Why We Prefer JJ Tubes (A letter from Eurotubes to TGP) [Archive]

Lucidology

06-20-2008, 07:18 PM

Here's a letter from Bob at Eurotubes which he gave me permission to post here..
It's a reaction to this thread I started yesterday:

Eurotube's JJ drop in Kits for Most Amps ...Cheers for Bob Pletka!! - The Gear Page (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=405841)
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Hi Joseph:

Many thanks for all the kind words from everyone! So, since I don’t post on forums I’ll ramble for a couple minutes and you are of course welcome to post any response I give.

A long time ago I did post on a forum for a while and it was a good experience for a short period of time until a couple of forumites decided that all they wanted to do was have flame wars.

It was always about the same thing which was my decision to deal with JJ Electronic on new production tubes. As most of my customers know we deal in JJ and NOS but the NOS market is getting so picked over that a lot of the preamp tubes I was selling in the past are not on the block anymore. It’s not because they are better than anything else, it’s just that they cannot be replaced. It’s kind of like the 36 Knuckle head in my garage.

I do listen to all the new offerings including all the sovtek mullards, tungsols etc and quite honestly I just do not care for them. The sovtek tungsol is probably the better sounding out of all of them but in my humble opinion it falls way short of the JJ’s. In fact all of us here partake in running lots of different tubes thru all of the amps in the studio.

I totally respect the fact that others really like the chinese and russian tubes. I always say that the world would be a boring place if everybody liked the same exact thing!

What we have found out thru the years is that all tubes are not created equal and there is a huge difference from tube to tube. For instance an EI 12AX7 that actually tests out strong sounds very good but the consistency is so poor we can’t deal with them.

We are in our tenth year now and during this time we have done research on just about every amp out there to see if they respond better to a tube with a lower, moderate or high gain or current output and what power tubes and bias settings work well. We also document all the fixed bias amps like the Mesa’s and Peavey’s for example, so that we know what gets the bias right.

The tone and dynamic that a tube displays has a LOT to do with how it tests out and this is why we pay particular attention to picking out tubes based on the amp they go in and the player’s style. This was one of the big reasons I decided to do the retube kit thing.

Of course you have to use good gear. Older tube testers won’t tell you much. In fact we just took position of an Amplitrex AT1000 http://www.amplitrex.com/at1000.html (http://www.amplitrex.com/at1000.html) and this thing is amazing! It will set you back about 3K when decked out but so far we are amazed at its abilities. It has our VTV Characterizers cowering in the corner.

One of the other reasons I don’t post on forums is lack of time. It isn’t just me anymore. As most of you know there are several of us here now all the time. Jay and my son Eddie help me answer all of the email and phone calls while Carla rides heard over the office. Eddie has been retubing, repairing and biasing amps for locals now taking a lot of that load off of me. Craig, Aaron and Michael handle the QC end of things.

One of the things I like to point out to people who question what we sell is that if I was doing this just to sell as many tubes as possible the first thing I would do is to sell the chinese and russian tubes simply because they are cheaper with a higher profit margin where the JJ’s are more expensive at a wholesale level.

Anyway, enough rambling! We all do what we do because we are players, not suits who can’t tell you if you AC30 needs to be biased or not.

Thanks

Bob

SouthernShred

06-20-2008, 07:21 PM

Nice letter!

Blue Strat

06-20-2008, 07:48 PM

I don't suppose it could have anything to do with the fact that Bob is an expatriot of Slovakia and possible preferential treatment he gets on pricing?

Just a theory:)

sickboy79

06-20-2008, 07:56 PM

Interesting read. I know Bob is a good guy, and selects tubes the right way (I can only assume here based on what I've heard - I have not bought from him). But, that said - I've had enough bad luck with JJ tubes - except the EL84s - that most of my business goes elsewhere. Mainly NOS from Mike at KCA. I'm not saying I don't like JJ tubes at all. There are some I do like - but, I haven't had good luck with them. My opinions have nothing to do with Bob and Eurotubes.com. My 2 cents, FWIW.

mbetter

06-20-2008, 08:34 PM

I also enjoy those particular tubes.

This message was brought to you by the good folks at Carl's Jr, home of the Six Dollar Burger.

Red Planet

06-20-2008, 08:47 PM

Gasp100

06-20-2008, 09:01 PM

I don't think I can completely rely on any tubes 100% anymore. I've had a matched quad of JJ EL84's and two were bunk (and cost me MAJOR time and effort trying to troubleshoot). I had a Fender type amp and ran through 6 different flavors of 6v6's until I settled on a Tung-Sol; not because it sounded better, but because it didn't rattle as bad as all of the others.
But I don't blame, JJ or other tube manufacturers - it's the nature of the beast.
Although, my Dario Miniwatt ef86 from Mike at KCANOS sounds and works perfectly and everyone knows the ef86's are the biggest PITA made.
No problems with my AxeFx though.... :roll

Blue Strat

06-20-2008, 09:03 PM

I really love the JJ Tubes myself.

If you want JJ's you need to get them from Bob.

You shoudlnt buy them from New Sensor and others like them and then wonder why they dont work. Its a conflict of interest for them to work.

So, you're saying that JJ only ships the good ones to Bob and sends the rejects to other distributors? Interesting conspiracy theory. Wish I had thought of that :D

bosstone

06-20-2008, 09:17 PM

So, you're saying that JJ only ships the good ones to Bob and sends the rejects to other distributors? Interesting conspiracy theory. Wish I had thought of that :D

The guy doesn't post here, uses a totally conciliatory and reasonable tone any you have to give him a jab? Based on what he said, how he said it and my personal experiences with JJs etc, I would give what he says some consideration.

zzmoore

06-20-2008, 09:25 PM

Blue Strat

06-20-2008, 09:30 PM

Originally Posted by Red Planet http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=4315036#post4315036)
I really love the JJ Tubes myself.

If you want JJ's you need to get them from Bob.

You shoudlnt buy them from New Sensor and others like them and then wonder why they dont work. Its a conflict of interest for them to work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Strat http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=4315091#post4315091)
So, you're saying that JJ only ships the good ones to Bob and sends the rejects to other distributors? Interesting conspiracy theory. Wish I had thought of that :D

The guy doesn't post here, uses a totally conciliatory and reasonable tone any you have to give him a jab? Based on what he said, how he said it and my personal experiences with JJs etc, I would give what he says some consideration.

My comment was directed, using a totally humorous tone, to the guy who said that Bob was the only supplier who could possibly sell JJ tubes that work. ;) If it's a jab at anyone, it's JJ (based on Red Planets theory). Bob is not JJ last I heard (or maybe he is...)

Austinrocks

06-20-2008, 09:36 PM

Just bought some JJ tubes from euro tubes today, 6v6s for my HRDx, really looking forward to seeing how much they improve my tone, I have Mesa 6v6s in my Mark IV and the improvement was very dramatic.

Kelly

06-20-2008, 09:45 PM

Isnt Bob that guy that goes on and on about how great Peavey 5150s are? Heh...

pir8matt

06-20-2008, 09:49 PM

I got a set of JJ 6V6'es from Eurotubes for a HRDV conversion. The PI tube was crapped out - the amp barely worked with it in, and then one other preamp tubes blew 2 days later. Bob remarked that it was akin to winning the lottery getting two bad tubes in one batch like that, but he replaced both at no cost to me, which I was pretty impressed with. He also wanted the 'bad' tubes sent back to him, which I obliged.

All in all a good person to do business with. My local amp builder uses JJ's exclusively as well, and they've always worked well for him.

RussB

06-20-2008, 10:19 PM

EuroBob is a good guy, and a tube fanatic. He's a stand up retailer.

Are JJ tubes all that and a bag of chips? Me thinks not.

Sonic Emergence

06-20-2008, 10:22 PM

I have alwasy bought JJs from Bob.. I even bent and broke off a pin putting some in.. He sent me a new one at no charge..

Dave_C

06-20-2008, 10:39 PM

I have recently fallen in love with the high gain JJ-ECC83s from Doug's Tubes. Have always loved the JJ EL84s from GT...#6 specifically. It's good stuff.

:AOK

* velcro-fly *

06-20-2008, 10:49 PM

Bob's local. Bob will always take care of me. I'll seek out Bob when I need something besides NOS stuff.

bluntage

06-20-2008, 11:02 PM

I recently retubed my Orange RV50 with JJs bought through Eurotubes and have had a great experience with both the tubes and the service! I'd also like to give a shout out to Eddie since he answered all of my questions and filled my order with a quickness! Great product imho.

teleman55

06-21-2008, 12:32 AM

Bob & Eurotubes are great. Yeah they sell a brand so it's like going into a Ford store where Ford is king. That said, if I was forced at gunpoint to use only new tubes in my amps and pick only one manufacturer to supply them, it would be JJ. I especially like their long plate 12ax7 (ecc803), and their el84s.

mbetter

06-21-2008, 01:13 AM

Teahead

06-21-2008, 02:15 AM

EuroBob is a good guy, and a tube fanatic. He's a stand up retailer.

Are JJ tubes all that and a bag of chips? Me thinks not.

+1, Bob's a great guy to deal with and doesn't rape us international customers to ship European tubes back to us!

tubeboy76

06-21-2008, 02:34 AM

I sold JJ tubes for the last 5 years and only had one return in that time. I have been doing tube amp repairs, mods, and upgrades for over 10 years. I use JJ's in almost all my amp upgrades (unless the customer requests otherwise) because NOS is becoming less and less cost effective and the quality of the ones that are left is not getting any better. JJ Electronics puts a lot of time and thought into their tubes and their quality control. Those people I know that have had problems with JJ tubes were using unmatched power tubes or buying them from retailers that claimed they were matched when they weren't. I'll put my money and my tone on JJ any day.

mailman

06-21-2008, 04:06 AM

Re-fitted & re-biased my THD Flexi with JJ KT-77's from Bob's Eurotubes and have been very satisfied with their quality and service...so much so, I ordered an additional pair.:)

Dr. Tweedbucket

06-21-2008, 04:35 AM

I've dealt with Bob and he's spent time talking amps on the phone with me. The guy is passionate about amps, tubes and tone. I purchase loads of JJs over the years and everything I've ever purchased from him has been excellent. :) I've never had a single JJ drop out on me or sound crappy ( other than a pair of GT branded JJs for some weird reason which I got elsewhere ).

Really the only tubes I've had trouble with were a couple sets of thin sounding GTs and lots of probs with Sovteks shorting out, losing vacuum, and sounding like crap. :messedup

5E3

06-21-2008, 05:50 AM

I've had no problems with JJs and Eurotubes has treated me very well :AOK

harryjmic

06-21-2008, 06:36 AM

Here's my .02$ on the subject.

Of the tubes I've bought or tried I honestly think their pre-amp tubes need a lot of work when comparing to NOS. I recently purchased a ef86 based on Bob's recommendation and feel like I wasted $27 as it was worse then any of the NOS ef86's I have laying around.

Regarding their EL84, 6V6, 5AR4 tubes I think these are pretty nice, especially the EL84's.

Bob's running a business, of course his products are going to be better then everything else, he'd be a fool to say otherwise. I am glad he was able to get a company off the ground, now all they need to do is make a 12ax7 as good as an old RCA and I'll be totally happy.

frankencat

06-21-2008, 06:55 AM

LaXu

06-21-2008, 07:03 AM

I've never dealt with Eurotubes but I must say that JJs work great in some amps and not so well in others. I've never liked the ECC83S in V1 on any amp and the ECC803S I just don't seem to like in any position, to me it sounds somehow weird and wrong. JJ poweramp tubes are nice though.

Flameout12

06-21-2008, 07:04 AM

I like Bob and Eurotubes and he has always treated me right over the years, good deals too. I am not a big fan of JJ preamp tubes but their power tubes are excellent. I wish they made better sounding/more robust preamp tubes.
+1
I like bright pre-amp tubes...currently using Chinese...they work well in my amp (SD18) and suprised me that I liked them better than JJs, TSols, EHs, GTs and a few others I have in my pile.
The cool thing about preamp tubes is they are not that expensive.

es125luv

06-21-2008, 07:12 AM

I really like the car dealership analogy. Of coarse the dealer that only sells Fords is going to tell you Ford is the best. You should know you would hear this from them, and really, you have to WANT a Ford before you go there!

Anyway, I have had good customer service from Bob, but I too feel that the preamp tubes are a little bland for my liking.

I only wish Bob would put notices out from time to time like:

"Warning, we have found that the pin spacing on some batches of our rectifier tube were wrong. We are not selling those right now until we get correct batches" ... or some of the recent findings on the 12AX7A Myles posted.

But I do feel that their EL84 is really the best current production EL84 out there.

Brian Scherzer

06-21-2008, 08:25 AM

I'm sorry, but this thread needs to go to the Manufacturer's and Retailers discussion area.

deeval

06-21-2008, 10:12 AM

JJ KT-77 are good tubes!!!:jo

Scott Auld

06-21-2008, 11:25 AM

Now that this thread is in the right place, I will say that my AC30CC is full of JJ's from Bob.

Eurotubes understands specific amps and their specific needs, even if I don't.

When I told them that the tubes I was ordering was for an AC30CC, he started the tech talk and said that "AC30CC plate voltage blah blah blah OEM stock sovtek EL84's blah blah out of range blah blah." (that's what I have in my notes from the call). Something about AC30s needing a specific, cooler EL84 for optimal tone, and that I had to "be sure to put a balanced tube in the phase inverter slot (V3)."

I did not know about any of this stuff, but Eurotubes did, and they taught me what was what. At least, they taught me enough so that I could install the correct tube into V3, and how to take apart the back panel so that I could see which socket was labeled V3 on the board in the first place.

They only thing they were wrong about was that they warned me that AC30CC speakers are hardwired, and need to be unsoldered first, but VOX does not do that anymore, thank goodness. The speaker wire connects to the chassis via a 1/4" jack now, easy to disconnect them.

Would another tube retailer have been as helpful? Possibly. The important thing here is that Eurotubes WAS that helpful, even with a tube dummy like me.

They have always been very helpful over the phone and they ship quickly. And the amp sounds great. JJ's from ET gets my vote.

Red Planet

06-21-2008, 02:53 PM

So, you're saying that JJ only ships the good ones to Bob and sends the rejects to other distributors? Interesting conspiracy theory. Wish I had thought of that :D

Thats not what I said at all. :)

I said you should not by JJ's from a company that is building a competative product. Its a conflict of interest.

It would be like buying your new Ford from a Chevy dealer. It's common sense.

And to add to that Bob certainly gets the Cream of the Crop as far as JJ's go.

Every JJ I have purchased from Bob has been good. I have seen more than one instance where folks have purchased these tubes from NS and have had great numbers of bad tubes.

Lucidology

06-21-2008, 03:55 PM

I'm sorry, but this thread needs to go to the Manufacturer's and Retailers discussion area.

No apologies .... should be where it should be

(I rarely if ever come to this section ... looks like I've been missing out ..:) )

The Pup

06-21-2008, 06:59 PM

I have had good results with JJ tubes...Bob's a good dude, with a bit of used car salesman flare.

...like gold plated pins:

I recently bought another small box 50w it had the gold pin KT77 kit...I've since swapped the tubes around in a few of my amps and they are no different to my ears that regular JJs. It's equivalent to gold-plating a turd...makes no difference in tone at all.

Follow your signal path from your pickup to your speaker terminal...no gold at all. So why would introducing an angstrom's worth of gold plating on a tube pin make any difference.

Bob at Eurotubes claims the gold pin JJ tube variants are made to a tighter standard and are smoother sounding. I say that the gold plating has nothing to do with it. The use of gold or tighter production standards do not directly relate to "smoothness" either.

There is something to be said about reducing the galvanic response of two dissimilar metals and a common dielectric (corrosion), but I don't have any corrosion problems with my tube pins or sockets.

I thought the KT77 had good antiseptic clarity and thump...quite ballsy...but not for me.

michael.e

06-22-2008, 02:28 AM

Wow, after reading all of the posts here, I guess the moral of the story is to go with Blue Strat and his tubes instead of wasting the money on Bob..

Emee

michael patrick

06-22-2008, 04:12 AM

I'm not a big user of JJ tubes or Eurotubes. But Bob gets props for having a lot of useful information on his site (like the how-to biasing vids).

boogieplaya

06-22-2008, 04:41 AM

I think Eurotubes customer service is top notch. I also REALLY like their power tubes. I've tried E34l's, 6v6's, 6l6's, and el84's. All of them were excellent sounding. The pre amp tubes are not the "toniest" i've ever tried, but they are very sturdy, and i've yet to have one prematurely crap-out. For most of my v1-v2 positions, i prefer other manufacturers 12ax7's.

Scumback Speakers

06-22-2008, 07:05 AM

I've bought tubes from Bob @ Eurotubes with no complaints. I had one bad out of the box years ago, I called him, he replaced it for free, sent it to me Priority Mail, also no charge. He didn't ask me to send it back, I feel in part to we've talked on the phone several times and I own a tube tester.

But I certainly would recommend (and have) Bob over other JJ suppliers.

Mickey_C

06-22-2008, 01:55 PM

Since this is in the manufacturer's forum: If any of these tube-sellers mentioned have a wholesale division - let me know!

I buy either JJ 803S or EH12AX7 from CE Distributing here in phoenix (the wholesale division of Antique Electronics). I have a triplett 3444 lab analyzer I check all my tubes in - and I occasionally get a bad JJ - not too often - I toss it in a reject pile and they accept them back without grief. I researched into having the Saratov plant make me a run of tubes - and all the information I had through the broker of that deal was it would require ordering a HUGE number of tubes (well over a thousand pieces).

I'd love to get tubes from one of these boutique tube pickers, but they don't offer wholesale pricing that I know of. And the downside of CE is they won't carry the new production Tung Sol 12AX7 (which are closer to NOS quality than either of those), or the Saratov KT66 which is excellent too.

If any of you do sell wholesale, please send me a PM.

Red Planet

06-22-2008, 02:16 PM

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 05:33 AM

Thats not what I said at all. :)

I said you should not by JJ's from a company that is building a competative product. Its a conflict of interest.

It would be like buying your new Ford from a Chevy dealer. It's common sense.

And to add to that Bob certainly gets the Cream of the Crop as far as JJ's go.

OK, so you ARE saying that Bob gets the good ones and other distributors aren't:D Wouldn't that be illegal? Oh yeah, I forgot, we're dealing with an East Euro company where nothing is illegal;)

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 05:36 AM

If any of you do sell wholesale, please send me a PM.

You have to deal with the company/manufacturer directly. It's hard to sell at wholesale when you PAY wholesale;)

If you do buy wholesale from the companies, realize that what you'll receive are untested units. You "gets" what you pay for.

Mickey_C

06-23-2008, 10:29 AM

You have to deal with the company/manufacturer directly. It's hard to sell at wholesale when you PAY wholesale;)

If you do buy wholesale from the companies, realize that what you'll receive are untested units. You "gets" what you pay for.

Based upon that, I would guess that the plant in russia that makes the EH/Tung Sol does a bit better testing on the ones that go into the Tung Sol boxes versus the ones that go in the EH boxes - maybe the Tung Sol are first picks? The JJ factory must not do very much testing at all; buying them wholesale has been a painful process (though the Triplett 3444 is a decent lab tester). Out of the box wholesale, my luck is better with Tung Sol than other brands. But in comparison to JJ, I have even worse wholesale luck with the EI - enough so that I stopped using them (as those tubes couldn't be returned).

I am surprised none you tube-gurus haven't just coordinated with the factory for a new brand with more stringent criteria.

Some KCA branded tubes would be cool!

-- I haven't checked with Groove Tubes but all this talk has made me wonder if maybe they DO have a wholesale division for tubes for all these sources.

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 10:40 AM

Based upon that, I would guess that the plant in russia that makes the EH/Tung Sol does a bit better testing on the ones that go into the Tung Sol boxes versus the ones that go in the EH boxes - maybe the Tung Sol are first picks? The JJ factory must not do very much testing at all; buying them wholesale has been a painful process (though the Triplett 3444 is a decent lab tester). Out of the box wholesale, my luck is better with Tung Sol than other brands. But in comparison to JJ, I have even worse wholesale luck with the EI - enough so that I stopped using them (as those tubes couldn't be returned).

I am surprised none you tube-gurus haven't just coordinated with the factory for a new brand with more stringent criteria.

Some KCA branded tubes would be cool!

-- I haven't checked with Groove Tubes but all this talk has made me wonder if maybe they DO have a wholesale division for tubes for all these sources.

Trust me, the Tung Sols aren't tested at the factory either. They have a significant reject rate. EH's actually have fewer rejects.

Coordinating with the factory would mean nothing more than what we're doing now. Testing what comes in and rejecting the rejects.

GT sells to distributors but you won't like their prices on their relabled tubes. That's why I don't carry them.

Mickey_C

06-23-2008, 11:17 AM

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 11:24 AM

I only assumed they're made in the same factory based upon the size of the glass and stamping of the glass on the bottom. Internally, the tubes appear different, and of course they sound different too. I would be really surprised if these aren't made in the same factory.

My wholesale sources of EH and Tung Sol measure differently on rejects. Maybe they do some testing themselves? Doesn't seem likely at < $10 per tube.

I didn't say they weren't made in the same factory, they are as far as I know. They're different tubes though.

No wholesaler tests these. They only time you get tested tubes wholesale is if you order matched pairs of power tubes.

Mickey_C

06-23-2008, 11:31 AM

No wholesaler tests these. They only time you get tested tubes wholesale is if you order matched pairs of power tubes.

That includes CE and Mojo? I assume there's 1st level and 2nd level wholesale.

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 12:15 PM

That includes CE and Mojo? I assume there's 1st level and 2nd level wholesale.

You can ask them but I'm 99% certain that they don't.

Mickey_C

06-23-2008, 12:54 PM

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 12:59 PM

Somebody needs to design and build better factory testing equipment for these EU/Russian companies then. That's where I think the real genius in NOS tubes was - strong QA in the factory (which of course, with feedback from the QA team, increases the quality of the tubes coming off the floor). Large quantity modern testing fixtures with automated testing and analysis reports combined with a strong QA process could make a good Russian factory reach NOS or better quality levels.

Too bad Alan Douglas (or one of you other Tube Guru types) doesn't get into the consultant business, reap a fortune, and help us all get better tubes!

If today's manufacturers were interested in doing this they would have already done it. The problem with modern tubes is more materials and overall low quality. Weeding out the worst of them is merely polishing a turd and most retail dealers (except for general purpose musical suppliers) are already doing this for them FOR FREE.

The best testing new tubes still aren't very good and there seems to be no incentive to improve overall quality. They make more money selling replacements a lot more often.

This stuff has been debated and theorized about countless times in the Amp and Cabs forum. Try a search there.

Mickey_C

06-23-2008, 01:46 PM

I think the current tube quality is a reflection of those who have no financial interest to fix it; companies who make money from lousy tube factory QA by playing middle man to the consumer. That's fundamentally broken, and a poor system for the consumer, a situation that could only happen with products manufactured overseas. It's a pain for manufacturers using tubes as well - which also harms the consumer.

Tube factories could improve the tubes in numerous ways by implementing stronger QA procedures; substantially more improvement than merely polishing a turd. They could learn to trace each device failure to specific manufacturing processes and develop analysis instrumentation to improve it, improving defect containment, for example. The same processes can be applied to improving the sound quality, or any other attribute of the tube. That's how it is done.

The lack of strong QA engineering process was endemic to nearly all Russian manufacturing infrastructure - and has fallen further since the soviet meltdown. The actual reason NOS tubes were better was all about engineering process and nothing else. There is no magic missing equipment, or materials, or secret sauce. The only thing missing are the engineers who were doing the testing, developing the data, and thereby determining the measurements on the factory floors, which improved the products. All of which was abysmally poor in the USSR, but could be corrected now - if there wasn't an industry that capitalizes on it remaining so. Companies like New Sensor who are just raping the consumer, IMHO.

I better shut up now before I earn some more bad-kharma points. No offense intended to anyone present of course - just venting at a damnable situation and the acceptance of it.

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 01:59 PM

The other things missing ARE quality materials and people in the factory with experience in producing quality tubes. Unless you're ready to take this on and get 80+ year old US or Western Euro engineers to get back in, don't expect anything to change.

Oh, and the biggest thing missing is a large enough market to make a project like this interesting enough to people who enough money to make it happen.

Good luck.

Mickey_C

06-23-2008, 02:25 PM

Oh, and the biggest thing missing is a large enough market to make a project like this interesting enough to people who enough money to make it happen.

Good luck.

How many millions of dollars are world wide tube sales? I think the numbers would justify them investing in improving the product.

I've been reading about the sophistication of modern meth manufacturers, with testing and measurement, automated processing - all happening in an illegal cottage industry! Let's send them all to Russia!

;-)

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 03:20 PM

How many millions of dollars are world wide tube sales? I think the numbers would justify them investing in improving the product.

I've been reading about the sophistication of modern meth manufacturers, with testing and measurement, automated processing - all happening in an illegal cottage industry! Let's send them all to Russia!

;-)

Your argument has been stated over and over by people who have neither the funds nor the knowhow. Nothing has changed or is it likely to.

VacuumVoodoo

06-23-2008, 03:31 PM

The lack of strong QA engineering process was endemic to nearly all Russian manufacturing infrastructure - and has fallen further since the soviet meltdown. The actual reason NOS tubes were better was all about engineering process and nothing else. There is no magic missing equipment, or materials, or secret sauce. The only thing missing are the engineers who were doing the testing, developing the data, and thereby determining the measurements on the factory floors, which improved the products. All of which was abysmally poor in the USSR, but could be corrected now - if there wasn't an industry that capitalizes on it remaining so. Companies like New Sensor who are just raping the consumer, IMHO.

The USSR. You need to make a distinction between civilian and military manufacturing there. These were two different worlds. USSR made mil or SQ tubes (EB sufix) were top notch. Why? Courtesy of the then in force rewards and punishment system. You screwed up anywhere in mil plant you were sent on a long vacation in very cold climate far north-east, all expenses paid including 300 grams of bread per day. You screw up today all you lose is a low paying job.(which can be disaster in itself) So, yes NOS tubes Made in USRR are good stuff, unfortunately nowadays too many showing up are relabeled new production fakes.
There are still quantities of USSR mil tubes to be found in Eastern Europe, you need to know a secret handshake or two.

daddyo

06-23-2008, 03:50 PM

Wow, after reading all of the posts here, I guess the moral of the story is to go with Blue Strat and his tubes instead of wasting the money on Bob..

Emee
How could you possibly draw that conclusion? I have bought about a dozen tubes from Eurotobes for various Traynor, Trace Elliot, and Reeves amps, and a combination of Ressiue Tung Sol and NOS Mullards from KCA for my DRRI. I've had excellant dealings with both sellers. So far in 5 years, I've had one JJ 12AX7 start to make a crackling noise in my Velocette ( a fairly unfriendly environment for a 12AX7.) Not bad for a thin glass bubble filled with tinfoil and spider sh*t. I'm super happy with the tubes from both guys.

Mickey_C

06-23-2008, 04:53 PM

Your argument has been stated over and over by people who have neither the funds nor the knowhow. Nothing has changed or is it likely to.

I agree that it's about money, but disagree regarding the know-how; they don't need to be taught how to build tubes, they only need to learn to apply thoroughly modern understandings of quality engineering to their existing manufacturing and product life-cycles. That engineering process will turn them into the modern equivalents of those 80 year old retirees. That's how it works, and the principles have been applied throughout history, from the pyramids to the parthenon, from vacuum tubes to lunar landings. Experts are made from it, not born into it. Engineering is, after all, a process, not wizardry.

When the only nay-sayers I hear on this topic are making money as middle-men in a severely broken system I take their defense of the status quo with a large grain of salt.

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 05:30 PM

I agree that it's about money, but disagree regarding the know-how; they don't need to be taught how to build tubes, they only need to learn to apply thoroughly modern understandings of quality engineering to their existing manufacturing and product life-cycles. That engineering process will turn them into the modern equivalents of those 80 year old retirees. That's how it works, and the principles have been applied throughout history, from the pyramids to the parthenon, from vacuum tubes to lunar landings. Experts are made from it, not born into it. Engineering is, after all, a process, not wizardry.

When the only nay-sayers I hear on this topic are making money as middle-men in a severely broken system I take their defense of the status quo with a large grain of salt.

Thanks for the entertainment.

Let me know when your first production run is ready;)

Mickey_C

06-23-2008, 05:48 PM

Yeah, sorry, I did get carried away - that came out a little harsher than I intended. Apologies offered. The volcano has exploded and I feel better now.

;)

I am just a frustrated buyer. Not frustrated enough to put my money where my mouth is though, you are right about that. I don't wanna pay for tube testing retail, and I am living the dream baby, living the dream (said while placing another junk JJ on the pile).

:D

When I hit that powerball win I may get Aleks to teach me the secret handshake and risk my life in Russia seeking a better KT66 for all mankind.

Red Planet

06-23-2008, 09:30 PM

Trust me, the Tung Sols aren't tested at the factory either. They have a significant reject rate. EH's actually have fewer rejects. They're NOT the same tubes no matter what some clowns on the board think.

Coordinating with the factory would mean nothing more than what we're doing now. Testing what comes in and rejecting the rejects.

GT sells to distributors but you won't like their prices on their relabled tubes. That's why I don't carry them.

Lord Valve admitted right here on TGP that those tubes are identicle except for the getter.

If you are calling me a clown that is against TGP rules. Care to clarify?

You can easily disagree without ugly name calling.

Blue Strat

06-23-2008, 09:42 PM

Red, are you sure you're not in show business? You never fail to entertain:D

Trillium Amps

06-23-2008, 10:15 PM

We've found JJs to be very consistent, sound great, and a fantastic product. I recommend them.

teleamp

06-23-2008, 11:16 PM

We've found JJs to be very consistent, sound great, and a fantastic product. I recommend them.

Very cool amps Jason.

Trillium Amps

06-24-2008, 07:45 AM

Very cool amps Jason.

Thanks buddy!

scottl

06-27-2008, 09:39 AM

In all of my amps, NOS stuff sounds more 3D and more harmonic than the JJ ECC83. Those are actually pretty good (mine came stock in my Bludotones courtesy of Fat Willie who supplies the manufacturer). So they were well tested. In the end, the NOS kicked booty. I am using various Seimens Sonotone relabels, a Bugle Boy, a Mullard, RFT, and various USA NOS like RCA and GE depending on slot. I have used the ECC83 for years and have about 15 of them. Although none of my amps have any installed as I find the NOS tones to be better.

I dislike the JJ 6L6GC as compared to the new Tung Sol STR or Winged C. The JJ KT77 is pretty good for its unique sound. But, the QC on the tube pins sucks and they were so loose they sould fall out of the amp if I did not have spring retainers!!! They admitted the issue btw. I have 3 sets btw.

The JJ ECC803s that I have, 3 of them, are all bad. Microphonic and one has some weird squeel. A think I prefer them slightly to the ECC83 if in perfect working order though.

I have dealt with Bob at Eurotubes and never had any issues. Seems like one of the good guys albeit if not a little tunnel visioned on that his brand is better than all the other new stuff out there.

Red Planet

06-27-2008, 01:26 PM

Very fair assesment Scott.

I do feel that the JJ's as a whole are better than anything else currently being produced.
I do like the Winged C 6L6 better than the JJ but for all the others I like the JJ's.

I like the JJ EL34's, E34L's more than the Winged C EL34's but that is just more my tonal tastes. The JJ 6V6's, EL84's, KT77's, ECC83's, ECC803's, ECC81's I just absolutely love. These Tubes of the ones I have gotten from Bob I have had Zero failures. On the JJ Tubes that I have gotten through New Sensor I have had ABOUT A 50 % failure rate. Why is that?

On all the tubes I have used thet were made in the Sovtek/New Sensor/Reflektor Factroy (you know all the diiferent brands) some of these I really like the tones of but none of them have lasted very long for me.

I really like the Tones out of the EH 12AX7's but they dont last very long at all. I also like having the Tonal range available of the Tung Sol reissue but those havent lasted either. Maybe it's just bad luck or I'm really tuff on tubes I dont know. I do have a freaking bunch of em though.

For all the bad rap the EI preamp tubes got around here I have a bunch of them that have yet to fail. While having these other Tubes that have gone bad right out of the box.

I guess it comes down to who is doing the testing. I have had guys tell me a tube is bad and it not be. Or tell me a tube is noisy and should be replaced, stick it in another slot and it be fine (tube rolling).

There is no doubt that NOS is better but that is getting fewer and further between.

Whatever results you may have if it's working for you thats whats important. Smoke em if you got em.

Structo

06-27-2008, 02:11 PM

I've dealt with Bob a few times.
I'm fairly new to modern tube amps.
I'm 51 years old and had a few tube amps in my younger years but didn't learn how to work on them until a few years back. So when they blew, I got rid of them.....

So it was much easier to get a dependable SS amp during the 80's.
But now I have three tube amps and can't believe the difference in feel, tone and overall just more girth to the sound.
Bob sells JJ's so that is what he will recommend.
Sure NOS tubes can be superior in reliability and tone but guess what?
They don't make 'em anymore.

So that leaves us with new production tubes.
From my reading, JJ Electronics seems to be one of the few companies that actively does research and development and builds new facilities to manufacture tubes.
Kudos to them!
There can't be that huge of a market for tubes anymore. Guitar amps and high end audio amps.
I don't even think Russia uses them much in the military anymore although they did well into the 90's.

I actually like the Winged=C= 6L6GC tubes over the JJ's.
But from a reliability stand point, I haven't had a JJ tube fail and have had TAD (short), Tungsol and EH tubes fail prematurely.
I really liked the tone of the TAD 6L6-STR pair I had but, one of them redplated after about 10 hours of use. Kind of scary when a power tube shorts out like that so I won't repeat that mistake although maybe it was a fluke.
But I had heard of others having the same exact thing happen.

BTW, the only advantage to having gold on things is it's anti corrosion properties so it maintains a good contact. As gold is not the best conductor but when applied a few microns thick, it is a good contact for a conductor.

scottl

06-27-2008, 06:50 PM

Fwiw, my Bludotone non-HRM 80s circuit amp uses Music Man trannies. 700V onthe tubes!! The new Tung Sol STR is in there and handles the 700V no problem. Since then I have loaded them in my Bludo Bluesmaster and my Brownnote Blue Monkey 88. No issues. No redplates.

It takes a stout well built 6L6 to take the abuse of the 700V tranny! (screens run at 350V for those who are curious)

I have had various TAD shortbottles flash and fail on me, in normal fender style iron amps. One even melted a hole in the glass! I won't run them anymore. Tonally, great bottom but inarticulate darker top. All in all, the STR, Winged C, and my NOS Phillips 7581 sound better. More chime with no harshness.

johnny q

06-27-2008, 07:57 PM

I don't suppose it could have anything to do with the fact that Bob is an expatriot of Slovakia and possible preferential treatment he gets on pricing?

Just a theory:)

I'm with you Mike.

The sentiments in the letter are sweet and all, but every JJ Tube I have ever had has been utter crap in both tone and reliability. YMMV, but me no likey......

Blue Strat

06-27-2008, 08:46 PM

Fwiw, my Bludotone non-HRM 80s circuit amp uses Music Man trannies. 700V onthe tubes!! The new Tung Sol STR is in there and handles the 700V no problem. Since then I have loaded them in my Bludo Bluesmaster and my Brownnote Blue Monkey 88. No issues. No redplates.

It takes a stout well built 6L6 to take the abuse of the 700V tranny! (screens run at 350V for those who are curious)

Good point. I think the screen voltage is often the problem for tubes that WE THINK have problems with high plate voltage. In 99% of all guitar amps, the screen voltage is virtually identical to the plate voltage. MM did it right.

michael.e

06-29-2008, 12:17 AM

How could you possibly draw that conclusion? I have bought about a dozen tubes from Eurotobes for various Traynor, Trace Elliot, and Reeves amps, and a combination of Ressiue Tung Sol and NOS Mullards from KCA for my DRRI. I've had excellant dealings with both sellers. So far in 5 years, I've had one JJ 12AX7 start to make a crackling noise in my Velocette ( a fairly unfriendly environment for a 12AX7.) Not bad for a thin glass bubble filled with tinfoil and spider sh*t. I'm super happy with the tubes from both guys.
I am being quite facetious...

Emee

Groovey Records

06-29-2008, 01:01 AM

Hi Lucid,

Your guy seems square and very comfortable to work with

:eek:I used to buy NOS tubes from Mike K. Happily Paid $400 a pair for great tubes.

Now because he is such a nice guy I'm letting him get the rest he deserves.:D

I've heard great things about the JJ's and it's Tempting to try them out in one of my new old Fenders, I'll probably stay NOS though.

When I retube my Allen Accomplice I'll give JJ's a shot.

This is my guy now for NOS I can't think of anyone better.

Slow as Mollasses though, obsessive testing, fair prices and what maybe the world largest NOS collection keeps him very busy.

Works best by phone Real Old School

Andy at Vintage Tube Services

http://vintagetubeservices.com/

Dave_C

08-12-2008, 03:48 PM

I've tried almost every modern manufacture preamp and power amp tube made today and, honestly, I tend to use whatever sounds best in each particular amp. However, there are definitely some patterns. For example, I have not found a modern production EL84 that is as predictable and reliable or better-sounding in my EL84 amps than the GT-graded JJ EL84s. I find the hardness rating allows me to fine tune the feel and response of these amps, which might not be as easy otherwise, especially in cathode-biased situations. And, I tend to buy these from my friend who owns a music store and deals in GT products.

For some amps, I dig the Tung Sol 12AX7s and always get those from Doug's Tubes. For other amps, it's the high gain JJ-ECC83S, which I also get from Doug. But, recently, I found an amp that absolutely loves the JJ ECC803S above all others, which I had originally purchased from Doug. But, I liked this tube/amp combo so much that I wanted to try the Gold Pin version of the '803S and Doug doesn't sell them, so I bought a set from Euro-Tubes. So, far, my interaction with them has been pleasant. They sent me a courtesy email thanking me for the purchase and it seems they got on the order right away. We'll see what more the Gold Pin has to offer in short order.

I do the same kind of mix-n-match for power tubes. All depends on the amp and who carries what. I first look to Doug. If he doesn't carry it or it's a GT product, I go to my local buddy. If neither of those sources work out, then it's out to other distributors to see what I can find.

Bottom line is, JJ provides solutions in certain circumstances that aren't available from any other source. Same with Euro-Tubes. I couldn't find amy reasonably-priced JJ-ECC803S Gold Pin anywhere else, so ET was the answer...and, given their close relationship with the factory, perhaps that was the best choice.

Bruce Bennett

08-12-2008, 09:20 PM

in all honesty, I only read two pages before I got sick enough to post.

I'm not believeing what I'm reading, most of the disenting posters in the first two pages really have a totally incorrect idea about tubes, how they work and why they sound or do not sound good/bad..and most importantly why any dealer might choose one brand over another..

I remember how tings worked back in the 60s and 70s and I can say without reservations that finding a great sounding tube was a genuine crapshoot most of the time.

I remember the guys from RCA calling up and saying "hey we just pulled a batch ( 100,000 to a batch) from the ovens and these are reading above spec!, how many would you like?"

that was truly something to be excited about. because most tubes come out at an average or maybe below average spec but still quite serviceable. and no one would consider trashing a batch of 100K tubes just because they were a bit off spec..

I 've seen black plate RCAs that truly sucked and of course the reverse as well, The average was on the better side for that particular model, but it was not EVERY single tube..

and of course if you have( had) lots of different tube batches coming out from many different companies. then you were bound to get several great batches at any given time..

This IS one of the reasons that electronics manufacturers wanted to get away from useing tubes.. because inconstistancy of the tubes themselves was a very serious issue.

thats one of the reasons why tube audiophiles have been known to purchase a large box of tubes and then sit down over a weekend to test them in their gear and find the best sounding ones, cull them out and sell off the rest to places "like" antique electronic supply who then sells them as NOS.

there. the secret is out of the bag.

Bad G.A.S.

08-12-2008, 09:54 PM

G&L Player

08-16-2008, 09:43 AM

Structo

08-16-2008, 10:13 AM

Hmmm, a lot of sour grapes here.
I have done business with Bob on several occassions.
It may sound far fetched but I have never gotten a bad tube from him.

He ships fast and stands behind his product at a reasonable price point.
Of course he likes JJ's, that's what he sells.
You guys didn't realy expect him to say these tubes are unreliable or a crap shoot did you?

If you want JJ tubes, he is the man.

Bruce Bennett

08-18-2008, 08:42 AM

Bruce, I would assume that in our modern era, the tubes that are manufactured now are of a much more even consistency due to technological advances. I'm not trying to criticize...Just throwing a guess out there...

you would think so. but that is actually incorrect. the methods used to MAKE the tubes is just about as bad as it ever was.. not that it was all THAT bad to begin with..but inconsitency between batches is just a given in the tube world.. there are an aweful lot of things that must happen just right to build a run tubes.. and many times there may be very tiny changes that will occur during that run, that can affect the output quality of the final product.. many of this type things I'm refering to are still well inside the "tolerence range" of the tubes' "build specs" and thats a very hard thing for lots of folks to grasp.

that said,

The methods used to MATCH or SELECT tubes is WAY BETTER than it ever was. Thanks a great deal to Aspen Pittman and his Groove Tubes idea. he set the bar and it took many years for others to catch up. but most have gotten close now.

so maybe that will shed some better light on the issue.

Bruce Bennett

08-18-2008, 08:57 AM

Any thoughts on current rectifiers? I'm looking for a GZ34/5AR4 for my AST, and am up in the air over spending the bucks for a NOS Mullard. Not an issue if the Mullard is the one to get though, but just wondering what different members experiences have been with the available rectifiers (current tubes are Brimar 6v6s, and Mullard 12AX7ss, RCA 5751 and a Bendix 5Y3 rectifier - thanks Mike for the great tubes).
when it comes to rectifiers their effect on the tone of the amp is limited to two major points..

Voltage and sag times.

other than these two RESIDUAL EFFECTS on the amps circuit,, they really don't have much DIRECT EFFECT on the amps tone..

My critiera is that it have a strong steady voltage output that is within + or - 10 volts of my amps "factory" specs and a slow warm up time. between 20-30 seconds, longer , and it becomes harder to keep the amp "clean" sounding at higher volumes... this usually gives me the right amount of sag for the sound I like to listen for. less warm up time will give the amp an overall "tighter" sound with less sag or compression. at least , thats what has been observed by myself in my own amps.

amigo30

08-18-2008, 11:42 AM

He ships fast and stands behind his product at a reasonable price point.
If you want JJ tubes, he is the man.

My experience with him has been first rate.

He treats his customers like gold, does business ethically, and conducts himself honestly. He ships fast and thanks his clients for their business.

If you like JJ tubes, what's not to like about a business that runs like that?

G&L Player

08-18-2008, 01:03 PM

when it comes to rectifiers their effect on the tone of the amp is limited to two major points..

Voltage and sag times.

other than these two RESIDUAL EFFECTS on the amps circuit,, they really don't have much DIRECT EFFECT on the amps tone..

My critiera is that it have a strong steady voltage output that is within + or - 10 volts of my amps "factory" specs and a slow warm up time. between 20-30 seconds, longer , and it becomes harder to keep the amp "clean" sounding at higher volumes... this usually gives me the right amount of sag for the sound I like to listen for. less warm up time will give the amp an overall "tighter" sound with less sag or compression. at least , thats what has been observed by myself in my own amps.

Understood, I guess I should have been more specific as far as reliability. Any issues with current production tubes?

Bruce Bennett

08-18-2008, 02:17 PM

Understood, I guess I should have been more specific as far as reliability. Any issues with current production tubes?

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see which model tube you were asking about.
I've used the sovtek 5U4 and the Sinos too both seems to be OK as far as reliability. never used the JJs yet

the sovtek GZ34 ( 5AR4) and the Mullard and the tung-sol are really the same tube, the mullards are supposedly tested and hand picked from the batches and then marked "Mullard" ( same with tung-sols)
so hopfully that means they are close in spec to original mullards.. but no one has actually told me that. they just eluded to it.

the JJ's test out strong and steady, and with a good "tightness" to the sound. not too much sag with them so far. depends greatly on what circuit you put them in.

the Winged "C" tubes are about the best for tone reliability and ruggedness. but not everyone agrees with me.. I like certain models better than others. and they are somewhat difficult to get sometimes. not sure why.

all the 5Y3s are pretty good no matter who you get them from, for that reason I buy the tung-sols just for the labels , just becuz it's fun to see that name on them.

G&L Player

08-18-2008, 05:05 PM

Maybe I missed it, but I didn't see which model tube you were asking about.
I've used the sovtek 5U4 and the Sinos too both seems to be OK as far as reliability. never used the JJs yet

the sovtek GZ34 ( 5AR4) and the Mullard and the tung-sol are really the same tube, the mullards are supposedly tested and hand picked from the batches and then marked "Mullard" ( same with tung-sols)
so hopfully that means they are close in spec to original mullards.. but no one has actually told me that. they just eluded to it.

the JJ's test out strong and steady, and with a good "tightness" to the sound. not too much sag with them so far. depends greatly on what circuit you put them in.

the Winged "C" tubes are about the best for tone reliability and ruggedness. but not everyone agrees with me.. I like certain models better than others. and they are somewhat difficult to get sometimes. not sure why.

all the 5Y3s are pretty good no matter who you get them from, for that reason I buy the tung-sols just for the labels , just becuz it's fun to see that name on them.
Thanks Bruce! It was 5AR, and 5Y3 that I was interested in.

otaypanky

08-28-2008, 11:30 PM

I have 8 favorite amps that live with me. Bob has re-tubed them all, and numerous times for most of them. Even as busy as he gets, he has always taken the time to make sure he knows what I'm looking for in tone as best he can, and will sometimes refer back to my previous orders. Of all the many tubes I have purchased from Eurotubes, only one was a problem, it rattled. 2 days later there was a new one in my mailbox, all the way across the country, no charge. My amps have the tone and response that to my ears is just right, so although it could be argued that NOS or a certain modern tube may be better than the JJ version, I just don't feel the need to search it out ~ I'm happy

mmorse

09-04-2008, 04:53 PM

Guess I'll throw in my .02 in. I have had JJ83S, JJ803 and JJ6V6s. Didn't experience any failures when I used them. Can't say that about the first generation GT Mullard ax7s I had. Liked the pres better than Sovteks or EHs. But most of my old Siemens, Tungsrams, EIs (early 80s vintage) sounded better. I had a bunch of old ax7s from my audiophile days.

Love the 6v6s though. Great little tube IMO.

Now I'm down to one tube amp ('83 2204) and it just wants one kind of tube... old Mullards. So now I have enough to last me in both pre and power and I don't even think about tubes anymore.

The Pup

09-04-2008, 08:39 PM

Love the 6v6s though. Great little tube IMO.

Great 6V6...one of the best!

Very robust..like these:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/RCA6L6GC/6v6599246t10.jpg

...these don't sound exactly like your old GE or RCA tubes either.

pir8matt

09-05-2008, 05:47 AM

Great 6V6...one of the best!

Very robust..like these:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a166/RCA6L6GC/6v6599246t10.jpg

...these don't sound exactly like your old GE or RCA tubes either.

I'll bite - what are these?

The Pup

09-05-2008, 09:08 AM

Bendix military spec tubes...great for bomber-bay-door control circuits and somewhere near 10,000 to 15,000 hours of guitar amplifier tube life.

Seditious

09-05-2008, 10:02 AM

I don't buy it. Out of all the different models and types of tubes produces, Bob thinks that the JJ's always sound better that all of the other brands? This seems statistically unlikely.

And suppose Sovtek hits one out of the park the next time around, say they come up with a 12ax7 that sounds identical to the JJ, but for half the price. Is Bob going to start selling those? Is he going to stop pushing the JJ stuff? I doubt it.

The letter in the OP reads as generic, self-serving, marketing drivel. Presenting it as anything else strikes me as incredibly dishonest.

That's not what I read. He wrote that some non-JJ tubes sound very good, but that they aren't consistent. For you to call that dishonest, self-serving, marketing drivel makes it look to me like you have a bone to pick.

I had never heard anything about Eurotubes till this thread, so it's easy to see that some of you are quite jaded. I don't use JJ's and I buy from a guy in Colorado, so this conversation doesn't really affect me. I'll go back to knitting. :knitting

The Pup

09-05-2008, 12:53 PM

That's not what I read. He wrote that some non-JJ tubes sound very good, but that they aren't consistent. For you to call that dishonest, self-serving, marketing drivel makes it look to me like you have a bone to pick.

I had never heard anything about Eurotubes till this thread, so it's easy to see that some of you are quite jaded. I don't use JJ's and I buy from a guy in Colorado, so this conversation doesn't really affect me. I'll go back to knitting. :knitting

Bob would make a great used car salesman...regardless, I have had good results with many JJ tubes.

deeval

06-30-2009, 07:39 AM

I sell Amana Air Cond.and will push that brand as much as I can cause I get great deals which gives me more leeway to give a lower pricing on my bids,I will sell other brands but they cost me more so I have to pass it on to customer!
So I put that in the way dealers push their product so well to sell,and I do like JJ,s in some amps and not in others,and as for service I really like KCA Tubes Mikes a stand up and fair guy.:banana

MartyStrat54

08-07-2009, 07:48 PM

Man - O - Man
It's his company, but this has got to be a PR fiasco if ever I did see one. He listens to all the new offerings, and does not care for them. Kind of hard for me to accept that JJ makes a better tube than any other company, always and always. I don't know, I could be wrong.

I agree 100 per cent. If the only flavor you sell is vanilla, you tell your customers its the only flavor that matters. I deal with NOS tubes. I always have and always will. I've done extensive testing on the JJ 12AX7's and for the most part they are a dark sounding tube. Great in a bright amp, but they just don't sound like a 7025, Raytheon Black Plate, Sylvania Gray Plate and Sylvania Gray Plate. My Marshall never sounded better. Oh and on The Marshall Forum, there has been quite a few postings of JJ pre and power tubes going to crap right out of the box.

I'm not knocking JJ, but to say it is the best is really reaching.

MARTY:dude