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Frankenstrat2
06-24-2008, 02:26 PM
I check into the Playing and Technique Forum regularly, and there seem to usually be a few threads kicking around dealing with various aspects of slide and bottleneck guitar. I thought it would be cool to start a dedicated thread where we could hang out and talk about slide stuff, the gear, the players, technique, all things slide.
There are some really great slide players that hang out on TGP, and I'm hoping everyone will check in and chime in from time to time.
I'll kick it off with this description of what to look for in the slides themselves.
***********
Size- length, width and wall thickness
The length of a slide relates to the players needs in terms of how few or many strings they need to span across the fingerboard. The width of a slide is the total of its interior dimension combined with the thickness of the walls of the slide. Players will find varying comfort depending on the feel of different widths on the finger
Weight- The actual weight of the slide will be influenced by both its size and the mass of the material it is made from. A thin walled metal slide can weigh more than a thick walled pyrex slide, etc. Some players prefer a light slide for dexterity, others demand a heavy slide for more sustain.
Shape- Slides and be closed or open-ended. Dome-tipped or flat edged. They can have rounded or beveled edges. There are slides that have comfort-cut or crescent notches cut to accomodate the pad of the inner palm and web of the finger. There are slides with grooves, notches or flat edges to rest adjacent fingers against. There are straight-walled slides, but also slides that taper slightly or drastically both for fit and feel
Materials. Most commercial or custom slides fall into two general categories- metal or glass.
Metal slides can commonly be made of steel, chrome-plated metal, copper, brass and aluminum. There are gold-plated brass slides.
Glass slides fall into the category of soda-lime (bottle glass), boro-silicate (pyrex) and lead-silicate (lead glass).*
There are also ceramic slides which are fired pottery with an exterior glaze.
A new entry into the slide field is a plastic/lexan type material recently introduced by V-Pick.
Glass slides can be hand blown and fire-polished, or cut from tubes and grind polished. True bottleneck slides are cut from various glass bottle necks
Esthetics-There are hand-blown, custom designed and colored lead glass slides that are signed, dated, and numbered, like individual works of art. There are clear glass slides that are painted and decorated internally both for color and to make them less slippery on sweaty fingers. There is a myriad variety of decorated ceramic slides in colors, patterns, and designs.
Finish, Texture, & Drag- Different materials have different feel on the strings. Besides the weight and mass, texture is very important. Some slides have a porous or rougher surface and exhibit more drag on the strings. Others are silky smooth and glide easily. Its a matter of preference, but each differing shade of smoothness will influence your playing and your tone to some degree.
Cost- A perfectly good bottleneck slide can be made from discarded bottles with a bit of string and some lighter fluid for pennies each. A collectible hand blown lead glass slide can cost $50.

Choices- Perhaps the most important factors in choosing a slide are fit, comfort, and its intended application. A slide should fit the finger nicely being neither too tight, or so loose that it will go flying across the room. If you dont need to span the entire width of the fingerboard for big open tuned chords, you may find that a shorter slide is more user-friendly. As far as application- I would not recommend a heavy, thick-walled slide for electric slide on a guitar with low action and light gauge strings unless you have a lot of slide experience already. If you are mostly an acoustic or resonator player, a thin-walled light weight slide will not produce very big tone.

*Credit to www.diamondbottlenecks.com (http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com) from their F.A.Q. page for the info on the technical names of the types of glass commonly found in bottleneck slides

Diamond
06-24-2008, 02:41 PM
Excellent post Barry ;) - you've written pretty much all the necessary information required for fledgling slide-players to take that scary, initial step into 'the unknown' :BEER

Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com (http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com)

Frankenstrat2
06-24-2008, 02:50 PM
Now, here's where to go get 'em:
The Bottleneck Slide Resource Thread

Kirk Lorange's heavy brass slide
http://planetalk.thatllteachyou.com/slides.html
Diamond Bottlenecks
http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com/
Big Heart Slides
http://www.bigheartslide.com/
The Rock Slide
http://www.marksguitarshop.com/trs/
Nunwells- Go to the link for 'Store'
http://www.mattsmithsworld.com/ (http://www.mattsmithsworld.com/home.html)
Dunlop slides
http://www.jimdunlop.com/products/slides/index.html
Planet Waves Slides
http://www.planetwaves.com/Pgeardetails.aspx?ID=4
Snarling Dogs Spinslide
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...18334?v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007UBMHS/104-9033906-4818334?v=glance)
BlueMoon Bottlenecks
http://www.bluemoonbottleneck.co.uk/Slide_Shop.htm
Gen-U-Wine Bottlenecks
http://www.highroad.org/ericpark/bottlenecks.html
The Real Bottleneck Company
http://www.rbnc.net/
John Pearse 'The Edge" slide
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/the_edge.html
Lap and Pedal Steel bars
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/do-stls.html
Delta Slider Blues Bottleneck
http://emol.org/music/musicians/glombecki/delta.html
Latch Lake Slides
http://www.latchlakemusic.com/products/slideshop.asp
London Resonator Center Slides
http://www.resocentre.com/index.php?id=82,0,0,1,0,0
Old Chicago Slide Company
http://www.nd.edu/~ncarmich/slides.htm (http://www.nd.edu/%7Encarmich/slides.htm)
Bird of Paradise Rotateable Slide
http://www.birdcapo.com/slide_info.html
Moonshine and Mudslides
http://www.moonshineslides.com/
Harris 19mm Brass Slide
http://www.zzounds.com/item--DNP231
Silica Slides
http://silica-sound.com/
Rocky Mountain slides
http://www.rockymountainslides.com/
Blooze Bottle Slides
http://bloozebottle.com/
V-Pick Slides
http://www.v-picks.com/Slides.html
Mr. B's Bottleneck Slides
http://www.mrbsguitarslides.com/

Feel Free to Add More Links
Pix Too!

decay-o-caster
06-24-2008, 03:07 PM
Good Lord, Barry! Very nice work - whatta resource this set of links is alone!

Austinrocks
06-24-2008, 03:09 PM
Finding the "right" slide is very difficult, thay do some things well and impose their limitations to your playing.

1) coricidin bottle slidkes which were used by Duane Allman, nothing else gets that great tone

http://www.rbnc.net/aboutrbnc.html

2) the only slide that gets out of the way that I have found is the Rocket Slide, I think thats its name, can not find it by googling, its ring that fits on the ring finger and has a bar that is pressed against the stings, it does not have a lot of mass, however it is a slide that permit you to use all your finger while not playing slide, don't know why they are so hard to find, I got mine at a guitar back in 86, only seen them a few times after that, its one of my favorite slides.

3) Rock Slides, are metal slides have several of these, they have a cutout for the bend of the finger, and are a favorite especially their pinky slide which is fairly small and prefect for standard tuning, which is what I am now doing, since you only play a limited number of strings this is perfect for that, I prefer their brass slides,

http://www.therockslide.com/new/main.php

4) Will Ray of the hellecasters has a slide called the stealth slide, He sells them at guitar shows that is where I got mine, I have two of them, they are basically rings, that adjust in size, in my fretting hand the slide only covers two or three strings at most, but its a slide that can be worn all the time, I wear mine on my pinky finger, the slide can also be worn on your picking hand, pinky for me again and its backwards, I can get slide effect with my picking hand this way, and that generally what I use these slides for, prefer the rock slide for my fretting hand.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y257/austinrocks/Stealth-Ring.jpg

They are $18 on will rays site

http://www.hellecasters.com/WillRay/WillRay.htm

Austinrocks
06-24-2008, 03:36 PM
What tuning to use is very important, typically Open E tuning which Duane Allman used E B E G# B E is popular, as is Open G tuning which Keith Richards typically uses which is D G D G B D, however I find that standard tuning is the best, since I am in standard tuning most of the time, and I can use a smaller slide when playing which also helps since I like to be able to play chords and riffs as well with my fingers.

some cool alternate tuning sites are

http://eceserv0.ece.wisc.edu/~sethares/alternatetunings/alternatetunings.html

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/WarrenAllen/tunings.htm

for a good book on standard tuning playing Warren Haynes Guide to Slide guitar book and CD are excellent and cheap, $17.

http://www.amazon.com/Warren-Haynes-Guide-Slide-Guitar/dp/1575605244

It is excellent book, I really got a lot out of it, especially the standard tuning stuff.


I started with Arlen Roths Slide Guitar Book and really recommend it for open E and G tunings

http://www.amazon.com/Slide-Guitar-Book-Record-Arlen/dp/0825601622

Frankenstrat2
06-24-2008, 03:43 PM
Good Lord, Barry! Very nice work - whatta resource this set of links is alone!
Thanks!
There's a few dead links I'll go back and correct later. This is a list I put together a while ago for another Forum. Its a work in progress, there are always new guys emerging, like Vinni from V-Picks right here on TGP.
Cool slides, by the way.

RavenMadd
06-24-2008, 04:01 PM
anyone here make or try to make their own slide?

Frankenstrat2
06-24-2008, 04:37 PM
anyone here make or try to make their own slide?
I've made my own bottlenecks from wine bottles with varying degrees of success.
I got interested in 'heavy metal'.....slides, that is, and decided that the commercial stuff was too wimpy and toneless. so I went into my local plumbing supply store and asked the counterman to show me various diameters of unthreaded solid brass pipe. Much to his amusement I started sticking my pinky into the various pipes until I found one that wasn't too loose or too tight- just right! Of course by now I had to explain why i was 'fingering' their pipes. Next I sheepishly inquired what the shortest length was they would cut. The answer was 1 foot. It was not expensive. i took my prize home, got out my dad's hacksaw and made a sloppy cut. But 5 minutes later I had a custom sized-to-fit heavy brass slide. Later I got to a grindstone and fashioned a comfort cut, and beveled the edges. Crudely, but it had MOJO!
if you try this, be sure to have some fine sandpaper handy and a file. You don't want to leave any burrs inside the walls to cut your hands up.
Another tip about brass- it oxidizes rapidly. And the oxidation makes drag on the strings. so you need to keep some Noxon and a polishing cloth handy and keep your brass slide well polished so it slides smoothly.
or, save yourself a ton of trouble and pick up a gold-plated Rock slide with comfort cut. http://www.therockslide.com/new/main.php
Making home-made bottlenecks is an entirely seperate post. Lots of different techniques-some easy, some complex.

Frankenstrat2
06-24-2008, 08:25 PM
How to Make your Own Glass Bottlenecks
From a 2006 Big Road Blues Forum Post
The Cigar Box Guitars web site (www.cigarboxguitars.com (http://www.cigarboxguitars.com/))
is right on. Here are a few tricks I've learned that expand on the info there that might help. First, though I think this should go without saying, WEAR HAND AND EYE PROTECTION!!! Glass breaks and broken glass will cut you. Ever had to play with a cut finger tip? I have and it sucks! A $3 pair of suede gardening gloves will protect your hands so there's no excuse. And unless you want to be the next "Blind Boy [your name here]" keep something unbreakable between the glass and your eyes.
An old blues guy told me he used to cut bottle necks by wrapping lighting a kerosene-soaked string tied around the neck then putting the bottle in cold water. I tried this. It always broke the bottle and never the way I wanted. I can't recommend it unless you need a bottleneck that doubles as a weapon in close combat.
It can be tricky using masking tape to get a perfect circle. The good part is you can keep moving the tape until you get it right. If the sides on the neck of the bottle you are going to cut aren't perfectly flat (most aren't) it helps to use a flexible tape that can be stretched to follow a curve. I've had good luck with blue painter's tape.
If you see a circa 1970's bottle cutter at a flea market, snap it up! The "cradle" style cutter usually doesn't work because the wheel can't reach the neck. The type that goes in the top of the bottle with a cutter on an arm works best for me. I've tried both. If it's been used, expect to replace the cutting wheel. Fortunately the steel wheels are cheap.
Scoring a deep cut with the class cutter isn't necessary. It's more important to have a straight and consistent score. Use less pressure and concentrate on getting an even score rather than a deep one. A friend that makes stained glass windows showed me this one. He makes a very light cut and told me he's cut glass 1" thick that way.
If you are going to tap the glass inside to cause the neck to break along the score, put a drop of kerosene on the score first. This will result in a cleaner break. (Thanks again to my stained glass maker friend.) Be patient! This method works but if you tap too hard the neck won't break the way you want. The problem is that the glass in the neck often isn't consistently thick. When you tap think of it as coaxing the neck to break.
The hot water/cold water trick suggested by Scotty at Cigar Box is excellent but may not work unless you have really hot tap water. Water heater thermostats are sometimes turned down to save energy and/or protect children from scalding hot water (both good things). If you try the hot/cold water thing without luck, that may be the problem.
Heating the bottle with a candle, butane lighter, or propane torch works. The trick is to heat the bottle SLOWLY and EVENLY. (This I learned from a friend that makes glass beads.) Keep the bottle turning and move it slowly closer to the flame. If you heat it too quickly or unevenly the heat will crack the glass and not where you want it.
Don't overheat the bottle! If you do it will crack when you put the neck in cold water. All of it will crack and you'll be left with pieces. If it stays together there will probably be vertical cracks in the glass and the first good bump will turn everything into shards. Heat slowly and evenly and plunge it into cold water when just warm. If the neck doesn't separate easily, dry it off and try again, a little warmer this time. Eventually it will break off easily.
Smoothing the edge:
I use a pair of nippers or side cutters to nip away larger chunks of glass. The trick is to nibble away a little bit at a time rather than hack off large chunks. Get it close with nippers.
To finish the edge, nothing I have tried beats a Dremel tool. I use various grades of stone wheel to get the larger chunks off and to round the edges. Finer wheels will polish it smooth. I use steel wool and emery cloth to polish the edge. (My glass bead making friend showed me how to do all this with a glass torch but it takes a long time and if you aren't very careful with the heat it will break.)
Don't have a Dremel tool? I have also used a knife sharpening stone (whetstone) with very good luck. They aren't expensive (Sears sells a good one) and you can use the corners to grind down the inside edges. Take your time and don't press hard. Let the stone do the work. Once I get a round edge with the stone I use various grades of steel wool to polish the edge.
Bob Brozman (my hero!) used a Mateus wine bottle but I have big hands and never found one that fits. My favorite bottleneck, which I've used for 10 years, is from a Courvoisier Cognac bottle. The big one. The neck is very straight and the glass is thick. It was a bear to cut and shape (I used a whetstone) but it fits perfectly. I have found some French red wine bottles have reasonably straight necks of reasonably consistent thickness. Ask all your friends that drink wine to save bottles like that for you. Promise to recycle the left-over glass too.
Good luck!


And This was another great Post- Same Forum
On cutting bottlenecks:

A tile wet saw.
I've got one because I am a tile and stone contractor so I thought before I give this sage advice I'll go out to the garage and try a couple. Worked 6 out of 7 times clean as a whistle. The one that failed was a thin beer bottle neck that you wouldn't use for slide anyway but the three thickest ones were the easiest and cleanest. Now some of you are probably saying that that's all well and good but you don't have a wet saw. Well every Home Depot does. It's at the end of the tile aisle and it's for weekend warriors to get their more complex cuts done. The one near me lets all the homeowner Joe's make their own cuts so that situation would be easy but if the one near you has the staff do it just slip 'em a 5 spot and off you go. Or have your wife ask 'em that always works. Either way you might have to buy $3 worth of tile put some marks on 'em and pretend you need some cuts done and slip the bottle in at the end. This will work. Home Depot people do not care about things like this.
Water jets and a fast spinning diamond wheel. It's a beautiful thing.

The Entire Thread is Here:
http://www.guitarseminars.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000604.html

Frankenstrat2
06-24-2008, 08:43 PM
Diamond Bottlenecks 'Ultimate' Hand-Blown Lead Glass
http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com/DB08/content/images/gallery/_N0S3132.jpg

Diamond Reversible

http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com/DB08/content/images/gallery/_N0S3104.jpg

Rockslide Gold-Plated Brass

http://www.therockslide.com/new/images/smallslide.jpg

decay-o-caster
06-24-2008, 10:10 PM
Cool tuning alert, and one that I've never seen before anywhere else:

A - C - E - G - B - D, low to high.

For this I'm using the following string gauges, which seem to work:
.044 - .038 - .032 - .024 - .019 - .017.

It consists of stacked thirds (which I've seen), but alternating minor and major, which I haven't. It gives you lots of minor and major chords all over the neck. I'm pretty pleased with it so far, though I only tried it this week for the first time.

Another tuning I have tried with good results is this one (also not seen anywhere else, and I can't quite figure out why not) -

F - B - D - G - B - E, low to high

So the top 4 strings are standard, which is how I mostly play slide anyway. Like standard, it gives you the Em7 on top, but you have a tritone on the bottom that gives you the dominant 7th and the 3rd of the G Major. I think it's cool, anyway.

Diamond
06-25-2008, 07:26 AM
More Slide Porn!!! I've just salivated all over my keyboard!.......thanks Barry:BEER The Guitar Seminars thread posted above by Barry (Frankenstrat2) is probably the definitive thread for folks interested in making their own bottleneck slide - it's been on-going for many years now and every method we know is listed on there....good luck;)

Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com (http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com)

Frankenstrat2
06-25-2008, 10:05 AM
John Boggs had made an excellent post with this exercise to practice muting strings for slide. Very well explained, IMO.

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=4290327&postcount=8

Frankenstrat2
06-25-2008, 10:15 AM
And this page from another TGP thread had some very interesting observations about 'Getting Into Slide' from Steve Kimock and yours truly.
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?t=332984&page=2

Frankenstrat2
06-25-2008, 12:11 PM
Here's some videos to keep you amused:
Ry Cooder- Vigalante Man
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoGkPTjZoBg&feature=related
Jackson Brown & David Lindley-Runnin on Empty
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aoGkPTjZoBg&feature=related
David Lindley Live- Mercury Blues
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAbbgSKUZB4
Johnny Winter- Highway 61 live
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8siLZ4zNbY
Rick Vito-Rattlesnake Shake
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E0XB1KksQg
Sonny Landreth and Arlen Roth-
Blues Attack
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hjec7Zq8kGs&feature=related
Lowell George Little Feat Cold, Cold, Cold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmG8sdaeCYk&feature=related
Derek Trucks Band- Good Morning Little Schoolgirl
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GN5cvrDtv3M&feature=related
Dave hole- I'm A Kingbee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDwuEFgZez8

NitroLiq
06-25-2008, 01:25 PM
Have any of you guys checked out Warren Haynes—Guide to Slide Guitar? I was thinking of picking it up but am wondering if it's just a rehash of the basic slide techniques he goes into on his blues and slide DVD. Anyone know?

On another note, I just moved to a new apt. and going through the boxes I found a really old slide book I bought in the 80s that has a black & white picture of Johnny Winter on the cover and one of those plastic sound sheets (ala old Guitar Player magazines). Pretty interesting...covers lots of open tunings and various artists from Keith Richards to Bukka White. I'll have to mp3 the soundpage when I get my rig set up again.

Frankenstrat2
06-25-2008, 01:53 PM
On another note, I just moved to a new apt. and going through the boxes I found a really old slide book I bought in the 80s that has a black & white picture of Johnny Winter on the cover and one of those plastic sound sheets (ala old Guitar Player magazines). Pretty interesting...covers lots of open tunings and various artists from Keith Richards to Bukka White. I'll have to mp3 the soundpage when I get my rig set up again.
That sounds interesting. I'd love to hear it.
I had Warren's original instructional video. There wasn't much there in technique, IIRC. He was one of my early heroes- got me playing slide in natural tuning. I do hear good things about the new release. Big fan of his slide playing. Since Derek joined the ABB it seems you only hear Warren play slide with Gvt. Mule.

Frankenstrat2
06-25-2008, 02:05 PM
Jack Pearson, anyone?
One of my absolute favorites!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IXGqmq9483c&feature=related

NitroLiq
06-25-2008, 02:07 PM
That sounds interesting. I'd love to hear it.
I had Warren's original instructional video. There wasn't much there in technique, IIRC.
I have the video as well and it's pretty rudimentary stuff. I mean there are still some nice licks to learn from but the slide work is just the very basic. I may give the book ago since it's pretty cheap...it looks like it may be arranged in a similar fashion as the Dave Grissom book, which is pretty good.

Regarding the other book, the soundpage probably has a lot of bleedthrough so the quality isn't going to be totally up to snuff. I think it was mostly open tuning rhythms and things of that nature...nothing really ripping.

Frankenstrat2
06-25-2008, 02:14 PM
How 'bout Kirby Kelly slidin with Bugs Henderson and the Shuffle Kings?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFnxBrOo_AA
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBo7wogfNFE

stratocat63
06-27-2008, 08:37 AM
I haven't tried this but I heard the old way to make a slide from a bottle is to soak some twine with kerosene and tie it around the bottle neck. Light it, then tap the bottle on something and it will break right there.

Frankenstrat2
06-30-2008, 02:54 PM
I haven't tried this but I heard the old way to make a slide from a bottle is to soak some twine with kerosene and tie it around the bottle neck. Light it, then tap the bottle on something and it will break right there.
That is discussed in great detail here:
http://www.guitarseminars.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000604.html

geoff_hartwell
07-06-2008, 07:30 PM
Wow, Barry!

Great web-detective work. This is an incredible amount of stuff for the rest of us slide freaks. Great resources!

Wanted to drop a shameless plug for the upcoming National Guitar Workshop seminar I'm doing with special guest Sonny Landreth in Chicago July 12-17th. Here's a link:

http://www.guitarworkshop.com/locations.php?campus=5

And also a link to my Slide instructional DVD:

http://www.filmbaby.com/films/1910

Patronage of either or both will directly contribute to allowing me to live indoors for a little while longer!
:)
Geoff

Frankenstrat2
07-07-2008, 06:17 AM
Hey Geoff-
Delighted to have you here, my friend.
I'm sorry you don't come down to LI more often.
You still playing through that JC120?

Besides his CD, DVD, and teaching at NGW, Geoff also runs a terrific regular blues jam up in Westchester, NY. Highly recommended!
Do check him out in his various endeavors!

Franklin
07-09-2008, 09:27 AM
I haven't tried this but I heard the old way to make a slide from a bottle is to soak some twine with kerosene and tie it around the bottle neck. Light it, then tap the bottle on something and it will break right there.

I gotta try that! Thanks!

:BEER

stratocat63
07-09-2008, 09:35 AM
I gotta try that! Thanks!

:BEER
:BEER

You need to look at Frankenstrat2's link.

Frankenstrat2
07-09-2008, 09:48 AM
PLEASE! You guys trying to do your own glass bottlenecks-
DO wear gloves. DO wear protective glasses. Protect your eyes and your hands!
Dig?.....
Go back and read this post
http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showpost.php?p=4334298&postcount=10

Franklin
07-09-2008, 10:58 AM
Cool, I saw that. Thanks again Frankenstrat!

pbradt
07-12-2008, 03:08 PM
Mah Buddy! (http://youtube.com/watch?v=CSteBpYQ_mI)

My slide set is as follows:

CIJ ST54 Strat with Hamel Strat pickups

strings .013-.054

Slightly taller nut. Slightly elevated action, the string gauge does the rest.

Dunlop 213 slide. '59 Deluxe clone or '59 Super clone. No pedals most of the time.

Franklin
07-14-2008, 07:41 AM
I usually do not play slide with effects besides a boost pedal or a low gain OD for some compression. Over the weekend I was going to do a hammer on/pull off thing that I do with open strings and went to step on my beano and accidentaly turned on my delay, the delay added some pretty sweet slapback on top of what I was doing and it sounded pretty wild! I'll have to do some experimenting with this technique and the delay pedal. Judging by the crowd response they thought it was pretty cool too. I'll have to review the audio to see how it sounded.

I always wanted to run a stereo panning pedal with the slide, two amps set up on either side of the stage and pan between the two while playing slide -it sounds like it would add some actual "movement" to the longer slides. Anyone ever do this?

Frankenstrat2
07-14-2008, 01:36 PM
I always wanted to run a stereo panning pedal with the slide, two amps set up on either side of the stage and pan between the two while playing slide -it sounds like it would add some actual "movement" to the longer slides. Anyone ever do this?
I never tried it exactly the way you describe, but it sounds like a great idea. I hope you try it out and let us know. At the times that I used to run a 3 amp wet/dry/wet rig I also used an old Lexicon Alex delay that had a nice ping pong delay setting. That sounded awesome in true stereo with a nice spread. My stereo chorus also sounded amazing with that rig.
It just hasn't been practical or desirable to haul that rig out of the studio to the small clubs I play. Its intimidating enough to show up with a fancy pedal board and a boo-tique amp.
But there are some things on the horizon soon that may make it much more affordable and easier to haul a wet/dry rig to smaller venues.
Meanwhile, if you have it in your head to play slide AND think about panning a certain riff across the sound stage in stereo- let 'er rip bro!
CLIPS!

Franklin
07-14-2008, 02:23 PM
No way Frankenstrat! I quit carrying two amps 5 years ago. I don't make enough money to haul around two amps, it was too tiring. The only pan pedal at the time was way too expensive. Ernie Ball has one now for < $200, so maybe some day....

:)

Frankenstrat2
07-15-2008, 04:01 AM
I don't own a delay pedal, but I think slide sounds nice with a really old school slap-back delay.

There some really interesting effects created if you've got delay, reverb and a dirty sound with a slide, because as you slide up to the note, it all kind of falls over onto itself!

That pretty much describes my current setup for slide-a touch of reverb, but hardly noticable, plenty of compressed overdrive, most of it coming from my amp, and just enough delay to fatten everything up. You don't really hear the delay as a slapback, its more like a double-tracking effect. When you are doing singing slide it just makes it more present.

Newton
07-18-2008, 08:03 AM
Watch this one!

http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=RYj1JFhJ_A4

9fingers
07-19-2008, 10:39 AM
Slide can sound really vocal-like with some tasty wah (hardly anyone does it but it can be really cool).

dspblues
07-23-2008, 04:00 PM
Good instructional material here: http://www.learningguitarnow.com/slide-guitar-lessons-dvds.shtml

decay-o-caster
07-23-2008, 05:06 PM
A shout-out to Ian at Diamond Bottleneck! I've been in touch for about 3-4 weeks, ordered a bar (then another) for my lap steel, now working on a slide from him, and he's just been funny and helpful and responsive to every question and request. The experience of ordering from Diamond is worth the price of admission - the bars and slides are just icing! :)

Diamond
07-26-2008, 03:53 AM
:AOK Mercurial thanks David.....and i've just e-mailed you on your latest aquisitions:)..

Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com (http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com):AOK

Frankenstrat2
07-26-2008, 04:56 AM
A shout-out to Ian at Diamond Bottleneck! I've been in touch for about 3-4 weeks, ordered a bar (then another) for my lap steel, now working on a slide from him, and he's just been funny and helpful and responsive to every question and request. The experience of ordering from Diamond is worth the price of admission - the bars and slides are just icing! :)
David-I'm glad you discovered Diamond. As you can see from my sig line, I've been an advocate for some time now. You'll be very happy with your slides.

Ian- I just gifted one of my Diamond custom slides to a good friend in Nashville. Hopefully it will be like planting a seed and it will take root.

trisonic
07-26-2008, 10:52 AM
Barry,
Is the consensus to use the slide on the third finger or little finger (or will you just flip me one)?
I'm toying with the idea of using my old Zion with Joe Bardens for slide - how much should the action be raised (or should I get a higher nut) and decompensate the bridge???
Makes a change to see a thread with real info in. Many thanks, mate.

Best, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
07-26-2008, 12:01 PM
Barry,
Is the consensus to use the slide on the third finger or little finger (or will you just flip me one)?
I'm toying with the idea of using my old Zion with Joe Bardens for slide - how much should the action be raised (or should I get a higher nut) and decompensate the bridge???
Makes a change to see a thread with real info in. Many thanks, mate.

Best, Pete.
Hey Pete!
That guitar sounds like a great candidate for a mean slide machine!
When I give slide seminars, my first rule is " There are no rules".
Do what feels good and natural for you. Most slide players are self-taught and they end up using whatever finger they started with. As with most things, its terribly difficult to unlearn things once you have become accustomed to them.
For those that have never played slide before, and have no preference, conventional wisdom advises the slide on the pinky. This allows the most flexibility/possibilities/dexterity to fret chords and apply fingering/damping behind/in addition to the slide.
But many fine slide players use the ring, middle and some even use the index finger. If that's what works/feels good, sounds good, then don't fight it or try too hard to unlearn it.

Action and set-up is another controversial slide topic, and again- there are no rules- To find out what works best for you, experiment!
To share my experience- I had picked up the slide and put it down in frustration many, many times until I finally got to the point where I could stand to listen to myself. I think in the very beginning its helpful to raise the action a bit so you don't fret out the slide or hear quite so much rattle and buzz from the slide. The thinner strings are most likely to surrender to the weight of the slide and fret out. My slide teacher had recommended putting 14's on for the high E string (even on electrics!) I've been playing 52-11s for so many years now that they feel like light gauge to me now. Its a good compromise. Even so, I'm starting to move most of my guitars down to 48-10s now. Its taken a long time for me to get that kind of control over the slide. If you are going to set up a guitar dedicated to slide, and you haven't played much slide, the idea of a much heavier string on the high E is a pretty good one as long as you don't expect to be attempting any Albert King 3 step pulls.
Again, I think the primary goal in the beginning is to get a clean slide tone where the notes don't fret out against the neck or rattle. High action and heavier strings are just part of the equation. Also the weight and composition of the slide will effect the way the notes sing (or die).
Finally, picking and damping technique will play a huge role in your success or frustration levels in achieving tone you are happy with.
The best advice in all departments is just keep at it, experiment, and stick with what works for you.
Slide on!

decay-o-caster
07-26-2008, 01:27 PM
Pete - One thing Bill has done for me on the last couple of slide-candidate guitars was to cut the nut flatter than the normal radius you'd expect - the Lowell and the fretless both have nearly flat nuts, fer instance. You might find a repair shop that'll cut your guitar a new nut with a flatter radius, which makes it easier not to fret out on the first string.

I play pretty happily on a normal action, normally strung guitar, so that is an option - you don't have to string up a guitar with cables to make it work if you put some effort into developing a light touch, especially if you use a light glass slide (the coriciden bottles, for example). Not saying this is the only right answer, but I'm throwing it out as a thing to consider. But yes, a heavy action does make it easier to concentrate on notes rather than tone production in the beginning.

Frankenstrat2
07-26-2008, 03:19 PM
I guess fingerboard radius and custom nuts, etc are issues that never seemed that critical to me. I suppose if you are doing a lot of chord work it might be helpful.

trisonic
07-27-2008, 04:18 AM
"developing a light touch" and "trisonic" are two concepts that will never meet, I'm afraid...........

Barry gave me some tips and a great DVD some time ago (my wife has filed it away somewhere). My problem with slide is ghastly (fetch the butler, darling) extraneous noises and bouncing off the frets etc., etc. You name it I've experienced it.

The reason I'm going to convert the Zion is that it is from the late eighties with a very flat fingerboard (as was the fashion) and yet despite it's dinky body has the basic accoutrements of a standard Strat (3 Sc's) but just one volume and one tone.

If I can start with getting less technique noise then I think I would feel happier.

Please keep this thread going!

Best, Pete.

phatster
07-27-2008, 06:59 AM
Given my multiple aborted attempts to make this happen...I appreciate your energy and knowledgeable approach.I will try again thanks to these well meant posts!!! Slide-On

9fingers
07-27-2008, 07:39 AM
Time- just keep doing it. The touch will come. Really, it will! Then the fun begins!

decay-o-caster
07-27-2008, 10:09 AM
"developing a light touch" and "trisonic" are two concepts that will never meet, I'm afraid............

I hear ya, Pete! I think you and I went to the same guitar school! :)

Check out the Geoff Hartwell DVD - he's the one I learned slide technique from, and if he can get me to play with a decent touch, you should have no issues at all. He plays standard tuning, normally strung guitar (10s, low-medium action right from the Hamer factory). So that's mostly what I do, though I finally discovered the fun of open E last week at NGW. I'd tried it before, but it never "stuck", so I mostly play in standard. But now the fretless is in open E and it's a gas!

Chris Rice
07-27-2008, 10:29 AM
My favorite slide is a Martin. Chrome plated brass with a few cutouts.
Tried it on whim after using dozens of others, brass, steel, chromed brass and steel, copper, glass, plexiglass, thickwall, thinwall, heavy, light, on and on...
The Martin feels and sounds right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/wildricechris/IMG_3119.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/wildricechris/IMG_3120.jpg

And the reason that taking pictures of a slide is so damn difficult:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/wildricechris/IMG_3121.jpg

decay-o-caster
07-27-2008, 10:41 AM
my Favorite Slide Is A Martin. Chrome Plated Brass With A Few Cutouts....
And The Reason That Taking Pictures Of A Slide Is So Damn Difficult:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/wildricechris/img_3121.jpg

:) :)

trisonic
07-27-2008, 10:44 AM
My favorite slide is a Martin. Chrome plated brass with a few cutouts.
Tried it on whim after using dozens of others, brass, steel, chromed brass and steel, copper, glass, plexiglass, thickwall, thinwall, heavy, light, on and on...
The Martin feels and sounds right.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/wildricechris/IMG_3119.jpg


What's the idea of the bevelled end?
(typical noob question, I guess).
Best, Pete.

Chris Rice
07-27-2008, 11:04 AM
I didn't pay attention to the beveled end at first, but after playing with it for years I grab that with my second finger (slide on the third) when I want behind the slide sounds. Gives me a good grip.

My Martin looks just like the Rockslide..

trisonic
07-27-2008, 03:41 PM
Chris, Is that Martin as in Martin Guitars?

Best, Pete.

Chris Rice
07-27-2008, 04:23 PM
Yep.

Diamond
07-28-2008, 03:52 AM
Hey Barry - thanks mate...your continuing support is very much appreciated:BEER Keep up the good work my friend!


....er - do the 'Rockslide' guys know about this Martin equivalent:hide????


Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com (http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com)

Chris Rice
07-28-2008, 05:37 AM
They look identical, I wouldn't be surprised if Rockslide is making them for Martin.
I've never heard of Rockslide before this thread.

Diamond
07-28-2008, 06:07 AM
Hi Chris,

Yeah - they are indentical in looks & sizings :AOK The reason for my posting was that Mark Morse of 'Rockslide' actually purchased the U.S. patent for the 'cutout' (...or comfort-cut; notch-cut; 'V'-cut etc...) on all slide-related products, therefore if Martin are producing a 'notch-cut' slide without Mark's license - they'll be in trouble:worried

Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com (http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com)

bluesmain
07-28-2008, 06:30 AM
Great resource post! Thanks bro!


:banana


Now, here's where to go get 'em:
The Bottleneck Slide Resource Thread

Kirk Lorange's heavy brass slide
http://planetalk.thatllteachyou.com/slides.html
Diamond Bottlenecks
http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com/
Big Heart Slides
http://www.bigheartslide.com/
The Rock Slide
http://www.marksguitarshop.com/trs/
Nunwells- Go to the link for 'Store'
http://www.mattsmithsworld.com/ (http://www.mattsmithsworld.com/home.html)
Dunlop slides
http://www.jimdunlop.com/products/slides/index.html
Planet Waves Slides
http://www.planetwaves.com/Pgeardetails.aspx?ID=4
Snarling Dogs Spinslide
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...18334?v=glance (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0007UBMHS/104-9033906-4818334?v=glance)
BlueMoon Bottlenecks
http://www.bluemoonbottleneck.co.uk/Slide_Shop.htm
Gen-U-Wine Bottlenecks
http://www.highroad.org/ericpark/bottlenecks.html
The Real Bottleneck Company
http://www.rbnc.net/
John Pearse 'The Edge" slide
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/the_edge.html
Lap and Pedal Steel bars
http://www.janetdavismusic.com/do-stls.html
Delta Slider Blues Bottleneck
http://emol.org/music/musicians/glombecki/delta.html
Latch Lake Slides
http://www.latchlakemusic.com/products/slideshop.asp
London Resonator Center Slides
http://www.resocentre.com/index.php?id=82,0,0,1,0,0
Old Chicago Slide Company
http://www.nd.edu/~ncarmich/slides.htm (http://www.nd.edu/%7Encarmich/slides.htm)
Bird of Paradise Rotateable Slide
http://www.birdcapo.com/slide_info.html
Moonshine and Mudslides
http://www.moonshineslides.com/
Harris 19mm Brass Slide
http://www.zzounds.com/item--DNP231
Silica Slides
http://silica-sound.com/
Rocky Mountain slides
http://www.rockymountainslides.com/
Blooze Bottle Slides
http://bloozebottle.com/
V-Pick Slides
http://www.v-picks.com/Slides.html
Mr. B's Bottleneck Slides
http://www.mrbsguitarslides.com/

Feel Free to Add More Links
Pix Too!

Frankenstrat2
07-28-2008, 07:10 AM
Hi Chris,

Yeah - they are indentical in looks & sizings :AOK The reason for my posting was that Mark Morse of 'Rockslide' actually purchased the U.S. patent for the 'cutout' (...or comfort-cut; notch-cut; 'V'-cut etc...) on all slide-related products, therefore if Martin are producing a 'notch-cut' slide without Mark's license - they'll be in trouble:worried

Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com (http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com)

Since I gather from Chris Rice that he has owned that Martin slide a long time, I wonder if originally Mark was selling them through Martin as an OEM.
That picture is of the Rockslide, or else a dead-nuts copy.
I don't think Martin is still in the slide business, but Rockslide is. I prefer their gold-plated version, which doesn't tarnish as quickly as brass, so there is very little string drag from the slide.
The angled cut on the top outside edge is to rest the tip on the adjacent finger against for leverage and steadiness. It works, too.
The Rockslide is an extremely well engineered and well-finished product. It is my favorite metal slide.

Frankenstrat2
07-28-2008, 07:41 AM
"developing a light touch" and "trisonic" are two concepts that will never meet, I'm afraid...........
(snip)
If I can start with getting less technique noise then I think I would feel happier.

I favor a heavy slide, heavy strings, higher action, but I've been doing this quite a while now. None are required. Everything is a trade-off in some respects.
The heavy slides give a fat sustaining tone, but the weight makes it more difficult to manage them delicately until your fingers build up the strength and subtlety to manage the slide effectively. I have a feeling that the players that prefer pyrex and coricidin bottles are using lighter strings, lower action, and probably higher gain and compression, either from the amp or pedals to compensate. Sonny Landreth (a pyrex slide guy) admits having a serious addiction to compression pedals, and gainy amps (Dumble, Demeter).
For you beginner guys, or those trying to get back in the game, I suggest trying one of Vinni's V-slides. It's a super light composite material similar to Lexan. Very easy to manage, and super quiet on the strings. It doesn't sustain like metal or glass, but with a bit of compression or gain from a pedal or amp, you may be much happier with the results on a guitar with lighter strings. The best part is they are very inexpensive slides, and Vinni is a TGPer and great to work with.
http://www.v-picks.com/Slides.html

Diamond
07-28-2008, 09:28 AM
You're probably correct about Martin being the original supplier of this slide Barry, recruiting Mark as the original engineer / supplier, and then Mark taking over the product from Martin to create the 'Rockslide' company at a later date...it's all good :AOK.

And i'll add a 'second' here to Barry's excellent recommendation of the 'V-Slide' for folks just starting up on the slide-trail! I have two in my possession, and for electric sliders who prefer light-gauge strings & low action, they're great!


Slide On!

Ian.

www.diamondbottlenecks.com (http://www.diamondbottlenecks.com)

trisonic
07-28-2008, 02:03 PM
I can tell you that the Martin site has absolutely no mention of that slide anywhere..............
Barry, I ordered a Large and a Regular from Vinni today, one would fit my little finger the other my ring - hey I like the opportunity of trying anything both ways!:crazyguy

I'm determined this time to actually do something about my "slide" playing.

Thanks again for taking the time to provide all the resource contacts for this thread, really appreciated. Now I need the dreaded Dumble........

Best, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
07-28-2008, 02:34 PM
Now I need the dreaded Dumble.........
Oh Pete......everyone agrees you can get that tone with a pedal or two.....

Frankenstrat2
07-28-2008, 06:01 PM
There's a thread on Lowell George and someone posted this great concert clip
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmG8sdaeCYk&eurl
Check out his solo around 4:00, and pretty great camera work showing his right hand technique. LG was the best! Dripping southern soul and funk.

trisonic
07-29-2008, 03:36 PM
That's great, Baz!
Note also his work with the volume knob on his guitar. Busy, baby.

Best, Pete.

trisonic
08-02-2008, 05:22 AM
I just got the two V-Pick slides from Vinni.
Take my comments with a pinch of salt 'cos I'm a noob at this but they seem to be a lot more forgiving in terms of extraneous noise which seem to make them a good choice for a beginner like me.
They are somewhat thick walled compared to a metal slide which does have consequences because they force my hand to an angle that makes behind the slide muting seem awkward - however I'm sure that with a bit of muscle training (i.e. practice , what's that?) that particular issue will disappear.

Best, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
08-02-2008, 05:37 AM
Aye Mate
They are quieter. Lighter too. Not as thick walled as you might think, compared to heavy brass or my hand-blown lead crystal ones.
A great beginner slide. Now you will be training new muscle groups and it does feel awkward at first.
Kirby Kelly taught me to think of the fingers behind the slide as a 'paddle'.
Let them rest together, gently over all the strings, and allow them to glide with you behind the slide movement. Keep reminding yourself to 'keep your paddle down'. There is very little pressure involved- just resting and gliding the paddle is enough to dampen behind the slide resonance. Concentrate on the intonation of the picked slide notes. Go for clean, articulated notes that are in tune.
Keep your paddle down. Relax. Breathe. Repeat.

decay-o-caster
08-02-2008, 09:52 AM
Aye Mate
They are quieter. Lighter too...

Keep your paddle down. Relax. Breathe. Repeat.

Listen to what's coming out. Get depressed. Drink heavily. Repeat.

Couldn't play for leftover $h!t last night. :mad:

:(

But the Diamond Bottleneck slide that just arrived was great!

trisonic
08-02-2008, 10:00 AM
Listen to what's coming out. Get depressed. Drink heavily. Repeat.

Couldn't play for leftover $h!t last night. :mad:

:(

But the Diamond Bottleneck slide that just arrived was great!

Last time I tried this I had one of those glass slides with a flat sealed bottom it was pretty.
One day it disappeared until I found it in the kitchen with a single Lavender sprig stuck in it. My Wife thought it was a miniature vase...........

Best, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
08-02-2008, 10:22 AM
Yes. those closed-end bottleneck slides double nicely as shot glasses too. i met a guy at NAMM who was glass blowing custom slides and giving away matching shot glasses with a significant purchase (yes, I got one)
Slide guitar being the inaccurate skill-set that it is seems to blend rather well with booze anyway. I'm not sure about cultivating cuttings however, but I suppose botany has its place in rock history as well.
"The smoker I drink, the player I get"- Joe Walsh

trisonic
08-02-2008, 11:14 AM
I fully expect Vinni to produce shot glasses soon!

Here's Lowell George and Mick Taylor (playing slide), Enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRSDzG5oOgc

Thanks to Matte for finding this.....

Best, Pete.

jimfog
08-02-2008, 02:00 PM
I use the Dunlop 215, exclusively.........so I guess that's Pyrex........but don't use much (if any) gain and use a pretty stiff action. I definitely compromise my standard playing for the sake of sliding.

For me, I use the 215 because of the FIT and size........and I really prefer the sound. I've played a ton of the boutique $$$ offerings, and while I like real glass, they never seem to get the size right for me. I think some folks like the slide to be looser and flop around on their fingers more than I do. Mine isn't wedding ring tight, but I prefer no slop..........much better for my intonation.

Of course, I also play standard tuning a lot, so I need to be more precise than some, maybe.

I guess it's really whatever you get used to........

Frankenstrat2
08-03-2008, 09:36 AM
I use the Dunlop 215, exclusively.........so I guess that's Pyrex........but don't use much (if any) gain and use a pretty stiff action. I definitely compromise my standard playing for the sake of sliding.

For me, I use the 215 because of the FIT and size........and I really prefer the sound. I've played a ton of the boutique $$$ offerings, and while I like real glass, they never seem to get the size right for me. I think some folks like the slide to be looser and flop around on their fingers more than I do. Mine isn't wedding ring tight, but I prefer no slop..........much better for my intonation.

Of course, I also play standard tuning a lot, so I need to be more precise than some, maybe.

I guess it's really whatever you get used to........
I keep stressing the same thing- whatever you're used to or whatever works for you.
Those Dunlop pyrex slides are very popular with many players, and they are so....available. There's a lot to be said for low price and easy replacement.

Frankenstrat2
08-03-2008, 10:00 AM
How a Slide Fits is something we haven't discussed much up to now, and I think its important.
A lot of playing slide has to do with feeling comfortable with it. In the beginning it is awkward, and there is a lot of adjustment to be made. As with any gear accessory whether its the gauge of strings, or pick, or length of the strap, the main goal is to be comfortable with your choices. Ultimately I think we strive to forget about all that stuff and just get into the zen of playing. Anything that is a distraction is no good.
Warren Haynes talked about a particular slide that he's using now because its painted on the inside and therefore doesn't slip off, because sometimes his finger sweats. You really don't want to be thinking about a sweaty finger, or watch your slide go rolling across the stage because it fell off.
I took a dozen of my slides to a seminar and let everyone try them. I had brass, pyrex, lead crystal, coricidin bottles, you name it- in lots of sizes.
I told them to choose the finger they thought they would use for slide, and slip a slide on. It shouldn't be so tight that there was pressure or a vacuum, but if you dropped your hand to your side, the slide should stay put-you almost need the other hand to get it off, but it still should feel comfortable. To me, that is a slide that really fits.
That may not be important to other people, and that's okay with me- remember- there are no rules- just what works for you. Coricidin bottles almost never fit tight, and they can get sweaty too. Any closed end slide can get a bit humid. Many players dig them anyway. Its all good if it works for you.
Getting a slide that fits right is a challenge. Its not like getting a ring sized at a jeweler- it is not an exact science, and there is no universal standard.
Some manufacturers label them as small, medium, large, extra large- but there is no consistency from brand to brand. Some package them in shrink wrap and you can't try them until you get them home. That's not too bright. My friend Luther at Big Heart came up with a package design where the hole that the package hangs from on the display is also the finger size, so you can put the potential digit in the hole to check fit. That works pretty well. At least if its a manufactured slide and you know that a medium is your size in a Dunlop, its easy to get the next one to fit the same.
For me, nothing beats finding a drawer or display counter in a store stocked with dozens of slides where you can stand there like a pervert and stick the offending finger into each and every slide, sorting out just the ones that feel good and look cool from the ones that don't. This process is particularly fun and critical if, like me, you're into colorful, one-of-a-kind hand-blown stuff as a kind of side-hobby.
In my experience there are only a handful of shops that offer that opportunity. Mandolin Bros. in Staten Island NY and McCabes Guitar Shop in Santa Monica are two such places. Austin Guitars used to have a slide drawer, and I think there are some shops in Nashville. The winter NAMM Show is always a treat when I can get there because there are usually a few slide makers who put stuff out, let you try them, and will actually take cash and let you walk away with your acquisition.
Failing that- if you are on the hunt for a slide that is truly custom-fitted, the options are there, and its probably more convenient than seeking out the few existing shops with a decent selection. It's not hard or expensive to establish a mail-order relationship with slide makers. After all, compared to what we spend on strings, cables and straps, slides are a long-lasting affordable guilty pleasure. This is where knowing people like Ian at Diamond Bottlenecks, or Luther at Big Heart Slides becomes an invaluable asset. I know there are others, so if you know some slide makers, this is the place to discuss them. I've sent Luther and Ian some of my favorite slides and asked them to make some for me in my favorite materials and colors. The advantage of sending them a slide that already fits is that there is no mistaking the size. An experienced slide maker can take measurements, and turn out a slide that feels exactly right.
Again- this is not critical for some folks, but others want that slide to feel perfect, and going from one slide to another, each should be equally comfortable. It just depends on how fussy you are, and whether or not you think its fun to have a whole bunch of killer slides.
Over the years I've given away many slides to my friends. Its kind of neat to pass them on, and watch the hobby grow exponentially. I know that certain slides that I've gotten have special meaning to me, and that ones I've given as gifts carry those feelings with them too. So if in your travels you accumulate some slides that don't work perfectly for you, they may just be waiting for you to meet someone for whom it will be a perfect fit.
:dude

trisonic
08-03-2008, 10:29 AM
Thanks, Barry, good info. I believe John Reynolds at Golden Age, Westfield, NJ has a rack of loose slides too (I just remembered, I hope I'm right).

I'm still figuring whether to use my ring or pinky - and have heard the arguments for both, I flip/flop whenever I pick the Strat up.
Is there a consensus on this?
I know that the pinky makes it easier for me to mute behind the slide (and chords) but the ring just feels better to me, more natural.

Anyone that thinks playing slide is the easy option must be mad!!!!


Best, Pete.

decay-o-caster
08-03-2008, 10:44 AM
Pete - I think there's more agony in learning slide than any other kind of guitar playing, but maybe that's just me. Sometimes it just comes naturally, then you get cocky, pick up the guitar, and you sound like the cat dragging something in. I'm grateful to Hawkeye and the band he's putting together for letting me at least try it out on some songs, because as much agony as there is in it for me, it's gotta be worse for them on those occasions when nothing sounds right!

Frankenstrat2
08-03-2008, 11:00 AM
Pete - I think there's more agony in learning slide than any other kind of guitar playing, but maybe that's just me. Sometimes it just comes naturally, then you get cocky, pick up the guitar, and you sound like the cat dragging something in. I'm grateful to Hawkeye and the band he's putting together for letting me at least try it out on some songs, because as much agony as there is in it for me, it's gotta be worse for them on those occasions when nothing sounds right!
My wife is a saint for letting me even take up the slide. Many nights of 'sick cats in heat' and she still will complain about Duane sounding sour whenever they play Layla on the radio!
I picked up the slide with ambition and put it down with disgust many times in my life. It was years before I got to the point where I could stand to listen to myself play slide. The initial learning curve is the most difficult skill-set to get past. If you keep at it, and get to the point where you sound even half-way decent (in tune with reasonable intonation) you have already surpassed the thousands of players who tried and quit.
When you hone those skills, you then possess an ability many others will admire and few possess. Its similar to being a magician. They understand how the tricks are accomplished, and the public doesn't. Its skill and practice, not magic.

trisonic
08-03-2008, 04:41 PM
You two are right in that everything acheived in my life, giving me the most satisfaction involved hard work of some kind or other........I'm taking up the Violin after this.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Best, Pete.

johnwtuggle
08-04-2008, 07:06 AM
You're right. Slide guitar can take a while to get the hang of. I drove my parents nuts when I was a kid. I used to improvise over Allman Brothers, Jimi Hendrix, and Black Crowes with the slide. Pretty horrible.

My dad used to ask me what was wrong with me!

Chris Rice
08-04-2008, 07:34 AM
Here's the packaging for the Martin.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/wildricechris/IMG_3304.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/wildricechris/IMG_3305.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v328/wildricechris/IMG_3306.jpg

I let my friend (that I got these slides from) know that the Rockslide is identical. She told me that she can't get the Martins anymore, all of her suppliers stopped carrying them. Now we may know why.

Frankenstrat2
08-04-2008, 09:47 AM
My dad used to ask me what was wrong with me!

You were guitarded!

johnwtuggle
08-04-2008, 05:43 PM
That's good! :D

Jason Lynn
08-06-2008, 01:37 PM
How many of you guys play lap steel? For me that's what really opened it all up for me. I still love playing bottle neck but the sound of a lap steel can not be captured playing bottleneck style, IMHO. I started taking my lap out to blues jams and it pretty much forced me to learn how to play it in very creative ways. Good times.

Interesting read through here. For me slide has been an evolving process for years. I remember starting out using slide on my "F" you finger...then moving down to ring...and now on to my pinky. I also remember playing exclusively in standard tuning and scratching my head on how to play lead lines in open tunings.

For those of you starting out I highly recommend you consider devoting a guitar for slide and leaving that in an open tuning. Preferably open E. It's a great one to start..all of your root notes are where you'd expect on the low string and once you have E under your belt go ahead and tune down to Open G. It took me a while to grasp this but all the licks you learn in E will work in G just move them all up one string (a lick in open E on 6th and 5th string works in G on 5th and 4th...etc)

As far as slides go...I agree, there are no rules. Slides are impulse buys for me because they are so cheap. I collect em...I like them all...big, small, tight loose, metal, ceramic, etc.. They are kind of like amps..they all illicit their own character to your tone.

Frankenstrat2
08-07-2008, 03:51 AM
How many of you guys play lap steel? For me that's what really opened it all up for me. I still love playing bottle neck but the sound of a lap steel can not be captured playing bottleneck style, IMHO. I started taking my lap out to blues jams and it pretty much forced me to learn how to play it in very creative ways. Good times.

Interesting read through here. For me slide has been an evolving process for years. I remember starting out using slide on my "F" you finger...then moving down to ring...and now on to my pinky. I also remember playing exclusively in standard tuning and scratching my head on how to play lead lines in open tunings.

For those of you starting out I highly recommend you consider devoting a guitar for slide and leaving that in an open tuning. Preferably open E. It's a great one to start..all of your root notes are where you'd expect on the low string and once you have E under your belt go ahead and tune down to Open G. It took me a while to grasp this but all the licks you learn in E will work in G just move them all up one string (a lick in open E on 6th and 5th string works in G on 5th and 4th...etc)

As far as slides go...I agree, there are no rules. Slides are impulse buys for me because they are so cheap. I collect em...I like them all...big, small, tight loose, metal, ceramic, etc.. They are kind of like amps..they all illicit their own character to your tone.
Saw the Line6 sig- Are you J-Bird?

Frankenstrat2
08-07-2008, 06:43 AM
But its almost, or perhaps worthy of its own dedicated 'Official''' thread.
While it shares a lot with its bottleneck brethren. There are also some radical departures in gear, tunings, technique, and application.
While I consider myself a fair slide player, I'm a rank novice on 6 string lap steel. I figured life is too short and I"m getting too old to be a jack of all trades and master of none, so I chose to put lap steel on the back burner.
But I certainly enjoy it, and it also leads me to the temptation of pedal steel which both fascinates and frightens me!
When I delved into 6 string lap I was introduced to the joys of the C6 tuning which is the gateway to many of the classic sounds of Western Swing which I adore.
You can try it on any 6 string guitar but it may require adjusting string gauges
Low to high:
CEGACE
Try playing Van Morrison's Moondance and you'll get the idea.

How many of you guys play lap steel? For me that's what really opened it all up for me. I still love playing bottle neck but the sound of a lap steel can not be captured playing bottleneck style, IMHO. I started taking my lap out to blues jams and it pretty much forced me to learn how to play it in very creative ways. Good times.
.

trisonic
08-07-2008, 06:59 AM
Barry,
What tuning do you favour for your regular Frankenstrat and why?

Best, Pete.

Jason Lynn
08-07-2008, 07:48 AM
Saw the Line6 sig- Are you J-Bird?

:hide

Jason Lynn
08-07-2008, 08:01 AM
But its almost, or perhaps worthy of its own dedicated 'Official''' thread.
While it shares a lot with its bottleneck brethren. There are also some radical departures in gear, tunings, technique, and application.
While I consider myself a fair slide player, I'm a rank novice on 6 string lap steel. I figured life is too short and I"m getting too old to be a jack of all trades and master of none, so I chose to put lap steel on the back burner.
But I certainly enjoy it, and it also leads me to the temptation of pedal steel which both fascinates and frightens me!
When I delved into 6 string lap I was introduced to the joys of the C6 tuning which is the gateway to many of the classic sounds of Western Swing which I adore.
You can try it on any 6 string guitar but it may require adjusting string gauges
Low to high:
CEGACE
Try playing Van Morrison's Moondance and you'll get the idea.

I agree it does deserve it's own thread..but it'd be a ghost town over there. The 'real' lap players get pretty exotic with there tunings. I've always approached it by incorporating what I was already doing with bottle neck. The big kicker was discovering ways to bring life into rhythm guitar without just thumping chords. Not having any fingers to grab notes is pretty awkward at first.

Jason Lynn
08-07-2008, 08:03 AM
BTW, since this is the slide thread. For you Austin guys... Sonny Landreth is playing at the Continental Club tonight.

Frankenstrat2
08-07-2008, 10:13 AM
Barry,
What tuning do you favour for your regular Frankenstrat and why?

Best, Pete.
Pete
I'm equally comfortable with standard or open tunings. Usually I bring 2 guitars, one in standard, the other in either open G or A (same tuning) I prefer A because I like the tighter string tension and mostly sing in A.
That said, I prefer the spookier resonance of the low notes in G or drop D if the song calls for it.
If I know we're gonna be doing Duane or Derek type stuff I try to get into open E. But its not alwaus possible or practical live
As Swampthing points out open D and E are open G and A except moved over one string.
The most important lesson II learned about slide theory is to learn the relationships of the intervals in the tunings-look for where the 1, 3, 5 , and b7 are and you'll figure things out faster.
B

Jason Lynn
08-07-2008, 11:05 AM
Barry it's been years since I've heard you play...would be great to hear where your at with slide these days. When was that hang at Leon's? 2002 or so? That was the beginning of your amp mania :)

On a funny side note. I hung out with Paul Sanchez about 2 weeks before the New York amp show. I flipped when I heard you picked up his amp. He's a great guy with a great set of ears.

decay-o-caster
08-07-2008, 11:51 AM
I've been going tuning-crazy with lap steel (at which I am also a rank amateur) - latest cool tuning I'm trying is E-G-B-D-F-A, low to high. You got yer G7 in the middle, yer Em7 on the bottom, a Dm on top, but most useful, a tritone (B-F) for use in 2-note swing blues comping. And a B-half-dim if you want it, but I don't!

At some point I'll just put it back into open E, but right now I'm enjoying F'ing with the bizarre-ness of it all! :)

Frankenstrat2
08-07-2008, 02:21 PM
Barry it's been years since I've heard you play...would be great to hear where your at with slide these days. When was that hang at Leon's? 2002 or so? That was the beginning of your amp mania :)

On a funny side note. I hung out with Paul Sanchez about 2 weeks before the New York amp show. I flipped when I heard you picked up his amp. He's a great guy with a great set of ears.
LoL! AndyZ told me you moved to Austin. I put 2+2 together.
Have you played slide through Paul's amps yet?

Jason Lynn
08-07-2008, 02:33 PM
Yeah, I brought my lapsteel down there and we had a go at it. He did not have the model you have completed yet so I played through a T-Rex and his Mil Spec. I REALLY liked the T-rex but from what I hear the one you've got is the real monster.

Frankenstrat2
08-07-2008, 03:31 PM
Yeah, I brought my lapsteel down there and we had a go at it. He did not have the model you have completed yet so I played through a T-Rex and his Mil Spec. I REALLY liked the T-rex but from what I hear the one you've got is the real monster.
Yup!
Check out the clips that Andy did on the Red iron Amps website. The ones on the Bronx page are my amp. Andy had the amp for a while......its Joey Brasler playing. Great stuff. I'll do some slide clips when I get her back.

Jason Lynn
08-07-2008, 04:18 PM
It sounds real nice. Andy hit me up pretty fast to check out the clips. Good times.

Frankenstrat2
08-07-2008, 04:25 PM
It sounds real nice. Andy hit me up pretty fast to check out the clips. Good times.
We named that amp 'Red Sonja'. She will be with me at the Tampa Tonefest next week, then she comes home to Long Island.

Jason Lynn
08-07-2008, 04:53 PM
Yea...
I did a gig last night playing guitar and steel.
Tunings for steel:
E B E F# B E
B D F# A B D
E B E G# B E
B D E G# B E

And in that order too!
Ouch!

Yeah, I can imagine. Just looking at all your tunings makes my brain hurt. I listened to some clips on your myspace. Sounds real nice. What kind of lap steel are you playing?

trisonic
08-08-2008, 09:44 AM
Barry,
I'm not a "habitual user" of different tunings...........
The open "A" you use is: EAEAC#E
"G" is DGDGBD

When you say the same - it's the same pattern but the "A" is just a whole step higher. I'm being pedantic so I don't get off on the wrong foot......
Btw I can understand now why Keef often takes off the low D - too many D's in there!

Best, Pete.

Jason Lynn
08-08-2008, 10:38 AM
Barry,
I'm not a "habitual user" of different tunings...........
The open "A" you use is: EAEAC#E
"G" is DGDGBD

When you say the same - it's the same pattern but the "A" is just a whole step higher. I'm being pedantic so I don't get off on the wrong foot......
Btw I can understand now why Keef often takes off the low D - too many D's in there!

Best, Pete.

Yep, he's saying the interval relationship across strings is the same. So you can use the same licks using either A or G.

That D on bass in G tuning is not pretty when added to the full 6 string strum but I love to use it. Rich Robinson uses G quite a bit as well and watching him live keyed me into some creative ways of incorporating the low string. You can still use the almighty power chord on it. My favorite trick with that string is to strike it at 3rd fret and bend up a full step then followed by pulling out some of the open strings behind it. Here's a little clip where I did this at the very end except I struck open strings then the bend. (It's a crappy clip I was just testing a DC womanizer going direct to my laptop on night)

http://www.jasonlynn.com/womanizer.mp3

Jason Lynn
08-08-2008, 11:16 AM
The Chandler's look real nice. This is mine...one of my favorite instruments by far. It has a very unique voice.

http://jasonlynn.com/images/wetdryrig.jpg

Jason Lynn
08-08-2008, 12:25 PM
The guitar is a Cole Clark made in Australia..

http://www.coleclarkguitars.com/product_violap.asp

The pickup is more like a P90 than a true horeshoe though. I may try putting in a more accurate replica if I can find one.

Stereo rig is fun..but those are just the lil 5 watt epi's. Probably not loud enough for anything other than bedroom jamming...but for that it's hard to beat :) I'm still working on putting together a 'live' rig version.

Jason Lynn
08-08-2008, 12:39 PM
True true...

I met a local builder that's just starting out here in Austin that I'm working with to build me a stereo 20 watt head with seperate inputs and drive but shared controls for master volume & EQ. I think it's going to sound incredible.

Frankenstrat2
08-08-2008, 02:04 PM
Barry,
I'm not a "habitual user" of different tunings...........
The open "A" you use is: EAEAC#E
"G" is DGDGBD

When you say the same - it's the same pattern but the "A" is just a whole step higher. I'm being pedantic so I don't get off on the wrong foot.......
Pete-yes, and no sort of

Yes-the G and A tunings have the same intervals. From low to high;
5 1 5 1 3 5
They are just tuned up or down one whole step. If you put a capo on open G at the 2nd fret it becomes an open A tuning.
The same is true with open D and E
The notes of open E low to high are
E B E G# B E
Tuned down becomes open D
That part is easy to grasp. But let's look at the intervals again:
Open G/A low to high:
5 1 5 1 3 5
Open D/E low to high:
1 5 1 3 5 1
Now look at this:
Take all your riffs and chord shapes from E/D tuning and move them over one string toward the treble side and the intervals are the same.
So if you can play in one tuning you already know the other as well.
5 1 5 1 3 5
__1 5 1 3 5 1

This is hard to understand without a guitar, but check it out.

Jason Lynn
08-08-2008, 02:29 PM
Actually, I think you explained that quite well Barry. Better than I ever could.

trisonic
08-08-2008, 03:56 PM
Thanks, Barry - You know I used to get all this stuff a lot easier thirty years ago.......
Best, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
08-10-2008, 07:39 AM
Thanks, Barry - You know I used to get all this stuff a lot easier thirty years ago.......
Best, Pete.I never got it. I'm thick as a door post about theory. Kirby Kelly had to beat it into me. I'm the most illiterate player I know. Musically, my signature is an 'x'!
B.

trisonic
08-10-2008, 10:46 AM
I never got it. I'm thick as a door post about theory. Kirby Kelly had to beat it into me. I'm the most illiterate player I know. Musically, my signature is an 'x'!
B.

Barry,
I found that "Kirk L'Orange" DVD you sent me (is he a porn star?) - I'm going to stay with the Dropped D tuning, see how I get on - it's not much different than what I use now.

Best, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
08-10-2008, 03:06 PM
Kirk Lorange is one of my favorite slide guys. His instructional video is brilliant.
Let me know how it works out for you.
B.

trisonic
08-11-2008, 04:13 AM
Kirk Lorange is one of my favorite slide guys. His instructional video is brilliant.
Let me know how it works out for you.
B.

It's sensible and the split screen is incredibly useful. I'm going to give it some serious work - glad I found it (from my Wife's filing system......)!
So far I can recommend it wholeheartedly to others like me, Thanks, Baz.

Best, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
08-11-2008, 06:35 AM
It's sensible and the split screen is incredibly useful. I'm going to give it some serious work - glad I found it (from my Wife's filing system......)!
So far I can recommend it wholeheartedly to others like me, Thanks, Baz.

Best, Pete.
Cool Pete
Kirk is an incredibly dedicated instructor. I've been singing his praise for years now, but mostly it falls on deaf ears. Players seem to gravitate towards more famous names for their educational tools. I guess thats a normal thing. But as a dedicated student and enthusiast of the craft of slide, I've been through most of the product out there by the more mainstream players.
I think Kirk worked really hard on developing a teaching method that is very accessible, efficient and clear for players of all levels. I do know he put years of work into the graphics and video elements of his dvd.
Perhaps you will notice that as you get deeper into the course that he also discusses the importance of intervals, that I just mentioned in this thread in regard to tunings. no one else to my knowledge brings the subject into focus. its very important for slide because we are always on the lookout for triads and chord fragments we can use to suggest chords that are very difficult to express in a straight line of the bottleneck. Kirk really nails that in his course.
Here are some links for subscribers and lurkers on this thread.
http://www.bottleneckguitar.com/
http://www.kirklorange.com/
http://8.14.112.20/bands/default.cfm?bandID=156391

KirkLorange
08-11-2008, 05:39 PM
Thanks for the thumbs up, Frankenstrat2, it's always nice to read good feedback.

For anyone wondering if playing in Dropped D means you have to play in D, have a look at this recent movie I did over a backing track that keeps changing key. Once you can see the whole fretboard as 'the chord' all keys are the same.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RvJcxDyLH3I

Cheers and thanks again. :)

trisonic
08-11-2008, 06:08 PM
You meet everybody on this site eventually - it's like standing in Piccadilly Circus!

Kirk, what I like about your DVD is that you understand about the maps we have in our head of the guitar - or in my case a Leopard who is too old to change his spots. I've been playing guitar since 1965 and up to now have avoided "Slide" - it is not the easy option!

Thanks, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
08-11-2008, 08:06 PM
Thanks for the thumbs up, Frankenstrat2, it's always nice to read good feedback.

For anyone wondering if playing in Dropped D means you have to play in D, have a look at this recent movie I did over a backing track that keeps changing key. Once you can see the whole fretboard as 'the chord' all keys are the same.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=RvJcxDyLH3I

Cheers and thanks again. :)
Welcome Kirk
Its a pleasure to have you here.
I hope you'll continue to visit occasionally.
This is a huge community of players on all levels, and there is growing interest in slide.
best
barry

Frankenstrat2
08-31-2008, 07:20 AM
Anyone check out the current issue of GP?
Sonny Landreth on the cover with a very good interview inside.
Some great insights into Sonny's style and techniques.
I particularly enjoyed his comments on why he uses the Dumble.

trisonic
09-02-2008, 11:18 AM
Haven't seen it yet.
His current CD is on permanent rotation in my car. Everyone involved (from Eric Clapton to Eric Johnson) are playing their hearts out. Don't know why but I was surprised by Sonny's writing - I've got some catching up to do......

Best, Pete.

Jason Lynn
09-02-2008, 11:31 AM
I picked up the GP issue but haven't had time to give it a read yet. Need to get on that...sounds like the CD is a hit too. Awesome!

Diamond
09-03-2008, 03:10 AM
Sonny's just had a great review in our U.K. 'Guitarist' magazine - fantastic player and for me personally his best recording has gotta be the live 'Grant Street'...never too far from the C.D. drawer ;)

Slide On!

Ian.

jrkoosh
09-03-2008, 02:42 PM
just picked up Geoff's DVD. Can't wait to watch!

geoff_hartwell
09-08-2008, 11:31 AM
Cool!
Thanks for your support. Feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions.

BTW - Sonny Landreth and I just spent a day in the studio together, and he played on two songs for my forthcoming album. Check out my website at http://www.geoffhartwell.com (http://wwwgeoffhartwell.com) for more info.

Peace and Love.
:)
Geoff Hartwell

Jason Lynn
09-08-2008, 11:54 AM
That's pretty awesome. I can only imagine what that was like having Sonny in on your album.

decay-o-caster
09-08-2008, 12:45 PM
I can only imagine what a gibbering drooling idiot I'd turn into if I were trying to play guitar in the same state as Sonny. Or Geoff, come to think of it... :)

rockindillo
09-08-2008, 12:58 PM
Cool!
Thanks for your support. Feel free to drop me a line if you have any questions.

BTW - Sonny Landreth and I just spent a day in the studio together, and he played on two songs for my forthcoming album. Check out my website at http://www.geoffhartwell.com (http://wwwgeoffhartwell.com) for more info.

Peace and Love.
:)
Geoff Hartwell

You're one lucky man, Geoff!!!

Franklin
09-08-2008, 01:58 PM
Awesome!!!

jrkoosh
09-08-2008, 06:42 PM
DVD just came in. I love it. Some immediate technique things that I did not know about were the anchoring of the thumb (this is taking me a little time to adjust with my low action strings). and resting my whole hand across the strings with the picking hand.

Thanks!

geoff_hartwell
09-10-2008, 02:32 PM
Thanks fellas!

More breaking news (I apologize if this is in the wrong thread...):

We've just confirmed another show at the world famous B.B. King's
Blues Club in NYC on the Main Stage! It's this Sunday night opening
for Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers. (He came to prominence in the late
90's with his band The Refreshments, and he wrote the theme to the
popular Fox show "King of the Hill"!)

We're REALLY excited to be returning to this historic venue. They've
asked me to sell some tickets direct to our people- so if you want to
come to the show- EMAIL ME DIRECTLY at <geoffhartwell@geoffhartwell.com> and I'll have tickets waiting for
you at the door at $17 per ticket (rather than the $20 day-of
price!).

We start at 8pm, and we really hope you can come!
:)
Geoff

PLEASE TELL YOUR FRIENDS!
================================

Sunday Sept 14th 8pm
The Geoff Hartwell Band with
Roger Clyne and the Peacemakers
BB KINGS BLUES CLUB
237 W 42nd St NYC, NY
http://www.bbkingblues.com/schedule/moreinfo.cgi?id=2845

TonePowers
09-23-2008, 12:49 PM
Greetings all.....I have enjoyed reading through the thread and trying to pick up as much info as possible. I have been playing for years but have just now really started looking into slide playing. The article on Sonny Landreth in GP and in Premier Guitar were great and inspiring to say the least. I have picked up several slides from brass and steel to glass and bottle....even a slide ring....and honestly, everytime I put one on I feel like a fish out of water. Any advice for a seasoned guitar player bent on adding slide to the repertoire?

Frankenstrat2
09-23-2008, 01:18 PM
Greetings all.....I have enjoyed reading through the thread and trying to pick up as much info as possible. I have been playing for years but have just now really started looking into slide playing. The article on Sonny Landreth in GP and in Premier Guitar were great and inspiring to say the least. I have picked up several slides from brass and steel to glass and bottle....even a slide ring....and honestly, everytime I put one on I feel like a fish out of water. Any advice for a seasoned guitar player bent on adding slide to the repertoire?
Welcome to the thread!
Glad you enjoyed the read so far. Thqt's why its here- to be a resource for guys just like you!
I played guitar for more than 30 years before I took up slide. I always wanted to play slide, its just that everytime I'd pick one up, it sounded like crap, and I got frustrated and put it back down.
I suspect that's particularly true for players who have already achieved a certain level of proficiency with regular guitar. Because those players have developed their ears from years of playing, the intonation and quality of tone issues become much more critical ( and annoying ) when one tries to learn slide.
Here's some advise:
Work on intonation and accuracy rather than riffs and songs. Concentrate on getting clean, clear single notes that are in pitch. Try some simple single string intervals, get the notes to sound and sustain, and then add varying amounts of vibrato. Then do the same with double-stops and triads, concentrating on muting unwanted notes and extraneous noises.
If you have a lot of fret rattle or notes are fretting out, you may want to try a heavier gauge string, particularly the high E, and maybe raise the action a bit, and even try a lighter slide such as the V-slide. As you become more proficient, you can move back down to lower action, lighter strings, and heavier slides.

TonePowers
09-23-2008, 01:30 PM
Thanks....I'll give it a shot!

Chris Rice
09-28-2008, 05:35 PM
My new favorite tuning, Drop G:
http://www.ricecustomguitars.com/sounds/R09_0039.MP3

JB Eckl
10-02-2008, 09:29 AM
Hey guys, great thread. I recently got up the nerve to take up slide after blowing it off for almost 20 years... I invested in a National Reso-lectric and a few videos. I've been a professional player for awhile, but this is definitely one way to get humbled quick!

So far my favorite slide is the concave brass one made by Dunlop. Anyone know who makes concave glass slides? I find I can use a much lighter touch if the slide matches the neck radius.

kimock
10-02-2008, 09:38 AM
I find I can use a much lighter touch if the slide matches the neck radius.

Me too, but flatten the radius at the bridge, no need to radius the slide, right?

peace

Frankenstrat2
11-07-2008, 07:32 AM
Bump for the newbies and regulars.

mad dog
11-07-2008, 08:35 AM
The latest update to my slide rig:

My longtime top choice for slide playing is the G&L ASAT Classic, mainly due to the wonderful neck p/u. I didn't like the bridge p/u as much, also had some trouble with saddle wear on the stock 6-piece saddles. So ordered a Glendale bridge and saddles (steel E/A, brass for the others), and a Don Mare 0038 bridge p/u. I had the action and radius on the G&L just right for slide/regular playing mix, so had my guitar tech measure string heights before doing the swap.

Just got to try out the result last night. Well worth it, is my initial impression. The bridge changes add a touch of spank and sustain (not the the G&L lacked any), also a little extra clarity. The new pickup by itself does sound different from the stock G&L unit. I probably won't be using bridge only for slide. What it does give me is a useful, much richer middle position sound. I had only used the neck p/u for slide and open tuning work. Now I have two, equally toneful choices.

It didn't hurt that I tried the modded guitar through the lo power tweed twin. Outboard reverb, a little delay, a little bad bob clean boost. It's the most beautiful sound. Fat and resonant clean tones, turn up just a bit to get this rich crunch on the bass strings, every note under the slide ready to feedback but not quite.

I've always loved this G&L for slide, now even more so.

Frankenstrat2
11-08-2008, 07:10 AM
So far my favorite slide is the concave brass one made by Dunlop. Anyone know who makes concave glass slides? I find I can use a much lighter touch if the slide matches the neck radius.
I think either Luther at Big Heart slides or Ian at Diamond Bottlenecks can help you out. Links on page 1 of this thread
Barry

rdamato
11-10-2008, 04:59 PM
What about guitars?? I need an inexpensive guitar that i can set up exclusively for slide. Any thought???

Ron

cbpickin
11-10-2008, 05:23 PM
What about guitars?? I need an inexpensive guitar that i can set up exclusively for slide. Any thought???

Ron

I've been through a few and my current one is my favorite and least expensive. A Reverend Roundhouse with two P90's. The tone controls are very cool on this guitar. It has a bass roll off pot so I use the middle position and roll just a bit of the bass off and get the perfect slide tone playing through my Clark Beaufort (tweed deluxe clone).
I paid just under $500 for the guitar and it is a slide tone monster.

Austinrocks
11-10-2008, 05:38 PM
the robot guitars from gibson really have me gassing, being able to play different tuning on the same guitar is exciting, with out all the pain, LP and SG are both excellent for slide, though I used my SG for years, really like the high fret access on those guitars, gibson may come out with a robot flying V that would be great.

For slde and various tunings if your changing tunings, fixed bridge really helps, the floating tremolos are really hard to tune, especially live.

decay-o-caster
11-10-2008, 05:52 PM
I'm sort of drawn toward the Harmony H44 Reissues for slide. Worth a look anyway.

Frankenstrat2
11-11-2008, 04:55 AM
What about guitars?? I need an inexpensive guitar that i can set up exclusively for slide. Any thought???

Ron
First question might be:
"What do you consider 'inexpensive"?
Whether you want to transform an unplayable junker into a funky old slide machine or go for a low end production guitar, the next consideration might be pickup choices- mainly single coil vs humbuckers. Dano lipstick pups make great sliders too, and the recent re-issues can be had for low dollars. Personally, I went after the Epi G-400 series, which is their version of the SG. They are all over eBay for cheap, and with a pickup swap can be a formidable slide guitar for low $$. Regarding strats, I agree that a trem bridge can be a bit unstable for changing tunings alot for slide, but I use them anyway, and don't have many complaints. Again, you could pick up a Squire, and swap out the pups. Last suggestion (don't laugh) is a Line6 Variax modeling guitar. They are stupid cheap on eBay now, and model acoustics, 12 strings, resonators, Les Pauls,and 12 others, and do a fine job for a dedicated slide guitar. All of my suggestions are under $500.

GBStratman
11-11-2008, 07:18 AM
Recently picked up slide for the 1st time and came across this thread. I've loved the Warren Haynes book and DVD, being both a great player and someone who can really explain what he's doing.

As the guitarist in a trio, I'm finding I need to switch back and forth between slide and non-slide. I've been practicing palming my pick, as Warren does, but getting the slide on and off takes more effort, and I've already broken a few as I've watched them roll to the floor and shatter.

Does anyone know of a contraption that will hold the slide behind the headstock for easy access?

Frankenstrat2
11-11-2008, 07:40 AM
Recently picked up slide for the 1st time and came across this thread. I've loved the Warren Haynes book and DVD, being both a great player and someone who can really explain what he's doing.

As the guitarist in a trio, I'm finding I need to switch back and forth between slide and non-slide. I've been practicing palming my pick, as Warren does, but getting the slide on and off takes more effort, and I've already broken a few as I've watched them roll to the floor and shatter.

Does anyone know of a contraption that will hold the slide behind the headstock for easy access?
Yes, its really a heartbreak to lose your favorite slide to a bar room floor.
There have been plenty of devices to stick a slide to the back of the headstock, or pickguard, velcro contraptions, and such. Honestly, they all kinda suck.
Derek, Warren, Sonny all keep them in their pocket. I guess thats old school.
But I do understand. My personal solution is a custom guitar strap with a built-in slide pocket.
My friend Danny at DSL Straps can fix you up. He designed as strap for Brett Garsed and then we modified it for my design to be quick draw and also have built in pick holders
Tell Danny that Barry Weber sent you.

koen
11-11-2008, 10:22 AM
Recently picked up slide for the 1st time and came across this thread. I've loved the Warren Haynes book and DVD, being both a great player and someone who can really explain what he's doing.

As the guitarist in a trio, I'm finding I need to switch back and forth between slide and non-slide. I've been practicing palming my pick, as Warren does, but getting the slide on and off takes more effort, and I've already broken a few as I've watched them roll to the floor and shatter.

Does anyone know of a contraption that will hold the slide behind the headstock for easy access?

I once saw a guy who kept his harmonica in a coffee filter holder taped to his mic stand. Maybe worthwhile trying?

Frankenstrat2
11-11-2008, 10:31 AM
http://www.dslstraps.com.au/images/art25-15-8.jpg

This is the strap that Danny designed for Brett Garsed. Here's the link:
http://www.dslstraps.com.au/index.php/cPath/61_69

Mine is different. I wanted the slide holder to be horizontal rather than vertical, and open ended, more like a shell holder for ammunition. My slides are usually either Diamond or Nunwells, which are very thick blown glass, so I sent one to Danny so he would get a correct fit for the slide in its holster. I learned from experience that as the leather stretches, you can just insert a layer of velcro inside to tighten it up if needed over time. My strap also has little crescent shaped inserts to hold flat picks. Most of the timeI play with my fingers now, but occassionally I'll want a flatpick handy.
I found that with the slide holder set on the horizontal it was much more ergonomic to quickly slip the slide on your finger and be ready to play, and also easier to put it back into its holster.
And of course, when you 'wear your slide out on your strap' its pretty much says it all.
Danny is great to work with, his straps are outstanding, and very reasonable. He does exotics too- I have one in snake, and another in sting ray.
End of infomercial, back to your regular programming.....

Frankenstrat2
11-11-2008, 11:22 AM
I once saw a guy who kept his harmonica in a coffee filter holder taped to his mic stand. Maybe worthwhile trying?
LOL. Shows to go ya- there are many ways to skin a cat!

Frankenstrat2
01-03-2009, 01:10 PM
2009 bump

Diamond
01-05-2009, 10:28 AM
Happy New Year to all slide-a-holics here:AOK. Hey Barry - if you're visiting NAMM later this month, please say a big 'Hi' to Luther & Gerry from us over here in the freezing U.K......i'll make it to NAMM - one day:o.

Slide On!

Ian & the 'D.B's team.

Frankenstrat2
01-05-2009, 12:06 PM
Happy New Year to all slide-a-holics here:AOK. Hey Barry - if you're visiting NAMM later this month, please say a big 'Hi' to Luther & Gerry from us over here in the freezing U.K......i'll make it to NAMM - one day:o.

Slide On!

Ian & the 'D.B's team.
'Ello Ian!
Happy New Year my friend!
No NAMM show for me in 2009, unfortunately.
I'll miss seeing all my friends but I have to stay in NYC

Diamond
01-06-2009, 07:46 AM
Hi Barry! Wot...no B.W. at NAMM:eek: - you'll be truly missed by all who slide my friend!

Take care & we'll speak soon;)

Slide On!

Ian.

Jason Lynn
01-06-2009, 08:17 AM
That's a bummer. I'm actually going to fly out this year. What about mister Chalnik? Did he get a pass?

geoff_hartwell
01-23-2009, 04:56 PM
Hi Barry - Happy 2009!

Hope any slide fans in the NY area are going to BB King's this Tuesday to see Sonny Landreth and the Campbell Bros.

Guaranteed good times!

:)


GH

decay-o-caster
01-23-2009, 05:15 PM
Hey Geoff - You going to be in Austin for NGW again this year?

geoff_hartwell
01-25-2009, 12:38 AM
Hi David!

For the moment, I'll be doing a slide seminar at the main campus, which is now at SUNY Purchase - REALLY close to home for me! - but not in Austin unfortunately.

Can't wait for you to hear the track Sonny and I did for my new record- It'll be released very soon. Lots more balls-out playing this time around.

I'm psyched. How are you?

:)

Geoff

Neer
01-25-2009, 09:06 AM
I used to play a lot of bottleneck guitar on a Strat with heavy flatwound strings, but ultimately I decided to focus on playing steel guitar. I haven't touched a bottleneck in years since I took up the steel. For me it was the sound I was after all along anyway.

Jason Lynn
01-25-2009, 09:31 AM
Loved your playing in that video on your page Mr. Neer....good stuff.

Gretsch1972
04-04-2009, 08:08 PM
I swear by the AXYS slide that Shubb makes. I've tried glass slides for years, but ultimately I like the tone of brass better for National, steel-string acoustic and my Tele.

I got into slide guitar as a jazz musician wanting to learn how to play Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong's music. Some of the sounds and timbres really lent themselves to slide so I dove in that way and eventually got around to Robert Johnson, Son House and much later to the Sacred Steel music of the Southern churches.

Frankenstrat2
04-05-2009, 11:10 AM
I swear by the AXYS slide that Shubb makes. I've tried glass slides for years, but ultimately I like the tone of brass better for National, steel-string acoustic and my Tele.

I got into slide guitar as a jazz musician wanting to learn how to play Duke Ellington and Louis Armstrong's music. Some of the sounds and timbres really lent themselves to slide so I dove in that way and eventually got around to Robert Johnson, Son House and much later to the Sacred Steel music of the Southern churches.

Haven't seen the AXYS. Got a link to a pic? I agree about brass for some guitars.
I hear you about using slide as a tool for jazz. I wish I was a decent jazzer but I never developed the chops for it. But I've had a great time the past few years having the opportunity to play on bandstands with really good horn players, particularly trombonists. I have a blast jamming with the horn sections and trying to join in with their harmonized horn parts, punching up the little accents, etc.
When I started slide I heard it in my head as emulating a blues harp (something else I could never play). Then I realized that the harp players were playing horn lines. Lots of electric slide guitar players live in the upper registers. I seem to gravitate to the big fat midrange, where the trombone lives. Lots of time thats what I'm hearing in my head for a solo- trying to play like a trombone solo would. I'm not anywhere close to where I'd like to be, but it makes the horn guys crack up to jam with me. They usually hate guitar guys, but they like me. Plus I'll always call out a song in Eb or Bb when they show up.....

sharpshooter
04-05-2009, 11:26 AM
+ on the trombone regester,,,,thick mids.
The "slide", on the trombone, makes it a good horn type to use for working-out lines on guitar.

decay-o-caster
04-05-2009, 01:29 PM
I'm a big fan of the area between about the 9th - 15th frets on the middle strings. That seems to be where I like my sound best and the notes work out for me the most. Sort of 'boney'... :)

Gretsch1972
04-06-2009, 08:10 AM
http://www.shubb.com/axys/index.htm

Frankenstrat2
05-26-2009, 03:59 PM
Way overdue for a :bumpbump

Frankenstrat2
05-29-2009, 12:22 PM
I had a conversation with Chuck D'Aloia on another thread, where Chuck posted one of his always excellent clips, and we started a discussion about playing slide. I decided to move it over here to continue it because I didn't want to derail attention from the discussion of Chuck's clip, and also because I thought the conversation might be of interest to advanced players who are thinking about getting back into slide.
The clip that started the conversation is here:
http://chuckdaloiamusic.com/sitebuil...b3adlibcab.mp3 (http://chuckdaloiamusic.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/alfverb3adlibcab.mp3)
and here are the comments that led us over to the Slide Thread:
**************
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankenstrat2 http://img.thegearpage.net/board/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.thegearpage.net/board/showthread.php?p=6170562#post6170562)
Chuck-
Funny- our local Jazz station has been doing a comprehensive Benny Goodman restrospective for the past week or so, and I've been listening on drive time. Killer stuff.
The first thing I thought when your clip started was that your tone, attack and bends were extremely clarinet-like.
In my own very limited fashion I've been trying to approach my slide playing more like trombone than guitar these days, but concentrating down in the girthy mid-range where I like to live.
I'd love to hear what might happen if you ever decide to pick up a bottleneck.
Great hangin with you at the Amp Show- I wish I had spent more time up in your suite checking out Blues with Brains and the great jams I know were going on.
The day flew by and then it was over!
Best
barry weber

Barry,

I do play slide but am rusty and don't have a guitar for it at the moment.
I'm a JV (junior varsity) slide player but I do love it and there was a time......
I hear you about the mid range growl. I'll bet the action is high enough on this strat that I could give it a try. I used to get cheap guitars, put 13's on them, raise the action high and play with a pick. Usually in G tuning. Then I threw away the pick and started getting better. I had a band with me playing slide, an 8 string (charlie hunter ax) player and a drummer.
I really want to get back into it.
Thanks for mentioning it, maybe it will light a fire under me.
I love Ry Cooder, Sonny Landrith, (live album is sick) Lee Roy Parnell, Joe Walsh, Duane, Lowell George....the usual suspects but I'm going to be rusty. If I post maybe you can give me some pointers. Appreciate the comments and inspiration, you've got the tone.......
And yea, Benny Goodman burned!
*********************************

Frankenstrat2
05-29-2009, 12:50 PM
Barry,

I do play slide but am rusty and don't have a guitar for it at the moment.
I'm a JV (junior varsity) slide player but I do love it and there was a time......
I hear you about the mid range growl. I'll bet the action is high enough on this strat that I could give it a try. I used to get cheap guitars, put 13's on them, raise the action high and play with a pick. Usually in G tuning. Then I threw away the pick and started getting better. I had a band with me playing slide, an 8 string (charlie hunter ax) player and a drummer.
I really want to get back into it.
Thanks for mentioning it, maybe it will light a fire under me.
I love Ry Cooder, Sonny Landrith, (live album is sick) Lee Roy Parnell, Joe Walsh, Duane, Lowell George....the usual suspects but I'm going to be rusty. If I post maybe you can give me some pointers. Appreciate the comments and inspiration, you've got the tone.......
And yea, Benny Goodman burned!
*********************************
Chuck-
I'm was a bit sheepish about getting on a soapbox to tell anybody anything about playing guitar. But a few years ago I was down in Clearwater at the Tampa ToneFest, and Nick asked me if I would give a hands-on slide seminar for a group of players. I said okay, and then found myself sitting in a circle with a handful of advanced players, pro's, semi-pros and my good friend, Tomo Fujita! Talk about intimidating! How can I give a slide lesson to group including a Berklee professor?
What I quickly learned is that many advanced players pick up the slide, and quickly put it back down again in disgust after a brief encounter- mainly because they don't have the patience to get past sounding bad in order to sound good.
It turned out to be very quick and easy to teach those guys, because they already know how to play so well, and already had the experience to make good note choices and easily follow chord changes.
What they didn't have was the specific skill set that slide requires which can be quite different from traditional fretted guitar playing.
Of course the first rule of slide is there are no rules, do whatever works for you that enables you to make music that pleases you. But beyond that, it was elementary stuff from a slide players point of view- damping behind the slide, muting with picking hand, muting with opposing fingers in fingerstyle picking to sound only intentional notes, different vibrato techniques, tunings and their relationships to shapes that are friendly to slide, tone, and how gear will influence it.
As regards your comment above on high action, or needing heavy strings or a dedicated guitar-
I recommend all those things for beginners and intermediate players. Over the years I have moved away from dedicated guitars for slide, although some instruments are more 'slide-friendly' for sure. At this point I'm finding that advanced slide relates more to the interaction of your touch with the electronics and frets and neck radius rather than to high setup or heavy guage strings.
You are such a great player that I suspect if you brush up a bit on your fingerpicking/damping/muting techiques you could play commanding slide lines in natural tuning on your tele without changing a thing. Since you are playing through D-type amps, you are already in an extremely slide-friendly environment with all of that sustain and built in compression working in your favor. Because you play with low action, light strings, and light touch at low volume, I think you are a perfect candidate for a V-slide from Vinny at V-picks. His slides are made from that same acrylic stuff that his picks are made from. They are super light so they dont cause any fret rattle, or fret out with low action. They don't sustain nearly as well as the heavy glass ones I like, but I think with the amp and guitar you use the V-slide would put you right on track very quickly.
Vinny is a great guy- I'm sure he'll fix you right up with the right size slide.
I can't wait to hear what you might be able to do with a V-slide AND a whammy bar!
Best
barry

cdaloia
05-30-2009, 07:41 AM
Barry,

I have a busy weekend but want to talk to you about this so I'll get in touch after the weekend.
I have another guitar that I think I'm going to dedicate to slide.
Don't think I'm ready for the finesse yet so I think that I'll still need heavier strings and high action.
I'm exited about getting back to it but will need to shed..
I like to play real simple. Slide is so hip that you don't have to play much but you do have to play it right.
Plus the next recording is going to be a bluesy one to go along with the next installment of BWB's. Blues w/ changes like that strat clip so I'll get to play some slide on that.
Have a good weekend and I'll get in touch.
Thanks for the inspiration.

Chuck

bWurtz
06-12-2009, 12:23 AM
Does anyone have any opinions on the Gretsch G5715 Lap steel? (This one: http://www.samedaymusic.com/product--GRE2515902) I'm in the market for a lap steel and I have the chance to buy this Gretsch new. Anyone have it? Some posted here awhile back recommending eBay for old Nationals and other vintage lap steels that pop up at around the same price, would I be better off trying to land one of those?

Thanks in advance.

trisonic
06-27-2009, 07:32 AM
This thread deserves resuscitation...........

Best, Pete.

decay-o-caster
06-27-2009, 06:59 PM
New CD Alert, Slide Division: Geoff Hartwell (TGP-er, NGW slide clinician, all-round good guy) just released his second CD - "Hate To See You Go". His first CD was "Perfect Stranger", mighty fine, but kind of on the sensitive side. "Hate To See You Go" is a burnin' session. Some help from Sonny Landreth and Cindy Cashdollar (did I mention I'm going to marry her when the Temporary Restraining Order expires? :) ), lots of organ and tenor sax, and much blowing on the guitar. At CD Baby, and well worth your time and trouble to acquire it. I'm enjoying multiple listens to it.

bWurtz
07-03-2009, 01:58 AM
Since no one seems to have much experience with the Gretsch, does anyone have any recommendations for a new lap steel guitar? I'm looking for something sub $500. The Chandler RH-2 @ ~$400 from MF seems like an alright deal for an American made slab of wood. Though I just need something to learn on, I would like something that will last and sounds decently out of the box.

johnwtuggle
07-03-2009, 06:53 AM
I would look for an old national lap steel. You have to make sure the pickups are original. You can usually find one around 200-500 depending on condition.

I had a 1950's one and it sounded awesome. Think old school country. Add some reverb and play it through a twin and you can simulate a pedal steel with a volume pedal or the volume knob.

http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-NATIONAL-LAP-STEEL-50s-WITH-ORIG-TWEED-CASE_W0QQitemZ300327011161QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGuita r?hash=item45ece28359&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1205|293%3A1| 294%3A50

Just don't get the Fender. The pickups are crap and the Volume knobs get in the way of your hand.

They're really fun to play, and I wish I hadn't sold mine. I'll probably pick up another some time.

bek
07-03-2009, 07:31 AM
http://www.industrialguitar.com/

Great guitars, easy to modify, literally bulletproof, and you won't see one just everywhere. Tone on the "scalding" side, the one I had. A beast. Usually one on Ebay.

Frankenstrat2
07-03-2009, 05:49 PM
http://www.industrialguitar.com/

Great guitars, easy to modify, literally bulletproof, and you won't see one just everywhere. Tone on the "scalding" side, the one I had. A beast. Usually one on Ebay.

I own an Industrial. I like it a lot.

Frankenstrat2
07-03-2009, 06:30 PM
Heads up on a fantastic slide video right here on our own TGP Webzine from Jackie Pearson. Absolutely fantastic. Treat yourself
http://www.tgpwebzine.com/?cat=81

geoff_hartwell
07-04-2009, 01:15 AM
New CD Alert, Slide Division: Geoff Hartwell (TGP-er, NGW slide clinician, all-round good guy) just released his second CD - "Hate To See You Go". His first CD was "Perfect Stranger", mighty fine, but kind of on the sensitive side. "Hate To See You Go" is a burnin' session. Some help from Sonny Landreth and Cindy Cashdollar (did I mention I'm going to marry her when the Temporary Restraining Order expires? :) ), lots of organ and tenor sax, and much blowing on the guitar. At CD Baby, and well worth your time and trouble to acquire it. I'm enjoying multiple listens to it.

You're the Man :) It's available at http://cdbaby.com/cd/geoffhartwell2

Sonny plays with me on the first track, Cindy plays on two tracks, and Dana Colley (from Morphine) plays bari sax on two tracks. If you have any questions, just drop me an email through the website.
:)
Geoff

Jason Lynn
09-04-2009, 11:36 AM
Trivia question...help me out guys.

Anyone know the acoustic guitar tuning Ry Cooder used on "Cherry Ball Blues"? I can't find it on the web anywhere and want to see if I can fumble through it a bit.

Jason Lynn
09-07-2009, 11:17 PM
Come on...anyone? Barry can fart in here and get a response...me? Dead air.

:banana

Frankenstrat2
09-08-2009, 04:59 AM
Come on...anyone? Barry can fart in here and get a response...me? Dead air.

:banana

fwwwwwttttttttt....
I did check my library, and I don't have a copy of that track anymore.
My guess is open A or G, but that's from memory a long long time ago.
Shoot me an mp3 and I'll try to figure it out

trisonic
09-08-2009, 06:18 AM
fwwwwwttttttttt....

That's in C6 tuning........

Best, Pete.

Uncle_Salty
09-08-2009, 08:13 AM
You're the Man :) It's available at http://cdbaby.com/cd/geoffhartwell2

Sonny plays with me on the first track, Cindy plays on two tracks, and Dana Colley (from Morphine) plays bari sax on two tracks. If you have any questions, just drop me an email through the website.
:)
Geoff

I'm always keen to hear new and interesting slide players, so I went and picked this up as soon as I stumbled upon this thread. Very much looking forward to hearing it.

Salty

Jason Lynn
09-08-2009, 08:59 AM
It's not G....I'll just have to stumble through some tunings to see if I find it.

Jason Lynn
09-08-2009, 09:20 AM
Barry,

attachment on it's way to your @yahoo account. It's almost 5 mb so may not get through?

DonW
09-09-2009, 07:08 AM
Glad the thread was bumped up as I'm taking a stab at slide again. Some years ago I played it frequently but somehow put it down inadvertently and the effect hasn't been good. Gave away my fav slide to a buddy now I've got a couple I'm trying to settle in with one. Love my thick metal then I went and picked up a thick glass slide. Can't make up my mind on which one yet. but I suppose the best part is that I'm at least back at it.

The moral of this story: don't put it down for an extended length of time. I feel as if my technique however effective or shoddy was productive and now I feel like I'm trying to learn how to ride a bike all over again.

There's more thread than I can read right now so please forgive me if this question has come up in the previous pages. Slide action on a guitar, is higher really better?

Chris Rice
09-09-2009, 07:13 AM
There's more thread than I can read right now so please forgive me if this question has come up in the previous pages. Slide action on a guitar, is higher really better?

I like it a hair over 1/16" at the 12th fret.

Frankenstrat2
09-09-2009, 07:24 AM
There's more thread than I can read right now so please forgive me if this question has come up in the previous pages. Slide action on a guitar, is higher really better?
I suggest you just go back and read the first 3 or 4 pages of this thread.
String height and gauge is whatever works for you, but in the beginning you might like to bump it all up a bit until you get clean and comfortable again

TNJ
09-09-2009, 09:53 AM
Newbie here...thanks to Barry for directing me here.

I've been playing guitar forever, but am a newcomer to playing
slide. I tried for a long time to make it work, until someone told me to get the note over the FRET, instead of between them! :D

Live and learn...
Anyway, I play using the Warren Haynes/Jack Pearson standard tuning as a preference. I only wish I could approach their expertise...maybe in 30 years. I actually like playing in open G or open E or open C better, as I think it's easier to cop some of those classic phrases that way.
But, I dont play hardly any slide at all in the band (maybe 1-2 tunes per night)...so it's just easier to be lazy and play in standard tuning.
I do prefer glass slides...always have.
Coricidin bottles are my actual #1 fave...but they are hard to find in a size which fits my middle finger. I've tried ring and pinky fingers...no dice.
I also love Lindley's Dumble tone or Derek's Fender Super or Twin 6 tone as gold standards. My Two Rock Emerald Pro and Bogner Ecstasy Classic (Blue Channel) give me GREAT slide tone, however. I just hit the neck humbucker of my guitar, crank the volume pot, and go.

I have actually played acoustic slide on Scott Peterson's "Rainshine" CD, and he really did a great job getting that tone to sit pretty in the mix on the track. Scott's a good friend, and I was honored to add what I could to the project....long time ago, but that CD has held up well. Check it out if you get a chance.

O.K....I'm done rambling.

Carry on guys!

S.j

johnwtuggle
09-09-2009, 11:41 AM
Newbie here...thanks to Barry for directing me here.

I've been playing guitar forever, but am a newcomer to playing
slide. I tried for a long time to make it work, until someone told me to get the note over the FRET, instead of between them! :D

S.j

Slide is just a great way to express the blues. A lot like the human voice.
Once you can get to play the note right over the fret, the excitement comes when you play between them. Duane Allman did it all the time.

trisonic
09-12-2009, 06:48 AM
Can we discuss the role of compressors with Slide guitar or Lap Steel?
What are we looking for from them and preferred pedals?

Thanks, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
09-12-2009, 09:12 AM
Oy Vey!
LOL.
I love comp pedals!
I think Sonny Landreth once admitted he was seriously addicted to them.
Everyone has their favorites for different reasons and tastes.
Of course what they can do for a slider is to allow the notes to sustain longer, which adds to the singing quality referred to by JohnTuggle above.
Many of us also look for amps that have a lot of built-in natural tube compression, which often lead slide players to cascading gain circuits such as those found in Dumbles and D-type circuits, and other medium gain amps with pronounced articulated and compressed saggy gain such as the Demeter TGA-3, Jim Kelly, old Tweeds, and others.
However much of the same qualities can be achieved through an OD pedal and/or a comp pedal. I've owned many, starting with the grandaddy- the one-knob red MXR Dynacomp, various Keeley's, Carl Martin, and others both memorable and forgettable.
In my case I'm looking for the best qualities in a good comp- endless sustain, great articulation, transparency to the tone of the guitar and amp, and a lack of 'squish' (a side effect of compression which equalizes the attack, volume and dynamics of each note) .
The pedal I ended up keeping on my board was built for me by Bjorn Juhl, (the Mad Professor) in his BJFe line of pedals, known as the PGC, or Pine Green Compressor. For me, Bjorn seemed to nail all of the desirable qualities, while eliminating the ones I dislike. Several of my friends agree, and have snapped them up whenever possible (they are rare and hard to find).
Recently I also acquired a TC Nova System floorboard, mainly for the studio quality delay algorhythms- some very similar to the discontinued and collectible TC 2290 rack delay (Delays are another topic near and dear to many slide players). An unexpected bonus to the TC Nova system is the discovery that it also contains a studio quality compressor that rivals or exceeds the performance of many of the best dedicated comp units out there.
So I use the TC Nova system on the pedal board for my amps that have a FX loop, and the BJFe PGC on my analog board for amps where the effects go into the front end.
whew.
Another point to consider is where you put the comp in your signal chain.
Again- its a matter of taste and performance. I prefer to have mine first in the chain after the guitar signal. Thats easy on a pedal board. With the Nova System, there is a feature that allows you to choose your signal chain order and also choose whether its parallel or series. All these little niggling details affect the response to your touch from the guitar to the speaker.
I cant get too technical beyond this, except mostly I know what I like when I hear and feel it.
I'm interested in what you other sliders have to say on the topic.
Thanks Pete!

trisonic
09-12-2009, 09:20 AM
Baz,
Thanks for the usual comprehensive reply. I'm looking forward in due course to your comments on VVT "X" with slide.......
Let's keep the ball rolling.

Best, Pete.

Frankenstrat2
09-12-2009, 10:04 AM
Baz,
Thanks for the usual comprehensive reply. I'm looking forward in due course to your comments on VVT "X" with slide.......
Let's keep the ball rolling.

Best, Pete.
Its in transit as we speak.
I'm also home today, working on the rest of the Amp Expo reviews.
Better late than never
baz

Jason Lynn
09-13-2009, 10:44 AM
I've avoided compressors for a long time because I've never got used to the hard squish on the attack most of them have. Picked up the Strymon OB.1 from my friend about 3 weeks ago and used it at my last gig...feeding a lap steel. It's subtle in comparison to most pedal based comps but I loved the additional note sustain...so much so it stayed on all night. I put my EB jr volume pedal after it and that kept the dynamics in place. As far as compressors go though I wouldn't say they are a requirement in my slide rig...but this may be in part that my lap steel is a semi hollow so with a subtle and constant vibrato with the slide and enough volume from the amp, getting sustain has not been a problem for me. Still though, the OB.1 is nice and I imagine it's going to stay in the chain.

The Luke
10-15-2009, 07:29 AM
I've always been mainly a hard rock style player that dabbles in blues, but after seeing Mick Taylor, I thought, I should finally get around to trying the slide. I have ordered a heavy walled Dunlop Blues Bottle Slide and watched the Warren Haynes Electric Blues and Slide DVD so can't wait to get the slide and try some things out.

I have read through all of this thread, found some very useful stuff, so figured it deserved a bump.
Never listened to Jack Pearson before either, but damn he's amazing.

Franklin
10-15-2009, 05:48 PM
I too like light compression, but usually don't use a compressor. I've tried several of them, but I prefer the compression I get from my OD/fuzz pedals and my amps cranked into the break-up area.

Now that we're on page 13 I thought I would reiterate the first rule in slide playing for all those starting out!

Muting!

It's all about muting, with your "strumming" hand and your "fretting" hand behind the slide. You want whatever strings you are not playing to be muted, almost always. This is why using a pick to play slide is uncommon.

I use my thumb, index, middle and ring fingers to play the strings. I also use the same finger to mute the strings. Depending on what string I am playing and technique; I will also mute with the side on my hand (a trad palm mute) or even my pinky.

Take your time, practice slowly and precisely. Playing finger style is whole different approach. Don't rush into and actually practice scales/arpeggios/riffs/exercises, etc with the slide -slowly. Just like you started out, practicing slowly and precisely.

The muscle memory will start to build and you'll be faster in no time.


Rule #2? Heck, I don't know! There are lot's of them! LOL!!
Maybe "use your ears and not your eyes"?

9fingers
10-15-2009, 06:44 PM
Rule # 2 - it is OK to break "rule #1"!
I have played slide for 35 years- WITH a flatpick. The longer I play the less I mute. Once I know what strings sound good ringing WITH other strings I love to let the strings ring together, slide into each other and stay full of non-muted overtones.
Rule # 1 applies certainly to the Allman-Trucks-Pearson etc school of slide, which I love & respect tremendously. However, that is not "the only way" to approach slide. Try different ways & you'll find a mix that works for you.

kimock
10-15-2009, 08:08 PM
Rule # 2 - it is OK to break "rule #1"!
I have played slide for 35 years- WITH a flatpick. The longer I play the less I mute. Once I know what strings sound good ringing WITH other strings I love to let the strings ring together, slide into each other and stay full of non-muted overtones.

That's a big plus 1.

Frankenstrat2
10-16-2009, 06:09 AM
My rule #1 for slide:
There are no rules.

Do what works for you. Have fun with it. Make good music and don't worry about how other guys say you should do it. If it works for you, its right.

kimock
10-16-2009, 06:44 AM
My rule #1 for slide:
There are no rules.

Do what works for you. Have fun with it. Make good music and don't worry about how other guys say you should do it. If it works for you, its right.

That's why I play lap steel.
To say that I over invested my time in trying to learn to play the guitar would be an understatement.

For the sake of my mental health I was encouraged to pick up a hobby, so I thought 'What about Hawaiian guitar?"

I just play it and never even try to 'learn' it, I let go of that, it's just for fun.
I haven't the faintest idea what I'm doing with it, but it sounds nice, so who cares?

Franklin
10-16-2009, 06:49 AM
Rule # 2 - it is OK to break "rule #1"!
I have played slide for 35 years- WITH a flatpick. The longer I play the less I mute. Once I know what strings sound good ringing WITH other strings I love to let the strings ring together, slide into each other and stay full of non-muted overtones.

While I don't play with the pick, I am directing this towards people who are starting out playing slide. I have helped quite a few people learning slide and this is one of the things I see people struggle with the most.

Quite often I am not muting behind the slide for that exact reason. I also do the same thind with my picking hand, again for the same reason. There are very cool overtones that you get from doing this.

Of course there are no hard and fast rules, I'm talking about getting people started in the right direction.

I will not get into a pissing contest about what is right and what is wrong.

My rule #1 for slide:
There are no rules.

Do what works for you. Have fun with it. Make good music and don't worry about how other guys say you should do it. If it works for you, its right.

Doing your own thing and not listening to anyone else works for some people, but not for many people. Seriously, why should I second guess myself when offering solid advice? Muting is a neseccary technique for all sorts of guitar playing.

I'm a little surprised at the reaction to my suggestion to be honest.

Jason Lynn
10-16-2009, 06:54 AM
I'll agree with ya Franklin. Maybe you guys should remove the word "rule" and just say "my advice".

:boxer

9fingers
10-16-2009, 10:21 AM
Good posts- I did not mean at all to imply that muting is "wrong". I do use it as part of my slide process. I was only suggesting that there are other interesting possibilities to incorporate. My way is certainly not "THE way". That is a great thing about slide, guitar & music in general (& the TGP) - there are a world of possibilities out there & we get to share about & learn about this unlimited universe as we go.

Frankenstrat2
10-16-2009, 01:51 PM
While I don't play with the pick, I am directing this towards people who are starting out playing slide. I have helped quite a few people learning slide and this is one of the things I see people struggle with the most.

Quite often I am not muting behind the slide for that exact reason. I also do the same thind with my picking hand, again for the same reason. There are very cool overtones that you get from doing this.

Of course there are no hard and fast rules, I'm talking about getting people started in the right direction.

I will not get into a pissing contest about what is right and what is wrong.



Doing your own thing and not listening to anyone else works for some people, but not for many people. Seriously, why should I second guess myself when offering solid advice? Muting is a neseccary technique for all sorts of guitar playing.

I'm a little surprised at the reaction to my suggestion to be honest.
No pissing contest here. Kimock and I have each chimed in on various conversations regarding slide- not always agreeing. But even for beginners, there are those who will lay down 'rules' or 'advise'-
ie.: you should get this brand guitar, use these pickups, buy this slide, raise your action exactly this much, use heavier strings, use your pinky, use your ring finger, ad nauseum.
For slide, as soon as someone says-"This is the way it should be done..." , there will be dissenting opinions. That's why I always say that the rule is...there are no rules.
Do I think muting is an important skill set for beginning slide? Absolutely.
Do I recommend higher action, heavier strings for beginners? yes, I do.
But what is most important is to do what works best for you.
Some slide guys actually prefer the Elmore James style, raw open slide tone, no muting. Others swear by light strings, more compression, less compression. Who do you listen to? Trust your ears and your taste.

Franklin
10-16-2009, 06:23 PM
I'm just too sensitive sometimes. Especially early in the morning at work... sorry! I actually believe in the "no rules" concept too.

There are tons of people players and listeners that enjoy the Elmore James style. I'm one of them and play like that a lot, though mostly at home.


Lots of people are digging the way you've been playing lap steel Steve, so you are obviously doing something right!! A couple of guys from my band are going down to your next Crazy Engine show at the Fairfield Theater Co, I really hope to make it.

kimock
10-17-2009, 02:23 AM
I'm just too sensitive sometimes. Especially early in the morning at work... sorry! I actually believe in the "no rules" concept too.

There are tons of people players and listeners that enjoy the Elmore James style. I'm one of them and play like that a lot, though mostly at home.


Lots of people are digging the way you've been playing lap steel Steve, so you are obviously doing something right!! A couple of guys from my band are going down to your next Crazy Engine show at the Fairfield Theater Co, I really hope to make it.

Hi Franklin, thanks for that lap steel comment, I appreciate the support, truly.

Anyway, I have a couple of observations about bottleneck technique from my own experience that I would like to share with you.
None of it has anything to do with rules of any kind, and none of it is meant to be in response to any previous post.
In the spirit of sharing, it's just some shop talk.

1. Re: Right hand muting and blocking, the muting requirements for slide playing in terms of physical technique are no different than those you would normally use. Same hand, same technique.

2. If the purpose of the muting is to Eliminate Unwanted Sounds, it would follow that the need for that kind of muting would be at its highest early in the learning curve.

3. The slide specific unwanted sounds are those pitches unintentionally carried on the other strings by the slide both at the position you're in and in the position you're sliding to.

4. The two big reasons you'll find yourself stopping more stuff than you're starting are: You're in the wrong position and/or you're in the wrong tuning.

5. If you're just getting started, you may find yourself in the wrong position and in the wrong tuning more frequently than you would hope.


So yeah, you need to mute. No matter that the unwanted sound is your own playing. Basically what's happening is your right hand is running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to clean up the mess that you're making with the left.

You can get real good at that, I did, but what goes missing are the means to intonation and the actual 'sliding around' part.
If you're accomplished with the muting techniques, but not the bar control, it'll always be a lot easier and make more sense to execute some moves by moving up or down scale steps to adjacent strings rather than to find the position or tuning the line lives in.

You can do that with muting for sure, but you're not sliding. . .

The impetus for an otherwise accomplished guitarist to approach the slide with that strategy or attitude is obvious and forgivable.

That's how you play the guitar!:D

With the current overemphasis on jazz methodology, particularly around here, it's entirely reasonable that any guitarist could begin to feel a sense of accomplishment when he or she could produce an uninterrupted stream of 8th notes while moving all four fingers across the fingerboard, one per fret, and weaving the length of the fingerboard playing any line in any fingering in any position etc.
That's considered ideal on some technical level anyway. That's understandable.

And it all pretty much goes out the window when you put on the glass.
The fretless ideal being an unbroken thread of sound. Up and down a single string, only one location for each pitch, no left hand fingers, one moveable fret etc.

So for me at least, the progression of the development of my right hand muting basically reflected my very gradual disassociation with the fretted 'uninterrupted' ideal, and the adoption of the fretless version of that same concept.

The more slide you play without disassociating yourself from that fretted technique model, the more muting you will have to do.
As you're able to get that 'frets and fingers' model out of your head, you'll do less muting.

Guitar and slide guitar are two different instruments.
If you're new to slide, watch your muting.
You have to do it anyway, but while you mute, pay attention to the possibility that the level at which you find it a necessary PITA may only be a measure of how invested you are in hanging on to your standard technique.


It started to open up a little for me after about thirty years. . .
:facepalm

peace

Franklin
10-17-2009, 07:36 AM
Something else I didn't consider before is that when I play out I use standard tuning 95% of the time. So I play slide in standard tuning, and you need to be more diligent about right hand muting because 1/2 the time you want/need the adjacent strings to be muted.

Playing slide finger-style and my muting technique is actually helping me be a cleaner "regular" player. I've got some strange condition that is causing me to become a sloppy player. It gets a little worse every year. I'll miss strings or accidentally hit one not wanted 4-5x a night. One day I thought I don't have that same problem playing slide (standard tuning) because I'm muting so much and using my thumb and index - ring fingers to pick. A much more controlled technique. Now when we play out I'll play w/o a pick about 60-70% of the time. I can't stop using one though, it's like a crutch. I can't play really fast or when I'm trying to emulate someone else's playing.

My back up guitar is always tuned to open E, but I don't use it often enough when we play out. We jam a lot so sometimes I'll pick it up to jam and in regards to playing slide it's like going from a moped (standard tuning) to a motorcycle (open tuning). It's amazing what you can do on open tuning compared to standard. I've been really working on open tuning now for about a year, I've only fooled around with it for @ 20 years! LOL!

I've got the key of E down all over the neck. All the corresponding harmonic chords; major, minor, dom7 related to the open E. I've got several scales/arpeggios down too. I'm working on diad/triad chord tones and substitutions now. I am able to play in any key, but I don't have the same level of chops or fluidity as I do with E.

Hoping for some Stella Blue on the lap steel next month! :aok That's one of my all time Jerry tunes. I have not seen you play it live before.

9fingers
10-17-2009, 10:26 AM
"Guitar and slide guitar are two different instruments."

Thank you so much for putting into words what I have felt for years Steve! To me slide guitar is ABOUT sliding. So many very "accomplished" slide players do their best (& they are very good at it) to elliminate the sliding & ovetones & make the slide a precise vehicle for single notes. (to make it sound less like like "slide").
The "old blues guys" did not mute at all. You can hear the reverse notes (between the slide & the nut) in every note with some of them. I love that stuff- that is what makes my neck hairs stand up whern I hear a slide.
Playing slide very loud or with a lot of gain does change the game somewhat & I think that is where some of the modern muting school comes from. I have personally found it more interesting to clean up my slide tone somewhat, enabling me to keep more strings & overtones going without things getting too nuts.
All open tunings for me on slide. Yes, Franklin, I see why you would do more muting in standard.
All this is just personal preference for me, not a prescription for anyone else of course.
Steve, what available recordings are you playing slide stuff on?

Franklin
10-17-2009, 10:39 AM
I think the same way about playing acoustic too. Acoustic is different, then different again with the slide and w/o.

Do you ever play the open tunings on acoustics @ a pick 9fingers? Isn't that awesome too? The possibilities are endless! :)

Frankenstrat2
10-17-2009, 02:37 PM
Hi Franklin, thanks for that lap steel comment, I appreciate the support, truly.

Anyway, I have a couple of observations about bottleneck technique from my own experience that I would like to share with you.
None of it has anything to do with rules of any kind, and none of it is meant to be in response to any previous post.
In the spirit of sharing, it's just some shop talk.

1. Re: Right hand muting and blocking, the muting requirements for slide playing in terms of physical technique are no different than those you would normally use. Same hand, same technique.

2. If the purpose of the muting is to Eliminate Unwanted Sounds, it would follow that the need for that kind of muting would be at its highest early in the learning curve.

3. The slide specific unwanted sounds are those pitches unintentionally carried on the other strings by the slide both at the position you're in and in the position you're sliding to.

4. The two big reasons you'll find yourself stopping more stuff than you're starting are: You're in the wrong position and/or you're in the wrong tuning.

5. If you're just getting started, you may find yourself in the wrong position and in the wrong tuning more frequently than you would hope.


So yeah, you need to mute. No matter that the unwanted sound is your own playing. Basically what's happening is your right hand is running around like a chicken with its head cut off trying to clean up the mess that you're making with the left.

You can get real good at that, I did, but what goes missing are the means to intonation and the actual 'sliding around' part.
If you're accomplished with the muting techniques, but not the bar control, it'll always be a lot easier and make more sense to execute some moves by moving up or down scale steps to adjacent strings rather than to find the position or tuning the line lives in.

You can do that with muting for sure, but you're not sliding. . .

The impetus for an otherwise accomplished guitarist to approach the slide with that strategy or attitude is obvious and forgivable.

That's how you play the guitar!:D

With the current overemphasis on jazz methodology, particularly around here, it's entirely reasonable that any guitarist could begin to feel a sense of accomplishment when he or she could produce an uninterrupted stream of 8th notes while moving all four fingers across the fingerboard, one per fret, and weaving the length of the fingerboard playing any line in any fingering in any position etc.
That's considered ideal on some technical level anyway. That's understandable.

And it all pretty much goes out the window when you put on the glass.
The fretless ideal being an unbroken thread of sound. Up and down a single string, only one location for each pitch, no left hand fingers, one moveable fret etc.

So for me at least, the progression of the development of my right hand muting basically reflected my very gradual disassociation with the fretted 'uninterrupted' ideal, and the adoption of the fretless version of that same concept.

The more slide you play without disassociating yourself from that fretted technique model, the more muting you will have to do.
As you're able to get that 'frets and fingers' model out of your head, you'll do less muting.

Guitar and slide guitar are two different instruments.
If you're new to slide, watch your muting.
You have to do it anyway, but while you mute, pay attention to the possibility that the level at which you find it a necessary PITA may only be a measure of how invested you are in hanging on to your standard technique.


It started to open up a little for me after about thirty years. . .
:facepalm

peace
Wonderful post Steve. Its stuff like this that makes the TGP community so valuable to players of every level.
And FWIW, I agree with you completely. :aok

kimock
10-17-2009, 10:15 PM
I think the same way about playing acoustic too. Acoustic is different, then different again with the slide and w/o.

Do you ever play the open tunings on acoustics @ a pick 9fingers? Isn't that awesome too? The possibilities are endless! :)

Speaking of endless possibilities, I just got back from the Phila. Debashish Bhattacharya concert.
Dude kicked my ass so hard and with so much love for the instrument and the music and the people present that I think it's time for me to crawl back into my hole and practice for a couple more years. . . .

peace out

LocustXReign
10-17-2009, 11:40 PM
I've gotten very into slide playing in the last 6 months to a year, and I feel I'm starting to get a good grasp of it finally. Here's a clip of me recording a solo break for my bands EP. I'm starting to get into some of the behind the bar techniques lately.

For the gear being used, its a mid 80s tokai tst-62 with 3 gibson p-90s going through a reissue deluxe reverb. It's strung up with 11's and has a pretty high action, but I can still fret and bend with it, just not TOO athletically. The guitar is in open G, and the capo makes my life hard haha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CbkpVcp2m10&feature=player_embedded

-DB

Franklin
10-18-2009, 03:05 PM
Nice job Locust!! I love p9os and DRRIs too.

Great post back there Steve! Off to check out Debashish Bhattacharya on the interwebs.... thanks for the reminder on him! I've got to see him live!!!! :)

Franklin
10-18-2009, 03:09 PM
12th to 16th October, Workshop, Hartford, CT, USA

***Raga Music Workshop with Pt. Debashish Bhattacharya
In Hartford, CT, USA. Workshop details (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:popupa1%288,170%29)

:cry:

I'm always a day late.

LocustXReign
10-18-2009, 05:06 PM
Nice job Locust!! I love p9os and DRRIs too.

Great post back there Steve! Off to check out Debashish Bhattacharya on the interwebs.... thanks for the reminder on him! I've got to see him live!!!! :)

Thanks!

I am very impressed with this amp. I think i need to find what sounds JUST like it at a useful stage volume.

Frankenstrat2
11-18-2009, 01:54 PM
BTT

trisonic
11-22-2009, 03:16 AM
BTT
Quite. Good thread.
And more on Lap Steel specifics.
Tuning options and why?

Where do you guys get very heavy string sets from?

Best, Pete.

Chris Rice
11-22-2009, 06:11 AM
I have my Regal Hawaiian tuned to Cindy Cashdollar's C6 tuning and love it.
I buy individual strings locally to make sets.

C6th
G E C A G E
10 14 18 24 26 34

http://www.cindycashdollar.com/tunings/

trisonic
11-22-2009, 09:19 AM
I use C6 at present too (I'm a beginner on Lap) - it's hard to go wrong.

I'm toying with dropped D for rock stuff.
Chris, thanks for that link! Great!

Best, Pete.

Seniorspike
11-22-2009, 01:02 PM
Thnx 4 bumps. Been playing guitar for many years (but not real well,) and have been on and off trying to pick up slide. But during the last year and a half have made some real progress. The first hurdle was dedicating one of my now only three guitars for slide. I thinned the herd down to a Suhr S, an R9, and a CS DC Junior. Both the Gibby's make a great candidate but I am using the Junior in open G now, strung with 12's. I started to get back into it on the Suhr in standard, and finger picking. But with the Junior in G I've gone back to the pick and fingers. Muting has been pretty easy (when desired) with the wrap-around bridge. The only drawback is that my finger picking/muting hasn't been getting much practice. But I figure since I'm making progress this way, learning more & gaining confidence, so be it , I'll get back to finger style later. It just doesn't feel right with 12's in open G. Another hurdle I've cleared this week is to be comfortable playing thru my Alessandro B&T as it's got such a fast response (sustain no probs!) But that's probably a subject for another thread. Anyway, keep up the bumps, I'll check in later. Rick

Frankenstrat2
11-22-2009, 05:44 PM
Quite. Good thread.
And more on Lap Steel specifics.
Tuning options and why?

Where do you guys get very heavy string sets from?

Best, Pete.
Oh Ho Mate! You got your lapster, eh?
Its another world from bottleneck slide- probably worthy or its own thread, but I'm not the guy to start it. I'm a rank amateur at lap steel, and haven't dedicated as much time as it deserves.
When it comes to custom gauged sets, our good friend Dean Farley at Snake Oil Strings will be happy to oblige. He's done all of mine, and he probably remembers the gauges or has them written down somewhere. You really only need one set because his strings seem to last forever, particularly on a lap steel.
I also like the western swing C6 tuning alot and its good for blues too. Cindy Cashdollar has some good videos out on CD if you're interested.
barry

trisonic
11-23-2009, 09:27 AM
Oh Ho Mate! You got your lapster, eh?
Its another world from bottleneck slide- probably worthy or its own thread, but I'm not the guy to start it. I'm a rank amateur at lap steel, and haven't dedicated as much time as it deserves.
When it comes to custom gauged sets, our good friend Dean Farley at Snake Oil Strings will be happy to oblige. He's done all of mine, and he probably remembers the gauges or has them written down somewhere. You really only need one set because his strings seem to last forever, particularly on a lap steel.
I also like the western swing C6 tuning alot and its good for blues too. Cindy Cashdollar has some good videos out on CD if you're interested.
barry
Yep. I just found Cindy's website - has some cool info too.
My Pettingill 6 string, short scale came loaded with 15-36 for C6. I think my ham fisted playing needs heavier strings (I'm having a hard time finding the E Blues scale in C6.........!) although it is very rich and lush sounding and C6 is a good sounding tuning.
I'll email you later, Baz - feeling better?

Best, Pete.

Marble
11-25-2009, 02:47 PM
Great thread, lots of useful info for all types of players. I'm proud to be an advanced slide guitarist. I attribute that to my dad giving me a slide and letting me go off with it on my own when I first started playing at 12. I started out playing with a thin glass slide with a guitar on my lap and a pick in my hand. Once I got a coricidin bottle, stuck it on my ring finger and dropped the pick, my technique improved immensely. That and listening to Duane Allman religiously from 13 onward...lol Obviously the Duane/Derek school isn't for everyone, but for ultimate control you need to use the ring finger! I understand people using their pinky, and there are alot of great players who do so, but the point of playing slide is to play slide! If you have to sacrifice certain notes in chord shapes for rhythm, then so be it. That's just my personal opinion though.

I'd like to comment on a couple of things: First the use of compression. I don't use a compressor pedal, but my distorted tone for lead and slide playing is tied in with natural tube compression. I didn't realize that until pretty recently when I was recording some songs with a notable engineer. We were talking about analog vs digital and some stuff like that...I had asked one of the keyboard players for the session to just bring his D6 clav and leave his Nord at home...anyway the engineer said "if you're such a purist why are you using all those effects?" I told him I didn't have any hooked up, just a Maestro phase shifter off to the side that I decided not to use. "You've got alot of compression and dirt there" It was just from a nice Blues Jr sitting in the studio compressing pretty nicely. I didn't realize it but I sort of do rely on compression to help my tone. I think alot of great players do too though, by way of their amps.

I think a good comparison of slide tones with and without compression is Duane's tones on Fillmore East and the Layla albums. On FE the tone is godlike, a cranked 50w Marshall balls to the wall. On Layla (take Anyday & Key to the Highway for example) the tone is thinner. Great playing but it doesn't sustain the same way, and that is of course to be expected. Not only is there a lack of distortion, but a lack of compression. Still great playing and both are awesome, but compression can add that shine to make your playing really stand out. Forgive me if this analysis is erroneous.

Lastly a cool technique I picked up from a great slide player, Pedro Arevalo, sometime back. I'm not sure where he got it from, but him and I both use open-E for slide. He was doing some cool minor chording, with the slide, and at that time I was having trouble adapting to minor keys. He would bar the chord, so it would naturally be a major, but press down hard on the G# string behind the slide so that it would fret the minor 3rd of the chord the slide was barring. I thought it was pretty cool and clever. It works better for him because he uses higher action, and I use the same guitar for lead and slide so I have less leeway between the slide and the fret.

Anyway, slide is great and a very rewarding ability to have! Keep at it if you're having trouble, it pays off.

trisonic
11-25-2009, 03:14 PM
It's good to hear confidence - when I was 19 I wasn't sure of anything. Only what people told me......

Put up some of your recordings for us to listen to wllya?

Best, Pete.

Marble
11-25-2009, 03:54 PM
It's good to hear confidence - when I was 19 I wasn't sure of anything. Only what people told me......

Put up some of your recordings for us to listen to wllya?

Best, Pete.

Well I get some compliments about my playing, so that's where most of the confidence comes from. Sharing the stage with great musicians helps build that confidence as well.

Myspace.com/Marblegarden (http://www.myspace.com/marblegarden) There are 2 specific tunes where my playing really shines: The track "Castform", it starts out like a Prog tune, but it goes to a slower 12/8 section and I take a slide solo that I am very proud of. It might have been 1 take, and thats standard tuning with a stock Epiphone '56 resissue Les Paul into my modified Bassman. There was some tape echo or plate reverb added in post. This is from December 2008.

Second one to check out is a live track called "Moon Shuffle". This is in open-E and the band was really cooking especially for this being our opening tune. I have two blazing slide solos in this tune. Near the end the tempo is slower and I take another slide solo that I couldn't believe I pulled off, it just flowed. Thats from March 2008. Both the tunes are originals.

In a week or so I'm going to upload a track from that session I mentioned above which is from August this year. Sorry if its TMI but I figure you might want some details.

trisonic
11-25-2009, 04:10 PM
Castform is very nice. I really enjoyed it.
I'm trying to think who you remind me of from my time at Decca in the late sixties.......
Good job!

Best, Pete.

Marble
11-25-2009, 11:04 PM
Castform is very nice. I really enjoyed it.
I'm trying to think who you remind me of from my time at Decca in the late sixties.......
Good job!

Best, Pete.


Thanks, I appreciate you listening.

I was going back through some recent posts again. Here's a link to some pedal and lap steel string sets. They have different sets for different tunings. http://pedalsteelmusic.com/strings.html

As mentioned above, lap steel is a totally different beast really. I have a cheap little lap steel I got just because it was cheap and I'm pretty sloppy with it. There are some great benefits with it though, like behind the bar pulls to simulate pedals, and bar slants. Slants are pretty hard with bottleneck and usually aren't vital since you can still fret alot of stuff, but they can be useful and cool when used right.

Personally I like to put the heaviest strings I can find on my lap steel. For example a .017 for the high E and a .060 for the low E in Open-E. Behind the bar bends are much easier with tighter strings IMO, as well as lending to a thicker tone.

trisonic
11-26-2009, 03:33 AM
Thanks for the info. I refuse to use PayPal for any transaction - which effectively cuts out that site.......
Good luck for your future career!
Best, Pete.

Franklin
11-26-2009, 06:59 AM
Nice playing Marble. I too don't use a compression pedal, but am wanting to not be so dependent on gain and pushing the amp for compression. I use a treble boost or my Zendrive for slide and try not to be too distorted, but it's hard when your pushing your amp too.

Here's an example of what I mean, the clean tone is kinda thin and the loud parts are a little too distorted. I was using the wrong OD pedal. -"Ain't Wastin' Time":

http://www.archive.org/download/cs2009-10-03.ftu8r.R09.mtx.flac16/cs2009-10-03t20_vbr.mp3

The slide solo is @ 2:30
The hissing sound you hear is rain!

ikan
11-26-2009, 07:06 AM
I wonder which/what slide The Edge of U2 currently using. It's about half size shorter than the standard slides. Anyone?

Jason Lynn
11-26-2009, 08:29 AM
Here's an example of what I mean, the clean tone is kinda thin and the loud parts are a little too distorted. I was using the wrong OD pedal. -"Ain't Wastin' Time":

http://www.archive.org/download/cs2009-10-03.ftu8r.R09.mtx.flac16/cs2009-10-03t20_vbr.mp3

The slide solo is @ 2:30
The hissing sound you hear is rain!

The distorted parts sound fine to me. Are you using the treble booster during the clean parts? I agree with you on the clean parts....a comp might do the trick.

I hardly ever play that clean w/ slide. I use a tweed deluxe live and it's feisty by nature. I'm having good success using my volume pedal to ride/control the dynamics. I do use a compressor some nights but the volume pedal is a must in my rig now (on lap steel)

Franklin
11-26-2009, 09:29 AM
Hey swampthing, in the beginning of the tune I did use the treble boost. That's when it was sounding thin, but that was with the vol knob rolled back. I switched to the Purple Nurple OD to get some compression, but when I cranked it up the gain was too much.

A great pedal to use with slide is a germanium fuzz pedal w/ the volume knob on the guitar rolled back. Awesome!

kimock
11-26-2009, 09:41 AM
Hey swampthing, in the beginning of the tune I did use the treble boost. That's when it was sounding thin, but that was with the vol knob rolled back. I switched to the Purple Nurple OD to get some compression, but when I cranked it up the gain was too much.

A great pedal to use with slide is a germanium fuzz pedal w/ the volume knob on the guitar rolled back. Awesome!


+1 on the germanium fuzz for slide, I'm always surprised how natural that sounds with my lap steel. (Old Vox Tone Bender and Supro lap steel.) Roll it back a little and it's just right. . .
Have a great Thanksgiving!

Jason Lynn
11-26-2009, 10:01 AM
Are you guys rolling back the fuzz so that's it's running 'clean' or still keeping the fuzz on it a little? I've got a sunface that cleans up real quick when you roll back, sounds great...but never tried it for slide. It's on my old pedalboard I haven't used in ages. I just remember that pedal not sounding so great into my tweed deluxe...but I was using a guitar w/ no slide. Hmmmm.

kimock
11-26-2009, 11:39 AM
Are you guys rolling back the fuzz so that's it's running 'clean' or still keeping the fuzz on it a little? I've got a sunface that cleans up real quick when you roll back, sounds great...but never tried it for slide. It's on my old pedalboard I haven't used in ages. I just remember that pedal not sounding so great into my tweed deluxe...but I was using a guitar w/ no slide. Hmmmm.

Both for me, cleanish and fuzzy. This is a hard one to say anything too definitive about, the performance of the germanium fuzz thing being all over the map, pedal to pedal and night to night with the same pedal, but just generally my steel and the G-fuzz is a more natural less fizzy sound than the same pedal with my Strat.

I'm not trying to tell you what you're gonna hear, but when I play my guitar without the slide, I get a pretty different response from the whole instrument when that string contacts the fret and the neck and fingerboard come to the party.
With the slide, the string termination just kind of floats relative to what I hear from the fret, and the low end and whatever envelope I had without the slide are pretty different.

For whatever reason for me, that plays to the strength of the germanium fuzz sound, with the different attack and sustain and bandwidth you get from the slide relative to the fret.
So yeah, revisit that fuzz box for the slide, it might be happier in that application than with the fretted guitar.
You should try it with something other than the tweed Deluxe too, my best results with the Vox Tone Bender and steel/slide have been with medium or higher powered cleanish amps.

peace

Jason Lynn
11-26-2009, 12:08 PM
"all over the map every night" was kind of the deal killer for me last time I used that sunface...even with the bias control. Yeah, I'll have to revisit it in my studio. For live my combination of Cole Clark Violap into tweed deluxe is pretty magical (IMHO). Volume is always an issue w/ the gigs I play - the bar is the size of your common living room. At times even my 12 watter is too loud.

kimock
11-26-2009, 12:25 PM
"all over the map every night" was kind of the deal killer for me last time I used that sunface...even with the bias control. Yeah, I'll have to revisit it in my studio. For live my combination of Cole Clark Violap into tweed deluxe is pretty magical (IMHO). Volume is always an issue w/ the gigs I play - the bar is the size of your common living room. At times even my 12 watter is too loud.

The all over the map thing is heat and batteries. You can't let those transistors get hot, and you need to use the zinc-carbon batteries which tend to sound different as they drain.
I keep the Vox on ice before summer shows, carry lots of heavy duty spares etc.
Count your blessings with that small room, lots more options for good sounds if you don't have to have to put loud first.

Jason Lynn
11-26-2009, 02:14 PM
The all over the map thing is heat and batteries. You can't let those transistors get hot, and you need to use the zinc-carbon batteries which tend to sound different as they drain.
I keep the Vox on ice before summer shows, carry lots of heavy duty spares etc.
Count your blessings with that small room, lots more options for good sounds if you don't have to have to put loud first.

Yep, I know about the heat issues. It's why I plan to use a silicon fuzz on my next guitar rig pedalboard.

Small room lower volume is great...it's just amazing how limited in which amps I can use there since I normally like my gain from a pushed amp. Going to try adding my Tim to the chain to bring back some grit for the next gig. In the summer we play this gig outdoors so I'm still adjusting/tweaking for the room now we're inside.

Franklin
11-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I like the amp to be clean, but at the point of break up if you push it some. I dial back on my Sunface (nkt-275 version) fuzz all the way to clean, then turn it back up to the desired amount of grit. Then you get get a little more grit if you dig in and can adjust the volume knob on the fly. My Sunface has the bias knob, that helps with inconsistencies of the trannies from night to night.

I like the fuzz dialed all the way back to clean too and then stacking it into another pedal. It's a lot of fun!

Bruceman
11-29-2009, 11:18 PM
I emailed the owner of Big Heart Slides cause I saw he was only 40 miles from me here in So.Cal. Even tho he's primarily a mail order shop, he let me come over in order to try different slides. I have small weird fingers so it's been hard trying to find even one slide, let alone different types.

Well, this cat is way cool, and he's got a crap load of different materials, shapes, sizes, it was great. I was so jazzed I bought eight slides. Some ceramic, some glass, one monster polished bronze beast and sizes that fit two different fingers in case I can figure out later what I like best. Plus he gave me a very fair package deal.

If you're in the area (or not,)I highly recommend talking to him. Oh yeah, he plays great too.

Good luck.

Frankenstrat2
11-30-2009, 05:42 AM
I emailed the owner of Big Heart Slides cause I saw he was only 40 miles from me here in So.Cal. Even tho he's primarily a mail order shop, he let me come over in order to try different slides. I have small weird fingers so it's been hard trying to find even one slide, let alone different types.

Well, this cat is way cool, and he's got a crap load of different materials, shapes, sizes, it was great. I was so jazzed I bought eight slides. Some ceramic, some glass, one monster polished bronze beast and sizes that fit two different fingers in case I can figure out later what I like best. Plus he gave me a very fair package deal.

If you're in the area (or not,)I highly recommend talking to him. Oh yeah, he plays great too.

Good luck.
LOL!
That's my buddy Luther. Not only a great guy with a fantastic selection of slides, but an outstanding musician- guitar, piano, vocals. And his wife Gerry is a doll. Luther is in Anaheim and is the host with the most!
Big Heart Slides- highly recommended!!!
barry

Frankenstrat2
01-08-2010, 12:56 PM
I just noticed that this thread has accumulated over 12,000 views.
great to see there's consistently plenty of interest in slide here.
very cool!
b.

Jason Lynn
01-19-2010, 11:53 PM
...delete

Frankenstrat2
01-21-2010, 06:42 AM
Hey J-Bird!
I'm waiting to play your track until I can listen through something better than laptop speakers.
Meanwhile, I was hoping to get to Austin for the Amp Show in March, but it doesn't look too good for that trip at present. :(
best
barry

Jason Lynn
01-21-2010, 07:29 AM
Amp show in March? I didn't even know about it. Do you know the dates? March is my sons spring break so we're heading up to Colorado for the week. I hope the dates don't overlap!

Frankenstrat2
01-21-2010, 08:39 AM
LOL
March 6,7
http://www.ampshow.com/
Lots of my favorites and good friends will be there. Wish I could make it. I love Austin.
Good BBQ and blues!

Jason Lynn
01-21-2010, 08:45 AM
6&7...yeah I can make that I think. Though, more gear is the last thing I need.

Austin is awesome in March. Do tell if you come in. You need to see my studio.

Frankenstrat2
01-23-2010, 07:10 AM
I opened up the latest issue of Guitar World to learn that my teacher and mentor, Kirby Kelly won the finals of the Guitar Center King of the Blues competition.
Kirby is best known as a local legend in the Dallas area where he has been playing slide and lap guitar with Bugs Henderson and the Shuffle Kings for many years. Kirby also taught slide guitar seminars for NGW at several locations.
Those of us lucky enough to have met Kirby know him to be the most humble and sincere man, and one of the baddest slide guitarists on the planet. Apparently one of his friends entered him into the contest, which makes perfect sense, knowing Kirby. It wouldn't have been his style. But I guess once he was entered, he went through the process, and wowed the judges with his famous stunt of playing with two slides at one!- something I've seen close-up and will never forget! Don't think he's all flash and no substance- he also had to perform a solo acoustic number- something else Kirby excels at.
Its great to see his talent affirmed by a panel of his peers, and I'm sure Kirby will make good use of the cash and prizes. I'm thrilled for him, and just wanted to share my delight in seeing ole Kirb get the recognition he so well deserves.
barry
Heres a link
http://gc.guitarcenter.com/kingoftheblues/
and...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNrFu_p_ajY
iNrFu_p_ajY
I'm pretty sure that's his fretless strat.


__________________

thesjkexperienc
01-23-2010, 08:51 PM
Hi, I am starting the slide adventure and have a question about slide fit. I find I prefer the little finger for slide and since I also want to use standard tuning (like Rory), in addition to open tuning, I am using a 2" length. I have hands that are long and often dont fit in XL gloves, but my fingers are thin to the point a medium slide with a 11/16" interior wont stay on unless it is so far on (touching the webs of my hands) that I cant play standing up, or use my other fingers easily.

I think it feels best to have it stop on the second knuckle and is much easier to play that way. I do have an old steel 5/8" interior that fits ok. I do like the ceramic slides tone and am using a mudslide and moonshine right now. I also like the feel of the ceramic verses the metal both on my skin and on the strings.

Is there any problem with putting the slide only to the second knuckle if the slide is snug and I can move my hand easily? I dont want to get started with bad habits!

Thanks!

sharpshooter
01-23-2010, 10:58 PM
Well,,, the entire galaxy of all things connected with slide, is so subjective, and any possible combination of anything, will have it's staunchest supporters.
The general? thought, I suppose, is that what works for you, is what is great to find, when a certain combo of things gell, and focus for you.

thesjkexperienc
01-24-2010, 11:03 AM
Thanks for the pm sharpshooter. I will try and build up the insides to snug them up a bit. I did go and order smaller slides to see if that will work, but there is always the chance they could be too small as the ceramic slides can vary a bit from slide to slide.

I did work in open tuning last night with a longer Moonshine slide on Zep's In My Time Of Dying and it is coming along!

Frankenstrat2
01-24-2010, 11:37 AM
Hi, I am starting the slide adventure and have a question about slide fit. I find I prefer the little finger for slide and since I also want to use standard tuning (like Rory), in addition to open tuning, I am using a 2" length. I have hands that are long and often dont fit in XL gloves, but my fingers are thin to the point a medium slide with a 11/16" interior wont stay on unless it is so far on (touching the webs of my hands) that I cant play standing up, or use my other fingers easily.

I think it feels best to have it stop on the second knuckle and is much easier to play that way. I do have an old steel 5/8" interior that fits ok. I do like the ceramic slides tone and am using a mudslide and moonshine right now. I also like the feel of the ceramic verses the metal both on my skin and on the strings.

Is there any problem with putting the slide only to the second knuckle if the slide is snug and I can move my hand easily? I dont want to get started with bad habits!

Thanks!
i'm a big proponent of 'do what works for you" when it comes to slide. That said, pinky slide is probably the best choice if you are just starting out and comfortable with it, as it gives you more options for chord shapes and fingering with the non-slide encumbered fingers.
As far as finding a good fit, judging by your preferences, you might want to give a shout out to my buddy Luther at Big Heart Slides. Luther will fix you up with a huge selection of ceramic slides and help you get a perfect fit.
Luther Tatum <luther@bigheartslide.com>
best
barry

thesjkexperienc
01-25-2010, 09:17 PM
I put some strips of Gorilla tape in my 11/16" slides to firm them up a bit and what a difference! The slide feels like it is ON now and doesn't feel like it is going to fly off when I do chords. I am still hoping the small ones fit as the tape doesn't feel as nice or as absorbant as the ceramic. I think I really prefer the tone of the Mudslide the best.

I will contact Luther if the small ones I just ordered dont work. It is tough being in between sizes. It also looks like his Bonyfingers are similar material, or sound, as the Mudslide.

I alos have another question. When in open tuning do most of you have a guitar that is set up for flat string radius? Mine is set for about 9.5 to 10" and trying to do more than 3 strings with the slide isn't working well.

Jason Lynn
01-26-2010, 12:04 AM
Yeah a flatter radius def helps...it's that or raise the action on all of them.

I used to live in Boulder, the Fox is still one of the best places I've ever been to see a show. Played there twice...and that was just as great too :)