Acoustics Through PA ... Potential Problems?

[bug0711]

Any experiences would be welcomed. We're launching an acoustic based project with drums as well as pedal steel and bass. My concerns are feedback issues at stage volumes.

Are we better off running into our acoustic amps for monitors with a line out for the mains, or should I attempt running DI with vocal monitors also supporting the acoustics?

Any ideas? Small stages verses large stages?



ThX!

[JohnM]

Just some tips from experience...and a lot of this depends on HOW loud you will be playing.

If you are playing loud, a piezo will hands down be more controllable than any contact pickup or microphone setup. Soundhole pickups work well too.

Feedback busters are pretty handy where applicable (soundhole cover)

A dedicated acoustic amp is just another form of monitor...the thing to think about is that most vocal monitors sit in front of you on the floor, aimed right at your guitar, which can cause way more feedback problems than an amp aimed at your back.

Stage size is not really as much of a factor as PA/monitor layout and volume is. Sometimes a large spread-out stage setup (especially outdoors) can be an easier environment to control than a small club.

If you can get in-ear monitors, get 'em. You'll never go back.

[JohnSS]

If the acoustic guitar is primarily strumming chords in the background and the pedal steel is taking the bulk of melodic work, then going through the PA should be fine. If the acoustic guitar is trading solos, is using effects, has intricate fingerpicking parts, etc. then you may want to have a dedicated acoustic amp, since not all soundpersons and PA systems are created equal.

[re-animator]

If you can.... try for in-ear monitoring. Seems to solve a plethora of problems.

[JSeth]

good stuff already here - I'd add that a soundhole covering... there's a lot out there to buy, but a yogurt or sour cream tub works too.. be sure to use tape that doesn't peel your finish when it's removed!
As mentioned, your style of playing and the role the guitar will play in the mix has a lot to do with all these suggestions... if you demand really good tone for soloing/fingerpicking, do not expect your average sound man to get it for you - unless you have your own guy with you...
Have fun with it! Good luck!
John Seth Sherman

[bug0711]

Thanks for the replies. It looks like we'll take along amps and run direct out of them to the board.

Any other thoughts out there?

[Dave Orban]

I find piezos to be WAY to "spikey" into a PA. Or into anything else, for that matter. A compressor can help things a bit, but I just don't like how they sound.

I've been doing acoustic gigs for years using guitars fitted with Fishman Rare Earth blend soundhole pickups, and I've been VERY happy with their overall sound and ability to resist feedback at stage volumes.

Straight into the PA, with minimal EQ. Sometimes, I'll throw a Boss GE-7 Equalizer and/or a volume pedal in the chain, just to have some additional control.

[in a little row]

Thanks for the replies. It looks like we'll take along amps and run direct out of them to the board.

Any other thoughts out there?

Bear in mind, most acoustic amps that have direct out are pre-EQ, meaning the sound you hear on stage likely wont be the one going out to the fans...and if you have floor monitors around, it wont help feedback

You never said what pickup systems youre using, so ill assume they are UST...for my Martin dread i use a Baggs M1a soundhole pickup for anything louder than small gig, anything with drums...i have a rubber feedback buster ive cut in half to fit under the mag...i also have a K&K pure western, the 2 Pps are wired into a stereo jack...if i have a sound guy, i send the 2 to the mains, the Baggs only to the monitors...i have no feedback issues and hear everything wonderfully in most situations

I have also learned that if you are running your own sound with amps/monitors, if you EQ less bass into the stage mix, you are likely to still hear alot of bass from the mains and the room, cutting back on potential low end feedback



j

[bug0711]

My amp has both a pre and post EQ out. On the guitars I'm using a stock undersaddle Baggs in a J-45, a Piezo Fishman Prefix in a Gretsch and I'm looking into a Martin stock fitted with a blend system.

[Deadduck]

I play my J-45 with Baggs Element straight into the PA through a Baggs PADI. I added a PUTW Quackbuster to it to make it a little less, well, quacky. But I have no problems even with a floor monitor right in front of me.
Definitely go with in ears if you can afford them though. Helps cut the stage volume down quite a bit.

[mcdes]

when ive had to use a feedback buster, ive found it dulls the tone and really makes it boomy(crap). but have always played di to desk, but thats because i dont have and acoustic amp to actually try and see if its any better.

but if you dont get feedback, it works sweet.

[walterw]

I play my J-45 with Baggs Element straight into the PA through a Baggs PADI. I added a PUTW Quackbuster to it to make it a little less, well, quacky.
now that's interesting. the PUTW site says the Quackbuster tames the spikey-ness of the undersaddle pickup, adds realness, and, by being slightly out of phase, actually reduces feedback. how has it performed for you?

(edit) i just stumbled into your answer to that very question here (http://www.taylorguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1412899). thanks.

[MichaelK]

If it's an acoustic gig, keep your stage volume low.

My rule of thumb for an acoustic set, both for stage volume and FOH, is to get the level to where you just hear it, then turn it one notch higher. No more.

I would never choose a pickup system based on a fear of feeding back. Buy the system that sounds best for the guitar and learn to adjust it. The best pickup, mic, monitors, whatever in the world can't always prevent feedback... just lower the volume, change your angle, or EQ it out.

[walterw]

I would never choose a pickup system based on a fear of feeding back. Buy the system that sounds best for the guitar and learn to adjust it.
??? the "best" sounding pickup for an acoustic guitar is a condenser mic on a stand, but good luck using it in front of a drummer. you can "adjust" it all you want, but when the drums are louder into that mic than your guitar is, the drums are going to win.

all acoustic amplification is a compromise between realism and feedback resistance. the better the system, the less compromising you have to do, but the louder or more lo-fi the gig, the more you'll have to do. when looking at acoustic pickups, the need for stability at volume can never be ignored.

[MichaelK]

??? the "best" sounding pickup for an acoustic guitar is a condenser mic on a stand, but good luck using it in front of a drummer. you can "adjust" it all you want, but when the drums are louder into that mic than your guitar is, the drums are going to win.

But... I uh, never suggested using a condenser mic while standing in front of a drum kit. :confused:

[walterw]

But... I uh, never suggested using a condenser mic while standing in front of a drum kit. :confused:
sure, of course not. i was just using the most extreme example of choosing an acoustic pickup strictly for sound to make my point that you have to consider its feedback resistance as well, depending on the gig.

[MichaelK]

i was just using the most extreme example... to make my point

Yes, I noticed. An example never used in real life by anyone, anywhere.

[franksguitar]

Use a good acoustic amp with a line out to the PA or use new preamp boxes