LOTR reference?

Hey, wonder what Nanoo Nanoo would sound like through a new Eminence.

Hows that for bringing the topic back around on track:D

And it could just be me, I can't see Doug playing with marbles.

Shooting craps for tubes maybe...........

Ork's from LOTR, I keep teasing James that he's a Hobbit.
I have more tubes than I'll ever need. No crap shooting.
BTW, when Ork's are present, my tubes glow blue!
Doug

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 07:51 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
LOTR.

Since I'm about 1" shorter than he is, he calls me a hobbit.

One inch, huh?
Oh, that's Hobbit inches = 1ft American LOL!

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 07:53 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
LOTR.

Since I'm about 1" shorter than he is, he calls me a hobbit.

James, post the picture of you and me together
from when you came over, 1" my a$$!:dude

big mike

05-18-2004, 07:53 PM

Yeah I knew it was LOTR, I just couldn't not use the Nanoo Nanoo reference.

you guys have had me in stitches today on this one.

SO would Frodo have a Stonehenge?

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 07:55 PM

Originally posted by big mike blues
Yeah I knew it was LOTR, I just couldn't not use the Nanoo Nanoo reference.

you guys have had me in stitches today on this one.

SO would Frodo have a Stonehenge?

No, that would be Spinal Tap, 18" Stonehenge.

big mike

05-18-2004, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
No, that would be Spinal Tap, 18" Stonehenge. :D :D :D

JamesPeters

05-18-2004, 08:49 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
James, post the picture of you and me together
from when you came over, 1" my a$$!:dude

Okey dokey. Here you go:

http://members.shaw.ca/jamespeters/gandalf_frodo.jpg

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
Okey dokey. Here you go:

http://members.shaw.ca/jamespeters/gandalf_frodo.jpg

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!
Come on James, remember the phone books you were standing on? LOL
You obviously photoshopped that pic, but thats ok, I still love you anyway:)>
Doug
PS, tell K.B. I said Hi, I was thinking about you guys
while eating Pasta Sunday. I'll make it to Canada
one of these days.

JamesPeters

05-18-2004, 10:01 PM

Standing on phone books? And here I thought weed was being legalized in Canada...turns out it must be California. :)

No, I didn't photoshop that except to crop it (the original pic was like 2MB or something). I probably did stand a bit closer to the camera though, because I know you are a bit taller than I am. Yep, look at the picture--I'm standing sideways and also a little closer to the camera.

Anyway, you were wearing pumps, so you should talk. :cool:

Roccaforte Amps

05-18-2004, 10:06 PM

Originally posted by JamesPeters
Standing on phone books? And here I thought weed was being legalized in Canada...turns out it must be California. :)

No, I didn't photoshop that except to crop it (the original pic was like 2MB or something). I probably did stand a bit closer to the camera though, because I know you are a bit taller than I am. Yep, look at the picture--I'm standing sideways and also a little closer to the camera.

Anyway, you were wearing pumps, so you should talk. :cool:

SNAP, that was a good one!

I hear the pot is better here,
but I don't need it.
I get high on life now, its real easy, really.

Phatman

05-18-2004, 10:44 PM

So anyone know and Eminence dealer in the SF Bay Area or close to Californication ???

Wakarusa

05-18-2004, 10:48 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
James, post the picture of you and me together
from when you came over, 1" my a$$!

So Doug, if you get to call him Hobbit for the 1" difference, what do I get to call you? :)

(knew I shoulda brought a camera along...)

JamesPeters

05-19-2004, 01:30 AM

Doug's probably a few inches taller than I am, actually. I'm 5'7".

Doug sed:
I hear the pot is better here,
but I don't need it.
I get high on life now, its real easy, really.

"Life"...is that some new designer drug? ;)

Tomo

05-19-2004, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by Phatman
So anyone know and Eminence dealer in the SF Bay Area or close to Californication ???

http://www.eminence.com/

Genuine Eminence Dealer in California
(alphabetically by city with distributors listed first)

http://editweb.iglou.com/eminence/eminence/pages/support/inquiry/usca.htm

Try these.

Tomo

Roccaforte Amps

05-19-2004, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by Wakarusa Amp
So Doug, if you get to call him Hobbit for the 1" difference, what do I get to call you? :)

(knew I shoulda brought a camera along...)

Seeing how you're about 3ft taller, Im not sure?
What were those big trees called in LTR? LOL

No joke people, Todd is one of the tallest people
I've ever met.

BTW, everyone say Hi to Todd. He's an up and comming
amp builder, he can tell you better about what he does.
Real nice guy, I took him out for pizza recently.
Doug

nashvillerocker

05-19-2004, 09:58 AM

Hi Tod,

Yo Tod I hope Doug took you out for a N.Y. Pizza and not a Cal. Pineapple pizza. Nothing better than a N.Y. pie with extra cheese and you fav. toppings and pitcher of beer. You have you carbs for the day and will be able to play all night with your fav. amp and Gtr.

I wish you good luck with your amps,

C.DiMella :dude

David B

05-19-2004, 11:16 AM

We just took shipment of a bunch more of the Eminence speakers (already auditioned the Tonker, Red Fang, Copperhead and Ramrod).

I thought it was pretty funny that a speaker called "Cannabis Rex" would not be doped! I guess it already had enough dope without adding any:D

Roccaforte Amps

05-19-2004, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by nashvillerocker
Hi Tod,

Yo Tod I hope Doug took you out for a N.Y. Pizza and not a Cal. Pineapple pizza. Nothing better than a N.Y. pie with extra cheese and you fav. toppings and pitcher of beer. You have you carbs for the day and will be able to play all night with your fav. amp and Gtr.

I wish you good luck with your amps,

C.DiMella :dude

I took him to Giavanis, its Italian pizza, no pineapple.
Doug
PS, will you please take me off your spam list?

Wakarusa

05-19-2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
I took him to Giavanis, its Italian pizza, no pineapple.

Straight pepperoni pie and Peroni. Good too. Didn't see a pineapple anywhere near the place. Next time we're doin' steak tho' :AOK

Roccaforte Amps

05-19-2004, 02:22 PM

Originally posted by Wakarusa Amp
Straight pepperoni pie and Peroni. Good too. Didn't see a pineapple anywhere near the place. Next time we're doin' steak tho' :AOK

The steak house would be "Northwoods inn",
best place around.
Sawdust floor, peanuts for appetizers,
and you get to throw the shells on the floor.
The steak kicks ass. Doug

Tomo

05-19-2004, 02:43 PM

Aboptv will put my session up online on aboptv.com on May 19th thru 24th.
You'll hear my SRV with LF pickups
and Eminence's new series speaker the Tonker.
Enjoy watching the performance ! You can hear the Tonker.

dig real music television: http://aboptv.com

Tomo

big mike

05-19-2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
The steak house would be "Northwoods inn",
best place around.
Sawdust floor, peanuts for appetizers,
and you get to throw the shells on the floor.
The steak kicks ass. Doug

Oh Yeah!!! Love that place!!!

big mike

05-19-2004, 02:58 PM

Originally posted by David B
We just took shipment of a bunch more of the Eminence speakers (already auditioned the Tonker, Red Fang, Copperhead and Ramrod).

I thought it was pretty funny that a speaker called "Cannabis Rex" would not be doped! I guess it already had enough dope without adding any:D

Can you give me some low down on the copperhead and ram rod?

David B

05-19-2004, 03:34 PM

The Copperhead and Ramrod are both excellent with lots of power handling as a bonus.

The Copperhead has more presence and the best balance I have heard in a 10", the Ramrod is thicker and gutsy with just enough top end to "get it right". I like both better than any of my Jenson clones that we have at the shop. The Copperhead and Ramrod also have a greater threshold before speaker breakup than my Jenson clones, so your amp needs to provide a refined breakup and not be asking for "help" from the speaker...they deliver a fairly accurate rendering of your amps overdrive without adding tones of texture.

We are going to spend some time tomorrow listening to a 2 ramrod 2 copperhead (total 4x10") setup in our new Barber cabinet line. In the end i will most likely replace th speakers in my Super Reverb as well with the winning combo.

Either way you can't really lose with these speakers.

Ramrod= thick/deep and punchy 10" with a little less than normal detail, but still plenty enough for balance...a touch of mids and presence added does the trick from any competent amp.

Copperhead= deadly balanced 10" with great emphasis on the strat 2&4 position (not usually my faves) and lots of "up front" presence without harshness...again plenty of headroom.

Both handle OD pedals very well.

David Barber
www.barberelectronics.com

big mike

05-19-2004, 03:43 PM

Originally posted by David B
The Copperhead and Ramrod are both excellent with lots of power handling as a bonus.

The Copperhead has more presence and the best balance I have heard in a 10", the Ramrod is thicker and gutsy with just enough top end to "get it right". I like both better than any of my Jenson clones that we have at the shop. The Copperhead and Ramrod also have a greater threshold before speaker breakup than my Jenson clones, so your amp needs to provide a refined breakup and not be asking for "help" from the speaker...they deliver a fairly accurate rendering of your amps overdrive without adding tones of texture.

We are going to spend some time tomorrow listening to a 2 ramrod 2 copperhead (total 4x10") setup in our new Barber cabinet line. In the end i will most likely replace th speakers in my Super Reverb as well with the winning combo.

Either way you can't really lose with these speakers.

Ramrod= thick/deep and punchy 10" with a little less than normal detail, but still plenty enough for balance...a touch of mids and presence added does the trick from any competent amp.

Copperhead= deadly balanced 10" with great emphasis on the strat 2&4 position (not usually my faves) and lots of "up front" presence without harshness...again plenty of headroom.

Both handle OD pedals very well.

David Barber
www.barberelectronics.com

Thanks! SOunds like 2 of each would be a great mix in a 4x10 cab!