Line 6 gig report

[Miles]

I realize at least 90% of the people here will care less, but...

I have always been a tube amp only person. I play in an all original alternative/art rock band. We're a bit of an amalgamut of sorts in that we range widely from melodic rock and roll, to experimental/industrial tribal music, to pop. I am the main writing source in this band and I write about 90% of the material. I am a minimalist of sorts as well because I never put anything down on disc that I cannot reproduce during live performance.

So, after gigging my voodoo modded dual rec, Rivera Chubster, Genz Benz Black Pearl, and Mesa Lonestar Classic with this band, I still didn't have all the sounds I wanted.

So, on a whim, I bought a line 6 Flextone III 2x12 combo with the FBV shortboard about 6 weeks ago.

I took two weeks getting to know the amp and originally intended to use it as backup only.

However, I took it to a rehearsal and it blew me and my bandmates away.

So, I started a thread here and got slagged saying " I would never cut through the mix "... to be honest, this stereotype scared me a bit, but I took a leap of faith, carefully programmed the Flextone at rehearsal and brought it to our next gig. Well, we played a decent gig at the Bluebird theater last thursday to about 350 people and my sound was superior than it ever had been before. Not only did I cut through, but I received huge compliments on how articulate and huge my sound was. My cleans...huge, light ODs...huge, Higher gains....huge... Everything dead quiet when not playing and all of these sounds plus some tasteful effects available at the touch of a button on a hell of a budget. I had a couple audience musicians asking which amp I had played through. When I said the Line 6, they just shook their heads and said "I guess the rules have flown out the window".

I wasn't even going to the board direct, just mic'd up on axis with a good old SM57. I turned up full enough on stage with a slight monitor mix. The soundguy said I made his job very easy and that this equipment, used well, is a great asset. I just used a good clean Plexi model, a lightly overdriven bogner XTC, and a well driven bogner XTC model for this gig. All patches totally dry with the effects programmed, but turned off ready to be turned on when needed. So, I used patches 1A, 1B, 1C, that's it, and I heard so much good feedback about my tone. I was almost disappointed. I KNOW how to dial amps in, I KNOW how to cut through, and now these people are telling me that my history of $1,500 tube amps was all for nought??? You have got to be kidding me.

Well, I love tube amps, and I realize there are superior digital guitar amps out there, but this one has beat out a lot of higher end tube amps for a pretty large theater.

THEN, two days later, we go into the studio at Monument sound here on Colorado. These guys know what they are doing, and they kind of griped a bit when I started plugging the flextone III in. However, I ran into the board direct and we recorded 6 very difficult songs live and got all of the instrumental scratch tracks and the master drum tracks done for these songs in four hours. The scratch tracks sound phenomenal. Monument sound uses everything from little smokies, to JCM800s, Prosonics, Bogners, and a '67 Bassman to record. BUT, Chris asks me to bring my flextone back on Wednesday for me to lay out the rest of my "official" tracks for the recording.

It's a good tool that does a good job for me, and I'm a total convert to the digital world from here on out.

The next jump for me would be a more advanced system like AXE-FX with the foot controller, into a poweramp, into an oversized stereo 2x12. But I am a private school teacher father of two at the age of 25, so, that won't be happening for a little while.

This amp is killer, and I would have slagged it and burned it mercilessly for years before.

What a learning experience. I have swallowed my own foot on this one big time.

Your thoughts?

[Mr. Brady]

Blasphemy. Stone him. :D

[electronpirate]

Good stuff there.

I've seen more than a few local bands here in Denver sporting the Line6. Like you said, it is HIGHLY dependent upon the one dialing it in. One person (in Fado, no less) had fantastic tone, he went from Cleans to mild dirt, and pulled out a great slide tone as well. I was highly impressed.

I'm an AFX guy, so I'm a total convert on the modeling thing, and never really had a beef with Line6, just thought the AFX was better.

My favorite part is my tone is totally consistent from night to night.

[stratzrus]

Your thoughts?Finding an amp that works for you and sits well in the mix is more important than preserving preconceived notions and prejudices.

Your post also reflects the importance of dialing in an amp properly no matter what you are playing; modeler or boutique.

There's little that beats the feeling you get when it all comes together on a gig and not only are you lovin it, but the audience and sound men confirm.

Sounds like a winner to me.

[mude]

It seems like there are at least 2 components to good tone.

1. Does it sound/feel good to you while you are playing such that it helps you create good music?

2. Does it sound good in the mix and to the audience?

I definitely think there are some amps that sound great and warm, etc. when playing alone, or in a store, etc. Sometimes, these are not necessarily my favorites in a band setting, or out to the audience.

Other amps probably would not be my first choice on their own, but really cut through and fit perfectly in the band context.

Perhaps you have found something that works for you in the band situation and out in front, even if it was not your pure favorite if listening all by itself.

In some ways, it is kind of like a Tele to me. I stayed away from them for years because they never really grabbed me when i noodled around on one in stores. But now, I find that I love them in the right context.

Evan.

[popsongsmith]

If Robben Ford doesn't use it, it might as well not even exist...http://www.thegearpage.net/board/images/icons/icon12.gif

[ecbluesman54]

I gigged with a Flextone III and the FBV shortboard for a couple of years in a cover band. I always liked that setup was a breeze, it sounded good, and was consistent. I have no gripes against Line 6, and itsd good to hear it is working for others as well.
Congrats

[dc_jcm800]

I just subbed in on a pit gig this past weekend at the last minute.
I brought my Les Paul and a small pedal board as I was told I would not have much room.
The amp was one of the new Line 6/Bogner spider valves. I dialed in a really nice cleanish sound and used a TS9, wah and delay pedal.
The amp sounded really nice.
I did not have much time to mess around with it, but it seemed like a decent gig amp.

The guitarist I subbed for loves it and also uses a flextone for bigger gigs.
He states he spent alot of time dialing it in (both amps) and it works great for him, giving him exaclty what he needs for his gigs.

I wonder how the reliability on these things are? I know there is plenty of info out there.
I have been a diehard Tech 21 user for almost 10 years. I set mine pretty clean and use pedals with awesome results.
I wouldn't mind a "all-in-one" grab and go gig amp.

[drgonzoguitar]

I have been gigging with a Line 6 Spider Valve 1x12 for over 3 months. Other than breaking the knob for the master volume (just the plastic knob, not the pot.), I have had no issues. It has made my gigging life easy....

[Deville2Rocket]

How did it "feel"?

The thing about tube amps Vs. solid state for me has always been about feel. There's this cool, organic thing that happens between a player and cranked tube amp that I've never felt when playing a SS amp.

Am I nuts, or is this perceived phenomenon real?

[drgonzoguitar]

How did it "feel"?

The thing about tube amps Vs. solid state for me has always been about feel. There's this cool, organic thing that happens between a player and cranked tube amp that I've never felt when playing a SS amp.

Am I nuts, or is this perceived phenomenon real?

The Spider Valve feels real. It honestly sounds better the more you turn it up (PI and power amp tubes start to work!). In a way, it is no different than Music Man amps of the 70's.

I do know what you mean, though. I have played some pretty sterile SS amps/amp sims that seem to kill any mojo that you are trying to build.

[jspax7]

If it works for you, it works. Period.

[Franklin]

How did it "feel"?

The thing about tube amps Vs. solid state for me has always been about feel. There's this cool, organic thing that happens between a player and cranked tube amp that I've never felt when playing a SS amp.

Am I nuts, or is this perceived phenomenon real?

No, it's real.

Playing a cranked tube amp is special, there is a feel that can't fully be explained -by me anyway. It really became especially apparent when I was recording overdubs one time. The engineer was dead set against playing in the same room with the amp, he wanted total isolation. Glad I stuck to my guns, because we both learned something. But when you are in the same room with the amp, the p'ups react in a way that almost feels like the strings are being pulled towards the p'ups. Feedback is very natural sounding and you can have sustain for days, and some of the notes have a great harmonic overtones that just can't be replicated. I like playing tube amps where if you let go of the strings, you go into feedback.

I owned a Line 6 AX212 and loved what it was capable of. I found several nice clean channels on it and used a FD2 and a boost with it. I could have gigged with it. You know what, it would have been eons more consistant than any tube amp, that's for sure!! I don't know how many gallons of sweat I've gone through wondering why my tube amp "sounds like shit tonight".

I've come to the realization that 99.95% of all people at these shows do not care about your tone. They care about the music.

I just recently saw a great little super group (CHECK THEM OUT! http://www.billkreutzmann.net/), the Bill Kreutzmann Trio (Grateful Dead drummer) w/ Otiel Burbridge (Allmans) and Scott Murouski (Max Creek). Scott was playing a $10k guitar (Langaoduc) through a Boss pedal board into a Line 6 POD, then into a power PA head!!!

No Two Rock, Trainwreck or Fuchs amp - Boss pedals, a POD and a PA head! Well, that was proof enough to me that no one else cares about natural tube overdrive and compression!! :p

[Miles]

How did it "feel"?

The thing about tube amps Vs. solid state for me has always been about feel. There's this cool, organic thing that happens between a player and cranked tube amp that I've never felt when playing a SS amp.

Am I nuts, or is this perceived phenomenon real?

You're not nuts, there is a slight difference in some amps, and I think it depends greatly on the kind of player and the kind of music. For rootsy blues/rock 'n roll where it's all you and the amp, yeah, a good tube amp is probably ideal.

For me, the Flextone III feels great. The tone is there, and while there are a select few tube amps that capture that extra 5% of the feel, the flextone has all the feel of most tube amps. The flextone feels just as good if not better than the boogies and riveras I have owned only to be trumped by the clean sound of my Genz Benz Black Pearl by a tiny bit.

But yes, the flextone III felt wonderful at the gig and the response is there. It's dynamic, full, articulate, controllable, reliable, consistent, and cheap.

When I dial in certain tones well, they have just as much of that elasticity and punch as a tube amp can have in a loud mix.

But, bear in mind, it's the music. I'm not noodling at a quiet club in an intimate setting, we're cranking out at stages and clubs around town where sound is a crapshoot. With all of the amps I've used live, the Flextone soundly beats the five tube amps I've used in this arena

[buddaman71]

I have recorded live gigs for years and some of the best overall tones I have captured have been with several different Line 6 amps and the more recent ones with my GSP1101 / Tech21 rig.

Other than the 1% of guit-geeks in the crowd on a given night, no one cares whether it has tubes, chips or NOS capacitors covered in rainbow wishes and ground unicorn horn powder.

They just seem to care if you make them want to enjoy the music.

Rock on.

:hiP

[Franklin]

The singer in my band plays a Flextone III at rehearsal. It's got a great clean tone for sure!

[Franklin]

Other than the 1% of guit-geeks in the crowd on a given night, no one cares whether it has tubes, chips or NOS capacitors covered in rainbow wishes and ground unicorn horn powder.

They just seem to care if you make them want to enjoy the music.


I'm glad we are all catching on to the reality of this! :agree

[Franklin]

The discussion is not about whether the 1% of guit-geeks in the crowd can hear the difference. or whether they enjoy the music or not.

It's about whether a Line 6 Flextone is a killer amp or not.

Which "several" Line 6 amps are you referring to?

Here is what the OP said:



This amp is killer, and I would have slagged it and burned it mercilessly for years before.

What a learning experience. I have swallowed my own foot on this one big time.

Your thoughts?

He asked what our thoughts were. buddaman71 shared his thoughts.

[heretic]

I used to play a Flex III a lot - Loved the simplicity and the tones were there, but in terms of feel, I'd say it was about 80% there, and it ran out of headroom pretty quick.
I also play a Vetta II combo, and that amp gets closer in terms of feel, mostly because of the better power amp and power supply. The Flex III power amp is not much different than a car stereo's.

[stratzrus]

If you went to a Robin Trower gig, paid good money for the ticket, and he came on and played a Flextone, you'd be satisfied?It depends on how he sounded.

Some may be convinced that he could not possibly sound good playing a Flextone...so be it.

I'd wait and let my ears be the judge.

[Deville2Rocket]

It depends on how he sounded.

Some may be convinced that he could not possibly sound good playing a Flextone...so be it.

I'd wait and let my ears be the judge.

With most off the tone being in your hands, I'll bet he'd sound amazing through a mid-80's Peavey Bandit.

[larry1096]

If you went to a Robin Trower gig, paid good money for the ticket, and he came on and played a Flextone, you'd be satisfied?

What I infer from your question is that, if he did, you wouldn't be satisfied. And that your dissatisfaction would be unrelated to how he sounded.

Hmmmm....


Larry

[gproud5150]

Other than the 1% of guit-geeks in the crowd on a given night, no one cares whether it has tubes, chips or NOS capacitors covered in rainbow wishes and ground unicorn horn powder.

They just seem to care if you make them want to enjoy the music.

Rock on.

:hiP

If you went to a Robin Trower gig, paid good money for the ticket, and he came on and played a Flextone, you'd be satisfied?

See, I think you're missing the point. Let's try 'If people went to an Eagles concert, and all the guys were playing Line 6 amps, the 1% guit-geeks would notice, and may even be disgusted; the other 99% who wouldn't know the difference between a Line 6 amp and a Dumble wouldn't give rat's a**, as long as the music was there.

It's too bad you rate satisfaction at seeing a great guitar player solely on the gear they use, rather than what amazing sounds they can get from that gear.

[BadAssBill]

I've always been skeptical...but glad to hear you found your sound...

[waxnsteel]

Blasphemy. Stone him. :D

lol We need a stoning smiley for the heretic threads. For now, it's:mob

[J.T. Guitar]

Went to a Rippingtons concert a few years ago and Russ F. sounded really good. I went up to see the gear... (I'm a 1%er). He was using a Line-6 2x12 mic'ed up with a SM-57. I was surprised at the good tone out of that amp...

And, even after I knew what he was playing, I didn't leave the concert! But I was tempted. :roll

[crabby]

love the review, I am a proud owner of a couple high dollar amps,diezel herbert,splawn nitro, mesa triple rec,and just bought a new Line 6 hd 100 spidervalve,and I am a lil torqued like you were big bucks on the other amps and Heard one of these hd100 and was shocked,the other guitarist was using some nice heads and then bought a hd and it was my herbert vs him and his line 6,wow,so i bought one myself.They are so remarkable,for any style of music,we are hard rock.Line 6 and bogner are brilliant.

[Gtrman100]

I realize at least 90% of the people here will care less, but...

I have always been a tube amp only person. I play in an all original alternative/art rock band. We're a bit of an amalgamut of sorts in that we range widely from melodic rock and roll, to experimental/industrial tribal music, to pop. I am the main writing source in this band and I write about 90% of the material. I am a minimalist of sorts as well because I never put anything down on disc that I cannot reproduce during live performance.

So, after gigging my voodoo modded dual rec, Rivera Chubster, Genz Benz Black Pearl, and Mesa Lonestar Classic with this band, I still didn't have all the sounds I wanted.

So, on a whim, I bought a line 6 Flextone III 2x12 combo with the FBV shortboard about 6 weeks ago.

I took two weeks getting to know the amp and originally intended to use it as backup only.

However, I took it to a rehearsal and it blew me and my bandmates away.

So, I started a thread here and got slagged saying " I would never cut through the mix "... to be honest, this stereotype scared me a bit, but I took a leap of faith, carefully programmed the Flextone at rehearsal and brought it to our next gig. Well, we played a decent gig at the Bluebird theater last thursday to about 350 people and my sound was superior than it ever had been before. Not only did I cut through, but I received huge compliments on how articulate and huge my sound was. My cleans...huge, light ODs...huge, Higher gains....huge... Everything dead quiet when not playing and all of these sounds plus some tasteful effects available at the touch of a button on a hell of a budget. I had a couple audience musicians asking which amp I had played through. When I said the Line 6, they just shook their heads and said "I guess the rules have flown out the window".

I wasn't even going to the board direct, just mic'd up on axis with a good old SM57. I turned up full enough on stage with a slight monitor mix. The soundguy said I made his job very easy and that this equipment, used well, is a great asset. I just used a good clean Plexi model, a lightly overdriven bogner XTC, and a well driven bogner XTC model for this gig. All patches totally dry with the effects programmed, but turned off ready to be turned on when needed. So, I used patches 1A, 1B, 1C, that's it, and I heard so much good feedback about my tone. I was almost disappointed. I KNOW how to dial amps in, I KNOW how to cut through, and now these people are telling me that my history of $1,500 tube amps was all for nought??? You have got to be kidding me.

Well, I love tube amps, and I realize there are superior digital guitar amps out there, but this one has beat out a lot of higher end tube amps for a pretty large theater.

THEN, two days later, we go into the studio at Monument sound here on Colorado. These guys know what they are doing, and they kind of griped a bit when I started plugging the flextone III in. However, I ran into the board direct and we recorded 6 very difficult songs live and got all of the instrumental scratch tracks and the master drum tracks done for these songs in four hours. The scratch tracks sound phenomenal. Monument sound uses everything from little smokies, to JCM800s, Prosonics, Bogners, and a '67 Bassman to record. BUT, Chris asks me to bring my flextone back on Wednesday for me to lay out the rest of my "official" tracks for the recording.

It's a good tool that does a good job for me, and I'm a total convert to the digital world from here on out.

The next jump for me would be a more advanced system like AXE-FX with the foot controller, into a poweramp, into an oversized stereo 2x12. But I am a private school teacher father of two at the age of 25, so, that won't be happening for a little while.

This amp is killer, and I would have slagged it and burned it mercilessly for years before.

What a learning experience. I have swallowed my own foot on this one big time.

Your thoughts?

I'm with you, Miles. I love tubes amps; have Matchless, vintage Fender, current Fender, Marshall, Groove Tubes and other amps. They all have their strong and weak points.

I've gigged with Line 6 stuff since the first Flextone amps appeared. The early stuff suffered from very flat sounding models, and a weak power amp section that made it hard to cut through. I had a Vetta I, and it had the same problem, so I sold it.

But, I've always been intrigued by the possibilities of being able to have a load of different sounds easily available for the wide range of material my band covers. So, I picked up a Boss GT-6, then a GT-8 but was never totally happy with the lower gain distortions, and then checked out a Pod XTL. Most of the sounds were much closer to the real thing, and it's great to tap one switch for all the effects, and amp model changes!

My band mates were amazed at how good the tones were through my Marshall and Groove Tubes amps. The tube power amp section just made everything much more dynamic, and I get sounds that I could never get with my analog pedals.

Now I've got a Variax 700 and Pod X3L and can go from a Les Paul through a Marshall for solos, a Strat through a Deluxe for the rhythm part, or an Martin acoustic through the PA, all in the same song. I use a Blues Jr for small gigs, Hotrod Deluxe or Groove Tubes for medium gigs, and Lonestar Classic when I really want to move some air.

Are the tones perfect? Probably not, but so close and so convenient that it's doubtful that a cork sniffer could hear the difference over our really loud drummer and bass player. There have been some reliability problems that others have had with the X3L, but I've had none and I think the problems have been mainly solved. I'd use my amps and pedals for recording most of the time. I still love my pedals, and use them for gigs where I don't need a great variety of tones, the the L6 stuff has been great for my cover band.

Bottom line for me- Line 6 stuff great for wide variety of excellent tones, running through a tube power amp(or Spider Valve) makes it much more tube-like, if you only need a few different sounds, stay with your pedals.

[gag halfrunt]

With most off the tone being in your hands, I'll bet he'd sound amazing through a mid-80's Peavey Bandit.
This misconception would be funny, if it wasn't so pervasive. It's absolutely ridiculous.

If it was at all true, we would not be wasting so much money on pedals, guitars with tone woods, new pickups, different speakers, new tubes, etc, etc.

SOME of your tone is in your hands, as is your style. But MOST of your tone comes from the MANY other links in your signal chain between your hands and your mic.

[Gtrman100]

I know for 100% certain that the Flextone or any Line 6 product cannot produce the tones that come out of Robin Trower (as ONE example) speakers...would Trower or whoevers skills still be apparent with the Flextone, yes they most certainly would, but the tone would not be there.

I mean with respect, can John Mayer's tone be produced by a Flextone, or Gary Moore, or David Gilmour.

Come now, you guys are losing it.

You know for certain? Really, I guess you'd have to go to every concert of your favorite player and go back stage to make sure! And I guess Steve Howe of Yes, Neil Gerardo(Pat Benetar), David Mustaine, Lincoln Brewster, Garbage, Trent Reznor, No Doubt, Pete Anderson, and many other Line 6 players sound like sh** because you said so.

I could really care less that you don't like Line 6 stuff, what I don't respect is the ignorant and arrogant way you express it on every thread that has something to do with Line 6. It's boring, pal.

None of the advocates of the digital stuff think it's the end all or be all, it's just a tool that doesn't get enough respect because of preconceived notions about it. We have success using it, and we'd like to share it with the others(with an open mind) in the guitar playing community.

I think I hear your mommy calling...

[J.T. Guitar]

I have to say, Lincoln Brewster's live album is wrought with killer guitar tones. While it doesn't totally sound like a tube amp, I was surprised to learn he gets those tones out of a Line 6 into the FOH.

[pacomc79]

Ultimately I think this mostly goes to show... IF you know what you're doing with your instrument and you know the sound you want and you Understand the control of the amp you are using it's quite possible to get great sound from a digital amp or digital rig what have you. If you need flexiblity and a ton of different sounds... Line 6 is probably a good way to go. I vibed with the Duotone nicely. I just think the lot of us, especially on a board of mostly purists... just like seeing or at least knowing something is glowing in the back. I don't think you can go in and think oh yeah this is going to nail the tone of a $50,000 pro rig either.... What it can do is get you a ton of good useable sounds in an easy to transport package. The bulk of good tone is in your hands and EQ anyway. Everything else comes from that. One of the best things about the flextone when it came out was the DI. DI is by far the best way to do modelling I think.

I definately think the hybrid tube power tube modelling preamp is going to be huge in the future. Not for all of us of course but it will have it's niche.

This is almost like talking about the virtues of the DH on a national league message board :D

[Deville2Rocket]

This misconception would be funny, if it wasn't so pervasive. It's absolutely ridiculous.

If it was at all true, we would not be wasting so much money on pedals, guitars with tone woods, new pickups, different speakers, new tubes, etc, etc.

SOME of your tone is in your hands, as is your style. But MOST of your tone comes from the MANY other links in your signal chain between your hands and your mic.

Well, all I know is my rig sounds fantastic with a competent player, with or without pedals, but put my guitar in the hands of a rank amateur, and you will hear it sound like complete garbage.

Your opinion is your own, but to dismiss mine as ridiculous is a little rude.

Isn't it interesting that people buy these insanely expensive rigs trying the chase the tones of their rock idols, when those idols found it with average or slightly above average gear? I think the amp is a big part of your guitar's voice, but the hands of the player are a critical element to good tone that should not be dismissed as ridiculous.

It's all about pick attack, technique, style, pressure, touch, etc...

As Clapton said: It's in the way that you use it.

[Miles]

I used to play a Flex III a lot - Loved the simplicity and the tones were there, but in terms of feel, I'd say it was about 80% there, and it ran out of headroom pretty quick.
I also play a Vetta II combo, and that amp gets closer in terms of feel, mostly because of the better power amp and power supply. The Flex III power amp is not much different than a car stereo's.


Hmmm... this generates some interesting ideas.

Yeah, the Vetta II is great. The complexity isn't for me with this gig though. Often, we get mic'd up without alternatives. In this case, I don't want to have to worry about blend levels between each speaker of both amps. But yeah, a great amp.

Another thought, Many radios used to run off power tubes, as did old computers both analog and digital, as well as televisions. Isn't one device used to create sound technology just as arbitrary as another?

Tubes don't equate mojo for me...period. The way a certain amp is made does and how it reacts to the way you play the guitar. When I say my Black pearl has that extra 5%, it's because it specializes in certain frequencies that are hard to find in any amp I've tried... tube, SS, or digital. However, you get that tone at loud gig volumes and the 5% is more like a -10% since the clarity of the Flextone at loud clubs is far more punchy and clear than my Black Pearl unfortunately.

[Miles]

Sorry Miles, I'm not convinced.

When you say things like, "the flextone has all the feel of most tube amps", then I get worried....it has no tubes, so how can it feel like a tube amp?

I think you're on honeymoon.

Just my opinion, I could be 100% wrong.

I don't think you ever will be convinced and that's fine. It's not a honeymoon, I already went through that. I reserved posting this until I got through a few gigs and studio time as well as extensive testing in different environments with different mics and a ton of tweaking with all amps to see if the Flextone had an area where it really lacked. But it didn't. It was just as articulate, punchy, warm, and detailed as any tube amp out there to my ears at least. I tend to dial in tones that are brighter, but warm, moderate gain to completely clean. I like the voicings of vox amps and I tend to chase that and I have found it with the Flex III, but I am able to adjust the voicing even further and inject some fender low end and volume into it to make it a monster of a clean. From there, I dialed in some warm "bogner" dirt at various gain levels and found something dead on to a T-verb in blues mode with less fizz and with the warmth of an old JMP. It gives me a sound that is huge and thick, but doesn't have the stiffness of a boogie or marshall. Rather, producing that sound but with the elasticity and response of my Black pearl well overdriven. I couldn't believe my ears or my fingers. I think it's a really nice sound, and the Toad Tavern, Herman's Hideaway, and the Bluebird seemed to concur.

I didn't want the Flextone to be that good. I wanted it to be an inferior usable gigging amp to leave at the rehearsal space or to record "silent" demos with direct. But with a lot of work I found that "feel" thatt encompassed qualities of the sound and response that I like in tubes.

It is apparent that you and I come from vastly different backgrounds when it comes to influences and tastes, so I will agree to disagree. I love tube amps, they're wonderful. However, I found very responsive snappy cleans on the cusp of breakup that are so insanely clear along with massive dirt that stays so articulate at band volumes. I come from the artsy fartsy industrial rock meets british pop/alternative/grunge/ etc... In other words, I'm probably never going to be the guy playing a relic into a $5,000 1x12 15w combo at private parties.

I use any means to accomplish the sound. I have owned and used channel switchers running straight in, single channel non MV straight in, all kinds of mod, dirt, and synth pedals into all kinds of amps from 80's solid state amps to your finest Carrs and Vox amps. I have used digital amps both for recording and live performance, and I will do whatever the hell I can possibly do to find a sound that is stimulating for what I am trying to write and perform live.

All means of guitar amplification cut through and are effective when used well. The rules are out the window as far as I am concerned.

"Purist" approaches? They are a laugh. We are manipulating man-made electronic devices to produce a given sound. Electric guitars were hardly seen as a purist approach when they were first developed. There is no purist approach. And why should there be? Who wants to hear the same music over and over? Music is about pushing boundaries and creating new norms and new ways of creating emotion through sound.

Therefore, why paint yourself into a corner?

I don't get it. I use what works, what accomplishes the sound, and what I enjoy using.

I may have, over the past couple years, stated some majorative opinions for certain sound-creation methods that I don't agree with now. I wish I hadn't because I have no reason to state them and never did. I was merely uneducated in using a lot of great tools that are constantly being developed.

As far as Robin Trower, I think if we're nit-picking the amps he uses, then we fall into that 1% of guit-geeks...which is fine. However, I go to a show to see the music translated live in an enticing and creative way. I like to see what tools people use, but I do not judge the quality of the show by the tools they use.

I don't care that one of my favorite guitarists uses an old Proco Rat into a 1x12 $200 solid state amp for his dirt tones (Jonny Greenwood). He's an amazing and innovative player and an exceptional musician. If I walked out of his show for that, I would have to take a hard look at myself.

[ReddRanger]

Miles, I think you've done your homework on this and your argument is solid. I love tube amps, but I also know bands that gig succesfully with Line 6 amps. I haven't been able to make it work for me live, but I use my POD all the time at home.

You've found a tool that works for you, and you broke through some of your own preconceived notions in the process. I think that's cool and I found your experience very interesting.

[stan p]

See, I think you're missing the point. Let's try 'If people went to an Eagles concert, and all the guys were playing Line 6 amps, the 1% guit-geeks would notice, and may even be disgusted; the other 99% who wouldn't know the difference between a Line 6 amp and a Dumble wouldn't give rat's a**, as long as the music was there.

It's too bad you rate satisfaction at seeing a great guitar player solely on the gear they use, rather than what amazing sounds they can get from that gear.

The opinion of the majority is not always the truth indicator, especially when it comes to art. Playing is an art form but so is building instruments. There people who love and appreciate either.

[Miles]

One of the best things about the flextone when it came out was the DI. DI is by far the best way to do modelling I think.


I used to think so too, but you'd be surprised. I catered my tones to sound great either mic'd or going in direct. The past three gigs, 2 were mic'd up, one soundguy had me go direct. Both times they sounded nearly identical and I heard every note as did the audience. I think DI is awesome and you don't have to worry about your egotistical bass player running around like Flea knocking over your amp's mic stand, but if you have to be mic'd it works just as well from my experience.

For recording, I only go direct since I have two little ones sleeping upstairs, and I accomplish a lot of cool tones with my PODxt.


If you think of a digital amp as trying to capture a certain '59 bassman off some recording, you're going to be disappointed, just as you would with a real '59 bassman. The sound would not be the same. However, if you approach a digital amp as a sound creation tool that has the fullness and articulation of what you'd like to find in your tone, then you'll probalby like it a lot.

I have found that I approach the Flextone like a rig that has a wonderful sweet sounding clean channel and I try to find the right emulations that act like really craftable overdrives and fuzzes. If I use that mindset, I can find 10 patches in an hour that I really like and get a good start on.

For example, I want a moderately fuzzy raunchy tone that has a ton of gutteral mids, but I want to switch back to my clean sound or my more natural overdrive that is rather pristine and very clear. Using pedals with a tube amp doesn't accomplish this very well, because you often have to sacrifice your clean sound to make your pedals sound as full as you want them. Shimmery cleans often lead to anemic and raspy pedals. With the Flextone III, I don't have to do that.

I look for the sound, if it's there, then I'm happy. I don't care what creates it so long as it's easy to use, fun to use, reliable, and consistent.


Also, GuitarTone, the regurgitated statement of "tone is subjective" is SO true. What my ears like, yours may very well despise. Our lead player thinks he gets the holy grail tone and I think it sounds dispicable. If you came out to my show, or anyone else for that matter, they might see this post and expect wonderful tone, and be really disappointed. However, I really like the way it sounds and it is very useful.

[Miles]

Miles, I think you've done your homework on this and your argument is solid. I love tube amps, but I also know bands that gig succesfully with Line 6 amps. I haven't been able to make it work for me live, but I use my POD all the time at home.

You've found a tool that works for you, and you broke through some of your own preconceived notions in the process. I think that's cool and I found your experience very interesting.

Thanks for the kind words.

[J.T. Guitar]

In the end it's an individual's preference and the ability to get the sounds you want from your rig.

FWIW- I have never played a digital modeler that feels as good to me as a tube amp... but that's not to say there is not a modeler out there that could.

[Deville2Rocket]

Miles, I think you've done your homework on this and your argument is solid. I love tube amps, but I also know bands that gig succesfully with Line 6 amps. I haven't been able to make it work for me live, but I use my POD all the time at home.

You've found a tool that works for you, and you broke through some of your own preconceived notions in the process. I think that's cool and I found your experience very interesting.

Post of the century. :BEER

[SgtThump]

Guitar players sure are a stubborn bunch that are "ignorantly" resistant to change. Meh...

[FlyingDutchman]

I was very impressed with a L6 Spider 112 that I was borrowing for a few days. Nice little amp that seemed very versatile. I looked into the Spider Valve/Bogner stuff and almost grabbed a used one off of ebay but it was just overkill for what im doing.

Congrats with finding "your" amp. Now sell off some of that expensive stuff and buy a new axe!

[Miles]

I was very impressed with a L6 Spider 112 that I was borrowing for a few days. Nice little amp that seemed very versatile. I looked into the Spider Valve/Bogner stuff and almost grabbed a used one off of ebay but it was just overkill for what im doing.

Congrats with finding "your" amp. Now sell off some of that expensive stuff and buy a new axe!


The reason that digital/tube hybrid doesn't grab me is because one of the main perks of using digital is not having to worry about microphonic preamp tubes or sour power tubes. Plus, I'm not as fond of the spider's layout and I like more amp model and voicing options. But, I can see why a lot of players dig them and they do sound great, to my ears at least.

I fired up my tube amps last night and cranked all three ( my black pearl, my 66 bandmaster, and my Flextone III). I mic'd all three up with a SM57 totally dry, EQ set flat on mixer, slightly off axis. I put all three to the same volume and tried 'em.

The flextone was just as interchangeably solid as the other two in front of the mic. I was easily able to dial in medium gain tones that competed if not beat out my Bandmaster with my OCD, and I was able to get some great dark and soupy overdrive tones using a Bogner emulation with 'no cab' model that favored well with my Black Pearl. In fact, the Flextone was slightly more articulate despite a lot of time spent with the Black pearl. The black pearl had more of that old school overdrive while the Flextone was fuller throughout the frequency spectrum. But overall, they sounded incrediby similar both from a 'real time' feel, meaning the way it feels when you hit the strings, and in front of the mic. I was not using DI at all.

While MY taste in tone will never quench the thirst of boutique and posh players, it sure is solid and full for the stuff that I write and perform.

I'm definitely surprised, and I totally see why it's hard to get away from tubes. They're such a security blanket.

It's like going from a great grand piano to a great keyboard with perfectly weighted keys that actually sounds more pristine and clear than your grand piano. BUT, you somehow have a hard time getting away from that old trusty instrument.

[tommytomcat]

I'm a tube amp guy! I've built 5e3, 2 5e7, 2 AB763 DR's, 2 5g15 reverb units, 5f6-a and Allen Old Flame kits. My Line 6 Flextone I (the first year they came out with them) sounded and performed better than any Fender Deville.. Hot Rod series.. blues jr (my most hated amp to get stuck playing through at a blues jam).. pro jr.. DRRI.. that I've ever played/heard. Knowing what makes a great tube amp tick, I doubt the modelers will ever or can ever measure up to a classic tube amp that uses quality components and is dialed in correctly. However, those same classic tube amps will never offer the wide ranging tonal options as the modelers do. Each has it's place.

[steadygarcia]

I don't think you ever will be convinced and that's fine. It's not a honeymoon, I already went through that. I reserved posting this until I got through a few gigs and studio time as well as extensive testing in different environments with different mics and a ton of tweaking with all amps to see if the Flextone had an area where it really lacked. But it didn't. It was just as articulate, punchy, warm, and detailed as any tube amp out there to my ears at least. I tend to dial in tones that are brighter, but warm, moderate gain to completely clean. I like the voicings of vox amps and I tend to chase that and I have found it with the Flex III, but I am able to adjust the voicing even further and inject some fender low end and volume into it to make it a monster of a clean. From there, I dialed in some warm "bogner" dirt at various gain levels and found something dead on to a T-verb in blues mode with less fizz and with the warmth of an old JMP. It gives me a sound that is huge and thick, but doesn't have the stiffness of a boogie or marshall. Rather, producing that sound but with the elasticity and response of my Black pearl well overdriven. I couldn't believe my ears or my fingers. I think it's a really nice sound, and the Toad Tavern, Herman's Hideaway, and the Bluebird seemed to concur.

I didn't want the Flextone to be that good. I wanted it to be an inferior usable gigging amp to leave at the rehearsal space or to record "silent" demos with direct. But with a lot of work I found that "feel" thatt encompassed qualities of the sound and response that I like in tubes.

It is apparent that you and I come from vastly different backgrounds when it comes to influences and tastes, so I will agree to disagree. I love tube amps, they're wonderful. However, I found very responsive snappy cleans on the cusp of breakup that are so insanely clear along with massive dirt that stays so articulate at band volumes. I come from the artsy fartsy industrial rock meets british pop/alternative/grunge/ etc... In other words, I'm probably never going to be the guy playing a relic into a $5,000 1x12 15w combo at private parties.

I use any means to accomplish the sound. I have owned and used channel switchers running straight in, single channel non MV straight in, all kinds of mod, dirt, and synth pedals into all kinds of amps from 80's solid state amps to your finest Carrs and Vox amps. I have used digital amps both for recording and live performance, and I will do whatever the hell I can possibly do to find a sound that is stimulating for what I am trying to write and perform live.

All means of guitar amplification cut through and are effective when used well. The rules are out the window as far as I am concerned.

"Purist" approaches? They are a laugh. We are manipulating man-made electronic devices to produce a given sound. Electric guitars were hardly seen as a purist approach when they were first developed. There is no purist approach. And why should there be? Who wants to hear the same music over and over? Music is about pushing boundaries and creating new norms and new ways of creating emotion through sound.

Therefore, why paint yourself into a corner?

I don't get it. I use what works, what accomplishes the sound, and what I enjoy using.

I may have, over the past couple years, stated some majorative opinions for certain sound-creation methods that I don't agree with now. I wish I hadn't because I have no reason to state them and never did. I was merely uneducated in using a lot of great tools that are constantly being developed.

As far as Robin Trower, I think if we're nit-picking the amps he uses, then we fall into that 1% of guit-geeks...which is fine. However, I go to a show to see the music translated live in an enticing and creative way. I like to see what tools people use, but I do not judge the quality of the show by the tools they use.

I don't care that one of my favorite guitarists uses an old Proco Rat into a 1x12 $200 solid state amp for his dirt tones (Jonny Greenwood). He's an amazing and innovative player and an exceptional musician. If I walked out of his show for that, I would have to take a hard look at myself.

Great post, bro! It's always refreshing to read about someone who finds the sound and the rig he's been searching for. Nice! I'm squarely in the camp of, who gives a flying f#*k what you play. As long as you sound good and the music is good, that's what it's all about.

[Jarrett]

I'm another of those weirdos who traded in their high dollar boutique amps for a Line6 amp. It was a 2x12 Spider Valve combo with a FBV Shortboard in my case. I did that last year around November I think so thats been what...coming up on 7 months now.

For me it wasn't a better tone thing. I thought my previous rig (Egnater Mod50) sounded better than this amp, but there were other factors involved for me like availability, weight, number of pieces, setup/teardown, etc. not to mention it was nice to reduce my investment by about $2500. Also, now I don't mind throwing my amp in the back of my truck and up on stage and stuff. I don't care if it gets dinged, etc. If it breaks (which is hasn't) I just run up to my local (or any) GC and slap another one on the card while this one goes off for warranty repair. All of that combined with the tone and flexibility of the amp made it a no brainer for me.

It's completely changed the way I approach my music now. I never think about my amp anymore. It works every time I plug in and it sounds good. I don't wonder if I need the latest and greatest gear, I don't surf the site worrying about how to afford the new hot gear, I just play music. And to get to that point, it's worth MUCH more than what I paid for it.

[buddaman71]

You summed up many of my feelings. I gig 3-4 nights a week and need reliable, consistent tone. I also sing on 95% of our 30-40 songs per gig, so I need to be able to hit one-switch lead licks easily in between vocal phrases. I also need maximum tonal versatility, as we play a pretty wide range of styles on a given night.

It's not just about the pure tonal aspects; the pros and cons of any type of rig for the particular gig also factor in. I just weigh all the options and pick the rig that makes the most sense.

I think most of the folks that think it's blasphemy to leave with house without a Megatone 9000 Custom 12-watt gold-plated one channel/one knob executive amp probably just don't play out that much or actually use the gear in the real world.

(That's FINE, btw, I'm NOT making fun of anyone, just making an observation...)

Either way, making music is supposed to be fun. In a world that seems to be ever falling towards economic/political/social distress, we should all be thankful that we are even blessed to be able to give any of our energy to silly (in the grand scheme of things) discussions like this.

Be well and rock on,

:dude

[drgonzoguitar]

I'm another of those weirdos who traded in their high dollar boutique amps for a Line6 amp. It was a 2x12 Spider Valve combo with a FBV Shortboard in my case. I did that last year around November I think so thats been what...coming up on 7 months now.

For me it wasn't a better tone thing. I thought my previous rig (Egnater Mod50) sounded better than this amp, but there were other factors involved for me like availability, weight, number of pieces, setup/teardown, etc. not to mention it was nice to reduce my investment by about $2500. Also, now I don't mind throwing my amp in the back of my truck and up on stage and stuff. I don't care if it gets dinged, etc. If it breaks (which is hasn't) I just run up to my local (or any) GC and slap another one on the card while this one goes off for warranty repair. All of that combined with the tone and flexibility of the amp made it a no brainer for me.

It's completely changed the way I approach my music now. I never think about my amp anymore. It works every time I plug in and it sounds good. I don't wonder if I need the latest and greatest gear, I don't surf the site worrying about how to afford the new hot gear, I just play music. And to get to that point, it's worth MUCH more than what I paid for it.

You summed up many of my feelings. I gig 3-4 nights a week and need reliable, consistent tone. I also sing on 95% of our 30-40 songs per gig, so I need to be able to hit one-switch lead licks easily in between vocal phrases. I also need maximum tonal versatility, as we play a pretty wide range of styles on a given night.

It's not just about the pure tonal aspects; the pros and cons of any type of rig for the particular gig also factor in. I just weigh all the options and pick the rig that makes the most sense.

I think most of the folks that think it's blasphemy to leave with house without a Megatone 9000 Custom 12-watt gold-plated one channel/one knob executive amp probably just don't play out that much or actually use the gear in the real world.

(That's FINE, btw, I'm NOT making fun of anyone, just making an observation...)

Either way, making music is supposed to be fun. In a world that seems to be ever falling towards economic/political/social distress, we should all be thankful that we are even blessed to be able to give any of our energy to silly (in the grand scheme of things) discussions like this.

Be well and rock on,

:dude

:agree

If you are curious in a live situation what it sounds like, click on my myspace "Saintrio" band page to hear the Spider Valve in action (Undun-I Feel Free-Dancin Days).

It is not perfect, but close enough....plus I dont spend hours upon end runnning cables to effect loops and such...

[Rod]

Sitting between my Budda SD-18, Alessandro English,and Suhr Badger is a Line 6 Felextone III XL...a fantastic amp, if you give it the time needed to program your own sounds ...

[gag halfrunt]

Well, all I know is my rig sounds fantastic with a competent player, with or without pedals, but put my guitar in the hands of a rank amateur, and you will hear it sound like complete garbage.

Your opinion is your own, but to dismiss mine as ridiculous is a little rude.

Isn't it interesting that people buy these insanely expensive rigs trying the chase the tones of their rock idols, when those idols found it with average or slightly above average gear? I think the amp is a big part of your guitar's voice, but the hands of the player are a critical element to good tone that should not be dismissed as ridiculous.

It's all about pick attack, technique, style, pressure, touch, etc...

As Clapton said: It's in the way that you use it.
It's not opinion. If it was, I wouldn't dismiss your statement. You're furthering an internet myth, and I'm pointing out the fallacy.

You are missing two important points here:

1) The comparison isn't between your playing and a 'rank amatuer' messing around like a chimp. If two different players played rock and roll barre chords on your rig, the tone would be strikingly similar. Tone. That's all we're talking about. Not style. Style is in the player, and is a part of your sound. But it's not part of your tone.

Think about it. By stating that 'most of the tone is in the hands', you are implying that very little of your tone comes from your guitar's pickups, body wood, fretboard, effects, amp, or speakers. That implication is patently ridiculous. I'm not being rude here, just stating the obvious.

2) Nobody I know that spends $ on anything above entry level gear is chasing anybody else's tone, rock gods included. They are chasing the tone in their head.

Dimebag was a great player, but his tone was crap because of the amps he used. It wasn't his hands that gave him bad tone, it was those lousy SS amps.

[bluescube]

Congrats. As a soundguy I had a guy use a Flex II live direct and it had good tones that worked with the PA.

I do miss my old Flex I. the Flex II didn't work as well for me.

[dc_jcm800]

Neil Giraldo has a ripping live sound with the Flextones.
I tried one and it was unreliable, must have been a lemon.
I really liked the Spider/Bogner I posted about. I got to use it again this past weekend for a sit in gig. I got one good clean sound and one good break up sound, the rest I used pedals. Took the pedals well.
Not bad, light and compact.

[stratzrus]

2) Nobody I know that spends $ on anything above entry level gear is chasing anybody else's tone, rock gods included. They are chasing the tone in their head.This may be true if it's limited to people you know, but TGP threads are full of "What amp shuld I buy to get X player's tone?" Robben Ford, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and John Mayer immediately come to mind.

[J.T. Guitar]

:agree

Especially when it comes to Robben... Yikes! No thanks, I like a more open sound than that... But it works for him.

[mitch236]

Also I think it depends on what venue you play at. When I was young and playing in front of hundreds of people it wouldn't matter tubes vs modeller. But now that I'm older and playing for dozens at small bars with most of the audience being blues players, it does make a difference, that 5% of tone.

[pacomc79]

This thread makes me want to get a POD XT for recording again. Then maybe I can play at night without the neighbors complaining.

Thanks for the Info Miles.

[steadygarcia]

All of the guitar on the record I did with my band (you can link to it on the myspace page in my signature) is done with a Pod XT. This was dictated by the logistics encountered in making this record, but I have to say I was happy with the final outcome. Gonna be starting on a new record soon and this time I'll be able to use my collection of vintage amps. It'll certainly be interesting to compare the final results.

[drgonzoguitar]

Also I think it depends on what venue you play at. When I was young and playing in front of hundreds of people it wouldn't matter tubes vs modeller. But now that I'm older and playing for dozens at small bars with most of the audience being blues players, it does make a difference, that 5% of tone.

I agree with you on that one. No one is going to claim the Line 6 Spider Valve is an awesome blues amp. Although, it can get you there...

Here is a short clip recording with a Tascam DR-1 in the center of the room.

Strat>>Line 6 Spider Valve

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=814183&songID=6647340

[Miles]

Had a recording session to get the formal rhythm guitar tracks recorded last night. We work with a guy who has a GREAT ear and some great equipment in Monument, Colorado. When we were laying down scratch tracks, I brought in the Flextone III and he politely scoffed at it and let me know that I would be tracking with an old blackface bassman, a JCM800 through a bogner cab, a fender prosonic, among a couple of other tube amps. I said it was fine and agreed to use the tube amps when I came in.

Our lead player hadn't quite finished his tracks on a particular song, so we rigged him up through 3 amps and 7 mics, while I would play through the Flextone as a reference point until it was my turn to be rigged up through the tube amps.

BUT, he ran me stereo direct and put a couple mics in front of my cab, one a condenser and the other, your par for the course SM57.

When we fired up, he asked me what the hell I was doing. He hadn't ran my guitar through distressors or compression or EQ or anything, and he loved the sound. I agreed, it sounded huge and full. So, I laid down my official tracks all the way through, no more than 2 takes for anything and they sounded spectacular in the mix. Chordal work sounded enormous and full and I didn't have to double track over it, individual notes were fat, and effects sounded top-notch for our stuff.

So, another victory for this dumb little $570 box of blinking lights. My Black pearl wouldn't have sounded as good, just as our lead player had to fight mic placement to get a good sound. At first, it didn't even compare to the Line 6. Once we got him mixed right and dialed in, it sounded great and just as on par fidelity and punch as my rig. The difference was, our engineer put two mics in front of my cab and plugged in direct as well and I was up and running in five minutes. Our lead player started dialing in at 5:30 and we weren't laying his tracks down until 5 pedals later at 6:45.

When you're paying hourly...just sayin'

It worked!

[andyc]

This thread makes me want to get a POD XT for recording again. Then maybe I can play at night without the neighbors complaining.

Thanks for the Info Miles.

I had a Pod XT Live, that I used for a while and sold because the only sounds I ended up using were Marshall tones - so I bought a Marshall DSL 100. I really like the Marshall (probably kills my credibility right there with some in this crowd), but I've bought a few more amps, including a Mesa Lonestar Classic and I built a D'lite OSD. During all of this I ended up buying a Pod XT again just because it's incredibly versatile, sounds great and I can't afford all those amps and effects otherwise.

My problem with the Pod is that I want to play guitar, I don't want to program. So, I'm not patient enough to program my own tones very well. I have heard some stuff that other people do though that *I* couldn't tell from a tube amp..

So the Pod is just another tool in the toolbox. But, unlike some of the other specialized tools I have - this one is a Swiss Army knife.

[gag halfrunt]

This may be true if it's limited to people you know, but TGP threads are full of "What amp shuld I buy to get X player's tone?" Robben Ford, Stevie Ray Vaughan, and John Mayer immediately come to mind.
You are exactly correct. And I feel sorry for them.

There's nothing wrong with wanting some aspects of a famous tone in your arsenal. But I think most people who take the journey toward someone else's tone eventually find the tone in their head, and change paths toward that. I think that is a much more healthy/creative path, anyway.

But in the end, I always say get the gear that will give you the sound you want. If the tone makes you happy, that's what's important in gear selection.

[Miles]

I had a Pod XT Live, that I used for a while and sold because the only sounds I ended up using were Marshall tones - so I bought a Marshall DSL 100. I really like the Marshall (probably kills my credibility right there with some in this crowd), but I've bought a few more amps, including a Mesa Lonestar Classic and I built a D'lite OSD. During all of this I ended up buying a Pod XT again just because it's incredibly versatile, sounds great and I can't afford all those amps and effects otherwise.

My problem with the Pod is that I want to play guitar, I don't want to program. So, I'm not patient enough to program my own tones very well. I have heard some stuff that other people do though that *I* couldn't tell from a tube amp..

So the Pod is just another tool in the toolbox. But, unlike some of the other specialized tools I have - this one is a Swiss Army knife.


I think it also depends on your needs musically. If you're happy using just your guitar into the amp, you'd probably find little use in a modeler, and the idea of programming would be really redundant and unappealing. However, if you find that your music needs some spacious reverb, chorus, some delay, and you find that your one amp doesn't cover all the tones you're looking for, a modeler can be a great asset.

[buddaman71]

Had a recording session to get the formal rhythm guitar tracks recorded last night. We work with a guy who has a GREAT ear and some great equipment in Monument, Colorado. When we were laying down scratch tracks, I brought in the Flextone III and he politely scoffed at it and let me know that I would be tracking with an old blackface bassman, a JCM800 through a bogner cab, a fender prosonic, among a couple of other tube amps. I said it was fine and agreed to use the tube amps when I came in.

Our lead player hadn't quite finished his tracks on a particular song, so we rigged him up through 3 amps and 7 mics, while I would play through the Flextone as a reference point until it was my turn to be rigged up through the tube amps.

BUT, he ran me stereo direct and put a couple mics in front of my cab, one a condenser and the other, your par for the course SM57.

When we fired up, he asked me what the hell I was doing. He hadn't ran my guitar through distressors or compression or EQ or anything, and he loved the sound. I agreed, it sounded huge and full. So, I laid down my official tracks all the way through, no more than 2 takes for anything and they sounded spectacular in the mix. Chordal work sounded enormous and full and I didn't have to double track over it, individual notes were fat, and effects sounded top-notch for our stuff.

So, another victory for this dumb little $570 box of blinking lights. My Black pearl wouldn't have sounded as good, just as our lead player had to fight mic placement to get a good sound. At first, it didn't even compare to the Line 6. Once we got him mixed right and dialed in, it sounded great and just as on par fidelity and punch as my rig. The difference was, our engineer put two mics in front of my cab and plugged in direct as well and I was up and running in five minutes. Our lead player started dialing in at 5:30 and we weren't laying his tracks down until 5 pedals later at 6:45.

When you're paying hourly...just sayin'

It worked!

I ran a small project studio for years, and I cannot COUNT how many times, after tracking the rhythm guide tracks direct through a Pod Pro when tracking drums, we ended up keeping them because they sounded as good or better than what we could get when mic'ing up the Mesa/Bogner/Marshall/etc. "real" amps for the"keeper" tracks.

I loved it when guitarists would bring in their entire rack rigs and stacks and end up not recording a single note through them because the Pods worked so well.

Just my experience, but I bet if you polled engineers/producers you would hear a very high percentage of similar comments.

[Traps]

What is your bands name? I want to see/hear this for myself.

Are you in Denver? Colorado Springs?

[zekmoe]

For me the key comment was "I took two weeks getting to know the amp ". That's probably the one thing model amp haters don't do. Figure out how it works and what makes it sound. They're certainly not as plug and play as single channel tube amps. But I heard Steve Howe play one, and he sounded great. It's the player.

[Bikedude]

I used a Line6 FlextoneII/Plus for 5 years. I head it set up pretty well as other guitarists would tell me they could never get their modeling amps to sound as good as my particular combo. I've since re-visited tube amps, LSC, DRRI, Goodsell 17, and I've never had more fun and been more satisfied with my tone as I am now with the "bottle" amps. BTW my Cube60 sounds better than my Flextone ever could.

[J.T. Guitar]

I've never had more fun and been more satisfied with my tone as I am now with the "bottle" amps.

You said a mouthful there my brother!

[crzyfngers]

i can't get over "line 6" and "gig" in the same sentence. steve howe would sound good plugged into a nail hanging out of an orange. all the ones i've heard the average joe playing live sound like crap. tiny, tinny, processed crap.

[J.T. Guitar]

I'm waiting for the 2 or 3 month report by the OP... to see if it's still doing it for him. If they have the means, everytime I hear of someone switching, they always come back to the glowing glass. We'll see.

[Miles]

I ran a small project studio for years, and I cannot COUNT how many times, after tracking the rhythm guide tracks direct through a Pod Pro when tracking drums, we ended up keeping them because they sounded as good or better than what we could get when mic'ing up the Mesa/Bogner/Marshall/etc. "real" amps for the"keeper" tracks.

I loved it when guitarists would bring in their entire rack rigs and stacks and end up not recording a single note through them because the Pods worked so well.

Just my experience, but I bet if you polled engineers/producers you would hear a very high percentage of similar comments.


Yeah, this was our identical experience with the Flextone. The engineer said he couldn't have got a fuller sound for my parts with the other amps if he had to. I had it dialed in very juicy and it took five minutes to get it ready to hit record.

[Miles]

What is your bands name? I want to see/hear this for myself.

Are you in Denver? Colorado Springs?


66 Rising. We are playing at the Gothic Theater on June 28th.

Like I said, any one person could hate my sound, but I think it works perfectly for what we're doing, and I have had some compliments from other bands from our past 2 shows.

[Miles]

I'm waiting for the 2 or 3 month report by the OP... to see if it's still doing it for him. If they have the means, everytime I hear of someone switching, they always come back to the glowing glass. We'll see.

Well, I still have "glowing glass" sitting at home and it's great for what it does.

When I want to approach minimalistic electric guitar for other kinds of music that I write where I often involve keys and polyrhythmic beats, and I have to sing (which makes it impossible to tap dance on footswitches)then, I love THAT one sound using volume knob control and I'm fine with that.

But, I need a ton of flexibility in an easy to set up rig that sounds full and can get super clean to very dirty.

My single channel amp plus pedals was pretty good, but a great clean left my pedals sounding puny, and I have grown tired of channel switching amps.

The overdiven tone that I have found doesn't sound like a Bogner. It sounds like a big overdrive pedal that I've crafted to sound the way I like an overdriven/distorted tone to sound in this band. And yeah, it feels good to play.

My influences are hardly typical of this forum. I do not listen to clips here of Bruno and Two Rock amps in amazement...sorry. I get amazed by bizarre unorthodox tones that can be accomplished. I find the tones of players who "did it wrong" more enticing. I like the tones I hear from artists like David Bowie, Zappa, Jack White, Jonny Greenwood, Josh Homme, etc... I also love the musicality and expression from Clapton and Page. But, I am put to sleep by 80% of the clips by "tone gurus" here at TGP or famous players that have what is considered to be coveted tone. It's just not for me.

So, to say "I'll be back to glowing bottles" is saying that you're not really understanding what drove me to use a modeler in the first place.

I've said it 50 times and I'll say it 100 if I have to. I will use whatever means to accomplish the sound I am after. A lot of tube amps cater to players with very safe and dry tonal palettes. I would rather pull hot pickups out of a garage sale guitar and put 'em into my telecaster and buy a ZVEX fuzz factory through a Sovtek Mig 50 or a Fender SS amp and it would be FAR more appealing and interesting to my ears than buying some /13 and crying over "ghost notes" and speaker changes all day long. Sorry, I've got better things to do.

[J.T. Guitar]

Has it been 3 months yet? :rolleyes: :roll


I don't know if Jack White would sound the same through a pod as he does through a cranked old tube amp with worn out speakers... MMMmmmm good!

[Miles]

Has it been 3 months yet? :rolleyes: :roll


I don't know if Jack White would sound the same through a pod as he does through a cranked old tube amp with worn out speakers... MMMmmmm good!

You got it, I'll update in 60 days.

And as I've found it, distorted electric guitar kicking the speakers ass doesn't really leave it to matter whether it's tubes or digital. Just that it's full and nasty.

[steadygarcia]

[quote=Miles;4322293]My influences are hardly typical of this forum. I do not listen to clips here of Bruno and Two Rock amps in amazement...sorry. I get amazed by bizarre unorthodox tones that can be accomplished. I find the tones of players who "did it wrong" more enticing. I like the tones I hear from artists like David Bowie, Zappa, Jack White, Jonny Greenwood, Josh Homme, etc... I also love the musicality and expression from Clapton and Page. But, I am put to sleep by 80% of the clips by "tone gurus" here at TGP or famous players that have what is considered to be coveted tone. It's just not for me.
[quote]
A big +1 on that, bro! :AOK

[J.T. Guitar]

My influences are hardly typical of this forum.

:nono

By the way, I was unaware there is a "typical" influence tone wise on TGP. In my experience, TGP members hold a vast array of varying degrees of what they think are good tone.

Just because there is a vocal few here who think the nostril circumference and underwear size of a certain R.F. is of utmost importance, doesn't mean everyone here feels that way.

Also, I think an open mind should rule the day. Lumping Two-Rock, Fuch's, Bruno, and others into a box of a singular type tone is foolhardy and displays ignorance of the amps. These amps are, in several cases, more capable of varying tones than many so called multi-channel wonders.

Not only that, if something goes wrong with a Two-Rock, you just call Bill or Joe and it gets taken care of. Have you tried to get a Line 6 designer on the phone lately?

I guess what I'm saying is, there are advantages in hand-wired boutique type amps you mentioned.







Not only that... they sound better too! :roll

[Lution]

:nono

By the way, I was unaware there is a "typical" influence tone wise on TGP. In my experience, TGP members hold a vast array of varying degrees of what they think are good tone.

Just because there is a vocal few here who think the nostril circumference and underwear size of a certain R.F. is of utmost importance, doesn't mean everyone here feels that way.

Also, I think an open mind should rule the day. Lumping Two-Rock, Fuch's, Bruno, and others into a box of a singular type tone is foolhardy and displays ignorance of the amps. These amps are, in several cases, more capable of varying tones than many so called multi-channel wonders.

Not only that, if something goes wrong with a Two-Rock, you just call Bill or Joe and it gets taken care of. Have you tried to get a Line 6 designer on the phone lately?

I guess what I'm saying is, there are advantages in hand-wired boutique type amps you mentioned.







Not only that... they sound better too! :roll

Perhaps you could take some of your own advice and keep an open mind. The OP obviously has good experiences with tube amps and owns and has owned a few of them. Also, I believe he lumped those amps in a catagory of talked-about and inspiring toned amps, not as amps that sound the same.

Bottom line is this: If he's found a different tool that works for him, satisfies, and inspires him, who are you or anyone else to judge and especially make fun of him, which you seem to be indirectly doing with nearly all of your posts and little laughing smileys.

Miles, thanks for the PM reply. If there is any way you can post up some sound clips, especially of your Bogner sounds when they come available, please do. I'd love to hear them.

[J.T. Guitar]

Perhaps you could take some of your own advice and keep an open mind. The OP obviously has good experiences with tube amps and owns and has owned a few of them. Also, I believe he lumped those amps in a catagory of talked-about and inspiring toned amps, not as amps that sound the same.

Thanks for the advice sir, I have a very open mind. I'm just wondering if he'll feel the same in 3 months, that's all. Is TGP a place where people get so sensitive, I can't question a school of thought? The OP said, "my influences are hardly typical of this forum." I'm sorry, I didn't know TGP was typical... after your response to my post, maybe it is. Last time I checked, this was a discussion board.

Bottom line is this: If he's found a different tool that works for him, satisfies, and inspires him, who are you or anyone else to judge and especially make fun of him, which you seem to be indirectly doing with nearly all of your posts and little laughing smileys.

Good for him! I was making fun of no-one that I know of, some people need to lighten up around here. As far as my comment about sounding better, I was kidding with the OP. I think that's still allowed... I can remove the smileys if you like.:o

[Lution]

Thanks for the advice sir, I have a very open mind. I'm just wondering if he'll feel the same in 3 months, that's all. Is TGP a place where people get so sensitive, I can't question a school of thought? The OP said, "my influences are hardly typical of this forum." I'm sorry, I didn't know TGP was typical... after your response to my post, maybe it is. Last time I checked, this was a discussion board.



Good for him! I was making fun of no-one that I know of, some people need to lighten up around here. As far as my comment about sounding better, I was kidding with the OP. I think that's still allowed... I can remove the smileys if you like.:o


no problem, mate. just checking to see if that's what you were doing. if you weren't, it's all good. If you were, hey, it's up to the OP as to how to handle it, which he seems to be handling it with patience and understanding.

[TS808]

Thanks for the advice sir, I have a very open mind. I'm just wondering if he'll feel the same in 3 months, that's all.


How many of us have spent hundreds, if not thousands of dollars over the years on an amp, whether tube or digital, production or hand-wired, only to change our minds 90 days later? :D

Seems like alot of us go through that.

[A440]

Miles, I was just curious what amp models you use the most?

I haven't read the complete thread here, but I understand you run the base tone pretty clean and use pedals to add various shades of dirt ?

It sounds like the 150 watt power section in the flex III's is enough to cut thru on a live gig for you.

honestly, that's one factor that was always a concern for me. no problem for low vol gigs, but can be a bigger issue when playing in a larger band....

[J.T. Guitar]

no problem, mate. just checking to see if that's what you were doing. if you weren't, it's all good. If you were, hey, it's up to the OP as to how to handle it, which he seems to be handling it with patience and understanding.

:BEER
No problem here either. I'm local to Miles and was going to go out and see his set-up in person sometime soon. If anyone is ever offended by my ribbing, I hope they would be good enough to tell me.

The guitar is supposed to be fun, and kidding about our differences is part of what makes the world go around. And, like I said, maybe the best tone I've heard by R. Freeman, was out of a 2x12 Line 6 amp. :AOK

[Miles]

:nono

By the way, I was unaware there is a "typical" influence tone wise on TGP. In my experience, TGP members hold a vast array of varying degrees of what they think are good tone.

Just because there is a vocal few here who think the nostril circumference and underwear size of a certain R.F. is of utmost importance, doesn't mean everyone here feels that way.

Also, I think an open mind should rule the day. Lumping Two-Rock, Fuch's, Bruno, and others into a box of a singular type tone is foolhardy and displays ignorance of the amps. These amps are, in several cases, more capable of varying tones than many so called multi-channel wonders.

Not only that, if something goes wrong with a Two-Rock, you just call Bill or Joe and it gets taken care of. Have you tried to get a Line 6 designer on the phone lately?

I guess what I'm saying is, there are advantages in hand-wired boutique type amps you mentioned.







Not only that... they sound better too! :roll

I never stated once that I think these amps sound alike and I know for a fact, at least for two of them, that they don't (never played a bruno). However, many of the users I've heard who play these kinds of amps have virtually interchangeable playing styles, or this is at least depicted in the clips they post. I said many, not all. However, by a large amount of posters here, they tend to be the bench-mark for what equates tone, and influences here do not often stray far from specific players when these amps are being discussed.

So, I guess what I'm saying is it becomes less about the instrument and more about the toy. One person may love their Ferrari, but I like driving my Jeep Wrangler more. When I approach music, I will find the sound necessary to get the message across. Sometimes, it's a cranked tube amp. Other times, it's a "tape eater" sound with an octave fuzz that sounds so unbearable and chaotic, but underneath, is a great melody for the song.

I would feel handcuffed if my standards for quality instrumentation in such an arbitrary musical department dictated that my instrument sounded good only by certain standards. It's just painting yourself into a corner from my perspective. And again, I'm not by any standards a musical prodigy, nor is my opinion of any more value than another person's. It's just my experience and my take on what I am trying to get done. I'm not a technical genius on the guitar, I'm a bit of a hack, but I've tried so many methods as well as the prescribed methods here by the cork sniffers and I've found that just because a lot of people say something is better, doesn't mean it is for you. That's all

[Miles]

I'm just wondering if he'll feel the same in 3 months,

Hey, I hear ya. Maybe I won't. Stranger things have happened.

I had a mesa lonestar classic that I did 3 gigs and a recording session with. Realized I hated the stiff feel and the lack of definition in any mix. Also, it felt like it suffocated the guitar unbearably. Without a band around, it was so inspiring and with the band, felt like a dead elephant.

I can say with authority that I love the line 6 far more than that lonestar and I would in any context. It has that same resilient response that my favorite tube amp has, but with the versatility of any clean you can conjur up along with a lot of great "dirt pedals" and texturizing effects when I need them. I basically approach it as a sound molding machine, and it's really great for that. Hopefully, it will be reliable.

BUT, who knows what a few months and more experience could bring.

[Catoogie]

It sounds like the 150 watt power section in the flex III's is enough to cut thru on a live gig for you.

Wattage has ZERO to do with cutting through a band mix at a live gig.

[Jarrett]

I agree with you on that one. No one is going to claim the Line 6 Spider Valve is an awesome blues amp. Although, it can get you there...

Here is a short clip recording with a Tascam DR-1 in the center of the room.

Strat>>Line 6 Spider Valve

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=814183&songID=6647340

Nice tone fo sho, what settings did you use? Any external stuff?

[dk123123dk]

Wattage has ZERO to do with cutting through a band mix at a live gig.

I think it has a bit more to do with it than ZERO!!!

Thats a BIT of a stretch. Perhaps you could expand on your theory a bit rather than just making a bold statement?

It would be as silly as saying a 5 watt Black Heart will cut through better than a 100 watt Marshall JTM-45 100. Maybe you could say a properly EQ'ed amp of a lower wattage will cut though better than a 100 watt amp that isn't properly EQ'ed?

to the OP: I used to gig with a Vox Valvetronix amp, and it was great to have all those tones available at the touch of a button. Less to worry about as far as tube upkeep goes, and a very consistent tone every night. I wish more players would open their minds and think outside the box a bit when it comes to gear. If more people gave modeling amps a chance, they will only get better!

dk

[Miles]

I think it has a bit more to do with it than ZERO!!!

Thats a BIT of a stretch. Perhaps you could expand on your theory a bit rather than just making a bold statement?

It would be as silly as saying a 5 watt Black Heart will cut through better than a 100 watt Marshall JTM-45 100. Maybe you could say a properly EQ'ed amp of a lower wattage will cut though better than a 100 watt amp that isn't properly EQ'ed?

to the OP: I used to gig with a Vox Valvetronix amp, and it was great to have all those tones available at the touch of a button. Less to worry about as far as tube upkeep goes, and a very consistent tone every night. I wish more players would open their minds and think outside the box a bit when it comes to gear. If more people gave modeling amps a chance, they will only get better!

dk

I agree with you here.

I would be screwed on stage with a 5 watter. Just not enough to get anything resembling a clean. Volume wise, through the right cabinet and a monitor mix, I'd cut through, but I would constantly be in complete saturation.

My Black Pearl at 15 watts gets a nice breakup to screaming gain on big stages, but nothing resembling clean for those volumes. If I were playing quieter ambient music, yeah, I'd be able to go clean.

I'm not concerned with the number of watts, and yes the flextone is 150. But, I've found that solid state/digital has to have more wattage since the actual distortion of the power section isn't as nice sounding at all as tube amps are. But, the emulation of the breakup of the tube power section is great in a lot of areas of the digital world. However, you need a high wattage power section to amplify THAT emulated sound of the tube section getting it's ass kicked.

That's why digi-amps are high-wattage. It doesn't mean they are worse for bedroom/practice uses, but yeah, they can get outrageously loud for sure. I use my flextone with the master at 11:00 max. Anymore than that, and I'm over the drums and aggravating the sound engineer. And rightly so. Once you're over the acoustic drum kit, especially that kick drum, you are too loud and you need to re-evaluate which frequencies you are emphasizing in the mix if you aren't cutting through at that point.

[A440]

thanks Miles

in the past, I've played a number of gigs with SS type of gear and agree that you do need ample power to cut thru, etc. especially if you aren't mic'ed thru PA. dyamics of other players on the stage nonwithstanding :)

[drgonzoguitar]

Nice tone fo sho, what settings did you use? Any external stuff?

The only thing external is a modded BOSS CS-3 that I wasnt using on this clip and a Rocktron Talkbox (not used here :) )

It is sort of a Fender Twin-ish setting with some dirt in it. I cant remember what the actual setting is....it has been a few months since I have programmed it.

[Lution]

The only thing external is a modded BOSS CS-3 that I wasnt using on this clip and a Rocktron Talkbox (not used here :) )

It is sort of a Fender Twin-ish setting with some dirt in it. I cant remember what the actual setting is....it has been a few months since I have programmed it.


How are you liking that Tascam DR-1?

I've been looking for reviews on this little recorder. Very interested in picking one up.

[Catoogie]

If I knew the technical reasons why I would have given them. All I know is that with my almost thirty years playing the guitar, I know that it isn't volume that makes an amp cut through a band mix. All volume does is make it louder, not help it cut. It's like a Chef's knife, you can have a a 12" blade on it but if the metal isn't sharp and of substantial quality you can saw and saw and you are not gonna make your way through whatever it is you're trying to cut. Then again, you can have a small little, razor sharp paring knife, it won't be ideal for slicing bread but if you work it right you'll be able to get it to work.

I think it has a bit more to do with it than ZERO!!!

Thats a BIT of a stretch. Perhaps you could expand on your theory a bit rather than just making a bold statement?

It would be as silly as saying a 5 watt Black Heart will cut through better than a 100 watt Marshall JTM-45 100. Maybe you could say a properly EQ'ed amp of a lower wattage will cut though better than a 100 watt amp that isn't properly EQ'ed?

to the OP: I used to gig with a Vox Valvetronix amp, and it was great to have all those tones available at the touch of a button. Less to worry about as far as tube upkeep goes, and a very consistent tone every night. I wish more players would open their minds and think outside the box a bit when it comes to gear. If more people gave modeling amps a chance, they will only get better!

dk

[drgonzoguitar]

How are you liking that Tascam DR-1?

I've been looking for reviews on this little recorder. Very interested in picking one up.

I love it. It works great for FOH mixes, off the board with line in connects, and as a great songwriter tool. You can record in wav or mp3 format at any sample rate you want. I couldn't recommend it enough!

[A440]

If I knew the technical reasons why I would have given them. All I know is that with my almost thirty years playing the guitar, I know that it isn't volume that makes an amp cut through a band mix. All volume does is make it louder, not help it cut. It's like a Chef's knife, you can have a a 12" blade on it but if the metal isn't sharp and of substantial quality you can saw and saw and you are not gonna make your way through whatever it is you're trying to cut. Then again, you can have a small little, razor sharp paring knife, it won't be ideal for slicing bread but if you work it right you'll be able to get it to work.

yes, you need the right tool for the job

I think power and eq are parts of that equation. for modelers, or if you use pedals - a clean power amp works wonders. tube amps overdrive sweetly, but SS amps not so much.

I love my pro jr, but wouldn't expect to cut it with a loud drummer without mic'ing thru a PA.

btw, Miles - I do have tube amps, but started out with a similar rig to yours. I'm a big fan of the old proco rats, it sounds great into almost any clean amp (tube, SS, or modeler)

[ZenFly06]

Wow another modeler thread on tgp? The OP has it right. Amps/efx etc are tools. Learn the tool and it can work magic. I've used a H&K zenTera combo for the last 6 years; concerts,clubs, studio everything. I was going to get the Vetta, and they had this available on close out. If it dies, I either will seek out another for a similar price, or I'll have to get the vetta. Also Vox has a new one coming out late 2008 that looks promising.

I play covers: classic rock, blues for the most part. So far the zen has held its own in every situation.

Good for the OP! fight the power!

[MartinC]

I say tomayto, you say tomaato ...

[Rod]

Wow another modeler thread on tgp? The OP has it right. Amps/efx etc are tools. Learn the tool and it can work magic. I've used a H&K zenTera combo for the last 6 years; concerts,clubs, studio everything. I was going to get the Vetta, and they had this available on close out. If it dies, I either will seek out another for a similar price, or I'll have to get the vetta. Also Vox has a new one coming out late 2008 that looks promising.

I play covers: classic rock, blues for the most part. So far the zen has held its own in every situation.

Good for the OP! fight the power!

What is OP??

[gdomeier]

I believe it means "original post" or in this case, "original poster".

[J.T. Guitar]

It means Original Poseurs ... http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=16202&title=breakdance (http://www.comedycentral.com/videos/index.jhtml?videoId=16202&title=breakdance)

[glenecho]

Wattage has ZERO to do with cutting through a band mix at a live gig.

It doesn't? Cool...I'm just going to start wiring my preamp directly to my cabinets then.

[J.T. Guitar]

It doesn't? Cool...I'm just going to start wiring my preamp directly to my cabinets then.

:roll :munch

[Miles]

If I knew the technical reasons why I would have given them. All I know is that with my almost thirty years playing the guitar, I know that it isn't volume that makes an amp cut through a band mix. All volume does is make it louder, not help it cut. It's like a Chef's knife, you can have a a 12" blade on it but if the metal isn't sharp and of substantial quality you can saw and saw and you are not gonna make your way through whatever it is you're trying to cut. Then again, you can have a small little, razor sharp paring knife, it won't be ideal for slicing bread but if you work it right you'll be able to get it to work.

I really like your analogy. It hits the nail right on the head. Qualitative in terms of volume means little. You need to hit the right kinds of frequencies and create the right kind of quality of sound (tone) to emphasize the part you are trying to play. The day that I realized I needed a lot more of these for different songs (qualities or tones), was the day I realized that I needed something really versatile without the headache of a huge dozen-pedal board.

I'll always love the idea of a single channel amp for performance, and I own one and love it. But when I'm playing out, it doesn't cut the mustard nearly as well as the modeler.

I always get really aggravated with lead players who own half stacks and try to get their tone to hit every frequency and they actually think that they can cut through. They want the massive low end and nice cut on top. I used to play with a lead player who used this setup and his parts never cut through.

One day, I brought a peavey classic 1x12 combo in for him to use. He was annoyed and I told him to just give it a try. I dialed it to the point of medium gain where the speaker was getting it's ass kicked and he seared through the mix. His amp was actually the better amp, but it's application was not.

Tools for the job. For bigger rhythm tones with a brighter upper midrange, but maintaining that 'big' feel for rhythm parts, my modeling amp is twice as good as any other high-end tube amp I've owned. Tube amps are really limited in terms of what they can excel at for a given musical project or playing style. One amp may be great for a certain recording, but it sucks live, OR, an amp may be great for getting that lower midrange growl, but try to get some cut for arpeggiated parts, and it just sounds awkward. I can find the best of all worlds with what I'm using.

I have a show at the gothic theatre tonight. I'll do another tone report this week to see how it went. Some of you here at TGP have even thought about coming. We open tonight at 7:30. I am the rhythm player (stage left) with the shaved head. Hey, it's easy, cheap and my daughter can't pull my hair anymore.

[Lution]

I really like your analogy. It hits the nail right on the head. Qualitative in terms of volume means little. You need to hit the right kinds of frequencies and create the right kind of quality of sound (tone) to emphasize the part you are trying to play. The day that I realized I needed a lot more of these for different songs (qualities or tones), was the day I realized that I needed something really versatile without the headache of a huge dozen-pedal board.

I'll always love the idea of a single channel amp for performance, and I own one and love it. But when I'm playing out, it doesn't cut the mustard nearly as well as the modeler.

I always get really aggravated with lead players who own half stacks and try to get their tone to hit every frequency and they actually think that they can cut through. They want the massive low end and nice cut on top. I used to play with a lead player who used this setup and his parts never cut through.

One day, I brought a peavey classic 1x12 combo in for him to use. He was annoyed and I told him to just give it a try. I dialed it to the point of medium gain where the speaker was getting it's ass kicked and he seared through the mix. His amp was actually the better amp, but it's application was not.

Tools for the job. For bigger rhythm tones with a brighter upper midrange, but maintaining that 'big' feel for rhythm parts, my modeling amp is twice as good as any other high-end tube amp I've owned. Tube amps are really limited in terms of what they can excel at for a given musical project or playing style. One amp may be great for a certain recording, but it sucks live, OR, an amp may be great for getting that lower midrange growl, but try to get some cut for arpeggiated parts, and it just sounds awkward. I can find the best of all worlds with what I'm using.

I have a show at the gothic theatre tonight. I'll do another tone report this week to see how it went. Some of you here at TGP have even thought about coming. We open tonight at 7:30. I am the rhythm player (stage left) with the shaved head. Hey, it's easy, cheap and my daughter can't pull my hair anymore.

Good luck on your gig, holmes! :RoCkIn

[gtrplr71]

I agree with you on that one. No one is going to claim the Line 6 Spider Valve is an awesome blues amp. Although, it can get you there...

Here is a short clip recording with a Tascam DR-1 in the center of the room.

Strat>>Line 6 Spider Valve

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=814183&songID=6647340
love the tone man !

[tripp2k]

If you went to a Robin Trower gig, paid good money for the ticket, and he came on and played a Flextone, you'd be satisfied?

GT, ever heard of a guy named Steve Howe? I couldn't believe my friggin' eyes when I caught him playing a PODxt Live and a Line 6 amp with Asia recently. I said to myself "WTF self?" and then went and sold my DRRI, most of my analog pedals and bought an X3L. It gets me out of this rat chase of tone I have been on, gets me back to playing more and chasing less and I've got cash in the bank. Time is at a preimuim for me these days so when I do get to play, this does it for me. It takes me from where I was to where I want to go with a great deal of versatility.

And, yes, Steve sounded wonderful and I was very satisfied. :)

[Miles]

lol, yeah I know Steve Howe, he's the guy my brother Trevor Rabin replaced....:) ;)

I don't understand this "versatility" thing...if you're a good enough guitarist then all you need is a few good tones coming from a good amp and a some pedals.
I've watched some of the best bands in the world live, and all the guitarists needed was one amp with a few pedals for the entire concert...they played with versatility, they didn't need tone versatility.

Check this vid out.
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=761668

This is PJH (TGP member) playing live with his les Paul, Marshall TSL602, Marshall Drivemaster and TS9 overdrives, and a Chorus and Delay pedal.
They do a U2 tribute, a Creedance Tribute, a Joe Cocker tribute, and in this vid they're playing their own stuff.
I've watched them do Santana, Floyd, Metallica, Bon Jovi, Zepp, whatever, Peter can play anything, and Peter does it all with his Les Paul, Marshall, two OD pedals, chorus and Delay.

Sometimes, versatility has to do with voicing.

A few pedals is a great idea, but sometimes poor in execution depending upon the kind of voicing you like. For example:

I like Vox AC30 cleans, they are the best voicing for cleans in the world to my ears. Dirty, I like a brighter, yet warm and really full overdriven tone, and I like to have a semi-dirty tone in between.

With most amps, I find a clean that I like, but it doesn't work with pedals...as well. It still sounds okay, but it's just not there. I've used everything from Super overdrives, Box of Rock, OCD, Keeley RAT, etc... and none of them got me quite where I wanted to be for this project.

So, versatility means that something does a lot of things really well. Some channel switchers are pretty good, but everyone I've tried really lacks something. Dual rectos have a rubbery clean, as do marshall DSLs, Riveras are alright, but the prices are ridiculous for what they are. I've owned so many tube amps and none of them were truly versatile. They worked really well in certain settings, for certain voicings. I could not use them as tone crafting tools in a reasonably simplistic rig that accomplished all I liked to do on stage.

Now, I often go to the other side of the spectrum with my single channel tube amp (genz benz black pearl 212)....great amp, btw. When I want minimalism, that voicing has the best compromise of any tube amp I've played. Everything else, I find myself compromising a lot. With a dual rec, I compromise feel, but I get a lot of sounds, with rivera, same thing. My chubster was great, but I would find a great dirty tone only to have sacrificed the clean tone do to shared EQ settings among channels. With clean amps + pedals, I would find fabulous cleans and I found the dirties always sounding too lo-fi and anemic.

However, for some strange-ass reason, I actually like the feel of the flextone. It responds really well across all gain level and voicing spectrums. You can get big heavy dirty sounds that feel very immediate and sound really clear and full, from there, you can find a nice jangly clean sound at the touch of a button. From there, if I feel like a little delay is appropriate, then I can add it without an extra $100 on a boss dd-3, if I want some light chorus, no sweat. Plus, volume pedal on the FBV controllers make your amp silent to the mic when you're not playing...very cool.

The gothic theater last night was great. We recorded our show, and when I listened back, my guitar sounded very dominant in the mix throughout the show. I'll post a clip when I get my copy of the cd. Some of you TGPers said you were coming, I guess I'll find out if anyone stopped by and listened.

Anyways, 'versatility' is also subjective and it means different things to different people. To me, it means that it excels at many things and you feel very satisfied with what you're getting. Versatility also means that it works just as well in any playing situation (large/small stage, monitors/no monitors, mic'd/un-mic'd, studio time, practice, etc...) This amp seems to work perfectly for it.

Now, if budget allowed, I'd love an old Fawn AC30 and a VHT preamp into poweramp into a 4x12, with a couple texturizing pedals. BUT, in the working musician's world, soundguys don't cater to this, and budget just doesn't allow it. Until it does, for my uses, this thing kicks the asses of a lot of high-end gear I've owned.

I don't think I'll be subscribing to the whole "real men play straight in cause their balls are this ---><---- big" mentality anytime soon. I have tons of gigs with other projects where all I do is sit in with an acoustic and I'm fine.

It's accomplishing sounds for music, not a pissing contest.

[Zim]

Man, my guitar player uses the Line6 HD147 Head and the 2 412 cabs, and the floorboard that has the 1 wah pedal.

He sounds amazing! Blows me away all the tones and effects he has. And he cuts through like a mo fro! We played a gig Sat. night and he only used one cab and he sounded great! We had "guest" on stage too. Had an extra drummer sit in, another guitar player, an extra keys player and a guy on harp. Oh and at one point, had like 10 people at the mics. And Dan sounded great with all that extra noise hitting.

And let me tell you, it is harder than hell to play right when you are sitting in between 2 drummers and one of them doesn't know your tunes. I'm the bassplayer, so I need the beat to be right, I had to listen for Dan in all the mess, thank goodness he cut through!!!

[drgonzoguitar]

Sometimes, versatility has to do with voicing.

A few pedals is a great idea, but sometimes poor in execution depending upon the kind of voicing you like. For example:

I like Vox AC30 cleans, they are the best voicing for cleans in the world to my ears. Dirty, I like a brighter, yet warm and really full overdriven tone, and I like to have a semi-dirty tone in between.

With most amps, I find a clean that I like, but it doesn't work with pedals...as well. It still sounds okay, but it's just not there. I've used everything from Super overdrives, Box of Rock, OCD, Keeley RAT, etc... and none of them got me quite where I wanted to be for this project.

So, versatility means that something does a lot of things really well. Some channel switchers are pretty good, but everyone I've tried really lacks something. Dual rectos have a rubbery clean, as do marshall DSLs, Riveras are alright, but the prices are ridiculous for what they are. I've owned so many tube amps and none of them were truly versatile. They worked really well in certain settings, for certain voicings. I could not use them as tone crafting tools in a reasonably simplistic rig that accomplished all I liked to do on stage.

Now, I often go to the other side of the spectrum with my single channel tube amp (genz benz black pearl 212)....great amp, btw. When I want minimalism, that voicing has the best compromise of any tube amp I've played. Everything else, I find myself compromising a lot. With a dual rec, I compromise feel, but I get a lot of sounds, with rivera, same thing. My chubster was great, but I would find a great dirty tone only to have sacrificed the clean tone do to shared EQ settings among channels. With clean amps + pedals, I would find fabulous cleans and I found the dirties always sounding too lo-fi and anemic.

However, for some strange-ass reason, I actually like the feel of the flextone. It responds really well across all gain level and voicing spectrums. You can get big heavy dirty sounds that feel very immediate and sound really clear and full, from there, you can find a nice jangly clean sound at the touch of a button. From there, if I feel like a little delay is appropriate, then I can add it without an extra $100 on a boss dd-3, if I want some light chorus, no sweat. Plus, volume pedal on the FBV controllers make your amp silent to the mic when you're not playing...very cool.

The gothic theater last night was great. We recorded our show, and when I listened back, my guitar sounded very dominant in the mix throughout the show. I'll post a clip when I get my copy of the cd. Some of you TGPers said you were coming, I guess I'll find out if anyone stopped by and listened.

Anyways, 'versatility' is also subjective and it means different things to different people. To me, it means that it excels at many things and you feel very satisfied with what you're getting. Versatility also means that it works just as well in any playing situation (large/small stage, monitors/no monitors, mic'd/un-mic'd, studio time, practice, etc...) This amp seems to work perfectly for it.

Now, if budget allowed, I'd love an old Fawn AC30 and a VHT preamp into poweramp into a 4x12, with a couple texturizing pedals. BUT, in the working musician's world, soundguys don't cater to this, and budget just doesn't allow it. Until it does, for my uses, this thing kicks the asses of a lot of high-end gear I've owned.

I don't think I'll be subscribing to the whole "real men play straight in cause their balls are this ---><---- big" mentality anytime soon. I have tons of gigs with other projects where all I do is sit in with an acoustic and I'm fine.

It's accomplishing sounds for music, not a pissing contest.

Can't wait to hear the clips! I have some more I will post tomorrow as well.

[GSHARP]

Well, this is a great thread. My opinions/experiences probably mean nothing here in The Gear Page community as I don't post often but what the heck, here I go:

I had a Line6 AX212 when they first came out. Soundmen were laughing all the time when I was showing up with my amp, cracking jokes about the "digital-computerized-toy" I was carrying. It was so simple: plug the amp, plug in the Floorboard and I was ready to gig. And the tone wasn't bad also, if you tweaked the amp a bit, if you learned to work with it. Man, I was gigging all the time, everywhere with anyone. And then I made some real money, started to buy more expensive amps (tube amps), you name it: Boogie, Marshall, Rivera... Combos, heads, rack setups... For the last 6 or 7 years, I bought and sold so many tube amps because I was struggling with them. To get to what I wanted, I needed like 3 amps - or a 4 channel amp. I'm a gig man and I play Metallica to Wallflowers and Pink Floyd, Beatles and ZZ Top in between. You get the idea. Now, I'm down to a Peavey Classic 50 combo, and despite the fact that it's superb sounding, it doesn't get the job done, even with pedals. I miss my AX212 and I'm not ashamed to say it. It wasn't the "Tone of God" but I could go from Metallica to Beatles in a click. What I'm saying is in all my 23 yrs of gigging, very few people in the audience care about "tone", they wanna be entertained and have fun, dance to the music and, in a way, be part of the band. I was never concerned about how my Line6 was going to sound night after night, it was consistent. Nothing will beat a good tube amp, nothing will beat that natural sound of a pushed tube but I still think I would be better served with my AX212, not because it's better than a tube amp, but because it's easy to get more than decent tones out of it for a lot less $$$. I am currently looking to get a Line6 amp, not sure if I'll go the "spider Valve" route or the "full solid state" route.

[drgonzoguitar]

Well, this is a great thread. My opinions/experiences probably mean nothing here in The Gear Page community as I don't post often but what the heck, here I go:

I had a Line6 AX212 when they first came out. Soundmen were laughing all the time when I was showing up with my amp, cracking jokes about the "digital-computerized-toy" I was carrying. It was so simple: plug the amp, plug in the Floorboard and I was ready to gig. And the tone wasn't bad also, if you tweaked the amp a bit, if you learned to work with it. Man, I was gigging all the time, everywhere with anyone. And then I made some real money, started to buy more expensive amps (tube amps), you name it: Boogie, Marshall, Rivera... Combos, heads, rack setups... For the last 6 or 7 years, I bought and sold so many tube amps because I was struggling with them. To get to what I wanted, I needed like 3 amps - or a 4 channel amp. I'm a gig man and I play Metallica to Wallflowers and Pink Floyd, Beatles and ZZ Top in between. You get the idea. Now, I'm down to a Peavey Classic 50 combo, and despite the fact that it's superb sounding, it doesn't get the job done, even with pedals. I miss my AX212 and I'm not ashamed to say it. It wasn't the "Tone of God" but I could go from Metallica to Beatles in a click. What I'm saying is in all my 23 yrs of gigging, very few people in the audience care about "tone", they wanna be entertained and have fun, dance to the music and, in a way, be part of the band. I was never concerned about how my Line6 was going to sound night after night, it was consistent. Nothing will beat a good tube amp, nothing will beat that natural sound of a pushed tube but I still think I would be better served with my AX212, not because it's better than a tube amp, but because it's easy to get more than decent tones out of it for a lot less $$$. I am currently looking to get a Line6 amp, not sure if I'll go the "spider Valve" route or the "full solid state" route.

Check out my live sound clips of the Spider Valve in the Gear Soundclip section (I just added today):

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=411492

[Bad Back]

I have a number of non-master volume tube amps that I gig with, and for the most part to find the sweet spot where the crunch is just right requires a fair amount of volume. In some of the larger clubs we play that's okay, but smaller clubs make it harder to dial in a good crunch.

I'm going to guess that the spider still requires a good bit of volume for the sweet spot. My question for the Flextone owners, can you dial in a nice crunch at lower volumes (I'm thinking of the small clubs where you really need to keep the volume down for the first couple of sets).

TIA

BB

[scruffydoo]

I have the spider valve head and floorboard which continues to floor me 4 months on, I'm delighted with the plug and playness of it and often walk straight past my other amps to plug into it. Its also an obvious choice for places you don't want to take your spendy gear to, tonewise its about 90% of what I'm looking for.

Thankfully its not quite 100% cos I actually enjoy the research, hunting down and wheeling & dealing on gear, when my playing gets a bit stale GAS always keeps me interested in guitar. Apart from a few howlers I think Line 6 stuff is generally great and definately has its place in music, long live GAS I say !! :AOK

[GSHARP]

Just got out of the store and gave the 2x12 combo (40w Spider Valve) a spin... I'm impressed, of course it's no Diezel or Bogner, but it's got more than decent tones. Plenty of power to keep up with a full band, this little monster sounded great, even at low volumes - I couldn't crank it in the store. Really versatile amp, with the FBV Shortboard this thing is a mean little weapon.

Presets are presets: some are great, some are useless. I would love to spend some time tweaking the lil' bastard to my likings. Too bad I couldn't crank it up. This is a serious contender and it just might end up in my house.

[Miles]

I'll bet that HD147 does sound rather huge on stage, that guy must have a van go lug 2 4x12s to a gig.

[Phil M]

I was jamming with a group of guys for a couple of months and the singer/rhythm guitarist had a Line6 head and 4x12. Not sure which one it was though ... He sounded terrible except for one clean/reverb/delay patch and my Splawn swallowed him up despite me trying not to.

One of the last times I played with them I asked if he had to spend a lot of time programming patches and he said no. He just used the factory ones and removed the delay if it was getting in the way. DOH! So I never really got to hear what one could do. I'd love to sit with a XT Live for 3 or 4 hours and see what I could come up with.

[ReddRanger]

I was jamming with a group of guys for a couple of months and the singer/rhythm guitarist had a Line6 head and 4x12. Not sure which one it was though ... He sounded terrible except for one clean/reverb/delay patch and my Splawn swallowed him up despite me trying not to.

One of the last times I played with them I asked if he had to spend a lot of time programming patches and he said no. He just used the factory ones and removed the delay if it was getting in the way. DOH! So I never really got to hear what one could do. I'd love to sit with a XT Live for 3 or 4 hours and see what I could come up with.
Yeah, those factory presets are always lame IMO. Sorry to the folks at Line 6, but I have never found any of those presets useable. Even with my POD at home, I always tweak from the ground up.

[Gtrman100]

I was jamming with a group of guys for a couple of months and the singer/rhythm guitarist had a Line6 head and 4x12. Not sure which one it was though ... He sounded terrible except for one clean/reverb/delay patch and my Splawn swallowed him up despite me trying not to.

One of the last times I played with them I asked if he had to spend a lot of time programming patches and he said no. He just used the factory ones and removed the delay if it was getting in the way. DOH! So I never really got to hear what one could do. I'd love to sit with a XT Live for 3 or 4 hours and see what I could come up with.
You're illustrating the problem with modelers- there are so many tweaking variables, to make them sound great with your amp takes a fair bit of experimenting.

Because I do the Variax/X3L setup, getting the Output mode and amp EQ tweaked correctly was critical to getting it sound right. Now, I love the sound and flexibility of my rig. BTW, I'm running the X3L into a pair of Blues Jr's, a Lonestar Classic, or HRDx depending on the size venue.

[GuitarRuss]

I found this while looking for clips of Lollar pickups. I was digging how fat the guy's tone was for a bridge pickup and later noticed that he was playing through the Line 6... The tube snob in me was pretty surprised. I'll still have to play one in person to really believe it though, but I was impressed enough that next time I go to the store I'll try it beside a real tube amp and see how it compares.

This guy has really nice tone in his hands and obviously knows how to dial the better tones out of that amp. The other Line 6 demos I've seen are so bad that I couldn't believe it. Crazy cool guitar too. Makes me want to throw a tele bridge on my strat!

Dirty: http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=CCZbKmA77Lo (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=CCZbKmA77Lo)
Clean Tones: http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=8GLO0f0aXLg (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=8GLO0f0aXLg)

[ronmail65]

I have another good example.... I purchased one of the original Line6 AxSys 2x12 amps (which I still think sound way better than the newer Flextones) about 10 years ago when they came out. After investing some time on how to use the amp, it was the most versatile, consistent, and reliable amp that I ever used. Plus it sounded great! I got lots of compliments on my sound - even from the sounds guys that work a local venue that headlines national acts.

The other guitar player in the band loved it so much, that he bought one too. But, he spent no time programming the amp and had a crappy ear for tone. So, the amp sounded like crap.

I guess if you have a 6 knob Marshall 2204 head, there's almost nothing you can do to make the amp sound bad. The minimal and passive controls can't help but keep you within a great tonal range. On the other hand, a modeling amp with active tweaking out the wazoo takes a decent amount of effort if you want to produce good sounds. So it clearly takes more tweaking effort, a learning investment, and a good objective ear for guitar tone to get anything worthwhile out of a modeling amp.

[Phil M]

Sounded good, but that guitar was really cool--gives me some ideas for a partsocaster!

I found this while looking for clips of Lollar pickups. I was digging how fat the guy's tone was for a bridge pickup and later noticed that he was playing through the Line 6... The tube snob in me was pretty surprised. I'll still have to play one in person to really believe it though, but I was impressed enough that next time I go to the store I'll try it beside a real tube amp and see how it compares.

This guy has really nice tone in his hands and obviously knows how to dial the better tones out of that amp. The other Line 6 demos I've seen are so bad that I couldn't believe it. Crazy cool guitar too. Makes me want to throw a tele bridge on my strat!

Dirty: http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=CCZbKmA77Lo (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=CCZbKmA77Lo)
Clean Tones: http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=8GLO0f0aXLg (http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=8GLO0f0aXLg)

[ronmail65]

This guy (quote below) nailed my experience too!! I almost went back to Line6 when the Spider Valve came out, but found myself very disapointed. The tube tone was great, but the tweak-ability on F/X was really crappy. Line 6's idea of scaling effects from say 1 to 10 on the Spider Valve amps was hitting on the 5 to 10 range of the original AxSys amps. I couldn't tame the F/X or make any fine adjustments which, in my opinion, you have to do on one of these modeling amps to really polish the tone. It was a deal breaker for me.

Line6 made too many compromises on the Spider Valve to maintain a low price point. The married a huge tonal advancement (Bogner tubes) with their cheapest amp models (the Spider). It was a real disapointment to me.

I'm hopeful they will introduce a newer, better valve-based modeling amp in the near future.



Well, this is a great thread. My opinions/experiences probably mean nothing here in The Gear Page community as I don't post often but what the heck, here I go:

I had a Line6 AX212 when they first came out. Soundmen were laughing all the time when I was showing up with my amp, cracking jokes about the "digital-computerized-toy" I was carrying. It was so simple: plug the amp, plug in the Floorboard and I was ready to gig. And the tone wasn't bad also, if you tweaked the amp a bit, if you learned to work with it. Man, I was gigging all the time, everywhere with anyone. And then I made some real money, started to buy more expensive amps (tube amps), you name it: Boogie, Marshall, Rivera... Combos, heads, rack setups... For the last 6 or 7 years, I bought and sold so many tube amps because I was struggling with them. To get to what I wanted, I needed like 3 amps - or a 4 channel amp. I'm a gig man and I play Metallica to Wallflowers and Pink Floyd, Beatles and ZZ Top in between. You get the idea. Now, I'm down to a Peavey Classic 50 combo, and despite the fact that it's superb sounding, it doesn't get the job done, even with pedals. I miss my AX212 and I'm not ashamed to say it. It wasn't the "Tone of God" but I could go from Metallica to Beatles in a click. What I'm saying is in all my 23 yrs of gigging, very few people in the audience care about "tone", they wanna be entertained and have fun, dance to the music and, in a way, be part of the band. I was never concerned about how my Line6 was going to sound night after night, it was consistent. Nothing will beat a good tube amp, nothing will beat that natural sound of a pushed tube but I still think I would be better served with my AX212, not because it's better than a tube amp, but because it's easy to get more than decent tones out of it for a lot less $$$. I am currently looking to get a Line6 amp, not sure if I'll go the "spider Valve" route or the "full solid state" route.

[SouthernShred]

I’m kinda tired of dealing with the inconsistencies of tube amps, trying to chase the perfect "one" that can sound like a cranked stack in any size room, trying to assemble the perfect collection of analog effects to achieve this huge range of sounds, tired of carrying the pedalboard from hell...I'm just tired of obsessing about gear and not creating...I'm spending time chasing down

I’m on the fence right now, partially due to my hearing (tinnitus, a lot of high end loss from standing in front of big amps for 15 years) and partially due to just wanting to stop fooling with gear and play, but leaning toward going digital again or just playing straight jazz on on archtop and giving up this crazy gear chase...gear is consuming me in a bad way...

[papa taco]

Didn't line 6 make an amp a couple years back that didn't have effects? I think it was strictly amp modelling and you could run 2 different models in stereo. Duotone, I think. Did anyone here ever try one? I think it was supposed to be pretty simple in operation, ie it looked just like a regular amp and didn't have all the menu bullpoop.

[buddaman71]

Didn't line 6 make an amp a couple years back that didn't have effects? I think it was strictly amp modelling and you could run 2 different models in stereo. Duotone, I think. Did anyone here ever try one? I think it was supposed to be pretty simple in operation, ie it looked just like a regular amp and didn't have all the menu bullpoop.


They did. GREAT idea; poor execution. Looked great and had awesome features, it just didn't sound very good.

[Tbone135]

I love my Pod XT; it's perfect for what I do. I built a good model of a very slightly overdriven Plexi 45 with a good bit of bass cut out and a bit of tube echo. It sounds really good with either an FD II or especially my Box of Rock in front of it. These days it's just pedal to Pod to a good DI box. Tweaking at home and through the performance PA makes all of the difference in the world.

[aaronmcoleman]

Let me preface all this by saying I own several very nice tube amps and a lot of classic pedals...

I bought a PODxt live from a friend of mine just to see if they were any good. I wanted to hate it but couldn't. I always knew (but couldn't admit to myself) that eventually these things would sound pretty good. I don't think they are 100% yet, but they are much better than even a couple years ago. One day (soon) digital modelers will be the way to go.

In fact, many, many bands tour with these things and NO AMPS. Weezer did it for a long time, and I've heard that a lot of live shows (such as SNL) won't allow bands to use amps and require PODs or something similiar. I still love my amps, but a guitar a cable and the POD is very convenient and sounds very good in every different room through any PA.

I am very glad to see an honest discussion on this page about modeling devices with no name calling or demeaning...could this be because they're actually pretty good?

[irok660]

I say tomayto, you say tomaato ...


I say.....mater!

[FromTx2]

having used a Line 6 Vetta II + fvb for over 3 years

I do an open mike night we are the 'house band" and let people come up and play

I ask "who or what you want to sound like?"

dial it in and you could not wipe the smile off their faces

for what its worth I was a total tube snob till I drove the Vetta II

[FromTx2]

http://i198.photobucket.com/albums/aa3/FromTx2/101_0344.jpg

[gag halfrunt]

having used a Line 6 Vetta II + fvb for over 3 years

I do an open mike night we are the 'house band" and let people come up and play

I ask "who or what you want to sound like?"

dial it in and you could not wipe the smile off their faces

for what its worth I was a total tube snob till I drove the Vetta II

Great story!

[Miles]

yeah......so.....uh.....I kinda sold my last tube amp for a Vetta II combo.


Ooops....


Not really, it sounds insane. Everything I liked in the Flextone times 5.

I played a gig at Iliff Park on Saturday as the headliners. My Jazzmaster into the Vetta II all night at had enormous tones. My monitor mix was also unbelievable and we had a great show.

It seems there are more converts by the day around here.

cheers,

miles

[guitarman_nebr]

Iliff Park Saloon? man, i have played a hundred gigs there back in the 80's!!

great stage!! always got a huge crowd there.........ah, the memories

[Miles]

Iliff Park Saloon? man, i have played a hundred gigs there back in the 80's!!

great stage!! always got a huge crowd there.........ah, the memories

Yep Iliff Park Saloon. Fun place, a lot of different kinds of people. A lot of bikers, and a lot of average joes. It's super loud and it still gets decent crowds.

[HEAVENandHELL]

I have a Flextone III 1x12 and FBV shortboard on its way! I already have a 6L6, an EL34, and EL84 amps so I figured I needed a solid state amp! Plus I wanted something extremely portable with ease of set up. Plus I think it will be fun to explore the models and find something that sounds great! I'll find out soon enough!