Alright, I'm ready to focus on actually learning to play my Guitar!

[VintageToneGuy]

I've spent tooooooooo loooooooong searching for gear and sound and tone to the serious neglect of playing. Where I am right now with my ability to play reminds me of where I was after my first three years of playing. From the beginning to the third year I never got past the third fret of the guitar and could only play the basic chords. Every time I changed strings, they were only worn up to fret #3.

To get past that wall; I bought a book on scales by Troy Setina and learned the Minor Pentatonic Scales. For about two years, I could only play the 'box' then some dude in a store (who heard me) very graciously said, "don't play the whole box from front to back; play a part of the box and move into the next box". Brilliant! Why didn't I ever think of that?

So, that's basically where I'm at. I've been playing for about 8 - 9 years and I can play all my chords (especially barre chords) and the boxes and here's my problem: I don't really know any licks.

Help me with a link to some Free Sites (I've spent too much on gear) that can show me some very simple, basic licks that I can use and apply to any key that a song is in.

Thanks!

vtg

Ps - Confessing this is hard :eek:

[Tom Gross]

I applaud your asking for help.


a few:
http://www.blueslessons.net/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=137&Itemid=88

http://www.guitarmasterclass.net/video-lessons/pop-rock_0.html

[fuzz_factor]

I've been playing guitar for about 20 years. Well, there was a 10 year hiatus where I hardly ever picked up my guitars. About two years ago I got back into playing (and GASing) seriously.

I've always been a tab, guitar mag, sheet music, etc. kind of guy. That approach has gotten me to the point where I can on the blues, play scales, lots of chord progression, read music, understand music theory, etc. but something is lacking. Although I can play many songs, or at least bits of songs, I usually quickly forget what I've just played and learned when working from tab.

Lately, I've been spending more and more time developing my ear and my singing ability, trying to accurately sing what I hear in my head and on the radio, or sing along with guitar phrases).

Any time spent improving my ear has been an order of magnitude more valuable in my development as a player than any instruction book, tablature, website, etc. When you use your ear, you really figure out what works, why and how and it's easier to come up with interesting riffs, licks, progressions, etc. You also really start to understand how music works on a more instinctual level.

I have plenty of work to do with this, and it can be discouraging. In fact, I have pretty tin ear and that's what ultimately caused me to quit playing for years. Try being the guy who wants to major in music in college, but being the only person pulled aside after his first Ear-Training 101 class because he can't accurately sing solfeggi. But with work, my ear (and voice) is getting better.

I wish that 20 years ago or so, when I first picked up a guitar, someone would grabbed me by the should and said, "Put down the books and magazines and just listen and figure things out!"

Good luck!- jeff -

[Ken Ho]

If all you have learnt is theory , then it's time to learn some songs.

If all you have learnt is songs, it's time to learn some theory.

[Dave Orban]

First... step away from the Gear Page...









;)

[Ken Ho]

First... step away from the Gear Page...









;)

Aw, that's harsh ! THIS section is all about playing, not GASsing.

[yZe]

You need to keep up with RichardB's Face 2 Face series

Don't fall behind
http://www.youtube.com/user/RBisanerd

[Jon]

My advice would be DO NOT look for websites or books that can show you licks to learn (at least initially), and DO NOT ask other people to do the work for you.

LISTEN TO MUSIC....lots of it and learn by copying other people from recorded examples. For you to learn the guitar is a journey which only you can take, and the direction of that journey is yours to decide. The way you approach learning is far more important to your musical development than anything else. You have to do the musical research yourself otherwise your playing will not be true to you..and others will be able to hear that. You have to spend a great deal of time thinking about what you want to do and how you might go about it.

If you read lots of interviews with players who inspire you (and you should) the common thread is that they were fanatical about analysing their playing and that of their heroes - not necessarily specifically from a theoretical point-of-view, but rather all aspects, from the overall sound and feel, to very specific things such as vibrato and certain signature licks. Who do you want to be able to play like? Have you tried learning their licks from CDs without using transcriptions or tab? Have you read interviews with them talking about how they developed their style. Have you researched their heroes & tried to learn their licks from CDs? What do you want to learn to be able to play? Why? Is it because that style of music turns you on (good), or because you think you ought to be able to play it to be considered a 'good' guitarist? (not good).

There is a lifetime of study to be done and the good news is that it's hugely enjoyable. I'm not totally against learning from books, DVDs and the web, but I firmly believe that these are tools which should not be relied upon as the fundamental basis of your learning process. There is a marked difference between, on the one hand opening your guitar magazine, going to the "5 great Albert King licks" lesson and learning the licks from the tab, and on the other hand, listening to and loving the playing of SRV, Clapton etc, reading interviews with them stating how much they've been influenced by Albert King, buying your first Albert King CD and learning loads of licks from it and really getting into him as a musician.

To truly develop you have to get in touch with what it is inside you that makes you want to play and follow that path. Imagine a scenario where an artist goes onto a web forum where the minute details of paintbrush bristles are argued over, and people look down on artists who use cheap, mass-produced paint thinners. The artists asks " I want to start painting pictures..I've got my brushes sorted and I understand what type of canvas to use. Now what should I paint & what colours should I use?"

[elgalad]

Wow, awesome post. Absolutely 100% spot on. :BEER

It's just a shame that I've only recently started to realise this after 7 years of playing.

My advice would be DO NOT look for websites or books that can show you licks to learn (at least initially), and DO NOT ask other people to do the work for you.

LISTEN TO MUSIC....lots of it and learn by copying other people from recorded examples. For you to learn the guitar is a journey which only you can take, and the direction of that journey is yours to decide. The way you approach learning is far more important to your musical development than anything else. You have to do the musical research yourself otherwise your playing will not be true to you..and others will be able to hear that. You have to spend a great deal of time thinking about what you want to do and how you might go about it.

If you read lots of interviews with players who inspire you (and you should) the common thread is that they were fanatical about analysing their playing and that of their heroes - not necessarily specifically from a theoretical point-of-view, but rather all aspects, from the overall sound and feel, to very specific things such as vibrato and certain signature licks. Who do you want to be able to play like? Have you tried learning their licks from CDs without using transcriptions or tab? Have you read interviews with them talking about how they developed their style. Have you researched their heroes & tried to learn their licks from CDs? What do you want to learn to be able to play? Why? Is it because that style of music turns you on (good), or because you think you ought to be able to play it to be considered a 'good' guitarist? (not good).

There is a lifetime of study to be done and the good news is that it's hugely enjoyable. I'm not totally against learning from books, DVDs and the web, but I firmly believe that these are tools which should not be relied upon as the fundamental basis of your learning process. There is a marked difference between, on the one hand opening your guitar magazine, going to the "5 great Albert King licks" lesson and learning the licks from the tab, and on the other hand, listening to and loving the playing of SRV, Clapton etc, reading interviews with them stating how much they've been influenced by Albert King, buying your first Albert King CD and learning loads of licks from it and really getting into him as a musician.

To truly develop you have to get in touch with what it is inside you that makes you want to play and follow that path. Imagine a scenario where an artist goes onto a web forum where the minute details of paintbrush bristles are argued over, and people look down on artists who use cheap, mass-produced paint thinners. The artists asks " I want to start painting pictures..I've got my brushes sorted and I understand what type of canvas to use. Now what should I paint & what colours should I use?"

[VintageToneGuy]

Thanks for all the help and information. I know that tone and technique comes from the heart and that is instilled by listening to others. My "Guiter Heroes" are basically from my childhood. Being born in 1961 I was turned onto Deep Purple (ie, Ritchie Blackmore) and Steppenwolf and Black Sabbath (ie, Tony Iommi <sp.>) before I was 7 years old. Then came those troubled years (musically) of The Partridge Family and the Jackson Five then back to Alice Cooper, AC\DC, etc.... So, I like alot of different music but really love the Bluesy \ Rock sound of Clapton, Stevie Ray and Allman Bros., etc...

-You Said-
"To truly develop you have to get in touch with what it is inside you that makes you want to play and follow that path. Imagine a scenario where an artist goes onto a web forum where the minute details of paintbrush bristles are argued over, and people look down on artists who use cheap, mass-produced paint thinners. The artists asks " I want to start painting pictures..I've got my brushes sorted and I understand what type of canvas to use. Now what should I paint & what colours should I use?"
-end quote-

This has been my problem for the last 4 years is analyzing the tone or 'inspecting the bristles on the artists brush'. I think I can do more with licks and things that I give myself credit for. One of the funest things I can do is to play along with a CD or Radio and try to figure out what Key the song is in, which I can do pretty easily; then add a few more licks here and there once I find the right key. I've learned somewhat doing that.

Thanks again for all the input. It's all taken to heart.

vtg

[anxiousmofo]

I'm in the same boat as you and have been finding this guy's (Barrett Tagliarino) stuff immensely accessible and helpful:

http://monsterguitars.com/

[angus99]

I'm in the same boat as you and have been finding this guy's (Barrett Tagliarino) stuff immensely accessible and helpful:

http://monsterguitars.com/

+1 I have "Fretboard Workbook" and "Chord Tone Soloing." Best books for my level I've found anywhere.

angus

[Jon]

Wow, awesome post. Absolutely 100% spot on. :BEER

It's just a shame that I've only recently started to realise this after 7 years of playing.

Don't worry - it's taken me a lot longer to work it out myself.

I would recommend everyone to read Philip Sudo's 'Zen Guitar' book - when you've lost a bit of focus it really helps to get you back in touch with why you love playing and what you should really be focusing on.

[Jon]

Thanks for all the help and information. I know that tone and technique comes from the heart and that is instilled by listening to others. My "Guiter Heroes" are basically from my childhood. Being born in 1961 I was turned onto Deep Purple (ie, Ritchie Blackmore) and Steppenwolf and Black Sabbath (ie, Tony Iommi <sp.>) before I was 7 years old. Then came those troubled years (musically) of The Partridge Family and the Jackson Five then back to Alice Cooper, AC\DC, etc.... So, I like alot of different music but really love the Bluesy \ Rock sound of Clapton, Stevie Ray and Allman Bros., etc...

-You Said-
"To truly develop you have to get in touch with what it is inside you that makes you want to play and follow that path. Imagine a scenario where an artist goes onto a web forum where the minute details of paintbrush bristles are argued over, and people look down on artists who use cheap, mass-produced paint thinners. The artists asks " I want to start painting pictures..I've got my brushes sorted and I understand what type of canvas to use. Now what should I paint & what colours should I use?"
-end quote-

This has been my problem for the last 4 years is analyzing the tone or 'inspecting the bristles on the artists brush'. I think I can do more with licks and things that I give myself credit for. One of the funest things I can do is to play along with a CD or Radio and try to figure out what Key the song is in, which I can do pretty easily; then add a few more licks here and there once I find the right key. I've learned somewhat doing that.

Thanks again for all the input. It's all taken to heart.

vtg

Listening to others plays a big part in musical development, but you also need to spend a lot of time actually learning specific licks from the records. Get a Clapton CD out, find a medium tempo track and start stealing some licks immediately - you should find plenty of stuff which works well in a variety of musical styles.

I find a lot of musical education is a bit back-to-front e.g. "We are now going to learn the blues scale. The scale degrees are root, b3, 4 blah blah blah etc" I'm not advocating not knowing the theory, but did you learn to speak by being taught grammar first? No, you heard noises that you liked and wanted to imitate, which as you heard them and used them more, started to have meaning. The best way to learn IMO is to learn actual licks, riff etc and start using them straight away in YOUR music. Theory only becomes relevant when it is used to analyse something which you can at least half do already.

One important thing to be really aware of when coming up with your own licks is the rhythmic element of the riff - the notes are probably actually less important in the long run than the way that they are phrased. You mention running up and down the notes in a box shape - I've seen quite a few players who do that triplet 'diddly diddly diddly diddly diddly diddly' thing with no variation or syncopation in the rhythm of the notes & it doesn't sound that good. When you solo try thinking of the rhythm of a guitar or brass riff but play whatever notes you want using the rhythmic variation of that riff. Or use the rhythm of a well know tune but your own notes - that way it's easier to come up with actual phrases rather than meandering streams of notes. When playing using the blues or pentatonic scales it's easy to ignore the underlying chords but it's always worth trying to target a couple of chord tones when the chord changes. A good idea is to play over a simple progression, but without any backing track and imagine that, with the notes you are playing you are trying to demonstrate to another musician exactly what chords you are playing over and where the changes ocurr.

Don't forget that all the work you've put into tone and equipment isn't wasted either - it's yielded results and been a lot of fun too probably!!

[Ken Ho]

Coming from a background of professional training with a vast amount of material to absorb and integrate, we were always exhorted not to "re-invent the wheel", which meant being willing to access knowledge from any source and not to think we had to work everything out from scratch.
So, I'm not really as into ignoring books, transcriptions and Internet info, though I critically examine the quality of anything I find on the net.
Sure, steal those licks, but don't think you can't use a transcription to learn them quicker. Like learning a new language, once you have learnt them, you will start to recognise them in other songs and put them in your own compositions.
The few lucky ones who hear pitches easily and are ablr to play by ear have a poor recognition of just how hard to impossible that can be for most guys.
Chances are, if you could do that, you would not have started this thread, you would have just been hearing them already.
Also, using a metronome is such animportant tool. I just spent an hour or so on one now, cos my playing has suffered from work and tendonitis lately, and I could feel things getting better already.

[Jon]

Coming from a background of professional training with a vast amount of material to absorb and integrate, we were always exhorted not to "re-invent the wheel", which meant being willing to access knowledge from any source and not to think we had to work everything out from scratch.
So, I'm not really as into ignoring books, transcriptions and Internet info, though I critically examine the quality of anything I find on the net.
Sure, steal those licks, but don't think you can't use a transcription to learn them quicker. Like learning a new language, once you have learnt them, you will start to recognise them in other songs and put them in your own compositions.
The few lucky ones who hear pitches easily and are ablr to play by ear have a poor recognition of just how hard to impossible that can be for most guys.
Chances are, if you could do that, you would not have started this thread, you would have just been hearing them already.
Also, using a metronome is such animportant tool. I just spent an hour or so on one now, cos my playing has suffered from work and tendonitis lately, and I could feel things getting better already.

I think it's about finding a balance between playing for the sake of your own art, and playing for work. I play in a function band doing weddings and corporate events - that's work to me. I play a wide range of material, some of which I like and some of which I don't like. I'll use any tool available including online tab and trasncriptions to get appropriate guitar parts sorted quickly for new tunes in our repertoire.

On the other hand, I play a mixture of funk, blues, rock and jazz for myself, and when I'm trying to develop my ability in these areas I tend to spend a lot more time listening to other musicians and trying to work out what they are doing. It's not that I won't use instructional material - quite the opposite in some cases, but the material that I do use is in support of the theory/technique/styles that I am already working on because I have already indentified what I want/need to work on from my listening.

I don't actually believe that many people simply cannot hear pitches well due to a lack of natural ability. I think it's got a lot more to do with how much they've worked at it. I started out as a little kid trying to pick out TV theme tunes by ear on an old piano - I wasn't very good to start with but it got easier with time. Even now, if I have to learn a set full of covers tunes for a dep gig, by the end of the process my ear will have got better at hearing certain changes. I think if you rely too much on learning material from written sources, there is a danger of it sounding a little 'flat' and uninspired. Transcription cannot easily show all the subtle elements of a performance which really make the difference between average and excellent. In classical music where a great deal of material is learnt from transcriptions, great emphasis is placed on interpretation of the material because of this.

What might help the original poster, is to write out a broad description of what he wants to achieve, then break this down into a number of relevant sections and then break each section down into specifics. This way you can work on very specific things e.g. learning a particular solo or lick and see how it fits into the overall plan of what you want to achieve.

[Ken Ho]

Gonna have to agree to disagree on the pitch sense thing. I agree that it can be developed, but it takes a long time, and it's just plain unfair to expect someone without natural ability to do their own transcriptions.
For me, pitch sense is coming slowly, but it is following learning licks, not preceding it.
And when did I ever say there was no value in listening to the music as you play from the transcriptions to learn all the subtle nuances missing form the notation ?
All I am saying, is that using all the tools in the toolbox is OK, and the "purist" approach of doing things the hard way always reminds me of the old Yorkshiremen.

[Jon]

Gonna have to agree to disagree on the pitch sense thing. I agree that it can be developed, but it takes a long time, and it's just plain unfair to expect someone without natural ability to do their own transcriptions.

This feels as though you're saying that because it's going to require some hard work it's not worth doing. It depends on what you want to achieve, but for me, developing my musical ear by learning licks from CDs is more important than the specific licks that I have learnt i.e. it's the journey that's important rather than the destination - it DOES take a long time. But then becoming a really good guitarist takes a very long time and a lot of commitment. I can't imaging that there are many great guitarists out there who didn't go through the process of learning parts by ear from records & CDs rather than from online transcriptions and info from web forums. I used to think that the great guitarists that I admired somehow had 'natural ability' but the more interviews I read with them the more I realised that their ability was far more to do with the sheer hard work and time that they had spent perfecting the different aspects of musicianship.

On the other hand you have to get a balance - the excitement you get from learning a new lick can keep you motivated & if a transcription can help you get it under your fingers quicker then the motivation comes quicker. If you're not a professional musician, or you're not aiming to be one then the chances are you have a limited amount of time to practice & play. Even so, I would say that part of your time should be spent at least having a go at learning stuff by ear - if you struggle for a bit and then have a look at a transcription you will still have made progress.

[Ken Ho]

This feels as though you're saying that because it's going to require some hard work it's not worth doing. It depends on what you want to achieve, but for me, developing my musical ear by learning licks from CDs is more important than the specific licks that I have learnt i.e. it's the journey that's important rather than the destination - it DOES take a long time. But then becoming a really good guitarist takes a very long time and a lot of commitment. I can't imaging that there are many great guitarists out there who didn't go through the process of learning parts by ear from records & CDs rather than from online transcriptions and info from web forums. I used to think that the great guitarists that I admired somehow had 'natural ability' but the more interviews I read with them the more I realised that their ability was far more to do with the sheer hard work and time that they had spent perfecting the different aspects of musicianship.

On the other hand you have to get a balance - the excitement you get from learning a new lick can keep you motivated & if a transcription can help you get it under your fingers quicker then the motivation comes quicker. If you're not a professional musician, or you're not aiming to be one then the chances are you have a limited amount of time to practice & play. Even so, I would say that part of your time should be spent at least having a go at learning stuff by ear - if you struggle for a bit and then have a look at a transcription you will still have made progress.

OK, I htink you read a whole bunch of stuf finto my post that just wasn't there.

Jeez mate, if I did not think that hard work was OK, there is no way I could own a guitar. Nothing comes to me easily, and I don't believe in "natural talent" much more than you do, but it is also true that some people can hear pitches much more easily than others.
I also did not say that doing your own transciptions is not worthwhile, EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Saying that it was hard and takes time, was not a a suggestion to not do it, but suggesting that using someone else's in the meantime might be OK.

What I did say, was that using every tool at your disposal is smart, and that doing things the hard way because other people in the past had no option contains no special virtue.
So, Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck learned to play by lifting the needle over and over, great, I bet they would not have if they had an easier alternative.
The suggestion which was made to not use transcriptions and just use your ear is just plain daft.
If you want to carve your own skis from a tree you felled yourself, be my guest, but I'll have a flash new pair off the rack from a store thanks.
I will still have to learn to ski though, won't I ?

A bit of aggro coming out of me here I know, but I get irked by people reading stuff into my posts that is not there, and I get irked by purists demanding people do do stuff the hard way because there is some kind of history of other people doing it that way.
The world is a work in progress, you don't crank your car, or ride a horse to work (probably).

[Jon]

OK, I htink you read a whole bunch of stuf finto my post that just wasn't there.

Jeez mate, if I did not think that hard work was OK, there is no way I could own a guitar. Nothing comes to me easily, and I don't believe in "natural talent" much more than you do, but it is also true that some people can hear pitches much more easily than others.
I also did not say that doing your own transciptions is not worthwhile, EVER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Saying that it was hard and takes time, was not a a suggestion to not do it, but suggesting that using someone else's in the meantime might be OK.

What I did say, was that using every tool at your disposal is smart, and that doing things the hard way because other people in the past had no option contains no special virtue.
So, Jimmy Page and Jeff Beck learned to play by lifting the needle over and over, great, I bet they would not have if they had an easier alternative.
The suggestion which was made to not use transcriptions and just use your ear is just plain daft.
If you want to carve your own skis from a tree you felled yourself, be my guest, but I'll have a flash new pair off the rack from a store thanks.
I will still have to learn to ski though, won't I ?

A bit of aggro coming out of me here I know, but I get irked by people reading stuff into my posts that is not there, and I get irked by purists demanding people do do stuff the hard way because there is some kind of history of other people doing it that way.
The world is a work in progress, you don't crank your car, or ride a horse to work (probably).

Take it easy - I was trying to point out how your post came across rather than saying that you specifically believe certain things - that's why I said "this feels as though you're saying" rather than "you are saying". I think most people reading your statement "it's just plain unfair to expect someone without natural ability to do their own transcriptions" would get the impression that you are saying that, if you find it hard to work out stuff by ear then don't do it - again this is what you APPEAR to be saying, rather than what you might actually mean.

All I was trying to get across was that ear training is a very important part of becoming a musician & learning licks is important so why not try to combine the 2 by learning stuff by ear - if this is a 'purist' viewpoint then fine. I have no problem with people using the available tools to help them learn (I use Amazing Slow Downer regularly & dissect midi files to work out awkward chords) as long as they are not neglecting the ear training side of things. My concern is that, in my experience, most beginner/intermediate guitarists can be more concerned with learning licks than with developing ear training (it's not terribly exciting) so the easier route of having access to tuition videos, transcriptions etc could lead to guitarists developing a slightly one-sided ability. I wonder if Jimmy Page or Jeff Beck hadn't spent a long time learning things by ear they wouldn't have developed to be the muscians they are - that's something that can't be proven either way - it's an interesting argument though. I've started another thread on exactly this question and there are some great replies - quite a few reckon that the great guitarists would always be innovative & creative regardless of their learning process.

I wasn't trying to have a go at you or make any claims regarding how you learn personally. To be honest this is getting away from my overall point to the original poster which was more about developing your own style, library of things to learn, licks etc by listening to music and picking up stuff from it rather than asking other people what to learn.