Ceriatone Overtone

[Ed Reed]

I bought one back in January. It's a good amp. Than all the buzz came along about the "umble" mods. I tried buying some caps and resistors from Mouser but after two failed atempts at getting the right parts, I emailed Nik (Ceriatone's owner) and ask if he could hook me up with the correct stuff. He says sure, $20.00 for all shipped. It took a couple of weeks to arrive and I finally got them all in. The amp sounds much smoother and takes pedals better than before. A TS-9 now sounds really good where before I didn't care for one at all. So my first impressions of the amp are, the "tweeked" circuit does sound better but not not worlds better the "stock" amp had it's own thing going and with a few knob adjustments sounded very good as was. For a clean to low gain channel switcher that takes pedals well this is an amp that holds it's own against many others that cost twice as much.

There now is a #umble-a-tor clone that Nik is selling to "fix" the passive effects loop. I have yet to get one but it is on my short list.

[fullerplast]

Yeah, as one of the early owners I was perfectly happy with the stock amp. I did spend some time learning to set it up, experiment with the trimmer and gain structure, tubes, EQ, speakers, etc.

With the mod frenzy, I finally figured I may as well try them. It was pretty much a non-event for me considering how much fanfare there was. With everything set the same as the stock amp, the mods put a "mellow blanket" on the amp. So I did what I did with the stock amp.....play with the gain, trimmer, and EQ. I had to bump up the trimmer and crank up the treble, mid, and presence to get back some bite and crunch that the stock amp had. So I ended up simply tweaking it in a different direction, that's all.

So after playing with various guitars and several gigs, it's close to what the stock amp was but still missing some cut and edge. As I had speculated earlier, the modded amp sounds fine playing solo....kinda like the way I like to use a tele neck pickup at home, but rarely can in a band environment.....but it still does not sit in a band mix as well as the stock amp did. The net result is that I will be backing out the mods one at a time as I get some rainy day time to see if I can find a happy medium, but in the meantime it's no big deal at all. Putting a long cable in the effects loop made about as much of a change as the mods....not entirely, but close.

I could be happy with the amp in either configuration, I suspect that my optimum setup may be somewhere in between the two.....or maybe I'll just swap a tube.....or put a different cable or d'lator in the effects loop.....or twist a knob.;)

[Ed Reed]

Hmmm... maybe a guy could find the "best" cable to dim the tone just right and sell those suckers. :D

[Ayan]

Yeah, as one of the early owners I was perfectly happy with the stock amp. I did spend some time learning to set it up, experiment with the trimmer and gain structure, tubes, EQ, speakers, etc.

With the mod frenzy, I finally figured I may as well try them. It was pretty much a non-event for me considering how much fanfare there was. With everything set the same as the stock amp, the mods put a "mellow blanket" on the amp. So I did what I did with the stock amp.....play with the gain, trimmer, and EQ. I had to bump up the trimmer and crank up the treble, mid, and presence to get back some bite and crunch that the stock amp had. So I ended up simply tweaking it in a different direction, that's all.

So after playing with various guitars and several gigs, it's close to what the stock amp was but still missing some cut and edge. As I had speculated earlier, the modded amp sounds fine playing solo....kinda like the way I like to use a tele neck pickup at home, but rarely can in a band environment.....but it still does not sit in a band mix as well as the stock amp did. The net result is that I will be backing out the mods one at a time as I get some rainy day time to see if I can find a happy medium, but in the meantime it's no big deal at all. Putting a long cable in the effects loop made about as much of a change as the mods....not entirely, but close.

I could be happy with the amp in either configuration, I suspect that my optimum setup may be somewhere in between the two.....or maybe I'll just swap a tube.....or put a different cable or d'lator in the effects loop.....or twist a knob.;)

If the amp, or any amp with a single mater volume, is balanced tonewise from clean to dirty, I would strongly recommend you carefully select a brightness cap around the master volume. Dumble has used anywhere betweem 15pF tp 47pF in the non HRM amps. I personally like 30pF for the non HRM amps.

There are a lot of variables: ROOM, tubes, length and quality of cables used throughout, whether or not you use a pedalboard, needles to say guitar used, etc. I made a buffer for my pedalboard such that the treble response of the amp is more or less the same with or without the pedalboard. I like for the amp to be usable with and without a pedalboard and with and without stuff in the FX loop. Go too far towards bright or smooth and you may have some issues. Also, don't underestimate the power of all bright switches (the amp's + both Dumbleator's bright switches) as well as the presence control.

Gil

[fullerplast]

Hmmm... maybe a guy could find the "best" cable to dim the tone just right and sell those suckers. :D


;) You laugh, but the difference between various cables in the loop (both length and type) was pretty obvious....more so than I had expected! I think I actually had more good results with this than with a dumbleator (by itself) in the loop.

It makes me think that a rotary capacitance switch to ground at the loop might be a cool thing to have, as that is the dominant parameter with cable swaps. 30pF per foot is significant!

[scottl]

I agree with Gil btw. I have a master volume bright cap in ALL of my amps. But I also use the loop. I find the tone much more satisying for me with the capacitive loss of the loop in conjunction with the bright cap.

I never advocated snipping it in the Ceriatone, fwiw.

[fullerplast]

If the amp, or any amp with a single mater volume, is balanced tonewise from clean to dirty, I would strongly recommend you carefully select a brightness cap around the master volume. Dumble has used anywhere betweem 15pF tp 47pF in the non HRM amps. I personally like 30pF for the non HRM amps.

There are a lot of variables: ROOM, tubes, length and quality of cables used throughout, whether or not you use a pedalboard, needles to say guitar used, etc. I made a buffer for my pedalboard such that the treble response of the amp is more or less the same with or without the pedalboard. I like for the amp to be usable with and without a pedalboard and with and without stuff in the FX loop. Go too far towards bright or smooth and you may have some issues. Also, don't underestimate the power of all bright switches (the amp's + both Dumbleator's bright switches) as well as the presence control.

Gil

Thanks for the tips Gil. I currently have the 15pF cap clipped and that will be one of the first things to go back, maybe to 30pF as you suggest.

I don't generally use a pedalboard with these amps, or even anything in the loop except maybe a delay (with a dumblelator) or a cable (without a dumblelator).

I've reduced the stock bright switch to 120pF and it's much more useable. One of the Dumblelator's bright switches works OK, but the other is too much for me...I forget which right now. Of course it all depends on what is in the loop too.

I get the feeling I went maybe one or two mods too far from stock, so I'll slowly work back. But really, it's just getting that last 10% at this point. No big deal.

[fullerplast]

I agree with Gil btw. I have a master volume bright cap in ALL of my amps. But I also use the loop. I find the tone much more satisying for me with the capacitive loss of the loop in conjunction with the bright cap.

I never advocated snipping it in the Ceriatone, fwiw.

Yeah, it was on the mod list but it's the first thing going back! Of course it's a function of where you set your master also.....it's a diminishing effect as the vol goes up.

Agree that the capacitance in the loop can be a very sweet thing.

[AlexF]

... and dont forget the biggest variable of all - the right speaker! ;)
Al

[fullerplast]

... and dont forget the biggest variable of all - the right speaker! ;)
Al

Absolutely! After going through all the usual suspects I settled on an EVM12L for this amp. Speaker, tubes, trimmers, and EQ before any mods. At this point, I'd even add effects loop variables to that list.

[Ayan]

Thanks for the tips Gil. I currently have the 15pF cap clipped and that will be one of the first things to go back, maybe to 30pF as you suggest.

I don't generally use a pedalboard with these amps, or even anything in the loop except maybe a delay (with a dumblelator) or a cable (without a dumblelator).

I've reduced the stock bright switch to 120pF and it's much more useable. One of the Dumblelator's bright switches works OK, but the other is too much for me...I forget which right now. Of course it all depends on what is in the loop too.

I get the feeling I went maybe one or two mods too far from stock, so I'll slowly work back. But really, it's just getting that last 10% at this point. No big deal.

Yes, there is one 1,000pF in the Dumbleator bright that's huge on the "send" side. However, you can and should try this: engage the Dumbleator send switch and play with the send pot until you get a good transition between bright switch off and on. Then, reduce the master volume from the amp so that the send pot can stay where it is, achieving optimal signal level at your FX input. There are a number of very valid settings when introducing the Dumbleator into the mix...

Learn to use you gear as well as you can, use tape to mark where the controls should be for different applications and you may find that you can do anything you want -- in terms of balancing "brightness" Vs "shimmer" Vs "treble", etc. You could, for example, have everything optimized for when you use single coils such that the very same settings will work well with humbucker by just flipping one of the Dumbleator bright switches. It does get pretty mind boggling, and you will change the tonality based upon how hard you're driving the cathode follower of the Dumbleator as well.

Gil

[fullerplast]

Yes, there is one 1,000pF in the Dumbleator bright that's huge on the "send" side. However, you can and should try this: engage the Dumbleator send switch and play with the send pot until you get a good transition between bright switch off and on. Then, reduce the master volume from the amp so that the send pot can stay where it is, achieving optimal signal level at your FX input. There are a number of very valid settings when introducing the Dumbleator into the mix...
Gil

Ahhhh, so there is something to make sense of that bright switch. I'll have to play with that. The whole gain structure does get pretty mind boggling once you add the Dumbleator....that makes a total of six gain adjustments, seven if you include the trim pot!

Again, thanks for the tips.:AOK

[RedRock]

And remember, if a bright cap is too bright, you can always "pad"
it with a 220k or 330k carbon comp 1/2 watt resistor in series
with the cap.

[Mondoslug]

I would have absolutely sold the head by now if I hadn't have done the mods. It sounds better to me. YMMV naturally.

[Ed Reed]

Ayan, it would never do if I lived near your house, I'd be bugging you all the time about amps and mods.

Thanks for ALL your input on this amp and it's tweeks, very kind of you to share your knowlege with us mere mortals.

Oh, and by the way, I still like the Box of Rock in front of the amp. It works very well there for me.

[AlexF]

Absolutely! After going through all the usual suspects I settled on an EVM12L for this amp. Speaker, tubes, trimmers, and EQ before any mods. At this point, I'd even add effects loop variables to that list.

I've been in this game a long time, currently I'm using a Fane alnico 12 and an old H30 together, its not quite right, and I just KNOW from experience this amp is crying out for an EVM12L, so I believe you're spot on.
Al

[Ed Reed]

I'm using 2 G12-65 speakers, they sound pretty good. I also just found a wonderful boost to use with the amp, a Keeley compressor. It works well on the clean channel but I'm surprised just how good it sounds on the lead channel. I've settled on the gain set on 2, with the internal gain set at almost 11:00 I'm getting all the breakup I need with a strat.

[Ayan]

Ayan, it would never do if I lived near your house, I'd be bugging you all the time about amps and mods.

Thanks for ALL your input on this amp and it's tweeks, very kind of you to share your knowlege with us mere mortals.

Oh, and by the way, I still like the Box of Rock in front of the amp. It works very well there for me.

My pleasure. As I have stated before, I myself got a lot of help along the way and therefore feel the least I can do it give some of that back to the universe and try to help others.

Cheers,

Gil