Soundclip Ultimate Attenuator w/ Marshall 2061x

[Ulysses]

If you aren't familiar with the Ultimate Attenuator, the name is a bit of a misnomer. It is more of a reamping device than attenuator and the effect is nothing short of remarkable. Now that I'm off the road after 34 years of playing live and loud, I've missed the tone from my old AC30, 50w plexi, etc. because they are just too loud for home use. I'm sure the same thing everyone is going through and I just cannot be satisfied with the compromise of the puny sound of lo-watt boutique amps and especially the mush and fizz from standard attenuators when reduced to "bedroom level".

I've bought boutique amps with power scaling, tried almost all the popular attenuators currently out, master volume amps, etc., no less than five 5-7 watt amps, and nothing feels like my old Marshalls or AC30 and keeps the original characteristics in tact when you attenuate down low enough to play with the family in the house.... until I got this thing. If anyone is used to playing loud for years and frustrated with the feel you get attenuated down to low levels this will change your entire outlook at what amps are available for low volume application. I'm sure this sounds like and ad for this thing but I'm not affiliated nor do I even know the guy that builds these.

You are listening to an Marshall 2061x through a 2x12 Divided By 13 cab loaded with Celestion Golds attenuated down to actual speaking voice level. I made this recording with my entire family asleep in the house. Yes, I could have used a modeling device but listen to the natural room ambience, the muscular mid range, dynamics of pick and finger attack, defined top end, and overall natural sounding live amp signal.

I've made a lot of clips and knowing the characteristics of what happens when, I find it amazing. I also chose a pair of Shure SM-81 small diaphragm condenser mics, usually an absolute no-no for recording guitar. The SM-81's are known for their ice-pick-in-the-ear quality combined with the fact that they are small diaphragm condensers. I wanted to capture the detail of the quick pick attack and finger touch more so than getting a sweet tone. Still, the tone is quite acceptable IMO and surprisingly smooth. Another testament to the UA's amazing ability to maintain an amps character under heavily attenuated circumstances, no fizz and buzz like you would normally get with master volumes, power scaling, and any other attenuator. The sound in the room was big, but very quiet. Not a little bitty sound from a little bitty amp. The notes are firm, muscular, and have well defined top, mids, and lows which you just don't normally hear with an amp attenuated down to bedroom level. I didn't get the gain up too high because I wanted to show how much punch and dynamic range was apparent in the room. It sounds just as phenomenal with an amp in full overdrive.

For the music, you get me on drums, bass, and guitar. I'm not too sure about this riff but I wanted something up-tempo to force the articulation quality of the UA as well. My 1964 Firebird V starts the clip, my 1959 Tele comes in next. The track fades out with the Firebird coming back in on another modern amp with the UA but I didn't like the amp so I faded it out and just let the demo stop there.

Once again, keep in mind that the guitar tracks you hear are at speaking voice level or lower, easily well below what would be considered "bedroom level".


Track time:

0:00 - 0:50 - 1964 Firebird V
0:50 - 1-38 - 1959 Telecaster
1:38 - fade n/a

http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6633726 (http://soundclick.com/share?songid=6633726) (http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=6633726&q=hi)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/UAclip1.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/UAclip5.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/UAClip4.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/UAclip6.jpg


http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...d=6633726&q=hi (http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=6633726&q=hi)

[sinasl1]

sounds great! Nice playing

[dumbell78]

Great track! I love my UA too, everything you say is spot on. It does a great job of taming my 2555.

[JimH]

Sounds fantastic. I've got a similar amp - wish it sounded that good at low levels.
Great playing too, but there's more to it than that. Very impressive.

[HeeHaw]

I really liked that clip and the way that Marshall sounds.:cool:

[Mondoslug]

and with a SM81? Who woulda thunk.

I'd like to check out the UA. Work with any size ohm amp?

[carbz]

I had one when I had my Naylor amp and though it sounded real good from what I remember. To me it wasn't really transparent despite the builders claim though it kind of changed the tone/feel in a good way. The reason I sold it was I was hearing what sounded the sound was coming either through the tubes or tranny at low volumes. It was way annoying and sounded to me like it was damaging the amp. I called the builder and he swore it was safe. I am happy with my hotplate even at highley attenuated levels.

[coolhand78]

sounds great...!

[presence]

I love that playing and that tone...soooo tasty! Thanks! :JAM

(Reminds me of Scofield but even cooler.)

[photios]

Clip sounds great.

I don's use my UA with any of my rigs anymore, but I still can't bring myself to sell it...it works so perfectly with a loud (100 watt) NMV amp (something that I don't own anymore) Now the insides of it looks like spaghetti...really not pretty, but it works so much better than all the other attenuators I've tried that I'm just keeping hold of it in case I add a loud amp to my stable at some future point. Additionally, mine has dual volume setttings option so that I can switch between for a true lead boost that is really cool. I don't even remember how many clean boost pedals I went thru that didnt work...but the dual volume settings on the UA is perfect for boosts and its purely clean. Its a great design that works as close to perfect as you can get in this world...my only complaint is the build quality which I find a bit sloppy....still, in spite of its sloppy build quality, it hasnt ever given me any trouble (knock on wood) and for preserving the tone and feel of your amp at lower volumes, the UA rules IMO.

I've tried the Weber Mass, THD hotplate, Dr Z Airbrake, Marshall Powerbrake and I've also tried PPI-MV's on amps and I think the UA is best.

[mtlin]

I use a couple of Ho's Attenuators. (I've heard that the UA is a rebranded Ho, but I'm not certain.) They work as well as you say. Power scaling is just as good until you get to bedroom volumes. Then Ho's/UA works the best. Perfectly transparent to my ears.

[AnthonyL]

I use a couple of Ho's Attenuators. (I've heard that the UA is a rebranded Ho, but I'm not certain.) They work as well as you say. Power scaling is just as good until you get to bedroom volumes. Then Ho's/UA works the best. Perfectly transparent to my ears.


Mr. Ho is the inventor/designer/builder of the Ultimate Attenuator. I've been to his shop in Vancouver - I lived there for 2yrs. He sells them to the guy here in the states who simply puts an "Ultimate" sticker on the front and re-sells them. You can buy them direclty from Ho, just no sticker, but a lot cheaper...

[donbarzini]

They are all made by Ho and the one I had looked like a bowl of angel hair pasta inside too. They do make your transformer buzz, Ho said it was normal because you can now hear what your transformer sounds like when your amp is cranked, normally you can't hear that. I didn't feel comfortable using it. If I owned a NMV amp again, I'd probably give it another go around as long as I had a spare transformer on hand.

[Ulysses]

They are all made by Ho and the one I had looked like a bowl of angel hair pasta inside too. They do make your transformer buzz, Ho said it was normal.....



Well, you got that wrong. A little excess wire length that is tie-wrapped but far from a bowl of spaghetti. The build is beautiful and they aren't a Ho product. He (Magus Inc.) does hide a circuit ala Howard Dumble with some rock-hard resin as you can see. Very nice, clean build, though. This is not the HO version and I think has been much improved from the older versions.


I've read the doom and gloom threads here before about the UA. I'm going to be enjoying my amps instead of keeping them nice and safe in the closet, regardless. I spoke at length with my tech whom everyone here knows and he explained the UA to me like this. (He uses one at home). Your amp does get hot but it's the same as using it on the gig at the level you are attenuating down from. If you are using a vintage amp, you do increase the wear and tear because you are increasing usage. Much like using your old Jaquar coupe as a daily driver. The deal is this. My amps are unusable as they are at home. I can keep them nice and cool sitting in my closet or get them out and enjoy them with the UA until they are used up, then get them repaired and play them again. If I wanted to keep them in my closet I can do it after they blow. I've been playing my 1963 AC30 daily for about 6 weeks now for hours a day w/ the UA and not a peep or trannies buzzing out of the ordinary. That's more enjoyment than I would have gotten out of it in the next 10 years without the UA.

The point is is that it makes your amps that are normally not usable, usable. I'm just not concerned about wearing them out from use. That's why I bought them. I don't want to call out other brands, they are wonderful amps but the the ones I've had with power scaling just have not been acceptable for my tastes at low volumes. I also don't want to be restricted to what amp I play. I've owned and tried, the Hot Plate, Power Soak, Komet Airbrake (my favorite and traveled with it for years), Mini Mass, and a few others that have passed through my studio and none were even close once you get below the first couple of settings. I've used AC30's and Marshalls for 34 years, 150-200 one-nighters a year and I'm very used to the subtleties and delicate, complex harmonics that I get when using them live. This is the first time I've been able to come even close to getting what I'm used to without the the tone turning to mush when brought down to "bedroom levels". Believe me, I've been trying to find something like this for many years and tries just about everything someone has mentioned. Just thought I would share my experience if there are others who have found themselves in a similar situation.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/ua1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/ua4.jpg

[hogy]

They do make your transformer buzz, Ho said it was normal because you can now hear what your transformer sounds like when your amp is cranked, normally you can't hear that.

Mr. Ho is correct. The UA does NOT make your transformer buzz. It always buzzes when the amp distorts, you just can't hear it because the volume of the amp drowns it out.

[jzucker]

This sounds fantastic. It's the first attenuator-recording I've heard that doesn't sound nasally. How does it work for clean tones?

[Snake Plissken]

Well...,

Well said. My understanding of the UA compared to the Ho is that the UA is built in the U.S. by Magus, to the specs they've developed, using Ho's circuit as the starting point. There's some sort of licensing (if that's even the correct term) arrangement with Ho.

[Ulysses]

This sounds fantastic. It's the first attenuator-recording I've heard that doesn't sound nasally. How does it work for clean tones?


Hi, thanks. I know you have a lot of hands on experience with this. Yes, this it what I was trying to capture... that the midrange content is not mushed out like with every other device I've tried to get my big amps down to volume acceptable at home with the family. It really is as stellar clean. I am very critical with my '63 AC30 especially and don't even like the way a pedal in the signal chain sounds. For the first time I've been able to get a more organic, live sound while recording quietly... taking advantage of things like room ambience and depth of field that I just can't get with a modeler or direct signal. I could have gone either way with the clip, more towards clean or wound uo the gain and it would been just as good. I thought that fine line where it just starts to break up is the hardest to keep natural sounding with a mic and shows off the UA's ability best.

There are obviously some things out of the UA's control that you do lose, like the energy of the speakers moving volumes of air when cranked but it maintains the integrity of the amps inherent sound so well that you don't miss it as bad.

You also need to make sure your amp truly does sound good. High volumes can cover a multitude of your amp's bad qualities. Just the natural compression of our ears tends to make many loud sounds better than they are. If your sound is a little buzzy when loud, you'll be much more aware of it when it is under the microscope so to speak. It will reveal flaws as well. If you rely on lots of effects or super high-gain for your sound the UA won't be of as much value if any. If you rely on delicate harmonics, touch sensitivty, and the dynamic range of your amp for your playing style the UA is priceless IMO.

[jzucker]

Do you have the pro or the regular model? Have you tried the direct line out option? If so, how does that compare to the mic'd sound? Thanks again for demoing this. I emailed them. Maybe I can borrow one and do a video demo of it.

[Ulysses]

Do you have the pro or the regular model? Have you tried the direct line out option? If so, how does that compare to the mic'd sound? Thanks again for demoing this. I emailed them. Maybe I can borrow one and do a video demo of it.


Mine is the regular base model with no additional features. I did have the power handling increased to 200w so I can use my 100w Marshalls but that is it. I've talked to several others about this and most feel like the "plexi" switch and "bedroom" switch aren't really necessary and more natural without. I think it is a little over $400 as the version I have. Not dirt cheap but I don't think you will be disappointed if you just bite the bullet. I've also noticed re-sale is very good. I tried to pick up a used one on Ebay and each time bidding went too close to retail to make it worth while so I just bought a new one.

He does build per order since each is tailored to individual needs. The good news is turnaround from order to delivery was only around 10-12 days. I sent an e-mail describing exactly what I wanted to use mine with and how I wanted to use it. He sent his reccommendation so I went for it. It's been in use over 2 months now and still amazed every tiime I turn it on.

Like everything else you do need to tweak for the sweet spot depending on each sound you are trying to acheive. Pretty simple though and just a matter of finding the optimum spot for your amp's volume knob with the UA's knob where as much natural tone is on tap at that particular volume.

[AnthonyL]

Well said. My understanding of the UA compared to the Ho is that the UA is built in the U.S. by Magus, to the specs they've developed, using Ho's circuit as the starting point. There's some sort of licensing (if that's even the correct term) arrangement with Ho.


That must be a recent change then...

I was in Ho's shop about 1.5yrs ago and he showed me the personal check from the guy at Ultimate ( it was sitting on his desk), as well as the work order detailing the specs/options of each unit, (I think he thought I doubted him). He then pointed to a rack on the wall with units in various stages of completion and said, "those are for him." It was 100% Ho...

[jzucker]

does it have switchable impedance settings?

[AnthonyL]

does it have switchable impedance settings?


Doesn't need one the way he designed it. Works with any setting...

[skhan007]

Great playing!! Man, that was really entertaining- makes me want to go practice right now!

I have recently purchased the UA and use it with my 18 watt Marshall clone and my Divided By 13 JRT 9/15. The UA is perhaps the most useful piece of gear I've purchased in a long long time. Mine is a 200 watter with 2 speaker outs (as opposed to the standard one output) and the bedroom switch. I'm so impressed with how my amps sound when dialed down to reasonable home-playing levels. I was a chunk of change to purchase, but no other attenuator that I've owned/tried sounds nearly as nice.

[Ulysses]

does it have switchable impedance settings?


Hogy has written before on this subject concerning the UA, application with various impedences, and how this works. Maybe he can chime back in. It seems to work equally as well with any 4-8-16 configuration and probably just about anything else. I'd rather someone like Hogy answer.

[hogy]

It's the same basic principle as something like the Airbrake. The UA uses a fixed resistor load that is close to the average of the actual impedance of the speaker in use.

A 16 Ohm speaker offers a 16 Ohm resistance only at a given frequency. At other frequencies this number can be lower or much higher. You measure the actual impedance at different guitar frequencies and calculate the average. That's the value fixed resistor you use.

This is safe within a range. I would not use an UA, or an Airbrake for that matter, at 2 Ohm. Personally, I wouldn't use it at 4 Ohm either, although it is probably safe.

At 8 and 16 Ohm it is safe and I wouldn't worry about it.

Do keep in mind that you are putting a lot of stress on your vintage amp by running it full tilt for extended periods of time. The lacquer insulation on your OT's windings is 40+ years old and has seen thousands of heating and cooling cycles. Eventually it will break down and short out, and then the party's over.

As Ulysses alluded, it's entirely a matter of personal perspective how one deals with that fact, but a fact it remains. When the OT goes, it is not the attenuator that killed it, it's the extended use.

I have an Ultimate Attenuator myself. In fact, I loaned mine to Ulysses, and the rest is history. It is a great device. When I use it with my vintage amps I use common sense and don't run them for hours.

With new amps and stuff I built I run it sometimes for half a day when I'm in the mood. Either way, I have not experienced any problems so far. I've had mine for a few years now.


My advice would be to use the UA at 16 Ohms ideally, with 8 Ohms being safe as well.


The UA is a re-amping device. That is nothing new, people have been running their Plexis into a resistor and re-amping it for decades, at least going back to early Van Halen.

The UA's appeal is that it is a small, self contained unit that makes this easy. You can do the same thing in other ways, with better results even, but it's more of a hassle.
One of my setups that does the same thing better goes like this:

Main amp into resistive load > line level signal into reverb unit (LXP-1) > parametric EQ > 100W Marshall Plexi power amp > two 4X12 cabs. Sounds stupendous at TV level.

Hogy

[jackaroo]

It's the Ho unit with a sticker. No big deal but that's what it is.

I just bought one from Ho.

Keeping it positive, not Ho vs. UA this clip sounds great- the playing is really nice too, but the tone is right on. I'll know more in a week or so.

Thanks for the clip! Great stuff.

Jack

[JDavisNJ]

Sounds excellent! I recently bought an Ultimate Attenuator too. I love it.

-Joe

[JDavisNJ]

Also, which pickups were used? thanks

-Joe

[JDavisNJ]

Sorry to be a pest, but could you also elaborate on the recording chain? Mic position, preamps, etc. Thanks a lot!

-Joe

[Ulysses]

It's the Ho unit with a sticker. No big deal but that's what it is.

I just bought one from Ho.

Keeping it positive, not Ho vs. UA this clip sounds great- the playing is really nice too, but the tone is right on. I'll know more in a week or so.

Thanks for the clip! Great stuff.

Jack


Cool. I could care less who built mine I don't know either of these guys and like Hogy said, he was the one that turned me on to it. I've also read discussions in the past about it and seems like there are always the gloom and doomers. To repeat Hogy, if you burn out your amp it won't be because of the UA, it will be because of the extended use while the gain is wound up, just like if you were actually using your amp as intended. If they do shorten the life of your vintage amp it's only because you are actually putting into more regular use. We should all be so fortunate to actually play our amps enough to wear them out.

So the trade off that it is no different than choosing to gig with your amp on a regular basis. If I want to keep my trannies nice and cool, safely tucked away on the shelf in my closet, it will look just as good on the shelf with the trannies blown. What does it matter if an amp works or not if I'm going to keep it safe in the closet and not use it? In the mean time, I'll be enjoying the hell out of my amps.

Even though it's not an issue for me, I'm still a little confused by the large amount of conflicting information on who actually builds the Magus Ultimate Attenuator. I read that the original design Ho units were problematic and have been greatly improved on. Also that the company Magus Inc., which I got mine from has perfected the design and in fact builds them as a separate enterprise. I've also spoken with someone who actually owns both and said the Magus Ultimate Attenuator is superior. When I ordered mine it was done by e-mail and there were a couple of things that happened as far as minor changes made right before it was shipped that seemed to indicate that this was in fact built by Magus Inc. and not Ho. Is there information somewhere that confirms that they all come from Ho? Just curious and would like to know also because I plan to get another to keep with my working gear.

[Ulysses]

Sorry to be a pest, but could you also elaborate on the recording chain? Mic position, preamps, etc. Thanks a lot!

-Joe


Sure, the chain was simple. Two SM-81's straight to a Roland VS-2480 and phantom powered by the the Roland. The mics were about a foot or so outside of the 2x12 Div By 13 cab then about three feet out. No close mics and they are hard panned L-R in the mix.. I chose not to use any pre's other than the onboard pre in the Roland which is el cheapo at best. There was nothing hi-end about it. I EQ'd the bass (recorded through the same set up and the drums also using only the two SM-81's out 4' from the kit) slightly to pull out a little mud and all else is dead flat. You can actually see the exact position of the mics in the photo I took while doing the clip:

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/UAclip1.jpg

[jackaroo]

Well, I'm not looking to get off topic or into a beef with anyone.

I'm with you as far as using the amps you have and I congratulate you on finding a solution to the volume issues. I'm looking too.

The UA sounds great and so does your playing. I appreciate the time you've taken to do the demo, and I liked it enough to pull the trigger on one of these today after hearing your clip.

As to their origins, However, I think you're misinformed.

I spent 30 minutes on the phone with both of them today. After my discussions... I bought the Ho.

Ho builds the units for them. Mark said so. Ho said so- with the exception of a bunch made in China. That was enough for me.

Bottom line: Who cares?

I got the cheaper unit to save a few bucks. In the end it's not a lot of difference. I know Mark could certainly clear things up with a word or two on his website if he was inclined. So could Ho. I think they're just in business together and both seem happy about their respective ends of the deal. I didn't sense any hard feelings at all, and both guys were nice and straight ahead with me. Good for them.

I wanted to have a unit that did 2 levels controlled by footswitch. Mark told me that unit was not in stock and would be made by Ho. So I went to the source. Also UA charges 200 bucks for that feature so I went straight to Ho and got the 100 watter version with a line out, dual master w/footswitch, and the 100 volt A/C for the same price as the basic UA. So I went for it.

I hope things don't get nutty on this thread, but that's just what I've been told, today, by both of them.

Peace,

Jack

[Ulysses]

I don't have any interest with either builder and other than my e-mail to place an order, have never as much as even spoken with either as well. I'm curious for the reason you say you bought yours. It would be very cool if you or someone with a Ho version could post an internal shot like the one I took to show that they are in fact built the same. That would settle it for good in my mind.

With old threads here saying that people had serious issues with the Ho's and then two posts already in this thread by guys who said their Ho version was poorly wired, I just want to make sure I'm getting a good one at the best price if I buy another. I know the Magus Ultimate Attenuator version is great because I've used it daily for a couple of months and I opened it up to see the workmanship. A pic of the Ho version would put it to rest without all the second (or even first) hand stories.

[jackaroo]

Upon receipt of mine it shall be... oh great Ulysses. ;-)

[jackaroo]

BTW that Marshal cab in the background looks pretty damn nice. Is that "pinstripe"?


And the leslie, tele etc....

[Ulysses]

Yeah that's one of the last of the pinstripes, has metal handles instead of the straps. Fine sound. I have a pair of Leslie's that I push with old Marshall small box 50 watters. I play them with a Memory Man and spread about eight feet apart... sitting out front in the middle the random swirling of the different horns and rotors throws a kaleidoscope of sound patterns at you, never the same thing twice. I swear it's like beams of sound swirling right in front of your eyes and whizzing past your head. And then with the slight modulation and warble of the Memory man's dreamy, lo-fi delay it turns into full blown trip. Sometimes I go in to play around 1am and I don't come out of my room until the sun is up with drool all over the front of my shirt. It's the closest thing I've found to a mind altering experience without chemicals.

[mightysteve]

The Ultimate Attenuator/Ho Attenuator has a 30 ohm resistive load. I bought one, and it sounded fine (*way* better on my amp - a 1956 Deluxe - than the Marshall SE 100), but I was "ultimately" too concerned about the impedance mismatch so I returned it. (Ho charged a modest and reasonable restocking fee.)

I believe Ho will also make a model with a 16 ohm load, but I'm not entirely sure.

- Steve

[Ulysses]

but I was "ultimately" too concerned about the impedance mismatch so I returned it.



Read post #26. I think you'll have some solid, reliable information to go on considering the source. If you do damage the amp, it's only because it is now getting use as opposed to sitting quiet.

[papa taco]

Love my "Ho Attenuator" with my Hayseed 15. I run from the hayseed's 16 ohm output. I don't feel there's much if any risk running from the 16 ohm tap. It sounds awesome. I usually run the hayseed at a mild clip, cleaning right up with the guitar volume. The Ho sounds transparent even at low volumes.

[AnthonyL]

I don't have any interest with either builder and other than my e-mail to place an order, have never as much as even spoken with either as well. I'm curious for the reason you say you bought yours. It would be very cool if you or someone with a Ho version could post an internal shot like the one I took to show that they are in fact built the same. That would settle it for good in my mind.

With old threads here saying that people had serious issues with the Ho's and then two posts already in this thread by guys who said their Ho version was poorly wired, I just want to make sure I'm getting a good one at the best price if I buy another. I know the Magus Ultimate Attenuator version is great because I've used it daily for a couple of months and I opened it up to see the workmanship. A pic of the Ho version would put it to rest without all the second (or even first) hand stories.





Call Mr. Ho and ask him.

3483 Kingsway
Vancouver, B.C
604-432-6009

If it's still the same as when I visited his shop, there's only ONE version. Created, designed, built by Ho. All of them. You CAN pay $150-$200 more if you want it to say Ultimate on the front. They're identical other than the word ULTIMATE, b/c HO builds them all.

Again, I saw the work order from Magus while I was at the shop. It stated exactly what customers ordered from Magus (specs/options) for each unit, and then Ho showed me the units. It's that simple or at least it was then. Ho builds them, ships them to Magus whereupon they add the ULTIMATE name on the front and re-sell. He even joked about it.

I never had any issues at all with several different amps - JCM 800, /13, VHT, and the workmanship was very neat on the inside.

[Ulysses]

Call Mr. Ho and ask him.

3483 Kingsway
Vancouver, B.C
604-432-6009

If it's still the same as when I visited his shop, there's only ONE version. Created, designed, built by Ho. All of them. You CAN pay $150-$200 more if you want it to say Ultimate on the front. They're identical other than the word ULTIMATE, b/c HO builds them all.

Again, I saw the work order from Magus while I was at the shop. It stated exactly what customers ordered from Magus (specs/options) for each unit, and then Ho showed me the units. It's that simple or at least it was then. Ho builds them, ships them to Magus whereupon they add the ULTIMATE name on the front and re-sell. He even joked about it.

I never had any issues at all with several different amps - JCM 800, /13, VHT, and the workmanship was very neat on the inside.


There's actually quite a few "versions" if you visit the website. I'm sure that's the case. I just have to wonder about the problems reported from the Ho models. I did a search here before buying mine and read a lot of negative comments about the Ho model. Already got a couple on this thread. Do you have internal pics of any? Once again, I could give a flying rat's a$$ who built mine. I just see a lot of conflicting info like this:

quote:

"
Magus Innovations, LLC was created in 2004 to manufacture and sell the highly regarded Ultimate Attenuator.
Since then, we have devoloped the Ultimate Tube amplifier and many tube amp management products.
We pride ourselves on the best customer service possible and are always available to answer questions or offer advice.
We are professional players, builders and repair persons and can offer powerful and simple solutions to your guitar amplification needs. "


Also, does Ho build all these versions and other products shown on this site?

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/

even this Tonequest Report says Mark Gregg designed the Ultimate Attenuator. No big deal but if it's not true seems like Ho would want that straight:

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/press.html

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/home.html

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/ua-pro/ua-pro.html

[Ed DeGenaro]

Nice tones...amazing playing!

[JDavisNJ]

Thanks for the recording info! It sounds amazing...both the playing and recording.

Any chance of sharing that backing track??

Also, were your pickups stock?

-Joe

[Paul86]

Great playing + Lots of useful info! = everybody wins

[jlagrassa]

The tone was excellent also love the playing style....sounds like Scott Henderson riffing away!

[BPlexico]

That was a great demo - thank you. I have had my UA for several years and have been quite happy. Jack - if you want a loaner I would be happy to send mine to you - all you have to pay is return shipping. I am in California.

Barr

[jackaroo]

That's cool, I bought one from Ho today so I'll see what's up in 10 days.

J

[Ulysses]

Thanks for the recording info! It sounds amazing...both the playing and recording.

Any chance of sharing that backing track??

Also, were your pickups stock?

-Joe

The pickups are dead stock in both guitars. I certainly have no problem with giving out the backing track, it's just bass and drums.

[AnthonyL]

There's actually quite a few "versions" if you visit the website. I'm sure that's the case. I just have to wonder about the problems reported from the Ho models. I did a search here before buying mine and read a lot of negative comments about the Ho model. Already got a couple on this thread. Do you have internal pics of any? Once again, I could give a flying rat's a$$ who built mine. I just see a lot of conflicting info like this:

quote:

"
Magus Innovations, LLC was created in 2004 to manufacture and sell the highly regarded Ultimate Attenuator.
Since then, we have devoloped the Ultimate Tube amplifier and many tube amp management products.
We pride ourselves on the best customer service possible and are always available to answer questions or offer advice.
We are professional players, builders and repair persons and can offer powerful and simple solutions to your guitar amplification needs. "


Also, does Ho build all these versions and other products shown on this site?

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/

even this Tonequest Report says Mark Gregg designed the Ultimate Attenuator. No big deal but if it's not true seems like Ho would want that straight:

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/press.html

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/home.html

http://www.ultimateattenuator.com/ua-pro/ua-pro.html

I've got no dog in this hunt other than to help my fellow TGP brethren save some $$$.

I was in Ho's shop having my amp serviced when I saw the very Tonequest report you sited, hanging on the wall. I asked Ho what did he think of those attenuators and he burst into laughter. He said, "that's me!" He's generally very soft spoken and speaks in a kind of Korean/broken-English accent. So, when he laughs, it kind of takes you by surprise.

Anyway, as I stated earlier, he obviously could tell I had a look of disbelief on my face. So he took me over to his desk where he showed me a check, for a couple of grand, signed by "Mark Gregg." He then showed me the work order and the units in various stages of completion (yes, this included the various "versions"). He also explained that it had taken him several years/prototypes before he was fully satisfied. He proceeded to open one up and gave me a tutorial in all of its inner workings (the guy's def an electronic savant of sorts). Additionally, he was very familiar with all the attenuators on the market and their design/engineering as well.

But as far as setting the record straight, I did, at several points, inquire about the Ulitmate guys and he simple would just laugh and shake his head. It seemed as though he kind of didn't care. He knew the truth and that was okay, I guess. He just kind of strikes you as this sweet, older gentleman that works in his small shop doing what he loves to do. He could care less about the rest...

All I know is what I saw with my own eyes and simply want to pass on the info. If you choose to pay a couple hundred bucks more for one that says, "Ultimate" on the front, that's up to you. If I do recall, Mark did come on here once and reluctantly agree, albeit a caveat or two, about Ho.

Again, call Ho and ASK him. Be prepared for an interesting conversation and wait for the laugh. You won't forget it...

This all, of course, could have changed since then. Although, the Ultimate website still had a lot of the same verbiage back then. Only one way to find out.

Best of luck

[Ulysses]

That's the strangest story I've heard. So this guy is laughing and shaking his head at a company advertising that they are licensed to manufacture the UA but yet he is the one supplying them for them to sell.

I did find an announcement for the launching of HoElectronics website from over a year ago but it is still largely under construction. With Magus Inc. running a full retail, customer service, and warranty website with licensing for his entire product line complete with all relevant details, specifications, reviews, press, etc., while Ho has nothing posted on his, not even an e-mail contact address he must have more to tell. I would think there is quite a bit more to his involvement with Magus Inc. than just a good laugh and a shaking of the head at something he could care less about....while proudly displaying a Tonequest Report about Magus Inc. on his shop wall? So you are saying I can get a UA the same as mine from Ho for $239?

[AnthonyL]

That's the strangest story I've heard. So this guy is laughing and shaking his head at a company advertising that they are licensed to manufacture the UA but yet he is the one supplying them for them to sell.

I did find an announcement for the launching of HoElectronics website from over a year ago but it is still largely under construction. With Magus Inc. running a full retail, customer service, and warranty website with licensing for his entire product line complete with all relevant details while Ho has nothing posted on his, I would think there is quite a bit more to his involvement than just a laugh and a shaking of the head about something he could care less about. So you are saying I can get a UA from Ho for $239?


I'm surprised he even has any type of website at all... When I first went to his shop, I swear I must of passed the place a dozen times before I found it. It's small, old, loaded with amps and has signed pictures hanging on the wall, mostly famous Canadian bands/artist, of course. He's just this older, humble, Korean gentleman tucked away in a small Korean neighborhood. It's a 1950's era, small, electronics repair store in Vancouver, Canada. Who knows... I know when I walked in I never would have suspected it. I believe I was the first to ever mention him on the board back then. So, up until that point no one knew. So, go figure... I would guess that Ho simply worked a deal with Ultimate to sell/market his attenuators. I could totally see how he would have zero interest or time to set-up a website, market, promote, legal issues, warranties, etc... It's just not him. If someone happens to hear about him or walk into the store, he sells one without the Ultimate logo, that's all.

I think I paid around $300 for mine and I had two options added. For each additional option, he charges half of what's listed on the Ultimate site. At least he did back then.

Call Ho, call Ultimate. Ask them both and then decide...

[Deuce007]

From a couple of latest reviews on HC it looks like Hos Atts. are goin for around 440 USD.

http://reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Effects/product/Ho%27s+Electronics/Perfect+Attenuator/10/1

[mitch236]

I called Ho today and ordered one as well. It is interesting talking to him, he is a wealth of information. And the description of him being an unassuming man is very true. Call him. Save some money.

[Ulysses]

I called Ho today and ordered one as well. It is interesting talking to him, he is a wealth of information. And the description of him being an unassuming man is very true. Call him. Save some money.

How much was it and when is projected delivery date? I'd gladly order one from Ho, I need another for my work gear. The main reason I chose The Ultimate Attenuator is they have full tech support, warranty center, and liscensing in the US for the product. Ho didn't even have an e-mail address and long distance international phone call to Canada can be quite expensive. Also, what kind of import and customs duties will you end up getting hit with? Every time I've bought something out of Canada, I receive an invoice a few weeks later from the Customs declaration clearing house. Once I had to pay $150 on a $350 item. I refused to pay the cost because it was not mentioned in the sale and they turned me over to a collection agancy that filed against my credit report.

[jackaroo]

7-10 business days.

Mine was 450 with a bunch of options 2 levels, footswitch, line out, & 100v tap. The UA was quoted to me 30 minutes before for 440 with none of that stuff, but it's got the sticker. The options alone, if purchased at UA would have been another 300 dollars... @ Ho they cost me less than half of that.

Ironically the tech support and repair that you mention is Ho.

The price of my conversation with Ho was certainly less than the upcharge at UA.

As for the duties... I'm not sure. I'm going to call Ho now and find out. I'll post with an answer in a few.


Uly, maybe just wait a week or so, and let's figure out if the insides are the same as yours, all nice and clean etc. before you order one from Ho direct?


Just a thought.

Jack

[Ulysses]

Hey Jack, unfortunately the seller is usually not aware nor do they have control over what happens at Customs. I bought an AC30 from Canada as well as '60 Strat and even though NEITHER was from country of origin Canada, the clearing house went after me for quite a lot of money. I didn't end up paying it but it was a long fight with a ton of red-tape to get free from the hounding. They turn it over to collection agencies and they are relentless. I did end up having to pay $150 on a $350 item I bought from Canada. The seller assuered my import taxes would be no more than $20. The biggest surprise was the customs clearing house didn't send me a bill until nearly 3 months after the purchase. I don't know on how consistent of basis they enforce import taxes. It's happened to me enough to avoid buying from Canada. I ran up an $82 phone bill once talking to a seller from Canada so that's another reason I chose domestic. Ho should get an e-mail address.

I paid $439 for mine but was told I really didn't need any additional features for the use I had described. My tech's are the guys here locally at Komet Amps and he told me he could add anything I need for a few dollars for parts anyway. Not that I plan on selling mine but I've noticed the used Ultimate Attenuators sell very close to retail on Ebay. I think the name recognition is much greater due to the amount of press in guitar mags.

[troykennedy]

I just ordered a 50 watt standard version from Ho for $300. This is for an AC30.
He suggested I add a 100 watt tap for $25. Said it would take two weeks. Seems like a sweet guy. Very kind on the phone. Not web savvy. Said he would have his son email me when it was going to ship. I'll let you know when I get it and get to gig with it. Pretty cool. We'll see if customs tries to bill me.

[troykennedy]

I have bought a couple of things from Canada before and never got that customs charge. One was a Tokai Les Paul copy for $500. Not a word from customs though. This was about 3 1/2 years ago.

I guess we'll see if it matters.

[jackaroo]

Yeah man... Hogy's the man for sure. Those Komets are something else. I just hope he doesn't get pissed and leave the board like so many other builders and players. A great resource. That puts you near Baton Rougue then I suppose?

As for the taxes thing- I just got off the phone with Ho, and he said he's never had a customer talk to him about it, and that Mark told him there were no duties or surcharges on the shipments he sends to UA.

Given your past Canadian customs experiences, your excitement about the UA and your affiliation/relationship with Hogy another UA might still be best for you.

BTW- That 20 watter in the clip...vintage too I suppose? I like those little guys, but still like the big bottles like KT66 and el34s the most in Marshalls.

J

[AnthonyL]

Hey Jack, unfortunately the seller is usually not aware nor do they have control over what happens at Customs. I bought an AC30 from Canada as well as '60 Strat and even though NEITHER was from country of origin Canada, the clearing house went after me for quite a lot of money. I didn't end up paying it but it was a long fight with a ton of red-tape to get free from the hounding. They turn it over to collection agencies and they are relentless. I did end up having to pay $150 on a $350 item I bought from Canada. The seller assuered my import taxes would be no more than $20. The biggest surprise was the customs clearing house didn't send me a bill until nearly 3 months after the purchase. I don't know on how consistent of basis they enforce import taxes. It's happened to me enough to avoid buying from Canada. I ran up an $82 phone bill once talking to a seller from Canada so that's another reason I chose domestic. Ho should get an e-mail address.

I paid $439 for mine but was told I really didn't need any additional features for the use I had described. My tech's are the guys here locally at Komet Amps and he told me he could add anything I need for a few dollars for parts anyway. Not that I plan on selling mine but I've noticed the used Ultimate Attenuators sell very close to retail on Ebay. I think the name recognition is much greater due to the amount of press in guitar mags.

You're from Red Stick?

I'm an LSU grad...

Anyway, I've never had any duties/fees when I've purchased from Canada. The Canadian guys have to pay. I know this from living there as well as when I've shipped guitars.

I know several other members have purchased from Ho before, so maybe they can chime in...

[Ulysses]

You're from Red Stick?

I'm an LSU grad...

Anyway, I've never had any duties/fees when I've purchased from Canada. The Canadian guys have to pay. I know this from living there as well as when I've shipped guitars.

I know several other members have purchased from Ho before, so maybe they can chime in...

Very cool, what part of town were you in when you were here and what year?

I'm not imagining this, it's a fact. I've gotten nailed no less than a half dozen times over the the last few years with import fees...ESPECIALLY with UPS who submits all receipts to the clearing house. I had a year and a half long fight trying to get out of paying some serious import fees in a vintage Strat, country of origin USA but they still tried and fought until the end and even hit my credit report with it. I bought a new AC30TBX about 5 years ago from a dealer up there and was hit with substantial fees again. I just had to pay a $45 customs fee on a pedal I bought and also $150 on a $350 item that I frefused to pay and ended going on my credit repost whan they turned over to a US collection agancy. There are some cases where I bought the same type of item and avoided anything, it seems random but it happens as much as not.

In EVERY one of these cases the seller swore I would not have to pay anything. Two or three times they said IF I did, it wouldn't be more than $20 so the seller has little control or knowledge of what customs decides to do. I don't care what anybody comes on here and says, it happens all the time and it happens to a lot of people. Do a google search about surprise charges from Canadian customs that sometimes show up months later.

Also, both UPS and DHL have brokerage houses that attach significant surcharges to clear the border. Not sure about Fedex.

here's an Ebay warning to use Canada Post or USPS to avoid additional brokerage (not import duty or taxes which still apply) like I said UPS charged me $150 brokerage fees on a $350 pedal, this was in ADDITION to customs:

http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=[CacheBuster]&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=4&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Freviews.ebay.com%2FBEWARE-HIDDEN-UPS-amp-FEDEX-SHIPPING-BROKERAGE-FEES_W0QQugidZ10000000004607819http://reviews.ebay.com/BEWARE-HIDDEN-UPS-amp-FEDEX-SHIPPING-BROKERAGE-FEES_W0QQugidZ10000000004607819 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5335828753&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Freviews.ebay.com%2FBEWARE-HIDDEN-UPS-amp-FEDEX-SHIPPING-BROKERAGE-FEES_W0QQugidZ10000000004607819)

[Ulysses]

More confusing (and sometimes conflicting) Canada customs info if anyone wants to try and make sense:

http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showthread.php?t=411633

[troykennedy]

Yikes!

[papa taco]

I like Ho. He reminds me of Yoda. And his attenuator is awesome.

[jackaroo]

Mmmmm.

[Snake Plissken]

Uly, maybe just wait a week or so, and let's figure out if the insides are the same as yours, all nice and clean etc. before you order one from Ho direct?


Just a thought.

Jack

I'd definitely like to see a comparison. Whoever you buy them from, they're great attenuators. I'd like a backup, and want to know what's what.

[* velcro-fly *]

If you aren't familiar with the Ultimate Attenuator, the name is a bit of a misnomer. It is more of a reamping device than attenuator and the effect is nothing short of remarkable. Now that I'm off the road after 34 years of playing live and loud, I've missed the tone from my old AC30, 50w plexi, etc. because they are just too loud for home use. I'm sure the same thing everyone is going through and I just cannot be satisfied with the compromise of the puny sound of lo-watt boutique amps and especially the mush and fizz from standard attenuators when reduced to "bedroom level".



Are you "J45" from the LPF ? Nice to finally hear some examples of your playing...very good indeed and a great demo of the UA.

Steve E

[mj07]

My SLP is a whole new animal with my UA. I got it to handle my Major a bit. It handles the 200 watts great. I was blowing fuses with the airbrake, then realized it was not really suited to anything over 100 watts.Not a problem with the UA.

[Freedom]

Thanks for posting Ulysses...i have already ordered my UA (200W ver) and your clip is a nice demo of what to expect from it (although i ll use it with my Super Lead)...

Great tone and playing bro...:AOK

[Ulysses]

Are you "J45" from the LPF ? Nice to finally hear some examples of your playing...very good indeed and a great demo of the UA.

Steve E


Yes, that's me. I actually have posted quite a few clips over there. I have a lot of interest in the tiny, primitive, amps with just 3 tubes from the 1950's and early 60's. Most have 8" speakers. I find they have more widespread character and different voices than all the new boutiques and really even most of the vintage classics. I do have my AC30, blackface Fender, and 1970 50w small box that are the bread and butter sounds I use but if I'm doing tracks on a record I really want to find a voice that stands out, not just the same old Les paul/Marshall tone that has been used to death. I appreciate the Trainwreck and Dumble sounds (I've owned one and had opportunties to play the other on occassion) but tire easily of them and prefer voices that are less refined and have lots of unique character and are also unpredictable from note to note. To me it's a lot like singing voices. I'd much rather hear something on the quirky side that might break up or squeek, or do something unpredictable every now and then, same with amps. I find these tones more often in the small vintage amps and I love to make sound clips with groups of them at once just to show there are a lot more unique flavors out there than the Fender/Marshall/Vox schools or Trainwreck/Dumbles, etc.

[jackaroo]

I totally agree about the little amps w/big character thing. They also record great! Somehow, the lower amp volumes allow different mics and a little more detail/gain out of the pre-amp. However sometimes you just need the classics... AC30 this or Fender BF that for a track.

[hogy]

My SLP is a whole new animal with my UA. I got it to handle my Major a bit. It handles the 200 watts great. I was blowing fuses with the airbrake, then realized it was not really suited to anything over 100 watts.Not a problem with the UA.

I would absolutely not use any type of attenuator with a Major, including the UA.
The Major is prone to blowing OTs as is.

[ukslinger]

So if I'm using one of these to tame a germino lv55 mostly for home use, do I need any of the various options like the plexi and bedroom switch? I play out some, so gig level attenuation would be nice too. But mostly to get good overdrive at low volumes.

[jackaroo]

I'm told the plexi switch just brings in a bunch of highs. The bedroom switch brings it down even lower...how that's possible I don't know. I'm sure some folks like the options, but I skipped them and was encouraged subtly to do so by both Mark and Ho.

I want the amp at least louder than the strings...who doesn't?

[Ulysses]

, but I skipped them and was encouraged subtly to do so by both Mark and Ho.


+1. In so many words I was also led to believe that I would be just as well off without either plexi or bedroom switch when I inquired about the options.

[Ed DeGenaro]

I would absolutely not use any type of attenuator with a Major, including the UA.
The Major is prone to blowing OTs as is.
Plus I can't think of any attenuator that can take the wattage...

[Belmont]

hi guys and girls,my first time here,looks like a great forum.I saw this thread and had to jump in.I have known Yukong Ho for about 20 years now he's fixed dozens of amps for me and my bandmates over the years.I'm lucky because I live blocks away from his shop and he's always had my stuff ready in a couple of days,and charged less than seemed possible,he would bias for free when you bought tubes from him.You'd walk into his shop and there would be Hiwatts, Fenders and Marshalls stacked everywhere.I remember years ago when he showed me early attenuators when he started making them.He made me a load box/variac years ago and has always designed numerous devices.He is a very humble and egoless man and he doesn't even put stickers or labels on anything he builds,very unassuming guy.The truth is he's the inventor and maker of the UA as Mangus Innovations calls it,Ho does just laugh and calls it simply his attenuator,we all know its a re-amp device and that's why it works better than actual attenuators.I bought one recently from a pawnshop and took it to Yukong and had him upgrade it to a 200w load.When I was in his shop there were a couple UA Magnus stickered ones in for upgrades and a couple of his amps.Magnus simply markets them for the USA.As far as the neatness of the wiring and such you have to remember that he is not a boutique amp "soldering artiste" he is an amp repair tech (40yrs)who just happens to design devices for guitarists.I'm glad he doesn't have that "boutique" attitude because he'd charge a lot more,word is getting out and I think we'll see some changes in the future.Well sorry for the long winded post I just hope people know who really makes these incredible devices.

[Belmont]

I'm told the plexi switch just brings in a bunch of highs. The bedroom switch brings it down even lower...how that's possible I don't know. I'm sure some folks like the options, but I skipped them and was encouraged subtly to do so by both Mark and Ho.

I want the amp at least louder than the strings...who doesn't?
I asked him about this, he just adds a resistor to the level control, making its range go from 0 to 5watts total.I find on mine I don't need it as I can get really low volume as is.It's only a $25.00 upgrade though.

[Snake Plissken]

The bedroom switch I never have a use for, though I do like the Plexi switch.

[WurstBurst]

I have the Ho Attenuator. It works exactly as advertised (well, there's no actual advertisements, but whatever).

Highly recommended.

[mitch236]

+1. In so many words I was also led to believe that I would be just as well off without either plexi or bedroom switch when I inquired about the options.

That's funny. When I spoke with Ho he suggested I get the Plexi switch. I guess he listened to what I have and the sound I like. Who knows. Maybe he had a bunch of the parts laying around and decided to sell some. Either way, I wouldn't buy one without the Plexi option because you can always turn it off but can't turn it on unless you have it.

[767400]

I'm a big attenuator fan also. Your tone is fantastic!

[Jack71]

Still no gut shots of the Ho version? I'm with Ulysses on this one. I would need to see the inside.

It's about more than just looking neat and tidy. Bad solder joints and other workmanship issues can lead to bigger problems. I'm not saying that any of that is true with Ho's version. But if it really is a case of Ho building the complete unit and Mangus just slapping a sticker on it, then pics of the inside would certainly support or refute that assertion.

[Belmont]

I really don't want to insult anyone here but,there really is no mystery at all as to who makes,and has always made these units(Ho).I'll post a pic as soon as I can.I think Mark has even publicly stated such and changed his website info.:BEER

[rhythmeister]

Hey all,

Was looking at the UA site and some language there seems to be saying that the UA is good for impedence mismatch. Here's the language:

"The basic unit can be used with 2, 4, 8 and 16 ohm amps or impedance taps and can be used with 4,8 or 16 ohm cabinets in any impedance combination..."

Does that mean I can run off my amp's 16 ohm tap through the UA into a 4 ohm cab safely?

Cheers,
Blair

[vendo]

I just bought a unit from Mr. Ho yesterday while I was in Vancouver. I called him in the morning asking for an attenuator to meet my needs. I wanted a 200w unit with the plexi switch. He told me his turnaround time was a week, and that there was no need to pay him in advance. I explained that I was not going to be back intown for at leats a month so I would drop by, pay him for it and return for it in a month or so time. He paused briefly and told me he would have one ready for me by the end of his business day! No prepayment necessary, didn't ask for a credit card, etc. He took me at my word over the phone that I would be there to pick it up and pay him.

When I went to his shop on Kingsway, all of the descriptors I have heard were obviously true. Very small shop, amps everywhere, etc. Mr. Ho himself is a very genuine and gracious man. I chatted with him for a while and he explained to me how his unit works. I know nothing about electronics but he did mention that it uses a dummy load and reamplifies. Other attenuators according to him just use a bunch of resistors. Anyway, he had several of his units lying around in various stages of build and all of them were build very neatly. There was no mess of spaghetti wiring in anything I saw.

I mentioned to him about how his work in well known on discussion pages like TGP and he just chuckled. After talking a while I totally get the "electronic savant" and "Yoda" comment. He seems simply to be a master technician who sells his product and gets satisfaction from providing his service/products. He has worked for musicians of far greater skill and fame than me (a basement hack wannabe) but he treated me like I imagine he'd treat anybody. He probably knows he could market them heavily and make a fortune, etc but I get the impression he doesn't care about stuff like that.

Anyhow, the "Ho box" I bought is awesome like everyone says. Mr. Ho is a very nice individual. If you're in Vancouver, stop by his shop and pick one up from him. I'm sure you'll have as good an experience as I did.

[mitch236]

My "Ho" should be here this week. Can you imagine my suprise when Mr. Ho calls me personally to tell me that my unit has shipped and wants me to call him back when I get it to tell him what my impressions are. If it is easy, I will take some guts shots but I have to believe that this is the real deal.

[markom89]

Please forgive me if this has already been asked, but is the Marshall a reissue or a real vintage one? Sounds great! Thanks.

[jzucker]

I have one coming tomorrow. It's a 200w version with plexi, variable line out, 100v tap and bedroom switch. I'll be posting clips this weekend using it. I won't get to the full (exclusive) review of it for a week or two since I have about 8 pedals in the queue for review but I'll be using it right away!

[jackaroo]

Ho's awesome...pretty funny guy and I have some pretty great news...at least to me it's a great development in this technology...

Ho called me last week to tell me that my attenuator was done early and would be shipping the next day- Unfortunately for him, I started talking about a concept and we actually decided to build something new. So the gut shot of the attenuator for a Ho vs. UA comparison will be delayed.

Here's what he's building for me:

I, like most folks, love the tone of driving an amp by cranking it not by using pedals. But most of the amps I like are more old school in design. Great tone, but I always miss the echo, reverb FX that get mushy whe front loaded- yes, you can get that with a loop (newer amp) or a wet/dry rig just not with these amps and I wont do the whole W/D thing for live...just too much stuff to lug around.

So, Ho's building my attenuator with a buffered adjustable line out (send) that can be sent to my FX, and then returned (buffered and adjustable again) to the same attenuator box where the FX are fed into their own separate SS power amp...just like the one used to handle the attenuated tone from the amp. The level of the FX return is chained to the output of the 2 level attenuator, so everything rises and falls in level simultaneously. There's a wet out and a dry out and all you need is a single 4x12 or 2x12 wired in stereo to have a wet/dry rig without hauling or buying an extra amp or cab! r you can get the blend from just the wet side a la an amp with a regular loop.

Long winded explanation (sorry) and not for everyone I'm sure...but this is a dream come true for me, as I love my delays on dirty/saturated tones...but don't want to bring the whole w/d rig everywhere.
BTW- for the loop mod was an extra 200 bucks.

I'll give a full review soon.

[blueschild]

Hello guys!
Thanks a lot for info about Mr`Ho craft, you’ve been very helpful ! I’m first time one this forum and I would appreciate a lot if somebody would give me some extra info about HO'S HEAD SWITCHER and maybe custom options for it.
thanks again!

[Snake Plissken]

Ho's awesome...pretty funny guy and I have some pretty great news...at least to me it's a great development in this technology...

Ho called me last week to tell me that my attenuator was done early and would be shipping the next day- Unfortunately for him, I started talking about a concept and we actually decided to build something new. So the gut shot of the attenuator for a Ho vs. UA comparison will be delayed.

Here's what he's building for me:

I, like most folks, love the tone of driving an amp by cranking it not by using pedals. But most of the amps I like are more old school in design. Great tone, but I always miss the echo, reverb FX that get mushy whe front loaded- yes, you can get that with a loop (newer amp) or a wet/dry rig just not with these amps and I wont do the whole W/D thing for live...just too much stuff to lug around.

So, Ho's building my attenuator with a buffered adjustable line out (send) that can be sent to my FX, and then returned (buffered and adjustable again) to the same attenuator box where the FX are fed into their own separate SS power amp...just like the one used to handle the attenuated tone from the amp. The level of the FX return is chained to the output of the 2 level attenuator, so everything rises and falls in level simultaneously. There's a wet out and a dry out and all you need is a single 4x12 or 2x12 wired in stereo to have a wet/dry rig without hauling or buying an extra amp or cab! r you can get the blend from just the wet side a la an amp with a regular loop.

Long winded explanation (sorry) and not for everyone I'm sure...but this is a dream come true for me, as I love my delays on dirty/saturated tones...but don't want to bring the whole w/d rig everywhere.
BTW- for the loop mod was an extra 200 bucks.

I'll give a full review soon.

Cool. Sounds like Ho's Tube Amp without the Tube Amp part.

[alivegy]

So, Ho's building my attenuator with a buffered adjustable line out (send) that can be sent to my FX, and then returned (buffered and adjustable again) to the same attenuator box where the FX are fed into their own separate SS power amp...just like the one used to handle the attenuated tone from the amp. The level of the FX return is chained to the output of the 2 level attenuator, so everything rises and falls in level simultaneously. There's a wet out and a dry out and all you need is a single 4x12 or 2x12 wired in stereo to have a wet/dry rig without hauling or buying an extra amp or cab! r you can get the blend from just the wet side a la an amp with a regular loop.

Long winded explanation (sorry) and not for everyone I'm sure...but this is a dream come true for me, as I love my delays on dirty/saturated tones...but don't want to bring the whole w/d rig everywhere.
BTW- for the loop mod was an extra 200 bucks.

I'll give a full review soon.

Wow, I wondered why they didn't build it that way in the first place. If it works that will have to be an option he adds in the future. I bought mine without any options but I would ship it back to have that integrated.

[jackaroo]

Yes indeed...

He said mine would be the first he's built so we'll see how it works.

I don't think it can fit in the same box. The extra power amp, jacks and wiring take up some more room. The new enclosure is a few inches wider and longer- still small enough to sit on a small box size head- and has rubber feet that are tall enough to fit over an amp handle (3/4") So it would take some doing to add the circuitry I'd imagine.

I'll post some clips and pix when it's here!

J

[AbbeSauniere]

Hey all,

Was looking at the UA site and some language there seems to be saying that the UA is good for impedence mismatch. Here's the language:

"The basic unit can be used with 2, 4, 8 and 16 ohm amps or impedance taps and can be used with 4,8 or 16 ohm cabinets in any impedance combination..."

Does that mean I can run off my amp's 16 ohm tap through the UA into a 4 ohm cab safely?

Cheers,
BlairThey are claiming that the UA can be used as a impedance matcher. This is straight from the Tech section of the Ultimate site. I was wondering the same thing since I currently use a Weber Z Matcher and was wondering how I was going to patch everything together...

A word about impedance and load.
With the UA you don't need to worry about different impedances, mismatches or even plugging in your speakers at all. In other words, you can use any amp with any impedance, 4, 8 or 16 (we even have a 2 ohm option). You can run a 4 ohm amp into a 16 ohm cabinet or any combination you want. You can also use an A\B box to switch cabinets as well making the UA a true impedance matching device."

[Snake Plissken]

They are claiming that the UA can be used as a impedance matcher. This is straight from the Tech section of the Ultimate site. I was wondering the same thing since I currently use a Weber Z Matcher and was wondering how I was going to patch everything together...

A word about impedance and load.
With the UA you don't need to worry about different impedances, mismatches or even plugging in your speakers at all. In other words, you can use any amp with any impedance, 4, 8 or 16 (we even have a 2 ohm option). You can run a 4 ohm amp into a 16 ohm cabinet or any combination you want. You can also use an A\B box to switch cabinets as well making the UA a true impedance matching device."

Keep in mind that the instructions that come with the UA state that "You don't have to match impedance of the head to the spekaers when the UA is switched on (not bypassed)".

[donbarzini]

You know, this is something I thought about for a while, I spoke with Randall Aiken about this once. I would have to agree with cochese. Couldn't the signal just go through a built in buffered loop before it gets reamped?

[jzucker]

You know, this is something I thought about for a while, I spoke with Randall Aiken about this once. I would have to agree with cochese. Couldn't the signal just go through a built in buffered loop before it gets reamped?

or even a dumbleator?

[jackaroo]

Cochese-

The loop's power amp is very small, and weighs a few ounces...so no big deal.

BTW why add more distortion at the re-amp stage? I want what I have...just quiet enough to not shake my whole house. I think this is one application where the cleanliness of SS is best actaully. Light loud and clean power. Perfect.

I'm sure that there are refinements that could be made to this new design- and arguments for having be a loop on the main poweramp that reamps the dry signal rathyer than a separate one makes sense...basically a loop. I asked if we could have a separate one for the FX so that would be a real wet/dry rig- but in one box. I'll just be bringing the 100% wet output back to the second amp and that way nothing gets messed with too much, and I can control the blend at the attenuator.

I guess one could just take the blend on the unit themselves and set the FX levels there and just have the one SS amp doing the whole thing. I like the thought of separating them...but what do I know- this is all new to me. Seems like it could be done...Ho just went with my idea and made it happen.

Yes, this is like having a FOH guy that knows all my FX moves and puts them through the PA- thing is...

I DON'T HAVE THAT LUXURY 99.9% of the time!

What about when I'm rehearsing or just having fun at home.

So anyway, with this one being the first to try this kind of thing I'm sure it will get better from here, but I'm happy to be the guinea pig. I just am so sick of not hearing what I want out of my rig all the time. I think this will really help me get closer to that goal.


Peace-

j

[Belmont]

Sorry but this is a bit of a wasted step. While having the effects routed to a secondary amp is fine in and of itself there is really no need. The way this device works is to run the output of your tube amp into a load and then reamplify the signal through a solid state power section that does not produce distortion of it's own. This is akin to mic'ing an amp in the studio or stage and playing it through the board and applying effects post mic and then it is sent through studio monitors or house speakers. I'm not quite sure why he just doesn't install a buffered parallel loop. You would not need the weight or space of another solid state amp and you could run the attenuated signal to a single speaker. As for using an amp with it's own effects loop with Ho's attenuator once you crank up the amp and start getting output stage distortion the loop will sound just as bad as if you were running effects in front of the amp. I spoke with Ho a few weeks ago and was a little surprised that he was only offering a line out and no loop. This is a step in the right direction but the execution could be better.
this is not a wasted step if you want to monitor your dry and wet signals separately,physically through speakers,which is a far better method than a blended signal through the same cabinet.he's simply eliminating the need to carry another power amp that's all.I don't see this as a waste at all.

[traynor_garnet]

I sold a couple of pedals so I just ordered my Ho attenuator; I cannot wait to hear it!!!!! :P

In terms of options I went for the plexi switch, bedroom switch, 100v regulated AC tap, and the dual volume footswitch.

Ho is also a great guy and really took the time to explain the unit to me. He even talked me out of the 200 watt version because he said I simply don't need it (loudest amp is 50 watts).

Now an agonizing two week wait; of course, my fiancee's reaction may be more painful . . .

TG

[jackaroo]

Well I'm not really looking to make smaller amps louder...but that is a cool option.

Yes indeed, the Guytron does this same trick with the tube power amp w/el34s after the whole el 84 amp that act as the "pre" Great Idea and it sounds very very good...I think the head weighs north of 75 pounds too! I just like the Ho option because any amp can now become more flexible...a D13 with a loop and a Master volume and 2 levels for live use ? Comin' right up...how about a Mashall? Ding! So While the Guytron is an awesome amp and very well engineered...I just though why not have that ability with basically any head?

As for a Bradshaw rig...yep same idea except I don't have to haul a huge rack with a mixer etc and be out 1000's of $$$ for the rig itself...though I'd love to have the ability to do so!

BTW- No one said that a parallel loop would add more distortion. It was a tube power amp that was in question there.

I think Ho just followed my lead in terms of using a second amp for the wet signal. But, as stated in each of my post re: the send to wet- My assumption is that one could get the blend right on the effect itself and send the signal (wet and dry blended) from the second power amp only...just like a loop- into any old regular cabinet. No?

Funny enough- I feel like I've had more trouble explaining this whole thing here than I had describing it to Ho...He understood me perfectly. Ironic that the communication gap is between two dudes that speak English as their first language!

;-)

Just the same...I'm excited.

Peace-
J

[Belmont]

Ho's english is fine,I've never had a problem.You're right I still don't get the "waste" point,nope not gettin it.the guy wants to monitor with two cabs.

[alivegy]

It also seems weird that they just don't make it so you can use a smaller amp louder as a standard feature. According to the Magnus site this feature works with a "second" cab and I found that a bit confusing. Maybe I should speak with Ho again. While I like my Guytron (by the way the head weighs 50 lbs and a Bogner Ecstasy weighs 53 lbs) I would like to be able to use my smaller amps like my Top Hat Club Deluxe and modified Fender Deluxe at home and with my band. Both of those amps are too loud for home use and not loud enough for band use.

It can make a lower power amp louder. The wattage rating of the Ultimate/Ho attenuator is not it's maximum load handling, but rather the power of the reamping circuit. So if you plugged a 5 watt amp into a 200 watt model. I'm sure you would find an increase in volume.

[Belmont]

here's my wet dry rig with a regular Ho Att. the JCM900 is used as a power amp only for the effects signal coming from the line out of the Ho Att. it works extremely well.I love how the line out level is not affected by the main attenuator level,easy to match levels.http://www.meshripples.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/wet31.jpg

[jzucker]

Here's a clip I just did with mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlHUNn_YZ6Y

[Belmont]

nice tone and playing,so is Ulysses clip at the beginning of the thread.

[Ulysses]

Here's a clip I just did with mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlHUNn_YZ6Y

Sounds very good if that is attenuated down to bedroom. Very fat and throaty with no thinned out, mushy mids from attenuating. I think your guitar level is a little soft and boomy in the clip for my taste and I would like more hi's to here some of that killer playing. The backbeat on the drum track is also killing me on my little computer speakers but please don't mind my two cents....may be just the way my speakers play it..

What are your initial impressions? I find there's a three way tweak to find the sweetspot for each tone you go for. I start by getting my amp in the ballpark of the sound I'm going for then attenuate down to the level I want. Then it takes me a little time to find the sweet spot by raising and lowering both UA and amp to fine tune to get the optimum reproduction of my amps sound, then slightly tweak my guitar. As a general rule, I find I end up raising the UA level to give back a little input then lowering the amp a good bit from where I initially start my sound and still maintain the same overdrive at low level. At least for me it's not been a device you just plug in, dime your amp then crank down on the attenuator. There's a balance in there to be found for each sound you go for.

[hogy]

It can make a lower power amp louder. The wattage rating of the Ultimate/Ho attenuator is not it's maximum load handling, but rather the power of the reamping circuit. So if you plugged a 5 watt amp into a 200 watt model. I'm sure you would find an increase in volume.

That's definitely not true. I have the 200W version and that does indicate the handling. The UA also does NOT make a smaller amp louder, If I run a 15 Watter into my 200W UA, it never gets louder than the amp unattenuated, even with the UA's volume at max.

[Ulysses]

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/ua1.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y127/swlabr/ua4.jpg


If anyone can add internal pics of various versions in this thread it would be appreciated. -Uly

[traynor_garnet]

The "200 Watt" option refers to the unit's ability to handle/attenuate high volume amps (100 watt amps need this option). This has nothing to do with boosting an amp's volume.

The "Wattage Doubler" option does allow you to make an amp louder. Since the UA is a reamping system, the wattage doubler allows you to reamp the attenuated signal at a louder volume than your amp can do on its own.

TG



That's definitely not true. I have the 200W version and that does indicate the handling. The UA also does NOT make a smaller amp louder, If I run a 15 Watter into my 200W UA, it never gets louder than the amp unattenuated, even with the UA's volume at max.

[WurstBurst]

If anyone can add internal pics of various versions in this thread it would be appreciated. -Uly

Here are pics of the internals of my Ho Attenuator.

I'm not an expert, so I won't comment on whether this is the same or different from the UA build.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/windsleeper/hoattenuator001.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/windsleeper/hoattenuator002.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/windsleeper/hoattenuator003.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/windsleeper/hoattenuator004.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/windsleeper/hoattenuator005.jpg

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l274/windsleeper/hoattenuator006.jpg

[hogy]

Wow.

These things are all over the place.

[shuie]

Wow. Not a lot to it. I really hope one of these guys has a patent on this device. The $50 Chinese version will probably hit eBay before the holiday weekend starts at close of business this Thursday. The cloners should have a kit available within the next two weeks. Marshall and Fender are probably in a race to steal the design, patent it, market it as their own, and have it in production within the year.

[Snake Plissken]

Here's another Ultimate:





http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x318/ss1976/UA1.jpg


http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x318/ss1976/UA2.jpg

[okie]

Here's my Ho built attenuator that I got here on the TGP emporium:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p136/okiegibson/Guitars/IMG_0582.jpg

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p136/okiegibson/Guitars/IMG_0581.jpg

[troykennedy]

Good grief! Is anyone making sense of these things? Does it look like the HO version is a rip-off? Are they just nuances of the same design? Cheaper parts or more advanced parts etc....

I ordered the 50 watter from HO a little while ago at not much of a discount from the UA version. I will try and give him a call tomorrow so he knows this is a topic of discussion. That a bunch of guys are comparing the guts to the Magus versions and asking questions. If something is squirrely it needs to get cleared up.

[Ulysses]

I don't think there is any rip-off going on here whatsoever. Just looks like two different builds from two different people which is what I was told in the beginning. Everybody that comments says they love their respective attenuator and they seem to sound identical. They are both an excellent units, we all know Ho is the original designer and Magus Inc. is lisenced to build and distribute the "Ultimate Attenuator" version in the US.. It really does appear there are two distinct builds here. The UA's seem consistent with parts and build technique and the Ho's likewise. Each even has a distinctly different substance hiding the values of components on the PC board. At this point and from what I've seen, I do NOT believe these are both built by the same person as many here have insisted. Now let's go play them....

[Mickey_C]

The toroidal transformer in the UA is a big upgrade. Not being too critical, but I don't think the HO is built to the same standards; it doesn't appear so judging by layout and wiring. I'd be pretty surprised if that unit passed CE inspection. The UA just appears better executed across the board.

No offense intended to HO, just an observation.

[Macaroni]

:munch

[mtlin]

The toroidal transformer in the UA is a big upgrade. Not being too critical, but I don't think the HO is built to the same standards; it doesn't appear so judging by layout and wiring. I'd be pretty surprised if that unit passed CE inspection. The UA just appears better executed across the board.

No offense intended to HO, just an observation.

What's the benefit of a toroidial transformer?

[mitch236]

I'd be pretty surprised if that unit passed CE inspection.


Where is this comment coming from? Are you implying that the "Ho" is unsafe?

[jzucker]

What's the benefit of a toroidial transformer?

lower weight, higher efficiency, lower noise.

I couldn't be happier with my UA . It's going to save my marriage. ;)

[clarkydaz]

for those with a ho version would it be worthwhile swapping out for a toroidal transformer?

[Mickey_C]

The UA unit does not have parts hanging off of the power transformer mounting. Kludges like that will not muster pass a CE inspection. UA has got them properly mounted. The Ho also has a very thrown together look, which is eyebrow raising to say the least. It's not very re-assuring.

The circuit itself is simple enough - a complimentary BJT emitter follower running from split rails (a pos and neg power supply)forming a type of buffered variable power supply using the speaker as a load and the amplifier output as the power source (though obviously there will still be an AC Mains connection for the split rail supply). Your amplifier's output drives a resistive load, NOT REACTIVE, which drops the signal down to a level which is tapped into the emitter follower circuit. In a nutshell - it's a re-amplifier with the simplest possible 2nd amp. I have heard that Ho designed it, and he deserves serious Kudos for that. But the UA is executed professionaly.

I would be seriuosly surprised if either version didn't color the sound somewhat - however, that can be good or bad, and from Kerry's clips I would say it's a good re-amplifier.

What effect the resistive load has on your own particular amp would be dependent upon how well the feedback loop is designed; it may or may not cause your amplifier to oscillate at high-frequencies (beyond hearing) that could damage an OT. Or not... I haven't benched one yet, so I don't know.

Either way, it's very clever... hats off to all folks involved in this one.

[Mickey_C]

One other thing:

I am surprised neither Ho or UA added a buffered FX loop to that circuit. It would've been trivial, and incredibly useful. You could then apply your effects to the whole amplifier chain, including the sound of the OT!

Maybe somebody could feed that back to them for a V2 model?

[mitch236]

I'm not a expert so could you explain this. What parts are hanging off of the power transformer mounting? I just want to know, because I could tell Mr. Ho what feedback his product is getting and I'm certain he would consider all input.

I will mention the buffered effects loop. I'm sure he would add it if it's possible.

[Mickey_C]

The load resistors. They connect to the input on that 12ga copper wire (or so it appears in the picture).

By the way - on the circuit details, I didn't divulge any secrets there - Kevin has published the bulk of the circuit in TUT4 - a worthwhile tome, to say the least.

[alivegy]

One other thing:

I am surprised neither Ho or UA added a buffered FX loop to that circuit. It would've been trivial, and incredibly useful. You could then apply your effects to the whole amplifier chain, including the sound of the OT!

Maybe somebody could feed that back to them for a V2 model?

I was surprised by this too, it seems like with the way it is designed that would be a really easy addition and you could add all of your reverbs and modulation effects post powertube distortion. I'm hoping to ask if mine can be modded in a little bit.

[mitch236]

I talked to Mr Ho today and he came up with a better idea. He is building me an attenuator that has a wet/dry setup. There will be one dry channel that is the attenuator and another channel that is also attenuated but has a loop. That way, if you just want to use the loop, you can but if you want a wet/dry setup with only one amp head, you can. You still need two speaker inputs but that could be done by wiring your cab to be stereo.

[mitch236]

Are you saying that having an amp with negative feedback is a bad thing when using a re-amping product like the UA?

Man, I'm really learning alot about these products!

[hasserl]

A purely resistive load *COULD* cause an issue for an amp design with an inherently unstable NFB loop. It depends on the resistive load and the amp. Obviously an amp like the OP uses doesn't have an NFB anyway. So now it's just the case that the load isn't reacting like a speaker (differing impedance to frequency).

FWIW - nearly every amp tech in the world uses a resistive dummy load for amp testing, so it's not the end of the world (though that's not prolonged usage - and all amps would be better if builders did this with every amp they ship, for sure... reducing the likelihood of the problem). It's still not as good as a reactive load though - bottom line however, if it's not causing damage - WHAT SOUNDS GOOD IS GOOD.

We have other threads on resistive loads here on TGP - search for ATTENUATORS and MERCURY MAGNETICS WARRANTY.

Yeah well, most amp techs use a resistive dummy load of the correct impedance for the amp, not twice, three or four times what the amp should see. But what the heck, let's not quibble about details.

If the OT blows or the tube sockets arc don't blame the UA, the guys right here say so. The problem must be with the amp.

[Belmont]

the "negative feedback loop" seems to be surrounding Ho's reputation.it's too bad word got out about his invention and now I have to read about his good name being called into question,sad.

[traynor_garnet]

Yes, it does seem that some users want to find a difference between Ho and the UA.

What's funny is that despite all the theoretical arguments about why this thing isn't safe/good, we don't really have any actual cases of bad things happening to people's amps. I'm not disputing anyone's technical claims, but how many of these things are being used everyday without problem?

TG


the "negative feedback loop" seems to be surrounding Ho's reputation.it's too bad word got out about his invention and now I have to read about his good name being called into question,sad.

[Belmont]

criticizing his work is fine,but people are questioning his honesty and integrity,not cool.If you don't know the facts,shut yer face. p.s. not you Mickey C

[Dave_C]

I had one when I had my Naylor amp and though it sounded real good from what I remember. To me it wasn't really transparent despite the builders claim though it kind of changed the tone/feel in a good way. The reason I sold it was I was hearing what sounded the sound was coming either through the tubes or tranny at low volumes. It was way annoying and sounded to me like it was damaging the amp. I called the builder and he swore it was safe. I am happy with my hotplate even at highley attenuated levels.

I had one too, but sent it back for the same reasons, plus my amp was getting incredibly hot when using it. That said, it made every amp I used sound smoother and darker than the original amp tone, which I kinda' liked. But, it was very far from transparent. I did a little shootout with the UA, Air Brake, MASS, Hot-Plate and Power Brake. I thought the Air Brake was most transparent, but didn't attenuate down low enough before getting into the 2nd rate "Bedroom" setting. The UA was great for taming bright amps and getting a super creamy lead tone. The MASS did the same kind of thing. Overall, I'm still waiting for someone to make the real ultimate attenuator. Anyone try The Leash yet?

Anyways, that all said, the Marshall clip with the UA does sound! I really love the tone! But, I'd bet the unattenuated amp, with a bright Tele and those bright Celestion golds would not sound as warm and fat. I'd bet the UA, with its 30+ ohm input load is warming up and smoothing out that tone quite a bit.

[Dave_C]

I just have to wonder about the problems reported from the Ho models.

There were also lots of problems reported with the early Magus models. But, it's pretty clear they're one and the same and whatever problems were occuring have been cleared up by Ho, who obviously builds them both.

[zerocharisma]

What would be really interesting (if at all possible) would be to ask if you, Ulysses could make recording of the clip using the same backing track, except without the UA...perhaps when you have some time with the family out of the house. Like others, I really love the tone you got with it. But it would be an interesting comparison. For a long time, I've resisted going without an attenuator for my Marshall, however, your clips have really piqued my interest.:phones

[Snake Plissken]

Curious stuff...

A 30ohm input load? So you set your amp for 16ohms then? You were deflecting twice the nominal primary impedance - and it's a resistive load. There could be some work arounds, depending on what amp you had, possibly as easy as popping out a pair of tubes, which would make it the same as running a 16ohm load again. You might try that - if you have a four power tube amp.

A hotter than normal transformer could be indicative of an inaudible oscillation issue. Was the transformer buzzing, or vibrating, at all when you touched it?

If you match the impedance up better, with a trick like that above, that might stop the problem too.

They bill the HO/Ultimate as safe for 4, 8, and 16 ohm amps. Personally, I only run it with an amp set for 16.

[mitch236]

So if I have an amp that can be set for 4,8 or 16 ohm, I would be better off setting the amp at 16 ohm when using the UA or the "Ho"?

[jzucker]

What would be really interesting (if at all possible) would be to ask if you, Ulysses could make recording of the clip using the same backing track, except without the UA...perhaps when you have some time with the family out of the house. Like others, I really love the tone you got with it. But it would be an interesting comparison. For a long time, I've resisted going without an attenuator for my Marshall, however, your clips have really piqued my interest.:phones

I'm going to be doing a video demo this weekend demonstrating some of the capabilities of the unit including bypassed vs attenuated tone. I have several clips on my product demos page utilizing the UA unit.

[Snake Plissken]

So if I have an amp that can be set for 4,8 or 16 ohm, I would be better off setting the amp at 16 ohm when using the UA or the "Ho"?


I'm making NO recommendations, I just don't have the knowledge. On one of the threads discussing this in the past, using the 16 ohm tap on your amp (if possible) was recommended.

Ho and Magus insist that the 30-ohm load is safe for for 4, 8, and 16 ohms. I've trolled many boards researching the topic, and found that folks are using the UA/Ho with all of those settings without any problems. I've also found that opinions about the 30-ohm load in general are split. Some say no problem, some say you're asking for trouble (reputable sources on both sides). My own amp tech said no problem. The few published articles I've read reviewing the UA barely even mention it. What's the truth? Beats me. Ho's certainly a guy who knows his stuff amp wise, but I have no idea why he chose a 30-ohm load, as opposed to a more easily matched impedance.

[hogy]

I have no idea why he chose a 30-ohm load, as opposed to a more easily matched impedance.

I tried to explain that earlier in the thread. A 16 Ohm speaker only represents a 16 Ohm load to an amp at one specific frequency. In actual use at higher frequencies the load goes way up. So you look at the actual load line across the guitar's frequency spectrum and calculate the median value and you're going to come out very near 30 Ohms.

[Snake Plissken]

I tried to explain that earlier in the thread. A 16 Ohm speaker only represents a 16 Ohm load to an amp at one specific frequency. In actual use at higher frequencies the load goes way up. So you look at the actual load line across the guitar's frequency spectrum and calculate the median value and you're going to come out very near 30 Ohms.

And that's one of the things I've heard from a couple of different sources. How do you feel about using a 4 or 8 ohm amp into a 30 ohm load? I've got an 8 ohm'er I'd love to try with the UA.

[Ulysses]

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbz http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=4290014#post4290014)
I had one when I had my Naylor amp and though it sounded real good from what I remember. To me it wasn't really transparent despite the builders claim though it kind of changed the tone/feel in a good way. The reason I sold it was I was hearing what sounded the sound was coming either through the tubes or tranny at low volumes. It was way annoying and sounded to me like it was damaging the amp. I called the builder and he swore it was safe. I am happy with my hotplate even at highley attenuated levels.


I had one too, but sent it back for the same reasons, plus my amp was getting incredibly hot when using it. That said, it made every amp I used sound smoother and darker than the original amp tone, which I kinda' liked.
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I think Hogy has already stated that the Ultimate Attunuator is not the cause the noise you are hearing from your trannies and tubes and neither the heat. Your transformers will always make that noise when you have the amp that wound up, you just can't hear it without attenuating the level down this low. Same with the heat. The heat represents the same heat you would get operating the amp at the gain level you choose.

I've been slamming my vintage 1963 AC30 several hours every day for almost three months now with the UA and no issues whatsoever. Same with my vintage 50w Marshall. You do decrease the life of your amp but only because you are actually using it. It's the same wear and tear you would get if you gigged it with the amp at the same settings. Yes I am giving it extra wear and tear. It is much like using your garaged vintage Jaguar E-Type for a daily driver. The positive side is you actually get to use and enjoy. I'd rather use my amp than look at it. If my AC30 flames tomorrow, I will have already got to enjoy it at home more than I would have in the next ten years without the UA. I'm a career player that spent the last 34 years on the road, 150-200 one nighters per year... I'm so used to getting the sound I like and know the touch sensitivity, dynamic range, give and take, etc., of my amps very well. The master volume, power scaling, and standard attenuator otions I've tried just have not been acceptable to my ears. I can honestly say I've bought no less than 20 amps, attenuators, and iso cabs recommended for volume reduction in the past two years trying the type of sound and feel I like at low volume and have not been satisfied until now.

Yes, there is coloring I find in a kind of good, warm, way, but no fizziness or mushy mids like with other options as you can hear in the clip. But.... I find if I set my amp at the desired level of overdrive, attenuate it down with the UA, THEN.. restructure the stages by lowering the amp and raising the UA to find the sweet spot it pretty much comes back. It does take some tweaking.

Last, the Ho is an excellent unit and he is the designer of the device. He DOES NOT build the UA as stated in an above post. He is in partnership with Magus and receives payment for each UA sold but has sold licensing for manufactring and distribution in the USA to the "Ultimate Attenuator" brand name owned by Magus Inc. Magus then standardized the build, increased tolerances on certain parts, then like many manufacturers, sub out the construction overseas. Ho does not build it and you can look at the two and see the UA is very standardized and the Ho model varies quite a bit from unit to unit. He does build some of the special order designs that aren't standard UA models for Magus. After all the speculation I wanted to get to the bottom of this myself.

The main thing is that the Ultimate Attenuator is not the cause of heat and extra trannie noise, it's because you are using the amp at high levels attenuated down to a volume you generally don't associate over-heating
with. The amp is still being driven extremely hard but it's not because of the UA, it's because you are turning it up. If you like to baby your amp and keep it nice and cool in the closet it's probably not for everyone. My amps are now getting heavy use at home but I'm enjoying them like never before. They will look just as good in my closet once I burn them up. If I burn them up it's only because I'm using them at levels I haven't been able to use at home, no different than if I were gigging them live. I am actually enjoying them rather than keeping them nice and cool in the closet. After all, this seems to be the whole point for owning cool amps to me.

[Belmont]

Quote:
Originally Posted by carbz http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=4290014#post4290014)
I had one when I had my Naylor amp and though it sounded real good from what I remember. To me it wasn't really transparent despite the builders claim though it kind of changed the tone/feel in a good way. The reason I sold it was I was hearing what sounded the sound was coming either through the tubes or tranny at low volumes. It was way annoying and sounded to me like it was damaging the amp. I called the builder and he swore it was safe. I am happy with my hotplate even at highley attenuated levels.





I think Hogy has already stated that the Ultimate Attunuator is not the cause the noise you are hearing from your trannies and tubes and neither the heat. Your transformers will always make that noise when you have the amp that wound up, you just can't hear it without attenuating the level down this low. Same with the heat. The heat represents the same heat you would get operating the amp at the gain level you choose.

I've been slamming my vintage 1963 AC30 several hours every day for almost three months now with the UA and no issues whatsoever. Same with my vintage 50w Marshall. You do decrease the life of your amp but only because you are actually using it. It's the same wear and tear you would get if you gigged it with the amp at the same settings. Yes I am giving it extra wear and tear. It is much like using your garaged vintage Jaguar E-Type for a daily driver. The positive side is you actually get to use and enjoy. I'd rather use my amp than look at it. If my AC30 flames tomorrow, I will have already got to enjoy it at home more than I would have in the next ten years without the UA. I'm a career player that spent the last 34 years on the road, 150-200 one nighters per year... I'm so used to getting the sound I like and know the touch sensitivity, dynamic range, give and take, etc., of my amps very well. The master volume, power scaling, and standard attenuator otions I've tried just have not been acceptable to my ears. I can honestly say I've bought no less than 20 amps, attenuators, and iso cabs recommended for volume reduction in the past two years trying the type of sound and feel I like at low volume and have not been satisfied until now.

Yes, there is coloring I find in a kind of good, warm, way, but no fizziness or mushy mids like with other options as you can hear in the clip. But.... I find if I set my amp at the desired level of overdrive, attenuate it down with the UA, THEN.. restructure the stages by lowering the amp and raising the UA to find the sweet spot it pretty much comes back. It does take some tweaking.

Last, the Ho is an excellent unit and he is the designer of the device. He DOES NOT build the UA as stated in an above post. He is in partnership with Magus and receives payment for each UA sold but has sold licensing for manufactring and distribution in the USA to the "Ultimate Attenuator" brand name owned by Magus Inc. Magus then standardized the build, increased tolerances on certain parts, then like many manufacturers, sub out the construction overseas. Ho does not build it and you can