How to go DI ?

[Mitch T]

I'm in a band where I do mostly backing vocals, synth and acoustic guitar and just bits of electric guitar. Two things: when I do go electric, I need specific sounds, so I assembled a small but efficient pedalboard and normally I use a head an 1x12 cab.
But then.... we went in-ear. It comes down to my NOT needing a nice amp anymore. So I'm down to this: I still want to use my small pedalboard but would love to use some kind of pre amp with cab sim or DI so I can plug in without an amp. Any ideas ?
Relatively low cost, been investing a lot these days...

[Guitar Josh]

http://righteoustones.com/jack.html

[Mitch T]

Wow, never heard of that one before ! Very cool, very affordable. I'm going to check out all the clips right away! Thanks !

[dk_ace]

The Tech 21 Sansamp pedals are the best I've found for this situation (barring the Axe-FX, but that is a completely different animal). I used the Tri AC that way for DI gigs for years without a problem. The new character series that they have coming out is on my list of gear to buy this year as well. They make great sounding gear that is really worth checking out in a situation like yours.

I don't know your budget, but if it is really small you can also use the mixer out on the bad monkey for this. The amp emulation isn't really strong, but it is enough to do the job. I would take the Tech 21 stuff anyday over the monkey, but the BM works in a pinch.

You also might consider the V Stack pedals. A lot of people have had good experiences with those, but I haven't used them personally.

D

[Mitch T]

I'm not sure about the budget yet, like I said... I've already invested a lot already in this band. Mad e a good deal of money as well, but still...
I had no idea the Bad Monkey had a mixer out. Is is still clean then, or always with a hint of drive ?
Forgot about the V Stacks, can those be used clean as well?
Our bass player recorded with the SansAmp stuff, it absolutely sounded great; worth the price, but a bit expensive for me right now.
Thanks for your input guys !

[freak4liferu]

Palmer makes some great boxes for this.

If you are into computer things, Amplitude v2.0 is great, you can choose a ton of amps, and cabs, and even the type of mics you want to use, and where the mic would be place on the cab.. i use this for on the go type stuff...

[dk_ace]

If you can't do the sansamp (these come up pretty affordable on the used market BTW), then the Palmer gear is definately out of reach. The Monkey's mixer out is clean with a mild Fender simulation. It isn't a really strongly voiced emulation IMO, but it does the job. These are cheap and plentiful, so borrow one or grab one with a return policy and try it out.

D

[Mitch T]

Researching already ;) The Sansamp GT2's are priced pretty okay secondhand and they do sound great...
I really should find a buddy with a Bad Monkey, but most of my buddies liek better quality stuff, like I do myself :messedup

Anyway, the Righteous Tones Jack looks very tempting with it's balanced out, but I hate not finding any reviews.
Any direct experience from users over here ?

[mcdes]

the strobostomp tuner pedal has a built in di out? maybe that will do, i wouldnt know how it sounds tho.

[dorfmeister]

Damage Control Womanizer

I have one and it is a good tube pre-amp with speaker emulation.

Not that cheap, though.

http://damagecontrolusa.com/pedals_ind.php?pedal=1

[Tbone135]

I've used a Behringer DI with cab sims ( about 30 bucks) coming out of the external speaker out of my DRRI and it sounds pretty good. If you want to hear them, I happen to have 2 quick MP3s of my DRRI mic'd with an SM 57 and then with the Behringer DI. They sound pretty similar to me.

[willyredeemed]

I have an Aphex Punch Factory that has a DI output...would I be able to use that to send to the mixer? what about my pedals, how would that work...do i no use my amp (fender deville) and run into and out of the punch factory?

[orogeny]

The ART tube MP is now 30 bucks at MF.

I've used it live as a direct box for years (in a rack setup).

AWESOME deal at this price. They're so cheap now. . . I'll never be able to sell my rack unit. . . .

If you buy one and don't like it. . . sell it to me. I'm dead serious. I can always use another one of these.

[orogeny]

for the record, the sansamp is outstanding . . .

[willyredeemed]

The ART tube MP is now 30 bucks at MF.

I've used it live as a direct box for years (in a rack setup).

AWESOME deal at this price. They're so cheap now. . . I'll never be able to sell my rack unit. . . .

If you buy one and don't like it. . . sell it to me. I'm dead serious. I can always use another one of these.

how would you use this w/ a pedalboard? help, i'm in need of DI-ing my board also!

[Mitch T]

Excellent suggestions, thanx !
With my requirement that it should be somewhat responsive to pedals (overdrive as well), I'm leaning more towards the Sansamp. 'Just' a DI is not enough, I know that doesn't work with a drive pedal.

[Tbone135]

I tried using a Sansamp GT-2 a few years ago and I just couldn't get what I wanted out of it. I found the Line 6 stuff to be much more realistic sounding.

[willyredeemed]

Found a SOLUTION! My aphex punch factory has DI out so i put it at the end of my chain. it has an option for dry and wet DI out...i chose dry (no compression...you can choose wet too, but i just didnt want any compression). took an xlr cable and ran the DI out into a mixer and voila, it worked! now i can plug straight into the mixer with my pedalboard, no amp.

question: if i got an ART Tube MP, would it create that natural tube clipping with my overdrive pedals (small fry and ltd)?

[orogeny]

Found a SOLUTION! My aphex punch factory has DI out so i put it at the end of my chain. it has an option for dry and wet DI out...i chose dry (no compression...you can choose wet too, but i just didnt want any compression). took an xlr cable and ran the DI out into a mixer and voila, it worked! now i can plug straight into the mixer with my pedalboard, no amp.

question: if i got an ART Tube MP, would it create that natural tube clipping with my overdrive pedals (small fry and ltd)?

I have been stuck in just that situation. You can certainly drive the tube into overdrive/distortion, if that is what you mean. Meanwhile, there is no "amp sim" that goes along with it. . . sounds kind of thin on it's own. . . but it does do that thing. Pretty cool, if you ask me. At 30 bucks, it's a steal.

[Mitch T]

Found a SOLUTION! My aphex punch factory has DI out so i put it at the end of my chain. it has an option for dry and wet DI out...i chose dry (no compression...you can choose wet too, but i just didnt want any compression). took an xlr cable and ran the DI out into a mixer and voila, it worked! now i can plug straight into the mixer with my pedalboard, no amp.

question: if i got an ART Tube MP, would it create that natural tube clipping with my overdrive pedals (small fry and ltd)?
How do the drive pedals sound now, with just the DI? I'm not concerned about my clean signal sounding okay, but I need a good drive too, sometimes.

[dk_ace]

I think you guys are missing the point of what he needs. He is not simply looking for a way to plug into a mixer. He wants something that will interface well with his pedals and replace an amp rig. There are very few viable solutions for this situation.

TBone 135, I couldn't disagree more. I've used all of the digital units (I even took them all out for an all day shootout), and I'll take the organic sounds of the Sansamp Tri AC any day over any one of those units. The only one I haven't had a chance to play is the Axe-FX, and I really want to get my hands on one of those. The digital units all had problems that I just couldn't deal with. They have a myriad of options, but they fail to just give a great, simple tone. You can dial up such a tone with the Sansamp TRI AC in about sixty seconds.

To each their own, but if you're on a budget the Sansamp is hard to beat. Even if you have a lot more money available, the Sansamp is still really hard to beat. The only thing on the market that I would take over the Sansamp is the Axe-FX, but there is over a thousand dollars difference between the two.

D

[dorfmeister]

The Damage Control unit I mentioned would be good for your needs if you can get one cheap used. They don't hold their value very well used.

Takes pedals well.

[Tbone135]

DK ace, that Sansamp did a pretty good Boogie impression but it really let me down with anything resembling a Fender clean. Believe me, I tried to make it work and was disappointed I couldn't use it.

I hated the Line 6 stuff until I stopped trying to use everything it had and started from scratch with one basic tone. Now I have 3 or 4 that really sound good with my regular pedalboard after a TON of experimentation. I can post some live stuff of it if you like.

[kludge]

You don't just need DI... you need speaker simulation. Guitar speakers roll off the highs hard, and have strong peaks in the mid-bass and upper midrange. It's a very distinctive sound. DI electric guitar without those peaks and rolloffs can sound - well, not BAD, but weird. Too thin and too bright.

Sansamps are a good cheap solution. So is a Morley JD-10 if you can find one used. So is a POD or a Vox Valvetronix or something, if you don't mind modeled sound (some like it, some don't). But I think you'll find a straight DI to be unsatisfying.

[Mitch T]

I think you guys are missing the point of what he needs. He is not simply looking for a way to plug into a mixer. He wants something that will interface well with his pedals and replace an amp rig. There are very few viable solutions for this situation.

Spot on, thanks !
The reason I don't tend towards Line6/Damage Control is the plastic factor :( I've seen too much reliablilty problems with 'em. Point is, I also want to use this as a backup for my 'main' rig, for the band I play lead guitar. I'll pass.
Only drawback on the GT2 is that it has no XLR out, but I have a general DI, so that's okay. On the lookout for one now :AOK

[willyredeemed]

How do the drive pedals sound now, with just the DI? I'm not concerned about my clean signal sounding okay, but I need a good drive too, sometimes.

It sounds REALLY thin...sounds nothing like going thru my fender deville. anybody know if i can take the "speaker out" and run that straight to a board via DI?

[Tweeker]

I think you guys are missing the point of what he needs. He is not simply looking for a way to plug into a mixer. He wants something that will interface well with his pedals and replace an amp rig. There are very few viable solutions for this situation... if you're on a budget the Sansamp is hard to beat.D

BINGO!!!!!
Here's the deal. There is nothing that responds to your pedals like your amp. So use your amp. The most cost effective way that I've found is tapping the speaker out of the amp using a Palmer PDI-09 and then into an attenuator to crank down the volume and safely give it a dummy load.

It's twice the cost of a SansAmp unit, but you'll have the real deal and it does sound different. That being said, I also use a SansAmp in a pinch and I agree it's hard to beat.

[POD Buster]

I use Crate PowerBlock for same application. Out of production but still plenty on the used market. Suprisingly good tone, too!

[Tbone135]

Mitch, Try that GT-2 before you buy. I was pretty disappointed with mine and I was trying to do the same thing you are now. And about the Line 6 stuff durability-I've never seen an issue with the Pods myself. The DL-4 has a reputation of cheesy switches, but the Pods are pretty tough.

[Mitch T]

I think I'll buy one secondhand, 'cause I really got to test it with the full setup, including the in ear monitoring system.
For those who missed it, for the particular band I'm talking about I need eletrci guitar just a few times, so I'm not very anal about my tone there, especially when we're using an in-ear monitoring system. It's not a three way driver, so my great guitar tone won't shine through anyway ;)

[Tbone135]

For that application, I'm sure it'll be fine.

[ruach1]

Interesting discussion. I've done the DI thing in a worship setting for 15 years. (In a bar or club, use your amp!). I've been VERY happy with my SansAmp Tri-A.C. I find it is much more useful than the GT-2. I have tried all the PODs and their like, but I hate the latency of all digital pre-amps. When I play a note, I want to hear it immediately, not wait a few milliseconds. Digital modelers can sound excellent, but for me, they take all the fun out of playing.
The Tri-A.C. works very nicely with other pedals, although I find I can get all the clean/OD/Dist sounds I need with the three channels and the 5 way switch on my HSS & piezo semi-hollow. I can even dial up a decent acoustic preamp sound for my piezo.
I used a Shure in-ear system as well, which I'm still getting used to.

[PJH]

I've been using one of these lately. Love it. It has one of the best amp sims I've heard. Bit hard to get now though.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/FoxgloveStudios/marshalldrp1.jpg

[Mitch T]

Interesting discussion. I've done the DI thing in a worship setting for 15 years. (In a bar or club, use your amp!). I've been VERY happy with my SansAmp Tri-A.C. I find it is much more useful than the GT-2. I used a Shure in-ear system as well, which I'm still getting used to.
It does take some time, doesn't it?
What are the differences between the Tri-AC and the GT2 acoording to you?

[LouRossi]

I've been using one of these lately. Love it. It has one of the best amp sims I've heard. Bit hard to get now though.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/FoxgloveStudios/marshalldrp1.jpg
what's the model name/#?
thx Lou

[PJH]

It's a Marshall DRP-1. Direct Recording Preamp. It takes pedals beautifully. Also got a headphone output etc.

Great cleans and you get the dirt from your pedals. There is a boost on the unit itself which doesn't give a bad distortion but I find it's a bit over the top. I've mounted this on my board permanently as we do a lot of festivals where you're dependent on the sound guy for a decent tone. This was you give him a feed from your board and tell him to put the eq on your channel flat. You're always sure you'll get a decent tone through the PA.

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd228/FoxgloveStudios/InCase.jpg

[redpill]

For the right now, Tri-AC. For the long haul, those new Tech 21 Character Series pedals look impressive, but I'll admit I (like almost everyone else) have not yet gotten my hands on one. I for one find the Line6 stuff to be of questionable build quality (especially their most recent models), and I can still hear the digital-ness. I'm a SansAmp lover, for whatever that's worth.

[Oddos]

I`m very interested in this as well. If they sound good and are reasonably responsive, one those Liverpool or Blonde pedals could be a great going direct. Also maybe a great setup for practice with just a Boomerang and computer monitors.

I do lots of those gigs with just a bassplayer and a singer on acoustic where I`m the only one bringing an amp. The gig is usually in a small bar in the middle of nowhere and we`re just playing some calssics for the old people to sing and dance too. I used to bring my Guytron head, which is obviously overkill, but now I even feel a small combo is a hassle sometimes.

Just the thought of having it all in the gigbag takes a weight off my shoulders. And my guitar would also be the only piece of equipment I`d have to have a watchful eye on.

[ruach1]

It does take some time, doesn't it?
What are the differences between the Tri-AC and the GT2 acoording to you?

Three items:
Obviously, the three programmable switches. A GT2 is fine for recording, but live, having the three channels is wonderful.
I find it easier to get my sound on the Tri-AC. The controls are intuitive, and behave more like an amp. This is helpful, because I want to fine tune the EQ in a full band, full volume rehearsal. The EQ that sounds great in my bedroom is all wrong when the drums & keys are going full out. With the Tri-AC, if I need to cut the mids or something, I turn one knob in rehearsal, step on the switch twice, and my setting is saved, ready for playing live.
Finally, the OD on the Tri-AC seems more dynamic to me. I can set two different drive channels that will clean up with my guitar volume knob at different places, and use that knob or change pickups, and get a very wide range of dirt tones. The GT2 isn't as good at that - the Brit & Cal. settings are higher gain, and less versatile, to my ears.

[LouRossi]

I run a ZV Box of Rock w/ the Boost on at unity into the Behringer DI with cab sim. I plan on replacing the Behringer w/ the Palmer PDI-09 shortly

[Mincer]

I had no idea the Bad Monkey had a mixer out. Is is still clean then, or always with a hint of drive ?

On the lowest setting of the Bad Monkey, there is still a little bit of drive. I will say, though- I recently used it on a TV show with my electric>BM>diect to PA and it sounded wonderful.