SURVEY: which amp ended up being your biggest disappointment?

[TRIODEROB]

which amp did you buy, thinking you were going to love it,
the reviews were great, the price was right, people on
the web sites were doing back flips over it.

you get it home, fire it up and think - oh CRAP!

ITS - NOT - THAT - GREAT


:mad:

[TRIODEROB]

for me it was a brown era fender princeton
got it off ebay ,thought i would love it,
just never could get into its tone
go figure

[SlipRake]

I didn't buy them, but brought them home to try. They weren't right for me.

VHT Pitbull - spongey and flabby.

Mesa MK IV or V (long time ago), not sure. Way too thick - cold molasses fudge all over the place. Great for mid thickness and texture, but, otherwise, unuseable for my style.

[Jimmydeez]

Originally posted by SlipRake
Mesa MK IV or V (long time ago), not sure. Way too thick - cold molasses fudge all over the place. Great for mid thickness and texture, but, otherwise, unuseable for my style.
+1

I also could not get a useable tone out of the 2nd channel without having the cleans go to s#!t.

[big mike]

Mesa MkIII ( I got a bummer one)
DSL Marshall, ( Actually I liked it for a while, but my taste changed)

[Randy]

Egnater IE4
Mesa Quad preamp
Bogner Ecstasy Classic

[Sean C]

Flagtech Guitron. The hype was amazing, but the tone just wasn't there.

[Kiwi]

Reverend Hellhound 1x12. Tinny, thin sound, even cranked. Three chords, and the truth emerged: I wasn't digging it.

Then pieces started breaking off: input jack, handle, and the reverb tank failed. I got it fixed up (and major props to Joe Naylor for standing behind the product) and bailed.

Kiwi

[Leonc]

Well the two amps I probably liked the least (in recent memory) were my Koch Multitone and Bogner Ecstacy Classic. In both cases...I just could NOT relate to the clean tone. In both cases the overdriven sounds weren't what I thought of as good enough to outweigh the lack of what I consdier a great clean.

[scottcw]

Mesa Boogie Mk. I

[Mark C]

Dr. Z Route 66. Not bad sounding, but I definately prefer a Marshall.

[loverocker]

Another vote for the Mesa MkIII here, and the Cornford Harlequin was a let down, too (though I never had it long enough to break the speaker in).

[jeffnmoe]

Dr. Z Prescription. Instantly bonded with every other Z I've owned or played, but the Rx has always left me as flat as a two day old Coke.

[stark]

My first amp, an old solid state Univox. I never could get a great tone out of it. Maybe it was the early sixties no name Japanese guitar that was the problem. I even got an old huge wooden TV cabinet with a 12" speaker in it to make a stack, but that didn't help.

Adam Stark

[Bartok55]

Mesa Studio 22 Caliber. I couldn't stand the cleans and couldn't use the gain.

[Ken]

Mesa Boogie Mark III

[pittster]

Mesa Subway Rocket reverb

[SuperReverb2]

Matchless Chieftain 2 x 12 with "their" Vintage 30's. Sounded VERY tight and constricted. The cleans were "OK," but for the life of me, I could NOT bond with the overdriven tone. Couldn't sell it fast enough. :confused:

Two-Rock Opal and Custom. GREAT sounding amps, but just not my cup of tea. Bonded with the tone (more or less) but just couldn't get my brain (or my hands for that matter) around the "feel." May try one again sometime in the future, but if I do, I will choose the speakers VERY carefully. Currently, Classic Lead 80's top my list.







:)

[57special]

Dr.Z Carmen Ghia. Just sounded ugly to me.

[v-verb]

Mesa Blue Angel.

A total piece of shit.

IMO of course:cool:

[Sam Evans]

Dr. Z Prescription. I tried two, and they both sounded flat to me.

Sam

[Ricker]

Originally posted by Mark C
Dr. Z Route 66. Not bad sounding, but I definately prefer a Marshall.

Another vote for the RT66

I bought one and sent it back 5 days later.
I mostly play my LP and it had this harsh midrange clank that I couldn't dial out.
As Mark C said it wasn't bad sounding......but it sounds the way it sounds and that's that.
It sounded better with a strat I found.

Anyway.........I swopped it out for a Bogner shiva..........and this happened all the way from USA to South Africa.........so if you guys think you've tried before you've buyed......you ain't done it on my scale..he he he

Rick

[tak]

Mesa Mark IV. I see a trend here. I think you just like Mesas or you don't. There doesn't seem to be much in between.

[dankayaker]

RT. 66
I've heard nice tones from other people but could not find anything remotely usable for me.

[tmac]

Every Dr. Z I've ever had:

MAZ 18, MAZ 38 Studio, Carmen Ghia, Rt. 66.

Carmen Ghia was pretty cool though.

I've heard other folks get nice sounds with 'em on recordings like the David Grissom 66 clips, Buddy W. on the J. Mayall 70th BD CD (I actually liked Mick Taylor's tones best on that CD).

Diff'nt strokes

[nek]

Marshall 50W SLX. It was a time and place kind of thing. Maybe I could go back to it now, 10 years later and get something useable out of it...
Naw, probably not.

[Dave LaP]

Mesa 50 Caliber-Man that amp sucked. Why I bought it in the first place after trying it out I'll never know. Frank Gambale got good tones out of his on an instructional video. I think that's why I bought one.

There is a definite trend with Mesa Amps here. Part of it may be that there ads are so juicy. They promise the moon and the stars and it's just hard to live up to. I remember my Mark 3.

The ads promised that channel 1 is like a clean Fender, Channel 2 is like a browned out Marshall, Channel 3 is pure boogie...Channel 1 sounded nothing like a clean Fender, Channel 2 sounded nothing like a Marshall. All three channels sounded exactly like a Boogie. I don't buy their bunk anymore although I did like my Blue Angel.

[psyandy]

My biggest disappointment was the Matchless Chieftan....with all the Matchless hype the only thing this amp did was create an environment that I could fry eggs on. My second most disappointing amp was the Bogner Ecstacy.....I just didn't get any tones out of that amp that I liked....it burned tubes like a race car burns tires....it sounded just flat out crappy to me......Oh well.....can't love em all.....


Andy

[lhallam]

Johnson modelling amp. I thought I could have everything in one box and not have to carry around effects, cords, etc.

It does have it's uses but the compressor on it is horrible and you can hear it pumping most of the time.

As and aside, you can get a whole lot of different sounds out of a MarkIII the problem to me is if you get a good clean sound the OD sounds bad and vice versa.

[ericb]

Amps were Budda SD30 combo, Fuchs-modded Bassman, and Egnater/Rocktron IE4 preamp and Tophat Club Royale II... All were ok ,but nothing better than anything I had and nothing compared to my expectations formed from reading others' opinions...

Pedals... hmm.... 1st biggest letdown was Mjm London Fuzz when they 1st came out and after reading rave after rave... nah! I did recently get an MJM Roctavios and that's great though!

ERIC

[Slick51]

A couple of amps come to mind...

TopHat Vibra-Trem...got it at a great price, and they were tres cool net darlings...but a dark, buzzy little thing to me. The tremolo throbbed even when it was off, and it was just lost in the mix.

Mesa Blue Angel 4-10...another one I bought at about half the going rate, in mint condition. Retubed it with NOS, tried it w/ buckers and single coils, tried the EL84s, 6V6s, both, put pedals in the loop. No Go. I guess I have owned too many Fenders to go for a pseudo-Fender.

JMHO, YMMV
Slick51

[aroman]

Reverend Hellhound- "Fender Tweed + Vintage Marshall Tones" as per Reviews. I was expecting Angus Young. It might be a GREAT Amp but there is no Marshall Plexi in there.

[tonemandan]

Line 6 Axcess ( sp? )

Fun to play around with at bedroom volumes. Took it to a gig and HATED it. No more modeling amps for tonemandan.....

Dan

[shallbe]

Red Knob Twin. Flat, lifeless, poorly constructed. I found a mod to make it sound better, but not good enough.

[Blueser]

Fargen Epic 30!!!!

Dark cleans, noisy and weak reverb, and the worst master volume implementation I have ever experienced (though it did rock when you turned it way up)! Ben was great to deal with, but the amp was a complete and utter disappointment!

I took a bath on that one, and vowed that I would never buy another custom made amp without getting to try one again.

B

[Dr Rico]

Gallien-Krueger 210G. Sold my '60s Ampeg Reverb-o-rocket and a great '70 ali panel JMP50 to get the scratch together for it.

Channel switching!

"Contour" control for the REAL SS DISTORTION circuit!

What a boat anchor...I was so poor I was stuck with that wad for years. Played 1000 shows at least on that thing and cringed the whole time. Missed my Marshall the whole time...

...though this was in the 70s-80s and I've long since learned my lesson. Not one dog since.

[Jon Silberman]

THD UniValve.

It sure sounds good when Ed plays his but I couldn't make it work for me.

By the way - big Hellhound fan. But I agree, it ain't no Plexi and never will be, don't ever buy one for that reason. (To the guy who called his "thin," wow, that's the last word I'd apply to mine, if anything, it's got too much fullness for those of us who live primarily in the scooped BF zone.)

[uncle looie]

Just one... a Kendrick Black-Gold 35. It sounded great for about 2 or 3 days and then everything started to go wrong with it. The tone was good until I took it out on the road and then one thing after another crapped out on it from the first gig on. Thank God I had a backup amp.

[RevolutionMan]

Line 6 axis 2x12 (hope I got the name right)

Sounded so cool in the store, I really disliked it within a month.

[v-verb]

Originally posted by Lou V
biggest dissapointment was the /13 ert 33....lovely cleans and reverb, and the harshest, brightest lead channel I've ever experienced.

Never thought I'd see a less than stellar review of a divided by 13!!

Cheers

Nigel

[Rock Fella]

Mesa Boogie Mark 1 Reissue ...............what a pile of shit :mad:

weighed a tonne , couldnt use bass higher than 2 or it farted out like crazy , gain was horrid sounding and to make it sustain your ears needed to be bleeding from extreme volume.

there seems to be a mesa pattern developing here, i think they blow and id never consider buying another.

[wichita]

Sam Evans
smarter than a monkey

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 562
Dr. Z Prescription. I tried two, and they both sounded flat to me.

Sam



Double DITO. Glad you said it first...maybe I won't get hate mail over this now...


I knew that Lou would have to come up with some D13 thing....If It disspointed you that it didn't change the way you play or cook you waffles or something then maybe I could see that....you seem to be the only one that didn't like it a lot but everybody has their own thing....Lou in all seriousness what amps lead tone is your fave??

[Tag]

Originally posted by tak
Mesa Mark IV. I see a trend here. I think you just like Mesas or you don't. There doesn't seem to be much in between.


MK IV was mine too. I kept it a LONG time though, and made some good recordings with it. The MK III I think is far better.

[wichita]

Tag,
What differences did you notice between the 2 and 3? My only experience with Boogie's was the really early mark 1's.

[big mike]

Originally posted by Tag
MK IV was mine too. I kept it a LONG time though, and made some good recordings with it. The MK III I think is far better.

Depends on the III. Mine was the biggest tempermental bitch I ever owned.

[Rock Fella]

as i could see

mesa = constant knob twiddling and frustration

[Tag]

Originally posted by wichita
Tag,
What differences did you notice between the 2 and 3? My only experience with Boogie's was the really early mark 1's.


My MK III is the red striped one, and has TONS of gain the the middle channel. This allows you to run channel ones volume lower, and get a good clean in 1, a great bluesy and even searing lead in channel 2, (enough gain for even metal in channel 2!) and channel three is off the charts. I have the model with the 6 power tubes, and its so loud, it will stun you. The MV works great though, and you can get greta tones even at pretty low levels. A VERY cool Mesa amp! IMO, it KILLED my mk IV which channel 2 was useless, and channel 3 still could have used more gain.

[Tag]

Originally posted by Rock Fella
as i could see

mesa = constant knob twiddling and frustration

Lol! Yes, but once you get it right (10 minutes maybe), the tones are excellent imo.

[JonF]

Mesa DC-3...

I found it very muddy and farty with my Les Paul and ice picky with my Strat.

[aeolian]

Originally posted by Tag
Lol! Yes, but once you get it right (10 minutes maybe), the tones are excellent imo.

But what happens when you put in the car and then take it out again, everything has gotten bumped just enough that it takes twiddling through the first five songs just to get close again. :D

My MkIII was less sensitive in this respect than the IIC+ which was the most tempermental amp I've ever had. When she wanted to play, she was everything the legend promised. But...:(

The one I hated was the 90's MiniBrute I bought to replace the first generation one that got stolen. I've been though a few since then and it seems that they kept adding knobs and making it worse every few years.

[gitarzilla]

Route 66 -- I thought it sounded so bad when I got it that it was broken, so I sent it back to Dr Z to be retubed, biased, brought up to current spec and just gone over in general. When I got it back there was a slight improvement, but I couldn't for the life of me figure out what all the fuss was about that amp -- I found it to be muddy, have little to no high end detail, no sustain, no ballz -- couldn't sell that amp fast enough. Felt pretty much the same about the Carmen Ghia.

I've also got to agree with the Mesa Blue Angel posts. Couldn't get on with that amp at all. I did however, have a Mark III simul-class combo that I really liked at one point. Sold it, regreted it and tried to find another. Ended up with a long chassis Mark III head that was terrible, not even in the ballpark (hell, not even in the ballpark's parking lot) with the first combo I had. Oh well...

I've been pretty happy with my Alessandros, Top Hats, Two Rocks and vintage Fenders.

[bullfrogblues]

The Fender Hot Rod Deluxe I bought. My only description will be:
It Sucked.

Allan.

[Chuck Snider]

Late 70s, before the net...
got all my scratch together for a Music Man HD130. every body was ranting about how cool these were.. sounded aweful to me cranked (couldn't crank it in the store) had it for two rehearsals and put it in the paper for sale..

The cool part is the same day it went in the paper ,a guy called me and offered to trade me straight up for a 73 Superlead head&slant cab , then immaculate.The cab was stolen in 1980. That was always my main amp till I got my Route 66 in 99.....

So I guess the HD130 was good for me as far as getting the superlead goes:D

[wichita]

The biggest disappointment (and entirely my fault) was falling for the hype and expecting the amp to sound somewhat like your clips. Lance, your lead clips of that amp sound fantastic, and they also sound nothing like the amp. I would guess those clips of the ert33 lead tone were probably done with an OD pedal (actually a certain boutique fender repro builder confirmed the use of a pedal), an attenuator, the tone control completely rolled off, or some very good mic'ing techniques as those clips clearly do not show the huge amounts of high end and harsh mids the lead channel has. fwiw, Jeff's clips were very true to the tone of the amp, maybe he will post them!

Gee Lou, Im glad you liked the clips, but as I have stated before many times all of those clips were done with the amp without any external gain pedal at all. Both the 33 and the 37 clips were done guitar, cable, amp, mic'd into Pro tools with a bit of verb and delay.

My lead clips sound exactly like the amp. I have heard a lot of guys play through the 37 and sound very similar. That amp has a very distinct thing going and I get that sound without a single pedal. You are quite misinformed.

I do own and use some pedals, but those clips were not gain pedal clips..

[Distortion]

I have owned both the 33 and the 37, but recently sold my 33.. I did not sell it because it did not have amazing tone. I sold it because I just had too many amps.. and of all the amps I have sold, I miss the 33 most of all..
I have a couple of friends who are studio players that have played both of my /13's and they both were blown away with the sound of the 33.. In my opinion the only time the 33 didn't sound stellar is when the volume was too low.. But crank that puppy up and magic poured out..
Lou, I wonder if your particular amp had a problem?

[Leonc]

Originally posted by Chuck Snider
So I guess the HD130 was good for me as far as getting the superlead goes:D

Ha! Cool story Chuck!!

[Chuck Snider]

Originally posted by Leonc
Ha! Cool story Chuck!!


Yea,
I felt like I won a raffel/contest or something!

[Bearded]

Dr Z 6545. I really wanted to love this amp, but the cleans didn't really do anything for me, and the crunch was too compressed, and I really couldn't get a good sound out of it.

I traded it for an Aiken Mk I Invader which I then traded. I should've kept that Aiken, as I haven't heard a better crunch tone since.

I had the same problem with the Rt 66. Different tone than the 6545, but still not one I could dig.

All that being said, my Carmen Ghia is still the greatest thing ever. :D

Joe

[tiptone]

Dual Rectifier (or RectumFinder or RectumFire if you must). bought it and a mesa 4x12 slant, bought it to hang with the other guitar player's 50watt Marshall. i _hated_ the clean channel, hardly ever used it without some sort of effect i hated it so much. second channel did have plenty of gain, but i don't miss it a bit.

[VaughnC]

I tried a couple of Two Rock amps and just didn't "get" what the amps were trying to do. They sorta sounded tonally flat & felt lifeless to me. Wrong amp for the wrong guy, I'm sure....they just didn't "fit".

[Riscchip]

Dumble ODS, Trainwreck Express, Marshall JTM45.



:p




But seriously. The Fender Pro Jr. is the only amp I've ever owned that was just flat out lousy, and I wasn't that bummed because it was just $200. Not a huge bummer.

[wichita]

Exactly....nothing was wrong with the amp Lou.

[Deaj]

Originally posted by shallbe
Red Knob Twin. Flat, lifeless, poorly constructed. I found a mod to make it sound better, but not good enough.

+1 for the 'red knob' Twin. That was a terrible amp. Always disappeared in the mix but considering how it sounded when you could hear it this was probably one of it's better qualities :rolleyes:

[LordRiffenstein]

Brunetti 059, killer cleans and awesome fat lead channel but the crunch was totally nasal and you couldn´t dial it out. Killer looks though!

Diezel VH4, really liked it with some reservations untill I took it to rehearsals/gigs and it disappeared in the mix and sounded boomy and muddy. Tried different tubes, had it modded but it still wouldn´t compare to my Engl. I became VERY frustrated with the amp and after I made the quick decision to sell it, I couldn´t get rid of it fast enough. Bottom line, not my thing AT ALL.

[charley]

Definitely will never miss my old Mesa Nomad 100. Who really needs 100 watts anyways? Noisy as hell, too damn loud for any situation, and very unreliable.

I now play a Two rock, which I will never NOT love. Took me a while to come to this decision, but no other amp seems to compare anyomore.

On a side note, I played some new mesas today when I was at the guitar shop. I was really impressed with the clean channel on the F30. Best I have ever heard for Mesa. The gain channel was only so-so.

I agree with everyone else on the Mark 1 REISSUE and Blue Angel........total crap.

But, I do remember playing a 2X12 Maverick a couple months ago and liking it.

[wichita]

Lou, you are a funny guy....:)

D13 players list and clients

Billy F. Gibbons (ZZ Top)
Jackson Browne
Timothy B. Schmit (Eagles)
*Rusty Anderson (Elton John, Paul McCartney)
*Joel Shearer (Alanis Morissette, Ben Taylor, Pedestrian, Writer, Sessions)
*Nick Lashley (Alanis Morissette, Jagger, Michelle Branch, Lisa Marie Presley, Sessions)
*Jason Orme (Alanis Morissette)
*Scott Thurston (Tom Petty, guitar)
Dave Mason (Traffic, etc.)
John Taylor (Duran Duran)
Jon Brion (Producer, Writer)
Dave Davies (Kinks)
Mike Ness (Social D)
Paul D'Amour (Tool)
Tracy Chapman
Nils Kline
Ray Benson (Asleep at the Wheel)
Al Anderson (Lauryn Hill)
Dave Grohl (Foo Fighters)
Tommy Luya (Cypress Hill)
Dan Vickrey (Counting Crows)
*Jon Nichols (Beth Hart)
*Peter McCabe (Producer)
*Richard Bredice (Producer)
*George Lynch (Lynch Mob, Producer, Artist)
*Mike Chapman (Tom Petty)
*Yogi Lunich (Buch Cherry, Wallflowers)
*Brian Ray (Paul McCartney, Sessions)
*Mike Lockwood (Aime Mann, Lisa Marie Presley, Producer, Player, Writer, Sessions)
Smokey Hormel (Beck, Tom Waits)
John Spencer Blues Explosion
Zak Smith (Producer, Writer, Player)
Mad at Gravity


*Amp/Product Owners
*Lyle Workman (Beck, Writer, Sessions, Film Scores, Producer)
*Val McCallum (Shelby Lynn, Wallflowers, Jackson Browne)
*Ory Hudis (Woven)
Keith Nelson (Buckcherry)
*Jakob Dylan (Wallflowers)
*Dave Kahne (Sr. VP Warner Bros., Producer: Elton John, Paul McCartney, Sublime, Sugar Ray)
*John Shanks (Producer, Guitar Player)
*Sean Tubbs (Session Guitar Player Nashville)
*Corky James (Avril Lavigne, Matrix, Sessions)
*Tom Petty
*Mike Campbell
Real Big Fish
Something Corporate
The Calling
Matt Scannell (Vertical Horizon)
Draco Rosa (Producer, Artist/Ricky Martin)
*Mike Elzondo (Dr. Dre, Sheryl Crow, EMINEM, Writer, Player, Sessions)
*Oliver Leiber (Producer, Writer, Player)
*Glenn Pearce (Michael W. Smith, Sessions - Nashville)
*Tim Pierce (Session King - LA & International)
*Brian Wooten (Chris Cagle, Sessions - Nashville)
*Lance Keltner (Artist, Writer, Producer)
*Stuart Mathis (Jewel, Writer, Sessions)
"Beck" Hansen
Ivy Rorschach (The Cramps)
*James Harrah (Melissa Etheridge, Sessions

[rwe333]

Matamp V28 - too bright and the UK company was tough to deal with... Sold a '70s Hiwatt Custom 50 to afford it - BIG mistake.

[ACDC_TONE]

Nothing beats a Marshall.

Period

[wichita]

I have to say I have had some brutal Marshalls and Park's over the years and they are hard to beat!

[Amplite]

Originally posted by wichita
Lou, you are a funny guy....:)

D13 players list and clients

Billy F. Gibbons (ZZ Top)
Jackson Browne
Timothy B. Schmit (Eagles)
*Rusty Anderson (Elton John, Paul McCartney)
*Joel Shearer (Alanis Morissette, Ben Taylor, Pedestrian, Writer, Sessions)
*Nick Lashley (Alanis Morissette, Jagger, Michelle Branch, Lisa Marie Presley, Sessions)
*Jason Orme (Alanis Morissette)
*Scott Thurston (Tom Petty, guitar)
Dave Mason (Traffic, etc.)
John Taylor (Duran Duran)
Jon Brion (Producer, Writer)
Dave Davies (Kinks)
Mike Ness (Social D)
Paul D'Amour (Tool)
Tracy Chapman
Nils Kline
Ray Benson (Asleep at the Wheel)
Al Anderson (Lauryn Hill)
Dave Grohl (Foo Fighters)
Tommy Luya (Cypress Hill)
Dan Vickrey (Counting Crows)
*Jon Nichols (Beth Hart)
*Peter McCabe (Producer)
*Richard Bredice (Producer)
*George Lynch (Lynch Mob, Producer, Artist)
*Mike Chapman (Tom Petty)
*Yogi Lunich (Buch Cherry, Wallflowers)
*Brian Ray (Paul McCartney, Sessions)
*Mike Lockwood (Aime Mann, Lisa Marie Presley, Producer, Player, Writer, Sessions)
Smokey Hormel (Beck, Tom Waits)
John Spencer Blues Explosion
Zak Smith (Producer, Writer, Player)
Mad at Gravity


*Amp/Product Owners
*Lyle Workman (Beck, Writer, Sessions, Film Scores, Producer)
*Val McCallum (Shelby Lynn, Wallflowers, Jackson Browne)
*Ory Hudis (Woven)
Keith Nelson (Buckcherry)
*Jakob Dylan (Wallflowers)
*Dave Kahne (Sr. VP Warner Bros., Producer: Elton John, Paul McCartney, Sublime, Sugar Ray)
*John Shanks (Producer, Guitar Player)
*Sean Tubbs (Session Guitar Player Nashville)
*Corky James (Avril Lavigne, Matrix, Sessions)
*Tom Petty
*Mike Campbell
Real Big Fish
Something Corporate
The Calling
Matt Scannell (Vertical Horizon)
Draco Rosa (Producer, Artist/Ricky Martin)
*Mike Elzondo (Dr. Dre, Sheryl Crow, EMINEM, Writer, Player, Sessions)
*Oliver Leiber (Producer, Writer, Player)
*Glenn Pearce (Michael W. Smith, Sessions - Nashville)
*Tim Pierce (Session King - LA & International)
*Brian Wooten (Chris Cagle, Sessions - Nashville)
*Lance Keltner (Artist, Writer, Producer)
*Stuart Mathis (Jewel, Writer, Sessions)
"Beck" Hansen
Ivy Rorschach (The Cramps)
*James Harrah (Melissa Etheridge, Sessions

All these guys also own Mesa Boogies!:D

[Pedro58]

I was disappointed when I bought a 70's Marshall Artist combo that looked like a Bluesbreaker but sounded like a Twin! Doh!

[Tom Horner]

Two Rock Jade.....Both channels were lifeless

[Tag]

Originally posted by wichita
Lou, you are a funny guy....:)

D13 players list and clients

Billy F. Gibbons (ZZ Top)
Jackson Browne
Timothy B. Schmit (Eagles)
*Rusty Anderson (Elton John, Paul McCartney)
*Joel Shearer (Alanis Morissette, Ben Taylor, Pedestrian, Writer, Sessions)
*Nick Lashley (Alanis Morissette, Jagger, Michelle Branch, Lisa Marie Presley, Sessions)
*Jason Orme (Alanis Morissette)
*Scott Thurston (Tom Petty, guitar)
Dave Mason (Traffic, etc.)
John Taylor (Duran Duran)
Jon Brion (Producer, Writer)
Dave Davies (Kinks)
Mike Ness (Social D)
Paul D'Amour (Tool)
Tracy Chapman
Nils Kline
Ray Benson (Asleep at the Wheel)
Al Anderson (Lauryn Hill)
Dave Grohl (Foo Fighters)
Tommy Luya (Cypress Hill)
Dan Vickrey (Counting Crows)
*Jon Nichols (Beth Hart)
*Peter McCabe (Producer)
*Richard Bredice (Producer)
*George Lynch (Lynch Mob, Producer, Artist)
*Mike Chapman (Tom Petty)
*Yogi Lunich (Buch Cherry, Wallflowers)
*Brian Ray (Paul McCartney, Sessions)
*Mike Lockwood (Aime Mann, Lisa Marie Presley, Producer, Player, Writer, Sessions)
Smokey Hormel (Beck, Tom Waits)
John Spencer Blues Explosion
Zak Smith (Producer, Writer, Player)
Mad at Gravity


*Amp/Product Owners
*Lyle Workman (Beck, Writer, Sessions, Film Scores, Producer)
*Val McCallum (Shelby Lynn, Wallflowers, Jackson Browne)
*Ory Hudis (Woven)
Keith Nelson (Buckcherry)
*Jakob Dylan (Wallflowers)
*Dave Kahne (Sr. VP Warner Bros., Producer: Elton John, Paul McCartney, Sublime, Sugar Ray)
*John Shanks (Producer, Guitar Player)
*Sean Tubbs (Session Guitar Player Nashville)
*Corky James (Avril Lavigne, Matrix, Sessions)
*Tom Petty
*Mike Campbell
Real Big Fish
Something Corporate
The Calling
Matt Scannell (Vertical Horizon)
Draco Rosa (Producer, Artist/Ricky Martin)
*Mike Elzondo (Dr. Dre, Sheryl Crow, EMINEM, Writer, Player, Sessions)
*Oliver Leiber (Producer, Writer, Player)
*Glenn Pearce (Michael W. Smith, Sessions - Nashville)
*Tim Pierce (Session King - LA & International)
*Brian Wooten (Chris Cagle, Sessions - Nashville)
*Lance Keltner (Artist, Writer, Producer)
*Stuart Mathis (Jewel, Writer, Sessions)
"Beck" Hansen
Ivy Rorschach (The Cramps)
*James Harrah (Melissa Etheridge, Sessions


Bruno Cowtipper owners and lovers....

TAG. :cool:


Hey...if Lou had a Cowtipper and sold it, you know he must have gone totally insane, so dont sweat the 13 Lance. ;) ...........Kidding you Lou. Im glad you were able to own one (Cowtipper) for a while and check out how cool truly killer clean tones can be, even for a gain monger. :)

[Jim Collins]

Worst amp I ever owned was a Fender Super 60. I must have been possessed when I bought it, because I could never figure out why I did.

[Steve Rigby]

My biggest dissappointment was an ERT-33 as well. I felt is was a little noisy, and just didn't sound that great to my ears. Frankly, I preferred my Matchless SC-30. I know a lot of guys love this amp, I'm just not one of them.

[Wayne]

Originally posted by Deaj
+1 for the 'red knob' Twin. That was a terrible amp. Always disappeared in the mix but considering how it sounded when you could hear it this was probably one of it's better qualities :rolleyes:

+2 for red knobed twin. Lots of nice features but couldn't get a decent sound out of it.

Wayne

[StonerTone]

Marshall Artist 4203.....very harsh distortion and flat tone, also had really cheap pots installed in the factory. Its sitting here with a pile of books and dust on it. I'd sell it but wouldn't feel good about dumping this pile of crap on someone else.

[wichita]

Hey...if Lou had a Cowtipper and sold it, you know he must have gone totally insane, so dont sweat the 13 Lance. ...........Kidding you Lou. Im glad you were able to own one for a while and check out how cool truly killer clean tones can be, even for a gain monger.


;) :p :D :dude

[DanR]

Fender 75 - Very tinny highs, kinda thin sounding cleans. Unless the mid-boost was pulled, then it our-Boogied 'real' Boogies as far as the mid-honking that many complain about. The pull boosts were not channel dependent, which made getting acceptable footswitchable clean and dirty sounds virtually impossible. The overdrive sounds ultimately proved disappointing to me also, although they sounded pretty good in the store. And, at the time, my priorities were heavily slanted toward overdrive tones and I really didn't give the cleans a real listen until I got it home, and even then it was probably a year later. It had a 15/75 watt switch but the difference was imperceptible to me.

(dis)honorable mention - Acoustic 117 (1 X 12 50 watt) - this was the only solid state amp I've ever owned. It had cold harsh highs and a not too pleasant clean tone altogether. The overdrive was not very good, either. Hey, I had little cash at the time, I got it out the door for $250 new and it had a master volume, which was becoming the rage in the late 70's. I compared it side by side with a new Deluxe Reverb using my own guitar. It held it's own......in the store :rolleyes:

DanR

[ericb]

Geez, I'm glad the Tophat CRII, Budda SD30 , Egnater ie4 owners,etc didn't pick on me about not loving their stuff, like Lou gets picked on.... He can like whatever the hell he wants to like... sheesh, and has every right to say what he thinks, and to post his 'honest' thoughts if he doesn't like something... It all balances out in the end , and people like me who research some of this stuff weigh opinions before we decide if we want to try something. For the life of me , I don't understand ANYONE who sells stuff they love only to try something else.. To me they're not really guitarists, but just more like collectors/traders... To me that's a very different hobby than being a musician or guitarist. I keep everything I love and use it lots.... BUT there's no reason to pick on someone about it.. Most of us are over 12 years old here right? ..... It's also very easy for us adults who've read this forum for longer than a few months to realize that there are very different levels of players here. There might be someone who does it for a living but basically there's a zillion barband weekend guitarists that blow him away.. There might be someone who has mastered every Stanley Jordan , Chet Atkins, and/or Wes Montgomery lick but has never played in public... THere's guys that can blow me with rags and bluegrass fingerpicking.. There's guys that think they're great playing the same clapton blues riff for a 6 minute song over and over, and then that same riff with EVERY song.... Man there's all kinds of guitarists here... why should we all love the same stuff? That'd be nothing but stupid... I either cohost or host open mics once in awhile and sometimes will give some guitarists a setup to play thru if they want.. Every single one sounds different thru the same gear! MUCH tone is in your hands. duh huh..... Much tone is how you dial in your gear. Much tone is how LOUD you play an amp ...I have 50 -100 watt amps that sound absolutely great from whisper to house-shaking levels.. I have others that suck until they're turned up to at least 60% on the volume... All that figures in ... If Lance's amp sounded like that without pedals with him playing thru it, it's just common sense to me that it won't sound the same with Lou playing thru the same amp as they're very different guitarists... I've read so many Budda owners saying the SD30's were just flat out awesome. I didn't think mine was at all... Not even close . But I do know many amps that are awesome for me! That's what counts... I'll shut up now


ERIC:eek:

[HammyD]

Originally posted by Jim Collins
Worst amp I ever owned was a Fender Super 60. I must have been possessed when I bought it, because I could never figure out why I did.

Yeah, but what it lacked in any sense of tone it made up in weight!!!;)

I had one with the extension 12 cabinet and it was hard on the eyes, ears and back!

[Pappy]

Dr. Z Route 66: I really wanted to like this amp but it didn't work at all for me. It was WAY too dark sounding with little to no high end detail. The distorted tones were midrangey and flat. I couldn't sell it fast enough.

Bogner Shiva: I should have returned this amp immediately for a refund but I kept thinking that it should sound better and that it was just me. This was the amp that tought me that I'm not a master volume kind of guy. The clean channel was nice but it was TOO clean for me. Also, I hated how the clean channel broke up when you cranked it. The distortion channel only sounded good with the gain up at least midway. and then it was too distorted for the recording sessions I was doing at the time (I've found that you need way less gain in the studio). PLUS, it was heavy as hell. I will say, though, that the reverb was nice and it did sound very good on a few different occasions.

Fargen High Gain Head: One of the worst sounding amps I've ever heard. Buzzy, horrible distortion. No clean tone to speak of (it wasn't really designed for that anyway). I couldn't sell it fast enough. While I have heard a few Fargen amps that sounded good, this amp made me want to avoid them.

Z28: I actually tried this amp before I bought one and liked it a lot. Unfortunately, the room that I heard it in was very bright which drastically influenced the actual tone of the amp. When I tried it at a gig I found that it was way too dark for my taste and made all of my guitars sound muddy. It sounded good with my Les Paul but it was clear to me that I'm much more of a British amp kind of guy. I should have learned with the Route 66.

I'm sure that others will disagree with my takes on these amps. As always, YMMV.

[Tag]

Originally posted by ericb
Geez, I'm glad the Tophat CRII, Budda SD30 , Egnater ie4 owners,etc didn't pick on me about not loving their stuff, like Lou gets picked on.... He can like whatever the hell he wants to like... sheesh, and has every right to say what he thinks, and to post his 'honest' thoughts if he doesn't like something...
ERIC:eek:

Just for the record, Lou, you know I was totally joking. I am serious when I said it was cool you owned a tipper for a while and really enjoyed it. :)

[mrmojorisin]

Biggest disappointment was a Two Rock Custom. Couldn't figure out what all the hype was about...average tone at best. Then I opened it up, and saw all the sloppy wiring and silicone caulk used to hold things down! I kind of expected a $2500 amp to be kind of neat and well done on the inside!

[lv]

Originally posted by Tag
Just for the record, Lou, you know I was totally joking. I am serious when I said it was cool you owned a tipper for a while and really enjoyed it. :)

Tag, no worries man, I knew you were joking.

Eric, I would love to be able to afford to keep all the amps I've loved!

[tiltrite]

Originally posted by wichita
Lou, you are a funny guy....:)

D13 players list and clients

Billy F. Gibbons (ZZ Top)
Jackson Browne
Timothy B. Schmit (Eagles)
*Rusty Anderson (Elton John, Paul McCartney)
*Joel Shearer (Alanis Morissette, Ben Taylor, Pedestrian, Writer, Sessions)
*Nick Lashley (Alanis Morissette, Jagger, Michelle Branch, Lisa Marie Presley, Sessions)
*Jason Orme (Alanis Morissette)
*Scott Thurston (Tom Petty, guitar)
Dave Mason (Traffic, etc.)
John Taylor (Duran Duran)
Jon Brion (Producer, Writer)
Dave Davies (Kinks)
Mike Ness (Social D)
Paul D'Amour (Tool)
Tracy Chapman
Nils Kline
Ray Benson (Asleep at the Wheel)
Al Anderson (Lauryn Hill)
Dave Grohl (Foo Fighters)
Tommy Luya (Cypress Hill)
Dan Vickrey (Counting Crows)
*Jon Nichols (Beth Hart)
*Peter McCabe (Producer)
*Richard Bredice (Producer)
*George Lynch (Lynch Mob, Producer, Artist)
*Mike Chapman (Tom Petty)
*Yogi Lunich (Buch Cherry, Wallflowers)
*Brian Ray (Paul McCartney, Sessions)
*Mike Lockwood (Aime Mann, Lisa Marie Presley, Producer, Player, Writer, Sessions)
Smokey Hormel (Beck, Tom Waits)
John Spencer Blues Explosion
Zak Smith (Producer, Writer, Player)
Mad at Gravity


*Amp/Product Owners
*Lyle Workman (Beck, Writer, Sessions, Film Scores, Producer)
*Val McCallum (Shelby Lynn, Wallflowers, Jackson Browne)
*Ory Hudis (Woven)
Keith Nelson (Buckcherry)
*Jakob Dylan (Wallflowers)
*Dave Kahne (Sr. VP Warner Bros., Producer: Elton John, Paul McCartney, Sublime, Sugar Ray)
*John Shanks (Producer, Guitar Player)
*Sean Tubbs (Session Guitar Player Nashville)
*Corky James (Avril Lavigne, Matrix, Sessions)
*Tom Petty
*Mike Campbell
Real Big Fish
Something Corporate
The Calling
Matt Scannell (Vertical Horizon)
Draco Rosa (Producer, Artist/Ricky Martin)
*Mike Elzondo (Dr. Dre, Sheryl Crow, EMINEM, Writer, Player, Sessions)
*Oliver Leiber (Producer, Writer, Player)
*Glenn Pearce (Michael W. Smith, Sessions - Nashville)
*Tim Pierce (Session King - LA & International)
*Brian Wooten (Chris Cagle, Sessions - Nashville)
*Lance Keltner (Artist, Writer, Producer)
*Stuart Mathis (Jewel, Writer, Sessions)
"Beck" Hansen
Ivy Rorschach (The Cramps)
*James Harrah (Melissa Etheridge, Sessions

What is your point?

[hansoloist]

Biggest disappointment -- Getting my Marshall 50watt Plexi RI back from Harry Kolbe. The guy completely ruined the amp, and even after it was modded back to stock, it never sounded quite the same as it originally did. What a waste of money. Harry Kolbe -- Marshall Wrecker.

Lou, my /13 clips hardly have a harshness in the high end. Why--because the amp doesn't. If I remember correctly, Procos said that the tone in my clips was quite different than the tone he heard out of your amp. Maybe it did have a problem after all... I get nothing but fat, sweet, singing lead tone.

For what it's worth, I recently talked to someone who heard the Constellation side by side with the 33, and they felt the Connie, while very gainy and complex, sounded thin, nasal, bright and harsh in comparison. YMMV.

peace
-jeff

[lv]

Originally posted by hansoloist

Lou, my /13 clips hardly have a harshness in the high end. Why--because the amp doesn't. If I remember correctly, Procos said that the tone in my clips was quite different than the tone he heard out of your amp. Maybe it did have a problem after all... I get nothing but fat, sweet, singing lead tone.

For what it's worth, I recently talked to someone who heard the Constellation side by side with the 33, and they felt the Connie, while very gainy and complex, sounded thin, nasal, bright and harsh in comparison. YMMV.

peace
-jeff

please repost your clips.

[Distortion]

Lou, just out of curiousity, what cabinet and speakers were you running your 33 through?

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by Lou V
please repost your clips.

Lou, for you...anything: Clips (http://www.jeffsamson.com/clips/)

peace
-jeff

[Wizard of Ozz]

Bogner Überschall... I found I had to make too many compromises with it tonally. It's a good amp, but not worth the asking price IMHO.

[wichita]

Nice Clips Jeff....Don't sound thin to me.

[Tag]

Originally posted by hansoloist
Biggest disappointment -- Getting my Marshall 50watt Plexi RI back from Harry Kolbe. The guy completely ruined the amp, and even after it was modded back to stock, it never sounded quite the same as it originally did. What a waste of money. Harry Kolbe -- Marshall Wrecker.

-jeff

Jeff,
I totally forgot about Kolbe. he did the EXACT same thing to my prized 1972 50 watt Marshall. I actually almost cried when I tried it out when I first got it back. (NOT tears of joy) :(

[Tag]

Originally posted by Lou V
Tag, no worries man, I knew you were joking.



:)

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by wichita
Nice Clips Jeff....Don't sound thin to me.

Thanks, Lance.

You know, when it comes down to it, it really doesn't matter what Lou or I say about Fred's amps. Lou's criticism certainly isn't going to hurt Fred's business, and my praise certainly isn't going to help it. Why--cause who the hell are we? I'm sure that all of these session guys aren't buying /13 amps because "that Jeff guy says they're the shit." And I don't think people are going to pass on a /13 because it didn't get Lou's seal of approval. In the end, people will make up their own minds.

However, an interesting phenomenon is that any time Lou talks bad about the 33 or /13, Fred gets a flurry of inquires and sells a boat-load of amps. Fred was laughing hysterically about this with me the last time Lou talked badly about the 33 on here. So, Lou, keep up the good work!!!!:)

peace
-jeff

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by Tag
Jeff,
I totally forgot about Kolbe. he did the EXACT same thing to my prized 1972 50 watt Marshall. I actually almost cried when I tried it out when I first got it back. (NOT tears of joy) :(

You brought an original 72 50 watt to him?!?!?!?!:eek: Jeez, did you ever have it modded back to stock? If so, was it ever the same after that? What an awful experience...

peace
-jeff

[Tag]

Originally posted by hansoloist
Thanks, Lance.

You know, when it comes down to it, it really doesn't matter what Lou or I say about Fred's amps. Lou's criticism certainly isn't going to hurt Fred's business, and my praise certainly isn't going to help it. Why--cause who the hell are we? I'm sure that all of these session guys aren't buying /13 amps because "that Jeff guy says they're the shit." And I don't think people are going to pass on a /13 because it didn't get Lou's seal of approval. In the end, people will make up their own minds.

However, an interesting phenomenon is that any time Lou talks bad about the 33 or /13, Fred gets a flurry of inquires and sells a boat-load of amps. Fred was laughing hysterically about this with me the last time Lou talked badly about the 33 on here. So, Lou, keep up the good work!!!!:)

peace
-jeff

What do you guys have against Lou?? There have been lots of 13s up for sale. No amp is for everyone. (Except the Cowtipper of course :D )........... You are making yourselfs look awful silly. An area I happen to be an expert on. :cool:

[Tag]

Originally posted by hansoloist
You brought an original 72 50 watt to him?!?!?!?!:eek: Jeez, did you ever have it modded back to stock? If so, was it ever the same after that? What an awful experience...

peace
-jeff
Jeff,
Yep......Had him put a switch in that supposedly bypassed the entire "new mod". Never sounded right again. :mad:

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by Tag
What do you guys have against Lou?? There have been lots of 13s up for sale. No amp is for everyone. (Except the Cowtipper of course :D )........... You are making yourselfs look awful silly. An area I happen to be an expert on. :cool:

I thought I was being very reasonable in my post! Though, I am prone to silliness. Now, let us go then you and I, and demand our money back from ol' Harry...

peace
-jeff

[big mike]

Originally posted by Tag
No amp is for everyone.

There you go. Applies to everything.

We all gots different ears.

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by big mike blues
There you go. Applies to everything.

We all gots different ears.

...and different brews...(see fart thread):D

peace
-jeff

[big mike]

Originally posted by hansoloist
...and different brews...(see fart thread):D

peace
-jeff

Oh yeah read about your, I mean your FRIEND's aromatic issue :p

[BattleAngel]

If you're an experienced player who really understands how different amps can feel completely different from another, and have a basic understanding of how Class A amps generally feel, how high gainers generally feel, etc. I think you can listen to Jeff's clips and think "wow, holy shit, that really works for that song- that's even better than that band's real tone"- but also still recognize that there is a lot of 'crushed glass' in that amp, and that it might be completely uncomfortable to play for someone else.

To my ear, the "I believe" clip on there sounds amaaazingly well balanced in the mix, very fluid, clear, and comfortable- but I know for a fact that for someone who relied on a bit more "meat" or "middle" to really dig in and hold on to, that amp may have sounded like crap. Some people have made beautiful, unbelievable tones happen with a Les Paul, while others won't even touch one. That's just how it goes- from listening to that /13 clip I can tell you for sure that that amp is going to sound like shit to some players- and that has nothing to do with their skill level. I gaurentee, Lou, that if you had been in the room w/ Jeff while he was ripping that stuff out, you would have been pretty psyched about the amp. You just have to adjust your playing style to the amp, just like you would EQ an amp. If you can do that, some people can and some people can't, you can make any decent amp sound pretty great, in my experience.

[wichita]

There you go. Applies to everything.

We all gots different ears.


Thats a good thing!:D

Tag, I had a Kolbe modded Twin that sounded really good, but I heard the Marshalls and they were not for me at all.

And Tagger its not a matter of Lou having a difference of opinion, he just jumps in every d13 thread with a chip on his shoulder like Fred pee'd on his birthday cake and I had something to do with it cause I had good sounding clips. Like we conspired to trick him into buying an amp or something. It would be like every single bruno thread having him on there complaining.

Jeff,
I get your poiint about Lou. From now on I encourage Lou to jump in on every D13 thread and voice his distaste for the amp.
Yep it was all a pedal......no wait.....It was a line 6 amp farm, yeah, thats the ticket......:p

And to the guy that said "whats your point?"""
I would have to reply that there is a long list of folks who are being heard on the radio and disk all over the world that love the D13's. IT would be hard to stack up any other boutique builder right now as far as artist support and have anyone close to the number of amps on tour that Fred has. And...every guy on that list paid for the amp, and waited for it just like everybody else.

It could be that we all bought them cause they look really cool but I doubt that's the only reason........whats your point? Duhhh.

In the imortal words of Forrest Gump
"thats all I have to say about that".

[big mike]

Hey Lance I see your points, but that goes on alot around here. Some people have a chip on their shoulders about a certain peice of gear or brand name, and will jump every thread pertaining to it and slag it. ( I'm not speaking of you Lou, to be honest, I haven't been interesed enough to peruse the /13 threads, so I have no idea if that's correct in your case, no disrespect intended or implied).

Getting into pi**ing contests about it doesn't do any good. If the amp is a good peice of gear, it will speak for itself, to someone that wants to hear what it has to say.

We are fortunate to live in a time where there is a plethora of high quality gear with a wide variaty of tones available to suit any taste or style. Most will stand on their own merits, and do not need on going arguments about whether it is good or not. We all need to be able to offer our points, and let the buyer or listener decide for his/her self if it works.

[tiltrite]

Originally posted by wichita

And to the guy that said "whats your point?"""
I would have to reply that there is a long list of folks who are being heard on the radio and disk all over the world that love the D13's. IT would be hard to stack up any other boutique builder right now as far as artist support and have anyone close to the number of amps on tour that Fred has. And...every guy on that list paid for the amp, and waited for it just like everybody else.

It could be that we all bought them cause they look really cool but I doubt that's the only reason........whats your point? Duhhh.



No offense intended; I'm the guy who asked what your point was for listing D13 players. Thank you for clarifying.

I'm actually going to be getting an ERT33. If I like it, I like it. Great, and I probably will. If not, I don't care if the holy floating ghost himself is on a list as being player of it. That's all.:cool:

[wichita]

I don't care if the holy floating ghost himself is on a list as being player of it. That's all.

THANK YOU!!!

Exactly what I thought when I ordered mine. The point I was making is that there are a wonderous world full of pro guys who LOVE FRED's amps. I couldn't imagine playing anything else.

The only reason that I rush to the defense when Lou does this is that I have heard Lou play, and I have heard 100 other people play through these amps and EVERYONE sounds different through the D13's. Doesn't make it a bad amp becaue Lou didn't like it, and on some of the other threads that he has jumped in on he was questioning build quality and being quite insulitng. Just like earlier on this thread when he commented "bad tone built right in" or something to that effect. The bad tone if it is there is built into the players hands when it comes to this level of amplifier.
I have heard folks play through Dumbles, and Wrecks and sound like poop.....however, these are people that buy and sell, and buy and sell amps cause they think that they are going to spend the right amount of money with the right guy and the gates of heaven will open up and Hendrix, Django, and Robert Johnson will bestow their magic chops on the guy just becuase they pop 3g's on a matercard.
Not gonna happen. You is what you is.

By the by,,, good luck with your 33. I like it even better than the 37 and then I go back to the 37 and like that too.....hope you dig it as much as I do and thanks for the reply.

[Tag]

Originally posted by BattleAngel
[B
[/B] If you're an experienced player who really understands how different amps can feel completely different from another, and have a basic understanding of how Class A amps generally feel, how high gainers generally feel, etc. I think you can listen to Jeff's clips and think "wow, holy shit, that really works for that song- that's even better than that band's real tone"- but also still recognize that there is a lot of 'crushed glass' in that amp, and that it might be completely uncomfortable to play for someone else.

Or, you may just say........ "that tone stinks imo". No big deal!
I guess Lou is not allowed to dislike a certain amp???:confused:

[wichita]

It's not that Tag. It is the never ending whine regarding this one in particular that is annoying. You would feel the same way if he felt slighted by you for reccomending the Bruno.

No biggie

[TRIODEROB]

Bogner Ecstacy are getting fried on the thread.
I was under the impression that he was one of the
best- oh well.

also the dr z route 66 is not doing too well



at least everyone loves a good old plexi and tweed bassman

makes you wonder- those amps were from the late 50s and
early 60s - how far have we come?


:p

[carlygtr56]

http://www.prosoundcommunications.com/english/video/brad_fernquist/index.html

[Blueser]

Come on guys...Lighten up! The thread was which amp disappointed you.?

Well....Lou put down his hard earned money, and was disappointed in the amp. It doesn't matter how many pros gig with it or not, or what your playing level is. The fact stands that he was disappointed in the amp!

I for one have said that I thought the amp was a bit bright and harsh on the upper end when I heard it in person. That said, the clips sound amazing, so it goes to show you what I know. I happen to thing that Rust Anderson's tone on the McCartney back in the US tour was incredible. I still wouldn't buy the amp, because I didn't really care for it when I heard it in the flesh.

This is not a shot at anyone, as I am sure there are folks who can't stand the amps I play either. It's just that this is so subjective, that we could go on forever and never resolve this.

And Jeff.....If your gonna stink up the place.....go back over to the lounge huh!!! :D Oh....BTW, did you call her back or not? hehehe.


Peace,
B

[TieDyedDevil]

Oh, wow... Um, the list of amps I *haven't* been disappointed by is a lot shorter.

Let's see... I went through a lot of Boogies when I was into channel-switching amps. Eventually discovered that the channels just got in the way. Also developed a dislike for too much compression in the lead channels, and not enough 'give' in the clean channels. But, y'know, the Boogies were OK before my tastes changed.

The worst couple of amps I owned were a Fender Deluxe Reverb II (Rivera-era channel-switcher) and a 1976 Sunn Model T (150W of "ouch that mid-peak hurts my ears").

I've walked away from tons of amps after having tried them, with no regrets. I'm not going to name them, because I think the thread is about amps we've bought. I'll just say that my tastes seem to be very different from what a lot of folks get excited about around here.

The one amp I've been drooling over is a Tweed low-power twin clone. I had a mind-meld with a Victoria, and was very sad that I didn't have $2,800 to spend on it. I'm going to check out Fender's take on the '57 Twin RI and see whether I like that.

[Seditious]

Originally posted by Lou V
, I am quite happy with the way I play...listen to my clips, they aren't too bad for an amateur!...and if you listen to them, you'll hear the kind of tones I like and will very clearly understand why the ert33 did not work out.
carry on gentlemen...

Lou,
I listened to your clips, and I totally see where you are coming from. I hear no top end on your clips. It sounds like you're using the neck pickup with the tone rolled all the way down into a dark amp. It's not my sound, but it doesn't sound bad to my ears. But Jeffs clips are much different than yours, so I can see why you wouldn't like the amp. It sounds good to me though.

[benttop]

Originally posted by TRIODEROB
which amp did you buy, thinking you were going to love it,
the reviews were great, the price was right, people on
the web sites were doing back flips over it.

you get it home, fire it up and think - oh CRAP!

ITS - NOT - THAT - GREAT


:mad:

Mesa Nomad. Thought I would like it. Tried like hell to get used to it. I used it for about six months until I got so disillusioned with it that I gave it to my cousin's son to bang heads with. That thing could not produce any dyamics if its life depended on it.... :(

[benttop]

Originally posted by tonemandan
Line 6 Axcess ( sp? )

Fun to play around with at bedroom volumes. Took it to a gig and HATED it. No more modeling amps for tonemandan.....

Dan

I did the same thing with a Boss GT-6 here. It sounded great in the studio, but after twice on a gig, it's been sitting in the same spot downstairs for two years - untouched. I should try to sell it before they go obsolete! :)

[Dave LaP]

Originally posted by John Phillips
LOL! :D

For all you guys who say there is a 'Mesa Pattern'... have you tried more than one model? They make a huge range (more than just about any other company I can think of except perhaps Peavey) of very differently-voiced amps.

And there is a BIG difference between 'Mesa' and 'Boogie'. I admit to being a big fan of Mesa amps, but I'm still not at all keen on 'Boogies'. Yes, I know it's the same company... but the amps are not voiced and do not respond even remotely similarly... compare a Mark1 to a Dual Rec, for example.


This is funny (I'm not disagreeing with how you found it, BTW), because one common criticism of Mesa seems to be that they make all guitars sound the same... :)

I do hate their ad BS though... I remember the one for the MKIII which claimed that it nailed all the "three great sounds" with "flawless footswitchable accuracy". I could never make it do more than two (both of which sounded totally 'Boogie'), and barely more than one of those at remotely the same knob settings, so it was hardly 'footswitchable' at all.

Each to their own of course, but don't discount any company just because you had a bad experience with one of their amps. I nearly did after the MkIII... but then I wouldn't have discovered the DC-5, which is still my 'perfect' amp.

I hated the Matchless Phoenix, but I'd be quite willing to listen to a different model... although I certainly wouldn't buy one 'blind'.

Hi John,

It sounds like your post is directed at my earlier one so I'll respond. I've owned the Mark III, 50 Caliber, Studio 22, Blue Angel, and Maverick. I've also played the Tri Axis and the Mark IV and others.

The only one I hated was the 50 Caliber. I liked my Mark III although the only good sound I could get out of mine was the lead channel (3). I could never get anywhere near a good clean tone with mine.

I didn't mean to discredit Mesa because they make some fine amps. Some close to boutique sound quality. Early on in the post a lot of posters mentioned Mesa and I thought it might be more because their ads promise so much than the amps themselves.

[Dave LaP]

Originally posted by Blueser
Come on guys...Lighten up! The thread was which amp disappointed you.?

Well....Lou put down his hard earned money, and was disappointed in the amp. It doesn't matter how many pros gig with it or not, or what your playing level is. The fact stands that he was disappointed in the amp!

I for one have said that I thought the amp was a bit bright and harsh on the upper end when I heard it in person. That said, the clips sound amazing, so it goes to show you what I know. I happen to thing that Rust Anderson's tone on the McCartney back in the US tour was incredible. I still wouldn't buy the amp, because I didn't really care for it when I heard it in the flesh.

This is not a shot at anyone, as I am sure there are folks who can't stand the amps I play either. It's just that this is so subjective, that we could go on forever and never resolve this.

And Jeff.....If your gonna stink up the place.....go back over to the lounge huh!!! :D Oh....BTW, did you call her back or not? hehehe.


Peace,
B

I agree with Blueser and Tag on this one. The thread was about which amp dissapointed you most. Lou stated his opinion. That should be the end of it.

Wichita, do mind my saying that you seem overly sensitive to the fact that Lou did not like the %13? Let it go man. He has a right to his opinion. I read this board all the time and I can only remember a few times reading Lou's opinion on the %13. The reason I remember it so well is because you seem so eager to call him out for it.

Different amps work for different people. We all know that. Just look at the list of amps here that people have stated were the worst they ever owned!! Two Rock, Diezel, Dr Z, Matchless, and on and on. There is no amp out there that I have heard all positive comments from users about. There is always going to be someone who doesn't like a particular amp no matter how freakin great it is. If he didn't like it he's entitled to say so as long as it's within the context of the thread. If it's a %13 thread then he's entitled to share his experience. If it's a thread about biggest amp dissapointments then he's entitled to share his opinion.

If the thread was about, Two Rocks, for example, and he jumped in with his .02 about 13's then I would say that's poor threadetiquette. (Hey did I just make up a new term?)

I love your clips of the 13 and was about to buy one before money got scarce. I really like to hear your opinions about gear too. Lou's a good guy. Cut him some slack jack. :)

Peace

[charley]

I think that we need a TIME OUT.
Okay, I'm turning off the lights, everyone in their corner for 5 minutes.

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by BattleAngel
If you're an experienced player who really understands how different amps can feel completely different from another, and have a basic understanding of how Class A amps generally feel, how high gainers generally feel, etc. I think you can listen to Jeff's clips and think "wow, holy shit, that really works for that song- that's even better than that band's real tone"- but also still recognize that there is a lot of 'crushed glass' in that amp, and that it might be completely uncomfortable to play for someone else.

To my ear, the "I believe" clip on there sounds amaaazingly well balanced in the mix, very fluid, clear, and comfortable- but I know for a fact that for someone who relied on a bit more "meat" or "middle" to really dig in and hold on to, that amp may have sounded like crap. Some people have made beautiful, unbelievable tones happen with a Les Paul, while others won't even touch one. That's just how it goes- from listening to that /13 clip I can tell you for sure that that amp is going to sound like shit to some players- and that has nothing to do with their skill level. I gaurentee, Lou, that if you had been in the room w/ Jeff while he was ripping that stuff out, you would have been pretty psyched about the amp. You just have to adjust your playing style to the amp, just like you would EQ an amp. If you can do that, some people can and some people can't, you can make any decent amp sound pretty great, in my experience.

Wow, thanks for the kind words. I had a blast doing the "I Believe" clip.

I've heard a bunch of people play through my 33...some of them get great tones and love it, and some of them make it sound like shit and hate it. I for one had to change quite a few things about my playing style to get the amp to work for me, and IMO, the amp has made me a much better player.

And Blueser--IT WASN'T ME!!!!!!!!!!:D

peace
-jeff

[BattleAngel]

No problem, Jeff. That batch of clips right there is definitely one of my favs that I've ever heard on any internet forum, for what it's worth. I would love to have that tone on the record I'm going to be tracking here in NY in the next month or so- it's cool to me because you can hear your fingers squeezing the tone out- it's not the kind of amp that seems like it'll just put out for anyone ;-)

[tak]

Yep, if this whole thing isn't a matter of opinion I don't know what is. I listed a Mesa because that was the first thing that came to mind. But If I start to think about all of the amps I've owned over the years, there are probably a few that were much worse. The thing is, I've also completely changed the way I play in the last 10 years. I would probably hate half of the amps that I used to think were the shit.

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by BattleAngel
No problem, Jeff. That batch of clips right there is definitely one of my favs that I've ever heard on any internet forum, for what it's worth. I would love to have that tone on the record I'm going to be tracking here in NY in the next month or so- it's cool to me because you can hear your fingers squeezing the tone out- it's not the kind of amp that seems like it'll just put out for anyone ;-)

Well, if you'd love to have that tone on your record, then all you have to do is ask, man. If you promise to take extra special care of it, I'd have no problem loaning it to you to record with.:) Shoot me an email if you're interested.

peace
-jeff

[RichSZ]

Fender Deluxe Reverb...for some reason, I've never quite caught on with this amp. Then again, I liked the newer Vibrolux 2x10.

Best of all time: GDS 18 watt Marshall clone that I built myself (damn, I'm good) and my Matchless Chieftain.

Of course, this is strictly my amateur opinion...

-Rich S.

[factoryfuzz]

nice clips jeff, i hear the top issue that has been discussed here, i have an FTR37 and 2x12, and the first thing i noticed is how beautiful the clean channel was and how it overdrives very very nicely, the click channel tho had a weird (for me) fizzle or fuzz on the top, it is smooth, but it is also fizzy. Its the character of the amp and i didn't like it at first but now its starting to grow on me. Its the voice of the D13 amps because every clip i hear has that on the top in the click channel. Its definitly modern and its definitly a result of the higher gain thing, plus i think its the way fred voices his amps, he exaggerates the low end and ads the fizzle on the high end, i think he is trying to really exapand on tone and give the full spectrum lows, mids, highs, the full gamut with a little exageration on all . some will love it and some will hate it, the tone at first was a bit of a shock to me, but i am starting to understand and enjoy it, it gives the amp alot of definition and a unique quality which is D13's trademark.

PS I will be joining the ERT33 club soon
just sent payment for a head and 2x12 cab w/ blues:dude

[wichita]

Fuzz,
I know what you are getting at. I do roll off my tone on my fender style guitars a bit o on the 37, but I like to have the top there because you can make the long pants short but you cant make the short pants long.

Lou doesn't like the amps and that has always been OK by me guys. Its just some of the really ugly comments that he has made regarding Fred and the amps that have set me off a bit.

I mean Geeez, All I did at one point on this board is tell someone that I didn't like a particular amp and sent it back and the builder emailed and threatened me with physical violence.......so people do get touchy and maybe in this case I am being overprotective of someone that I like and respect a lot, FRED.

Lou, I wasnt in ANY way insinuating that it was your playing style that made you dislike the amp....I was saying it outright. As I said, and it is no slag on you, I have heard perfectly happy normal guys plug into extremely touch sensitive amps and sound like butt who normally sounded great through their regular amps.
You are also a bit over sensitive about the pro thing guy. I list the folks that play fReds amps cause it does speaks volumes as to their quality and roadability which is very important to most people....even hobbiests. I hope we can get past this now...and be nice.
Much love,
Me

PS
I sounded like butt through one of the wrecks I tried and someone else sounded killer through the same amp....you never know.

[Jarrett]

Lance, I'm surprised to see you react like this. Dogging Lou's playing and so vehemently defending an amp builder that needs no defense. But, I have to admit with all this controversy, it makes me want to hear one now though, hehe.

My biggest disappointment: The original Komet.

Not that its a bad amp, I just bought into the hype (and clips) REALLY hard and didn't vibe with the amp. I really wanted to love that amp the way some owners do.

Although now, a few years later and now that I am really digging the Flexi, I'd love to give a Komet another day in court.

[Distortion]

Hey Jarrett, it is funny you bring up the Komet as a disappointment.. Last year I picked up one of the Komet 60's and I just couldn't bond with it.. It just wasn't right so it didn't stay around long..
Well, last week an opportunity came up for me to pick up another Komet at a good price, so I decided to give it another try.. I have to say, this new Komet just blew me away.. This is definitely one of the very best sounding amps I have ever heard...
I didn't think there was anything wrong with my first Komet, but after playing the new one I can't believe the difference..
All I can say is I am sure glad I gave Komets a second chance..

[lhallam]

Originally posted by Dave LaP
Hi John,

It sounds like your post is directed at my earlier one so I'll respond. I've owned the Mark III, 50 Caliber, Studio 22, Blue Angel, and Maverick. I've also played the Tri Axis and the Mark IV and others.

The only one I hated was the 50 Caliber. I liked my Mark III although the only good sound I could get out of mine was the lead channel (3). I could never get anywhere near a good clean tone with mine.

I didn't mean to discredit Mesa because they make some fine amps. Some close to boutique sound quality. Early on in the post a lot of posters mentioned Mesa and I thought it might be more because their ads promise so much than the amps themselves.

Mesa's were the first "boutique" amps. In the 60's it was quite common for guitarists to mod their amps. Mesa was the first to come out with the master channel as far as I know. Certainly the first to become popular. A Mark III was in a class all by itself in the 70's. So it comes as no surprise to me that the hype has continued to this day.

The problem with the early Mesa's is that it was tricky to dial in a good tone. On top of that was that if you got a good clean sound the OD sounded like mud. If you got a good OD sound the cleans were ice pick.

[ButchR]

I was gonna put my opinion here but I am SCARED to death. I don't want to be jumped on because of a certain amp that I was dissapointed in.

So, every amp I've ever played just sounded great. Just GREAT! So many wonderful amps. I never bought one that was dissapointing in any way. Can't you feel the love?:)

[Blueser]

Originally posted by ButchR
I was gonna put my opinion here but I am SCARED to death. I don't want to be jumped on because of a certain amp that I was dissapointed in.

Sissy! :D

Come on man.....What a bit of head stompin' love between forum brothers. Come clean! :p

[ButchR]

Hey Blueser,

I'm gonna be in NYC next week with our church youth choir.

[wichita]

I did not the lead channel on the amp.

What does that mean?

Relax Lou,

I told you that I sounded like poo through a trainwreck.

[wichita]

Lance, your comments seem to refer to my ability, not my style, and that anyone who can't get good tone out of a /13 has "bad hands". Do you really think us "regular" guys can't get good tone out of touch sensitive amplifiers? Do you even realize how condescending that statement is?

Naah Lou, don't go there. We have been through this before any time you have started bagging on the d13 amp that you had. Your comment earlier about "bad tone built in" and other similar comments in the past were the only thing that rubbed me the wrong way. What I, or anyone else thinks or your ability is not the issue. Buy what you want, play what you want. I just don't dig it when anyone bags on a company on this board in the ways that you have. Any company, any time. All of these builders are just doing what they do and trying to make a living serving their customers. I don't like it is one thing, ...some of your comments have been rather rude.

I'm not sensitive to the "pro" thing at all, its the attitude that "pros" somehow know tone better than anyone else, which is simply not true. And you and I both know that you listed those pros to somehow add legitimacy to your point that the amps sound good. If all the pros love it, how could this "regular" guy's opinion matter?

Well actually Lou, the amps do sound good.....there are a lot of pro's , semi pros , and guys who just like to crank it up in the family room that own and enjoy D13's and a lot of other nice amps for that matter. My point was in reference, and addressing your childish comments that you have made in the past regarding this particular amp and manufacturer.

And you and I both know that you listed those pros to somehow add legitimacy to your point that the amps sound good
Wanted to throw that one on again.....that sounds really weird lou......the amps....do sound good, and yes I think that posting the list of players that love the amps does present a fairly strong case for quality tone, customer service, and workmanship that one upset guy such as yourself would have a hard time disputing. Re-read your own quote.......duuuh.

And you and I both know that you listed those pros to somehow add legitimacy to your point that the amps sound good ??????????????????????:confused:

[wichita]

By the way guys on a postive tip....

How many of you have played through Park 75's??

Those are very cool Jim Marshall designed heads.

Very happening rock tones.

[Tag]

Originally posted by wichita
Naah Lou, don't go there. We have been through this before any time you have started bagging on the d13 amp that you had. Your comment earlier about "bad tone built in" and other similar comments in the past were the only thing that rubbed me the wrong way. What I, or anyone else thinks or your ability is not the issue. Buy what you want, play what you want. I just don't dig it when anyone bags on a company on this board in the ways that you have. Any company, any time. All of these builders are just doing what they do and trying to make a living serving their customers. I don't like it is one thing, ...some of your comments have been rather rude.



Well actually Lou, the amps do sound good.....there are a lot of pro's , semi pros , and guys who just like to crank it up in the family room that own and enjoy D13's and a lot of other nice amps for that matter. My point was in reference, and addressing your childish comments that you have made in the past regarding this particular amp and manufacturer.


Wanted to throw that one on again.....that sounds really weird lou......the amps....do sound good, and yes I think that posting the list of players that love the amps does present a fairly strong case for quality tone, customer service, and workmanship that one upset guy such as yourself would have a hard time disputing. Re-read your own quote.......duuuh.

??????????????????????:confused:

Lance, I have never heard Lou make a childish comment on the 13. Give it a rest. You told me you did not like the ug30. Big deal.

[Martyk]

What a waste, the crunch channel lacked bottom end and sounded so compressed, didn't work for me at all.

[2BDH]

Marshall JCM900 :eek: :mad:

[pfrischmann]

hmmmm,

Two Rock Custom-Just couldn't bond with it and couldn't find a middle ground between the clean and dirty.

Tone tubbies-Just plain yuck!

Mesa-programable preamp-(can't think of it's name)- what a toy.

[wichita]

I didn't get the tone tubbies at all either. Did anybody buy them that liked them??

[hogy]

Originally posted by Distortion
Hey Jarrett, it is funny you bring up the Komet as a disappointment.. Last year I picked up one of the Komet 60's and I just couldn't bond with it.. It just wasn't right so it didn't stay around long..
Well, last week an opportunity came up for me to pick up another Komet at a good price, so I decided to give it another try.. I have to say, this new Komet just blew me away.. This is definitely one of the very best sounding amps I have ever heard...
I didn't think there was anything wrong with my first Komet, but after playing the new one I can't believe the difference..
All I can say is I am sure glad I gave Komets a second chance..

Hey guys, if the person who bought Distortion's first Komet reads this, please contact me.
Komets sound very consistent when they're new, I take great care to assure that. If there is such a pronounced difference between two of them, something is off.
Many of these amps have now changed owners a few times, I've seen some wild stuff. You can always send your Komet back to me to let me go through it and make sure it's doing what it's supposed to do.

Carry on...

Hogy, Komet Amplification
www.kometamps.com

[lhallam]

Originally posted by wichita
I didn't get the tone tubbies at all either. Did anybody buy them that liked them??

I've never bought one because all the mp3's I've heard sound too dark and stiff. Too much hype and too little delivery.

[Dave LaP]

Originally posted by wichita
I didn't get the tone tubbies at all either. Did anybody buy them that liked them??

I did and they were pretty awful with my Tone King Comet. I hear they're a very amp dependent speaker. They must be because no one would buy them if they sounded like mine thru the Tone King.

[Dave LaP]

Originally posted by lhallam
Mesa's were the first "boutique" amps. In the 60's it was quite common for guitarists to mod their amps. Mesa was the first to come out with the master channel as far as I know. Certainly the first to become popular. A Mark III was in a class all by itself in the 70's. So it comes as no surprise to me that the hype has continued to this day.

The problem with the early Mesa's is that it was tricky to dial in a good tone. On top of that was that if you got a good clean sound the OD sounded like mud. If you got a good OD sound the cleans were ice pick.

Amen! You're right they were the first "boutique" amps. They were what got me on the boutique trail that I've stayed on to this day.

[Dave LaP]

Originally posted by John Phillips
Dave - my post wasn't 'directed' at you! :) I just spotted a little trend of people saying there was a common reference to Mesas.

In fact, like I said, for years I might have been among them. I had a Studio .22 once, which put me off because the power tubes were PCB-mounted, which is why I got it cheap - due to board charring. This really put me off them, until I realised that it was the only amp they built like this (the new ones with PCB-mounted sockets also have them chassis-mounted, which heatsinks them and doesn't lead to the same trouble). Then I had a MKIII for a short while, and far from being a "3 channel" amp, was really a single-channel amp with variations... which were very difficult to set up to be useful on the fly. I never could get the second mode to sound remotely like a Marshall (which is what it promised), and it was pretty hard to get even two good tones at the same time on the other two. Not to mention that I didn't really like the basic honky tonality of it... ;)

So I was a little surprised to say the least to end up owning a Dual Caliber! But it really is totally different, and I'm very pleased that I kept an open enough mind to give it a chance... since it's as close to my 'perfect' amp as I've ever found. What's also interesting is that I A/B'd it to the Nomad 55 (which had just come out at the time, the DC was the last one in the shop). The DC completely blew the Nomad away, for my tastes. Way more dynamic, open, gritty, powerful sounding - and significantly louder too.


You know which amp I'm expecting to be disappointed by?

The Mesa Lone Star. I haven't been able to try one yet. I've heard just so much hype about this amp, about how it's the best thing they've ever made, etc... but I've also heard what I think is a pretty accurate description of it from someone who has one - and FWIW, who also loved the Matchless Phoenix. I don't think I'm going to like it at all... but let's wait and see :).

I'll have to check out the Dual Caliber some time. Sounds nice.

[Jarrett]

I didn't find the magic in the Lone Star either, but wasn't really expecting to. I've found that SuperReveb2 and I have almost opposing tastes in amps and he really liked that one.

[big mike]

Originally posted by Jarrett
I didn't find the magic in the Lone Star either, but wasn't really expecting to. I've found that SuperReveb2 and I have almost opposing tastes in amps and he really liked that one.

I have another thread about my trying it at GC yesterday. Big let down to me. Maverick 4x10 was much more happening.

[RichKelley]

Tone King Comet 40A. Yuk. Harsh, 2D. Maybe an archtop would be a good pairing with this amp. It has lots of cut, that's for sure. Not my cup of tea though.

Rich

[MightyGuru]

The Boogie MKIV was a big dissapointment to me. The 2nd channel is, was and will always be the wierdest non-musical, non-useable part of an amp that I struggled with for 6 months before throwing in the towel.

I liked the clean channel. I could make due with the overdrive channel but the farty bass and inherent Boogie sizzle soon relegated me to use the clean channel only with OD pedals.

I wish I would have kept the JMP 50 and the SOB I got rid of to buy the MKIV.

[benttop]

Originally posted by lhallam
Mesa's were the first "boutique" amps. In the 60's it was quite common for guitarists to mod their amps. Mesa was the first to come out with the master channel as far as I know. Certainly the first to become popular. A Mark III was in a class all by itself in the 70's. So it comes as no surprise to me that the hype has continued to this day.

The problem with the early Mesa's is that it was tricky to dial in a good tone. On top of that was that if you got a good clean sound the OD sounded like mud. If you got a good OD sound the cleans were ice pick.
I bought and used a Mesa Boogie Mark III back in the '70's (and paid $1600 for it - a lot more then than now!). In the end, it's inability to have a great sound on both channels was what caused me to get rid of it. Even so, I used that thing for about six years before my frustration with it boiled over to make me change out. Traded it straight across for a Fender Blues DeVille, and at least the Fender sounds good on both channels.

[cg]

Original Guytron
Bad Cat Hot Cat
Boogie Blue Angel
Marshall DSLs (50s and 100s) - way too bright for me

[DerekMinnich]

Originally posted by Jarrett

My biggest disappointment: The original Komet.


WOW, I can't believe it took someone 10 pages to post about a Komet being disappointing. Yes I am a Komet 60 player but I am not ignorant to the fact that it works for many and just flat out DOESN'T work for a lot of guys. I had a lot of trouble diggin' the Komet at first, then I sent it back to Hogy after some problems started to arise, and he found that previous owners had tampered with a cap and made a mod to the gradual to make it a little faster(I knew about this though). He said it was one of the worst sounding Komets in the shop he'd heard(a good thing, I knew it was gonna sound better when it got back to me). He sent it back and it sounded good, but I still had trouble on my own dialing it in to where I wanted it. It took some changing of other things in my setup to REALLY get into it and right now I'm getting my best tones ever.

Some of those changes....Strings, plectrum, preamp tubes, 6L6's(GT 6L6GE's)

Dean took care of me on the strings and pick....

Preamp tubes...I love the 12At7(Mullard ECC81) in the phase inverter, LPS in v2.....and a mullard ECC83 in v1.

From what I've found Komets are very sensitive to these changes....at least with strats. I find them most sensitive to the strings though....the Snake Oils don't have any irritating frequencies and they really bond well with my Chapin and the Komet loves em.

Hopefully you can give one a try again for a decent amount of time...it took me QUITE a while to get what I wanted and I've got it.

I was really surprised no one said what you did sooner though Jarrett.

[Jarrett]

I probably should have taken Hogy up on his gracious offer to take the amp in before I sell it and make sure it was 100%. I didn't though. I hope I run into another one locally someday and get to hear it with "older" ears. I may have a whole different opinion now.

[Lex Luthier]

Every Boogie I owned was a disapointment in one way or another. I should have learned after the 2nd or third one, but like a big dummy, it took owning a few more for me to learn my lesson! :D

[Frankenstrat2]

Originally posted by Leonc
Well the two amps I probably liked the least (in recent memory) were my Koch Multitone and Bogner Ecstacy Classic. In both cases...I just could NOT relate to the clean tone. In both cases the overdriven sounds weren't what I thought of as good enough to outweigh the lack of what I consdier a great clean.

Leon is a true gentleman and left out the un-named amp builder who sent him an amp for 'review' that was shall we say....'disappointing'.
***************
For my part I bought a Fuchs mod Bassman with all the goodies that just wasn't for me. I can't blame Andy- lots of guys would love that amp- I just couldn't reconcile my playing style ( or lack therof) with that amps voice. I meant to bring it to Andy for some tweaks, but ended up selling it on the Emporium. The guy who bought it seems satisfied, and I moved on to the Aiken Intruder which I am still quite enamored with. Admittedly a totally different beast, but one that serves my needs better.

[Ed DeGenaro]

Mine shall remain un-named, bottomline it forced me to ditch the pick becuase the response was akin to dragging your pick across a sponge.
After my boss modded it it felt right, but the love was gone. :)
Sold it to Suhr.

[Timster]

Germino RockGrinder

Didn't sound anything like the clips, and was one loud mofo.

[VaughnC]

Originally posted by DerekMinnich
WOW, I can't believe it took someone 10 pages to post about a Komet being disappointing. Yes I am a Komet 60 player but I am not ignorant to the fact that it works for many and just flat out DOESN'T work for a lot of guys. I had a lot of trouble diggin' the Komet at first, then I sent it back to Hogy after some problems started to arise, and he found that previous owners had tampered with a cap and made a mod to the gradual to make it a little faster(I knew about this though). He said it was one of the worst sounding Komets in the shop he'd heard(a good thing, I knew it was gonna sound better when it got back to me). He sent it back and it sounded good, but I still had trouble on my own dialing it in to where I wanted it. It took some changing of other things in my setup to REALLY get into it and right now I'm getting my best tones ever.

Some of those changes....Strings, plectrum, preamp tubes, 6L6's(GT 6L6GE's)

Dean took care of me on the strings and pick....

Preamp tubes...I love the 12At7(Mullard ECC81) in the phase inverter, LPS in v2.....and a mullard ECC83 in v1.

From what I've found Komets are very sensitive to these changes....at least with strats. I find them most sensitive to the strings though....the Snake Oils don't have any irritating frequencies and they really bond well with my Chapin and the Komet loves em.

Hopefully you can give one a try again for a decent amount of time...it took me QUITE a while to get what I wanted and I've got it.

I was really surprised no one said what you did sooner though Jarrett.

In my tone chase & a few tough economic periods, I've owned five Komet 60's and, while they all sounded subtley different, I can honestly say that I never heard a bad one. However, when I got my first K60, I quickly found out that I didn't care for the amp with EL34's and came very close to sending the amp back...until I installed a good set of 6L6's (blackplates)....which evoked a big "WOW" with my favorite Strat. Preamp tubes also make a difference but it's more like fine tuning than the big EL34/6L6 difference. Another interesting thing I find with the K60 are the rainbow of colors available with a minimum amount of controls. Especially with a Strat and being able to seperate the treble from the twinkle with the treble & presence controls....even 1/16 of a turn can make a big difference. And when you factor in the high cut control and the mode switch, there are many tonal possibilities to be discovered. But, as we all know, no amp will be all things to all players because our needs and ears are different.

So, for me, an EL34 equipped Komet 60 was a disappointment. BUT, with a good set of 6L6's, it has become the best amp I've ever played. Strange, but true :eek: ....

[JoeB63]

Univalve -- Maybe it just needs more valves ;)

No offense Ed.

[Dave LaP]

If this survey doesn't demonstrate how differently we all perceive amplifiers then I don't know what does. If we put all the amps mentioned in a list as major dissapointments it would read like a Who's Who of the boutique amp world!!!!

Ain't life mysterious sometimes?

:p

[Sam Evans]

How true, Dave. How true.

Sam

[Ed DeGenaro]

Originally posted by JoeB63
Univalve -- Maybe it just needs more valves ;)

No offense Ed.
None taken.

[Tag]

Originally posted by Dave LaP
If this survey doesn't demonstrate how differently we all perceive amplifiers then I don't know what does. If we put all the amps mentioned in a list as major dissapointments it would read like a Who's Who of the boutique amp world!!!!

Ain't life mysterious sometimes?

:p
Not a Bruno of any type on the list. :eek: :AOK

[MikeyG]

I was going to post but I don't want to disrupt my yin yang this close to bedtime.

[JoeB63]

Originally posted by Tag
Not a Bruno of any type on the list. :eek: :AOK

No, but that's probably because very few of us have ever played one.

I sure haven't, but I'd bet I'd be disappointed because there's been so much Bruno hype here.

[iluvstrats]

Originally posted by wichita
Sam Evans
smarter than a monkey

Registered: Jan 2002
Location:
Posts: 562
Dr. Z Prescription. I tried two, and they both sounded flat to me.

Sam



Double DITO. Glad you said it first...maybe I won't get hate mail over this now...


I knew that Lou would have to come up with some D13 thing....If It disspointed you that it didn't change the way you play or cook you waffles or something then maybe I could see that....you seem to be the only one that didn't like it a lot but everybody has their own thing....Lou in all seriousness what amps lead tone is your fave??

I'm another one that the didn't gel with the ERT 33. Not a bad amp but after a week with it and 3 gigs, I came to the conclusion I just preferred my Route 66. Several friend/fans after hearing me play through the ERT said they preferred the tones I got through the Route 66 and I had to agree.

As you know it's all different stokes for different folks.

The other amp that didn't do it for me was the Komet. Too modern sounding for my tastes.

[John Phillips]

Originally posted by Dave LaP
If we put all the amps mentioned in a list as major dissapointments it would read like a Who's Who of the boutique amp world!!!!

Ain't life mysterious sometimes?

:p
And still not a Peavey mentioned anywhere on the thread. ;)

[Wayne]

Originally posted by John Phillips
And still not a Peavey mentioned anywhere on the thread. ;)

Well, I can remedy that. A long time ago I purchased a Peavey Bandit. I've been playing guitar 37 years and the first 14 years was primarily acoustic. When I got together with a new group of musicians, an electric guitar and amp became necessary. There began my slide into moral turpitude in search of a killer electric guitar sound.

The $210 I spent on the Bandit was a lot of money for me at the time and I was in 7th heaven and I played it for quite awhile and enjoyed it. Then, other guitarists started jamming with us and I started noticing their pedals. It became apparent that my Bandit couldn't get the lead sound that others were getting so I bought a Boss OD pedal.

Then I heard others playing tube amps and liked the sound a lot. I read up on it and learned about compression so I bought a compressor. Of course I ended up adding a wah wah, a chorus, a phaser and a delay. That was a lot of money tied up in the amp and pedals for a guy with not much money.

Still not being able to get the sound I wanted with the Peavey Bandit and effects pedals, and having heard others play with tube amps, I decided I needed a tube amp to get a great sound so I went out and bought a used red-knobbed twin :confused: Needless to say, that experiment ended badly and I sold it.

I harkened back to my first amp, an Ampeg Gemini I, that my Dad helped me buy in 8th grade. I used it to amplify my Martin 018 with a sound-hole pickup. I loved the reverb on that amp. In retrospect, it was a decent amp to use for an acoustic guitar. I'd sold it to raise money for college. But thinking of Ampeg, and wanting something better than the red-knobbed twin, I bought an Ampeg VL-503 which was a pretty cool amp. One thing led to another though and I sold that amp as I started to zero in on non-MV tube amps.

Moving the story forward, I now find myself with this compliment of amps that I'm certainly very happy with:

Siegmund Midnight Special with Celestion Alnico Blue (2003)

Aiken Invader Combo with Celestion G12H-30 (2001)

Deluxe Reverb Reissue with Reverend 1250 speaker (1998) - soon to be gutted and changed to a PTP amp with Mercury iron

Tone King Continental Head and 2 x 12 Cab (1996)

Fender Princeton Reverb - Restored (1971)

Ampeg Gemini I with Weber AP12B - Restored (1967) - not my original one

Gibson EH-150 (1938) with a field coil speaker - Amazing condition

Marshall Acoustic Soloist (1995) - I still play plenty of acoustic guitar

Anyway, that's a long way of saying that the Peavey Bandit was a big disappointment once I knew what the hell was going on with amps.

Wayne

[Tag]

Originally posted by JoeB63
No, but that's probably because very few of us have ever played one.

I sure haven't, but I'd bet I'd be disappointed because there's been so much Bruno hype here.

Joe, You are welcome to try my UG 30 or CT anytime you are in the area. My money says you will not be disappointed, and HAVE to have one. As I have said. These amps stand out above all at Ultra. No BS.

[NKBC]

I was flamed big time and accused of being anti-tube for this on the HC forum but...

I wonder to what extent people are disappointed with certain amps because so many of them come with lackluster tubes or were otherwise in less-than-optimum condition (bias, etc.)?

I like and have owned a number of tube amps so I am not anti-tubes. Actually, it is just a frustration I have with SOME tube amps. Here's the scenario:

1. I order or bring home an amp that I like or think I will like.

2. Hear some tones that I think are at least ok.

3. Then the dilemma: do I risk an additional $60 to $100 on new tubes hoping it will sound better?

I usually opt not to buy the new tubes simply because that does not add to the resale value of an amp when put on ebay. I've lost money answering #3 in the affirmative. You guys may have a lot of cash to spend on amps but I usually don't.

Just a thought I had when I read about all these amps that didn't live up to expectations.

[JonF]

I think you make some good points. I was satisfied, but now overly impressed with the tones coming out of my Rivera when I first bought it. I swapped out the Sovtek 12AX7WA's and WB's that filled all the preamp slots with a mix containing a GE, RFT, Jan Phillips, JJ, and a Chinese tube and it made a world of difference!

- Jonathan

Originally posted by NoKingButChrist
I was flamed big time and accused of being anti-tube for this on the HC forum but...

I wonder to what extent people are disappointed with certain amps because so many of them come with lackluster tubes or were otherwise in less-than-optimum condition (bias, etc.)?

[Mark C]

Originally posted by John Phillips
And still not a Peavey mentioned anywhere on the thread. ;)

To be disappointed with something means that you expect it to be of quality, then you find out it doesn't live up to what you expected. How then, can any knowledgeable player be disappointed with a Peavey?;)

[tacorivers]

Sweet vindication for Lou! It is possible that someone doesn't like a d/13 amp?

Look, when someone comes on here attacking someone's review of an amp, it makes them, and sometimes the actual builder, look real petty and childish.

I continue to be amazed at the emotional response to a product that you did not build.

[JoeB63]

Back to the /13 controversy...

I have heard (And played through) Lance's /13 amps. I thought they sounded great and I didn't hear any harshness to the tone. Not my favorite amps, but very nice.

I also listened to Jeff's clips here and I I do agree with Lou that there's some (actually, significant) harshness to the high-end that I don't like. But that's just based on what I like to hear. I could see how that tone work well under the right circumstances. However, I would never consider buying that amp if my only experience was hearing Jeff's clips (despite Jeff's fine playing).

Now back to your regular TV programming...

[RichKelley]

Originally posted by splatt
didja ever try it w/a celestion blue openback cab, at 20watts w/the fx-loop boost engaged, treble down to about noon, bass up to about 5 o'clock, ('clean' channel only), w/a5y3 rectifier tube?
just wondering.
dt / spltrcl
I tried it with the Blue, clean channel, treble and bass at many different settings. Still didn't do much for me.

The amp is definitely well built and obviously we all hear these things differently, but I really tried to like that amp. At some point, though, if you have to work really hard to just to get a tone that you like at all, then it's probably time to move on.

Within 30 sec. with the Rambler I had tones I liked. I discover more good tones with it still.

The Tone King was sold to a guy that told me he loved it. Sent me a couple of emails to that effect. So, everyone's happy.

And Splatt, thanks for the Tone King tips. I remember when you were helping me out a bit when I had the amp. I do appreciate it.

Rich

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by procos
Biggest disappointment for me was playing a Divided by 13 ERT33. I really wanted to love it but thought the tone was so so at best. And yes it was Lou's ERT33 I played. Very brittle and harsh high end.

Chuck

Like I said, I've heard some people get amazing tones out of my amp, and some people get some so so tones. Your approach, technique, attack, nuances, etc. all have a lot to do with the end result. Don't believe me? Just listen to Lance's clips, then listen to mine, then listen to the McCartney DVD, then to Jason Orme on the Alanis DVD, etc... all different shades of the 33.

So, what can we all learn from this--you can't really go by clips. Better to play one for yourself. Anyone who's curious as to how the amp sounds in person is more than welcome to come by and give it a whirl.

Also, the true test, IMO, is how the 33 sounds in a band context...after all, that's what it's made for. And the amp KILLS in a band context...it sounds big and full, sits perfectly in the mix, and punches through beautifully for solos. Fred built these amps for people interested in making music...and oh what sweet music they make...

peace
-jeff

[saros141]

Originally posted by Mark C
To be disappointed with something means that you expect it to be of quality

Well, one time I bought a really cheap tube amp from the 60's, the kind that doesn't have a power transformer. I didn't expect it to be high quality, but I was still disappointed when it SHOCKED THE CRAP OUT OF ME :mad:

I know what you mean though.

[GM1]

For me, most disappointing amps have been the Mesa Boogie MK4 ( 10 years ago) and more recntly Two Rock Topaz.

The Topaz just did not sound like what I expected, I wanted a tone like a Robben Ford Dumble. The Two Rock Low Gain E Pro sounded much closer, so I sold the Topaz and kept the E Pro.

[TNJ]

I'll just say one or two or three or so things:
The worst amp I've ever owned (to my ears) was an old Peavey Bandit combo. Sounded like total a$$. I also owned a red knob Twin a few years later...same result as the Bandit...just more of it (212 vs. 112 of a$$). These were my findings.
I am not a fan of any Mesa products, but one...the '94 Tremoverb combo was one of the finest amps I've owned. It was also one of the heaviest. So, it's gone...but not for lack of luscious tones.
I've played Leon 's /13 wet-dry rig. Nice....very, very nice. I didnt make it sound the way he could, though. His rig, his tweaks...and that is another point to bring up here. Sometimes it takes a bit of tweakage to make a rig work for you. Just like Vaughn's take on the Komet...swap out EL34's, swap in 6L6's..and voila!

Finally...this thread only asked our opinions of which amp ended up being our biggest disappointment. It didnt stipulate that we personally attack anyone who disagreed with our choices, or get into any pi$$ing matches about why a said disappointment in an amp had merit. It only asked what amp(s) we didnt like, but expected to. Although I realize the inherent warfare lurking under the surface in threads like this...I'd think we could put aside all that negativity, and just stick to answering the question contained herein. I know Lou personally, and he's one of the nicest guys around. And, so am I, for that matter. :D I dont know the other chaps who have chose to take issue with Lou. I have nothing against anybody here, though. So...why dont we drop the bickering and get on with the matter at hand, gentlemen...

Rant (mild, though it be) over...
S.
j

[Teleplayer]

Back in 1983 or 1984, I bought a brand spanking new Boogie MK III. Biggest POS I have ever owned. Most tempremental amp on the planet - ever. Horrible tone, anytime, all the time.

I loved a Dr. Z 2x12 Maz 38 Senior, for about a month, that I used to own. Really liked it the first few times I used it with my band at practice. Then, I got tired of the shrill definition from that rig. Sold it; only took about six weeks of constant listing on the 'net to make the sale......and that was at a reasonable price. I have played through most of Z's models: Ghia, Z28, Maz Jr., Maz Sr., Maz Invasion, Route 66, Perscription and KT45. I know some guys love Z's amps - I just don't "get it" when it comes to his gear - definitely not in my tone wheelhouse.

[riffmeister]

Mesa Boogie Mark IV in the lat 90's. Despite changes in tubes, speakers, & cab, too harsh/sterile for my taste. I was ecstatic when a 50W TopHat Emplexador arrived to replace it!

Also, I had a Carvin X100 (or somesuch model) in the early 90's. The only positive attribute of that amp was that it was freakin' LOUD. The finest tone I heard from that amp was the sound of it slipping into the shipping carton that was used when I sold it! :D

[shallbe]

Originally posted by hansoloist
Biggest disappointment -- Getting my Marshall 50watt Plexi RI back from Harry Kolbe. The guy completely ruined the amp, and even after it was modded back to stock, it never sounded quite the same as it originally did. What a waste of money. Harry Kolbe -- Marshall Wrecker.

Lou, my /13 clips hardly have a harshness in the high end. Why--because the amp doesn't. If I remember correctly, Procos said that the tone in my clips was quite different than the tone he heard out of your amp. Maybe it did have a problem after all... I get nothing but fat, sweet, singing lead tone.

For what it's worth, I recently talked to someone who heard the Constellation side by side with the 33, and they felt the Connie, while very gainy and complex, sounded thin, nasal, bright and harsh in comparison. YMMV.

peace
-jeff

Jeff, I gotta call you out on that last paragraph. I believe the thread is about direct experience with an amp---not your unnamed buddy's related experience. While you are at it, why don't you tell us what his wife thought about the comparison?

I see no value in posting negatively about an amp you have not played or heard yourself. That would be as valid as me relating some story about the Divided by 13's, which I have not heard. If YOU had A/B'd the amps, it would be of merit.

[6AM]

I'm not sure why everyones so defensive about Divided By 13. No amp works for everyone.

Anyway, here's my list :

Bogner Ecstasy 101b : Bought this thinking it was going to be the be all and end all of amps. I didn't like it. I thought the cleans were horrible and the gain channels were less than amazing. There seemed to be a good amp in there somewhere but it felt choked or something.

Bogner Ecstasy Classic : I bought this thinking it was going to resolve the problems with the 101b I didn't like. I liked the clean channel, but I actually liked the gain channels less than the 101b.

Diezel Herbert : Again, I bought this thinking it was going to be the best amp ever. I didn't like it. The clean channel was pretty good, I couldn't get a good tone out of the mid gain channel, and the high gain channel had a weird flub to it, especially when palm muted.

[hansoloist]

Originally posted by shallbe
Jeff, I gotta call you out on that last paragraph. I believe the thread is about direct experience with an amp---not your unnamed buddy's related experience. While you are at it, why don't you tell us what his wife thought about the comparison?

I see no value in posting negatively about an amp you have not played or heard yourself. That would be as valid as me relating some story about the Divided by 13's, which I have not heard. If YOU had A/B'd the amps, it would be of merit.

If you really want to know what his wife thought about it, I'm sure I could get you the info. Value it or not...no biggie.

peace
-jefff

[Braciola]

Originally posted by shallbe
Jeff, I gotta call you out on that last paragraph. I believe the thread is about direct experience with an amp---not your unnamed buddy's related experience. While you are at it, why don't you tell us what his wife thought about the comparison?

I see no value in posting negatively about an amp you have not played or heard yourself. That would be as valid as me relating some story about the Divided by 13's, which I have not heard. If YOU had A/B'd the amps, it would be of merit.
Lighten up, geez.
FWIW, having played the Komet, I do find some validity in what he said.

It's so predictable, when someone here has anything negative to say about a Komet, some folks get so darn defensive:confused:

[big mike]

Or Dumble, Or %13, or THD, or (Insert your amp here)......

Things a bit tense around here lately.

I just try to remember that we all have a different opinion, and we always think ours is the correct one. So for everyone that LOVES, absolutely cannot live without "X" brand amp, there is someone who wouldn't use it for a boat anchor.


Now, for the hell of it, I add to my list the Mesa Lonestar. I didn;t buy one, but I was quite dissapointed when I played it and it didn't sound wonderful, or even good, **TO MY EARS, AND FOR MY PLAYING****

[Tag]

Originally posted by procos
Dom,
You can say the same thing about the Divided by 13 guys. All this bullshit started because Lance got pissed that Lou said that the Divided by 13 was his biggest dissappointment. The thread is asking what is your biggest dissappointment. So Lou says his biggest dissappointment was a Divided by 13. Big deal right? Well for most people but Lance had to come on here and start trashing Lou. That is bullshit. If Lou had started a thread trashing Divided by 13's that would be one thing but Lou gave his opinion on the Divided by 13 being his biggest disappointment and Lance get's his panties and I do mean panties in a bunch.

Who really gives a shit who likes what amp. I happen to love Bogner XTC's and I think when you get mine you will love it too. But alot of guys here have said it is their biggest disappointment. Big deal you don't see me posting all the professionals that use them. To be honest I take no creed in the fact that a bunch of pro's use them who cares. Alot of pro's use Peavey's and other amps I don't care for you don't see me running out and buying one.

Lance needs to get over his little problem with people not liking the Divided by 13's and realize it really doesn't matter if Lou or someone else doesn't like it. As long as he loves it who cares.

I have no problem at all with your comment's Dom I just have been holding back from posting but couldn't bare it any longer.

Chuck


THHWWWWIIIIIITTTTTTT (Sound of arrow hitting bullseye) ;)

[shallbe]

Originally posted by Braciola
Lighten up, geez.
FWIW, having played the Komet, I do find some validity in what he said.

It's so predictable, when someone here has anything negative to say about a Komet, some folks get so darn defensive:confused:

Regardless of which amp, I just don't see the point in posting someone else's views rather than your own. The fans of Fred's work would react the same way, and rightfully so, if I told a similar tale that was negative to their amp of choice--even though I had never heard or played it. This has nothing to do with any amp company.

Defensive? Probably. I joined this forum years ago after lurking strictly to defend the slagging of a Jamison amp--which I own and love, by someone who had never played it. If you have played it, your view is as vaild and important as anyone elses. Secondhand, unattributed comments are worth shit, IMO.

[big mike]

Originally posted by Teleplayer
Back in 1983 or 1984, I bought a brand spanking new Boogie MK III. Biggest POS I have ever owned. Most tempremental amp on the planet - ever. Horrible tone, anytime, all the time.

I loved a Dr. Z 2x12 Maz 38 Senior, for about a month, that I used to own. Really liked it the first few times I used it with my band at practice. Then, I got tired of the shrill definition from that rig. Sold it; only took about six weeks of constant listing on the 'net to make the sale......and that was at a reasonable price. I have played through most of Z's models: Ghia, Z28, Maz Jr., Maz Sr., Maz Invasion, Route 66, Perscription and KT45. I know some guys love Z's amps - I just don't "get it" when it comes to his gear - definitely not in my tone wheelhouse.


I'm with you on the MKIII. Ugg. I still have nightmares.

Disagree on the Z stuff, but that's cool, we probably have different styles. Curiousity, what are you playing through now?

[Teleplayer]

Originally posted by big mike blues
I'm with you on the MKIII. Ugg. I still have nightmares.

Disagree on the Z stuff, but that's cool, we probably have different styles. Curiousity, what are you playing through now?

Matching custom-finished TopHats: 2x12 Club Royale (tube rectified), 1x12 deep cab Club Royale (tube rectified), and 2x12 Super Deluxe. I have owned 7 TopHats.

[big mike]

Originally posted by Teleplayer
Matching custom-finished TopHats: 2x12 Club Royale (tube rectified), 1x12 deep cab Club Royale (tube rectified), and 2x12 Super Deluxe. I have owned 7 TopHats.

I hear great things about Top Hat amps. Very cool.

Thanks for sharing the info!

[Scott Peterson]

Guys,

I am freezing the thread for a few hours this afternoon.

I will open it back up in a bit, but am warning folks right here - check your emotions and think before you post.

Folks believe what they do; you can't and shouldn't try to change their mind on a discussion forum. Just beause someone slams the amp you love doesn't make your love of the amp somehow less valid. And you do not need to validate your love by showing how many others love your amp as proof.

It is a little bit silly when you step back and look at it. Really.

Look at this as a chance to chill out. Relax.

Thread open later this afternoon.

[Scott Peterson]

Thread back open as promised.

Please refrain from getting personal or emotional.

[Latif]

For me it was a Mesa studio22. Dark lifeless cleans and muddy OD channel. My guitar teacher loved that amp though and got good Santana tones out of it. I just sounded like a worse version of me.

Latif

[FlyingVBlues]

Mesa Blue Angel -- sounded like a dying frog in heat.

FVB

[Deaj]

Originally posted by FlyingVBlues
Mesa Blue Angel -- sounded like a dying frog in heat.

FVB

Mesa probably won't use this in their ad copy :D

[JPERRYROCKS]

Originally posted by shallbe
[B If you have played it, your view is as vaild and important as anyone elses. Secondhand, unattributed comments are worth shit, IMO. [/B]

Great point. I think that pretty much sums it up.

Also, anytime you do something by hand, whether it's making custom guitars or amplifiers, 1 or 2 may slip through the cracks and not sound as good as the others. As far as the /13 comments, I've never played one. But no maker is perfect. There may be a few out there that don't sound as good as the others that get such rave reviews.

[Sudsysul]

Fuchs ODS 50 head. My shortcomings probably, not the amp's. I twisted and tweaked and fiddled myself crazy for a few weeks, all for naught.

[tacorivers]

Now that we're back from time out (a great idea Mr. Peterson!), my list would include:

Mesa Blue Angel: Its not a bad amp, I just didn't find anything special about the sound. Overall, I thought it was pretty lifeless.

Univalve: I say this only because you really need to invest in tubes and several cabinets to reach its full potential. I've always said that this amp would be a great addition to an already equipped studio. Also, the clean sound is not so good.

[v-verb]

One thing I'm glad about is that there were some who did not love the Div 13 amps (like any amps I guess).

At least I can stop obsessing about trying one of those out...

[Dave Orban]

When I got back into playing about 8 years ago, I got one of the new Vibrolux "Custom" amps. I was not particularly impressed with it at the time, but I'd be interested in playing through one now to see if my opinion has changed as my playing has changed...

[BattleAngel]

I'll tell you that the most consistantly disappointing amp for me is the Mesa Mark IV. I can't get a good sound out of it for the life of me- I'd rather play a Crate.

But then some people, like John Petrucci, can make them sound good.

[Sam Evans]

Originally posted by v-verb
One thing I'm glad about is that there were some who did not love the Div 13 amps (like any amps I guess).

At least I can stop obsessing about trying one of those out...

Nice try, Nigel. Like I'm ever going to stop pestering you about mine.

Sam

[v-verb]

Originally posted by Sam Evans
Nice try, Nigel. Like I'm ever going to stop pestering you about mine.

Sam

LOL!!!!

Ok Sam, how about this - you can send it up to me and I promise to give it an unbiased review - I can ship my BnT to you at the same time!

[prsflame]

Mesa Boogie Maverick (Sounded very falt and lifeless to my ears. It also had tons of issues and was in the shop more than it was out on stage with me)

Two Rock Onyx: Played it extensively. I LOVE the gain/lead channel, but I dislike the cleans.

[v-verb]

I LOVE this thread!!!!

I can remove the Onyx from my list of must try amps too!:dude

[Roccaforte Amps]

Im still trying to understand the point of this thread.
Why is it important to know what somebody else didn't like,
and why is it a problem if somebody didn't like it?

Not trying to start anything here, I just read the whole thread.
Curious. Doug

[TNJ]

It's my opinion that the starter of this thread DID want to start something...and he completely succeeded. Otherwise, this information is totally useless.
My .02,
S.
j

[Dave LaP]

Doug,

I think that all posters have gone through the exhilirating experience of finding an amp they think is just right for them and then experiencing the big dissapointment of finding out that they actually hate it.

To me it's kind of a rite of passage in most amp hounds gear chase. The point, I guess, is that it's comforting to know that it has happened to others too.

I think the thread is so interesting becuase there are so many top of the line amps listed. If nothing else it illustrates what a picky group we are and how different ears and perceptions can be.

[v-verb]

Originally posted by procos
V-Verb,
No you can't I find the Onyx and Opal to be the best 2 amps on the planet. And that is for both clean and overdrive. I find the clean on the Onyx to be superior to just about any amp I have tried except for maybe the Bruno Cowtipper.

PEACE,

Chuck

OK Chuck - back to square 1.

And Doug R - I think this thread illustrates that we all hear amps differently so it is kind of silly to say what is the best amp or what is the worst amp.


Cheers

Nigel

[wichita]

I agree.

[PSaulino]

Yet ANOTHER vote for the Mesa Mark III. I think we all gave in to the Ad copy in GP (billows of sustainy, creamy sounds!!!) I could not wait to get one, even offed my Mark IIC. The dreaded "blue code" circa 1987. Hey - it was supposed to be 3 amps in one! Fender, Marshall, and Mesa!

I'll never forget the first gig, first tune. About 30 seconds into it I was like .... OH MY GOD! I just flushed $1200 !!!!

My opnion of mesa never recovered from that.

P.

[big mike]

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Im still trying to understand the point of this thread.
Why is it important to know what somebody else didn't like,
and why is it a problem if somebody didn't like it?

Not trying to start anything here, I just read the whole thread.
Curious. Doug

Probably because if kept civil, it lets you get an idea where other people are coming from. Kind of entertaining to discuss likes/dislike and the reasoning if people keep an open mind and don't get T'd off.

How ya doing Doug?

Cheers,
Mike

[gazeglow]

well, i think i agree with DaveLaP - there is potential for good stories on how things didn't work out for folks. that just happens, it's the nature of things. i just hate it when people start slamming amps they know other people like, then someone takes it personally and it makes the thread begin to resemble something we'd find on HC.

anyways... here's mine.

i once had a budda stringmaster head. GREAT amp, with possibly the best clean sound i've come across. i knew the amp's potential, but it didn't sound good at all through my closed back cab loaded with jensen clones. it's my own fault - i just didn't have a cab that went well with it, and i was trying to use the amp for sounds it wasn't designed for, so i sold it, perhaps foolishly. i'd be interested in picking up another (solely to take advantage of its beautiful cleans) if i ever get an alnico loaded 212 to suit it.

[PerryR]

Personally, I have NEVER been dissapointed by an amp. I've had plenty that didn't sound the way I had hoped, but not once was I dissapointed. I mean, I by amps without playing them first... how in the world could I be dissapointed! They're blind dates dudes!

Now of the amps I bought after trying them, well they went home and sounded just as I remembered from the music store. But generally over time I move on.

Without getting a chance to plug in, I am simply rolling the dice and hoping. So it didn't sound as I had hoped.. thats my fault, and the amps reputation certainly shouldn't suffer because "all mighty "I"" didn't hear what I had hoped...

This is kinda like asking painters "what color just doesn't do it for ya?". Its pointless, its application. If I picked the wrong color, then its my fault. Its application, and buying before trying is a crap shoot, its my own fault if it doesn't work for me. But in the end, I can find something good to say about any amp... and thats what I prefer to remember.

[Sam Evans]

Originally posted by v-verb
LOL!!!!

Ok Sam, how about this - you can send it up to me and I promise to give it an unbiased review - I can ship my BnT to you at the same time!

DEAL!

[Red Planet]

I think you see a lot of interest in this thread because many of us have been down the road of disapointment and are curious about others path. It is different for all of us some like it one way and some the other. Heck my wife likes peanutbutter and tomato sandwiches but you couldnt make me eat one. There should be a The ones that got away thread also. I have had many of those usually because I cant afford to own them all at the same time.

My dislike list goes like this --

I believe it was a Twin II it was one of those Blackface channel switching things. I never could get a good sound out of it. I tried everything it just wouldnt do it. No good clean, dirty, or in between.

A Boogie Mark I reissue. Sounded good but too much amp in one tiny little box. It was flying apart constantly and when you went to half power it didnt sound good anymore.

Dr Z Maz 18 Jr 2x12 Combo. Everyone was saying it sounded great with a Tele. Me no think so. Everyone was saying it sounded great with pedals. Mine just seemed to shut down with any type distortion pedals. It seemed to be working OK but maybe there was something not quite right about it. It had a good clean sound but when you cranked it up to get it dirty I didnt like it. It was to freakin raspy. I could not get that high end rasp out of the dirty sound. I tried different speakers and it didnt change a bit. It sounded the same with G12H30's as it did with V30's and those speakers really sound different to me.

Boogie Maverick. Had one I liked got rid of it in hard times later got another and couldnt stand it. The first one came with Greenbacks in it from Boogie new. The second one had V30's in it. Maybe that had something to do with it.

Boogie Mark II Hardwood 1x12 combo could not get the midrange out of that thing. Awful!

Marshall TSL 100 Head. Liked it at first and then grew out of it. Modern day Marshall 4x12 cabs suck Hate the sound of em. Ear piercing.

There are many amps out there that I do love just cant afford to have them all at the same time but I am taking donations.:D

[bjm007]

Looks like I'm late to the dance, but I seemed to hate my Boogie MKII. So did the rest of the guys in the band... No "sing" :mad:

[Roccaforte Amps]

Originally posted by big mike blues
Probably because if kept civil, it lets you get an idea where other people are coming from. Kind of entertaining to discuss likes/dislike and the reasoning if people keep an open mind and don't get T'd off.

How ya doing Doug?

Cheers,
Mike






Im good thank you, turned 42 today.
Steve Snider's Birthday as well, Happy Birthday Steve!


This isn't directed at you, but I find this thread
to be a complete waste of bandwidth.
Lets talk about what we love, and why.

For me, I love tube amplifiers, period!
I own many different types, some crunchy,
some creamy, some stiff, some clean,
some flat out raunchy!

I can't own one amp, I need many to give
me options. Depending on my mood swing,
It may even have to be my little Crate GFX15
solid state bedroom amp.
That's right, my bedroom amp is a SS Crate amp.
It kicks ass, and I never expect anything more from it
than its capable of.

Do I corck sniff?
Only a fine Chianti (Tuscany my fav) "fah fah fah fah fah!"
Got any Fava beans?

[Frankenstrat2]

I don't know Doug- I didn't see it as a waste of bandwidth- I kind of enjoyed some insight.
I was actually thinking that since it was presented as a 'Survey' the originator of the thread should have tallyed the results. From what I read, the overwhelming winner (or loser, in fact) would be the Mesa Boogie line.
Other than a few people getting upset when their faves were someone else's disappointment, sometimes negative reviews are as important (or moreso) than positives.
The two people that cited Fuchs as a disappointment (I was one) made an effort not to slam the amp, just their ability to feel comfortable playing through it. Conversly- the Mesa products mentioned seem to have been uniformly condemned as sounding like doo-doo.
Personal attacks and emotions aside, one of the coolest things about this non-affiliated independent Forum is the ability to call 'em as we sees 'em, and agree to disagree, as long as we remain civil about it.

Oh- and Happy Birthday, kid!

[Tag]

Originally posted by procos
Frankenstrat I complete agree. Though I love having Doug as a contributor and don't want him to take offense to this I like this thread for the same reasons. And I feel it is necessary to understand certain people's ideas on tone to see which amps they don't like as well as which amps they like.
Chuck

Agree with both Chuck and Franknstrat.

Happy birthday to both Doug and Steve as well!!!

[big mike]

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps


Only a fine Chianti (Tuscany my fav) "fah fah fah fah fah!"
Got any Fava beans?

Hahahahahaaaa!!!!!!


Well Hello Clarisse! I love those movie!

Happy BD to you and Steve.

Everyone: Aint it cool that we got a place like this to disagree at?

Good or bad, you'll hear plenty of opinions. :cool:

[Frankenstrat2]

Originally posted by procos
Frankenstrat I complete agree. Though I love having Doug as a contributor and don't want him to take offense to this I like this thread for the same reasons. And I feel it is necessary to understand certain people's ideas on tone to see which amps they don't like as well as which amps they like.

Bottom line is as much as we think we make a difference in the buying patterns of boutique buyers we don't. We might influence it less than 2%. So it really doesn't matter what we say in the end. I find that if I want to buy a new boutique amp in the Dr Z line or Bogner line and go to my favorite dealer Fatsound I have wait a minimum of 4 weeks so it doesn't appear to me that any of these builders are hurting for orders.

Chuck

Well Chuck- I don't totally agree with you, however! LOL!
1. I doubt that Doug or any other builder feels 'threatened' by threads like this. I think a few of them might be wondering what was wrong with a particular amp (or the guys ears listening to it).
I think you underestimate the power of this medium in influencing the purchase or popularity of a new or established product.
A case in point might be the pedal market. When a buzz starts (TIM, V-Stack, Cot-50) I think the small builders are overwhlmed with response. That has to do with price-point, since many of us can easily blow a few C-note to check out a pedal.
On the pricier end of boutique amps- I think we rely on each other heavily for initial impressions of build quality, clips and reviews before most of us lay out the long green for something brand new or very pricy.
I know of two amps which when introduced were laughed off the Forum and nearly out of production. One probably deserved it, the other perhaps not. I know of several other amps that would never have attained the success they enjoy if they had not accumulated a loyal and vocal support group here.

[Roccaforte Amps]

Originally posted by procos
Frankenstrat I complete agree. Though I love having Doug as a contributor and don't want him to take offense to this I like this thread for the same reasons. And I feel it is necessary to understand certain people's ideas on tone to see which amps they don't like as well as which amps they like.

Bottom line is as much as we think we make a difference in the buying patterns of boutique buyers we don't. We might influence it less than 2%. So it really doesn't matter what we say in the end. I find that if I want to buy a new boutique amp in the Dr Z line or Bogner line and go to my favorite dealer Fatsound I have wait a minimum of 4 weeks so it doesn't appear to me that any of these builders are hurting for orders.

Chuck






Im not offended, I love you guys.
Its just that the net has so much
negativity, I hate to read it here.
As a player, I'd rather know
more about what people like,
and why.
Doug

[big mike]

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Im not offended, I love you guys.
Its just that the net has so much
negativity, I hate to read it here.
As a player, I'd rather know
more about what people like,
and why.
Doug

Makes sense Doug. I get where you are coming from.

But that's just me.

[shallbe]

Originally posted by Frankenstrat2
Well Chuck- I don't totally agree with you, however! LOL!
1. I doubt that Doug or any other builder feels 'threatened' by threads like this. I think a few of them might be wondering what was wrong with a particular amp (or the guys ears listening to it).
I think you underestimate the power of this medium in influencing the purchase or popularity of a new or established product.
A case in point might be the pedal market. When a buzz starts (TIM, V-Stack, Cot-50) I think the small builders are overwhlmed with response. That has to do with price-point, since many of us can easily blow a few C-note to check out a pedal.
On the pricier end of boutique amps- I think we rely on each other heavily for initial impressions of build quality, clips and reviews before most of us lay out the long green for something brand new or very pricy.
I know of two amps which when introduced were laughed off the Forum and nearly out of production. One probably deserved it, the other perhaps not. I know of several other amps that would never have attained the success they enjoy if they had not accumulated a loyal and vocal support group here.

I could not agree more. This is an influential forum. Many threads have thousands of views--if it is a positive thread about a new amp/pedal/speaker--it can have a large impact at no cost to the builder. Many of these guys operate with little or no marketing budgets. This can cause a huge spike in sales for the small shops (Dr.Z, Bogner and many others do not apply).

However, the reverse can be pretty tough. A new product reviewed negatively by an influential member of this forum (not me--I have no influence!) can squash sales, kill orders, etc. It has happened many times, where reviews here dramatically affected business. We've all bought something based upon what we read here--add that up and is is big $$$$$$$$ for many small shops.

I like to hear the good and bad--as long as it is first hand experience and we know the poster (no trolling).

[Roccaforte Amps]

Originally posted by Lou V
I guarantee this forum has a material impact on boutique amp companies. Bruno makes about 80 amps a year, and I am certain at least 10 of them have been sold because of this forum. Look at that company with the footswitch blendable channels (I forget the name), I know of two dealers who decided to not carry the line because of what happened here. I think boutique amps are marketed towards the demographics on this forum....90% of the stuff you see on stages is your typical GC stuff - and the internet is the perfect and cheap place to market these high end esoteric stuff. Honestly, I have to applaud Scott and Brian for keeping this place ad free, God knows they could make money selling ad space.






As a player,
I want to know about new products,
ad's don't bother me any.
As long as its not email spam, or trying to ram
something down my throat.
Doug

[JPERRYROCKS]

I don't think that a few negative posts can hurt sales as much as you think. A lot of people don't even know that a gear page exits. But I guess it would be crazy to think that what people say on here doesn't effect sales in some way. A lot of these companies are very small and an extra 2 or 3 orders every month can be the difference in staying in business or not.


I think it's somehat funny that this board seems to be domonated by 3 or 4 amp builders. That's not a negative on them. It's just the way they are. But most people conduct themselves in a professional way, so it's cool to hear from them from time to time. But I don't see Fred from /13 on here, Brain from Tophat, Mike from DR. Z. Reinhold from Bogner, or a lot of other top amp builders on the gear page that much, if ever.

I think it can actually hurt someones business by being on here TOO much. People start to think you have way too much time on your hands and not enough orders for you guitars and amps.

[Wayne]

Originally posted by JPERRYROCKS

I think it's somehat funny that this board seems to be domonated by 3 or 4 amp builders. That's not a negative on them. It's just the way they are. But most people conduct themselves in a professional way, so it's cool to hear from them from time to time. But I don't see Fred from /13 on here, Brain from Tophat, Mike from DR. Z. Reinhold from Bogner, or a lot of other top amp builders on the gear page that much, if ever.

I think it can actually hurt someones business by being on here TOO much. People start to think you have way too much time on your hands and not enough orders for you guitars and amps.

Boy-oh-boy, do I disagree with you on this! I think we're lucky to have talented amp designers/builders sharing information with us here. I think highly of them for doing so and their insightful comments help out this community. It wouldn't be the same without them and I hope more designers contribute here as well.

Wayne

[big mike]

Originally posted by Wayne
Boy-oh-boy, do I disagree with you on this! I think we're lucky to have talented amp designers/builders sharing information with us here. I think highly of them for doing so and their insightful comments help out this community. It wouldn't be the same without them and I hope more designers contribute here as well.

Wayne

+1.

not all have the head guy, buy have representatives that hang out and help like Perry with Dr Z, Ed with THD, etc.

This place wouldn't be the same without

Doug Roccaforte
Hogy
Randall Aiken
Andy Fuchs
PerryR
Ed Degenero (sp sorry!)
Bill Chapin

And so on and so forth.

I'm glad they're here. Many a wealth of knowledge they so generously share.

[tradarama]

By far the biggest dissapointment. I purchased it, returned it, then thought I had perhaps been too harsh on it. I bought another one years later...worse than I had remembered.

[lhallam]

Some people like AC/DC and Angus's tone, some people like Robben Ford and his tone. I happen to like Segovia and his tone.
Here's my point, I wouldn't not buy something soley based on other's opinions. I'm not interested in getting Angus or Robben tone. There are just too many variables, the biggest being someone's opinion and the kind of music they like.

John Cippolina had an outrageous setup and a crazy sound that worked for him. I wouldn't want it, but I dig Quicksilver all the same.

Another point is that plenty of great recordings were made with Boogies, Fenders and Marshalls. The sound fit the song. I wouldn't want to get an amp that sounds like the single release of The Beatles "Revolution" but it's a very fitting tone for the song.

Happy Birthday Gents.

[scottypeel]

I agree with the Mesa Maverick, and a few others, so I'll throw a new one in the mix: my biggest disappointment was the Bad Cat Hot Cat 15. I owned a Hot Cat 30 head and loved it, but sold it because of gigging needs at that time, knowing I would buy another. Setting up a studio, I opted for the 15, and although I was able to get the clean to a passable tone, the gain never sounded right to me, very constricted and midrangey - it actually got me into pedals (looking for a gain tone) it was so bad!!!
Rock On!

[Roccaforte Amps]

Originally posted by JPERRYROCKS
I don't think that a few negative posts can hurt sales as much as you think. A lot of people don't even know that a gear page exits. But I guess it would be crazy to think that what people say on here doesn't effect sales in some way. A lot of these companies are very small and an extra 2 or 3 orders every month can be the difference in staying in business or not.


I think it's somehat funny that this board seems to be domonated by 3 or 4 amp builders. That's not a negative on them. It's just the way they are. But most people conduct themselves in a professional way, so it's cool to hear from them from time to time. But I don't see Fred from /13 on here, Brain from Tophat, Mike from DR. Z. Reinhold from Bogner, or a lot of other top amp builders on the gear page that much, if ever.

I think it can actually hurt someones business by being on here TOO much. People start to think you have way too much time on your hands and not enough orders for you guitars and amps.







FYI, I've worked my company to a point
where I have the freedom to do
just about anything I want.
My orders are steady, and because I have
to clear out my email a few times a day,
my PC runs constantly.
It takes me no time to respond to your comments,
or offer you help if you asked for it.

[TNJ]

I think alot of folks lurk here, who are not members. I find this place to have folks from all over the planet. I also think this place does influence folks...it sure has me! I'm alot poorer (but richer in gear) because I pretty much hang here when I'm online. There are a couple of other good sites out there...but this place resonates with me more than any other cyberhangout. I've come to be friends with a few of the members...and that reinforces my participation and interest even more. It's a good place...a decent place.
I just think negative comments are...negative. :)
I agree with Doug, and those other members who have chimed in about keeping it light, and not using too many trashy adjectives when describing a disappointing amp. You never know whose rig you're peeing on.
S.
j

ps
I'm too lazy to go back and modify my eval of the Peavey Bandit and the Red Knob Twin...so I (partially) take back my dissing of those two...well, the Twin anyway (but only because ROBBEN makes them sound good!).


:p

[Josh O]

Originally posted by pittster
Mesa Subway Rocket reverb

+x (not sure if anyone else picked this one, not about to read through the 18 pages of posts!)

What an absolutely horrible amp.

[Greazygeo]

I don't buy that many amps for myself. My amp disappointments are fairly short.

Bogner Ubershall. From the ads, it sounded like it was going to be one thing and totally was not.

Bogner 101A. Three channels of so so tones. The Blue channel was "almost" there...the other 2 needed serious work.

I try to give the amps a fair amount of time to grow on me, the uber took 4 months to leave and the 101 took a year.

George

[Brian D]

I've only owned a couple of amps, but the biggest disappointment I had was a Fender Hot Rod DeVille 4x10. It was too damn loud for me, and I actually preferred the tone of the Fender Hot Rod Deluxe (with one 12" speaker) that I traded in for it.

[Ian Anderson]

Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier

Yuk.

Couldn't get it to work no matter what tubes I put in there. I do have to say their customer service is great!

[vladorg]

Rivera M-100 head.That thing was super heavy with way too much tweakability and I coudn't get a single sound that I really liked from it.Thus,my Rivera experience eded there.

[Fred McMurray]

I've had several bummers, but not too bad. The Budda Superdrive 30 combo I bought used was a PTP model. I think the problem was the speaker, a Celestion V30--it just did not suit that amp. Anyway, I liked the individual sounds and the cabinet-switching feature, but it was tough to set it up as a true Channel-Switching amp, and it sometimes got a little lost in the mix live. Very good for studio work, though, but I really needed it to be a dedicated live amp. Didn't lose a dime on it when I sold it, which was nice.

The Fender Hot Rod Deluxe had decent cleans and has the potential to be a passable amp (again, the speaker issue + a couple of other things), but it just wasn't my thing...

Fred

[frank52]

i have never had an amp that i did not like for one reason or another. they are all valid for what they are. in my younger days i raced rail dragsters with some friends as partners, we had 20-30k tied up in that thing and we pulled it to the races with a beat up 52 chevy pickup that we all wanted to drive more than the rail job. i must insist that this particular board has the most talanted builders and players on the face of the earth and i take each and evey comment very seriously. it is the only exclusive club i will ever be able to afford to be a member of. thanks to you all!! from a real "gear head"

[Dave LaP]

Originally posted by Roccaforte Amps
Im not offended, I love you guys.
Its just that the net has so much
negativity, I hate to read it here.
As a player, I'd rather know
more about what people like,
and why.
Doug

To understand why people love what they love it helps to know why they hate what they hate. Yin and Yang. Love can not exist without hate. I think I heard that while watching Kung Fu one time....

[Mark Robinson]

The only amp that I've actually purchased and regretted was an early run JCM 800 2210. This was pre-internet, about a year after they came out. A good friend had one and I liked it. So I found one in the Recycler. Went out and tried it. The dirtier channel was funny sounding, but I assumed it was a tube, or a minor repair.

Well the problem was not solvable, and after a year I bought another 2210, which I have to this day. When I sold the first one, I had to hide the second one in another room when the gent came by for the first one. He played the amp for maybe 20 seconds, and bought it.

IMHO amps vary from serial # to serial #. A while up in the thread, the Komet 60 came up, which is owned by Derek Minnich. That amp visited me, when it belonged to a previous owner. I remember not liking it much, feeling like it was a trebly, and congested Marshall, sort of an under filtered thing that wouldn't sing for me until most of the house was shaking and small birds were falling from my trees. Several pretty experienced players were there that afternoon, and we were all going WTF? WELL come to find out, that amp was ailing, Hogy thought so too, and reworked and repaired it. So at this point, I would like to hear a Komet 60 again, cause from what I read here, it does a whole lot of the things I like an amp to do, and the only one I heard, was not up to snuff.

I also remember hearing two Ruby amps, the same day, through the same cabinet, though one had 6CA7 and the other ran EL-34. Very, very different tonality, not subtle, and one got sold pretty much immediately. YMMV whatever. Its good to hear an amp more than once, and with a broad selection of pickups.

[Dave LaP]

Originally posted by shallbe
I could not agree more. This is an influential forum. Many threads have thousands of views--if it is a positive thread about a new amp/pedal/speaker--it can have a large impact at no cost to the builder. Many of these guys operate with little or no marketing budgets. This can cause a huge spike in sales for the small shops (Dr.Z, Bogner and many others do not apply).

However, the reverse can be pretty tough. A new product reviewed negatively by an influential member of this forum (not me--I have no influence!) can squash sales, kill orders, etc. It has happened many times, where reviews here dramatically affected business. We've all bought something based upon what we read here--add that up and is is big $$$$$$$$ for many small shops.

I like to hear the good and bad--as long as it is first hand experience and we know the poster (no trolling).

I know of one boutique amp builder who would rather not have any Internet bulletin board publicity at all, good or bad. He cited an incident where a rumor got started and really hurt someone's biz.

[Mook]

Originally posted by lhallam
Some people like AC/DC and Angus's tone, some people like Robben Ford and his tone. I happen to like Segovia and his tone.



Can you play Segovia on your Music Man thru the Two Rock? ;)

Mook

[lhallam]

Originally posted by Mook
Can you play Segovia on your Music Man thru the Two Rock? ;)

Mook

Sure man, except instead of using my Ernie Ball, I just drilled some holes through my $2k Ramirez Concert and put a pickup in there. Sounds awesome. :eek:

Can't believe you remembered my guitar.

[Seditious]

This is going to sound a little strange, but the amp I WAS most dissapointed in is my FAVORITE amp right now. I don't think alot of us keep them around enough, or use them in enough situations to really see how great these amps are.

I bought a Hot Cat 30 from bl5tele to replace my SD30. I took it home and was immediately dissapointed. Both channels sounded harsh to me. When I tried it out in a band situation it was better (it cut through really well), but still sounded harsh. It wasn't till I used it to record with (8 months later) that I became impressed. It sounded so full and heavy without the compression of a Rectifier. The clean channel showed it's real chime. I tweaked some settings for live use and never looked back.
If I would've just taken my first impressions, even after a couple months, I would of thought it was a horrible amp. I'm so glad I kept it around. Now I know how good it is.
This is why I don't think this is a good topic. You have a lot of people who try it out in a store, at their buddies house, or just play it at home for a couple days and decide it's crap. All the while it may be a great live amp, or a great recording amp. They never play it in the context of a band, yet they slam it on this board. At least give some reference as to how it was played (I used it at home for a week at bedroom levels and didn't like it). You may have never reached the amps potential. Maybe you would've loved the sound it got turned up. Even though that might not be what YOU were going to use it for.
Okay that's the end of my rant.

[6AM]

Originally posted by scottypeel
I agree with the Mesa Maverick, and a few others, so I'll throw a new one in the mix: my biggest disappointment was the Bad Cat Hot Cat 15. I owned a Hot Cat 30 head and loved it, but sold it because of gigging needs at that time, knowing I would buy another. Setting up a studio, I opted for the 15, and although I was able to get the clean to a passable tone, the gain never sounded right to me, very constricted and midrangey - it actually got me into pedals (looking for a gain tone) it was so bad!!!
Rock On!

See... different strokes. There's a guy on HCAF and maybe here who had a Hot Cat 30, hated it and sold it, played a Hot Cat 15, loved it and bought it.

[Dave LaP]

Originally posted by Replica
This is going to sound a little strange, but the amp I WAS most dissapointed in is my FAVORITE amp right now. I don't think alot of us keep them around enough, or use them in enough situations to really see how great these amps are.

I bought a Hot Cat 30 from bl5tele to replace my SD30. I took it home and was immediately dissapointed. Both channels sounded harsh to me. When I tried it out in a band situation it was better (it cut through really well), but still sounded harsh. It wasn't till I used it to record with (8 months later) that I became impressed. It sounded so full and heavy without the compression of a Rectifier. The clean channel showed it's real chime. I tweaked some settings for live use and never looked back.
If I would've just taken my first impressions, even after a couple months, I would of thought it was a horrible amp. I'm so glad I kept it around. Now I know how good it is.
This is why I don't think this is a good topic. You have a lot of people who try it out in a store, at their buddies house, or just play it at home for a couple days and decide it's crap. All the while it may be a great live amp, or a great recording amp. They never play it in the context of a band, yet they slam it on this board. At least give some reference as to how it was played (I used it at home for a week at bedroom levels and didn't like it). You may have never reached the amps potential. Maybe you would've loved the sound it got turned up. Even though that might not be what YOU were going to use it for.
Okay that's the end of my rant.

Your post indicates why it IS a good topic. So maybe we can figure out some of the reasons for amp disenchanment syndrome.