Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7 anybody use them?

[ski_fast]

I just found some very old Electrohome 12AX7's which were made in Canada. These are simply relabled Amperex Bugle Boys. Anybody like these? Are they similar to a Telefunken? Mullard? Thanks.

[War Admiral]

Very nice tube. I use one in V1 of my '71 SL. I have a Philips Mullard in V2 and a Tesla in V3. A great combination.

[teleman1]

You scored! THey are close to Telefunkens and Mullards. I can't tell you sonic differences, but they are in the ballpark and much better thatn any current production tube in a lot of ways, longevity for one.

[Timbre Wolf]

You've got Canadian tubes with Amperex and the Bugle Boy logo painted on them. Paint aside, what you've got are Canadian tubes. Could be good, could be different, but it is impossible to say unless we know the true make and year of manufacturing.

Most people think of the classic "Bugle Boy" 12AX7 as a Dutch Philips tube. There are so many variations on Heerlen-made 12AX7 alone, that there can be no credibility in any response here unless you identify exactly what tube you are talking about. That Bugle Boy logo went on a lot of different tubes.

Have you seen any etched codes on the glass?

- Thom

[frankencat]

I've got one in V1 of my Splawn and it's great. I like them better than the Mullards.

[Groovey Records]

lot of counterfeit Bugle Boys out there

Need the etching id' #'s

Photo's would be good as well

[Timbre Wolf]

Everyone on this thread can benefit from perusing the Tube Classics Web site where the identity of Philips tubes is discussed. Check out this page on Bugle Boy labels and true identity (http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo/Philipstubes.htm).

Amperex was an American company that re-labeled tubes from many sources. Many were from Heerlen, Holland (with a delta-shaped factory etch code), but I've got Bugle Boy logo 12AX7s from Valvo (Hamburg, with a D factory code), Siemens (Munich, with a code like an "equals" sign with a slash through it), Mullard (Blackburn, with B code) - even Ei (pre-war Yugoslavia, with a 3/4 circle with a dot in it). The Bugle Boy paint does not make for an identity of a tube.

Let's say that the Bugle Boy 12AX7 is from Heerlen. There were at least five different distinct variations of that tube type, depending on the date of manufacturing. There are mC long-plates, and I6 short-plates (I61, I63, I65, I66). These different tubes have distinct sonic characteristics.

Check this out for more on Philips 12AX7 types (http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20ECC83/ECC83.htm).

I've got one in V1 of my Splawn and it's great. I like them better than the Mullards.
You've got an Canadian "Electrohome" Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7? Which of the at least half-dozen types of Mullard 12AX7 does it sound better than - the long-plate mC1, f91, or f92, or short-plate I61 or I63, or box-plate CV4004?

I don't mean to be picking on you, personally, Frankencat, but I do want to take the opportunity to remind everyone here that, unless you specify exactly which tube you are discussing, you are not having a truly meaningful discussion.

I once ate an orange that had some peculiar qualities. It was very sweet, but not as juicy as I thought it would be. In fact, it was kind of crisp, and not tart, like people describe it to be. I know it was an orange, though, because it had one of those little stickers that said "Sunkist Orange." But the skin was reddish. Maybe it was one of those rare blood oranges? Or maybe it was an... apple! :jo

- T

[FloridaSam]

Hands down my favorite 12AX7. I put them in all my amps. They sound amazing and look cool too. They sound soooo good in old plexis it should be illegal.

[RedMan]

I really like the ones that say made in Holland on them. Chewy like a Mullard but with more balls and definition.

[Bonenut]

My fav tube as well.

[rockon1]

Everyone on this thread can benefit from perusing the Tube Classics Web site where the identity of Philips tubes is discussed. Check out this page on Bugle Boy labels and true identity (http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo/Philipstubes.htm).

Amperex was an American company that re-labeled tubes from many sources. Many were from Heerlen, Holland (with a delta-shaped factory etch code), but I've got Bugle Boy logo 12AX7s from Valvo (Hamburg, with a D factory code), Siemens (Munich, with a code like an "equals" sign with a slash through it), Mullard (Blackburn, with B code) - even Ei (pre-war Yugoslavia, with a 3/4 circle with a dot in it). The Bugle Boy paint does not make for an identity of a tube.

Let's say that the Bugle Boy 12AX7 is from Heerlen. There were at least five different distinct variations of that tube type, depending on the date of manufacturing. There are mC long-plates, and I6 short-plates (I61, I63, I65, I66). These different tubes have distinct sonic characteristics.

Check this out for more on Philips 12AX7 types (http://www.tube-classics.de/TC/Tubes/Valvo%20ECC83/ECC83.htm).


You've got an Canadian "Electrohome" Amperex Bugle Boy 12AX7? Which of the at least half-dozen types of Mullard 12AX7 does it sound better than - the long-plate mC1, f91, or f92, or short-plate I61 or I63, or box-plate CV4004?

I don't mean to be picking on you, personally, Frankencat, but I do want to take the opportunity to remind everyone here that, unless you specify exactly which tube you are discussing, you are not having a truly meaningful discussion.

I once ate an orange that had some peculiar qualities. It was very sweet, but not as juicy as I thought it would be. In fact, it was kind of crisp, and not tart, like people describe it to be. I know it was an orange, though, because it had one of those little stickers that said "Sunkist Orange." But the skin was reddish. Maybe it was one of those rare blood oranges? Or maybe it was an... apple! :jo

- T

Are you talking to a wall ? lol! Bob

[Groovey Records]

I was gonna let it pass but you CAN take a HORSE to Water and then you can drown them at least.

[War Admiral]

I really like the ones that say made in Holland on them. Chewy like a Mullard but with more balls and definition.
Those are the ones. I have 3 of those with the bugle boy logo and Holland etched on the side. They sound fantastic!

[Timbre Wolf]

Are you talking to a wall ? lol! Bob
Apparently. And they keep on posting, too.

I was gonna let it pass but you CAN take a HORSE to Water and then you can drown them at least.
Yep. :horse I'm done trying with that horse.

Good luck to all y'all.

- T

[teleman1]

Well, I get the point Timbre. But , ya gotta know that some think the new Mullard 12ax7's are the same as a Holld mfg. Just like JBL speakers, todays product is not anyway near the late 60' & 70's.

[Bonenut]

I'm talking about 60's Heerlen shortplates if anyone's not sure.

[ski_fast]

Timber Wolf-- this is the site that tells me these are exactly the same as bugle boys: http://bullfrogmusic.ca/the-truth-about-amperex-12ax7-bugle-boy-tubes/

Evidently Amperex had a Canadian plant and the tubes produced were the same as European.

My 4 tubes look exactly like the electrohome pictured. It does not have the bugle but this was common during this period of rebranding at the factory. Electronic companies deceived the pubic by saying stuff like "use only genuine Zenith tubes" etc. Inked production number says AY and under that L4.

I know these are not fake tubes because I pulled them from a pair of late 50's, early 60's grommes "lil jewel" mono block amps. They had the original tubes and if I put on the Rolling Stones No Security CD with my A/D/S speakers in my bedroom the soundstage was just like the concert... unreal. I looked at these tubes yesterday and realized I hit the jackpot.

I am looking for some tubes to tame down the block logo Emplexador I just bought. This amp rocks, like a strong dog pulling the leash. Any suggestions would be appreciated but I am going to try these old tubes, then maybe a 12AY7 in the first position as Brian suggested.

[Timbre Wolf]

Timber Wolf-- this is the site that tells me these are exactly the same as bugle boys: http://bullfrogmusic.ca/the-truth-about-amperex-12ax7-bugle-boy-tubes/

Evidently Amperex had a Canadian plant and the tubes produced were the same as European.
Okay - now we're getting somewhere. If your tube has the Heerlen, Holland "delta" shape, then it was not made in Canada - no matter what the paint says. The most common Heerlen-made 12AX7 is the I65 type (that is the first line of the etched code, signifying the version number). It is a short-plate (14mm, vs. 17mm long-plate) 12AX7, and was often labeled Philips Miniwatt (without the Bugle Boy logo). They are excellent tubes, but, good as they are, they don't have the clarity of the older long-plate Heerlen 12AX7 (mC_ types).

Not too long ago, I did a listening test of short-plate Philips-style 12AX7s. I put 'em in V1 of several of my amps. I also included some Tungsram ECC83 and a short-plate RCA 12AX7A, because they appear to be similar style construction. I found that the genuine Philips-made (Mullard/Blackburn, Siemens/Munich, and Miniwatt/Heerlen) all have a certain quality of emphasizing harmonic overtones, which makes them very appealing. The RCA short-plate 12AX7A, in comparison, had absolutely none of this quality - it was all fundamental note. Although the harmonic-rich quality represents a kind of distortion, it is real pleasant.

For a pseudo 12-string type sound, try playing a '60s Tele clean through a Vox AC30, with a '60s Heerlen (Amperex/Miniwatt I65) 12AX7/ECC83 in V1.

- Thom

[rockon1]

OK I'll try to elaborate... Heres 6 Philips family of short plates. If I took all the paint off them they would be virtually indistinguishable. They however wont all sound the same.For whatever reason (since they appear identical) I find both types of Heerlen 12AX7's brighter and slightly thinner sounding than their twin Mullard(Blackburn)12AX7's which sound fuller,warmer to me. The earlier type I61 sounds smoother to me than the later versions(again appearing identical) Bob


From left to right

GE- I63 Mullard(blackburn plant)
VM(voice of music) I61 blackburn (earier type construction than the I63)
Amperex-I63 Mullard(blackburn plant)
Amperex-I65-Holland (heerlen plant)
Hammond branded-165 Holland(Heerlen plant)
Hammond branded Mullard (blackburn plant)





http://i30.tinypic.com/2j1pvfd.jpg

[Timbre Wolf]

OK I'll try to elaborate... Heres 6 Philips family of short plates. If I took all the paint off them they would be virtually indistinguishable. They however wont all sound the same.For whatever reason (since they appear identical) I find both types of Heerlen 12AX7's brighter and slightly thinner sounding than their twin Mullard(Blackburn)12AX7's which sound fuller,warmer to me. The earlier type I61 sounds smoother to me than the later versions(again appearing identical) Bob
Excellent - thanks for the photo, Bob. FWIW, I also find the Heerlen short-plates to be a bit brighter, and thinner (less bass & lower-mids) when compared to the Mullard short-plate types. Siemens (I62) also has fat lows.

- T

[misterdontmove]

I ran across a pile of N.O.S. Amperex "world logo" 12ax7s at a TV shop going out of business for $1.00 each (in original boxes). Needless to say I bought all of them and they still sound tremendous.

[bunuel]

I've had several of the Canadian-made phillips short-plate 12ax7 with the electrohome logo & the codes of I65 over rxxx & they're fantastic, easily on par with the early I63 shortplate heerlen or mullard-blackburn 12ax7. (Seems much easier just to type that the phillips electrohomes are on par w/ amperex 12ax7!). I agree logo ain't important, tone & construction are & that codes help one guess how they'll sound. I'll throw in that lotsa folks extol the virtues of OS Phillips tubes, but to me, one is certainly consistency & qual. control. I'm sure phillips let some dogs get out, but I've never encountered one & I definitely can't say that about modern production tubes, 12ax7 or otherwise.

[rooster]

IIRC, the Canadian ones are made by Rogers, and, I could be way off here, but didn't Rogers come up with the original 12AX7? Not sure, there, but they are great tubes for most any purpose.

rooster.

[John Mayes]

I've got a pair in my 18 watter I built. Awesome tubes.

[rockon1]

IIRC, the Canadian ones are made by Rogers, and, I could be way off here, but didn't Rogers come up with the original 12AX7? rooster.


I "think" RCA holds that claim but Im not sure. I'll say this I have a few Ken Rad's that are dated 1949. Bob

[Timbre Wolf]

I "think" RCA holds that claim but Im not sure. I'll say this I have a few Ken Rad's that are dated 1949. Bob
It was RCA that first made the 12AX7, in '47 or '48.

- T