Now I want to trash my Mexican strat body

[chadbang]

I sort of like the partscasteer I put together, mainly the relic finish I put on it which involved sanding down the body's finish close to a Fender "thin finish". It was a helluva lot of working sanding that body about 30-40 times with a fine grit car polish to achieve "realistic" wear.

My only problem is that I tried to save a hundred dollars by buying a Mexican body. I'd heard a variety of reports of the quality of Mexican bodies vs American ones, and it seemed like a good trade off - cheaper and almost as good. The only thing that bugged me was that it was a bit heavy.

A year later and just today I ran across these photos taken by someone who visited the Ensenada plant and took some pics to show the guitar making process there. Here's a link to his photos: http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/viewPhoto?uname=meridianmusicguitars&aid=4994460859839283217&iid=4994463468100583442

Now these pics make me want to trash my Mexican body ... and the work I did laboriously relicing it. I had no idea how terribly these Mexican bodies are constructed. Ten pieces of wood and a veneer. Veneer!. Total junk, IMO. Oh man, I wish I never would have found these pictures. Curiosity killed the cat, I suppose....


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/chadbang/IMG_5891.jpg

Quote: "These multi-piece Alder bodies have been prepped with an alder veneer, destined for Standard Strat and Tele production. (Trans finishes). Before you start yelping about the multi piece body, just remember that this guitar is 25% the price of the USA equivilant."

Now that I've seen these, I wouldn't give you 10 cents for a Mexican body. And this comes on the heels of science concluding Strativarius violins sound so good because the rings are wonderfully even on a SINGLE piece of wood, so that they resonate perfectly. Perfect rings? With these you'd be lucky damn matches in size on these slabs of kindling.

Anybody want to buy a relic'd Mexican start body?

[gigant0r]

Anybody want to buy a relic'd Mexican start body?

yeah, I'll give you 10 cents for it :AOK

I've stripped classic 50's mexican strat body and it was nice 3 piece alder.

[biggreen]

Mexican Fenders are built like crap, no new news here. Guitars out of Korea have better build quality on average. Regardless you are going to still see people that swear their $400 Mexi standard sounds and plays better than all the Vintage and American Fenders that they have now since sold because of the mexi-beauty they now cherish... :stir

[Clapton is God]

I think just the 3 tone sunburst has the veneer. From what I understand, the opaque finishes are 2-3 pieces, and the sunburst are... well.. as many as they please, but a "nice" top.

[joefender]

...but you were happy with the guitar for a full year and the only thing that bothered you was some extra weight. Your new knowledge isn't going to make it sound any different than it did last year.

[b2sc]

Are you sure that photo isn't from the butch block table company next door to Fenders' Ensenada plant?

[buddastrat]

Like it says it's for the standard MIM strats and teles. The better quality MIM's that usually cost around $600 and up, are supposed to have a little less, around 5 pieces I've read. Even U.S. strats are known to have 3-5 pieces. CS are two piece.

I wouldn't worry about it IF the guitar sounds good. But most of them don't, and a lot of times you still get what you pay for.

[Amplite]

Of the many Teles I've had I still own a semi hollow USA G&L AST, Fender CS Nocaster, Fender American Deluxe Tele '07. I had to do a lot of outdoor gigs for a couple years so I got a MIM Nashville Tele and installed a set of Don Mare pickups, allparts compensated bridge, and Schaller locking tuners. This was meant to be a compromise, knock around guitar. I have to say the other guitars I own costing 3 to 5 times as much have nothing on this MIM Tele.
When I close my eyes and just play this tele has it all - tone , feel, sustain.
I reacted the same way as most of us when I saw this photo...UGGGGG.
But for me I've learned first hand that the magic of any guitar is truely the SUM of it's parts. You never know till you pick it up and play it!

BTW a Stradivarius doesn't come with Don Mare's
Happy 4th everybody!!:dude

[buddastrat]

I don't know why anyone would be surprised by this pic. Afterall, It's $2-300 strat. You expect this for that price.

Amplite, makes a good point, as there are many variables that go into a guitar. but IME most all of the cheaper MIM are always heavy in weight, very closed/muted sounding guitars because of the wood. When you get up into the better quality MIM guitars like the JV or Cray, or reissue style.. much better chance at a decent sound. Once in awhile a gem shows up.

there was a video in another forum where they talked about how Fender sorts the wood. Custom shop gets the pick of the litter, followed by US production, and so on.. Who knows.

[BobbyRay]

Mexican Fenders are built like crap, no new news here. Guitars out of Korea have better build quality on average. Regardless you are going to still see people that swear their $400 Mexi standard sounds and plays better than all the Vintage and American Fenders that they have now since sold because of the mexi-beauty they now cherish... :stir

So you are saying it's not possible that they really may prefer the sound of their Mexican Strat?

If it sounds good it is good. End of story. I don't care if it's made from outhouse wood. If it plays and sounds good, then I'm good with it. If it's cheap and looks good, even better. If most on the rack sound like crap, but I find a nice one, good for me.

BTW. I don't own a Mexican Strat presently.

[CitizenCain]

I own a Mexican Strat, a Jimmie Vaughan sig model. It sounds and plays just fine. No idea how many pieces of wood in the body, don't care.

[gibsonjunkie]

My MIM strat has about 4 pieces of wood - it doesn't affect the look all that much and out of about a dozen that we tried when I was out strat shopping, this was the one that had the Mojo!

Popped in a set of CS '69 PU's and it's golden!

http://home.comcast.net/%7Enicholas.caruso/images/T_2008_02240015.JPG

[daddyo]

Just play the guitar and stop worrying about how it's built. You seemed to be happy before you saw the pics.

[big mike]

Still probably the best strat I owned was a 50's MIM RI that I should've kept.

If it sounds good, it is good.

[mvd18969]

This is almost like pushing the issue and finding out the real "number" from your wife/girlfriend and then you don't like what you hear!!
I don't think there should be any surprises here; it's a guitar that you can buy brand new for $399. Actually, the real surprise is how good I think they actually are. My friend owns a MIM tele and strat and I think they are both really nice guitars for the money. Upgrade the electronics and invest in a decent setup and you really have a nice guitar. My guitar repair guy really likes these. They are a cheap enough that even w/ upgrades, you have a great instrument for a reasonable price. I'm thinking of grabbing one myself..

[biggreen]

So you are saying it's not possible that they really may prefer the sound of their Mexican Strat?

If it sounds good it is good. End of story. I don't care if it's made from outhouse wood. If it plays and sounds good, then I'm good with it. If it's cheap and looks good, even better. If most on the rack sound like crap, but I find a nice one, good for me.

BTW. I don't own a Mexican Strat presently.

For sure. If it sounds good then it is. However, statements that I have read on here claiming things like "it sounds better than every XYZ Vintage/US strat I have owned before and since sold", makes me think that often we hear what we want to.

BTW. I do own a mexi tele (72 thinline RI), and an 08 American Standard strat and I have played enough examples from both factories to stick to my previous claim: Mexican Fenders have the lowest build quality standards in the industry (not including <$200 walmart brands).
Having said that I play my mexi tele way more than my strat, but the sole reason is that I love thinlines, it certainly doesn;t touch it in terms of quality. It isn't even the same league and I tried out 3 of them before picking it.

[Ayrton]

Much to do about nothing....

Of course the cheap strats have multi piece bodies. However, if your particular guitar sounds good, then it is good.

My '89 strat has a multi piece alder body with ash veneers, and it is the best sounding of all my strats.

[biggreen]

Like it says it's for the standard MIM strats and teles. The better quality MIM's that usually cost around $600 and up, are supposed to have a little less, around 5 pieces I've read. Even U.S. strats are known to have 3-5 pieces. CS are two piece.

I wouldn't worry about it IF the guitar sounds good. But most of them don't, and a lot of times you still get what you pay for.


My American standard is 1 solid piece, do I win a prize? :dude

And you are right my $700 mexi TL tele in natural finished ash has 5 pieces on the top and the cap on the bottom is 2 pieces, I am just glad there is no tone sucking veneer on there.

[John Hurtt]

My American standard is 1 solid piece, do I win a prize? :dude

And you are right my $700 mexi TL tele in natural finished ash has 5 pieces on the top and the cap on the bottom is 2 pieces, I am just glad there is no tone sucking veneer on there.


One piece? Awesome, love to see it. :dude

[teletran1175]

IMHO...
It does not make one bit of difference in sound and MIM build quality is alot better than most people would like to admit.

[John Hurtt]

IMHO...
It does not make one bit of difference in sound and MIM build quality is alot better than most people would like to admit.

I think that the different woods, glue, etc. would make a difference to the sound. Not necessarily bad, but different. I always thought the quality was pretty good for the MIM stuff as well. I think that the real change is the huge increase in quality of stuff coming from Korea.

[biggreen]

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/biggreen420/DSC0039350.jpg



http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/biggreen420/DSC00358.jpg


I lucked out with this one, it is impecable. It took the plastics off of it just to see if I could find a seam somewhere down the center but it is solid throughout. :AOK Does it make it sound better? Well that may be hard to prove, but if glue made guitars sound better then Fender would have released the special edition "lepages gluecaster" long ago. :stir


On an aside: GW reviewed the new AS line of strats and Teles in last months issue. Quoted from the review "These magnificent instruments help solidify my contention that Fender is presently building some of the finest intruments in the companies history." :dude

[biggreen]

IMHO...
It does not make one bit of difference in sound and MIM build quality is alot better than most people would like to admit.


Really?... Like this?


Nice straight bridge:
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/biggreen420/DSC00502.jpg


those sweet perfectly round markers:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/biggreen420/DSC00503.jpg

And sweet custom thumb divot in the neck which has a nice little bump in the middle:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/biggreen420/DSC00504.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/biggreen420/DSC00505.jpg


Not to mention, when I got it the d string tuner was so tight that the only way I could even restring it has to use pliers, a rag and some WD40 for about 15 minutes on it. And that is a $700 model, not the $400 standard, and as I mentioned I went from 2 diferent stores and tried out 4 in total before settling on this one. 1 of them looked like it had the frets jammed in with a nail gun and another had all dead frets past the 12th. Don't get me wrong, I love this guitar, but it certainly has nothing to do with the build quality.

Oh ya, and I forgot to mention that it hums like a bastard when you don't ground it with your hands, same as my buddies MIM 72 tele. These guitars have humbuckers FCS!!

[chadbang]

I've stripped classic 50's mexican strat body and it was nice 3 piece alder.

I think one of these might be my next move. Just can't afford a good USA body. Plus, I have a vintage RI bridge, anyway. Thanks for reminding me about these bodies.

[edward]

Much to do about nothing....

Of course the cheap strats have multi piece bodies. However, if your particular guitar sounds good, then it is good.

My '89 strat has a multi piece alder body with ash veneers, and it is the best sounding of all my strats.

Agreed!

Warning: long reply, climbing on soap box :jo

There is theory, then there is what really happens. C'mon, Multipiece-vs single. Veener cap or none. This wood vs that. Long vs sort tenons for you LP fans. Set neck vs bolt in. yada yada... The debate over which is "better" is fruitless because no ONE characteristics defines a guitar's tone. Then there's playability which is another enormous factor of whether any axe becomes a keeper. This is particularly funny to me since mannnny years ago Pine was derided as cheap, too soft, and just a poor tone wood relegated to cheesy copies mfg from asia. And now??? Hahaha :D

Sorry, but if this observation of MIM wood suddenly makes one dislike a guitar that one originally valued, then that is just shallow and shortsighted, IMHO. And give me a break here: does anyone really think Fender is ripping anyone off by using such obviously crappy wood that's not even fit for bonfire and marketing it as Custom Shop quality that's been heavily discounted? It IS what it IS.

Anyone who has had experience over the years with different guitars knows first hand that price is not the sole determinant of tone or playability; it is one factor, but by no means defines the ultimate "worth" of the instrument. That comes from experience, not by reading about it, or following the conventional wisdom that such and such sucks and you "have to get" this.

BTW, in reference to my recent threads on my own MIM project cheapie-strat, I knew full well going in what may lie underneath the finish. But before I went at stripping and building her up, I FIRST had to know that she played well and sang my tune ...otherwise, why bother, eh? Oh, and for the record, mine does have the veneer top/back with approx 4 pieces of core wood: I was prepared to hate it; ended up loving it.

Like a guitar or hate it ...whatever. But any instrument either touches you personally or not. No AAA Grade, one-piece slab of mojo wood is going to define a great guitar by default. ....Ahem, IMHO of course
:stir

Edward

[Troubleman]

Anybody know if there's a difference between the bodies of MIM Strat Standard and their 50s or 60s Strats? There's a vast difference between the sound/playability of the MIM Standards vs the 50s/60s....

jb

[biggreen]

Anybody know if there's a difference between the bodies of MIM Strat Standard and their 50s or 60s Strats? There's a vast difference between the sound/playability of the MIM Standards vs the 50s/60s....

jb

Ya, they are different. The 50's classic players strat I had briefly was a 3 piece body, therefore it had no veneer. As far as 'playability' of the body is concerned, I'm not sure how to rate that, lol.

[teletran1175]

Really?... Like this?

Build quality is a comparitive thing. A third of the new American Strats I played this year had faulty skunk stripes where the walnut was pulling out of the maple. Half of them had unlevel fret jobs and all them had some kind of issue. There are always exceptions, but USA and MIM quality control seems pretty similar to me (other than materials). The best quailty guitars from Fender I've seen are the Japanese reissues.
My point is that if I have to spend money to correct these issues, I feel better doing it on a $400 Fender rather that a $1200 one.
Please note that these are my opinions and observations.
Flame away if you must...

[biggreen]

Build quality is a comparitive thing. A third of the new American Strats I played this year had faulty skunk stripes where the walnut was pulling out of the maple. Half of them had unlevel fret jobs and all them had some kind of issue. There are always exceptions, but USA and MIM quality control seems pretty similar to me (other than materials). The best quailty guitars from Fender I've seen are the Japanese reissues.
My point is that if I have to spend money to correct these issues, I feel better doing it on a $400 Fender rather that a $1200 one.
Please note that these are my opinions and observations.
Flame away if you must...

how are you going to correct a veneer, crooked bridges and mishapen necks other than repalcing the parts with US or japanesse built?

I have not seen any of these skunk stripe issues you speak of on the ($999, not $1200) American Standards. Regardless, that is 1 issue, this tele has 4 seperate issues, ranging from neck construction to build up of the hardware all the way to QC out the door where the guy that strung it up, even with a drill, would have noticed that one of the tuners was seized but sent it out anyway, it is obvious that there is atleast 4 guys in that factory that don't know what they are doing and/or don't give a crap. These are beyond ridiculous issues and I haven't seen any guitar that had this bad of QC, even $250 Ibanez guitars are built better.

I agree that the Japanese RI where the best QC guitars that Fender put out in the last 20 years. it is really too bad that they discontinued sales in NA and reduced their costs and resulting quality by replacing them all with this Mexican built garbage.

I haven't seen any US counterpart Fender with such obvious issues as these, even the dogs I have played have atleast been put together properly. Seriously, I dare anyone with a recent US Fender to post some pics of deficiencies that rival these in either numbers or (non)quality. :stir

[dangerine49]

So let me get this straight, you have a partsocaster for a year that you're happy with but because you saw a photo about how your body is made you've changed your mind? How has your guitar sounded until this infernal picture was brought to your attention?

And why would you compare your MIM body to the construction techniques of a Stradivarius acoustic violin? You don't get one piece bodies from Fender unless you order from their custom shop. Whether a one piece electric body sounds better than a multiple piece body is still up for debate.

I've got a 2001 MIM Standard Strat with a multiple piece body (not sure how many, but I don't care) and a veneer. I swapped the stock pickups with a set of Kinmans and it sounds as good as my MIA Deluxe Strat. My opinion hasn't changed since I saw those photos.

[dhdfoster]

And why would you compare your MIM body to the construction techniques of a Stradivarius acoustic violin? You don't get one piece bodies from Fender unless you order from their custom shop. Whether a one piece electric body sounds better than a multiple piece body is still up for debate.


Agreed. A violin is not an electric guitar. By the time the string vibrations go through the pickups, the cord, any pedals, into the amp, through the speakers, and out into the room, do you think a multi-piece body makes much of a difference? It's a solid body guitar, and the vibrating wood isn't responsible for projecting the sound the way a violin does.

If Fender needs to use smaller pieces of wood to build a decent quality Strat that doesn't cost much, I don't see what the big deal is. I've played a few MIM Strats at GC and I thought they were great for such a cheap price.

[shally]

i guess you shouldnt eat sausages or hot dogs either ??

no offense, but i come down completely on the side of posters here who say, if it sounds good, it IS good.

you put together or bought a low price guitar and loved the sound.. what's to complain ? rejoice in your wisdom.. the old blues guys in the delta
constructed guitars out of refuse or bought them from sears, if they were lucky. we worship their tone (at least i do)..

and when Leo came up with his original concept, you think he bought his parts and paints and wood thinking of the best possible quality ? it was to be mass produced for the masses.. something has got to give

you have a great guitar, at a great price point. nothing to complain about regardless of what the composition of the wood was....

[teletran1175]

how are you going to correct a veneer, crooked bridges and mishapen necks other than repalcing the parts with US or japanesse built?

I haven't seen your Tele issues on any of the MIM standards I've owned or played and I have owned nearly 20 of them. I've seen my share of issues, but few qualify as gross neglect.
I will not argue about our respective viewpoints on the quality of the Fender's we've seen. I'm certain you've seen some crappy MIM's, but I'm willing to bet I've seen as many crappy USA's.
BTW The guitars I have been evaluating lately is the American Deluxe ($1249, not $999), because I've been looking to buy one. I've tried about a dozen recently and I still haven't found a reasonably flawless one.


I dare anyone with a recent US Fender to post some pics of deficiencies that rival these in either numbers or (non)quality.


Good luck with that. The more someone actually spends on a guitar, the less likely they will be to notice its flaws. :AOK

In all seriousness, I hear what you're trying to say and I can dig it. I'm just saying that the bulk of MIM Fenders have above average quality control and few possess serious and uncorrectable build errors.

[teletran1175]

Agreed. A violin is not an electric guitar. By the time the string vibrations go through the pickups, the cord, any pedals, into the amp, through the speakers, and out into the room, do you think a multi-piece body makes much of a difference? It's a solid body guitar, and the vibrating wood isn't responsible for projecting the sound the way a violin does.

If Fender needs to use smaller pieces of wood to build a decent quality Strat that doesn't cost much, I don't see what the big deal is. I've played a few MIM Strats at GC and I thought they were great for such a cheap price.

I don't think most violins, Stradivarius or not, are dipped in some sort of UV plastic sealer before finishing. :NUTS
Once that polyester undercoat is applied to a Fender, it seems less important to me how many pieces of wood is used.

[rushcentrale]

Agreed!

Warning: long reply, climbing on soap box :jo

There is theory, then there is what really happens. C'mon, Multipiece-vs single. Veener cap or none. This wood vs that. Long vs sort tenons for you LP fans. Set neck vs bolt in. yada yada... The debate over which is "better" is fruitless because no ONE characteristics defines a guitar's tone. Then there's playability which is another enormous factor of whether any axe becomes a keeper. This is particularly funny to me since mannnny years ago Pine was derided as cheap, too soft, and just a poor tone wood relegated to cheesy copies mfg from asia. And now??? Hahaha :D

Sorry, but if this observation of MIM wood suddenly makes one dislike a guitar that one originally valued, then that is just shallow and shortsighted, IMHO. And give me a break here: does anyone really think Fender is ripping anyone off by using such obviously crappy wood that's not even fit for bonfire and marketing it as Custom Shop quality that's been heavily discounted? It IS what it IS.

Anyone who has had experience over the years with different guitars knows first hand that price is not the sole determinant of tone or playability; it is one factor, but by no means defines the ultimate "worth" of the instrument. That comes from experience, not by reading about it, or following the conventional wisdom that such and such sucks and you "have to get" this.

BTW, in reference to my recent threads on my own MIM project cheapie-strat, I knew full well going in what may lie underneath the finish. But before I went at stripping and building her up, I FIRST had to know that she played well and sang my tune ...otherwise, why bother, eh? Oh, and for the record, mine does have the veneer top/back with approx 4 pieces of core wood: I was prepared to hate it; ended up loving it.

Like a guitar or hate it ...whatever. But any instrument either touches you personally or not. No AAA Grade, one-piece slab of mojo wood is going to define a great guitar by default. ....Ahem, IMHO of course
:stir

Edward

very well put :dude

[chadbang]

So let me get this straight, you have a partsocaster for a year that you're happy with but because you saw a photo about how your body is made you've changed your mind? How has your guitar sounded until this infernal picture was brought to your attention?


No, I should clarify that I haven't been entirely happy with it. I've been bothered by its heavy weight (and now I understand why it might be heavy. I've heard gluing together more piece of wood really adds to the weight) and I was petrified by those photos that I might have a veneer on my body. As someone who has refinished a lot of furniture, I despise veneers. Luckily those veneers seem to be reserved for clear finished bodies, which mine is not. I've also been a little skeptical about its resonance. I didnt' realize I might have so many pieces of wood making up my body. On one of the other pics on that guys folder, I'm certain I count 10 pieces making up some bodies. That seems really pushing it. I certainly agree there are many factors going towards the creation of a guitars tone (I'm of the: 'its more in the neck' school) so I agree a guitar is the sum of it's parts. That's why I'm bummed out to learn one very large part of my guitar is likely a minus, not a plus in that equation.

[buddastrat]

But let's be honest, given the choice, everyone here would rather have a 1, 2-3 piece body over that. Even if it sounded the same.

Of course you judge each guitar on it's own and yada yada yada, but there's gotta be a reason none of those cheap Fenders ring out and have a woody tone acoustically. I've played LOTs of them. Almost always dull and thuddy or muted, they sort've have a signature sound. A lot of that could be the lack of a good trem block, but it also could be the fact that half the body is filled with glue! Once in awhile one will sound and ring nice, but nowhere near as nice as a good custom shop or higher end or even a higher end MIM strat.

Plus, remember the story going around about Jeff Beck's U.S. sig strat supposedly coming apart at the glue joint. So if I'm searching for a good backup or my #1, I don't want a body by Elmers, unless it sounded tits which I've never, ever seen one that did.

[Troubleman]

Well... consider this. Henry Garza of Los Lonely Boys gets a monstrous tone - sweet cleans and singing/searing leads, and he only uses Mexican Strat bodies. According to his interview, he has his tech swap out the neck for a US 62 Vintage Reissue neck with jumbo frets, and he swaps out the stock pickups for Texas Specials. That's it.

jb

[zenfreud]

...but you were happy with the guitar for a full year and the only thing that bothered you was some extra weight. Your new knowledge isn't going to make it sound any different than it did last year.


I agree, we humans can be so fickle. And I'll admit that seeing that picture takes some of the romance out of it for me too. But I swear my MIM Strat, heavy as it is, is at least as resonant, if not more so, than my CS Strat.

As an example of quality guitars that don't necessarily use one piece bodies, my '53 Tele is a three piece body!

[zenfreud]

Of course you judge each guitar on it's own and yada yada yada, but there's gotta be a reason none of those cheap Fenders ring out and have a woody tone acoustically. I've played LOTs of them. Almost always dull and thuddy or muted, they sort've have a signature sound.

Plus, remember the story going around about Jeff Beck's U.S. sig strat supposedly coming apart at the glue joint.

I don't agree, see my previous post.

And I'm not a woodworker, but can't glue joints be stronger than the wood itself?

[padavis]

Well... consider this. Henry Garza of Los Lonely Boys gets a monstrous tone - sweet cleans and singing/searing leads, and he only uses Mexican Strat bodies. According to his interview, he has his tech swap out the neck for a US 62 Vintage Reissue neck with jumbo frets, and he swaps out the stock pickups for Texas Specials. That's it.

jb

BOOM end point right there!
I love my MIM strat and I have become more and more proud of it over the years as it has aged very nicely. I had read Henry Garza used mexican guitars before and that sure helped me settle with the fact the only strat that feels good to me consistently is my Mexican one! Of course thats my opinion and how things feel to me... I think there is a point when people just settle with stuff and you gotta figure out how to do that. If that picture is just too unsettling then why compromise? Thinkthats the last straw? Then get rid of that beast and get you an American one. You gotta be happy in your mind and some people cant get past somethings and thats neither good or bad... shoot I have it in my head humbuckers only sound good in capped heavy Les Pauls. I have not been satisfied with any humbucker equipped guitar unless it is in an LP so... you know weird things to get past but you gotta figure out that little thing that does it for you.

[MBreinin]

Bah, whatever. I have a 3 tone burst and I picked it from around 20+ Strats that I played that day. I wasn't even planning on buying a guitar, I got caught at GC in the rain so I stayed for a couple of hours and played. I almost left without it, but I then realized that would be a mistake because it is a kick ass sounding Strat and it was $400. It is such a great sounding guitar that I am not even going to change the electronics. Compared to how the Mexican Strats sounded and played when they first came out in the early '90s, this is a Custom Shop guitar.

Mike

[buddastrat]

Well... consider this. Henry Garza of Los Lonely Boys gets a monstrous tone - sweet cleans and singing/searing leads, and he only uses Mexican Strat bodies. According to his interview, he has his tech swap out the neck for a US 62 Vintage Reissue neck with jumbo frets, and he swaps out the stock pickups for Texas Specials. That's it.

jb


I think I recall him using reissue MIM strats (not standards like we're talking about) and swapping the necks. Some of the reissues are real nice and usually 3-4 piece.

But sorry, Los Lonely Boys is not monstrous strat tone. I've said many times, I like their music and his playing, but it just sounds like an ordinary strat tone to me. I wouldn't never call that "monstrous" strat tone, there's not really any signature or a lot of depth to it.

And that's quite a few mods to those strats.

[buddastrat]

I don't agree, see my previous post.

And I'm not a woodworker, but can't glue joints be stronger than the wood itself?


Well, I played so many of those cheaper MIM and I just don't like a lot of them, especially the heavy ones. Some are decent but then I pickup a CS and it's night and day. Really ringing clear and woody sounding. We all like different things in the sound.

Yeah I always thought glue could be stronger too. I just remember that story.

[teleamp]

Has anyone counted the pieces of wood in a newer USA Gibson LP Studio?



Quite a few!!!

[edward]

Funny how the weight of any given strat is NOT correlated to the number of pieces ...just no connection. In my experience over the years, I've personally found the weight of each strat really is up to *that* individual guitar's wood. My MIA strat, for example is not a lightweight ...9+ in my rough estimation. Yet my MIM strat, with oh, maybe 6+ pieces is lighter. With others' strats, too; just all over the map.

I've experienced the same with Teles ...one-piece, 2-3 piece bodies, there just is no positive correlation between the number of indiv pieces and the overall weight.

Keep in mind my "findings" are by no means scientific; just experiential and based on simply picking it up and playing. But even in that informal setting, I can't help but stand by what I have found to be "true."

Edward

[SgtThump]

Blah, blah, blah... I could easily gig and please people with a regular run-of-the-mill Fender Standard Strat and a cheapo SS Fender amp. I'm quite certain that the ladies out there dancing to the standard bar cover tunes wouldn't notice and after 6-8 beers, I wouldn't either.

But feel free to focus on every little negative thing in life, instead of having fun.

[Troubleman]

I think I recall him using reissue MIM strats (not standards like we're talking about) and swapping the necks. Some of the reissues are real nice and usually 3-4 piece.

But sorry, Los Lonely Boys is not monstrous strat tone. I've said many times, I like their music and his playing, but it just sounds like an ordinary strat tone to me. I wouldn't never call that "monstrous" strat tone, there's not really any signature or a lot of depth to it.

And that's quite a few mods to those strats.

They are reissues, I don't know the count of wood parts reissue vs standard, but all MIM Strats (except maybe special issue) are multi-part bodies, usually at least 4.
Of Henry's tone - have you every seen Los Lonely Boys play live? Not the overly compressed studio tone - LIVE. Have you ever seen Henry do "Onda" live? I saw him the past two summers. I've been playing Strats for over twenty years, the past few - a 1961 Strat through a Budda or Marshall Jubilee. I've developed an ear for ripping Strat tone. Believe me, it may not be every night he's out there, but playing live - Henry Garza cranks out killer Strat tones.

All that said, as we all know - tone is subjective.

jb

[jcj]

Blah, blah, blah... I could easily gig and please people with a regular run-of-the-mill Fender Standard Strat and a cheapo SS Fender amp. I'm quite certain that the ladies out there dancing to the standard bar cover tunes wouldn't notice and after 6-8 beers, I wouldn't either.

But feel free to focus on every little negative thing in life, instead of having fun.

Amen!

[pennylink]

As an occasional woodworker I can add this to the debate: Weigh a piece of solid timber, rip into 5-6 pieces, glue it, clamp it and let it dry. Remove the clamp and weigh it again... it will weigh exactly the same as before! (except for a small amount of wood that will have been lost from the blade cut and a very small amount of glue that was added).

Which one sounds better is up to your ears to decide, but weight should not be an issue.

[Scott Auld]

This picture's for Mike:

http://lh6.ggpht.com/meridianmusicguitars/RU_meIc2ABI/AAAAAAAAASM/hg4aWoGtyd0/IMG_5909.JPG&imgmax=640

[buddastrat]

Blah, blah, blah... I could easily gig and please people with a regular run-of-the-mill Fender Standard Strat and a cheapo SS Fender amp. I'm quite certain that the ladies out there dancing to the standard bar cover tunes wouldn't notice and after 6-8 beers, I wouldn't either.

But feel free to focus on every little negative thing in life, instead of having fun.


Playing to a bunch of drunks, you could play a Cort strat copy and no one would care, as long as you play some Skynrd or Play that Funky Music or...

Could say the same for an amp. It doesn't matter to most of the crowd, but I want a guitar, amp or whatever to inspire me so I don't want to put it down. That inspiration is where the real fun is.

[buddastrat]

They are reissues, I don't know the count of wood parts reissue vs standard, but all MIM Strats (except maybe special issue) are multi-part bodies, usually at least 4.
Of Henry's tone - have you every seen Los Lonely Boys play live? Not the overly compressed studio tone - LIVE. Have you ever seen Henry do "Onda" live? I saw him the past two summers. I've been playing Strats for over twenty years, the past few - a 1961 Strat through a Budda or Marshall Jubilee. I've developed an ear for ripping Strat tone. Believe me, it may not be every night he's out there, but playing live - Henry Garza cranks out killer Strat tones.

All that said, as we all know - tone is subjective.

jb


As I said, He uses reissues, and they have a lot less pieces than the standard. but he really doesn't use Mexi strats if he stickin' a US neck on it and then CS pickups, that's over half the guitar he's changing.

I think his live sound is a lot better from what I've seen. I just remember their first CD sounding like a thin and plinky type strat. I couldn't believe that he used heavy strings. It just didn't have that rich depth or cool jangle like an old strat tone like you'd hear from SRV or Chris Duarte or someone. The Heaven tone is more plinky with hotter pickups type tone. To my ears. But the guitar's tone didn't stop me from listening to it. He's still a good player with good music. That's the main thing.

OTOH, I just always thought it's cool that he can go in any shop and pick up any strat through any amp, and get that basic type strat tone.

[SgtThump]

Playing to a bunch of drunks, you could play a Cort strat copy and no one would care, as long as you play some Skynrd or Play that Funky Music or...

Could say the same for an amp. It doesn't matter to most of the crowd, but I want a guitar, amp or whatever to inspire me so I don't want to put it down. That inspiration is where the real fun is.

True. But, if someone can't be inspired because a guitar body is made from 8 pieces of wood instead of 2-3, I'd say they need a higher dose on their meds. :)

[big mike]

I think Garza's a very good player, with very good tone.

[MightyGuru]

Played my 1st year Jimmy Vaughan for 5 years as #1. No tellin' how many pieces it's made of. My '79 is made of multiple pieces.

[buddastrat]

True. But, if someone can't be inspired because a guitar body is made from 8 pieces of wood instead of 2-3, I'd say they need a higher dose on their meds. :)


I don't agree with that. Is a Gorilla amp gonna be as fun as playing through a Soldano or old Marshall? I think there are some great MIM strats btw, I played an amazing Cray strat a few years back. I've tried to find another good one and been through six of them and they all stunk.

[biggreen]

I don't agree with that. Is a Gorilla amp gonna be as fun as playing through a Soldano or old Marshall? I think there are some great MIM strats btw, I played an amazing Cray strat a few years back. I've tried to find another good one and been through six of them and they all stunk.

If all the stars align just right and it is a full moon then you can get a decent MIM Fender, too bad the odds aren't like the MIA or MIJ guitars. IMO they should have never started production anything better the Squires in Mexico, that was a good place for them.

I think the reason they switched production of all non CS RI's from japan to mexico besides the obvious 'make way more money with fee trade' reason, is that it was hard for the consumer to tell why they should pay more for the MIA model when the MIJ's were so tight. Now when you go into a music store, the salesman doesn't have to work as hard to convince you to spend all the extra money on the MIA model when the quality diference is so dramatic.

[buddastrat]

I hear ya Big Green. The Japan stuff I've played has been stellar from just about any company even.

[dangerine49]

No, I should clarify that I haven't been entirely happy with it. I've been bothered by its heavy weight (and now I understand why it might be heavy. I've heard gluing together more piece of wood really adds to the weight) and I was petrified by those photos that I might have a veneer on my body. As someone who has refinished a lot of furniture, I despise veneers. Luckily those veneers seem to be reserved for clear finished bodies, which mine is not. I've also been a little skeptical about its resonance. I didnt' realize I might have so many pieces of wood making up my body. On one of the other pics on that guys folder, I'm certain I count 10 pieces making up some bodies. That seems really pushing it. I certainly agree there are many factors going towards the creation of a guitars tone (I'm of the: 'its more in the neck' school) so I agree a guitar is the sum of it's parts. That's why I'm bummed out to learn one very large part of my guitar is likely a minus, not a plus in that equation.

Weight has nothing to do with how many pieces are used. It's a function of the wood used. Some batches weigh more than others. MIM Standards use veneers on all colors. That way you won't see the seams through the solid finish.

Here's some of the specs that used to be readily available describing the major differences between MIM (Standard only) and MIA Fenders:

"Here is a list of differences I found on the Fender Europe site:

Standard Series (Mexico)
Body: 5 to 7-piece alder with maple or birch veneer. Sunburst models have maple veneer

American Series (U.S)
Body: Current specs: 3-piece alder for solid colours and 3-tone sunburst. White blonde and natural are 2 or 3-piece ash (Non-Veneered)"

[padavis]

Ive been reading more and more of this and playing on my standard mexican a little more and yea if I am honest with myself its not got anything near the tone of anything else I have... still I have a good one in my opinion but it dies like a banjo compared to my dad's old Strat Plus... not that anyone would really care but I just felt I needed to come clean haha

[biggreen]

I hear ya Big Green. The Japan stuff I've played has been stellar from just about any company even.


I can respect that for many people the MIM Fenders are good enough, especially if you find one that works for you, but the switch from MIJ to MIM in NA was a huge downgrade for the Fender line up, especially in regards to the RIs.

Buzzing HB PU's, mishapen necks, bad fret jobs, lousy wood work, crooked hardware? When was the last time you heard anyone describe an MIJ fender with any of those terms?

Honestly, I would be happier if they moved all of the MIM production to Korea and had them built by Cort or at the factory where they make the PRS SEs. I am sure the Koreans could make a better fender than the MIM factory. These MIM Fenders can't touch recent MIK Ibanez and reverand guitars when it comes to consitancy and QC.

[biggreen]

Ive been reading more and more of this and playing on my standard mexican a little more and yea if I am honest with myself its not got anything near the tone of anything else I have... still I have a good one in my opinion but it dies like a banjo compared to my dad's old Strat Plus... not that anyone would really care but I just felt I needed to come clean haha


Thanks for sharing. :AOK Everyone should be able to admit that a guitar they own isn't what it should be. It doesn't hurt my pride to admit that ya, my tele is a bloody freak show, horribly crafted turdcaster, hey it's not my fault, I shopped around, paid good money, bought big name brand. I just wasn't able to get a decent MIJ thinline reissue locally, and at the end of the day I do enjoy the guitar, but that doesn't change the fact it is a dog that should have never been alowed across the border. What is the point in pretending any diferent?

[MBreinin]

I can respect that for many people the MIM Fenders are good enough, especially if you find one that works for you, but the switch from MIJ to MIM in NA was a huge downgrade for the Fender line up, especially in regards to the RIs.

Buzzing HB PU's, mishapen necks, bad fret jobs, lousy wood work, crooked hardware? When was the last time you heard anyone describe an MIJ fender with any of those terms?

Honestly, I would be happier if they moved all of the MIM production to Korea and had them built by Cort or at the factory where they make the PRS SEs. I am sure the Koreans could make a better fender than the MIM factory. These MIM Fenders can't touch recent MIK Ibanez and reverand guitars when it comes to consitancy and QC.

Mine has none of these problems. It is pretty damn close to flawless. I also compared it side by side with my K-Line for about an hour and while the K-Line had a more open and woody tone, only a good ear could have picked out the subtle differences. Someone who doesn't play probably would not hear the difference. K-Line was a superior guitar, no doubt in that, with nicer appearance, better components and a better tone...but the Mexi held its own and has a tone that is unique in and of itself. I have been playing Strats for 20 years, and I think I am qualified to determine when a guitar plays and sounds good. This guitar meets both of those criteria.

Mike

[biggreen]

Mine has none of these problems. It is pretty damn close to flawless. I also compared it side by side with my K-Line for about an hour and while the K-Line had a more open and woody tone, only a good ear could have picked out the subtle differences. Someone who doesn't play probably would not hear the difference. K-Line was a superior guitar, no doubt in that, with nicer appearance, better components and a better tone...but the Mexi held its own and has a tone that is unique in and of itself. I have been playing Strats for 20 years, and I think I am qualified to determine when a guitar plays and sounds good. This guitar meets both of those criteria.

Mike

That is great and you are one of the lucky players that got a decent one.

Quality control though, by definition doesn't only include lucking out and making good components and guitars hear and there, but also weeding out the crap as well. I mean that is what a QC guys job is. My tele has 5 issues as depicted in my pics, ranging from unsightly to downright unacceptable in nearly every major process involved in making a guitar, so where where the QC control guys on the days it made it through the factory, do they even exist there?

And again I am not basing an opinion soley on this one either or the other 3 I auditioned before buying it. I have tried many recent MIM Fender guitars in the last 6 months, sure I have played some pretty decent ones, I actually bought a classic players 50's strat, it played very well, didn't sound terrific, but had a sweet neck. I also played a JS reissue tele, that while ugly as all hell played very well also, though build QC is pretty much a non issue on that guitar, lol. On the flipside of the coin, nealry all of the standard strats and teles i played had crap frets and hollow acoustic tone. Infact the MII Deluxe Squires that I have played seemed to all have better frets in general, and the guys at my local shop tend to agree.

The issue isn't that the Mexican plant isn't capable of making some decent guitars, the issues is that they are just as equally capable of making some of the biggest pigs in the industry, and that is unacceptable IMO (though, obviously I have accepted it by buying one :o).

[Scott Auld]

My friend and I were trying to tell if my 1997 American Deluxe Strat was multiple pieces or not. It seems like we can see the same grain all around the entire piece. Were there any one-piece strats made in Corona in the 90s?

[Stretch Papa]

Are you suggesting that Fender would lower manufacturing standards to sell guitars to a wider variety of consumers?????........Wait....... (HA):jo http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/biggreen420/DSC0039350.jpg



http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c72/biggreen420/DSC00358.jpg


I lucked out with this one, it is impecable. It took the plastics off of it just to see if I could find a seam somewhere down the center but it is solid throughout. :AOK Does it make it sound better? Well that may be hard to prove, but if glue made guitars sound better then Fender would have released the special edition "lepages gluecaster" long ago. :stir


On an aside: GW reviewed the new AS line of strats and Teles in last months issue. Quoted from the review "These magnificent instruments help solidify my contention that Fender is presently building some of the finest intruments in the companies history." :dude

[Stretch Papa]

I don't know but I bet the friend you were looking at the guitar with is freakin' Awesome!!!!!!My friend and I were trying to tell if my 1997 American Deluxe Strat was multiple pieces or not. It seems like we can see the same grain all around the entire piece. Were there any one-piece strats made in Corona in the 90s?

[chaz_vibrato]

Hmmmm. Anyone know what the story is with the M.I.M. Classic 60's series? I would hope they didn't make it out of a buncha pieces of wood. I got one about a two weeks ago, starts with a 9 serial number (1999?) and it looks like the body is made from two pieces. Was that standard for these or is it unusual?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/chas2004/th000_0005-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/chas2004/th000_0002-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v622/chas2004/th000_0008-1.jpg

I don't think I'd care if it was ten pieces of wood, I dunno maybe be a bit disappointed. :puh

[dleobold]

My tele has 5 issues as depicted in my pics, ranging from unsightly to downright unacceptable in nearly every major process involved in making a guitar, so where where the QC control guys on the days it made it through the factory, do they even exist there?




Why was it purchased if it has so many flaws?

I have a 02 MIM (replaced the pups ) that is darn near flawless. it has one of the nicest , most amber rich maple necks Ive ever owned, and it doesnt rattle anywhere. Its got this deep, almost, rich, creamy tone to it. The neck sits in the pocket tight.

And then I bought a 08 MIA (my fault for buying it unseend from MF) , and the SECOND i opened the case I had a sinking feeling. Something was not right about the finish. I took it too legends music here in Tampa, and showed it to the owner. I thought I was going to have to explain what was wrong, but he looked at it for 2 seconds and said " your undercoat was messed up." It had all this weird, wavy lines running through the paintjob. I returned it of course.

Anyway, I think I have a point. Looking at those pictures of the ensenada plant, I dont see anything wrong. It looks like a lot of handmade work. More than I would have guessed.

If Fender wanted Ensenada to make 1 piece Alder, hand crafted custom shop pieces, they would have trained the people there to make them, and they would be as good as the American ones. The QC between the MIM and MIA doesnt seem that much diffrent. MIMs are cheaper, and they are supposed to be. If they sound good theyre good, like people keep saying.

But seriously, Stop buying inexpensive guitars and then complaining when they arent built like a Suhr.

[MBreinin]

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2002-1/8541/MexiStrat1.JPG

Mike

[bluesjuke]

MBreinin-
"Someone who doesn't play probably would not hear the difference."


No argument with you or on either side of this thread but I wonder why I see quotes like this often.

We are musicians and stuff like this matters to us.
The non musicians aren't buying and playing the gear- we are.
It has to satisfy us not someone else.

[MBreinin]

MBreinin-
"Someone who doesn't play probably would not hear the difference."


No argument with you or on either side of this thread but I wonder why I see quotes like this often.

We are musicians and stuff like this matters to us.
The non musicians aren't buying and playing the gear- we are.
It has to satisfy us not someone else.

I am just saying that our ears are more finely tuned to differences in guitar tones. This guitar does satisfy me, I would not have bought it on a whim if it didn't. I have another strat in route, one that should be much finer. I will be interested to compare them, and I will give an honest report.

Mike

[Boris Bubbanov]

I think they're fine instruments. I've never ended up with a veneered one, simply because the uniform wood like that looks too bland for me.

Totally unrealistic to imagine that the guitar is a single piece of wood, and I though most folks were good enough at ID'ing wood to know, the big field on those burst MIM Stds is not ash and it isn't alder. So what did you think it was?

I don't really appreciate people bashing an instrument and calling it trash, when they hadn't taken the time to learn what it is even made of.


Bubban0v

[ReddRanger]

I own a MIM Standard Tele and a 52RI Thin Skin Tele.

Are there tonal differences, yes. Are there quality differences, of course.

But my MIM Standard is a fun guitar to play with good tone. I dropped a set of Nocaster pups in and couldn't be happier.

People who know good tone and good gear have given me compliments on my MIM Standard, so it can't be all that bad. It's my little sleeper hot rod. :)

[Troubleman]

If all the stars align just right and it is a full moon then you can get a decent MIM Fender, too bad the odds aren't like the MIA or MIJ guitars. IMO they should have never started production anything better the Squires in Mexico, that was a good place for them.

I think the reason they switched production of all non CS RI's from japan to mexico besides the obvious 'make way more money with fee trade' reason, is that it was hard for the consumer to tell why they should pay more for the MIA model when the MIJ's were so tight. Now when you go into a music store, the salesman doesn't have to work as hard to convince you to spend all the extra money on the MIA model when the quality diference is so dramatic.


True, definitely with the normal production run stuff. I've a Vintage Player Strat (not a Classic Player Strat or a Deluxe Player Strat), that was more of a custom job - they actually paid close attention to detail. They were only available for a very short period of time, and I'm convinced its because they were better than AV62s and AV57s. Mine is essentially an AV62 with medium jumbo frets and Texas Specials that was assembled in Mexico - AV Reissue pots and switch, steel-block AV Reissue trem. LARGE difference between that guitar and any Standard, 50s, or 60s reissue. I've seen several examples of this model; all were well made, assembled, and finished. I swapped the Texas Specials for Joe Barden Strat pups - killer Strat now.
A Japanese-made, alder-bodied Strat (not a basswood fan) from the mid 80s was a pretty damned decent guitar, especially with a set of Fralin pups. I wish I hadn't parted with mine.:NUTS

jb

[peskypesky]

i think this quote might apply to guitars as well:

"Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made."
Otto von Bismarck

[SgtThump]

Blah, blah, blah... I could easily gig and please people with a regular run-of-the-mill Fender Standard Strat and a cheapo SS Fender amp. I'm quite certain that the ladies out there dancing to the standard bar cover tunes wouldn't notice and after 6-8 beers, I wouldn't either.

But feel free to focus on every little negative thing in life, instead of having fun.

Wow, I sure was bitchy back on that day. lol

[fjrabon]

newsflash. The electric guitar is not an acoustic instrument. You can't hear the difference between a 2 and 7 piece body. This is not a violin. When you play a strat, you know what you hear? You hear pickups and you hear the sound of a big cavity that's covered up by a plastic pickguard. The plastic in the pickguard makes 2938754243 times the difference in sound as whether or not you have a 2 piece or 50 piece body.

[sahhas]

i bought a super strat body from a TGPer last yr.-he couldn't remember the brand of guitar, thought it was an overseas super strat model.
i sanded down the body, it has a sandwich of 3 woods in the middle w/ a veneer of maple on the top and bottom. a friend of mine called it the "sausage guitar". but it's a decent guitar body, and sounds good, it's been my main guitar for 7 months now.
listen w/ your ears, don't judge by looks and what others say.

[Strato62]

Sigh...now I guess I have to burn my MIM Telecaster. The internets tell me its crap because it may be made of glued together wood. Too bad...I love the guitar, but a guitarist has to do the right thing.




Well, maybe not...

[gatornavy]

I don't get how people say the wood has no effect on the tone- just the electronics. If that was the case, wouldn't hollow bodies sound the same as solid bodies with the same pickups? I'm not the brightest guy out there, so if someone can explain how my thinking is wrong, please do so. I'm always open to learn something new.

[brianeharmonjr]

Just be glad you didn't see Epi bodies before they were painted up. The picture below is from a cavity in an Epi double neck posted by a forum member here.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1139/plywood2.jpg

I own guitars made in all different countries with all different kinds of construction and all numbers of plys and I love them all. If you spend less, don't expect the same or more.

[M55ikael]

So where's your picture of the wood from the US plant? I thought the Am Strats were all multi-piece too.

[radiac]

Hey, let's all go plant some trees.

[Don A]

So where's your picture of the wood from the US plant? I thought the Am Strats were all multi-piece too.

The old Am. Stds. were be multi piece with veneer.

[brianeharmonjr]

Here is a picture I took a few years back in Corona:

http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i17/brianeharmonjr/DSC00411.jpg

[monty]

I own a couple of U.S. Strats and a couple of MIM Strats.
I was choosy and am very happy with all 4, regardless of the # of pieces they are made of.

[aliensporebomb]

Blah, blah, blah... I could easily gig and please people with a regular run-of-the-mill Fender Standard Strat and a cheapo SS Fender amp. I'm quite certain that the ladies out there dancing to the standard bar cover tunes wouldn't notice and after 6-8 beers, I wouldn't either.

But feel free to focus on every little negative thing in life, instead of having fun.

You said what I was going to but shorter and better. I'd only add "if you can't gig with one of these MIM's you might as well hang it up because never has the "economical guitar dollar" purchased more than these MIM's. When I was starting out if I had one of these instead of the doghouse I had I would be a lot farther along."

[kingblud]

Just be glad you didn't see Epi bodies before they were painted up. The picture below is from a cavity in an Epi double neck posted by a forum member here.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/1139/plywood2.jpg

I own guitars made in all different countries with all different kinds of construction and all numbers of plys and I love them all. If you spend less, don't expect the same or more.

"What am I looking at?"

Seriously, what should I be recoiled by?

[DGTCrazy]

"What am I looking at?"

Seriously, what should I be recoiled by?

It's PLYWOOD!....LOL

[DGTCrazy]

newsflash. The electric guitar is not an acoustic instrument. You can't hear the difference between a 2 and 7 piece body. This is not a violin. When you play a strat, you know what you hear? You hear pickups and you hear the sound of a big cavity that's covered up by a plastic pickguard. The plastic in the pickguard makes 2938754243 times the difference in sound as whether or not you have a 2 piece or 50 piece body.

Isn't the Bridge anchored to Wood? Doesn't the transfer of energy, via string vibration, affect tone and/or sustain? And what about MIM Teles?

[direct]

If it sounds good to you then it may as well be made out of blue tack and duck tape. Isn't the most important aspect of a guitar the tone?

[bismark]

:D ...............

[BobbyRay]

If it sounds good to you then it may as well be made out of blue tack and duck tape. Isn't the most important aspect of a guitar the tone?


He's onto something here. Seriously. This is one hundred percent correct.

Thread over.

[candid_x]

Agreed!

Warning: long reply, climbing on soap box :jo

There is theory, then there is what really happens. C'mon, Multipiece-vs single. Veener cap or none. This wood vs that. Long vs sort tenons for you LP fans. Set neck vs bolt in. yada yada... The debate over which is "better" is fruitless because no ONE characteristics defines a guitar's tone. Then there's playability which is another enormous factor of whether any axe becomes a keeper. This is particularly funny to me since mannnny years ago Pine was derided as cheap, too soft, and just a poor tone wood relegated to cheesy copies mfg from asia. And now??? Hahaha :D

Sorry, but if this observation of MIM wood suddenly makes one dislike a guitar that one originally valued, then that is just shallow and shortsighted, IMHO. And give me a break here: does anyone really think Fender is ripping anyone off by using such obviously crappy wood that's not even fit for bonfire and marketing it as Custom Shop quality that's been heavily discounted? It IS what it IS.

Anyone who has had experience over the years with different guitars knows first hand that price is not the sole determinant of tone or playability; it is one factor, but by no means defines the ultimate "worth" of the instrument. That comes from experience, not by reading about it, or following the conventional wisdom that such and such sucks and you "have to get" this.

BTW, in reference to my recent threads on my own MIM project cheapie-strat, I knew full well going in what may lie underneath the finish. But before I went at stripping and building her up, I FIRST had to know that she played well and sang my tune ...otherwise, why bother, eh? Oh, and for the record, mine does have the veneer top/back with approx 4 pieces of core wood: I was prepared to hate it; ended up loving it.

Like a guitar or hate it ...whatever. But any instrument either touches you personally or not. No AAA Grade, one-piece slab of mojo wood is going to define a great guitar by default. ....Ahem, IMHO of course
:stir

Edward

Couldn'ta said it better.

Digging into the 'touches you personally' a bit more, my appreciation for a given guitar was based on my circumstances and landscape of that time. I went a whole year playing a $100 Johnson, and scraped together enough to buy back my old Laney LC50. After swapping for a set of MM Silhouette Specials (DiMarzio custom similar to True Velvet) and setting it up, it got me through, and I never thought "oh, if I only had a (fill in blank), I'd play or sound so much better." I just played, and needed to play. A high end guitar may have sucked for that time. Like when an old roommate dragged out this busted up old acoustic, handed it to me and said, there's nothing I can play on it. It was as rough as playably rough gets, but it was a blast to do some old Dylan, gospel and country on. It was the right guitar for the time. He probably couldn't fetch 20 bucks for it.



Oh, sorry, we're talking about mim boards and kinds of glue. Yup, they're there. The differences, I mean, at least the difference are obvious on mine. Each does what it does, and sometimes circumstances call for the mim.

[RedTiger]

I would have never guessed that Fender would *need* to make a guitar body out of multiple pieces of alder. I know Gibson does, but I figured that's because good mahogany was harder to find these days.

You see guys getting one piece pre-routed alder bodies. They aren't hard to come by, they aren't very expensive, and those are made without the aid of Fenders massive economies of scale. Come on, its ALDER! Isn't this supposed to be some wood Leo Fender grabbed because it was cheap and plentiful? Is it no longer cheap or plentiful?

[fjrabon]

Isn't the Bridge anchored to Wood? Doesn't the transfer of energy, via string vibration, affect tone and/or sustain? And what about MIM Teles?

that has a pretty minimal effect on the tone of the guitar and the sustain, especially with the glues used and a poly coat on top. I've never seen ANYBODY who can pick out the difference from a single piece of wood and multiple pieces on a solid color guitar.

[whaiyun]

I'm sure this is only for the Mexican Standard guitars though.... I'm sure higher end Classic Players are a lot better quality

[smallbutmighty]

I'll just say I've owned a ton of strats over the years, Americans, Customs, and Reissues, etc. I've never owned a single one that I didn't want to change something on - pickups, tuners, saddles, whatever.

Given that, I finally figured why not go cheap and then swap out the parts that I want.

Of all the strats I've owned, my favorite - hands down - is my Mexican strat. I got it used for $250. I've swapped out nearly everything but the wood to groovy custom stuff; bridge, pickups, pick guard, string trees, tuners, pots/caps, etc. Now it plays and sounds better than any other strat I've owned, everything is exactly what I want, and my total cost is about $750. Plus, I had fun doing it.

If you compare my strat to a high-end or custom shop model you will no doubt see better fret-work, wood quality, etc on the latter, and there is value in that. For me, it's not enough to off-set the huge disparity in cost. In a blind listening test I doubt even a grammy winning producer with catcher's mits for ears could tell the difference.

But that's just me.

[skyblue]

...but you were happy with the guitar for a full year and the only thing that bothered you was some extra weight. Your new knowledge isn't going to make it sound any different than it did last year.

This is the best response so far!! If you liked how your guitar sounded before you found this out, why in the world should it make any difference now? Play it and enjoy it. There's bigger problems in this world that you can focus on rather than how many pieces of wood your guitar's body is made of. Sheesh!!!

[RedTiger]

Eh...just a PSA before anything else from 2008 is quoted; this thread is from 2008! :D

[dcamp]

Thin finish, poly finish, nitro, multi piece. It is a solid body, not a Stradivarius ... Read Ron Kirn's web page, very articulate. The pickups, and amp, far out weigh the significance of the body wood. It is 90% pickups, and amp (speaker) that we hear with a solid body guitar. The aesthetics are a different story. I'll duck now...

[dividedsky]

And this comes on the heels of science concluding Strativarius violins sound so good because the rings are wonderfully even on a SINGLE piece of wood, so that they resonate perfectly. Perfect rings? With these you'd be lucky damn matches in size on these slabs of kindling.


I realize this is an old thread and may have been covered already but contrary to "popular belief" the only scientific studies that have ever been done with Stradivarius violins have concluded that there is no difference between them in their sound when compared to other high quality makers. In blind tests people can simply not distinguish between a Strad and another great violin. Of course the other great violins may have very similar acoustic properties that a Mexi Strat body doesn't but just wanted to float this out there.