Power scaling,,,whoz using??

[CocoTone]

Anyone have an amp with powerscaling, or has anyone retro-fitted one to an exsisting design? Pors, cons are welcome. I have never been a fan of master volume. I am presently using a Weber Mass, but it is only good to a point, then things suffer.
I have looked at Suhr, and am impressed, but I have a perfectly good Supere Reverb,,,,so??? Your opinions are welcome guys!!

CT.:AOK

[phsyconoodler]

I use a post phase inverter master in my 18 watt amps and it works as well as power scaling.The trick is to use the right one.
You get wisper-level distortion and tons of tone.The master used on the TMB amps is lousy IMHO.I just did a PPIMV on a Dleuxe Reverb of all things,and it is heavenly.

[WesKuhnley]

PPIMV in conjunction with a scaled power stage (not pre amp) sounds almost good enough to my ear, but at the bottom end (apartment and townhome appropriate volumes) it gets a little wonky.

[Cosmik de Bris]

I use a post phase inverter master in my 18 watt amps and it works as well as power scaling.The trick is to use the right one.


What is the right one?

[mooreamps]

Anyone have an amp with powerscaling, or has anyone retro-fitted one to an exsisting design? Pors, cons are welcome.
CT.:AOK

I developed an electronic power scaling circuit, not the VVR, that seems to be bullet-proof for SE designs. I'll have a chance to wring it out on my next P/P 36 watt build. I have also installed it in a couple Fender Princetons, and various Valve Juniors. . . . .

-g

[daddyo]

I have a Reeves Custom 12 combo with power scaling. I also own a Weber MASS 50. I haven't tried the Weber on the Reeves but I've used it on a Velocette, DRRI, and a Traynor YCV 40. Both get a great distorted tone at moderate volumes but I believe the PS is a better at getting the clean and semi clean tone at moderate volumes. The Weber pulls a bit of the shimmer off the amp and I believe this is true of all attenuators. But even the PS is a compromise at whisper volumes. Another big advanatge to PS is it weighs nothing. The MASS weighs 15lbs and is big. Plus you have cables to run from the MASS that could potentially fail. My Reeves with a pine cab and Tonkerlite Neo speaker weighs around 22 lbs. I love it.

[RedMan]

I'm not a fan of power scaling. You're running the power tubes way off their sweet spot and it sounds like it. Pre and post power tube attenuators sound much better to me.

[CocoTone]

Man, now you are confusing me with all this techno-speak. What type of power scaling is used in the Badger? They sound outstanding, but I would rather retro fit my Super.

CT.

[RedMan]

I had a Badger for about a week. It sounded really good until you turned the power scaling down much. Probably around 200-250 volts on the power tubes was where it started not sounding very good.

[CocoTone]

Which one,,18 or 30?

CT.

[RedMan]

It was an 18.

[mooreamps]

I had a Badger for about a week. It sounded really good until you turned the power scaling down much. Probably around 200-250 volts on the power tubes was where it started not sounding very good.


Yes, I know. This is "precisely" the reason why I do not use the VVR power scaling circuit, as used in the Badger. My power brake works by keeping the plate voltages up high ; where they belong.

Probably one of the primary reasons why Mickey, and Dana, and VooDoo Man, and them others work so hard to try to get me kicked off of these forums ; including "Power Scaling [dot] Com to prevent people from learning about my design work. . .


-g

[Bussman]

...but I would rather retro fit my Super.

CT.

If you really like your amp, don't ruin it with extra circuitry. Here is what I do: Amp -> load box (homemade in my case, with Weber Mass motor) -> power amp -> speaker cab.

You could set your Weber Mass to load only and send the line out to a power amp and back to the speakers. Set your amp to its sweet spot and control the volume with the power amp

I often use one of the speaker emulating DIs instead of the power amp/speaker combo and send directly to PA/monitors or for silent recording at night. It's a very versatile set-up.

[Scottone]

Anyone have an amp with powerscaling, or has anyone retro-fitted one to an exsisting design? Pors, cons are welcome. I have never been a fan of master volume. I am presently using a Weber Mass, but it is only good to a point, then things suffer.
I have looked at Suhr, and am impressed, but I have a perfectly good Supere Reverb,,,,so??? Your opinions are welcome guys!!

CT.:AOK

I've been using power scaled amps for a few years now, starting with an early London Power Studio. I currently have a Stephenson 30 watt combo which is a fantastic amp.

If you want to go the powerscaling route, I would recommend buying an amp that was designed around it.

You're welcome to try out the Stephenson if you're in TO sometime..

Scott

[Scottone]

Yes, I know. This is "precisely" the reason why I do not use the VVR power scaling circuit, as used in the Badger. My power brake works by keeping the plate voltages up high ; where they belong.

Probably one of the primary reasons why Mickey, and Dana, and VooDoo Man, and them others work so hard to try to get me kicked off of these forums ; including "Power Scaling [dot] Com to prevent people from learning about my design work. . .


-g

I'm interested in hearing about your designs. Why don't you post another thread describing how your cirucuit works.....this is the amp tech board after all :D

[jackaroo]

As of now ? Not me, though I'm eager to see where it goes in the next 5 years.

Gary...
That sounds a little extreme/paranoid man.

In theory I'm opposed to Power Scaling in amps with a particular sonic architecture. It seems to me that a good attenuator/dummy load/re-amp set up is best on amps that rely on pre/power amp interaction. Here's my logic...based on no real world experience!

At least the amp/attenuator rig is getting the right voltage to the tubes, and trannies are functioning as if they're in a cranked amp. The only thing that's missing is the speakers getting pushed- provided the attenuator isn't mucking with the tone/feel.

With power scaling, there's usually two controls to balance to keep the ratios right, and on top of that the voltage and tranny being under utilized and the then the speakers not getting pushed. For some amps...the transformer getting maxxed is a key ingredient to the sound.

With a Master Volume, the Power tubes aren't getting used etc...

With stomp boxes the Pre-amp tubes aren't getting used etc...

The closer to the speakers the volume adjustment happens the more confident I am I can get a natural tone and feel.

That's not to say that some amps work great with all of the above methods, but those like Marshalls that need to get the power section and tranny working overtime to sound right...I'd bet they do better with an attenuator. But however you get there...just get there right?

Now, I bet there's cool ways of using the power scaling controls to get different tones, and I'd like to explore it in the future. But I don't think I'll install a PS kit in an existing amp ever. Especially an older amp with some value. But an amp with the PS designed into it from the ground up- different story...I'd give it a shot for sure- I just haven't explored it yet.

Granted, all this is just gut level speculation- based on a hunch. In fact, the examples of the tone of PS amps like the Badger that I've heard on the net sound spectacular enough for me to think about picking one up before the technology is perfected. I'm really excited to see what happens in the next 5 years with this stuff.

Too much coffee.

Time to practice.

J

[teefus]

i have yet to find a tube amp that sounds better at lower volumes. it seems to be counter-intuitive to try and make them fit that bill. a well designed master volume has always worked well for me, even in smaller, quieter venues. even the attenuators don't sound as good to my ear.

[CocoTone]

If you really like your amp, don't ruin it with extra circuitry. Here is what I do: Amp -> load box (homemade in my case, with Weber Mass motor) -> power amp -> speaker cab.

You could set your Weber Mass to load only and send the line out to a power amp and back to the speakers. Set your amp to its sweet spot and control the volume with the power amp

I often use one the speaker emulating DIs instead of the power amp/speaker combo and send directly to PA/monitors or for silentl recording at night. It's a very versatile set-up.

ISn't that how the Ultimate Attenuator works basically?? Its a re-amp type set up?

CT.

[Bussman]

I believe so. Yes.

[UR12]

Yes, I know. This is "precisely" the reason why I do not use the VVR power scaling circuit, as used in the Badger. My power brake works by keeping the plate voltages up high ; where they belong.

Probably one of the primary reasons why Mickey, and Dana, and VooDoo Man, and them others work so hard to try to get me kicked off of these forums ; including "Power Scaling [dot] Com to prevent people from learning about my design work. . .


-g

Gary, you get yourself kicked off of these forums so blame yourself and your condescending "I'm a God" and paranoid attitude. Just to set the record straight the Shur Badger isn't using the "VVR" circuit. It is either KOC's circuit or one that they came up with but not the VVR. They were using a version of Power Scaling in the badger before the VVR even existed. You are back to spreading misinformation and spewing forth garbage in an effort to sell your stuff.

You are controling the power output of the power tubes by varying the screen voltage on the tube and this method does alter the tone of the amp. This method was patented back in the late 70s and probably never caught on because of that reason.

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4286492 (http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT4286492)

You didn't design anything. I think everyone should learn about your design so they can decide for themselves what works for them. Unfortunatly, you won't say anything about it to the internet public because you are paranoid someone may steal "your" so called invention.


Build your amps and sell them on there merits instead of bashing other peoples circuits to try and make yours look like a better alternative. If it was as great as you let on, then I am sure every amp on the planet would have used it 20 years ago.

Dana

[jackaroo]

You been served!

[phsyconoodler]

If someone wants a picture of the PPIMV that I use just PM me and I'll send it to you.
As far as voltage regulator in an amp,that concept has been around for eons.There are lots of different ways to regulate voltage but I personally don't like the tone with power scaling.
Keeping the power tubes at the full voltage and running the preamp hard and slowly bleeding the signal into power section with a master done right seems to sound best to my ears.A power dampening mod like Mojave does is pretty good to.
The big thing is getting great tones at low volumes can be a fruitless search just because the speakers are what reproduces the tone and they are loafing when the amp is attenuated or scaled or whatever.
If you need to have an amp that low in volume,buy a solid state amp and use earphones.:phones

[UR12]

I agree completely with trying to get bedroom volumes to sound like an amp at full volumes. I think the option of having an amp that produces great tone at reduced volumes is a big plus. I don't know how many times I have heard a guy say my amp is just to loud for that venue. If you could reduce your volume enough to allow you to use one amp in a lot of those venues that require different volume levels and still produce the same tone then it is a great tool. It seems though that amps with variable power are getting bad raps because they can't be run at 1/10 of a watt and sound great. In that respect I agree with Pysconoodler. If you need something that plays that low then get some SS amp and earphones.

[CocoTone]

Well fellas, I hate to dissapoint you, but I use my amp to play gigs, not noodle in my bedroom, so I am not interested in whisper volume. I want great tone at the right volume for the room I am playing in. Hence, I want the right tool for the job. The Weber is close, real close, but anything past, say 8 on the attuation knob, high's go away, and it gets mushy.

CT.

[Bussman]

Since you already have the Mass—why don't you rent, borrow or steal a little power amp and give my suggestion a try at your next gig (or rehearsal, probably makes more sense then). It may be just what you are after and if not it'll be easy to disconnect two wires and fall back on what you are used to.

[CocoTone]

Since you already have the Mass—why don't you rent, borrow or steal a little power amp and give my suggestion a try at your next gig (or rehearsal, probably makes more sense then). It may be just what you are after and if not it'll be easy to disconnect two wires and fall back on what you are used to.


I am indeed going to try your suggestion. Actually, I wonder if I can do that with my Cube 60.

CT.

[mooreamps]

Gary, you get yourself kicked off of these forums so blame yourself and your condescending "I'm a God" and paranoid attitude.
Dana


BS !! I was discussing amplifier theory !!! I mentioned I developed my own electronic power brake. I stated I have certain design notes I was not willing to post on a public forum.
YOu and you're cronies jumped me !!! Shoved Hard Core Porn in my face, that got that forum banned by the US Airforce. You wanna pick a fight, come and get it ........

[booj]

I built a 20 watt 2203/MK2 design that goes down to .6 watts by dropping the plate voltage in the output stage, which is cathode biased.
As I turn the power down, the dynamic "window" gets smaller, which means I have to turn the master down a bit to "clean up" th signal, which makes things complicated, since I have to turn the amp down to use less power for the same sound!
Anyway, it's great for small venues where you're being told to "turn down", but you still want the same sound.
It doesn't, however give more sustain with less power, since that's an interaction between moving air and the guitar body, for the same amount of preamp gain.
The tone stays intact, though, so I dissagree with the staement by g that the plate voltage has to be kept high. I get .6 watts witha bout 150 plate volts. That's definately off the scale.

[UR12]

BS !! I was discussing amplifier theory !!! I mentioned I developed my own electronic power brake. I stated I have certain design notes I was not willing to post on a public forum.
YOu and you're cronies jumped me !!! Shoved Hard Core Porn in my face, that got that forum banned by the US Airforce. You wanna pick a fight, come and get it ........

:stir:messedup:BITCH:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy:crazy

Nice that you didn't dissagree with the rest of my post and that this is all you have to disscuss instead of the merits of your inventions.

[Bussman]

I am indeed going to try your suggestion. Actually, I wonder if I can do that with my Cube 60.

CT.

There are no laws that says you can't do it with a Cube. Experiment away.

However my take is that you want the signal chain to be as close to original as possible. I had a spare rack mounted reference amp lying around which is what lead me to try this out. It works best with a transparent amp between load box and speakers IMHO.

...It doesn't, however give more sustain with less power, since that's an interaction between moving air and the guitar body, for the same amount of preamp gain...

I get the same results with my system. The feel of being in a room with a loud amp can't be expected to remain the same as you turn down the power. Also expect to tweak the tone controls a bit, that Fletcher-Munson thing... you know.

[Scottone]

As far as voltage regulator in an amp,that concept has been around for eons.

Who as using a continuously variable regulator to control output power before London Power? Just curious.

[Mickey_C]

Yes, I know. This is "precisely" the reason why I do not use the VVR power scaling circuit, as used in the Badger. My power brake works by keeping the plate voltages up high ; where they belong.

Probably one of the primary reasons why Mickey, and Dana, and VooDoo Man, and them others work so hard to try to get me kicked off of these forums ; including "Power Scaling [dot] Com to prevent people from learning about my design work. . .


-g

Pardon me?!?!

You were kicked off of powerscaling.com for spamming us 3 times on the board, and ignored my private messages to stop spamming. If you were a licensed power scaling manufacturer, you could join for free and spam in the manufacturer announcements forum until you're blue in the face.

Following this wonderful spamming spree on our new site, you went to youtube to the Peter Thorn Badger video, and spammed there too, trashing the badger, and referring people to your own amp as superior. Pretty poor taste. So as I said in PM with that worldwide pattern (confirmed again here today) it's hard for us to see you wanting to sincerely contribute, and not just spam, libel, and slander.

MODERATORS: I think under the circumstances with somebody bringing this up here in this nature, I have a right to speak out against it. Let me know if I am incorrect.

[RedMan]

Who as using a continuously variable regulator to control output power before London Power? Just curious.

A guy named Eddie comes to mind. That was in the 70's. Crude, but it was the same idea.

[Voodoo_Man]

Well fellas, I hate to dissapoint you, but I use my amp to play gigs, not noodle in my bedroom, so I am not interested in whisper volume. I want great tone at the right volume for the room I am playing in. Hence, I want the right tool for the job. The Weber is close, real close, but anything past, say 8 on the attuation knob, high's go away, and it gets mushy.

CT.

Power Scaling would work for you then. Listen to the Badger video as the player begins to dial down the volume. sounds pretty darn good to my ears.

God Bless,
John

[CocoTone]

That Pete Thorn vid is what sold me. Sounds pretty amaazing. I actually liked the tone of the 18 more that the 30, but I think I need the extra wattage. I will have to try both.

CT.

[judyisjudy]

My sister and I have read most of the comments posted on this forum. It seems to us when gary writes a comment, it tends to on a technical nature, and some people react negatively against it. We can't see how that can be garys fault. We can see how it can be garys fault for over-reacting against the negativity, but if it is true someone posted hard core porn on this forum, then we will agree that's taking things a little bit too far, and find that to be personally insulting.

Mickey, we know about your web site. We don't see any spam there ? Maybe you need to just let this go. OK ?

Gary, dear. Just let this go. OK, so maybe these guys can be a little harsh. So what. So what do they care what you do ? We would like to see you continue with your work, and maybe someday you will build something people will like.

[sliberty]

I've installed Dana's VVR in an Express type circuit, and I have also used an Airbrake with that amp. Both loose most of their usefulness once the volume gets down to bedroom levels (that elusive feature noone has yet achieved). I doubt it has anything to do with either solution - I think the biggest factor is that the speakers are simply not moving enough air for the tone to remain exciting. The VVR actually does a gmreat job of reducing the volume to a mid level however. I think it sound much better than the Airbrake reducing the volume to the same level. The Airbrake starts to get a bit buzzy past position 3 on the dial.

[UR12]

My sister and I have read most of the comments posted on this forum.

You should try some of the other forums like ampgarage.com to get some of Gary's choice material before forming an opinion. Just do a search there on mooreamps and see what pops up. It should be enlightning:horse

[mooreamps]

Well, all my amplifiers will have my circuit of electronic power brakeing for the power tubes. In the combo amp that I am track to build for Maurice, it will actually have two power brakes. {subject of this thread, so I am just answering the man's question} ; one power brake for each set of power tubes, for the pair of EL-84's and for the pair of 6V6's.

-peace


-g

[CocoTone]

Not much info on the net on Moore Amps,,,am I missing something?? The vids on youtube aren't very good either, so I can't get a handle on your products. They look like modified Epiphone amps. B Do you have a site or something??

CT.

[kiteflyer]

a little late for this comment, but...

I installed the London Power DC scaling kit into an AC30 build and I think it's killer. Setting to around 60-70% is exactly what I wanted out of my AC30 at gigging volume. At low volume it gets a little strange- I don't have a drive control installed so distortion is through the roof; but I like those sounds for what they are too.

oh, and the kit was fairly easy to install.

my 0.02c

[UR12]

Not much info on the net on Moore Amps,,,am I missing something?? The vids on youtube aren't very good either, so I can't get a handle on your products. They look like modified Epiphone amps. B Do you have a site or something??

CT.

What a wonderful idea! Gary, why don't you take some of that six figure income you keep bragging about and start up a nice mooreamps.com webpage complete with your own forum. That way you could ban all of us "troublemakers" and you could bash myself, KOC. S2 and MickeyC all you want in the privacy of your own forum. I know you must have a few dollars left over after paying the trademark fee on "Electronic Power Scaleing". You could also highlight all of your amp models so that people like CT could tell the difference between GM5/GM10/GM18. It gets a little confusing as they all look like modified VJs. You might actually pick up so much business that you would spend all your time building amps and not have any left over to frequent the public forums anymore.:AOK

[daddyo]

What is it about Power Scaling that brings out the venom? It used to be old Maven Peal diving in for a scrap, now it's Moore Amps.

[mooreamps]

Not much info on the net on Moore Amps,,,am I missing something?? The vids on youtube aren't very good either, so I can't get a handle on your products. They look like modified Epiphone amps. B Do you have a site or something??

CT.

That's because there is not much info there on the web. I only wanted to biuld amps, and my wife was the main push to try to commercialize it. The videos were recorded with a cheap cam corder. I wanted to use a better {more expensive} camera and mic, but that got shot down as well. Yes, it is true I used the Epip chassis as I did my first engineering prototypes. Now, all my builds are full scratch builds, maybe 4 or 5 a year is about as much as I can do at the moment. I have a web page ; somewhere ; but I haven't updated it since I started my 813 project. I know a lot of this has just blown up in my face, and probably nothing can be done about that. .


My products are custom design amplifiers for clients who are looking for specific configurations not found on the market. My 36 watt SE amp is an example of this . The only reason I biult it, a client in Sydney wanted an SE amp with the KT-88. So I blended that tube with an EL-34 to create the model-36 amplifier. . As for the others who regularly "reply" to most of the comments I write here on the web, since my work on amplifiers is probably so far over their heads, perhaps it just no longer matters how they react to it. .

-g

[Scottone]

As for the others who regularly "reply" to most of the comments I write here on the web, since my work on amplifiers is probably so far over their heads, perhaps it just no longer matters how they react to it. .

-g

You haven't posted any details of your circuits...please enlighted us.

[Voodoo_Man]

As for the others who regularly "reply" to most of the comments I write here on the web, since my work on amplifiers is probably so far over their heads, perhaps it just no longer matters how they react to it. .

-g

:moon:stir

God Bless,
John

[judyisjudy]

Is this what you people do? You take the man's money, and then kick him around ? How about we will guarentee some of you people will never work in the music industry here in LA ? Maybe you can think about just how funny that is ?

[daddyo]

Is this what you people do? You take the man's money, and then kick him around ? How about we will guarentee some of you people will never work in the music industry here in LA ? Maybe you can think about just how funny that is ?
You've got us all quaking in our boots now. What does your sister think?
:messedup

[Voodoo_Man]

Is this what you people do? You take the man's money, and then kick him around ? How about we will guarentee some of you people will never work in the music industry here in LA ? Maybe you can think about just how funny that is ?

I'm not into Rap or Hip-Hop anyways. BTW, where is LA anywho?

God Bless,
John

[UR12]

Is this what you people do? You take the man's money, and then kick him around ? How about we will guarentee some of you people will never work in the music industry here in LA ? Maybe you can think about just how funny that is ?

Judy,
You are starting to sound like one of Gary's alter personalities :crazyguy. You misspell words like Gary, you don't form proper sentences like Gary, you threaten people like Gary, you have only posted regarding Gary on this and other forums and you got me thinking maybe JudyisGary? :roll.

I have never taken any money from Gary (Has he paid you to say these things?) and I will guarantee you I will never come to LA to work in the music industry:bow

[CocoTone]

Hmmmm,,,4 posts and they're talkin' tough already!! Doesn't much matter anyways. After the fires, LA is going to slide into the ocean. Seeya!

CT.:cool:

[mooreamps]

No, it's very true. I've paid money to support those other forums. Others have posted schmatics trying to reverse engineer my model 5 amp. I never worried about that part since those prints are so generic in nature with self bias in the pre-amp instead of fixed bias, no PA voicing, and no power scaling. Fine, no skin off my nose. Those generic layouts will just be nothing more than noisey hissy dull sounding tone anyway . . . .

[Mickey_C]

No, it's very true. I've paid money to support those other forums. Others have posted schmatics trying to reverse engineer my model 5 amp. I never worried about that part since those prints are so generic in nature with self bias in the pre-amp instead of fixed bias, no PA voicing, and no power scaling. Fine, no skin off my nose. Those generic layouts will just be nothing more than noisey hissy dull sounding tone anyway . . . .

Gary,

No offense intentded, but you're sounding more paranoid by the day; maybe it's time you take a break from all this, cool-down, and try to be more objective? It's highly unlikely anybody cares to reverse engineer your amps. If people want variable power designs, the complete detailed schematics to build power scaling into an amp are free, and available online already without mumbo-jumbo and self-professed wizardry.

If I could give you some friendly advice: players don't care how an amp works inside, be it masterminded technology or gerbils with tesla coils. They only want amps that sound as they expect them to, with the features that meet their needs, at a price proportionate to the quality delivered. Everything else amounts to ad-copy. Focus on fulfilling customer needs and forget about hyping how your tricks work to other builders; ultimately if you succeed at the former, you won't need to hype the latter at all, as you will have made your point in being the manufacturer of a coveted design.

Furthermore, if you stop dragging Power Scaling User Group members into these discussions with ridiculous statements like you've made above about us kicking you off our site out of fear (when it was actually for spamming), I, for one, would have no objection to you joining up again.

Best of luck, and health,

Mickey

(And now I must return to teaching these damn hamsters what they are supposed to do when that green light comes on inside the amp).

[banjoze]

gerbils and teslca coils!!!

Now that's an innovative new approach... And all this time I thought gerbils were useless....

[mooreamps]

On this thread, people ask technical questions. I have written comments accordingly. Be more objective. What do you mean "be more objective" ? Further, I have nothing to be paranoid about. The circuitly for an audio amplifier is about as basic as it gets.


True when I do this sort of thing, it does allow me to be ; how should I say ; "somewhat creative". Besides I have plenty of data and working prototype models to back up what I write about. . I'd a thought those who are only gigging guitar players would be looking at different threads; not the one's labeled "Amp Technical Info".

I could fix your VVR, abate the heat problem {only meaning it would run a lot cooler} and probably could solve the in-rush current problem which has illoded Kevin by using a couple of current transformers. I even have a fix for your VVR pre-amp bias problem. That was an easy one.. .. . Maybe I give that one to Kevin, if he wants it.. . . . Otherwise, I'm content to use my circuit for now.

-g

[UR12]

On this thread, people ask technical questions. I have written comments accordingly. Be more objective. What do you mean "be more objective" ? Further, I have nothing to be paranoid about.



“Others have posted schmatics trying to reverse engineer my model 5 amp. I never worried about that part since those prints are so generic in nature with self bias in the pre-amp instead of fixed bias, no PA voicing, and no power scaling. Fine, no skin off my nose. Those generic layouts will just be nothing more than noisey hissy dull sounding tone anyway . . . .”

This is a good example of why people think you are paranoid. If you take all of those circuits out of your “Model 5 amp” (which is nothing moore than a VJ with the mods you mentioned above) you have a unmodified $99 VJ. So if you believe the original VJ to be noisy, hissy and dull without your mods. Technically speaking, what exactly is any of the mods you spoke about doing to correct any of those three problems in the VJ as you see it? You have always built or supposedly designed circuits that are bells and whistles and then you purport them to be fixes for problems that do not exist.

I could fix your VVR, abate the heat problem {only meaning it would run a lot cooler} and probably could solve the in-rush current problem which has illoded Kevin by using a couple of current transformers. I even have a fix for your VVR pre-amp bias problem. That was an easy one.. .. . Maybe I give that one to Kevin, if he wants it.. . . . Otherwise, I'm content to use my circuit for now.

There you go again, making up problems that don’t exist. I personally don’t need or want your help. There is no heat problem with the VVR. All variable voltage regulator or fixed regulator circuits, like your dual filament “regulated” power supply design that use solid state devices create heat. Tubes create heat. It has been pointed out so many times that I don’t care to count by knowledgeable people that the heat generated inside the amp actually goes down using a “Power Scaling” type circuit. You see fit however to make up problems that don’t need fixing in order to bash myself, KOC and others instead of talking about the merits of your own so called invention.

I have posted the VVR circuit schematic for cathode biased amps on a few forums on the web for anyone who wants to experiment with it to do so for free. As far as I am concerned it is public domain and as such you are free to down load the schematic and make any mods to it you wish. So if you believe you have a “Fix” for it why not post it for everyone to use? My guess is that you would be too paranoid to do that so prove me wrong.

There is no preamp bias problem either. The fact that you like to use a diode or led to bias your preamp tube cathodes does not mean anyone else does. Not all of us want an led to turn on to tell us our preamp tube is working (if sound is coming out of the amp that usually means they are working) and then blow the led when the tube shorts leaving us stranded with no amp for the night even though we have a spare tube. You can still configure the VVR to regulate the power tubes and leave the preamp running at normal voltages if people want to use it in an amp with a fixed bias preamp. Unlike your circuit it can be used in a variety of scenarios from cathode bias to fixed bias , SE or PP. You know the stuff you keep saying you are going to do but never actually do.

And lastly, I will say this one moore time. You were kicked off of the other forums because of you and no one else. You have been banned on Powerscaling.com, 18watt, Sewatt, The Amp Garage and who knows how many others. The last being Sewatt where you posted “you would like to see someone put a 12ga to my head and pull the trigger” That was the last technical advice they let you offer on that forum.:horse

[judyisjudy]

and you did nothing to provoke him ? My sister and I have read some of your comments too, mr. ur12. You don't exactly come off as a mister nice guy either. Maybe all of you boys just need calm down, and just let it go.

[hasserl]

I'm with Pyschonoodler on this for the most part, a good post PI MV is very easy to install, is much less invasive than a Power Scaling system and will give most of the benefits. A decent power scaling systems needs a MV also anyway, kind of makes the PS redundant. The Pete Thorn video on the Suhr Badger: http://youtube.com/watch?v=HBUxUB-6qjw shows that PS does not really do any better of a job of providing reduced volume without any effect on tone than a decent Attenuator does. Check it out, the PS part of the demo starts at about 8 min's in. I've used Weber Mass, Weber Load Dump and my own homebrew resistive attenuators and feel any of them provide as good volume reduction as PS, by that video. If someone has other video or audio showing the effect better than the Thron video, please post it, I'd like to see.

About a year or more ago somebody posted a thread on the Amps and Cabs forum with sound clips he made using several different attenuators, a Hotplate, a MASS, an Airbrake; the clips were recorded at different attenuation settings then adjusted so all levels were the same, and they were posted in the thread without any labels as to which was which. We had to guess which was attenuated, which wasn't, and which attenuator was used on the clips that were. There wasn't one person here who could ID which was which, not one. It was a great demonstration that attenuators really do a great job at bringing down the volume while maintaining the tone. Perceived differences are mostly due to psychoacoustics (with a bit of Fletcher Munson thrown in).

Power scaling has an advantage though of reducing stress on the power tubes, and not having to lug an attenuator around. Attenuators have an advantage of not requiring invasive mods and being easily transfered to a different amp.

I think they both have their advantages and neither is perfect, but I don't see PS being better than attenuation, just different.

I've messed with attenuators with pretty good success, I may try my hand at PS at some point too. I have some ideas I'd like to try. Not sure if they are workable or not.

[RedMan]

I think a well executed PPIMV or reactive attenuator both have less audible difference in tone when turned down than the power scaling amp I had for a week, which was a Badger. Add that to the extra effort to implement and greater chance of breakdowns with the added solid state circuitry and its really a no brainer to me. A PPIMV has the added advantage of longer tube life so that's the clear winner for me.

[Nomadgtr]

I want to see those gerbils too Mickey! I know how a comm guy reacts when he's holding both wires for a field phone and you ring from the distant end. Do the gerbils respond in a similar fashion to the tesla coils???:rotflmao

[phsyconoodler]

I just built an 18 watt lite with a PPIMV and it does serious grind at apartment volume levels.
Power scaling is a trendy thing right now and because of all the hype involved with it,some amp builders charge quite a bit extra for it.
Try this:Install a PPIMV and a power dampening mod like the Mojave uses and you will get a lower volume grind than power scaling can provide.And all the preamp tubes are still cooking along at normal voltages.If you power scale the power section and 'clamp' the preamp tubes,you get the same effect.Actually power scaling is easy to do if you use your noggin.It's just a voltage regulator alot like the one in your car's alternator.
One thing that makes me wonder about these 'self proclaimed' amp guru designers is this:why can't they spell?Guess it wasn't a requirement at rocket school.

[judyisjudy]

We don’t see anything pretentious about Gary. If in fact, he really is, or was a Navy ET, maybe he’s just doing what his advanced Navy training allows him to do. That does not make him any more self proclaimed than more than half of the articles I’ve read written by some of the other guys.

[phsyconoodler]

Lets get one thing straight right now.I have great respect for vets as my father was a WWII vet and they deserve a great deal from us back here at home.
However,building amps is a different matter.I am in no position to question his credentials as an Electrical Engineer,but to date there have been no credible examples that he can build a decent sounding amplifier.His U-Tube videos are awful sounding and it's not the type of equipment he is using.The amps are just mediocre and until he realizes we are not dumping on him as a person,but rather on the claims he makes.
I would love to have the opportunity to work with someone like Gary and maybe if he was willing,indeed make a great amplifier.
He needs to stop answering these posts and concentrate on his amp designs.Get them in the hands of decent players and get their critique on them.People are easily distracted and if he were to actually do an amp video or sound clip that blew peoples socks off,his past descrepancies would soon be forgotten.People like to see results,not baseless claims with nothing to back it up.
I can see that you are trying to champion his cause because you think people are ganging up on him.I applaud you for that,but you must realize that true amp designers like Howard Dumble for example,had to PROVE that his amps were better than the generic stuff out there.
If Gary did that,we would all bow down and proclaim his expertise.
Untill that happens,we are all skeptical school children.
Humility goes a long way with people.

[judyisjudy]

If you are thinking the tone in his videos is going to sound the same as what one would hear in a studio recording, I can assure you this is not going to be the case.
The tone you hear on the videos is the raw unprocessed sound ; granted recorded through a video cam of some kind. It is the same tone one would hear before it goes through the channel filter and then re-mixed with the rest of the tracks. The raw filtered guitar sound before the mix is actually quite flat and thin sounding, and then after the mix it tends to regain much of it’s timber and chime. If this is what the raw tone sounds like, would be interesting to hear it after being professionally recorded and properly mixed in a studio environment. Yes, we can tell when the sound on a video has been through a mixer, and then re-inserted back in.

[phsyconoodler]

That may be true to an extent,however,there are lots of U-Tube videos that use even cheaper cam-corders and they sound just fine.They don't record them and mix them down.
In fact,some of the best sound reproduction I have heard is with my old Sears VHS camera.It takes a full sized VHS tape and has a great mic on it.No need for a studio recording to get the idea of a great sounding amplifier.
If you go to my website and listen to the sound clips,the V-Verb is recorded with the Sears camera.About the cheapest one ever made by man.The other clips are recorded and my friend used a DAT machine.I have no idea how the rest was done,not being a recording tech.But these are all done in my front room or the basement.No studios or high-priced recording sessions.My friend's did it for me.
So if they truly sound great,get some decent recording done and lets hear it.

[WesKuhnley]

Yes, we can tell when the sound on a video has been through a mixer, and then re-inserted back in.


Can you? Really? You must have the ears of a hawk...

I submit into evidence a video I made for one of my amps. Recording was (obviously, you can see the microphones and signal chain in the video) done simultaneously, then synced back up in post...by hand mind you...no timecode on a handicam! Even though the recorded tracks were mixed down separately, I think it sounds very authentic, not like most clips out there on the net. All it takes is a little know how, and a couple hours in iMovie.

Barely Legal 18 (http://www.vimeo.com/1115188)

[CocoTone]

In the car biz we have a saying,,,detail for retail. You wouldn't try to sell a dirty car with bald tires and a broken windshield. Same goes for sound samples of your amps. Mickey mOUSE.
CT.

[mooreamps]

Can you? Really? You must have the ears of a hawk...

I submit into evidence a video I made for one of my amps. Recording was (obviously, you can see the microphones and signal chain in the video) done simultaneously, then synced back up in post...by hand mind you...no timecode on a handicam! Even though the recorded tracks were mixed down separately, I think it sounds very authentic, not like most clips out there on the net. All it takes is a little know how, and a couple hours in iMovie.

Barely Legal 18 (http://www.vimeo.com/1115188)

Yes it is a very good recording, and a very good sounding rig. I was playing through my 18 watt last night with my Les Paul. My 18 watt is different sounding, certainly when playing chords. Maybe I made it "too fat", I don't know. But I certainly get some really hard crunch out of the power tubes when I turn down the power brake. In any event, it's my design, and I'm still proud of it.

As for the topic of this thread, after much thought, I will still use electronic power scaling in all of my builds. If nothing else, it is still a safe way to put the power tubes into a stand-by condition ; during either power on or power off. I've been using this circuit for a couple years now, and I can safely say it's about as bullet-proof as you can get.

Judy;
Thank you for the kind words. In the future I'll see about patching in a better mic into my movie camera.

-g