Gibson vs. Hamer... and the winner is??

[Redrider]

I started to look at the Gibson 339 and found the 336/356 line and got GAS really bad. So I go surfing around and the next thing you know I spot a really georgous Hamer Artist Custom.

Their basic consturction materials seems similar, but information on the Gibson is hard to find and the Hamer web site has just a bit too much marketing speak to be truly helpful (what is semi-solid anyway?).

Can anyone compare/contrast these two guitars for me. In the Gibson vs. Hamer fight who is the winner?

[TattooedCarrot]

I'm mostly a Gibson fan and have only owned one Hamer, which was a korina Vector 58 Flying V style and it was fantastic. Hamer almost seems to have a cult following. I know someone who really loves them and swears the fit & finish and attention to detail is far better on the Hamer. They are a small operation too and I think could be compared to sort of a custom shop of production guitars, if that makes sense.

[Killcrop]

I have owned several of both. The set up and fret work might be a little better with the Hamer. I always wonder why so many people say how great Hamer's fit and finish is yet they igore the fact that the finish peals away. They even have a name for it, Hameritis.

[roknfnrol]

I've owned several Hamers, fantastic guitars. I've owned the Monaco Superpro, Monaco Elite, Artist Custom, Artist Korina 390 (3 p90s)... The Artist Custom was my favorite by far followed by the Monaco Superpro. The Artist Custom felt so comfortable to play, the Seth Lover pickups sounded great, and the 59 burst finish was killer.

That said, I sold the Hamer after purchasing a Les Paul. The Les Paul gave me the classic Gibson tone that I was chasing the whole time. Don't get me wrong, I would have kept the Hamers but financially I can't keep $4K worth of guitars laying around and I typically only play one anyway.

Bottom line, you should own both!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v445/ringmod/LesPaul1.jpg

[TattooedCarrot]

I will say that I stay away from Hamers for no other reason than I hate the fugly headstock; shallow, I know.

[bluesjuke]

Hamer (USA at the very least) is great but only a Gibson is a Gibson.

That said the Hamer Vector does a great job of what Gibson should do in reissuing the '58 at a more reasonable price point in the Historic Series.

I have played several Vectors and yes, they are all that!

[Mickey_C]

Hamer guitars have all the vibe of a Les Paul jr to me (and that's a VERY GOOD THING).

I remember when I abandoned my Charvels in the mid-Eighties for Hamer phantoms and steve stevens models.. there was nothing else as good at whatever it was I found so good about them. Then, suddenly, they went the way of big hair...

I think Hamer has models that overlap all over the gibson range, in features and quality. Older USA Hamers are perhaps the biggest bargain online - one day I expect their value to explode - and some have, like the Virtuoso:

http://uk.geocities.com/largeat/gary.jpg

Play them all and find what works for you; I would never summarily dismiss guitars from either Hamer or Gibson.

[rollyfoster]

i'm not big on the hamer control layout or headstock

[devilrob1979]

I have owned several of both. The set up and fret work might be a little better with the Hamer. I always wonder why so many people say how great Hamer's fit and finish is yet they igore the fact that the finish peals away. They even have a name for it, Hameritis.

I have not heard of any Hameritis appearing in years. What's the most recent Hamer you've seen with it? I'm pretty sure that when they moved to CT or even beforehand they got it fixed. They'll also fix it for free if it should happen now. They wouldn't before. I'd take a Hamer over a Gibby any day but I do have to own a LP some day just to have one.

[atquinn]

Well, to answer the original poster's question, the Artist series is semihollow; with a chamber in the upper body of the guitar (where the f-hole is). Don't know about the Gibson (they aren't my thing), but Artists are pretty cheap used on eBay, so you could always get one and then move it if it's not your thing. Internet opinions are no substitute for the real thing.

-Austin

[teefus]

the hamer version of the 339/356, etc, is the newport and newport pro except that the hamers are made out of solid woods and not plywood. the hamer artist is kind of a blend between a hollow and solid-body guitar with the top tone chamber. the hamer earthen guitars have a lower sound chamber too but are still considered semi-hollow, iirc.

[DonW]

With Hamer you get attention to detail in the craftsmanship. With Gibson you get a decent guitar that needs attention to the the details. I own both, I love both but my new Hamers never needed anything off the wall when my new Gibsons did. Also never had a Hamer with Hameritis. Started buyng them in the 90's and have owned over a dozen.

[jads57]

You need to play each and see what feel right to you. I`ve had numerous Hamers(Newports, Superpro,and Monacos) Great guitars! I`ve also had some wonderful Custom Shop Gibsons( Johnny A, Pat Martino,ES-345,etc) also wonderful instruments. I`m currently liking a Hamer Talladega,and a PRS Hollowbody 2. Best of luck on your search!

[rivaeast]

I have owned several of both. The set up and fret work might be a little better with the Hamer. I always wonder why so many people say how great Hamer's fit and finish is yet they igore the fact that the finish peals away. They even have a name for it, Hameritis.

Actually it appears that was a limited issue in the early to mid nineties....usually on the fret edges and neck joint looked like clouding in the finish and in no way affected the way that they play....given the erratic quality I have seen with production gibsons (key word being production ) it's hamer hands down for me.

[jackaroo]

I've never listened to a record and said..."wow that sounds like a Hamer".

I've never been recording and said "this track is in need of the Hamer sound".

I do that all the time with LPs, SGs, 335s, Gretsches, Ricks, Strats & Teles. These are the big tones on our pallette as electric guitarists.

Hamers...

They're very good guitars, but come on now- with a Les Paul, we're talking about one of the icon guitars here. A real sound- folks will say that a Hamer sounds like a Gibson LP, but it isn't. It doesn't feel like one and it doesn't sound like one because it isn't one. Close but no cigar.

That's just my opinion. They're good guitars and a lot of bang for the buck, I'm not knocking them at all, and others may like them more than Gibsons...but get real. The HS is a problem, no nitro finishes, the fret-board is too damn flat most of the time and the body shapes are OK, but derivative. I've used plenty of them and would own one or two AFTER I owned all the classics.

[Masa]

Only you can decide, I guess.

I've bought 4 Hamers in my life, and I still have 3.

I've bought 6 Gibsons, and I have only 1 now. The one I still own is a Historic. The other Gibsons I didn't keep weren't Historics. I didn't even keep them over 6 months. They weren't very good.

[straightblues]

(what is semi-solid anyway?).


The Artist is solid on the bottom part of the guitar (EBG strings) and semi hollow on the top (EAD strings). It is a fantastic guitar. It give you some of the softness of a semi hollow but still give you the bite of a solid body for soloing. It has a sound similar to a thick Gibson SG. It can do jazzier sorta stuff but it is a rocker at heart.

I own two, a P90 and a Humbucker version. They are both great guitars.

The sound clips I have heard of the 339 definitely sound more 335ish to me. Whereas the Artist is more SG'ish with softer rounder bass notes.

[Brien]

I've never played a Hamer that I thought was really cool. I've played a lot of Gibsons that were really not that cool. I've played some other Gibsons that I thought were extremely cool. So....If you get the right Gibson, their recipe really works.

[harryjmic]

I think the Hamers built from the late 90's to present smoke almost every Gibson. There are some dogs to be sure but at least Hamer can spray the entire guitar and it doesn't look like a bunch of dust particles fell into the finish while it was drying (Les Paul's in particular).

The Hamer control layout is far superior to a Gibson, almost every Gibson turns into mudville once the tone control is set below 5; with a Hamer you can use the entire range. Another nice feature is the volume bump when going from 8-10, this is much like a Fender and really nice for soloing.

I think the latest Hamer's with the inlay on the headstock are stunning, overall I guess I appreciate Hamer more because the actually take the time to make a nicer instrument rather then a quick buck.

[Lex Luthier]

Hamer is making some fantastic instruments these days, my brother has bought a few killer Hamers recently. But, remember that a Hamer is a Hamer, not a Gibson. Hamers have their own thing going on, try various examples of both brands and go with what works for you.

[moozak]

I have owned several of both. The set up and fret work might be a little better with the Hamer. I always wonder why so many people say how great Hamer's fit and finish is yet they igore the fact that the finish peals away. They even have a name for it, Hameritis.

actually, this has been fixed... so it's no longer an issue. also, i've played "plenty" of gibsons have have done the very same thing.

i own quite a few hamers... i love them. i still love gibson guitars as well... but there are some things that hamer does during their build process that you just don't get with gibson... and i just happen to like those things.

is a hamer a gibson? no... but a fender isn't either... nor is PRS. i just like hamer guitars because of how they play and feel.

[slider313]

I was looking for an SG for some time and the ones I played weren't doing it for me. I tried the standard,'61 reissue and historic and more than just one of each version. I do have an R8 which I love but I wanted a good double cut with 'buckers. Even the PRS McCarty's and Custom 22's didn't do it for me. I found a great '96 Hamer Special FM and this is one great guitar. The neck is straight and true and the fret work impeccable. I got it with 10's and they felt like 9's. I use 11's on it and it plays like most guitars play with 10's. One of the best guitars made today at any price.http://photobucket.com/albums/b376/slider313/sfm1.jpg

[GTRJoe]

I got deeply into Hamers about 10 years ago. At one point I had 9 of them. Great guitars no doubt. But I bought a Historic Goldtop off a friend of mine and that guitar had the tone I'd been chasing for a long time. None of the Hamers quite did what that Goldtop does. The one that came closest was an Artist with Seth Lovers. At this point I no longer own any Hamers. The Hamers were fine guitars, but ultimately not exactly what I wanted.

[straightblues]

I own a historic Gold Top and several Hamers as well. Hamers do have their own sound. It is a great sound, but not the sound that you have heard on a million records. If you want the tone heard on a million records, you need to buy a Les Paul, Strat or Tele.

[Redrider]

Thanks for the iformation fella's. I know there is nothing like putting your hands on them but where I live these models are extremely scarse, so all your feedback helps.

Let me take a second and clarify one thing - I am not comparing the 339 to the Artist, I was asking about the 336/356 which is decidedly different than the 339. The 339 is a fully laminate with solid center block and the 336/356 is solid maple & mahogany, which is more similar to the Artist model.

None the less, Thanks to all for their contributions input.

[teefus]

the problem with gibson is that they haven't made good guitars since '59 or so. that is the high-watermark and has never been breached. off the shelf gibsons usually require work at the set up shop. filing fret ends, fixing tuners, fixing binding issues, finish flaws, etc. even the high end custom shop vos stuff requires a ridiculous amount of work for such an expensive guitar. every hamer i have played/bought has been set up perfectly at the factory. the hameritis is not all that common and i haven't seen it on new hamers in quite a few years. as far as the hamer sound i would liken it to most gibson style guitars since they are an homage to the classic gibson era since hamer started as a gibson repair shop. hamer has a lot of industry firsts one of which was a stock peter green pickup set up on some of the early ones. some people just can't get past the headstock not having the "g" word on it and are definitely in it for the "look".

[MikeMcK]

One more piping in to say "get the Hamer". I've had 2 dozen Gibsons over the years, and some were really nice guitars. I currently have 1 (a '59 Junior) and 4 Hamers.

I feel like I'm repeating myself because I just responded to a similar post, but some people can't past the fact that Hamer doesn't really do endorsement deals, so you don't see them highlighted as often as Gibsons.

On the other hand, when you see known player with a Hamer (look closely and you'll see them) you know he or she spent money on it rather than being paid. TO me, that's a much more credible endorsement.

[atquinn]

I've never listened to a record and said..."wow that sounds like a Hamer".

I've never been recording and said "this track is in need of the Hamer sound".

I do that all the time with LPs, SGs, 335s, Gretsches, Ricks, Strats & Teles. These are the big tones on our pallette as electric guitarists.

Hamers...

They're very good guitars, but come on now- with a Les Paul, we're talking about one of the icon guitars here. A real sound- folks will say that a Hamer sounds like a Gibson LP, but it isn't. It doesn't feel like one and it doesn't sound like one because it isn't one. Close but no cigar.

That's just my opinion. They're good guitars and a lot of bang for the buck, I'm not knocking them at all, and others may like them more than Gibsons...but get real. The HS is a problem, no nitro finishes, the fret-board is too damn flat most of the time and the body shapes are OK, but derivative. I've used plenty of them and would own one or two AFTER I owned all the classics.

O.k...

[jtees4]

I have owned both, in fact I like them both BUT one look inside the control cavity tells you the quality of the Hamer.

[doug 25]

anyone know if the artist custom? (can't remember the earlier model name, the earlier solid body, with body binding, neck binding and CROWN inlays) was ever available with a fat/chunky/rounded profile neck?, I own a Gibson les paul std dc, a really nice guitar let down only by the skinny 60's profile neck, doug.

[sw686blue]

anyone know if the artist custom? (can't remember the earlier model name, the earlier solid body, with body binding, neck binding and CROWN inlays) was ever available with a fat/chunky/rounded profile neck?, I own a Gibson les paul std dc, a really nice guitar let down only by the skinny 60's profile neck, doug.

Hamer's neck profiles are the vintage (chunky) and modern (not so chunky :)). The majority coming out of the CT factory these days are the chunky carve.

[Zhangliqun]

Haven't made good guitars since '59 huh? Somebody needs to come try my R9. I like Hamers and would be a Hamer man if there was no Gibson, but no Hamer can touch this baby in looks, feel, playability or tone.

[teefus]

Haven't made good guitars since '59 huh?


that seems to be the benchmark, right? anyway, remember the norlin "pig years" with the 14lb lp customs. after 59-60 they have had more bad years than good. sandwich bodies, dirty fingers pickups, 20 years of reissues not being able to get close, selling out signature models for just about any up and coming (soon to be in the "where are they now file") "heroes, etc, etc. admit it, it's all about "the look", right? it can't be anything else.

my cousin has a vos and i have played it. it's o.k. until you hear the price.

[Karmateria]

Man, you can't argue with the brand recognition and artist roster of Gibson. It's just like a Harley, there are plenty of better bikes out there, but none are Harleys. It's all about image image image.

As far as being able to tell a LP on a recording... that's just ignorant. I got into an argument with a guy who is a LP player who SWORE that Jimmy Page used a LP on Zep's first album, because "only a Les Paul sounds that thick". Most people know he used a tele on that record, so go figure.

[buffbiff21]

I got into an argument with a guy who is a LP player who SWORE that Jimmy Page used a LP on Zep's first album, because "only a Les Paul sounds that thick". Most people know he used a tele on that record, so go figure.
Ironically his tone on LZI is thicker than on LZII and onward studio recordings, and guess which era he was using his LP.

His live tone however is perfect. Chunky enough, with plenty of Marshally bite.

[cmatthes]

This is one of those arguments that will not be resolved by armchair internetting! You'll really have to try both yourself somehow, because what is right for some people isn't going to work for others. Les Paul said years ago at a show that you should play blindfolded when shopping for a guitar. Pick the one that moves your ears, hands and heart more than the flashy one that catches your eye - that's the one you will make the most music with. The eyes are far more easily fooled.

[Weasel]

I own the third Hamer Sunburst made, in fact it's more of a prototype...great guitar, although it does suffer the infamous Hamer finish peel.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f374/jabel54/Hamer-1.jpg

[el greco]

Try to find a Hamer Newport Pro and play it. It's good...
http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/images21000-21999/ugb21588-hamernewportpro/

[JimH]

If I got my hands on a new Gibson and new Hamer with no preconceptions about what it's supposed to look/sound like I'd go Hamer. But arguably Hamers are takes on Gibson designs and if they're what you really want then nothing else will do. If you're not bothered about 'nailing' a Gibson tone or look and just want a good guitar I think Hamers are great options.

[oscar100]

hamers are well put together but tend to have v flat radius nex that i dont get on with

[MuseCafeChris]

That's why I go with the Standard (Explorer) and Vector (V) - Headstock just fine. I know the quality, but haven't been able to pull the trigger on another Hamer style due to the headstock. I honestly would have been ok with it probably if I never read the internet. But so many people say "boat oar" that it's in my head now. Stupid internet...

The opposite happened to me. I was dismissive about the Hamer headstock until I read someone on the internet say it's supposed to resemble a cobra's head if you were looking straight down on one. Maybe that'll cure you like it did me LOL!

Regarding the Hamer-itis bit, I love the mid-to-late '90s double cuts and every one I've owned (a total of 3, 2 of which I still have) has had this issue. I'm a big Hamer fan but not an apologist; it's pretty lame for such a thing to happen to a high-dollar, USA-made guitar. The condition seems isolated to that time period, though, and of course it doesn't affect tone or playability. In fact, it's probably why they can be had so cheaply.

[humbuster]

The winner is............ all of us.

We get to choose from 2 US manufacturers who make great guitars.

[DavidE]

I own a bunch of Hamers (and PRS and Gibson...) and my two favorites are my Newport (orange sparkle with Phatcats and Bigsby) and my Artist Custom:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f61/deidelberg/Hamers%20General/SalmonBlushArtistCustomFullFront.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f61/deidelberg/Hamers%20General/SalmonBlushArtistCustomFullFront2.jpg

[The Golden Boy]

I used to own one Hamer. A white pearl "Prototype." It looked cool- as I remember it sounded cool, it just didn't feel right- it wasn't comfortable to me.

[Derwood]

I feel like I'm repeating myself because I just responded to a similar post, but some people can't past the fact that Hamer doesn't really do endorsement deals, so you don't see them highlighted as often as Gibsons.

On the other hand, when you see known player with a Hamer (look closely and you'll see them) you know he or she spent money on it rather than being paid. TO me, that's a much more credible endorsement.

Didn't Rick Neilsen use to have an endorsement deal, with all his checkerboard Hamers?

[brentrocks]

I will say that I stay away from Hamers for no other reason than I hate the fugly headstock; shallow, I know.

people say that about Heritage too...its too bad because Heritage is such a great guitar, but i think the community is starting to realize it

[jtees4]

I have owned several of both. The set up and fret work might be a little better with the Hamer. I always wonder why so many people say how great Hamer's fit and finish is yet they igore the fact that the finish peals away. They even have a name for it, Hameritis.

The Hameritus was cured, I believe when they moved to CT in 1997. It's true many of the older Hamers had it. It turned out to be oils from the rosewood getting out behind the laquer on the side of the neck. Not sure how they cured it but supposedly they did. You are right, I love Hamers, but technically this was a big defect.

[HHB]

I had a 2003 w/ Hameritis from the CT shop, a bummer

[jtees4]

I was looking for an SG for some time and the ones I played weren't doing it for me. I tried the standard,'61 reissue and historic and more than just one of each version. I do have an R8 which I love but I wanted a good double cut with 'buckers. Even the PRS McCarty's and Custom 22's didn't do it for me. I found a great '96 Hamer Special FM and this is one great guitar. The neck is straight and true and the fret work impeccable. I got it with 10's and they felt like 9's. I use 11's on it and it plays like most guitars play with 10's. One of the best guitars made today at any price.http://photobucket.com/albums/b376/slider313/sfm1.jpg

I agree. I had two Hamer Special FM's which I sold a few years ago only because I had surgery and was having back problems. I just bought a Hamer Studio which is on the way to me as we speak. I have bought and sold 100's of guitars over the last few years...I keep coming back to Hamer. The quality amazes me. I mean...look in a Gibson Control cavity and then look in a hamer. I am not knocking Gibson either...I like them...but the truth is the truth.

[jzucker]

who cares guys? Play what you like. They're both great. Why does everyone feel the need to be a winner?!?

[joejazzguitar]

I have both a Hamer Artist Custom, a Hamer Newport and a 339, and have played a few 336's.

The Artist Custom is, to my ears, a little more tonally balanced than the 336; the 336 sounds a lot like a Les Paul with both an extended bottom and an extended top. The Artist sounds less "scooped" to my ears. FWIW, I still have the Artist and don't think I'd ever trade it for a 336.

Not dissing the 336 at all - just saying that my personal preference is for a more balanced tone, and the Artist Custom gives it to me.

The Newport definitely has more of a hollowbody tone than does the 339. I plan on keeping both since, to me, they cover very different tonal territory.

Also - I currently have four Hamers, and a student of mine owns six Hamers, and none of them show any signs on "Hameritis"...which leads me to believe that they fixed the problem.

Hope that helps....
joe

[MikeMcK]

Didn't Rick Neilsen use to have an endorsement deal, with all his checkerboard Hamers?

Yeah, there were a couple over the years, some big discounts and some free guitars. I could be wrong but I don't think they ever did a "pay to play" deal like the bigs.

Frankly I think Jack had the best advice, though: play what you like and be grateful we have these choices to make.

[supar6]

I don't think anyone who has posted had the intentions of having a "winner" or "loser" as if they did well... they are freaking HIGH. There is no winner or loser. I like Gibsons but have an issue with the cost of them... not to say they aren't worth it but they are expensive for being a mass produced guitar.

On the other hand Hamers are also expensive but you can find a used one for the dirt. Plus most the time they are really well built and require minimal setup. I think MOST will concur with the fact that Hamer is a really well built guitar for a really good price "used". On the other hand no matter how many Hamer fanboys there are out there it doesn't change the fact that it's still a Hamer and will likely never have the following of Gibson and they shouldn't. Gibson is an icon. Hamer isn't.

It's give and take laides... Even-FLOW! For me this thread was more like which one do you prefer. I know this is the 1,000,000 time this has been asked but it's still always interesting.

I like Hamers. Cheaper. Better built (my opinion). Not everyone kid and his sister wants one. ALthough Joel Danzig is creepy.

[Redrider]

Once again I have to thank everyone that has given their opinion, it is through the opinions of others that I have decided to search these models out. Both have been presented with good selling points and some less desirable points. Because here in the middle of the California central valley there are not many shops that carry many of this calaber of guitar.

Gibson has some QC issues and the Hamer is most noted for the flat fretboard radius and no amount of discourse will substitute for putting hand on the wood. They both seem worthy of the hunt.

P.S. Everyone has their own winner... mine is undecided at this point.

[Brian D]

I own a bunch of Hamers (and PRS and Gibson...) and my two favorites are my Newport (orange sparkle with Phatcats and Bigsby) and my Artist Custom:

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f61/deidelberg/Hamers%20General/SalmonBlushArtistCustomFullFront.jpg

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f61/deidelberg/Hamers%20General/SalmonBlushArtistCustomFullFront2.jpgBeautiful guitar, and I'm sure that applies to the sound as well.

[jyantzer]

I've owned several Hamers, fantastic guitars.... The Artist Custom was my favorite by far
That said, I sold the Hamer after purchasing a Les Paul


As the proud new owner of the Artist Custom I can tell you it is a wonderful guitar and competes well with my '61 335. This Hamer is a sweet guitar that I can take outside of the house without worry.

[Bluedawg]

Once again I have to thank everyone that has given their opinion, it is through the opinions of others that I have decided to search these models out. Both have been presented with good selling points and some less desirable points. Because here in the middle of the California central valley there are not many shops that carry many of this calaber of guitar.

Gibson has some QC issues and the Hamer is most noted for the flat fretboard radius and no amount of discourse will substitute for putting hand on the wood. They both seem worthy of the hunt.

P.S. Everyone has their own winner... mine is undecided at this point.


Just remember the hunt is a big part of the fun.

I love Gibbies myself, but I'm also a sucker for a good LP knockoff. Besides my Gibson LPs, I also have a Collings CL and a PRS McCarty. If a salesman put a Gustavsson, Huber, Thorn, or Grosh LP knockoff in my hands it would be difficult for me to walk away without it.

If it hadn't been for the Collings I would have picked up a Hamer myself recently. A shop in Mesa, Az was dumping their new Hamers at cost in January. I just couldn't bring myself to spend the cash after getting the Collings last fall.

Good Luck

:dude

[devilrob1979]

I have owned both, in fact I like them both BUT one look inside the control cavity tells you the quality of the Hamer.

I couldn't agree more:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c381/semperrob/Guts.jpg

[PierreL]

As the proud new owner of the Artist Custom I can tell you it is a wonderful guitar and competes well with my '61 335. This Hamer is a sweet guitar that I can take outside of the house without worry.

I have an Artist Custom as well, your comment is interesting as I'm thinking about buying an ES 335 like at some point. Would you say that they kind of overlap ?

[jtees4]

I don't think anyone who has posted had the intentions of having a "winner" or "loser" as if they did well... they are freaking HIGH. There is no winner or loser. I like Gibsons but have an issue with the cost of them... not to say they aren't worth it but they are expensive for being a mass produced guitar.

On the other hand Hamers are also expensive but you can find a used one for the dirt. Plus most the time they are really well built and require minimal setup. I think MOST will concur with the fact that Hamer is a really well built guitar for a really good price "used". On the other hand no matter how many Hamer fanboys there are out there it doesn't change the fact that it's still a Hamer and will likely never have the following of Gibson and they shouldn't. Gibson is an icon. Hamer isn't.

It's give and take laides... Even-FLOW! For me this thread was more like which one do you prefer. I know this is the 1,000,000 time this has been asked but it's still always interesting.

I like Hamers. Cheaper. Better built (my opinion). Not everyone kid and his sister wants one. ALthough Joel Danzig is creepy.

I agree completely. I failed to mention in my previous posts that I've bought all my Hamers used. They are great bargains (have one on the way). I like Gibsons, but am not willing to pay the price for the name. I had bought a 2002 reissue non reverse firebird...I've always wanted one since I had an original 66. It was a great guitar BUT I sold it and so far have bought three guitars with the money...one is a Hamer Studio. I just couldn't justify the price.

[sears]

I personally feel a big difference between Hamer's 24.75" scale and the 24.625" of the Gibsons I have played. Laugh all you want. I prefer the Gibson scale.

[MuseCafeChris]

I personally feel a big difference between Hamer's 24.75" scale and the 24.625" of the Gibsons I have played. Laugh all you want. I prefer the Gibson scale.

First I've heard of that.

[Phil M]

Gibsons aren't 24.75? I think you may be mistaken, or weren't specific enough. Is there a certain model that you own that is 24.625?

[Shredmonster]

I have owned both and played lots and lots of each. Had an original Gibson Firebird - the model with only one pick up.

For a long time my fav guitar was a Gibson SG.

I prefer Hamer. This is coming from a Jackson guy so I have no bias here.

IMO Hamer definitely without a doubt has better quality. I believe the neck on Hamers extends into the body farther than Gibson. Every Hamer I have seen, played and owned have been top notch in fit, finish and quality.

I played a Studio the other day that had CRUSHING TONE! And it articulate - way better than any Les Paul I have ever heard.

The 80's shredders were superb guitars. Gibson has never had anything like 'em.

I think the claim that if you want to sound like a record you have to have this guitar or that guitar is total B.S. The best sounding Strat I have ever heard was a Hamer Daytona a couple years ago. Just awesome.

Second, I don't like to sound like a copy of anybody else. I want my own tone and sound. I find it pathetic when other people want to be a carbon copy of someone else.

Third with all the options in equipment these days its pretty easy to get the sound you want with almost any guitar.

[morlll]

I can't get used to 3 in a row knobs. I probably could but don't have to.

I've a nice Les Paul and a nice bluesbird. Oddly both are from 96, quality is fine on both, one was new the other was used. I paid more than a Hamer for both. I'm happy with them.

I have played a set with an American Hammer and it's a great guitar, except for the knobs as mentioned above.

The Guild Bluesbird is a severly underated guitar.

[whatmeworry]

I've never listened to a record and said..."wow that sounds like a Hamer".

I've never been recording and said "this track is in need of the Hamer sound".

I do that all the time with LPs, SGs, 335s, Gretsches, Ricks, Strats & Teles. These are the big tones on our pallette as electric guitarists.

Hamers...

They're very good guitars, but come on now- with a Les Paul, we're talking about one of the icon guitars here. A real sound- folks will say that a Hamer sounds like a Gibson LP, but it isn't. It doesn't feel like one and it doesn't sound like one because it isn't one. Close but no cigar.

That's just my opinion. They're good guitars and a lot of bang for the buck, I'm not knocking them at all, and others may like them more than Gibsons...but get real. The HS is a problem, no nitro finishes, the fret-board is too damn flat most of the time and the body shapes are OK, but derivative. I've used plenty of them and would own one or two AFTER I owned all the classics.


That could be said for ANY guitar that is not a Gibson or a Fender.
There are Lots of 2 humbucker pickup guitar ( brands/style ) or 3 single coil ( brand/style) guitars that you probably couldn't tell the difference in a blind listening test. I believe most of the tone comes from the players hands.
WE buy with our eyes more than our ears - otherwise we'd all be playing the same color guitar ; )

Those are benchmark tones for those pickup/body type/configurations.
I've never heard of a Vinetto,Suhr,Kramer,Moore,PRS,Reverend,Koll, insert Boutique builder name here___________________ tone either.
Had one of those guys built the guitar that Clapton used on the Bluesbreakers album it would be the refernce sound.
Bottom line - play what makes you happy. Page looks/sounds just as cool with his Dan-o as he does with his Les Paul - maybe even cooler!!
AS F. Zappa said time to " Shut up and play yer guitar"

[jackaroo]

Not true-

There are signature sounds for sure. There's a lot more to it than just PUs and wood type. A Tom Anderson Tele sounds so much different than a Fender. My Kramer sounds different than my strat. So many variables go into it that it's not even worth getting into. I also feel I play differently depending on bodyshape and how a guitar hangs or sits on me. SG vs LP?- both two humbucker guitars that bring out totally different style of music in me, largely due to ergonomics.

There's is a difference to me as a player... Listening to playback is different than playing and feeling inspired by the instrument. But one hand does wash the other. I'm not talking about being able to say I can hear this or that off of someone else's record. That's not the point. The point is getting into it and getting the music made.

BTW- on several occasions I've used Hamer's in the studio. I like them. But when I used the Hamer, it was being used as a "Gibson" LP junior, or as a LP sound. They're not they're own thing to me, or if they are, I've yet to recognize it's signature sound. They are a good alternative for some folks, and as I said- they do represent a great deal-especially on the used market.

I too believe that the majority of the tone is in the player, note choice, technique etc... but to discount the instrument itself? Sorry, I just disagree. I've owned several Tom Anderson guitars- They both sounded a lot different than the Fenders I own (tele and strat) was it a usable alternative? Yes. That might work for some folks. It didn't go that way for me but... whatever.

I don't understand...one poster above. I don't see what's wrong about using a particular instrument as a springboard for the right part on a record. When I'm doing sessions, if I've got the right amp and the right guitar, the parts come so much easier than having to make do etc...

As for being "Pathetic" that's nice way to put it. In my line of work, oftentimes I need to sound like an old Buck Owens record, or Jimi Hendrix record or etc...and so while it may be pathetic to you, my clients find it relieving and satisfying that I can cover a lot of ground tonally. And put those sounds in quotes so to speak. One of the things that helps me do that is having the right tool for the job. I'm glad you've found your voice with your Jackson. Me...I'll have to make do with these old Gibsons, Fenders, Wurlitzers etc I guess.

Get what you want, that is in your budget and concentrate on what you play, not what you play on.

[cmr415]

With Hamer you get attention to detail in the craftsmanship. With Gibson you get a decent guitar that needs attention to the the details. I own both, I love both but my new Hamers never needed anything off the wall when my new Gibsons did. Also never had a Hamer with Hameritis. Started buyng them in the 90's and have owned over a dozen.

Word. I love the Gibson vibe etc.. but I've seen far too many shoddy Gibson guitars of late that will seriously make me think twice (more like six) about ever getting a modern Gibson. I know the custom shop stuff is nice, but I dont think a company should charge a premium for consistency. :NUTS

[Secret Ingredient]

I own a historic Gold Top and several Hamers as well. Hamers do have their own sound. It is a great sound, but not the sound that you have heard on a million records. If you want the tone heard on a million records, you need to buy a Les Paul, Strat or Tele.

I mean no offense, but I absolutely don't understand this attitude. When the first solidbodies started being released, I bet there were plenty of Luddites who said "it's not the sound you hear on all the great records, get yourself a hollow guitar". The guitar sounds coming from the 60's heavy rockers were certainly different from the 50's tones. If those seminal rockers had listened to comments like those Hendrix and Clapton et al would have sounded like Buddy Holly. Open those ears, folks!!

[swimrunner]

I mean no offense, but I absolutely don't understand this attitude. When the first solidbodies started being released, I bet there were plenty of Luddites who said "it's not the sound you hear on all the great records, get yourself a hollow guitar". The guitar sounds coming from the 60's heavy rockers were certainly different from the 50's tones. If those seminal rockers had listened to comments like those Hendrix and Clapton et al would have sounded like Buddy Holly. Open those ears, folks!!Good post.

[Oakley]

I love my 335. I especially like the tonal variations in the neck/bridge toggle position with either volume control rolled off a little more than the other. My Hamer Moanco Superpro can't produce those sounds.

OTOH, the Monaco has a much tighter, crisper sound with either pickup soloed. There's a lot more string-to-string definition than with the 335. That's especially good for comping jazz chords on the neck pickup. I can't help thinking it has something to do with the solid maple top versus the 335's laminate.

Then too, it depends on the pickup. The original Tim Shaw's in my 335 are the absolute worst HB pickup I have ever used. The Antiquities sound good in there.

And the Duncan Custom/Custom-Custom combo in the Monaco didn't make it for me. I like the Seth Lovers. I've tried a lot of pickups in both guitars.

[Carl_Tone]

Monaco is 25 scale = tighter, crisper etc.

[atquinn]

Monaco is 25 scale = tighter, crisper etc.

Incorrect. The Monaco, Monaco III, and Monaco Superpro are 25.5" scale. The Monaco Elite is 24.75".

-Austin

[Guitarzandstuff]

I like em both. I have migrated to Gibsons due to resale value I suppose.

I still do have one Hamer Standard left tho..

:banana

[supar6]

Gibson.

Hamer makes a great guitar, but I prefer the look, feel, and tone of a Les Paul. I sold my Hamers and used the money to buy more Gibsons.

You mean... sold the Hamers to buy A Gibson? :crazy

[devilrob1979]

Gibsons aren't 24.75? I think you may be mistaken, or weren't specific enough. Is there a certain model that you own that is 24.625?

Gibson has used both 24.625 and 24.75 scales on their guitars throughout the years. They refer to both as 24 3/4 even though one is obviously 24 5/8. He's not mistaken.

[Lex Luthier]

I measured 3 recent Hamers today, and they are all 24.562" (24-9/16") scale, which ironically is what some Gibsons used as a 24.75" (24-3/4") scale.

[69 Sound]

This thread is interesting to me, as some who owns Gibson, Hamer, Fender and other brands of guitars.

What I find most interesting is that a number of people refer to the "les paul" or "strat" sound as has been heard on countless recordings, but who among us can collectively say what "that" sound is?

In my personal experience, every les paul or strat I have ever played sounds a little different. Sure they have similarities, but no more so IMO then any other solid body instrument of similar a design.

Like a number of other people have already posted, try them all and play what you enjoy. Or if your in a position to do so, buy them all and be able to choose what your in the mood to play.

One thing about Hamer and their sound... To my ears (and this applies to all Hamer's I've played) They seem to have a slightly more forward midrange to them, with cleaner high's and a richer harmonic content. Some people like this and some people don't.

What it really boils down to is - Play what you like, and like what you play, so long as your playing no one can tell you that your wrong.

[bluegrif]

If you can try before you buy, then it's a no-brainer. Play both and buy the guitar that you prefer. If you're buying sight unseen, you'll stand a far better chance of getting a guitar without annoying flaws (both cosmetic and playability) by going with a Hamer.
A couple of years ago I bought a Gibson Flying V Custom. Since I was buying a high-end Custom Shop instrument I expected to get a guitar with excellent fit and finish and superb playability. Wrong. It is a beautiful guitar and I still have it, but there were a number of little construction and finish flaws. And the fretwork and overall setup was just barely good enough to be playable. After a $150 trip to my luthier it now plays and sounds great. By contrast, I bought a Hamer Monaco from a dealer in another state and my luthier has never even seen it. I did do a pickup swap, but that was a purely personal preference. There was nothing wrong with the stock Duncans. It played and sounded great as soon as I pulled it from the shipping box and tuned it up. Just a great guitar.
About six months later I got the chance to buy a brand new Les Paul Standard at a crazy low price. This one I did try in the store. It was definitely one of the better ones I'd tried as far as overall fit and finish and it played pretty well, though not nearly as buttery smooth as my Hamer. I bought it and tried it awhile but ultimately decided it would have to go to my luthier for the full treatment (fret level and dress, overall setup) if it was going to play smoothly in every position. I bailed and sold it for about what I paid for it. If I didn't have the Monaco, I probably would have spent the extra money to get the LP put right.
My take is most modern Gibsons just don't stand up to the ones made before the mid to late sixties. Hamers seem to be built as well as the old Gibsons. Even bought new they're a bargain when you consider the price of a new Custom Shop Gibson.

[sears]

I measured 3 recent Hamers today, and they are all 24.562" (24-9/16") scale, which ironically is what some Gibsons used as a 24.75" (24-3/4") scale.

When I had a Hamer, I held it up first fret-to-first fret and the rest of the frets didn't line up. I didn't measure but the Gibsons were shorter.

It's absolutely a personal preference thing. The "squeeze" to get them into tune is slightly different than for a Gibson.

[Tone Loco]

Try to find a Hamer Newport Pro and play it. It's good...
http://www.buffalobrosguitars.com/images21000-21999/ugb21588-hamernewportpro/


I've got one in the emporium...

[slider313]

If you look at players like Santana,Dickey Betts or Johnny Winter,they sound like themselves regardless of which guitar they're using. I've seen Santana with an SG,Les Paul,Yamaha SG and his PRS. I'll bet most couldn't tell what guitar he was using on the recordings.