Major Change In Emporium Use: Please Read!

[Brian Scherzer]

Only Supporting Members (used to be called Contributing Members) are allowed by the software to start threads/ads in the emporium areas. For information about Supporting Membership please click on the link below:

What are subscriptions for Supporting Membership? (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/tgphome.php?pageid=Supporting%20Membership)

[Brian Scherzer]

In preparation for the storm of protest that may or may not happen, I'd like to explain our reasons for such a significant change.

In December I wrote in an announcement that there were big changes ahead due to the substantial growth of our membership. In less than 5 months after writing that, we have added about 6000 new members, which led to a need to double our server capacity and bandwidth. I proposed several ways to raise money back then and the membership stated that they didn't want banner advertising, but felt that a membership fee would be acceptable. We didn't want to impose a mandatory fee just to belong to TGP, but donations failed to meet our costs in 2 of the last 3 months. That led to serious discussions between Scott and myself as to how best to change how we raise money.

The costs of keeping TGP online today are five times what they were in the first year of the website. Yet, our method of raising money remained exactly the same....depend on members to donate. This worked well until the past year. Some of the statistics were alarming to us. In brief, less than 8% of all members have ever donated anything to help TGP meet its costs. In other words, the brunt of the financial burden fell on a relatively small group of people. To assure our future existence, we needed a better "business model". With the membership having voiced their disagreement with us adding banner advertising, we made the decision to look at our data.

We recently reviewed data that showed that more than 2/3rds of all ads placed in the emporiums were by members who have never donated to the website. When we looked further into the data, it became apparent that many of the members placing ads had "0" or very low post counts (posts in the emporiums do not add to a member's post totals). What this said to us is that there are a lot of people who join TGP to sell items, but who have little desire to participate in our online community. It would seem that their membership is based on wanting to sell to our members. This makes sense, since TGP has almost 30,000 gear hounds! Yet, if those members are benefiting financially from joining, but take up bandwidth and add to our costs, it seems fair to ask them to share in meeting those costs.

We waited as long as we could to make changes in how we raise money. Based on recent donation patterns, we needed to act now. None of us like the change, but it is necessary if TGP is going to be on the internet in the future. We looked at subscriptions being charged by other large discussion sites and we found a wide range of prices. Sites that allow advertising were either able to avoid subscriptions, or were fairly reasonable in cost. Other sites charged as much as $35 a year for their subscriptions that allow members to place ads in their "for sale" areas. Scott and I wanted to be as fair as we could. We don't want to gouge members, so we even set up a one month subscription that costs $5 for members who may only have one or two items to sell each year. Annual subscriptions start at $12.....which is equal to $1 a month.

We also took a look at which software functions took up the most bandwidth or put the greatest stress on our servers. The vBulletin search function was the biggest cause of slowing the servers due to the intensity of doing searches on such a large database. The database is made even larger by having to store Private Messages. We decided to offer the TGP Google search (only searches TGP posts) for regular members (this does not cause performance problems for our servers) and to reserve the vBulletin search functions for Supporting Members......having improved the search capabilities of our software. Also, we are allowing Supporting Members to have greater PM box capacities, since they are helping the website meet its costs.

In summary, the changes we have put in place today may not be popular with some members, but they are vital for us to continue to be online. I'll take the brunt of whatever criticisms you might have, since this was a decision that I pushed for.

[jimfog]

Totally cool.....and I think the bulk of us support whatever direction you decided to go with, Brian.

Just a quick question...........are past donation grandfathered in, or are we starting to keep track, as of today?

(edit....never mind...I can see the answer by my new title)

Again.....whatever is totally fine.

Thanks!

[mudslide]

Thank you folks for a great forum!

I've been a Contributing Member, but just sent you $50 for Gold Membership via PayPal.

Thank you Brian!

--Rocco

[Elmer]

Great idea, I like it.

[Chuck Snider]

apparently past donators like myself are not grandfathered in..

Edit... My grandfatherness has been located.. I'm reinstated...

[Matt F]

This is a fantastic idea.

Thanks for the great site :)

[mlongano]

Good decisions Brian...keep up the great work.

[trisonic]

I think it is a good move, Brian.
I must be rather odd being a Contributing Member who's never sold anything on the Emporium since joining (although I have bought exactly one item).

Does this avoid the "ten cent" Contributing Member too?

Best, Pete.

[TimBascom]

This is totally reasonable in my opinion.

I support your decision 100%

[lxm]

I get the $ issue. Not being able to search the emporium is not cool IMO.

[bluessyndicate]

The logic is very well laid out....congrat's on the forward momentum.

[bizzwriter]

Protest? No way. GREAT idea! Love it!

:BEER

[decay-o-caster]

Access to TGP members to sell gear has to be worth something - I'm in favor. Thanks again for all you guys do to create and sustain a community despite overwhelming odds!

[slipbeer]

:AOK

Good plan, me likey.

[Brian Scherzer]

Chuck............Anyone who donated in the past should have had the title of Contributing Member. We just completed a lot of work on some of the functions, so it's possible that a glitch somewhere changed your status. Please PM or email me with when you donated and I'll do a PayPal search for the donation. We certainly don't want to leave anyone out who had donated.

[trisonic]

Hmm......it seems my previous donations mean nothing either as I have a message saying "Become a Supporting Member" - what gives?
Ooops, my post crossed with yours Brian....

Best, Pete.

[scottlr]

I have no criticism at all for this. I personally procrastinated donating for a long time, for no good reason, until this last server situation came up. I am unemployed (job outsourced to India, and a college student at age 52) and I can afford to give $10. My wife might have been a little miffed, but she got over it quickly. She gives to the Quaker local Friends her parents go to, but never goes herself. And that is a lot more than $10.

So, a question. As a contributing member, do I have to make an annual donation to maintain the ability to list in the Emporium? I do plan to do that, but I am just curious. This place rocks. I can't imagine my life without it. I have no musician friends locally these days. TGP feeds my needs to communicate with my peers.

[gkoelling]

This is a great idea, Brian. It will help you and Scott in the long run and the only people who will complain are those who don't contribute.

There's always craigslist for those who only sell.


Thanks

[G&L Player]

I've been a Contributing member also, just sent $50 for the gold. Keep up the good work guys!!!

[edwarddavis]

Great Idea , I am all signed up. Its the least we can do to help you guys out .
thanks for all your Do .
Ed

[AaeCee]

Good! Hated seeing guys with 0 posts posting things for sale.

[Flyin' Brian]

Sounds like a very fair and thought out plan. You guys are a class act. And I just updated my subscription....what a bargain.

[DaveF]

The only gripe I'd have is the disabled search feature for non-paying users. I'd suggest maybe a more limited (couple of minutes between searches?) version still be available.

[jimfog]

The only gripe I'd have is the disabled search feature for non-paying users. I'd suggest maybe a more limited (couple of minutes between searches?) version still be available.

Nah...Search uses a LOT of the server's resources. Good idea to make 'em pay.

[bpd_103]

Good deal, Brian. I like it much better than ads. Goes without saying I guess. This will also help me to remember to contribute as I tend to lose track.

[Brian Scherzer]

Pete.........All Contributing Members were grandfathered into the Gold Supporting Member category. In your case (and others), if you changed your title to a custom title, that custom title is still there......but you have all of the perks of the Gold Supporting Member group. In fact, if you still have a custom title, it is ONLY because you are a supporting member!

[odourboy]

I don't have a problem with this. I just hope the Emporiums remain a healthy, vibrant marketplace.

Will we get a notice when our 'subscription' is about to expire?

[dkaplowitz]

...All Contributing Members were grandfathered into the Gold Supporting Member category.
Kick ass!

Good luck with the changes, Brian, et. al.!

[odourboy]

BTW - VERY clever marketing to give all current contributors 'Gold' status for the first year! :BEER

[DaveF]

Is the avatar feature coming with the new software or is it available now? Are you sticking with vbulletin and just getting a newer version?

[aleclee]

Is the avatar feature coming with the new software or is it available now? Are you sticking with vbulletin and just getting a newer version?You should have an "Edit Avatar" in your User CP.

[Facemelt]

Sounds like a good plan to me. People are still free to enjoy the community which is what brought me here and keeps me here. Tons of useful knowledge is shared here as well as inspiring posts! Thanks!

Hey, isn't there a raffle going on right now too? I was going to enter it even though I already donated recently for the server change. Just curious if everyone that is donating for the emporium privilege is automatically entered in that drawing?

[leviathan]

Nah...Search uses a LOT of the server's resources. Good idea to make 'em pay.
The problem i see with the disabled search is now that people can not search they will post new threads much more often when a thread just like it is on page 5, just a thought.

[Cody]

Good! Hated seeing guys with 0 posts posting things for sale.
Can't say that I hate it (I don't have a ton of posts myself) but I'd be hesitant to deal with someone with zero posts. With the new rules, I'll know that I'm not dealing with a drive-by seller.

I spend a lot of time on the Les Paul Forum, where you have to be a subscriber to post Classifieds. Works well there, and I have no doubt that it will work here too.

:BEER

[trisonic]

Pete.........All Contributing Members were grandfathered into the Gold Supporting Member category. In your case (and others), if you changed your title to a custom title, that custom title is still there......but you have all of the perks of the Gold Supporting Member group. In fact, if you still have a custom title, it is ONLY because you are a supporting member!

Sorry, Brian, my post crossed with yours - it time I made another contribution anyway.........Thanks, Pete.

[Dickie Fredericks]

Excellent!

[DaveF]

You should have an "Edit Avatar" in your User CP.


Seems to be not enabled for me yet. It would be right on the left in the cp near edit profile, etc. right?

[Johnny Alien]

I just donated. Small price to pay for a cool place that I have slowly been trying to be a part of. I like to contribute to great sites but sometimes I need a kick in the butt.

[archtopjazz]

Great idea and keep up the good work.
It is much appreciated.

Jim

[aleclee]

Seems to be not enabled for me yet. It would be right on the left in the cp near edit profile, etc. right?Give it a try now. ;)

[RiseofRock]

wow... I never pictured this place as an avatar wielding forum.

[DaveF]

That did it. :D

[DaveF]

wow... I never pictured this place as an avatar wielding forum.

You can disable the display of avatars in your cp if you'd rather not see them.

I'll probably be doing this since I do much of my browsing on my phone.

[Trout]

This is a great Idea!!

I have never felt comfortable buying in the emporium prior to these changes.

But now that guys have to invest in the privilege it lends to credibility in some ways.
Great Job Guys!!

[Brian Scherzer]

Dave.........See one of my posts about people with custom titles. You have the same perks as someone listed as a Gold Contributing Member. I believe, based on the spelling of your user title that you changed it. If you were not now in the Gold Supporting Member group, you would no longer have a custom title.

To whoever asked, we're not sure if the software sends a reminder at the end of a year. Alec and I are a bit toasted at the moment from the planning and work that it took to make the changes. Ask in a couple of weeks when the emails and PMs have slowed down and we'll take a look at how notification might work.

[webs]

Would it be possible to get something like a "lifetime subscription?"

[scottlr]

Kick ass!

Good luck with the changes, Brian, et. al.!

OK, how'd you do the Avatar? Avatars for contributing members is a cool idea, imho. Some folks don't like them, but I think as long as they aren't obnoxious, they are cool. That looks like a young Frank Zappa :)

[MarkL8]

Great idea guys just upped my membership to gold. Not only is this a great informative forum but as someone who works from home its also my morning chat around the water cooler. Thanks to you guys and all the mods for the work you do to make this place available.

[dkaplowitz]

OK, how'd you do the Avatar? Avatars for contributing members is a cool idea, imho. Some folks don't like them, but I think as long as they aren't obnoxious, they are cool. That looks like a young Frank Zappa :)
mid-career (ca. 1978-79, iirc) ;)

It's in userCP, right on the left. You'll see. Pretty easy to figure out, much harder to pick a good avatar that looks okay on the blue....still working on mine. :D

[mountain blues]

Well done, guys. All positive changes to me.

[onemind]

I think I had contributed in the past, but didn't mind a very moderate yearly fee.

[Gasp100]

I'm in!!! About time too, almost 1200 posts...
:BEER

[90wreck]

Thank you!

[Rayneman]

Cool in my book.

[KeithC]

Good idea. Fair idea!

[bc-cosmo]

Totally a good move. That's my piece of the storm of support.

[rgsss14]

Great idea!

TGP......:BEER

[newking70]

great.

[FlyingDutchman]

Sounds like a great idea to me..Nothing but a positive.

[newking70]

will this also apply to dealers?

[TravisE]

Good call guys. I'm sure the emporium will be a safer place for it. I'll be making another contribution soon. It's been about a year, I think.

[Dave Orban]

Probably a long time coming... ;)

[johnnyguitar]

Good move....

[mge80]

You can disable the display of avatars in your cp if you'd rather not see them.


Thank goodness for small favors......

[2leod]

:dude

[scottlr]

mid-career (ca. 1978-79, iirc) ;)

It's in userCP, right on the left. You'll see. Pretty easy to figure out, much harder to pick a good avatar that looks okay on the blue....still working on mine. :D

Cool, My LP will do for now.

[trumpus]

Great idea guys!

I've been a member for over 2 years, and always meant to become a contributor - this was a much needed push! I just wish I could have contributed more (but my paultry resident's salary barely supports me!).

Brian

[fenderbender4]

Good call. It seems only fair considering the huge influx of people, which is always good, but can also lead to abuse that is hard to manage due to time constraints and other resources.

I've got to say, $50 is more than reasonable for the top of the line membership. I'm sure there are people who have made triple that off of stuff in the emporium.

Hope the mods don't get inundated with negative messages or such.

[frankencat]

Cool!

[John Hurtt]

Long overdue, Brian.

[whoismarykelly]

I just paid to become a supporting member. I think it would be a good idea to post the revenue that results from this change in policy. Could you tell us how much has been garnered for maintaining the community in the 24 hour period after the change. A week would be nice too.

[Bantha]

I just became a supporting member for the first time...should have a long time ago...thanks for the kick in the nads to remind me.

[esoteric pete]

im proud to be a gold supporting member, and a part of this site.

im with ya guys, along with all the others.

[thiscalltoarms]

if I go silver now, can I change it to Gold in a few months when I have more cash around? is the upgrade fee just the difference, or will I have to buy a whole new gold subscription?

do gold members have all the same old search functions as normal?

[Trout]

Ahhhh I got my avatar, now I feel like Me again :)

[Rock72]

I'm in on this one. Never had any problems on the Emporium, and I'm sure this new move will prevent that from happening. I would have done this purely to support the running of a great site.

Cheers,
Christian

[Gasp100]

I just paid to become a supporting member. I think it would be a good idea to post the revenue that results from this change in policy. Could you tell us how much has been garnered for maintaining the community in the 24 hour period after the change. A week would be nice too.

I think that could get messy. They haven't shown us how much money they've spent/lost keeping the board up for this amount of time, nor the amount of sheer time in man hours they have spent running this place for all of us for so long.... Just sayin'

[iaresee]

You can't see 'New Posts (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php?do=getnew)' without paying. That pretty much kills usability for the non-paying users. On all other accounts this is a reasonable move. But that decision is going to kill non-paying user contributions on account of navigating the abudance of posts on this forum just got significantly harder for them. That's my prediction at least...

[rogue.guineapig]

I get the $ issue. Not being able to search the emporium is not cool IMO.

+1. I can't even edit the posts I've made to update them.

[whoismarykelly]

They actually do post the costs of maintenance and the amount of money in the TGP account on a yearly basis.

[Bulldog]

Makes me happy.

:band

[Chris T]

:agree

[dave s]

I'm shocked that only 8% of members have supported the site financially. That's a real shame.

Keep up the good work Brian, Scott and team. You guys provide a world-class site for us.

dave

[Brian Scherzer]

Is the avatar feature coming with the new software or is it available now? Are you sticking with vbulletin and just getting a newer version?

We are going to the new version of vBulletin that has some incredible new features. We need to wait a little while because I think I have burned Alec out from getting all of the stuff done for the changes we just did. I'm not ready to discuss the new features because we have to see what they look like in real life first, and we also have to decide which features we will allow. I'll just say that we were impressed when we read about the new version!

To everyone..........People are posting faster than I can respond, and I'm already tired. Please forgive me for not answering every question on this thread. Someone asked about silver membership and then going to gold. We have no mechanism that would allow the software to set you up for the difference. Please read what the differences are between silver and gold membership at this link:

http://www.thegearpage.net/new_index.php?pageid=Supporting%20Membership

[BarryJ]

I'm in - and admittedly long overdue, too. As you can see by my meager post count, I don't have a ton of time to offer information (and I'm usually taking information when I'm here) - so 12 bucks is a mighty tiny price to pay for what I get out of this place.

Dirt cheap, IMO

[Trout]

Question,

Maybe I missed this already, But Avatars, Many sites I belong to do not allow advertising in the avatar, Is this something to expect here also?

I know it is more to police, but the issue arose on few sites because of a few vendors that paid for ad banners and the non-subscribers avatars were free.

Edit, let me rephrase, Not Non-Subscribers, I meant none paying advertisers. I know we do not actually have ad banners, but advertising is still advertising

[Ted L]

:cool::dude

[chewynodoubt]

this is BS. I have been a member for a long time. I have had many awesome deals. Now I have to pay to take advantage of what I've been doing for years. this is like my job taking my benefits away...not cool. I am with John Suhr...time to look for a new board

[amigo30]

I think it's a fine move. I'd never buy anything from somebody with a 0 post count anyway, and I've always hated seeing their stuff in the emporium.

[Johnny Alien]

this is BS. I have been a member for a long time. I have had many awesome deals. Now I have to pay to take advantage of what I've been doing for years. this is like my job taking my benefits away...not cool. time to look for a new board

Seriously. $12 for a whole year to sell stuff is nothing. You will pay ebay more than $12 for one guitar sale.

[Lintybits]

Don't think it's a bad idea, but it raises a question. Does this change bring any sort of buyer protection with it?

Let's say I'm a paying member who gets ripped off by another paying member; is TGP assuming any responsibility for that transaction?

[Dave Orban]

Don't think it's a bad idea, but it raises a question. Does this change bring any sort of buyer protection with it?

Let's say I'm a paying member who gets ripped off by another paying member; is TGP assuming any responsibility for that transaction?No, and why would you expect it to?

[Dave Orban]

this is BS. I have been a member for a long time. I have had many awesome deals. Now I have to pay to take advantage of what I've been doing for years. this is like my job taking my benefits away...not cool. I am with John Suhr...time to look for a new boardHey, start your own board... see just how much fun it can be!

[chewynodoubt]

Don't think it's a bad idea, but it raises a question. Does this change bring any sort of buyer protection with it?

Let's say I'm a paying member who gets ripped off by another paying member; is TGP assuming any responsibility for that transaction?

exactly if this is a move to protect buyers and sellers then there should be some protection implied if not.....

[Dave Orban]

exactly if this is a move to protect buyers and sellers then there should be some protection implied if not.....I think this is being done more to offset the escalating cost of running internet day care for the HC castoffs that have infected this place with bad attitude.

[chewynodoubt]

Seriously. $12 for a whole year to sell stuff is nothing. You will pay ebay more than $12 for one guitar sale.

thats not the point....the beauty of the internet is 'FREE' and convenient. If the boards need money do like everyone else and sell advertisement, I don't mind, and there would be a ton of guitar related sponsors interested. If anyone should be forced to pay it should be the retail emporium

[DaveF]

exactly if this is a move to protect buyers and sellers ....

It was a move to fund the board. Do you think a place like this just pops up on it's own, without money or donated work/time from the people who run it?

[iaresee]

I think it's a fine move. I'd never buy anything from somebody with a 0 post count anyway, and I've always hated seeing their stuff in the emporium.

We all started at zero posts. I've done a few fine deals with zero posters. And someone did a guitar swap with me when I was at a low post count. I appreciate the trust. This doesn't change the appearance of new member for sale threads. It just verifies they had $12 to their name.

[TimBascom]

thats not the point....the beauty of the internet is 'FREE' and convenient. If the boards need money do like everyone else and sell advertisement, I don't mind, and there would be a ton of guitar related sponsors interested. If anyone should be forced to pay it should be the retail emporium


Who ever said the internet was "free"?

Your computer cost money...your DSL, cable modem, or phone line cost money.

Certainly not "free" in my book.

[whoismarykelly]

I think this is being done more to offset the escalating cost of running internet day care for the HC castoffs that have infected this place with bad attitude.

Thats a very negative attitude for you to have.

[KCWM]

Sense of entitlement rears its ugly head.

It's not like your benefits are being taken away, because when you get benefits at work, you're WORKING to be eligible for those benefits. If you don't want those benefits, you choose not to pay for them. Most companies do not cover the cost of benefits for their employees. While some do...most don't.

As was pointed out...griping about $12 a year is fololish. Eat something at home 3 days out of the year that you'd normally eat out, or buy off brand when you'd normally buy name brand for a week, and it evens out.

[Johnny Alien]

thats not the point....the beauty of the internet is 'FREE' and convenient. If the boards need money do like everyone else and sell advertisement, I don't mind, and there would be a ton of guitar related sponsors interested. If anyone should be forced to pay it should be the retail emporium

Bandwidth and increased users is what costs money. My guess is more activity is generated through the Emporium sections than any other including the Retail Emporium. And since anyone selling or trading is benefiting by the use of the board than a small contribution is not uncalled for.

And plenty of internet sites aren't free especially those that generate sales for a user. Like I said ebay is a great example. Feel free to use Craigslist it's still free.

[Trout]

thats not the point....the beauty of the internet is 'FREE' and convenient. If the boards need money do like everyone else and sell advertisement, I don't mind, and there would be a ton of guitar related sponsors interested. If anyone should be forced to pay it should be the retail emporium


Do you sell on ebay?

If so, the sale of (1) $850.00 item costs you $31.06, then add in $24.95 in paypal fee's. Your a gold member investing 1 sale!

Anyone that sells should find that reasonable.

[dkaplowitz]

this is BS. I have been a member for a long time. I have had many awesome deals. Now I have to pay to take advantage of what I've been doing for years. this is like my job taking my benefits away...not cool. I am with John Suhr...time to look for a new board
Good bye! I can't say I'll miss anyone who's gotten what I've gotten out of the emporiums here who can't spare $12/year to keep it. I've saved hundreds of dollars buying stuff here much cheaper than ebay. I've also dealt with really personable guys, and a few really terrific people that were so awesome to deal with. Buying and selling here is so much different than the fear, apprehension and watching my back I deal with when dealing on ebay. O yeah, I've paid ebay hundreds and hundreds of dollars since joining in '98-'99.

[Zilmo]

Wow. The complaining slays me. Pony up or shut up. Sheesh.

[Gasp100]

this is BS. I have been a member for a long time. I have had many awesome deals. Now I have to pay to take advantage of what I've been doing for years. this is like my job taking my benefits away...not cool. I am with John Suhr...time to look for a new board


See ya!

:munch

[chewynodoubt]

Do you sell on ebay?

If so, the sale of (1) $850.00 item costs you $31.06, then add in $24.95 in paypal fee's. Your a gold member investing 1 sale!

Anyone that sells should find that reasonable.

no I don't use ebay for that reason

[chewynodoubt]

See ya!

:munch

you don't have to be a d***head about it. I am just expressing an opinion which is still legal here I believe.

[leviathan]

I mean i can't complain i guess, i do not use the boards enough to pay, but I really think killing the search was a bad idea. Most of the time when i am new to a board i am there looking for something and i find it through the search. Now i can't search for people to PM or for anything really anymore. The google search is just not that great. If i was new here and just trying the boards out i would move on cause i would think its not navigable. I know the search eats up the computers but i would not even mind if you could do one search every 5 minutes or thirty or even an hour. Other than that i have no real problems at all with the new rules.

[RAILhead]

GREAT decision!

[Mr. Kite]

The changes are cool, thanks for the great site!

[Gasp100]

you don't have to be a d***head about it. I am just expressing an opinion which is still legal here I believe.


Me too...

:mob

[Tonefish]

See ya!

:munch

making the world a better place, already! :YinYang





$12/year....come on!

[chewynodoubt]

Good bye! I can't say I'll miss anyone who's gotten what I've gotten out of the emporiums here who can't spare $12/year to keep it. I've saved hundreds of dollars buying stuff here much cheaper than ebay. I've also dealt with really personable guys, and a few really terrific people that were so awesome to deal with. Buying and selling here is so much different than the fear, apprehension and watching my back I deal with when dealing on ebay. O yeah, I've paid ebay hundreds and hundreds of dollars since joining in '98-'99.

don't worry, I'll pay. I just needed something to complain about. I guess the cost of gas going up at an exponential rate has me a bit edgy

[madsr]

it's not asking too much IMO. If people are so hung up on not paying anything to sell items then have a yard sale. I like the rule, it will weed out a lot of people who come here only to sell.

[fender23]

Well, not that you need to hear it, but you've got my support 100%. Hell, I pay $100 a year to belong to a shooting range I've not been to in 3 years, and $125 for a social club that I've never been to. I'd do a lot to not have pop-ups and advertising on this site.

Keep up the good work fellas!!

[Lintybits]

No, and why would you expect it to?

I don't expect anything, just a question. I understand the costs of hosting and whatnot, seems that if I'm being asked to provide some financial support there should be some support in return.

Doesn't mean I won't pay to retain the privilege of selling here, didn't see it mentioned anywhere and thought it was important.

[chewynodoubt]

I am officially a supporting member...financially speaking I guess

[Jim Soloway]

It's a great idea and one that probably should have come a long time ago.

EDIT: And the avatars are very cool. Thanks.

[schaljo]

Maybe I'm stupid. I just contributed yet have no privelages. What did I miss???

[lxm]

i think you will see a large decrease in gear for sale which could REALLY stink :(

i dont get why people are bashing people that have a problem paying to post on a site that was free a couple hours ago. $12 dollars ins't alot but im interested to see what kind of money this produces for TGP. i think the annual fee could and should be less. IMHO :BEER

[Brian Scherzer]

We are very clear about the fact that we can't and won't take responsibility for transactions on TGP. It is stated in our rules and on the header for the emporium areas.

[Gasp100]

making the world a better place, already! :YinYang





$12/year....come on!

Sorry, I just see this steam rolling out of control for a while until things settle down and I don't see the point in trying to beg people to stay either. I work for a hosting company and I know the costs associated with running this type of gig. I feel the base membership is more than fair, especially for those of us (me included) who have had the privelage of buying AND selling in the emporium for quite a while.
I guess my post or retort was a little short but really, I don't see the big deal. I also felt using "this is BS..." and then calling me a "d**khead" for adding my comments were just a tiny, tiny bit out of line but whatever...
:BOUNCE

[amigo30]

exactly if this is a move to protect buyers and sellers then there should be some protection implied if not.....

If you don't want to pay anything, don't pay. There's still a ton of site here for you to enjoy. All of that for a cost of exactly NOTHING. Whining about it and looking for loopholes is crass. These mods do a lot of work for your benefit, with little in return.

If you want to enjoy all access, good. Pay your 12 bucks. What's that? Less than the cost of a CD, less than the cost of dinner for 2 at McDonalds, for a whole lot of content. You can sell your expensive stuff without posting fees. You can buy stuff that is usually better quality for a lot less money than you can on ebay. What do you want for your 12 bucks? A guarantee that every private transaction is risk free? Do you really think thats reasonable for 12 bucks? I usually try to be polite if I say anything at all...but this kind of pathetic attitude makes it difficult.

[schaljo]

Maybe I'm stupid. I just contributed yet have no privelages. What did I miss???


Anybody?

[coreybox]

Sorry if i missed it..... but what is the 'grandfathered' thing?

I've contributed before... what status (silver/gold/basic) did that put me in, and how long is that status going to last?

I looked in my user CP area, but I couldn't find any sort of status indicator.

[skeeterbuck]

I just signed up and glad to do it. :AOK

With all the thinkgs I've learned here I just wish I had the money to go gold but for $12 a year it's a no brainer.

[whoismarykelly]

As subscribers or investors, will we get a clear breakdown of the TGP budget on a quarterly basis?

[schaljo]

I just signed up and glad to do it. :AOK

With all the thinkgs I've learned here I just wish I had the money to go gold but for $12 a year it's a no brainer.

I'm with skeeterbuck. I contributed.....I think? Help?!

[aleclee]

I've contributed before... what status (silver/gold/basic) did that put me in, and how long is that status going to last?Gold / 1 yr

Anybody?When paypal "tells" TGP that they got your money, your status changes. You might want to go back and double check the status on the transaction.

[Jason_86_951]

Works for me. Great idea!

[John Carson]

I just contributed as well

I like to sell and buy but I have tended to spend more time in the general info threads as well. Tons of information here if you want it!

[coreybox]

Gold / 1 yr

Ha yeah, I was looking in the wrong place. I found it right after I asked!

thanks though,
Corey

[Brian Scherzer]

i think you will see a large decrease in gear for sale which could REALLY stink :(

i dont get why people are bashing people that have a problem paying to post on a site that was free a couple hours ago. $12 dollars ins't alot but im interested to see what kind of money this produces for TGP. i think the annual fee could and should be less. IMHO :BEER

We tried doing what you suggested for several years by simply asking people to donate......even $1. When only a small group of members helps out with donations it leaves no choice but to do this. We discussed this in December on a thread in the Pub and made announcements in December that were visible until a week or so ago about what we needed. The majority of members who responded on that thread asked us not to do advertising and to simply charge a fee for membership. We didn't even go that far! TGP is still free for anyone who doesn't need the search function provided by vBulletin or needs to place ads in the emporiums. I will again emphasize that we TRIED not to have mandatory fees for anything for several years....and it didn't keep up with the costs that happen when lots of people join and want everything for free. Truly, besides giving up my time doing the stuff I do here, should I also pay thousands of dollars a year out of my own pocket so that other people can sell things and make money? I'm not sure that I agree with that kind of logic, although I might if someone else was footing the bill!

[chewynodoubt]

Sorry, I just see this steam rolling out of control for a while until things settle down and I don't see the point in trying to beg people to stay either. I work for a hosting company and I know the costs associated with running this type of gig. I feel the base membership is more than fair, especially for those of us (me included) who have had the privelage of buying AND selling in the emporium for quite a while.
I guess my post or retort was a little short but really, I don't see the big deal. I also felt using "this is BS..." and then calling me a "d**khead" for adding my comments were just a tiny, tiny bit out of line but whatever...
:BOUNCE

sorry I called you that. I think your remark was just as sarcastic as mine. but don't worry i am a 'supporter' now officially (although I have been a supporter for the past few years already, just not financially) and have no problem standing behind my initial opinion. If you want my phone number or vice versa, I have no problem talking any of this out 'man to man'.

My point in these matters is this is where it starts, $12 this year and then fewer and fewer people come back, eliminating riff raff, agreed as well as buyers who now find the board inconvenient, especially those who don't use paypal. Yes it generates income, but am unsure how many others will follow suite....

[Turbo Gerbil]

As subscribers or investors, will we get a clear breakdown of the TGP budget on a quarterly basis?

Geez people... it's $12 bucks to help keep the site running. You are not investing. Do you get a quarterly report from Guitar World or any other subscription services you use or magazines?

I rarely use the emporiums or hang out here as much as I used to, but it finally got me off my butt to contribute, which is something I should have done a long time ago. In fact, I just made a "contribution run" to all the forums I use that I haven't contributed to, even if I don't get some "benny" for doing it.

Maybe the "Pub" should be part of the subscription site. That would probably make it worth visiting the pub more often again.

don't even care if by some miracle TGP generated a "profit"... maybe Brian and Alec et al could take their long suffering wives out for dinner. ;)

[Tonefish]

Sorry, I just see this steam rolling out of control for a while until things settle down and I don't see the point in trying to beg people to stay either. I work for a hosting company and I know the costs associated with running this type of gig. I feel the base membership is more than fair, especially for those of us (me included) who have had the privelage of buying AND selling in the emporium for quite a while.
I guess my post or retort was a little short but really, I don't see the big deal. I also felt using "this is BS..." and then calling me a "d**khead" for adding my comments were just a tiny, tiny bit out of line but whatever...
:BOUNCE

Not aimed at you....I just think that $12/year minimum is not much and it beats the heck out of ads and the benefits of the emporium should help the page anyway. It will all work out well in the end....the admins are on the right track to keeping this community healthy.

[Seditious]

Protest? Hell no! This is probably the best idea I've heard of for this site.

[madsr]

Don't think it's a bad idea, but it raises a question. Does this change bring any sort of buyer protection with it?

Let's say I'm a paying member who gets ripped off by another paying member; is TGP assuming any responsibility for that transaction?
that's kind of ridiculous to ask for, being that the fee is $12/year. I mean really, if it's not worth 12 bucks a year for one to just even come to this board never mind use it to make money, than maybe those users should move on.
this is BS. I have been a member for a long time. I have had many awesome deals. Now I have to pay to take advantage of what I've been doing for years. this is like my job taking my benefits away...not cool. I am with John Suhr...time to look for a new board

I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to do business with someone who's gonna bitch about paying 12 bucks a year for the opportunity to make unlimited transactions.

Bottom line is this IMO... you're not going to have any more protection from deadbeat buyers/sellers from this change... but you are going to have this board to come to and enjoy in the future. Any members who are unwilling to pay the $12/year for that opportunity should go elsewhere or learn to deal with the limited use of the site's features.

[amigo30]

As subscribers or investors, will we get a clear breakdown of the TGP budget on a quarterly basis?

Where did you get the idea that you were an "investor"? Are you expecting a quarterly dividend?

[III]

It's funny how the selling fee is the smallest fee... but seems to be getting the most flak. To get a custom title or avatar a year from now is where the real money gets laid down. Ironic.

[chewynodoubt]

that's kind of ridiculous to ask for, being that the fee is $12/year. I mean really, if it's not worth 12 bucks a year for one to just even come to this board never mind use it to make money, than maybe those users should move on.


I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to do business with someone who's gonna bitch about paying 12 bucks a year for the opportunity to make unlimited transactions.

Bottom line is this IMO... you're not going to have any more protection from deadbeat buyers/sellers from this change... but you are going to have this board to come to and enjoy in the future. Any members who are unwilling to pay the $12/year for that opportunity should go elsewhere or learn to deal with the limited use of the site's features.

PLEASE everyone read under my name it says 'SUPPORTING MEMBER" don't whine at me anymore, I paid... now be quiet and get back to playing guitar

[DaveF]

It's funny how the selling fee is the smallest fee... but seems to be getting the most flak. To get a custom title or avatar a year from now is where the real money gets laid down. Ironic.

No kidding. It would cost $5 to sell something. Beats fleabay.

[grego7]

Just curious - when does this go into effect? Will you guys (mods) be deleting all emporium ads that are currently posted by non-contributors?

[whoismarykelly]

Where did you get the idea that you were an "investor"? Are you expecting a quarterly dividend?

To bad there isn't a clear 'irony' smiley that I could show you.

[madsr]

PLEASE everyone read under my name it says 'SUPPORTING MEMBER" don't whine at me anymore, I paid... now be quiet and get back to playing guitar

who's whining?.. read your first post again and you'll have the answer.:AOK

[tone4days]

love it - thanks to you all for making it happen and for keeping this place up and going

t4d

[newking70]

I think that could get messy. They haven't shown us how much money they've spent/lost keeping the board up for this amount of time, nor the amount of sheer time in man hours they have spent running this place for all of us for so long.... Just sayin'

As subscribers or investors, will we get a clear breakdown of the TGP budget on a quarterly basis?

this is a PRIVATE BOARD, ERGO IT'S NONYA BIZNESS.:horse

[chewynodoubt]

who's whining?.. read your first post again and you'll have the answer.:AOK

sorry I was mistaken, I forgot my opinions don't count, even though I am a supporting member. Thats why everyone jumped on me b/c I wasn't a contributing member. Now I am and have every right to voice my opinion about a site I am helping fund, correct?

[schaljo]

I donated ( as soon as the money clears from my checking) I just hope down the road, "gold" members will still do business with me. I've had nothing but great transactions here and hope to have many more. I may not have the gold title, but I do use my real name!!:BOUNCE

[amigo30]

To bad there isn't a clear 'irony' smiley that I could show you.

Usually I'm pretty good at picking up on irony. Sorry if I missed it in your post.

Pathetic, stupid, argumentative whining is one of the least appealing traits in humankind, and I think I still had the stench of stupidity on me from some of the previous posts.

[lxm]

Truly, besides giving up my time doing the stuff I do here, should I also pay thousands of dollars a year out of my own pocket so that other people can sell things and make money? I'm not sure that I agree with that kind of logic, although I might if someone else was footing the bill!

No, you shouldn't have to pay money out of your pocket. It seems this new pay to play implement will produce a good ammout of profit for TGP. I'm saying the fee should be there. Thats cool. What you do is great. I just think it could/should be less.

In response to your last comment. I dont think people are "making money" selling in the emporium. Usually a break even at best.

Bests

[whoismarykelly]

this is a PRIVATE BOARD, ERGO IT'S NONYA BIZNESS.:horse

See post #146

[PrestonBrick]

The problem i see with the disabled search is now that people can not search they will post new threads much more often when a thread just like it is on page 5, just a thought. Yeah i know. Why cant we see the threads we posted?

Im going to send my money in thursday when i can pay my dad and use his credit card

[amigo30]

sorry I was mistaken, I forgot my opinions don't count, even though I am a supporting member. Thats why everyone jumped on me b/c I wasn't a contributing member. Now I am and have every right to voice my opinion about a site I am helping fund, correct?

You have every right to voice an opinion whether you contribute or not. If it's a poorly thought out opinion that you've voiced, you should expect to be called out on it when participating on an internet forum, whether you contribute or not. It really is that easy.

[RobertMiller]

Regarding the fee - :agree

Cause lately around here - :horse:mob

I miss the old vibe - :BEER:band

[chewynodoubt]

seriously guys all ill-tempers aside ( I am fuming about gas prices and this is the proverbial tip of the iceberg for me. I have apologized where needed)

Do you think this will generate the funds needed to continue to run TGP or will it run most people off? Serious thoughts.

[Brian Scherzer]

Folks (everyone)..........I could have very easily closed the thread on the PUB, which is what I did on every other topic area. I left this one open to allow people to have their say. I expected far more criticism than has happened (so far) and would just ask people to not argue with each other about the subscriptions. Some people will not like the idea and they may choose to leave TGP. We knew that this could happen and figured that the worst that would occur is that there would be fewer members. I can live with that or with people disagreeing with our policies. I still believe that this is a good thing for TGP, but maybe not for all of the members.

[Lintybits]

that's kind of ridiculous to ask for, being that the fee is $12/year. I mean really, if it's not worth 12 bucks a year for one to just even come to this board never mind use it to make money, than maybe those users should move on.

I don't know about you, but I certainly wouldn't want to do business with someone who's gonna bitch about paying 12 bucks a year for the opportunity to make unlimited transactions.

Bottom line is this IMO... you're not going to have any more protection from deadbeat buyers/sellers from this change... but you are going to have this board to come to and enjoy in the future. Any members who are unwilling to pay the $12/year for that opportunity should go elsewhere or learn to deal with the limited use of the site's features.

jeez, it was a simple question, Brian answered it a few posts back. I don't disagree with it, just something I thought about when I read the post about the change.

[Dave Orban]

seriously guys all ill-tempers aside ( I am fuming about gas prices and this is the proverbial tip of the iceberg for me. I have apologized where needed)

Do you think this will generate the funds needed to continue to run TGP or will it run most people off? Serious thoughts.I suspect that MOST people will remain.

[phretbored]

thats not the point....the beauty of the internet is 'FREE' and convenient. If the boards need money do like everyone else and sell advertisement, I don't mind, and there would be a ton of guitar related sponsors interested. If anyone should be forced to pay it should be the retail emporium

The beauty of this board is that it is one of the most (if not THE most) kick @$$ advertisement free gear communities on the web.
And the beauty of this community is that the majority of the members truly care about this place warts and all IMHO.
I have no doubt whatsoever that the members here will eagerly step up to the needs of TGP to keep this place as great as it is/can be.
The fascinating discussions, entertainment, shared knowledge, access to killer gear, and overall awesomeness of TGP are priceless.
If any member can't find $12 worth of value in TGP that is truly sad.
I will happily subscribe.
It is cool that you subscribed as well...I think you will find it was money well spent.

[PrestonBrick]

You can't see 'New Posts (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/search.php?do=getnew)' without paying. That pretty much kills usability for the non-paying users. On all other accounts this is a reasonable move. But that decision is going to kill non-paying user contributions on account of navigating the abudance of posts on this forum just got significantly harder for them. That's my prediction at least...
+1!:mob

[DC1]

Hey, quick question.

Is there a way to contribute w/o using Paypal?

I closed my account a while back after they scared the crap out of me on an eBay dispute...


thanks!

DC

[Dave Orban]

If you can't find $12 worth of value in TGP that is truly sad.
A-f*cking-men!

[GAT]

Wow, I must have been off-line too long.

So if I'm a Contributing Member, do I need to add $50 to become a Gold Member?

[mge80]

Maybe the "Pub" should be part of the subscription site. That would probably make it worth visiting the pub more often again.


:agree You know. That is not a bad idea at all.

[Scott Peterson]

DC1 - PM Brian. Yes you can, get the details from him.

To the rest: It's okay to not it, so don't go after folks that don't agree personally. All the rules are still in effect; ie. no flaming. To those that don't agree, keep it from getting personal towards us.

We didn't do this lightly and have pondered, debated, brain-stormed and mulled this for months and months. That's not an exaggeration. We've hinted it was coming since late last year. We know some folks will not like it and leave. That's a given. But it's 'do it or die' time. It's nothing but that. If you can't go $12 for a year, then you can't pound the server with searches. That's the breaks. I expect we'll be flamed up and down on other places on the Net over it. HC is used by Musician's Friend and GC as a cultivator for customers; we don't have corporate backing and are not a front to sell you anything. We are about the members, community and a civil atmosphere. If that's not your bag and you only want to come here to deal; then $12 a year isn't too much to ask.

Peace folks.

[mge80]

Wow, I must have been off-line too long.

So if I'm a Contributing Member, do I need to add $50 to become a Gold Member?
No.

[RAILhead]

My ONLY criticism is that I'd like the avatar max size to be 75x75 or 60x60. I know we can turn them off, but it'd be cool to keep them nice and small.

[phretbored]

A-f*cking-men!

:BEER :agree

(Damn! You caught me before I edited that sentence to read:
If any member can't find $12 worth of value in TGP that is truly sad.) :AOK

[jimfog]

Only changes I'd like to see is have the memberships be $25/$50/$100, and make the Pub closed to non-contributers.

[chewynodoubt]

The beauty of this board is that it is one of the most (if not THE most) kick @$$ advertisement free gear communities on the web.
And the beauty of this community is that the majority of the members truly care about this place warts and all IMHO.
I have no doubt whatsoever that the members here will eagerly step up to the needs of TGP to keep this place as great as it is/can be.
The fascinating discussions, entertainment, shared knowledge, access to killer gear, and overall awesomeness of TGP are priceless.
If any member can't find $12 worth of value in TGP that is truly sad.
I will happily subscribe.
It is cool that you subscribed as well...I think you will find it was money well spent.

as I have been a member for a few years, there is tons of value here, more than 12 bux worth. There are also many other sites that provide hundreds of dollars worth of value. But I have never paid for theirs. Just stating some facts. Nothing more

[Woozy]

I'm part of the riff-raff that recently joined, but I 100% support this.
(and this from a guy that probably couldn't even afford a house in Afghanistan)

Think of someone idealistically starting this forum as a haven for people to respectfully discuss gear.
Then, years later, it becoming a complete success!
...and a time and money-pit.

They deserve at least enough for the forum plus extra cash for pizza and beer
on those late nights troubleshooting software features, server configs, etc.

Heck, I've already sold a guitar just by answering a WTB thread.
I'd rather TGP get that fee than ebay.

[Tonefish]

Only changes I'd like to see is have the memberships be $25/$50/$100, and make the Pub closed to non-contributers.


http://www.thegearpage.net/board/image.php?u=2004&dateline=1209944460 Eeeeeewwwwwwe...............

[grego7]

Honestly, I think it will run people off but that may be the desired effect (remember the "some Forum Members Need to Leave" stickied post?).

I'll hang around though, and probably spend too much time and money here.

[GAT]

Brian, Scott, and all the Mods, I 100% support this.

Thanks again.

[PrestonBrick]

What is an avatar?

[Turbo Gerbil]

I'll hang around though, and probably spend too much time and money here.

Not paying the $12 might be the smart move, to keep a persons wallet safe anyway. ;)

[aleclee]

What is an avatar?It's a picture next to your name. You might not have avatar viewing turned on.

[madsr]

sorry I was mistaken, I forgot my opinions don't count, even though I am a supporting member. Thats why everyone jumped on me b/c I wasn't a contributing member. Now I am and have every right to voice my opinion about a site I am helping fund, correct?
whether you contribute or not has no bearing on the right to voice your opinion, the issue for me was being accused of "whining at you" when you in fact were the one whining about a small fee for use of the forum..in fact saying it was BS. You yourself stated that you have had many "transactions" here, and now you have decided that they were worth 12 bucks. Good for you. I'm sure others will follow, and hopefully this site will remain for a good long time.

[HurricaneJesus]

OK, my question is this: Do my subscribed threads kill bandwidth? I was deleting my PM's and just realized I have page upon page of subscribed threads. Should I delete them?

[Hiwatt Bob]

i just contributed myself---would it be too much to ask to open the vbulletin search to words shorter than 4 letters?

[chewynodoubt]

whether you contribute or not has no bearing on the right to voice your opinion, the issue for me was being accused of "whining at you" when you in fact were the one whining about a small fee for use of the forum..in fact saying it was BS. You yourself stated that you have had many "transactions" here, and now you have decided that they were worth 12 bucks. Good for you. I'm sure others will follow, and hopefully this site will remain for a good long time.

whining is whining no matter what side of the issue one chooses to take. Ill admit it, was whining but s were a number of others that disagreed

[rob2001]

OK, my question is this: Do my subscribed threads kill bandwidth? I was deleting my PM's and just realized I have page upon page of subscribed threads. Should I delete them?


I think if you delete those your post count will go down and you will loose all respect!

[chewynodoubt]

i just contributed myself---would it be too much to ask to open the vbulletin search to words shorter than 4 letters?

no doubt!

[Caretaker]

:beer:beer:beer:beer:beer

[HurricaneJesus]

I think if you delete those your post count will go down and you will loose all respect!

I have respect?!?!

[LTE]

I understand the plan and the reasons. For me, it might be awhile before I get to become a contributing member due to money reasons.

If I wanted to post an item that would require a member contributing to the site, would the poster get an credit at all?

[ACfixer]

Just looking at my status. :BEER

[PrestonBrick]

It's a picture next to your name. You might not have avatar viewing turned on.

Thanks, How do i turn it on?

[DaveG]

I have respect?!?!

Hey, how much is the "Respectable Member" title? :D

[Jon C]

i don't care about avatars etc. but it sounds like a good move ...

[aleclee]

OK, my question is this: Do my subscribed threads kill bandwidth?They use a few CPU cycles and a very little bit of bandwidth for the notification emails. Unless you have a slew of 'em I wouldn't worry about it.

[antojado]

Nah...Search uses a LOT of the server's resources. Good idea to make 'em pay.

There are plenty of people that may not be contributers but buy from the emporiums. Those funds will go into the pockets of those that are donating. A limited search function seems like a good compromise. Maybe give search priviledges to people who reach a certain post count?
Anyway, hopefully it helps relieve the financial burden.

[GtrWiz]

OK, I have no problem with the charge, seems reasonable. However, I do think that if TGP is charging members to sell, there should also be some responsibility taken for bad deals/scams. As well as amending the "bad deals" rule. Anyone?

[seajay]

That's a bummer about the search. I don't really care for the Google search.

Oh well, life goes on.

[DaveF]

I do think that if TGP is charging members to sell, there should also be some responsibility taken for bad deals/scams.


Why?

[Scott Peterson]

OK, I have no problem with the charge, seems reasonable. However, I do think that if TGP is charging members to sell, there should also be some responsibility taken for bad deals/scams. As well as amending the "bad deals" rule. Anyone?

Find a forum that offers that. Even one. There is no way that is implied, or promised. Never has happened, never will be. You don't want to pay the fee, that's cool. It is what it is.

[Dotneck]

OK, I have no problem with the charge, seems reasonable. However, I do think that if TGP is charging members to sell, there should also be some responsibility taken for bad deals/scams. As well as amending the "bad deals" rule. Anyone?

If a deal goes bad...who do you think should refund your money...Brian or Scott? Of course, neither one makes any sense because NEITHER ONE HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOUR DEAL.

Now if you're willing to pay 2% of your purchase price you could buy buyers insurance from Online Buyers Insurance (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/www.onlinebuyersinsurance.com)

Now I've done it...I've spilled the beans on my big idea for a business venture...I missed my chance to be a millionaire...BTW...what ever happened to the online escow services...are they still around?

[Tallhorses]

I'm surprised by the growth but not the lack of contribution. I'm cool with the fee... It's worth it to me.

[GtrWiz]

Find a forum that offers that. Even one. There is no way that is implied, or promised. Never has happened, never will be. You don't want to pay the fee, that's cool. It is what it is.


relax, I said I have no problem with the fee. Personally, I've never heard of a forum charging members, but I take your word that there are some.

Maybe just amending the bad deals rule. If you're charging a fee for a the service, at that point TGP becomes a business, even if it's non-profit. There should be some sort of consumer protection, just like any other business.

Edit: I want to be clear that I'm not complaining, just offering an opinion.

[Zilmo]

relax, I said I have no problem with the fee. Personally, I've never heard of a forum charging members, but I take your word that there are some.

Maybe just amending the bad deals rule. If you're charging a fee for a the service, at that point TGP becomes a business, even if it's non-profit. There should be some sort of consumer protection, just like any other business.


Are you really serious?

[bluto0251]

Cool, great idea guys, I have had no problem donating to such a great forum as TGP. It has been such a wealth of info, on all subjects. I mean 12 bucks a year to get all of this info, what a deal.

[Brian Scherzer]

OK, I have no problem with the charge, seems reasonable. However, I do think that if TGP is charging members to sell, there should also be some responsibility taken for bad deals/scams. As well as amending the "bad deals" rule. Anyone?

Not picking on you, but I want you to understand. A good example is the local newspaper. You pay them to place an ad. The buyer sees the ad after purchasing a newspaper. The seller and buyer make a deal and it goes bad. Is the newspaper in any way responsible? Here's another one. TV stations survive on advertising. An airline runs ads on the station and then goes belly-up, leaving people with worthless tickets. Is the TV station responsible?

[Brian Scherzer]

Something I should have stated earlier. You might notice that the "Make A Donation" button is no longer there. Why? Because the financial burden of supporting TGP financially fell on a small minority of members for years. It never felt good to beg members for money and we did our best to be VERY low-key in raising money. Quite honestly, if it was not for some people who made truly generous donations, TGP would not be here.

I think that it is unfair to have less than 8% of our members support more than 92% of the membership. The subscription system, combined with raffles, will hopefully end any reason to have banner advertising or to go begging the membership for money. It will spread the costs of running the site to a greater percent of the members. I see this as a good thing. I especially like the part of my not having to keep asking members to remember to donate. It never felt good to do that.

I should probably add that paying for a subscription does not free subscribers from the need to follow our rules. Being a Contributing Member did not stop us from suspending or banning someone if they broke the rules and racked up enough infraction points. There are no special favors for supporting the site.........never have been and never will be!

[GtrWiz]

Not picking on you, but I want you to understand. A good example is the local newspaper. You pay them to place an ad. The buyer sees the ad after purchasing a newspaper. The seller and buyer make a deal and it goes bad. Is the newspaper in any way responsible? Here's another one. TV stations survive on advertising. An airline runs ads on the station and then goes belly-up, leaving people with worthless tickets. Is the TV station responsible?


Ok, good point, I was thinking more of ebay type business...

But I do think it would be a benefit to contributing members to consider some sort of work around the bad deals rule.

[jimfog]

Brian.....have you seen the big, once a year raffle that Paul Green does over at TDPri? He gets donations from Fender and other vendors, large and small, and it's a real shindig. A lot of work, I'm sure.........but he seems to raise a nice chunk of $$$..........AND it's a blast, with lots of folks winning. Real good for the community.

TGP is a LOT bigger than TDPri, and has a lot more vendors who benefit from their presence here. I would think there should/could be some serious gifts donated for a raffle.

Just a thought,

Jim

[JMarck]

Brian.....have you seen the big, once a year raffle that Paul Green does over at TDPri? He gets donations from Fender and other vendors, large and small, and it's a real shindig. A lot of work, I'm sure.........but he seems to raise a nice chunk of $$$..........AND it's a blast, with lots of folks winning. Real good for the community.

TGP is a LOT bigger than TDPri, and has a lot more vendors who benefit from their presence here. I would think there should/could be some serious gifts donated for a raffle.

Just a thought,

Jim

Jim..

That sounds like a great idea!

[Scott Auld]

I am enjoying seeing what avatars folks pick out for themselves.

Before, you got to know someone by their name; I think the faces / pics add a lot to individualize people :)

[Brian Scherzer]

Brian.....have you seen the big, once a year raffle that Paul Green does over at TDPri? He gets donations from Fender and other vendors, large and small, and it's a real shindig. A lot of work, I'm sure.........but he seems to raise a nice chunk of $$$..........AND it's a blast, with lots of folks winning. Real good for the community.

TGP is a LOT bigger than TDPri, and has a lot more vendors who benefit from their presence here. I would think there should/could be some serious gifts donated for a raffle.

Just a thought,

Jim

Our costs are a lot more than smaller discussion sites, so we already beat you to the idea! We have a current raffle going now, and have a number of builders who have volunteered items for future raffles. The next raffle will be a guitar from Cardinal Guitars. There are also planned raffles that will include 3 pedals, and a raffle for speakers and pickups.

[Brian Scherzer]

So why can I not search my post or other members post, or start a thread in the non-emporium sections, when I try to search a post I get

Austinrocks, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to create a for sale thread, you need to be a supporting member (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/payments.php).
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.not looking to sell gear just yet, so not looking to become a supporting member just yet, but as I said it looks like all I can do is reply in other peoples threads. looks like the software may have some problems.

Try starting a thread on a non-emporium area again. I looked at your account and don't see anything wrong. You are the first to report that they can't start a thread anywhere. If you still see a problem, please PM me.

[aleclee]

So why can I not search my post or other members postVBulletin search is only available to supporting members. The freebie service only offers customized google search.

[john b]

I'm with you guys on this. Great move for TGP and editing out some of the not-so-great folks who show up here from time to time. :agree

P.s - I dig the avatar thing.

[Austinrocks]

Gold membership looks like a bargain,

[mge80]

I am enjoying seeing what avatars folks pick out for themselves.

Before, you got to know someone by their name; I think the faces / pics add a lot to individualize people :)

Though it's a bit more work, I am trying to ensure my avatar (and corresponding User Title) is on a "shuffle" basis.

Makes it a bit more difficult to "individualize".;)

[aram]

I just became a supporting member.

Does this mean I can now post political threads without fear of being banned or suspended?

(:

[phoenix 7]

Great idea, IMO. This place gets better and better.

[VoodooBlues]

Good call. I would hope it would weed out a lot of the unwanted elements here. If not, then they should at least pay up.

[otaypanky]

OTAY !
I don't whine, --- but I love cheese
Thanks for gettin' it all done you guys :BEER

[Dave Orban]

Ok, good point, I was thinking more of ebay type business...

But I do think it would be a benefit to contributing members to consider some sort of work around the bad deals rule.Sure, it would be a benefit. Like me having a full head of hair would be a benefit. But it ain't gonna happen.

[G&L Player]

Brian.....have you seen the big, once a year raffle that Paul Green does over at TDPri? He gets donations from Fender and other vendors, large and small, and it's a real shindig. A lot of work, I'm sure.........but he seems to raise a nice chunk of $$$..........AND it's a blast, with lots of folks winning. Real good for the community.

TGP is a LOT bigger than TDPri, and has a lot more vendors who benefit from their presence here. I would think there should/could be some serious gifts donated for a raffle.

Just a thought,

Jim

I won a 1 piece ash body and solid maple neck from USA Custom Guitars in last years raffle (having them finished now). Regardless of the raffle or not, I would still support both sites, because I like the content/people, and have learned an awful lot from both sites.
I have donated to enter the raffle here...win or not, I'm happy to donate!!!

[Scott Peterson]

I just became a supporting member.

Does this mean I can now post political threads without fear of being banned or suspended?

(:

No. :D

[Lawn Jockey]

Good on you guys for the change. THE place to be on teh interwebs.

[The Peu]

This is a great move guys. Well done!

Christian

[newking70]

Sure, it would be a benefit. Like me having a full head of hair would be a benefit. But it ain't gonna happen.

you can always buy a toupe.....

[aleclee]

Does this mean I can now post political threads without fear of being banned or suspended?No fear at all. It's a certainty. :eek:

[twinrider1]

And in the spirit of new and better days, how about we all get our last infraction wiped from the books! Yea! Alright! Woooohooo!

[Dave Orban]

you can always buy a toupe.....That ain't gonna happen, either... ;)

[scottlr]

A toupee wouldn't work anyway, Dave. You need a full wig :D

[Dave Orban]

A toupee wouldn't work anyway, Dave. You need a full wig :DI was just going to let my ear hair grow out, and comb it up and over...

[guitardude5]

I'm glad to see something was done to help keep TGP a cool site. I can't believe anybody could complain about as little as a buck a month. Oh well...
$12 a year is still cheaper than your porn sites! :BEER
Now stop complaining and go practice :D

[guitarman_1]

Awesome idea and plan. Its a much needed change as some on the newer members have no interest in anything but selling their gear here, and dont bring anything to the site.

[cram]

I haven't read through the thread, but I peaked through the offerings interms of contributions allowed here - the only option for payment was Paypal.

Would we be able to use ccard purchases here?
Did I miss something?

The interest - in the past, a contribution was with ccard and I'd like to use that rather than paypal.

[Scott Peterson]

you can always buy a toupe.....

I'd need a full helmet.

Ummm, just say NO! :rotflmao

[Matt F]

$12 a year is still cheaper than your porn sites! :BEER

Now stop complaining and go practice :D


Dude, This is my porn site !!

:drink

[Dave Orban]

Dude, This is my porn site !!

:drink
Truer words have never been spoken...! LOL!

[Uma Floresta]

I would hope it would weed out a lot of the unwanted elements here.

Like a country club! A place where lawyers, dentists and directors of marketing departments can come together and talk about expensive items they've recently purchased without fear of the riff raff coming in and stinking up the place with their inferior golf clubs/guitars/amplifiers.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm309/tikitikiman777/monclepanda.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x22/DrunkMonkGar/Cats/Kitty-Monocle.jpg

[ford]

Like a country club! A place where lawyers, dentists and directors of marketing departments can come together and talk about expensive items they've recently purchased without fear of the riff raff coming in and stinking up the place with their inferior golf clubs/guitars/amplifiers.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm309/tikitikiman777/monclepanda.jpg

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x22/DrunkMonkGar/Cats/Kitty-Monocle.jpg


Find me a golf club for 12 bucks a year and I'm in! Heck I'll move up to 20 bucks a month even.

rock

bford

[Uma Floresta]

Find me a golf club for 12 bucks a year and I'm in! Heck I'll move up to 20 bucks a month even.

rock

bford

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m260/csmgj/CountryClub.jpg

[mr.mattphisto]

It needed to be done. Great plan and price.

:agree

Hopefully this means more banana icons..
:banana


Maybe we can update the Logo Banner again (that was a fun contest). Winner gets a free Gold Membership for a year!

[jimfog]

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m260/csmgj/CountryClub.jpg

Brian......new idea.

Make it so only Gold members can post images!









Please????

[JeffG.]

I like the change and support your decision. Good luck.

[Hiwatt Bob]

1. i paid my $12 for the emporium mainly. i think it's fair--i easily get that value out of it.

2. i didn't pay my $12 for the 'information'. certainly i gleen a ton of useful information others provide here--but i also try to provide it when i have something valuable to contribute to the discussion. a board is what people put into it.

3. i didn't pay my $12 to listen to pompous members get all elitist and disrespectful just because they paid more than me. wtf. you enact a new policy and then shout down anyone who has the slightest problem with it.

4. $12 is not alot of money. $12 x 30,000 IS alot of money. even if only 10% of the members actually contribute this--it's STILL alot of money. i have no clue what it costs to maintain this site--and the admins deserve every penny--but with this kind of money involved, i think it's more than acceptable to at least question how the money is being spent.

5. in the long run--i think the $12 will end up hurting the emporium. the thing that made the emporium as strong as it is--is the sheer volume of stuff there. the selection is huge--rivals ebay for the stuff i'm interested in. however, if only 10% of the members actually pay--that sheer loss of volume and selection will undoubtedly hurt the quality of the emporium. i hope this is not the case--i really do.

6. sorry about the numerical list, it's annoying i know. but i had alot of points to make and it just helped me stay focused.

[Uma Floresta]

Brian......new idea.

Make it so only Gold members can post images!









Please????

Better yet, change all non-paying members monikers to read "Lesser Member" with the subtitle "Riffraff."

Let the class warfare begin!



:messedup

[Uma Floresta]

3. i didn't pay my $12 to listen to pompous members get all elitist and disrespectful just because they paid more than me. wtf. you enact a new policy and then shout down anyone who has the slightest problem with it.


+1

That little custom title and avatar sure went to some people's heads awfully fast.

:messedup

[jimfog]

3. i didn't pay my $12 to listen to pompous members get all elitist and disrespectful just because they paid more than me. wtf. you enact a new policy and then shout down anyone who has the slightest problem with it.

5. in the long run--i think the $12 will end up hurting the emporium.

Pompous and disrespectful?

I guess some folks just find it surprising that people have the gall to bitch and moan about such a pittance.........AND ask for "more stuff for me"......AND question the integrity of where the $$$'s going.....AND not be fronted about it.......especially when none of this would be necessary if folks had been doing the right thing and contributing all along. ( a point everyone seems to be missing). If you can't feel the gyrations Brian and Scott put themselves through over this decision, and not really wanting to do it, you're just not noticing. I think a little support is called for.

As to the emporium..........sometimes quality trumps quantity...........and judging by this morning, where the least number of folks will be able to post, it hasn't slacked off a bit.

I'll stop here, so this doesn't become a pissing match. But keep in mind...........if you have the right to an opinion, others have the right to tell you you're full of shit.

[big mike]

Allright, please knock off the bickering between members, and leave this to be the question answer thread brian intended. If you have questions, please make them. If you have comments that are just going to pick on, or attack another member, stop it right now please.

[Hiwatt Bob]

Pompous and disrespectful?

I guess some folks just find it surprising that people have the gall to bitch and moan about such a pittance.........AND ask for "more stuff for me"......AND question the integrity of where the $$$'s going.....AND not be fronted about it.......especially when none of this would be necessary if folks had been doing the right thing and contributing all along. ( a point everyone seems to be missing). If you can't feel the gyrations Brian and Scott put themselves through over this decision, and not really wanting to do it, you're just not noticing. I think a little support is called for.

As to the emporium..........sometimes quality trumps quantity...........and judging by this morning, where the least number of folks will be able to post, it hasn't slacked off a bit.

re-read points 1. and 4. from my original post.

[uOpt]

I just payed for a subscription. Sounds fair to me although I'm afraid the lack of a search feature for newish members might increase the number of repeated questions. Maybe there's a way to disable the "new posts" search (which most likely is the major source of server load) but not disable the "real" text search?

I wonder how is the payment "mapped" to the member ID? Via email address?