Help me resolve this chord!

[Super Locrian]

How would you resolve a dominanth 13th chord, voiced root - 7th - 3rd - 13th? The 13th is the 3rd of the following major chord (V-I movement). Using economy of motion, you would keep the top note the same in both chords. But for some reason, I always "hear" the 13th descending down to the root of the I chord. But then it gets hard to get an interesting voicing of that chord, since I want the root in the bass as well.

What is the "standard" way of resolving this chord, what do you prefer, and why?

[rockinrob]

I don't know what to tell you as it all depends on context. Is this the voicing you're talking about?


Bb13
1)x
2)8
3)7
4)6
5)x
6)6

Have you tried a 9th?

1)x
2)6
3)7
4)5
5)6
6)x


But then it gets hard to get an interesting voicing of that chord, since I want the root in the bass as well.



Why? Are you playing solo guitar or something? IMO, a root on the bottom and the top is way overkill. In those contexts where i don't want a color tone on top but a root in the bass I'd usually just leave a 5th on the top. If you have a root on top I wouldn't put one in the bass:

1)x
2)4
3)3
4)3
5)3
6)x

If you like the b9 interval you could do this, but I'm not a fan of that sound in a maj7th chord most of the time:

1)x
2)4
3)5
4)5
5)5
6)x

Also, the general rule is when you have a root on top 6ths or 9ths are good lower in the chord, maybe a #11. Only other thing I might consider is something like this:

1)x
2)8
3)8
4)12
5)x
6)11

[Elektrik_SIxx]

How would you resolve a dominanth 13th chord, voiced root - 7th - 3rd - 13th? The 13th is the 3rd of the following major chord (V-I movement). Using economy of motion, you would keep the top note the same in both chords. But for some reason, I always "hear" the 13th descending down to the root of the I chord. But then it gets hard to get an interesting voicing of that chord, since I want the root in the bass as well.

What is the "standard" way of resolving this chord, what do you prefer, and why?
Why should there be a standard way to resolve this chord when you state that you want the root both on top and in the bass? That's pretty clear right? And why someone prefers a certain resolution has to do with the melody note being played, or simply with taste, not some theoretical explanation.
If , like you say, you want the root in the bass and on top you sure must have tried this one:

1) x
2)8
3)7
4)6
5)x
6)6

to:

1)x
2)4
3)5
4)5
5)6
6)x

[theohartman]

V------->I

13 up-> 5
3 = nat7
b7 down-> 3
R up-> R

-t

[KRosser]

Does it have to resolve to major? Can we resolve it down 1/2 step to a 7#9 chord? Or a whole step to a m6/9 chord?

Or resolve the 13th down a 1/2 step, the 7th up a half step, leave the middle note where it is, have the bass move V-I, and you have a dimMaj7 (or Db/D type slash chord if you were doing this in the 5th position)

[theohartman]

V------->I

13 up-> 5
3 = nat7
b7 down-> 3
R up-> R

-t

sorry i failed to answer OP ?s:

hearing this as a final cadence, i liked it for its major-seventh intervals in both chords, voice-leading, and the fact that it doesn't double the root.

i would not over-emphasize economy of motion as a criteria, especially if it's resulting in uninspiring choices. and if your ear is telling you to resolve the 3rd of the V down to the 1 of the I, and to have the I's root in the lower voice as well, then by all means do so.

in fact, maybe reverse gears and see if another voicing of the V13 lets you get to that expression of the I better than the one you've chosen to start with, lest the tail wag the dog.

[Super Locrian]

Some nice suggestions! This Bb13 voicing was exactly what I meant:

1)x
2)8
3)7
4)6
5)x
6)6

I like this resolution, suggested by rockinrob:

1)x
2)8
3)8
4)12
5)x
6)11

Resolving to a ninth chord (R-3rd-maj7th-9th) works good, too. A plain maj7th voicing (R-5th-maj7th-3rd) is good if you don't want things too jazzy. Doubling the root obviously makes for a much less exciting voicing, with the exception of the one listed above.

Ken Rosser: The Db/D resolution was very cool, but where do you go from there? Not really a stable chord - it, too, wants to be resolved. And I'm afraid I didn't understand what you mean in the first paragraph below. What voicings would you use for these chords?



Does it have to resolve to major? Can we resolve it down 1/2 step to a 7#9 chord? Or a whole step to a m6/9 chord?

Or resolve the 13th down a 1/2 step, the 7th up a half step, leave the middle note where it is, have the bass move V-I, and you have a dimMaj7 (or Db/D type slash chord if you were doing this in the 5th position)

[StevenA]

Standard resolution??:

1) x
2) 7
3) 6
4) 5 slide into:
5) x
6) 5

1) x
2) 8
3) 7
4) 6
5) x
6) 6

1) 8
2) 8
3) 7
4) 6
5) x
6) x

1) 7
2) 7
3) 7
4) 6
5) x
6) x

1) 6
2) 6
3) 5
4) 5
5) x
6) x

SA

[KRosser]

Ken Rosser: The Db/D resolution was very cool, but where do you go from there? Not really a stable chord - it, too, wants to be resolved.

I don't think so...well, I mean, doesn't everything want to go somewhere until you get to the end? Even so, I've heard that as an 'end chord' many times.

And I'm afraid I didn't understand what you mean in the first paragraph below. What voicings would you use for these chords?

Exactly what I said - just slide the voicing you already have down.

In the 5th position - slide the G, C# & F# down a half step to F#, C & F - there you go, D7#9, or down a whole step to F, B & E - Dm6/9

[Super Locrian]

I don't think so...well, I mean, doesn't everything want to go somewhere until you get to the end? Even so, I've heard that as an 'end chord' many times.

OK, but it still sounds unresolved to me. If the lowest note is the root, then we have a minor maj7 b5 chord. Not very consonant. But that's not to say it doesn't sound cool.

Exactly what I said - just slide the voicing you already have down.

In the 5th position - slide the G, C# & F# down a half step to F#, C & F - there you go, D7#9, or down a whole step to F, B & E - Dm6/9

Ok, now I get it. You could also resolve to a major 6/9.

All in all, this thread has given me much good info! Thanks everyone!

[rockinrob]

Ken Rosser: The Db/D resolution was very cool, but where do you go from there? Not really a stable chord - it, too, wants to be resolved. And I'm afraid I didn't understand what you mean in the first paragraph below. What voicings would you use for these chords?



I'm not Ken, but I'll try anyway. :drool



Again, you're doing all this stuff in a vacuum, there's no context. You need a melody, you need a rhythmic aspect, you need a place to come from and a place to go to. We're taught to think of tension and resolution in harmonic terms, but in the real world you have just as much control over these aspects with your rhythm and phrasing than with your note choices.

[KRosser]

I'm not Ken, but I'll try anyway. :drool

Ha! Be my guest....

Again, you're doing all this stuff in a vacuum, there's no context. You need a melody, you need a rhythmic aspect, you need a place to come from and a place to go to. We're taught to think of tension and resolution in harmonic terms, but in the real world you have just as much control over these aspects with your rhythm and phrasing than with your note choices.

Of course, I agree with this...

One other thing that doesn't get said enough is that the language of jazz as it's spoken 'on the street' does not lend itself to such facile methods, like 'dissonances need to resolve'. It sounds just about as corny as if you were to learn French from a phrase book and then I drop you off in the middle of Paris.

[KRosser]

Ok, now I get it. You could also resolve to a major 6/9.


Sure - you get the idea

[brad347]

OK, but it still sounds unresolved to me. If the lowest note is the root, then we have a minor maj7 b5 chord. Not very consonant. But that's not to say it doesn't sound cool.


Well, the nomenclature you're using doesn't represent the intent.

The most typical intent of Db/D in this context is as a diminished structure; a diminished chord with a major seventh (which is present in the whole-half diminished scale). In other words, this sonority is evoking a D whole-half diminished "thing."

If we are in the key of "D," or the fifth position (starting from A13 as per this example) then it gives you a very nice "common-tone-diminished" type of sound. It's pretty common in music to delay the resolution of the tonic by substituting its parallel diminished seventh chord before eventually resolving to the tonic. This sort of movement dates all the way back to the classical era and probably further.

In more modern times, sometimes it's desirable to leave the listener 'hanging' and generate some provocative interest by leaving the last chord a little more unresolved-- so you just don't resolve it.

It's, as Ken said, a very commonly-heard device. As with most things harmony-related, your best friend is listening to and enjoying lots of music with similar harmony. The questions all answer themselves at that point.

If a little more pedestrian of a resolution is what you're after, you could always 'close the books' after the diminished sonority and resolve the F and Ab of the Db triad up a half step to F# and A, or the third and fifth respectively of your good old-fashioned drop-2 D∆7 chord.

[this1smyne]

k, knowing nothing of music theory or all this jazz, but learning quite a bit: i would resolve it like this
10
11
8
8
x
x

but just cause it sounds pretty to my ears (esp on my strat ;) )
You can play with the bass note too if you want, i just would let it ring out though

[this1smyne]

ok, i might have lied, these chords are fun

x x x 10
8 6 4 11
7 7 5 8
6 6 5 8
x x 6 x
6 x x x

[Clifford-D]

How would you resolve a dominanth 13th chord, voiced root - 7th - 3rd - 13th? The 13th is the 3rd of the following major chord (V-I movement). Using economy of motion, you would keep the top note the same in both chords. But for some reason, I always "hear" the 13th descending down to the root of the I chord. But then it gets hard to get an interesting voicing of that chord, since I want the root in the bass as well.

What is the "standard" way of resolving this chord, what do you prefer, and why?
There are many ways to resolve that chord

One is V to I
...G13...Cmaj7
|----------|
|---5----5-|
|---4----4-|
|---3----5-|
|--------3-|
|---3------|

Another thing you can do is not resolve to I.
As in Killer Joe
......C13.......Bb13
|----------------|
|------10------8-|
|------9-------7-|
|------8-------6-|
|----------------|
|---8--------6---|