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View Full Version : So... for a Dumble clone kit...


Bob Simpson
05-10-2008, 12:11 AM
should I go Ceriatone or D'lite?

I've got the tools, knowledge and skills to assemble/mod either kit...
It appears the money is similar...
Parts quality?
Buy USA?

Any ideas?

Bob Simpson

big mike
05-10-2008, 12:14 AM
D-Lite. great sounding amp.

kodecar
05-10-2008, 02:23 AM
I have no experience with the Ceriatone but I really like my D'lite a lot.

Rod
05-10-2008, 02:34 AM
The Ceriatone seems to have mods needed,,,see Jack Zucker's posts

crosse79
05-10-2008, 05:08 AM
You can go either way - both Ceriatone & D'lites are great amps. I have not tried D'lites before though - but base my thoughts on what other forumers say about it.

fullerplast
05-10-2008, 09:21 AM
Either amp can sound very good and either can be tweaked to suit personal preferences. Note that the original D'lite did not include the jazz/rock switch or footswitchable OD and PAB while the Overtone has both, and also has the second FET input like the real Dumble.

Owning both however, and being able to play them both side by side with various speakers and guitars, I have to say I prefer the Overtone by a wide margin. It simply sounds bigger, better, and smoother to my ears. This is comparing the latest tweaked D'Lite to the stock Overtone. YMMV of course.

Another TGP member who owned both has this to say:

I have the D'lite running 6L6's so close enough to the 44 AND I have the first production Overtone. I love the D'lite. As many have said it is a fabulous amp. I have had the Overtone for about a week and have been very busy comparing both amps.

Once I completed the D'lite kit I knew what the amp was all about within two hours of first turning it on.

The Overtone has so much more going on that I am still finding new sounds after a week of at least 2 or 3 hours a day. The other fellow with the #2 production amp is finding the same thing. This is THE most dynamic and interactive amp I have ever played.....period...and I have spent a fair bit of time in the Tokyo amp shops trying all the high end gear.

As for the build quality all I will say is very high quality components were used, the chassis is very solid and needs to be to support the very hefty trannies.

derekd
05-10-2008, 09:50 AM
Not being a DIY guy when it comes to electronics, I based my decision on prices of finished amps and the various clips out there. The Ceriatone is what, half or less of what the D'lite is? They both sound like great amps, so you probably can't go wrong, but $3k+ vs $1k? Easy choice.

Sean French
05-10-2008, 10:12 AM
Buy American.:AOK

GP_Hawk
05-10-2008, 10:23 AM
TGP=Get BOTH:D

Really, either one. Price can be a factor for some us though....

fullerplast
05-10-2008, 02:11 PM
Buy American.:AOK

Well, it depends.....do you also drive a Ford instead of a Toyota? What about clothing, TV, and home electronics? How consistent are you with this philosophy and do you let it override cost and performance considerations?

Sometimes it's about money....that extra $1000 is either going to go in your pocket or the amp builders pocket.

Sometimes it's simply about what amp you like the tone of most.....for example, I've owned several domestic built D clones, some costing literally triple what the Overtone did. I chose the Overtone based on performance alone.

Most of the time it's just a balance of all three considerations.:YinYang

GuitarsFromMars
05-10-2008, 02:13 PM
D'Lite.

NFB
05-10-2008, 02:45 PM
C-tone

nitehawk55
05-10-2008, 04:39 PM
Most including myself wouldn't know a Dumble if it fell on their foot . Go out and try some amps till you find something that has the sound you want .

Dumbles ....I get sick of hearing about the damn things :NUTS

soulsonic
05-11-2008, 12:00 AM
Dumbles ....I get sick of hearing about the damn things :NUTS
+1000000000000000000000000000000!!!!!!!!!!!11111!! !!!!!111!!1

PDXFactory
05-15-2008, 11:16 PM
Interesting...has anyone acutally compared the circuits and component values between the D'Lite and the Overtone? I was under the impression that they were both based on the same basic circuit - but based on Fullerplasts comments (and the quoted comment) it sounds like they may be significantly different.

I just bought an unassembled D'Lite 44 kit from another TGP forum member, so this is definitely of interest. I was checking out the Ceriatone site today, and they have a full schematic posted. I'm planning to do a little comparison once the kit arrives and I dig into it a little further...

fusionbear
05-15-2008, 11:42 PM
I have tried both and I have to say the D-Lite is wirth the extra scratch. Don't get me wrong, the Ceriatone is great, but the D-Lite is way better.

PDXFactory
05-15-2008, 11:51 PM
I have tried both and I have to say the D-Lite is wirth the extra scratch. Don't get me wrong, the Ceriatone is great, but the D-Lite is way better.

Can you expand on that a little? What did you like better about the kits? Are you talking component / build quality or tonal characteristics?

Thanks!

brownnote
05-16-2008, 04:49 AM
Either amp can sound very good and either can be tweaked to suit personal preferences. Note that the original D'lite did not include the jazz/rock switch or footswitchable OD and PAB while the Overtone has both, and also has the second FET input like the real Dumble.

Owning both however, and being able to play them both side by side with various speakers and guitars, I have to say I prefer the Overtone by a wide margin. It simply sounds bigger, better, and smoother to my ears. This is comparing the latest tweaked D'Lite to the stock Overtone. YMMV of course.

Another TGP member who owned both has this to say:
"I have the D'lite running 6L6's so close enough to the 44 AND I have the first production Overtone. I love the D'lite. As many have said it is a fabulous amp. I have had the Overtone for about a week and have been very busy comparing both amps...."


OK...see this is where the comparison is getting muddled...are we comparing kits to kits or production builds to production builds?

The Original Poster is asking for a comparison of "DUMBLE CLONE KITS"
First off, the D'Lite is not a Dumble clone kit...it was originally offered as an alternative to 50/100W amps, stripped of seldom used, or "tone sucking "options, and designed to perform at home/recording/club level venues...getting into the sweet spot earlier and at a lower volume level than 50/100w amps.

Some of the differences in the KITS are:
Smaller Footprint: the D'Lite platform is based on a 17" chassis vs. the full sized 19" Dumble, and in the case of the Overtone 19.25"
Lighter Weight: The D'Lite 22/33 uses an output stage comparable to a Vibrolux (which makes it considerable lighter) vs. the heavier bassman/super/twin OT of a 50W/100W amp.
It's designed to be a grab and go amp that doesn't require the use of a dolly to transport (don't laugh...not everyone's back can take it anymore) and will fit in the overhead compartment when traveling.
Power Range: D'Lite 22/33w amp is suited for the home/recording/club level user.
Simplified Design: removing the rock/jazz switch, deep switch, foot-switching components, FET input, etc. got rid of a bunch of parts and wire in the signal path and the result was surprising...extremely sensitive, dynamic and responsive even at very low volumes, no need for power attenuators, etc. Easier assembly for less experienced builders.

Not being a DIY guy when it comes to electronics, I based my decision on prices of finished amps and the various clips out there. The Ceriatone is what, half or less of what the D'lite is? They both sound like great amps, so you probably can't go wrong, but $3k+ vs $1k? Easy choice.

See this isn't accurate...here we're comparing production level factory built amps. Here's how the prices break down:
Overtone: $1150 for built chassis w/head cab+$196 shipping= $1346
D'Lite22/33: $2185+$40 flat rate shipping = $2225

The price difference is: $879

Sorry folks we can't compete with Ceriatone labor prices, but we do offer unlimited telephone consultation and support, will voice your amp exactly to your needs, and offer domestic factory direct warranty/repair 5yrs parts & labor.

When you get a D'Lite production amp, you don't get just an assembled kit, there are a lot of differences between the kits and the production amps.
The kits are designed to be more affordable and use components comparable to just about 99% of all production amps out there.

Production amps use:

Chassis: Factory built amps use a different chassis of heavier gauge welded aluminum, powder coated and silk screened with stainless inserts.
Transformers: multiple primary & secondary taps for international use (100v,120v,200v,220v,230v,240v) and power output selection (22w,33w) into 4-8-16 ohms...
Components: high quality US made Sprague electrolytic caps (not Atoms), German F&T caps, PS series caps, High quality ceramic dipped caps, Kiwame resistors, Dale resistors, etc, etc...the components are selected foe tone and reliability regardless of cost.
Tubes: matched power tubes, Tung-Sol, Winged-C, TAD, EH, all hand selected for performance and tone...it takes almost as long to tube it as it does to build it.

Getting back on topic (sort of) and comparing kits we have:

Ceriatone OTS kit: $650+$122=$772 (no tubes)
Brown Note D'Lite 22/33 kit: $695+$25=$720 (tubes included)


Well, it depends.....do you also drive a Ford instead of a Toyota? What about clothing, TV, and home electronics? How consistent are you with this philosophy and do you let it override cost and performance considerations?

Sometimes it's about money....that extra $1000 is either going to go in your pocket or the amp builders pocket.

Sometimes it's simply about what amp you like the tone of most.....for example, I've owned several domestic built D clones, some costing literally triple what the Overtone did. I chose the Overtone based on performance alone.

Most of the time it's just a balance of all three considerations.



OK not exactly...that price difference as show above is less than a thousand, it's $879.
And yes it goes it goes into the builder's pockets, but not just the amp builder in California, but the:
Chassis builder/Metal Shop located in California,
Transformer builder located in Michigan,
Parts Suppliers located in California, Texas, Arizona, Minnesota, New York, Missouri, Georgia, Illinois, Ohio, New Jersey, etc.
So there you go, that money gets spread around quite a bit and I think that's worth recognizing.

BTW...this rant wasn't intended to be a sales pitch, just a more thorough overview in response to some of the statements being made.
Thanks for taking the time to read it.
Buy what you like.

Over and out.
-Moss

FourT6and2
05-16-2008, 05:09 AM
Wow, the Gospel Blues and Carlton Tone clips on your site are amazing. Nice, airy atmosphere. Fantastic drummer, too. :)

trap
05-16-2008, 06:11 AM
very informative moss! thank you! and toyota's are made in america now, aren't they? LOL!

Mark Kane
05-16-2008, 06:31 AM
OK...see this is where the comparison is getting muddled...are we comparing kits to kits or production builds to production builds?

The Original Poster is asking for a comparison of "DUMBLE CLONE KITS"
First off, the D'Lite is not a Dumble clone kit...it was originally offered as an alternative to 50/100W amps, stripped of seldom used, or "tone sucking "options, and designed to perform at home/recording/club level venues...getting into the sweet spot earlier and at a lower volume level than 50/100w amps.

Some of the differences in the KITS are:
Smaller Footprint: the D'Lite platform is based on a 17" chassis vs. the full sized 19" Dumble, and in the case of the Overtone 19.25"
Lighter Weight: The D'Lite 22/33 uses an output stage comparable to a Vibrolux (which makes it considerable lighter) vs. the heavier bassman/super/twin OT of a 50W/100W amp.
It's designed to be a grab and go amp that doesn't require the use of a dolly to transport (don't laugh...not everyone's back can take it anymore) and will fit in the overhead compartment when traveling.
Power Range: D'Lite 22/33w amp is suited for the home/recording/club level user.
Simplified Design: removing the rock/jazz switch, deep switch, foot-switching components, FET input, etc. got rid of a bunch of parts and wire in the signal path and the result was surprising...extremely sensitive, dynamic and responsive even at very low volumes, no need for power attenuators, etc. Easier assembly for less experienced builders.



See this isn't accurate...here we're comparing production level factory built amps. Here's how the prices break down:
Overtone: $1150 for built chassis w/head cab+$196 shipping= $1346
D'Lite22/33: $2185+$40 flat rate shipping = $2225

The price difference is: $879

Sorry folks we can't compete with Ceriatone labor prices, but we do offer unlimited telephone consultation and support, will voice your amp exactly to your needs, and offer domestic factory direct warranty/repair 5yrs parts & labor.

When you get a D'Lite production amp, you don't get just an assembled kit, there are a lot of differences between the kits and the production amps.
The kits are designed to be more affordable and use components comparable to just about 99% of all production amps out there.

Production amps use:

Chassis: Factory built amps use a different chassis of heavier gauge welded aluminum, powder coated and silk screened with stainless inserts.
Transformers: multiple primary & secondary taps for international use (100v,120v,200v,220v,230v,240v) and power output selection (22w,33w) into 4-8-16 ohms...
Components: high quality US made Sprague electrolytic caps (not Atoms), German F&T caps, PS series caps, High quality ceramic dipped caps, Kiwame resistors, Dale resistors, etc, etc...the components are selected foe tone and reliability regardless of cost.
Tubes: matched power tubes, Tung-Sol, Winged-C, TAD, EH, all hand selected for performance and tone...it takes almost as long to tube it as it does to build it.

Getting back on topic (sort of) and comparing kits we have:

Ceriatone OTS kit: $650+$122=$772 (no tubes)
Brown Note D'Lite 22/33 kit: $695+$25=$720 (tubes included)






OK not exactly...that price difference as show above is less than a thousand, it's $879.
And yes it goes it goes into the builder's pockets, but not just the amp builder in California, but the:
Chassis builder/Metal Shop located in California,
Transformer builder located in Michigan,
Parts Suppliers located in California, Texas, Arizona, Minnesota, New York, Missouri, Georgia, Illinois, Ohio, New Jersey, etc.
So there you go, that money gets spread around quite a bit and I think that's worth recognizing.

BTW...this rant wasn't intended to be a sales pitch, just a more thorough overview in response to some of the statements being made.
Thanks for taking the time to read it.
Buy what you like.

Over and out.
-Moss

Great post, great perspective that is almost always missing on these threads!!!:AOK

scottl
05-16-2008, 07:16 AM
I have a 100 watt Brownnote Bluemonkey here, 6L6 Bluesmaster. This thing is huge sounding and the standard output of any Dumble clone with standard old style feedback will be dwarfed by this type of output. Point is that the OTS is certainly bigger sounding than the original Dlite 22 kits. However, if you compare the latest Dlites to the OTS, I think that the outcome will be quite different. The Brownnote guys have a half a dozen different circuits they do based on customer preference. They use a mulititude of different trannies to get the desired results. So, unless the choice is a stock Dlite 22 kit (old style) versus OTS, the answer is not black and white. The OTS is a good starting point for the traditional D thing. I would choose it over the 6V6 designed Dlite 22 (that I never cared for). I would not choose it over a Dlite 44. The comparison is not apples to apples when talking Dlite 22 versus OTS50

Either amp can sound very good and either can be tweaked to suit personal preferences. Note that the original D'lite did not include the jazz/rock switch or footswitchable OD and PAB while the Overtone has both, and also has the second FET input like the real Dumble.

Owning both however, and being able to play them both side by side with various speakers and guitars, I have to say I prefer the Overtone by a wide margin. It simply sounds bigger, better, and smoother to my ears. This is comparing the latest tweaked D'Lite to the stock Overtone. YMMV of course.

Another TGP member who owned both has this to say:

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 07:53 AM
OK...see this is where the comparison is getting muddled...are we comparing kits to kits or production builds to production builds?

The Original Poster is asking for a comparison of "DUMBLE CLONE KITS"
First off, the D'Lite is not a Dumble clone kit...it was originally offered as an alternative to 50/100W amps, stripped of seldom used, or "tone sucking "options, and designed to perform at home/recording/club level venues...getting into the sweet spot earlier and at a lower volume level than 50/100w amps.

OTOH, the Ceriatone KIT is the same as the production version, simply unassembled. So comparing kits, you are saying that they are not really equivalent because the D'Lite is simplified compared to the Overtone. OK. So you either eliminate the D'Lite from the comparison, or you use it as the closest thing available from you. I think that the OP was not too hung up on the precise definition of "Dumble clone" such that he was willing to consider the D'Lite.

See this isn't accurate...here we're comparing production level factory built amps. Here's how the prices break down:
Overtone: $1150 for built chassis w/head cab+$196 shipping= $1346
D'Lite22/33: $2185+$40 flat rate shipping = $2225

The price difference is: $879

Sorry for rounding off to $1000:rolleyes:...shipping from Ceriatone was not that expensive a few months ago. But that was not the point in any event. Either that $879 goes into the buyers pocket, or it goes into the pockets of guys other than the buyer....kinda like when somebody buys a Gustavsson guitar instead of a Gibson.....or a Vox amp, or a Marshall, or a Fender, or a Gibson, or a Crate, or just about any number of musician commodities.

Sorry folks we can't compete with Ceriatone labor prices, but we do offer unlimited telephone consultation and support, will voice your amp exactly to your needs, and offer domestic factory direct warranty/repair 5yrs parts & labor.

When you get a D'Lite production amp, you don't get just an assembled kit, there are a lot of differences between the kits and the production amps.

Production amps use:......[

........Getting back on topic (sort of) and comparing kits we have:

Ceriatone OTS kit: $650+$122=$772 (no tubes)
Brown Note D'Lite 22/33 kit: $695+$25=$720 (tubes included)

But the Ceriatone KIT is virtually the same as the production model, so all those features of the production model are included. The D'Lite OTOH has reduced features and parts to get the same price.

BTW...this rant wasn't intended to be a sales pitch, just a more thorough overview in response to some of the statements being made.
Thanks for taking the time to read it.
Buy what you like.

Over and out.
-Moss

Thanks for the clarifications. I was not aware that there were so many differences in the production version, but since the OP was interested in kits, the closest comparison would be the D'Lite to the Overtone, unless you simply want to eliminate it from a D type kit comparison.

But it you do still want to include it for consideration (and I suspect the OP would) then my tonal comparison still applies. Specifically, that the Overtone sounded much better to my ears than the D'Lite, when compared side by side using the same guitars and same speakers by the same player in the same room. But that's just my opinion, and the opinion of a couple of others that also own both. In the end I think that is what the OP wanted.....personal opinions based on personal experiences.

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 07:59 AM
I have a 100 watt Brownnote Bluemonkey here, 6L6 Bluesmaster. This thing is huge sounding and the standard output of any Dumble clone with standard old style feedback will be dwarfed by this type of output. Point is that the OTS is certainly bigger sounding than the original Dlite 22 kits. However, if you compare the latest Dlites to the OTS, I think that the outcome will be quite different.

....and that production only amp is what, $2900?

How does your answer help the OP with his question about D-clone kits?

scottl
05-16-2008, 08:01 AM
I thought the Brownnote guiys would sell any of their models unassembled. Do we know for sure whether they won't?

....and that production only amp is what, $2900?

How does your answer help the OP with his question about D-clone kits?

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 08:15 AM
I thought the Brownnote guiys would sell any of their models unassembled. Do we know for sure whether they won't?

Well, it could well be, but the amp you describe is not listed as a kit option on the ordering page AFAIK....and even if it were, you'd be comparing a quad 6L6 amp with a dual 6L6 amp of a different design.

Point is that the OTS is certainly bigger sounding than the original Dlite 22 kits. However, if you compare the latest Dlites to the OTS, I think that the outcome will be quite different.

I was comparing the latest 22/33 with 6L6's. OTOH, your predicted outcome is complete speculation, as you've not even heard an Overtone.

scottl
05-16-2008, 09:35 AM
Sort of true, but I have heard dozens of 50 watt clones with virtually the same values as the OTS. I was referring to the Bluesmaster versus standard. That is apples versus oranges and I can predict the outcome. Kind of like comparing a Plexi to a Twin. There are definate differences. OTOH, I think you will flip for this amp! From what I know of your playing, this topography is you! We should get together..

I was comparing the latest 22/33 with 6L6's. OTOH, your predicted outcome is complete speculation, as you've not even heard an Overtone.

jdh
05-16-2008, 10:08 AM
I can say without reservation that the D'lite is a true giant killer. More importantly, there are few amps that can go against it at any price. Building the amp from scratch (with a full bill of materials) was a great learning experience as well. All the information you need, and then some, is readily available from the Brown Note Website.

One of the best kept secrets about amp building is the parts layout and wire routing topology are everything. The Brown Note layout diagram is worth its weight in gold. The way I figure it, since the layout was free on the Web I was obligated to give them the money for the parts kit. And I got the best audio electronics deal of my career. Did I mention the layout was worth its weight in gold?

Rusty G.
05-16-2008, 10:36 AM
I can say without reservation that the D'lite is a true giant killer. More importantly, there are few amps that can go against it at any price. Building the amp from scratch (with a full bill of materials) was a great learning experience as well. All the information you need, and then some, is readily available from the Brown Note Website.

One of the best kept secrets about amp building is the parts layout and wire routing topology are everything. The Brown Note layout diagram is worth its weight in gold. The way I figure it, since the layout was free on the Web I was obligated to give them the money for the parts kit. And I got the best audio electronics deal of my career. Did I mention the layout was worth its weight in gold?

I've always been interested in learning about amps, so that I could get what I wanted out of one. . .You know, maybe the "be all, end all" amp just doesn't exist. . .but it sure would be interesting to know more about wiring, capacitors, output trannies, etc. than I do. Do the kit's come with explanations for what "this part" does and doesn't do? How about for someone who's never soldered anything? Would this be something I wouldn't want to wet my feet on?

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 10:51 AM
I can say without reservation that the D'lite is a true giant killer. More importantly, there are few amps that can go against it at any price.

Just to get your context, which D'Lite model are you referring to, and what amps have you directly compared it to, side by side?


One of the best kept secrets about amp building is the parts layout and wire routing topology are everything. The Brown Note layout diagram is worth its weight in gold. The way I figure it, since the layout was free on the Web I was obligated to give them the money for the parts kit. And I got the best audio electronics deal of my career. Did I mention the layout was worth its weight in gold?

Lots of layouts are free on the Web. Here are both the D'Lite and the Overtone kit layouts for a direct comparison:

d'lite (http://www.brownnote.net/shared/images/layouts/D-Lite%20Layout_NO%20BASSMOD_FIXED%20PS.jpg)

Overtone (http://www.ceriatone.com/images/layoutPic/OvertoneLayout/OvertoneSpecial-1April08.jpg)

scottl
05-16-2008, 11:04 AM
I am with Fullerplast on this one. For once... ;)

Regardless of quibbling over several values Nik chose, the OTS is a well built nice amp. If one were to build a DLite with similar sized iron, the amps would be similar. There is no rocket science here and both amps are derived from the same source. THe advantage of Brownnote is that they are a US company and they offer many different voicing options. They also have far more A/B experience. If you are a tweaker, the OTS is just fine. It may also be just fine if you get it and like it. It is however, just one voicing of a whole plethora of D tones.

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 11:07 AM
Sort of true, but I have heard dozens of 50 watt clones with virtually the same values as the OTS.

Hey Scott...you get me confused when you say stuff like this, while also saying that Nik chose some component values that nobody else used.:confused:

I was referring to the Bluesmaster versus standard. That is apples versus oranges and I can predict the outcome. Kind of like comparing a Plexi to a Twin. There are definate differences. OTOH, I think you will flip for this amp! From what I know of your playing, this topography is you! We should get together..

Sounds like a very cool amp! I'd certainly like to check it out. I'd probably like the higher power D'Lites better, especially with the bluesmaster implementation.

Please understand, I think the Brown Note kits are a great value and are very good amps. My comments are simply my personal opinion on the relative tone between the two amps that I own....one of each, D'Lite and Overtone. Obviously, I have nothing to gain or lose by preferring one over the other. (It may even make it harder for me to sell the one I like less.) I'm just offering my own opinion, based on what I like.

908SSP
05-16-2008, 11:32 AM
Keep that stimulus check in America where it can do some good.

BBQLS1
05-16-2008, 11:33 AM
The D'Lites are very nice amps.

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 01:05 PM
Keep that stimulus check in America where it can do some good.

OK not exactly...that price difference as show above is less than a thousand, it's $879.
And yes it goes it goes into the builder's pockets, but not just the amp builder in California, but the:
Chassis builder/Metal Shop located in California,
Transformer builder located in Michigan,
Parts Suppliers located in California, Texas, Arizona, Minnesota, New York, Missouri, Georgia, Illinois, Ohio, New Jersey, etc.
So there you go, that money gets spread around quite a bit and I think that's worth recognizing.

Funny how I never see this concern brought up in Gustavsson, Huber, or Rahbek threads....not once, not ever.:confused:

Considering that this is a global forum, the fact that the OP has not expressed any interest in filtering choices based on country of origin, nor do we even know the country that the OP is from, I'd suggest that we leave the topic of global vs domestic economies and marketplaces to the pub section. Tone and amp topologies are universal topics, not geopolitical ones.

Otherwise, if you feel that strongly about it, you can still buy the less expensive amp, send $100 cash to each of your favorite US builder, chassis maker, tranny maker, and parts supplier of your choice, and still walk away with a few hundred for yourself to buy a couple of tanks of US pumped gas.;)

scottl
05-16-2008, 01:15 PM
We'll have a fun amp day for sure!

Regarding values, the deviations have nothing to do with the size of the tone, they were more OD brightness and aggressiveness. The PI sections are identical. The overall amp vibes are from a common point. That is why they are a tweakers dream!

Hey Scott...you get me confused when you say stuff like this, while also saying that Nik chose some component values that nobody else used.:confused:



Sounds like a very cool amp! I'd certainly like to check it out. I'd probably like the higher power D'Lites better, especially with the bluesmaster implementation.

Please understand, I think the Brown Note kits are a great value and are very good amps. My comments are simply my personal opinion on the relative tone between the two amps that I own....one of each, D'Lite and Overtone. Obviously, I have nothing to gain or lose by preferring one over the other. (It may even make it harder for me to sell the one I like less.) I'm just offering my own opinion, based on what I like.

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 01:23 PM
We'll have a fun amp day for sure!

Regarding values, the deviations have nothing to do with the size of the tone, they were more OD brightness and aggressiveness. The PI sections are identical. The overall amp vibes are from a common point. That is why they are a tweakers dream!

:AOK

How far are you from the CH water tower?


(BTW, I am going to try the tweaks you suggested. I have a couple of gigs this weekend, so I'm not gonna mess with it yet but maybe next week. Be forewarned though....if I don't like them they are coming right out and you'll never hear the end of it again!:D)

scottl
05-16-2008, 01:30 PM
4 minutes!!!! So close... ;)

Wait till you hear these new toyz..... HUGE!!!

:AOK

How far are you from the CH water tower?


(BTW, I am going to try the tweaks you suggested. I have a couple of gigs this weekend, so I'm not gonna mess with it yet but maybe next week. Be forewarned though....if I don't like them they are coming right out and you'll never hear the end of it again!:D)

SW33THAND5
05-16-2008, 01:49 PM
don't forget to pour black epoxy all over it when you are done with the buld. thats where all the tone is :-o

Scott Auld
05-16-2008, 01:59 PM
I am surprised more people do not talk about the Egnater class experience. I guess the time requirement is a factor? Or, do the Eg classroom amps not satisfy the need for D*-tones?

astigtigas
05-16-2008, 02:03 PM
+1 with the D'lite...

Shark21
05-16-2008, 02:56 PM
I have the D'Lite 22 and the Bluesmaster (2x 6L6). Moss built both of mine. I think, however, the original question was with regard to "kits". The price is so close that the consideration that seems glaring to me is the Brown Note Forum. Everything you need to know is compiled there. Also, Moss and some of his faithful kit builders can walk you through the basic build and all of the various "tweaks". Seems like a no brainer to me.
Also, the fact that all the parts for the D'Lite are made in USA has never been more important to some of us. JMHO.

fusionbear
05-16-2008, 02:56 PM
Can you expand on that a little? What did you like better about the kits? Are you talking component / build quality or tonal characteristics?

Thanks!

Build quality is great on both, but the D-Lite sounded clearer to my ears and the controls on the D-Lite seemed to have more range. The overtone seemed to have too much gain in the OD channel that seemed to go from crunch to mud with the slightest twist of the gain knob. I had a hard time getting in between sounds. The cleans on the D-Lite sounded just a tad more 3D than the OT.

brownnote
05-16-2008, 03:25 PM
I am surprised more people do not talk about the Egnater class experience. I guess the time requirement is a factor? Or, do the Eg classroom amps not satisfy the need for D*-tones?

Bruce Egnater=Great guy!
Those seminars are brilliant!

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 04:23 PM
I am surprised more people do not talk about the Egnater class experience. I guess the time requirement is a factor? Or, do the Eg classroom amps not satisfy the need for D*-tones?

My guess would be the latter....

"The finished amp (that you build) is a superb sounding, hand wired Marshall JCM “style” head. "

Price might be another.....$1600 plus travel/lodging/food to/from Michigan would get you a pretty nice factory built amp from any number of builders.

OTOH, you get to learn from a master.....so it all depends on whether the goal is an amp or a learning experience. You build the amp entirely on day 1, theory and mods discussed on day 2. Like guitar clinics, the amount you get out of it often depends on where you stand relative to the rest of the attendees. Bet it's a fun weekend though!

PDXFactory
05-16-2008, 04:53 PM
...The price is so close that the consideration that seems glaring to me is the Brown Note Forum. Everything you need to know is compiled there. Also, Moss and some of his faithful kit builders can walk you through the basic build and all of the various "tweaks".

This is the key point to me - the guys at Brown Note, and their forum are a substantial benefit. The willingness of them to supply and support the DIY'ers among us is pretty awesome. Amp Garage provides an unbelivable amount of support as well (not necessarily D'Lite specific, but it's a well known amp there).

Fusionbear, thanks for adding to your comments - great info! It's always nice to have someone substantiate what they say, rather than just saying 'D'lite' or 'Overtone'...

I'm still really curious about the differences between the Brown Note ODS kits and the built amps...mostly from the tonal side of things. Sounds like the factory assembled amps are more different than I'd expect. I'm really looking forward to assembling the kit - counting on learning a lot from it!

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 05:18 PM
Build quality is great on both, but the D-Lite sounded clearer to my ears and the controls on the D-Lite seemed to have more range. The overtone seemed to have too much gain in the OD channel that seemed to go from crunch to mud with the slightest twist of the gain knob. I had a hard time getting in between sounds. The cleans on the D-Lite sounded just a tad more 3D than the OT.

As you very likely already know, trimmer pots for the OD stage are a critical adjustment for both these amps......the OD stage design is essentially the same for both amps but either can be set to sound very bad or very good.;) I mention this only because your description sounds very unlike my own observations.

Which particular D'Lite model were you comparing?

fullerplast
05-16-2008, 05:21 PM
This is the key point to me - the guys at Brown Note, and their forum are a substantial benefit. The willingness of them to supply and support the DIY'ers among us is pretty awesome. Amp Garage provides an unbelivable amount of support as well (not necessarily D'Lite specific, but it's a well known amp there).

Just a FYI, in case you didn't know, there is a Ceriatone builders forum also, and Ceriatone support on Amp Garage as well. Just keeping the facts straight.....;)

johnrea_77
05-16-2008, 06:13 PM
And one less kit available. Looking forward to a build with a different look.

This is my second amp kit. My first one was an Allen ToneSavor about eight years ago and it came out very well. The D'Lite will use the super deluxe upgrade.

MarkL8
05-16-2008, 07:54 PM
As a D'lite owner I cant say enough about them. Great amp fun to build, fantastic people to deal with. Its almost a year since I built mine and it is a very versatile amp.