slow blow/fast blow fuses change tone??????

[rockeye]

I recently blew a fuse for my super reverb. I bought 3 amp slow blows and fast blows and tried them both. The slow blow sounded fuller and aggressive. The fast blow sounded and felt more balanced and a bit thinner.
Is there any truth to this.........fuses changed tone? Or am I just hearing things?

[phsyconoodler]

You are hearing things.I was under the impression that a super reverb uses a 2.5 amp fuse.A fuse cannot do anything to the power section other than protect it.
Why did the fuse blow in the first place?
Actually the schematic for an AB763 super reverb shows a 2amp fuse.What super model do you have?Make sure it says 3amp on the panel before using a 3 amp fuse.

[Blue Strat]

I'm with phsychnoodler on this one.

On the other hand, Eric Johnson claims to be able to "hear" what type of fuel the power plant generating power for his amps is using.......;)

[donnyjaguar]

I've resisted the temptation to draw comparisons to the topic and procreation.

[Rosewood]

I'm gonna be needen me soma dem reverberatin fuses, how much?

[ChickenLover]

You had the fast blow in backwards. Pull it out and reverse it and do the test over...then report back.

[rhp52]

is a litle off topic but we are talking fuses here....

I don't know what to think about this.

http://www.ultrasystem.com/usfeaturedprodsFUSE.html

[RL in Fla]

I don't know what to think about this.

http://www.ultrasystem.com/usfeaturedprodsFUSE.html

I'll bet an Audiologist would LOVE to get their mailing list . :D

Rosewood - I'm gonna be needen me soma dem reverberatin fuses, how much?

I dunno , I haven't sprung for any of em lately .

[rockon1]

On the other hand, Eric Johnson claims to be able to "hear" what type of fuel the power plant generating power for his amps is using.......;)

Nice one Mike! lol! :rotflmaoBob

[pgissi]

You may be hearing the reason the fuse blew in the 1st place!

Is it still blowing fuses, even intermittently every few hours, days or weeks of operation?

[Trout]

I recently blew a fuse for my super reverb. I bought 3 amp slow blows and fast blows and tried them both. The slow blow sounded fuller and aggressive. The fast blow sounded and felt more balanced and a bit thinner.
Is there any truth to this.........fuses changed tone? Or am I just hearing things?


Ok, who let the audiophile in here :p

[rockeye]

The slow-blows with the little springs in 'em add reverb . :RoCkIn


And sag , but it only lasts for about 1 chord . :jo

That's sounds about right. You guys should try it...........I notice a difference. Well if you guys can't hear it then its just my crazy little revealed secret.

[trdlasvegas]

I think the NOS ones like "Slo-Blo" sound a lot better than the current new production "Time Lag" ones.

-Tony

[phsyconoodler]

I dunno,I like the new ones with the little beads on them;reminds me of the sixties.the ones with the springs launch real nice out the back when the holder wears out.
On a serious note,you absolutely need to determine why that fuse blew and why you want to put a 3 amp fuse in that amp.If you like lots of smoke when it blows next,then carry on.

[mike80]

I don't know what to think about this.

http://www.ultrasystem.com/usfeaturedprodsFUSE.html


That way you can make sure every single electron makes it safely to your speakers with gold and silver class, instead of the "poor folks" steel and glass route. Like comparing a Lambourgini to a Crosley. :NUTS

[JDJ]

If you have a 2 amp fuse, does it matter whether it's rated for 125V or 250V?

[Blue Strat]

I think the NOS ones like "Slo-Blo" sound a lot better than the current new production "Time Lag" ones.

-Tony

I hear they last longer too!:dude

[Blue Strat]

If you have a 2 amp fuse, does it matter whether it's rated for 125V or 250V?

Not if you're in the US or any location with 125 or less as the line voltage.

[ChickenLover]

I agree with Mike for the Mains fuse...but the HT fuse (if present) is usually at about 400v-500v so I always use 250v rated fuses there (and not slo-blo). That rating comes more into play when it blows because that's when it sees the full voltage across it.

[SarasotaSlim]

I really like all the answers so far but here's what I've noticed with regard to fuse blowing in the last 5-10 years. It does happen a little more often and for no apparent reason. It's a combination of of poorly made tubes (check your rectifier) and lousy fuses. Lastly - it's the power spikes and weird voltage levels. Back when old Fenders walked the earth - voltage was 110. Now it's 120 and it creeps up to 125 and higher. Put all of those factors together and I've been replacing the occasional random blown fuse for no apparent @*!%?&$>< reason as opposed to actually having a reason like a bad rectifier tube or??? I know it's wrong but if my SR takes a 2 1/2 amp fuse - I put in a 3 amp.

[rockeye]

The fuse blew when I had new power tubes put in. Once they were put in and I got home I really pushed the amp for about an hour, then it blew. I replaced it and have since gigged and no problem.

[Blue Strat]

I agree with Mike for the Mains fuse...but the HT fuse (if present) is usually at about 400v-500v so I always use 250v rated fuses there (and not slo-blo). That rating comes more into play when it blows because that's when it sees the full voltage across it.

True. My answer was regarding 2 Amp fuses which never, or rarely, appear for the HT fuses.

[RonnyLee]

I recently blew a fuse for my super reverb. I bought 3 amp slow blows and fast blows and tried them both. The slow blow sounded fuller and aggressive. The fast blow sounded and felt more balanced and a bit thinner.
Is there any truth to this.........fuses changed tone? Or am I just hearing things?

Try putting all new knobs on it. This, along with the fuse change will give an even bigger, fatter tone. :eek: :messedup

[GearHeadFred]

I have a supply of NOS fuses from the 1960's - USA made - all test a '12' on a scale of 1-10. - hurry while supplies last!


* Disclaimer: Just kidding!

[larc]

I recently blew a fuse for my super reverb. I bought 3 amp slow blows and fast blows and tried them both. The slow blow sounded fuller and aggressive. The fast blow sounded and felt more balanced and a bit thinner.
Is there any truth to this.........fuses changed tone? Or am I just hearing things?


Interesting topic!

There's at least one significant amp manufacturer that probably thinks so. His amps are discussed here in the amp forum everyday.

Someone I know heard it himself. He witnessed the amp maker (above) experimenting with different brand fuses. If you ask this guy what he heard, he'll tell you they sounded different.

I never tried it, so I can't say whether I would hear any difference or not.

[rockeye]

Ok you guys are just being assholes..........

[pgissi]

Ok this is too funny, but seriously about fuses

They do grow brittle from the heat and cool cycle over time and can fail from that or they can be this way out of a box. Its like anthing else mass manufactured, your gonna get some lemons.

Now back to the show.....:munch

[larc]

Ok you guys are just being assholes..........

I wasn't joking. My comment was dead serious.

My friend and I were talking about amps and I mentioned how someone here (believe it might've been John Phillips) posted about the fuse being a tone sucker. That's when he told me of his experience working for a particular amp manufacturer. He said they experimented with different brands (fuses) and it effected the tone of the amp.

[mike80]

If fuses have an effect on tone, why don't we hear about it more often? The simple answer: Because they don't. You're trying to say that the 1" of fuse has more effect on the tone than the 5 or more feet of copper power cable?

If you don't believe that, try this simple experiment: If everything in your amp is in *known* working condition, wire your power cable right to your amp, bypassing the fuse. If you hear any tone changes, let us know. but I'm willing to bet that you won't. If your tubes and everything are in proper working order, you have nothing to lose other than a few minutes of your time...and maybe your pride.

[hamfist]

I recently blew a fuse for my super reverb. I bought 3 amp slow blows and fast blows and tried them both. The slow blow sounded fuller and aggressive. The fast blow sounded and felt more balanced and a bit thinner.
Is there any truth to this.........fuses changed tone? Or am I just hearing things?

Some humourous and interesting discussion has followed, as usual. The brain is amazing in how it can perceive differences if it is expecting them.
It's all basically the same as the placibo effect where, when people take medicines, they can feel better even when the medicine is useless, or basically just contains sugar. This only happens when subjective judgements about how we "feel" are concerned, but the brain can be a powerful "deceiver".
What you need to do is to do a blind test, and get someone else to change the fuses in a random order (which you are not aware of). Then see if you can hear a difference - report back. Anything is possible !

[pgissi]

There is only one way a fuse in the current format we know can affect tone, if it introduces enough series resistance to drop the ac voltage down which would mean its going to get real hot and pop, unless designed properly it (the fuses we currently use) will not dissipate the heat.

Beyond that there is no evidence of the current state of fuses affecting tone and maybe that alleged manufacturer who John said were allegedly experimenting with fuses actually were, with fuses that act more like a choke or power resisitor to bring down the ac voltage for a vintage amp.

Everything is up for re-invention and if this is true, this "fuse" will be larger with a heatsink and probably employ some sort of circuit breaker instead.

No more variac

[larc]

If fuses have an effect on tone, why don't we hear about it more often?

Maybe people just don't know?

Along time ago, I posted in a thread, saying rectifier tubes effected tone and stated how different brands had a different sound. Everyone here (except for maybe 2 people) said it wasn't so. Today, more people are commenting they're hearing differences between manufacturers. Yes, there are still those who poo poo the idea. Either they just haven't tried it or they just can't hear it. I love this saying...just because some can't hear differences, doesn't mean others can't.

It's interesting how the OP says 2 fuses sound different. I never bothered comparing fuses myself, but I won't doubt him either.


The simple answer: Because they don't. You're trying to say that the 1" of fuse has more effect on the tone than the 5 or more feet of copper power cable?

The guy never said anything about the fuse having more effect than a power cable. He just told me he heard a difference when they swamped fuses. I don't know what fuses they were comparing either.

[larc]

Beyond that there is no evidence of the current state of fuses affecting tone and maybe that alleged manufacturer who John said were allegedly experimenting with fuses actually were, with fuses that act more like a choke or power resisitor to bring down the ac voltage for a vintage amp.

For the record. John isn't the person who witnessed the amp maker's resistor swapping. It was another guy.

I only mentioned John because I believe he might've stated in some thread (maybe a discussion on power cable effecting sound?) about how the fuse has some resistance...

[mike80]

Maybe people just don't know?

Along time ago, I posted in a thread, saying rectifier tubes effected tone and stated how different brands had a different sound. Everyone here (except for maybe 2 people) said it wasn't so. Today, more people are commenting they're hearing differences between manufacturers. Yes, there are still those who poo poo the idea. Either they just haven't tried it or they just can't hear it. I love this saying...just because some can't hear differences, doesn't mean others can't.

Rectifiers definately have an effect on tone. The specs on a tube will vary from brand to brand. One may put out "X" amount of current, while another puts out"Y". That will have an effect on tone. Tubes are manufactured differently. There's definately more to a tube than there is a fuse.


The guy never said anything about the fuse having more effect than a power cable. He just told me he heard a difference when they swamped fuses. I don't know what fuses they were comparing either.

I know he didn't say anything about the power cord, I was using that as a general reference to everybody who says fuses have an effect on tone.

Here's what it comes down to. If you have, say, 120 volts at one end of the fuse, and 120 volts at the other end, it won't have any effect on the tone. Simple electrical theory says that.

If anybody wants to challenge this, try the experiment I mentioned earlier. Bypass the fuse with the power cable. That will take the fuse completely out of the equation.

[pgissi]

First lets consider this, fusing is on the primary side of the power supply so other than voltage reduction or inadequate regulation and filtering, this is an area where tone is less affected to be described as different versus bad like motorboating, hum, loss of power etc. unless were talking a tube rectifier power supply then the rectifier could just be exhibiting some instability rather than the fuses causing some tonal alteration

But like I said a fuse placing a series resistance with the AC Line voltage would most definately affect tone, its just that there are no conventional fuses that have these properties to an extent that would be audible meaning, the person who claimed to hear a difference is mistaken...

Unless he has a newly designed fuse from some secret r & d lab working on this.

As far as someone working on it, great, the envelope should be pushed as it has been.

[RonnyLee]

Putting all new rubber feet on the amp, or, having it re-tolexed would come closer to affecting the tone than the fuse.........

[larc]

Ok, I quickly compared two 2 amp fuses below and there was a difference. One fuse is from a JTM45, the other a Deluxe Reverb. I tried both fuses in both amps and the characteristics of each fuse stayed the same.

The fuse on the left had more low end. The guitar had a solid feel to it.

The fuse on the right had less low end and the guitar felt like I had lighter strings on it...not sure why; it might've been because there was less low end or perhaps there might've been more sag.

I wouldn't call the difference drastic. Say someone is playing one of these amps and blows the fuse. I doubt that person would realize the sound changed when the other fuse is installed. On the other hand, if you told that person there was a difference, I think it's possible he or she might be able to hear it.

Could I be fooling myself? Maybe.

Both fuses are obviously used and one's probably got more use than the other, so that should be taken into account too.

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc278/punikai_2007/fuse003r.jpg

[jh45gun]

For what its worth on the check why the fuse blew issue that some brought up that does not always indicate a problem!!!!! Fuses can blow just because they are weak or the wrong fuse ect, or maybe a surge ect which is why you need a fuse in the first place. Could be also they get old and blow. The thing is if you replace fhe fuse and it blows immediately or with in a short time that would indicate to me there is a problem. However a fuse blowing could just mean defective fuse. Back in the old days when I was a kid we did not have breakers in the house we had fuses in the electrical panel and at times they would blow for one reason or the other. Replace them and things would be fine. Now this did not happen often but it did happen. Same with amp fuses or any other fused thing.

[phsyconoodler]

Yeah fuses blow at times and there is nothing wrong.
This fuse thing is definitely getting out of hand.I bet there is more difference in tone if the wall voltage changes than if it has one type of fuse or another.I have measured the voltage in an amp at 3pm and it was 117v.Then I checked again at 7pm and it was 123v.The amp for sure sounded different.
Ever notice that one day you can play for hours and you can't get a bad tone,and the next day you can't dial in anything worth while?Sometimes it's fatigue and sometimes it's something else.
Electricity can fool with your head.And your head can fool with you.
As Dr D says,"Those fragile harmonics".
Lots of electrical impulses going off in your head any given moment.
We are more subject to environmental changes in perceptions than an amp is.
so basically what I'm trying to say is,we are all wacked and we need to shut up and play our :crazyguyguitars.

[Rumblefish]

I recently blew a fuse for my super reverb. I bought 3 amp slow blows and fast blows and tried them both. The slow blow sounded fuller and aggressive. The fast blow sounded and felt more balanced and a bit thinner.
Is there any truth to this.........fuses changed tone? Or am I just hearing things?

All that matters is what you hear.Trust your ears.

[gldtp99]

Now different types/brands of freakin' fuses affect tone in some significant way ???
Is this somebody's idea of a bad joke, or what ? Is it April Fool's Day yet ??
When will this "voodoo-mojo tone secrets" pile of BS end ? We are not all a bunch of drooling retards/shivering clueless tone hounds who'll take this BS at face value.
Next we'll have to properly process the air where we play to make sure that the right % mix of gases is present to convey the speaker vibrations to our ears------ or maybe the OP's air is tainted with some illegal substance.


Now i'm going to start changing out fuses in all my amps and all the ones i'll build to make sure i'm using the "toniest" fuse type----- not likely..................gldtp99

[Trout]

Next we'll have to properly process the air where we play to make sure that the right % mix of gases is present to convey the speaker vibrations to our ears

Actually, the Humidity has an impact on tone:D
Dry speaker cones sound different than moist ones. Same applies with tone woods used for making instruments.

you had to bring it up :rotflmao

[pgissi]

Actually, the Humidity has an impact on tone:D
Dry speaker cones sound different than moist ones. Same applies with tone woods used for making instruments.

you had to bring it up :rotflmao


That is correct sir, everything we understand about the audible realm is based on our environment and all sorts of complex physics define the affect of different gaseous properties along with materials of different composition. Its also widely understood as to how temp/humidity affect the propagation of sound waves.

I am not sure as to the specifics but I will bet if you could engineer your gaseous environment in a bubble (along with hard surfaces), you could tailer it to be more audible freq friendly.

Remember in space no one can hear you scream or power chords

Larc, maybe there is another underlying issue with this amp you are swapping fuses with and its just coincidental with you swapping fuses, that would be more likely than a simple fuse.

If you really want to prove it, measure the ac voltage at the line, pre-power suppply and post fuse, after installing each fuse to see if one introduces a series resistance beyond a 1 to 3 volts variation from one another if you use a DVM since they fluctuate slightly as your measuring.

That would be the only way you would hear a difference.

[Trout]

I found that if you get a 16 penny copper nail, clip it to the same length as a fuse, it has better tone than using a steel 16 penny nail, though I admit neither are very forgiving if a tube fails.

And YES, back in 1976 I did this exact thing, and yes it was an expensive repair on a 300W Ampeg SVT. Once the mystery smoke exits the transformer you learn quick to never exceed a 4 penny nail;)

[GearHeadFred]

Were those NOS nails galvanized? Did you re-bias after the swap? :rotflmao :horse

[Groovey Records]

"Distant cousins, we have a limited supply. We can sell them to you by the dozen. Oh my, oh my.

Big eyed beans from Venus. Big eyed beans from Venus.

By way of Omaha!" -Don Van Villet (Captain Beefheart) Clear Spot

EnJoY ThE MuSiC
GrooVey Records

[Pete Cage]

Well, y'see, you have to build yourself a fuse tester.

I've got one on the bench. I put a new fuse in, and crank it up to see if it blows at the right current. Gotta test 'em all, right?

I have a big box of fuses that, um, were good.

[larc]

Larc, maybe there is another underlying issue with this amp you are swapping fuses with and its just coincidental with you swapping fuses, that would be more likely than a simple fuse.

Not sure if you caught it, but I tried both fuses in 2 amps (JTM45 and Deluxe Reverb). Characteristic of both fuses stayed the same in both amps.


If you really want to prove it, measure the ac voltage at the line, pre-power suppply and post fuse, after installing each fuse to see if one introduces a series resistance beyond a 1 to 3 volts variation from one another if you use a DVM since they fluctuate slightly as your measuring.

That would be the only way you would hear a difference.

Thanks, that's certainly great advice; however, I'm not feeling motivated to prove the point further. The difference I heard (if any) was slight and it certainly hasn't motivated me to pick one fuse over the other.

[RedMan]

I found that if you get a 16 penny copper nail, clip it to the same length as a fuse, it has better tone than using a steel 16 penny nail, though I admit neither are very forgiving if a tube fails.

And YES, back in 1976 I did this exact thing, and yes it was an expensive repair on a 300W Ampeg SVT. Once the mystery smoke exits the transformer you learn quick to never exceed a 4 penny nail;)

Also if you have an older home with a fusebox instead of a breaker box you can put a penny in place of the blown fuse. You must remember to put it in so that Lincoln's head is showing and "in god we trust" is visible when you install it tho. :crazy

[AR-305]

Putting all new rubber feet on the amp, or, having it re-tolexed would come closer to affecting the tone than the fuse.........

:YinYang I removed the metal glides off my Fender combo and put rubber feet on it. When it's sitting on the hard wood floor of my living room it no longer seems to couple with the floor as well as it used to and has less low end. :messedup:bkw:bkw I wanted to give my Strat more cluck so I put chicken head knobs on it.:horse

:crazy My tubes were biased too cold so I put my jacket over it and decided to give more consideration to other points of view.
:droolI decided to go wireless but for some reason I've not been able to get any sound out of my amp since.:eek:

When I play my drum machine it sounds so mechanical, but when my drummer pushes the play button it takes on a nice human feel. Really!

I was having trouble getting a great Gilmore tone from my rig. Then my girlfreind suggested putting a blacklight in the studio and some Jimi Hendrix posters. Worked like a charm. It did.