Best flamenco/classical guitar builder... [Archive]

markom89

01-22-2008, 09:18 AM

Thor

01-22-2008, 09:19 AM

Marko,

Might get more hits in the Acoustic area of TGP.

Happy hunting,

Edward

reentune

01-22-2008, 09:22 AM

Chris Carrington
Kenny Hill

Research acousticguitarforum.com, dreamguitars.com, and destroyallguitars.com

daddyo

01-22-2008, 09:36 AM

Marko
Is your last name Bronfman? You will end up with more gear than Matte if your not careful :D

ChazMania

01-22-2008, 09:42 AM

Try Delgado guitars. One guy handmaking everything. He is in Nashville.
www.delgadoguitars.com It's not a great website but he is an amazing 3rd generation luthier and a honestly a good friend of mine. I'm saving scratch for him to make me a similar guitar to what you are describing.

markom89

01-22-2008, 09:50 AM

Thanks for the info so far, guys! I'm looking into them all as I type this...

Ed, good idea, but the acoustic area seems to move *alot* more slower, and I've gotten some good info thus far!

Anyone heard of Frank Tate guitars? He's out in Dublin, but his stuff looks killer.

Unburst

01-22-2008, 10:51 AM

marko, my advice is forget the budget and "who makes good classicals" and go out and play a bunch.
You might be surprised at what you end up liking.

$4k is a little shy of a luthier built guitar so you are talking factory made and those are a crap shoot, imo.

Bryan T

01-22-2008, 11:10 AM

I'm in the market for a high quality classical & flamenco guitar, and I wanted to know if there's anyone in specific I should look into, if I'm looking to spend about $4k. I need the guitar to be able to do both classical and flamenco, and I'd prefer a cutaway for uper fret access. It'd also be cool if I could use the guitar for some jazz style stuff. Django-Jazz, in specific. You can also post pictures of the guitars here. Thanks in advance for any help. Cheers.

Marko M.

Classical, flamenco, and gypsy jazz instruments are all constructed differently. They have different tonal objectives and the gypsy jazz instruments use a different type of string than the classicals and flamencos. You can certainly play the music on any of the instruments, but you won't find one instrument that does all things the 'best.'

For your $4K you could get one of each type of guitar and see which of the instruments speak to you the most. Kenny Hill imports some great classicals and flamencos from China. Dell Arte imports some great Sel-Mac style guitars. I've owned a Hill designed guitar that was made in Mexico that was a lot of fun, as well as a great Dell Arte. I learned a lot about classical and GJ music and then moved onto other things. All told, I probably lost $200 on each guitar when I sold them after a few years of use. A bargain.

Bryan

57tele

01-22-2008, 11:13 AM

Classical, flamenco, and gypsy jazz instruments are all constructed differently. They have different tonal objectives and the gypsy jazz instruments use a different type of string than the classicals and flamencos. You can certainly play the music on any of the instruments, but you won't find one instrument that does all things the 'best.'

Bryan

What he said. These are all very different instruments, at least if you're trying to be authentic to the tradition. Even the Flamenco and classicals, which both use nylon strings, are built very differently and sound extremely different.

mgrier1

01-22-2008, 11:14 AM

Classical, flamenco, and gypsy jazz instruments are all constructed differently. They have different tonal objectives and the gypsy jazz instruments use a different type of string than the classicals and flamencos. You can certainly play the music on any of the instruments, but you won't find one instrument that does all things the 'best.'

Bryan

+1

You won't find a do it all instrument (much like electrics, yes?) Traditional Flamenco guitars tend to utilize Cypress wood for back and sides. Classicals use Rosewood (among other woods).

The action and setup is also very different.

Best,

Mike

57paf

01-22-2008, 03:57 PM

Perhaps a flamenca negra, which uses flamenco style construction with classical style materials, could cover both areas. I won't hazard a guess as to your personal likes and dislikes, however.

go7

01-22-2008, 06:20 PM

Renato Bellucci www.mangore.com. in Argentina. Amazing guitars and great prices.Does custom work.Good Luck!

markom89

01-22-2008, 06:43 PM

KRosser

01-22-2008, 08:20 PM

FYI, I'm well aware that guitars for classical, flamenco and jazz are constructed using different methods, and I said I'm looking one that could do both flamenco and classical mainly, and that it would be "nice" if it did jazz. I'm not looking for a guitar to "do it all"... If there was someone who could make me a guitar with the supported top of a flamenco guitar and sound of a flamenco/classical guitar (in between) with other classical features and a cutaway, I'd be happy :) Jazz isn't a must...

A brighter sounding spruce top might get you there then. Also, for flamenco stuff use a capo, even if at the first fret and you tune down so you're still in standard tuning. It gives the strings a percussive snappy quality essential to that idiom - many flamenco guys you see will capo up to the 3rd fret even on a dedicated flamenco guitar.

I've done that with a cedar-topped classical for faking it through a session and if you play the right stuff (rasgueados, baby!) it's pretty convincing.

enr1co

01-23-2008, 11:29 PM

Took a flamenco class many years ago and when shopping for a real flamenco guitar my instructor suggested I
check out these Montalvos down in Berkeley-
http://www.berkeleymusic.com/flamenco.html

Never got around to buying one but after reading your thread and revisiting this site, you've sparked my interest again- Thank you!

Lots of sound clips on the site- check out the clips from Roberto Granados- 8 yrs old and a phenomenol player already!

e

markom89

01-23-2008, 11:31 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions thus far, guys!
I've been very interested in hearing more about the Frank Tate guitars that Rodrigo y Gabriela use... anyone own one of these or have any experience with them?

Ian Anderson

01-24-2008, 02:10 AM

Jose Oribe

BluePowder

01-24-2008, 02:47 AM

Esteban! :D

Just kidding, you might want to check out the Handmade Classicals made by Yamaha, I had one when I was learning classical as a younger guitarist, amazing response from that instrument.

garyrogue

01-24-2008, 09:49 AM

As mentioned both types are different. I had a reference to various classical luithers but can't find it, just like electrics, some can have 5-6 yrs or more wait list. http://www.guitarsalon.com/ is a shop with a pretty good selection turn over, pricy, but by browsing you may find something of get more knowledgable about what you need.

2112

01-24-2008, 04:39 PM

I would say to call David - assuming he is still there - at GSI http://www.guitarsalon.com/ and let him know what you are seeking. I bought a lot of guitars through him and always trusted his judgement. He will play them for you over the phone , if you ask real nice ;). They also will send a guitar for a trial period (48 hrs?) with a credit card on file. Last but not least they did offer a trade-in for anything you bought from them - 20% less what you paid for the guitar - towards a different one. This can get expensive but may beat having to sell it yourself.

The above info may not apply now - it's been a while - but maybe it will help you.

One other place to try would be Zavaletas -http://www.zavaletas-guitarras.com/files/inventory.htm .

A Flamenca Negra may be your best bet for a combo of what you are looking for as well. I would also say to try GV Rubio for a very good mid-price guitar. I really think for the price he makes some of the best around http://www.guitarsbygvr.com/ . Sold my Dominique Field and not the Rubio - may have been dumb looking back but that's life :jo. My Tezanos-Perez "Maestro" Cedar/BR keeps me happy now.

Good Luck.

http://LAG.smugmug.com/photos/246953649-X3.jpg

Alter

01-24-2008, 04:54 PM

a guitar that can do both flamenco and classical is the new trend in spain (becoming more and more popular in flamenco players). the best guitar builders are considered to be manuel reyes and hermanos conte, but they have an unbelievable waiting list. you can get a used instrument however if you get lucky. if i was to spend 4k on a flamenco guitar i would combine it with a trip to spain, because the difference in value when buying directly from the makers there is bigger then what the trip (vacation) will cost you.

a friend just brought a hermanos conte from spain, and he played it for me, ..aaaaaaahhhh...... :p :p :p :drool (but i think it cost him more than 4k)

markom89

01-24-2008, 05:11 PM

Alter, thanks for the advice... if it's really that big of a price difference when going direct w/ the guys in Spain, I'd be willing to make the trip over, seeing as I'll be in Europe for over a month this summer all around. Can I just walk into the shop there or what? Do these big name, Spanish luthiers have websites?

riffmeister

01-26-2008, 07:19 PM

Aaron Green builds a great guitar with both classical and flamenco flavorings in one:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/riffmeister_photos/06Green.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o209/riffmeister_photos/06%20Aaron%20Green/greenbacksmall.jpg

7String Thing

01-26-2008, 10:50 PM

4k wont get you much in that league. you could get a mid grade classical, but ive got teachers with 30k guitars. If your good enough, try getting an endorsement. If you just play for fun, id just get a ramerez. They arent that bad, or call up holst.

markom89

01-27-2008, 12:11 AM

wow. $4k in the electric guitar market (and even acoustic to some extent) can get you a *killer* guitar (although there are electrics for $30k, too-and even more :)). I know there's no point in saying that here, though, since we are talking about classical & flamenco guitars, but still. $30k is nuts, but I could see "pros" spending that much on their weapon of choice (or one of several weapons of choice). The whole flamenco/classical thing is more "for fun" for me, and I'm learning it mainly just to make my mom happy, as shes always been into that stuff (aww). I love that style of music, though, so I could see myself getting into it alot more seriously if I had an actual dedicated flamenco/classical guitar- ever try playing flamenco on a steel string acoustic? I'd say I'm willing to go to $5k max, but as others have said in this thread, it's not all about setting a financial limit. I'm gonna' start going out and playing some flamecno/classical guitars, and see what I like/dislike. This summer I'll be in Europe (as I already mentioned), so I might swing by Spain and pay a visit to some of the luthiers, and try some stuff out. I've got a fmaily friend in Madrid or Barcelona (can't remeber which one, ATM), so it'd all work out. Anyways, please do keep the recommendations coming, I'm looking into all the names listed, and like very much what I'm seeing so far. Thanks again, guys. Cheers.

marko m.

7String Thing

01-27-2008, 07:58 AM

well im sure your mom wont care if the guitar is 4k or 30k, and yeah they are professional players.

Id say your best bet is Holst.

Unburst

01-27-2008, 06:18 PM

A $4k Ramirez won't even be made by Ramirez.

Marko, if you're serious abut buying a guitar in Spain make a trip down to Seville.

markom89

01-27-2008, 07:03 PM

go7

01-27-2008, 10:40 PM

My Bellucci is exactly as advertised. 3 years since purchase. My experience was totally opposite. Wonderful value. Great transaction. Although after that guys experience it might be difficult to order. Good Luck!

Unburst

01-28-2008, 10:54 AM

Martin, I'm serious about it, so I'm probably gonna' do it while I'm out visitng that family friend in Barcelona/Madrid this summer. The thing that I'm curious about is this: lets say I do find a luthier that I really like, and that I can get the guitar at a "good" price. What happens next? Do they have the guitar ready in a few days, do I give them my info, and they ship it to me when it's done, etc...

To be honest with you Marko, I think you'd be crazy to spend that much on a classical/flamenco unless you are really serious about pursuing that kind of music.

My $800 Alvarez plays great, intonates great and sounds plenty good enough.
Listen:
http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6065006

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6073437

riffmeister

01-28-2008, 07:40 PM

Martin, I'm serious about it, so I'm probably gonna' do it while I'm out visitng that family friend in Barcelona/Madrid this summer....

The dollar is weak against the Euro, you will have to pay duty when you bring it back to the US. Personally, I'd buy a guitar here in the States, there are a bootload of great luthiers in this country.

markom89

01-28-2008, 08:00 PM

I don't live in the states...

riffmeister

01-28-2008, 08:21 PM

Hmmmm, I was trying to figure out where T-Dot was.....

Well there you go, have fun in Spain! :)

markom89

01-28-2008, 08:25 PM

haha, it's Toronto... Toronto, Ontario... Toronto, Ontario, Canada. ;)

Martin, I am quite serious about learning that style and dedicating myself to that style for the next while. Hence why I'd go for such a "high calibre" instrument.

markom89

01-29-2008, 09:03 AM

Unburst

01-29-2008, 10:46 AM

DT, do you have any specific guitars in mind, and futhermore, any specific luthier in mind who would do some "custom tweaking" to the sub-$1k instrument? I actually wouldn't mind going this route if I knew who to turn to...

Marko, find an Alvarez dealer near you and try a CY-118.

My needed only a little sanding to the bridge saddle to be about perfect in terms of playability.

shallbe

01-29-2008, 11:11 AM

I have an Alvarez Yairi I bought in 1983 that sounds truly amazing. I've tried other guitars that are much more expensive, and they do not sound like this one---so look around, and don't immediately write them off. The last time I did some studio work on a film, the studio owner had a bunch of expensive acoustics in the room. My Alvarez was the one that made it to tape.

George Adelson

01-29-2008, 11:19 AM

Marko, I would take a look at an Alvarez/ Yairi CY128 (as used by Steve Hackett) easily found used for under a grand. Or, check out the Alhambra 9P CW. Alhambra builds THE 2CWE and 4CWE (in addition to all the student models)for Ramirez and the 9P CW is the same guitar as the 4CWE. All solid woods, Fishman Prefix, great intonation and it's about 2 grand less. Only difference, it doesn't say Ramirez. I picked one up used for 900 from GC. when they were selling a lot of stuff on ebay. I run it through an AER Compact 60 for all types of gigs (playing classical at weddings, bossa nova/ latin jazz gigs) and it sounds great. New, I think they go for about 1600 or 1700 USD. Not totally sure. I was going to buy a new one from www.12fret.com (http://www.12fret.com) in Toronto as they had the best deal on a new one. I would also check out the offerings from Kenny Hill. Pretty good bang for the buck as well.

riker4208

01-29-2008, 11:37 AM

Unburst

01-29-2008, 12:02 PM

Some voices of reason!!! Listen to how good Martin sounds on those clips....inspiring!!! There is a man who should now consider an upgrade to a 4k instrument, but I'll bet he is a savvy man and understands how to get most out of his Alvarez. Hey I wasn't even looking, but I'm going to take Martin up on his advise and look into a Alvarez Cy118.

thanks.

Thanks.

I just recently got that guitar I tried everything I could find, including some in the $4k range and that was the best sounding guitar I played.

JazzHessian

01-29-2008, 12:21 PM

I stumbled upon the website for Michael Dunn Guitars (http://www.michaeldunnguitars.com/) one day... very impressive stuff.

Urkoman

02-01-2008, 05:45 AM

I´d suggest a trip to southern Spain (to Granada maybe), and try them in the builder´s shops (i know it´s difficult being in the US).
A very nice price/quality brand is Alhambra guitars, they offer both classical and flamenco guitars.

Arc Angel

02-01-2008, 02:29 PM

A flamenco instrument is different in tonality from a classical instrument. Try a Flamenco Negra (Rosewood back and sides) especially if built according to the specifications of a Marcello Barbero (or his protege Archangel Fernandes).

You might consider Andalusian Guitars. Paco de Lucia was a mentor and supporter of the brand. The are modeled after the guitars of Domingo Esteso, Santos Hernandez, and Marcelo Barbero, but have some interesting variations (ultra thin bridge, spacing). Very light and great tonality. The rosewood b/s Barberos are suitable for what you are after.

Check out the website for more information.

http://www.andalusianguitars.com

Here's a pic of Paco holding one (the pictures from his 2006-7 World Tour featured him with his AG prototypes).

http://andalusianguitars.com/about/history/files/page16_1.jpg

stan p

02-01-2008, 08:31 PM

I would stongly suggest contacting Michael Dunn and ask for a custom build. He is known for his SelMac ad Archtop designs, but his wisdom extends far beyond the general standards. His guitars are very versitile and may fit your $ requirements. He built some Mac style guitars that can be strung with nylon and fingerpicked.
If you are finger style player, I suggest finding a used guitar by William Laskin. There also archtops designed for nylon ... maybe worth checking out. I have a SElMac copy and a old Larriee Classical. The Larivee can do Jazz guitar impersonation very well ... flamenco ... kinda ... but it is a stretch:)

stan p

02-01-2008, 08:41 PM

Or this - Eimers Finesse from Europe!
http://www.eimers-guitars.nl/EG-Finesse.jpg

It is designed to be a cross-over instrument and may be very close to what you are looking for. The prices is 2.5-2.6 K euro.

alanbass1

02-01-2008, 09:02 PM

+1

You won't find a do it all instrument (much like electrics, yes?) Traditional Flamenco guitars tend to utilize Cypress wood for back and sides. Classicals use Rosewood (among other woods).

The action and setup is also very different.

Best,

Mike

More importantly Flamenco guitars are constructed to be more percussive with instant attack and sharper decay unlike the smoother and more resonant classical guitars - more down to bracing and thickness of top/back/sides (rosewood flamenco's - negro - are common and maple has been used by many top classical guitar makers - Torres being of note). A top 'concert' classical guitar will set you back over $10k although pro quality Flamenco guitars can be got for $5k new.

reentune

02-01-2008, 09:04 PM

David Webber in Vancouver.

http://www.webberguitars.com/catalog.html

Check out his Classic model toward the bottom of the page.

Makes a helluva steel-string, too. And I consider his new prices ($2.8K/$3.1K with cutaway) to be extremely low for what you get.

You can occasionally find them used at acousticguitarforum.com.

stan p

02-01-2008, 09:29 PM

More importantly Flamenco guitars are constructed to be more percussive with instant attack and sharper decay unlike the smoother and more resonant classical guitars - more down to bracing and thickness of top/back/sides (rosewood flamenco's - negro - are common and maple has been used by many top classical guitar makers - Torres being of note). A top 'concert' classical guitar will set you back over $10k although pro quality Flamenco guitars can be got for $5k new.

But SelMac can get close to the flamenco tone, esoecially if it is a Dunn guitar. Many people are using cross-ver instruments these days or amplified accoustics. Let's ask another quetion ... is the instrument to be played in auditorium / studio or duo/tro/band? For life playing the value of Godin is hard to beat. 4K can get you guitar, amp and a nice pogrammable EQ :)

markom89

04-11-2008, 05:37 PM

Bump!
I think I might be going to Spain this summer to visit a family friend who's in Madrid, so I'd like to get a REAL nice flamenco of some sort while there from a well known respected builder. I've been learning more and more lately from my teacher on his guitar, and would really like to continue on with it. I just love flamenco music. Anyways, could you guys please provide me with some well known builders in Spain?

markom89

04-11-2008, 05:44 PM

Conde Hermanos seem to be among the best being built right now...

Frankee

04-11-2008, 05:52 PM

Spain is loaded with luthiers..
My mom is from Spain and I was dragged to Flamenco lessons for years :bkw

Many little shops along the big boulevards and back alleys in Madrid and in Catalan country. (Barca) I would recommend going to Toledo though. There seems to be an emphasis on local arts & crafts there. It's not as bustling as the two big cities above, and you'll probably get a little more "face time" with the builder than in Madrid or Barca. Don't forget to enjoy the sights and senoritas though...